Maya French was named to Forbes’ 30 under 30 in 2019 for her role in building the nation’s leading plant-based protein beverage, Koia. Today, Maya is building her next iconic brand, Happy Pop! with Koia co-founder, Dustin Baker.

After a decade of experience in food & beverage, Maya has found her voice and calling, “Building brands for happier lives in a MAD world.” Happy Pop! is just one of the brands to come out of her venture studio, MAD Projects.

In our chat, Maya shares her path from 23-year-old student to entrepreneur and what it takes to find your voice while building an industry-leading brand.

It’s been a privilege to speak with Maya, learn from her incredible experience, and share more of her story with you.

Bon Appétit! - Read Time: 10 Minutes

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Courtesy of Koia

Part I: Business

Lex: Describe your path to working in food.

Maya: My path to working in food started humbly. I started making fresh juice, which eventually pivoted to protein drinks. It came out of the need to solve for dietary restrictions I had, and I wanted to live a healthier lifestyle.

I began to see how the products my partner and I created changed people's lives. Our products helped them live healthier lives. That created a purpose for me. It’s what drove me into the food industry and what keeps me in it.

That happened very early in your life, right?

I started in the food business when I was 23 years old. I was partied out and ready to get serious. I was going to school for marketing, but I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. When I found something that I was passionate about, I went all in. I quit school early and decided to start a business - I figured that there are some things in life that you only get one opportunity to do. 

Koia was your first food and beverage brand. You started in 2013 - it has now been over a decade. What you've built is incredible.

In the last decade, what has been the toughest obstacle that you've personally had to overcome?

Being uncomfortable all the time and being a business owner forces you to grow. In a way, it's almost like when you have a child and you're forced to be an adult. It's the same thing when you're starting a business.

A lot of your flaws can leak into the business, especially how you interact with people (employees or customers). Learning myself over time, learning to overcome fear, and learning to lean into my strengths has been one of the most difficult and rewarding things over the years. It's constantly changing because you're growing at a super fast rate. You're forced to.

I recently read that one of those obstacles was finding your voice and that you've now found it. Tell us about what it feels like now to be in your third food and beverage business, in your 30s, and owning your voice.

I didn't find my voice until I received accolades. That was a pivotal point for me in 2019. Getting that recognition validated the work that I've done. Before that recognition, you’re working with your head down and never think that what you're doing is good enough. Once I received that recognition, I was more empowered to be a representative not only as a young female but as an African American female.

I don’t look like the typical person who owns a business in food and beverage.

I found importance in coaching other people and giving them a leg up in any way that I could because the food and beverage industry is very much an insider business. You only know what you know through who you know and who has done it before.

If you’re on the outside of it, it's very hard to break through those barriers. Anything that I could do to help, whether that was continuing to do podcasts, writing, or sharing my journey, I think has helped amplify my voice in many ways and helped other people conquer their goals.

What does it mean to be a woman in the food industry today?

We are often misunderstood. Our passion sometimes can be mistaken for aggression. We are incredible leaders and we have to support one another in every way that we can in a male-dominated business. We lead by uplifting one another, which teaches men to do the same. 

Being a woman in the food industry, one of the most strenuous industries, means a lot. We're all superwomen trying to change the world with one common mission.

You had a male counterpart in your first business and your current venture. How would you say that relationship has helped you grow?

Having a male counterpart is like having a close brother in business. Someone you can lean on and who makes investor meetings a little easier when you realize there are a lot of men in the world who aren't used to being in rooms with women.

It allows me to live in my feminine energy and contribute that to the business.

It also allows me to live in my masculine energy, which is beautiful. I like it. It's not like two females are going into an investor meeting trying to convince a bunch of corporate finance men to invest in the business. It's a nice gender balance.

What's a cherished highlight of your career in food?

There are so many cherished highlights of my career in food. Every time I go to an Expo West is a cherished highlight. You get to see so many amazing founders and emerging brands. You're constantly learning from one another. It's our Super Bowl. Every year I repeat that cycle, it’s the thing I look forward to the most.

Courtesy of Happy Pop!

You had a busy booth at Expo West this year with your new product, Happy Pop!, which is very delicious. I love the Rainbow Drip flavor. How did the idea for Happy Pop! come to life?

Shortly after my partner and I had exited Koia in 2021, we were anxious and wanted to come out with a beverage right away. It took a long time to get it to where we are, having it be a mood-boosting beverage. We knew we wanted something people could feel right away, that could help the world in its current state.

During the pandemic, a lot of people were unhappy. You look at the effects of social media on individuals, especially the younger generation, and everybody has FOMO. No one's ever satisfied with their current life. We wondered how we could make people feel something right away or take something right away that didn’t take too much time.

We explored cannabis at first because that's something you can feel. Given all of our research and visiting the production facilities, we noticed that a lot of people aren't doing it because there is a huge barrier to entry. It takes a lot of money to build a business and you have to wait around for regulations to change for it to work. 

We started looking at brands like Olipop and Poppi and what they're doing in soda. They're focused on gut health and high-fiber products - I can't do high-fiber products.

We looked at the growing energy category and we found a white space.

There's an opportunity there because when you have energy or anything you can feel, there are many different types of feelings that go along with it.

We wanted to create more happiness in the world. We found an ingredient that converts to dopamine in your body - mucuna powder. We figured combining that with one hundred milligrams of caffeine would give you a happy energy boost. It's a motivator and it tastes great. The formulation is amazing because we're not using any sugar alcohol, stevia, or added sugar and you feel it right away. You keep coming back for more.

I can vouch that it tastes amazing and your packaging makes me happy. Just looking at the can before I consume it brings a smile to my face. I love that it ties back to what you mentioned about Koia leaving this lasting impact on the world, first through plant-based protein and now through happy energy. 

Who are the women in food that inspire you?

Vanessa Walker has been a great mentor of mine. She used to be the head of sales and marketing for both La Croix and Celsius. I worked with Amy Cohn on Joydays. She's an incredible founder. Jordan Gaspar is a badass queen. She was a great mentor in the early days of Koia.

All the women I've met along my journey have had a certain confidence in the way they handle themselves in the industry. They do what needs to be done with a ferocity that has always been inspiring to me and helped my confidence.

I read somewhere that the qualities you admire in other people are the qualities you see in yourself. So it's great to see that those are the qualities you admire in them because those are the qualities I think we all admire in you.

PART II: Food

Describe your childhood in food.

My mother always attempted gourmet cooking, so it shaped my palate and gave me a baseline for healthy food, even though my cultural food was soul food. As I grew up and was able to eat whatever I wanted, that changed.

When they say you can live to eat or eat to live, I was living to eat. I matured and started realizing I had dietary restrictions and that I wanted to feel good.

I think a major thing with people and their relationship to food is that they don't realize they feel bad until they start to feel good. When I started to eliminate things from my diet and feel good, I started to eat to live, while also finding things I could enjoy. If I was missing certain foods that I couldn’t eat, I would create them. My relationship with food has changed over time. 

What snacks remind you of home?

Snacks I can't eat anymore! I love corn and I can't have it anymore. I can't digest it, but it reminds me so much of home because it was one of my favorite snacks growing up.

If I think about living on the South Side of Chicago, it would be candies like Fruity Chews and walking tacos, which are burrito bags with meat and cheese in them. I can't have cheese anymore either. Those are the types of snacks that are very nostalgic for me and remind me of home.

I love a walking taco. What were some of your food traditions growing up?

Every New Year my grandmother makes a seafood gumbo, which is amazing. It has all types of seafood.

Some people might be completely grossed out, but every year she makes chitterlings, which are pig intestines. There are only two people in the house that eat it, which are me and my grandfather. I like it with Louisiana hot sauce.

Those are some of the foods that are embedded into my culture because they are southern. My grandmother grew up in Paducah, Kentucky. A lot of my family came from there and brought those traditions back here.

Nowadays, I mostly eat vegetables, like greens and sweet potatoes - I have very little meat on my plate. I still love a good plate of soul food.

What is your most memorable food experience?

It’s not a great one. It’s when I got food poisoning from something and learned never to eat it in that form again. It's always the bad moments that are ingrained in your brain. The first time I got sick from corn is ingrained in my brain too.

Great food experiences would be the times I went to Mexico City and Israel - they have the best food there! My food experience in those two places have changed my life.

I can relate to food aversions. I once ate too many dolmades, which are Greek grape leaves stuffed with rice. I was six or seven and I wouldn't stop eating them. I got so sick and haven't had one since. 

How would you describe your current dining habits or rituals today?

Every day I have the same breakfast sandwich. It's an “Egg McMuffin” that I make. It's an English muffin with fig or raspberry jelly. Then, I add egg whites with prosciutto and Fly By Jing chili crisps on top. That's a staple for me.

I try not to snack throughout the day. I'll wait to have one more big meal.

I drink a ton of beverages throughout the day. I'm the beverage queen. I love to have three or four beverages at a time, half full throughout the house.

I love to go out to eat at restaurants as a way to connect with people, whether that's in groups or one-on-one. 

I’m very conscious of restaurants that use bad seed oils. My body will know and I'll never eat at that restaurant again. Sushi is a go-to and a treat for me. If I'm feeling bad or depressed, I'll order Sugarfish or KazuNori. I could eat sashimi every single day.

I love that your body can detect seed oils - most restaurants won't disclose that. Anywhere you don't eat, I won’t eat!

How do you consider and evaluate food today, whether that's choosing menu items in a restaurant or walking the aisles of a grocery store?

With my very restrictive dietary needs, it’s been helpful to learn how things are cooked. There are things restaurants won't disclose. I know that there is butter or milk in a dish because I know how it's made. That helps inform me when I'm making decisions in a restaurant.

In a grocery store, my eyes go directly to allergen statements. I'm looking at what oils are in a product and if they have any allergens. I don't like products with soy in them, so I'll stay away from those - it makes me bloated. I stay away from corn and milk ingredients. 

I always say I eat everything as long as it doesn't have the things that I can't have in it.

How do you buy your groceries? Do you shop in person or online? Is it the same groceries every week? Do you peruse the aisles?

I love to peruse the aisles for new products, but I think grocery shopping is so hard! I have to buy veggies and things that are fresh, but they can go bad before I have time to cook and eat them.

One thing that I've been doing recently is making bowls. I get the set number of ingredients for the bowls and I mix and match. It’s usually two types of greens, like kale or spinach. I'll make a base with rice or quinoa, and then I'll add beans. I'll get one or two proteins to mix and match with. I’ll add some random complimentary veggies and sauces. That helps me grocery shop because I'll put it all into a bowl, knowing it's nutritious. 

I’ll go to Erewhon for specialty items like snacks. Whole Foods has great sauces and random things that I like. Trader Joe's is a great place for me to get everything on a budget.

What was your last great food adventure?

Last February I went to Mexico to learn about regenerative agriculture and sustainability in the food movement down there. I did a tour of Chiapas and learned about their biodiverse farmlands. I learned more about organic food and the diversity of plant species. That was eye-opening for me, and delicious! 

You're the first person to respond to that question with a learning experience!

What's a food people would be surprised you love?

I think it’s pie.

I'm not a huge sweet eater, but I like pies and soft cookies. Those are the only types of sweets I like, but again, they can’t have milk. Very often I can find apple pies without any dairy ingredients. Those are my guilty pleasures.

I also like a good soft bread. I'm really big on bread textures - something that's crispy on the outside and soft on the inside.

This issue of Salt & Main is brought to you by LEXINGTON BAKES

Part III: Dessert

This interview continues with rapid-fire questions on TikTok and Instagram. Follow @SaltAndMain on TikTok and @SaltAndMain on Instagram and don’t miss the rest of the conversation including Maya’s favorite Koia flavor, vegan ice cream, what makes the best potato chip, the perfect sandwich, best travel snack, and more.

Connect with Maya & Happy Pop!

• Follow: @mayajfrench on IG

• Follow: @drinkhappypop on IG

• Shop: HappyPop!

If you enjoyed this interview, please help us grow by forwarding to a friend who might enjoy it too. 🫶

Rachel Simons is CEO and one of three women co-founders of Seed+Mill, a NYC-based sesame brand famous for their Tahini and Halva products. What started as a small kiosk in Chelsea Market in 2016 has blossomed into a national brand featured in grocery chains, specialty shops, restaurant menus, and more.

Seed+Mill is the first brand I think of when anyone mentions Tahini or Halva. I lived in NYC before moving to LA in 2020, so I was well aware of this incredible startup in Chelsea Market when it opened. It brings me great joy and pride as a New Yorker to see how far Seed+Mill has come.

Rachel and I first connected earlier this year when I reached out to collaborate with Seed+Mill for LEXINGTON BAKES’s first vegan cookie, which is, of course, tahini-based. I was immediately overwhelmed by Rachel’s kindness and welcoming personality and her generous openness to partner with a small brand. She is a founder who lives her brand’s ethos to “inspire the community to explore the world through food.”

I’m honored to share Rachel’s path from corporate lawyer in Sydney to Sesame Brand founder in NYC and now cookbook author.

Bon Appétit! - Read Time: 15 Minutes

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Photos courtesy of Seed+Mill

Part I: Business

Lex: Describe your path to working in food.

Rachel: It was one big happy accident.

I started my career as a corporate lawyer and I worked in law for 20 years. While I was working as a lawyer, I would travel, which was my passion, and I would cook, which was my other passion.

I have traveled a lot and lived in many countries. My happy spot when traveling is visiting a grocery store or eating in a local restaurant. I love immersing myself in a local environment from a food perspective. That was always what motivated me around food.

I've traveled and met a lot of people along the way. I ended up moving to New York in 2014 because my husband had a career opportunity here. My kids were six and eight and I wanted a break. I thought I would eventually sit for the New York bar exams or do something else, whatever that may be. But if I'm being honest, I thought it would be a one or two-year trip to New York and then I thought we would move back to Sydney. 

When I moved to New York, I fell in love with the city.

We've been here for 10 years and I love living here. I ended up meeting a couple of other women and we were all between careers. One of them was a lawyer as well and the other one had been a marketing executive. The three of us got together and we traveled to similar places in the world and were all called to do something entrepreneurial in food.

One of the things we all had in common was that we all had lived in the Middle East. We were passionate about Middle Eastern food and cooking with ingredients like tahini which is one of Seed+Mill’s most important products.

When we got together, I honestly thought I would start a shop or a little business and sell some tahini, then I'd go back to Australia and continue my career in law. One thing led to another and the business grew. My kids were happy here.

Eight years later, I'm still in the food industry.

I love it when businesses bloom organically like this because the focus is wholly on the product.

How has life changed since owning a food shop?

Working for another person or company is extremely different from an entrepreneurial experience. It's been incredibly rewarding. That feeling of building something, whether it's a good day or a bad day, I know I'm always building; I'm building something and I'm wearing many, many hats. 

It means that I'm on call 24/7.

I don't think I've taken a day off where I haven’t looked at a laptop or a phone in eight years. When you run your own business, even when you go on holiday, it's hard to switch off. Working for yourself versus working for someone else is a mindset shift. It can be very demanding on myself and my family.

What has been the most shocking part of your food journey?

There's been a lot that shocks me, like grocery stores.

Before I worked in the food industry, I would see all the things on the shelf and see pretty packaging or good marketing or a delicious product and that's all I would see. When I go into a grocery store now, I have an immense appreciation for what goes into getting that product on the shelf.

Now when I see a pint of ice cream, I think, where was the milk grown? How was the milk produced? How did that get to the ice cream factory? Who designed that package? How did the package get on the shelf? Was there a distributor? Was there a merchandiser? How are they marketing? What discounts are they doing?

It is extraordinary how many things go into getting something on that shelf. I'll never look at a jar of peanut butter the same way. 

Getting on the shelf is only one part of it. The next part is getting it off the shelf - how do you convince people to purchase your product, repurchase your product, give you feedback, and recommend the product to their friends? It's getting into the store and then getting out of the store.

It's a world of work I had no idea existed.

Knowing everything you know about retail now, would you do it again?

Without a doubt, I would do it again. Not only do I like building things, but I like learning. I also don't want to live with a sense of regret. I think for most of us,  it's worth giving it a shot. Just go into any process of building in retail with your eyes wide open. Make sure you have good mentors or a good advisor who will tell you or help you understand everything.

I would regret not having given this a try.

It's been really interesting - you learn a lot and you meet a lot of great people. If it doesn't work, you can apply your learnings to your next business. You might choose to get out of the food business, but at least you won’t wonder what it would have been like. 

I love what you said about using your intuition. That’s what's exciting about the food world - it's not a cut-and-dry formula, like a recipe. Everyone has their unique path to landing in food, and still, it's a shared experience. We all somehow land in food at some point in our lives.

Food is the most universal way to communicate and to show love. I'm writing a cookbook and I say a lot in the book that I show love and care for someone by feeding them or having them in my home. It doesn't matter what the recipe is or how good the food is - it's how that person feels when you make the effort to feed them. 

On the way to this conversation, I happened to pass by people yelling at each other in front of my store.

I looked at the person next to me who was a bit upset and I said, “Hey, what's your name?” She said her name was Marina and I heard she had an accent. I asked her where she was from, and she said she was Ukrainian. I told her I've got a store in Chelsea market and invited her to have an ice cream together.

She walked back with me to my store and I gave her an ice cream. We had a five-minute conversation and she left.

I love the way you can have a quick ice cream with a stranger. Food bonds people - that's what I love about our industry.

It's a small gesture with a massive payout. It's a tiny little thing that does so much good for the world.

As a Ukrainian, she knew what we sold. That is one of my biggest business challenges -  a lot of people don't know what halva or tahini is or what it's made from. As an Eastern European, she had grown up eating halva, so she was even more excited that I was selling something that felt nostalgic to her.

Photos courtesy of Seed+Mill

Tell me about going from storefront to CPG and now, a cookbook.

I wouldn't say it was a very strategic decision. We started as a retail store. Our e-commerce channel started because we got a call from the New York Times.

They said they were writing an article about halva and they had looked at our website. They asked if we were able to add e-commerce capability because if we were written up in the Times, people might want to try our product. I asked when the article would be published and they said in two weeks. 

I hired my co-founder’s 17-year-old neighbor to build our website. It went live at midnight before the article came out. That was how we ended up starting a direct-to-consumer channel.

Our wholesale or CPG channel started because Whole Foods approached us early on and said they were interested in what we were making because they saw an opportunity in the market for a clean-label halva.

All of the brands available in a CPG format included ingredients that weren't acceptable to Whole Foods. They were looking for what we sold. We were lucky in that respect - that channel came to us. 

When we started, I honestly had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know what a distributor was. I didn't know what a UPC (barcode) was and I didn't know how to build the package for CPG versus retail / in-store. All of those decisions weren’t decisions - they were opportunities that came to us.

I was just eager to learn. I can wholeheartedly tell you that I have made every single mistake in the book. We've grown slowly and carefully - I'm very careful. I heard a lot of horror stories from other brands who said yes to accounts that were too big for them too soon. 

I've had to fight my urge to say yes to everything. When Whole Foods rang I said yes, but then other people started to ring. That's all great but if you don't have the cash flow, team, or manufacturing capacity, you'll go backward quickly if you keep saying yes. It's been a push-and-pull. 

So many people are excited to say yes to everything without realizing it could destroy your business. Even if a retailer says there’s demand, it’s up to you to do your research before you take a risk on that account.

Absolutely - it's more my risk than theirs. In almost every case a retailer will expect a free fill, ask for my product for free to see if it works, so the risk is all mine. They won't reorder or keep me on the shelf for very long if it doesn’t sell. If I say yes and support the free fill and it doesn't go anywhere I'm completely out of pocket. 

I will only say yes to a retailer where I honestly believe that there is a market and a consumer for our type of product.

You know that fable of the hare and the tortoise - I feel like the tortoise.

Sometimes, I look at everybody else moving a lot faster than us and that can be frustrating. I'm not trying to win a race - I just want to keep moving.

I feel the same way.

So your cookbook, that’s new news! How did that come about?

Writing a cookbook has been a bucket list task.

Reading a cookbook is like reading a novel and I've always collected them. I read them cover-to-cover. I appreciated the headnotes to a recipe and the background of the author. I like reading the acknowledgment section of a cookbook because I'm fascinated by the process and who was involved.

I got a call four or five years ago from a publisher who was interested in writing the book. I was nervous about having enough variety to write a cookbook all about sesame seeds. To find 80 different ways to use sesame felt daunting. That was my first fear.

My second fear was about being the right person to write a book about sesame. I'm not a trained chef. Am I enough of an authority? I'm a home cook who fell into the sesame business eight years ago. I had a lot of self-doubt about my right to write the book. 

The thing that pushed me to write it was deciding I didn't want it to be a book solely of my recipes. I wrote about 70 of the recipes but collaborated with 10-12 other chefs, home cooks, and foodies on recipes that included sesame seeds from different regions, cultures, and religions. These contributors helped me globalize sesame seeds.

I've worked with a Vietnamese chef, an Indonesian chef, a Taiwanese chef, a Japanese chef, an Eastern European chef, and an Indian chef. I've globalized the process and the book. It comes out in March 2025. 

We’re finishing the photo shoot and manuscript right now. I've loved every second of writing this book. When it comes out, I know I will feel proud of having gone through this process. 

It sounds truly special. Congratulations! I’ll be eagerly waiting to buy my copy when it comes out.

Photos courtesy of Seed+Mill

PART II: Food

Describe your childhood in food.

My childhood was dominated by food. I was the kid who pulled out every item in the pantry trying to concoct my own recipes. That’s what I did for fun with my friends. I have memories of being seven-years-old and pulling out butter and flour to try and bake a cake. I was too young to follow a recipe. 

My grandmother was a phenomenal cook. We didn't eat out often as kids. I don't think I ate at a restaurant until I was 18. I lived in a household where my family cooked. I never went to culinary school and my mom didn’t follow recipes. One of the challenges of writing my book was that I learned to cook through observation and intuition. I worked as a teenager and through college in restaurants.

I've probably worked in five restaurants over eight years as a waitress. I was always the waitress who was far more interested in being in the kitchen. I watched the chefs cook and would mentally take notes of what they were doing so I could replicate it when I got home.

What snacks remind you of home?

I grew up in Australia, then moved to Tel Aviv when I was 18. I moved to London when I was 24. Then I moved to Hong Kong when I was 30, and to New York when I was 39, which is where I am now.

My grandparents were in Zimbabwe and I spent most of my summers visiting them there or my family in Argentina. I traveled a lot throughout my life and I struggle to say where home is. I grew up from zero to 18 in Sydney.

So what reminds me of Sydney? Fantastic coffee. I've always loved coffee beans – I used to chew on chocolate-covered coffee beans as a young teenager. 

What were some of your food traditions growing up around the world?

For me, tradition implies a ritual and I'm Jewish so we've always had a Friday night Sabbath dinner. On Friday nights, we've always had challah.

We would start with chicken soup and then we would have a main course and a dessert. It was always a proper meal that would differ from the rest of the week which was quick and easy.

We always had guests around our table. There was never a Friday night where our home wasn't filled with guests and visitors - my mum would cook up a storm. If there were 20 people invited, there would be food for 50. 

I met my husband who is not Jewish and grew up on a farm in the middle of Australia where he had a different mindset around food and food scarcity. His family didn't have money for a lot of food. Every meal was something that they had to fight for. 

I remember he was shocked at how much food there was at our table.

When we first got together, he would get annoyed and say “You cook too much. There's too much food”. I'd say leftovers are the best. I started a tradition where we had a huge meal on Friday night and leftovers on Saturday.

That’s similar to my upbringing - an abundance of food and inviting everyone over to enjoy it.

What is your most memorable food experience?

Starting Seed+Mill is a very memorable experience, and it will forever feel that way. Even thought it will only represent one chapter of my life, I have to acknowledge how important this entire chapter has been. 

When I think about memorable food experiences, I come back to family and people that I love or people that I miss. I will forever think about my dad who loved food. He passed away a couple of years ago and I often think about some of the last meals that I had with him.

This might be bit too much, I don't want to get too emotional here but…

The last meal I had with my dad—it's not as though he was sick, he died really suddenly so it wasn't as though I could anticipate him passing—but I had made a big effort to cook him an amazing meal.

I had just randomly cooked his favorite dinner and his favorite dessert and it was definitely one of those overly abundant meals. Maybe I killed him with too much cholesterol! I shouldn't joke about that but grief is one of those things that you sometimes have to laugh at so you don't cry.

I remember that meal, I remember what I made for him, and I remember him enjoying it. It's a beautiful memory and I miss him a lot.

That's a beautiful memory. My goal is to show how food impacts all parts of our lives, so it’s never too much to share.

While I'm thinking about food memories, I'll just add that my dad was not the cook in our family. When I was growing up, my mom was always the one in the kitchen. I was in my mid-twenties when my parents got divorced and my dad ended up living alone for a long time.

He had to learn to cook and provide for himself. I was so proud of the way he embraced his cooking skills as a 70-year-old man. He loved it. He ended up becoming a really good cook. He taught my kids how to cook. When they were young, I would leave them with him and they would make brownies or cookies.

He loved spending time with them in the kitchen. It ended up being a beautiful bonding moment between a grandfather and his grandkids.

My passion for dessert comes from my grandma. Dessert was never a special occasion, it was an all the time thing. She grew up in a village in Greece, so she made everything from scratch.

How do you consider and evaluate new food as you're walking down the grocery aisles or look at a restaurant menu?

I'm drawn to fresh things. Because I like to cook, I'm always drawn to fresh produce or an ingredient where I can make something myself as opposed to a finished product. For example, I never buy frozen pizza. I don't even look at it. I'm mindful of what goes into everything. I'll evaluate a new product based on its ingredients. 

I'm one of those annoying customers who will pick up a product in a grocery store because it looks pretty, but if I turn it around and see too many ingredients that I don't recognize, I put it back down. 

I don't evaluate a restaurant menu. If it's on a menu and there's a chef who's made it, I'm going to try it. I trust that they know what they're doing and if they don't then I won’t go back to that restaurant. I like to trust and I'm pretty adventurous. I love to try different foods and new restaurants. I like to discover a restaurant off-the-beaten-path that might not be on a list.

If you're putting it on the menu and it looks great, I'm going to give it a chance at least once.

That’s a lovely way of looking at a menu. That’s going to stick with me.

What was your last great food adventure?

I took the Seed+Mill team away for an adventure up to Kingston, which is a couple of hours north of New York City. We wanted to do an activity together.

We took a ravioli-making class with a lovely woman called Rebecca French. We made ravioli with dried edible flowers. We were laminating them into the ravioli pasta and then we filled it with a mixture of different fillings.

It was such a wonderful experience to do that with the team. We all sat down and ate dinner together. I highly recommend it to anyone who has a team and is looking for a fun afternoon out.

This issue of Salt & Main is brought to you by

LEXINGTON BAKES Luxury Brownies & Cookies

Part III: Dessert

This interview continues with rapid-fire questions on TikTok and Instagram. Follow @SaltAndMain on TikTok and @SaltAndMain on Instagram and don’t miss the rest of the conversation including Rachel’s favorite ice cream flavor and toppings, fav daily beverage, best international snacks, favorite NYC restaurant, what recent food she disliked and more.

Connect with Rachel

• Follow: @SeedandMill

• Shop: Seed+Mill.com

• Visit: Seed+Mill at Chelsea Market NYC

• Connect: Rachel on LI

If you enjoyed this interview, please help us grow by forwarding to a friend who might enjoy it too. 🫶

I met Kirsten last year on Twitter or Instagram, or was it LinkedIn? We finally met in person at Expo West this year, and it felt like we’d been friends forever. We immediately bonded over founder life and food development.

Kirsten has an incredible career in food spanning 15+ years working with iconic brands like Ben & Jerry’s and P.F. Chang’s. She spent four years building her brand, Doozy Pots, an award-winning plant-based gelato company, from the ground up with a team of two.

When we finally recorded this interview a few months ago (we’ve established I’m a bit behind in publishing these interviews, right?), it was impossible to stay on track and not spend hours talking about everything like we were besties. 

I’m so excited to share with you Kirsten’s background, from growing up all around food, from family restaurants to living near the Ben & Jerry’s Vermont factory as a kid (an epic childhood in my mind), to her career path from Cornell to Unilever to London to Doozy Pots and more.

A recent update since we recorded this interview! Kirsten has joined the SkinnyDipped team as Director of R&D and Innovation. Congrats!! 🎉

Bon Appétit! - Read Time: 15 Minutes

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Part I: Business

Lex: Describe your path to working in food.

Kirsten: My path to working in food started when I was born. My parents had a restaurant, a bakery, and a catering business. The week I was born my parents were doing a big dinner for the cast of a soap opera or something.

The night before the dinner, I was born, so my mom couldn't go. I was thrust into it and in the kitchen from a young age. We were at my grandparents or the restaurant and sitting at a table peeling kiwis and carrots.

I also read that you grew up not too far away from an ice cream factory.

When I was five we moved from Long Island to Waterbury, Vermont, which is the home of Ben & Jerry's; I grew up down the road, so ice cream was always a big part of my life.

I remember being a little kid and going on the factory tour, seeing them chop open the big pints using a massive knife to see what was inside. I was like, that looks like a cool job. I want to do that.

Growing up in a town of 4,000 people, you don't have much to do, but you could go on the Ben & Jerry's tour for free. So we would walk there in the summer, my girlfriends and I, and we would go on the tour repeatedly.

They would ask questions on the tour and you would win prizes. If you went on it three or four times in a day, you knew the answers to get the prizes. I ended up working there for a long time. So I'm not only an ice cream nerd, but I also have a lot of old-school Ben and Jerry's trivia and history. 

I realized I could study food science and not have to live the restaurant life to work in food, which is not a great lifestyle. I also realized I could play with food and have a semi-normal nine-to-five.

And that turned into a 15-year career in ice cream, food and beverage, R&D, and food science. Tell me more.

I graduated in 2008 from Cornell.

Growing up in Vermont, I always wanted to work for a natural brand. It was the spring of 2008 and the economy was crashing and banks were failing, so any job would be a good job. I got a job with Unilever, thinking I'd be there a year, and ended up staying there for almost 10 years.

For the last six years, I’ve been with Innocent Drinks, launched my own brand, and done six years of product development consulting with other brands.

Very few people are fortunate enough to know what they want to do so early in life.

What has been your most cherished highlight of working in food?

Oh man, there have been so many good ones. As a product developer, knowing how long things take to get to market, the feeling of going into a grocery store and seeing your product on the shelf never gets old.

I've seen products that I've made in freezers and fridges across the world, which is really cool to see.

But having my own brand where there were two people doing the work of 40 people or more and seeing our brand’s Doozy Pots in the freezer next to Ben and Jerry's was a peak moment; to be able to see projects that have basically spanned the last 10 years sold together was a really proud moment.

What has been the toughest obstacle you've had to overcome, whether that's in your professional career or as a brand founder?

In the last 15 years, the most challenging piece was being a founder and starting a business six months before COVID-19 happened. I think starting a brand, you'll always have to literally roll with the punches because the punches come every day. But that felt especially hard.

However, it was just my husband and I, and we were stuck in our house and building a business; I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was so much fun, but it was also very lonely. Entrepreneurship, as you know, is a lonely journey. Stick yourself in the house and you can't go anywhere - you couldn't travel or see friends or family. And then you're just in this endless loop of loneliness. 

That was definitely really hard because those moments where you could connect with people or go to expo or IFT and meet a supplier in real life, all of that was taken away. And that felt like it compounded the challenges of loneliness of entrepreneurship.

It's not for the faint of heart.

What is the best thing to come out of your career in food?

This is going to sound silly, but meeting my husband.

He didn't work in food, but at the end of 2013, I got an opportunity to go to the UK to work to develop the Ben & Jerry's vegan product at the Ice Cream Technical Development Center in the UK.

At the time I had been looking at roles outside of Ben and Jerry's, then this opportunity came up. Within the same week of receiving this offer to go to the UK, another offer came. Had the timing been one week off, I would have given my notice and not moved to the UK.

I met Carl through one of my best friends from growing up and it felt like one of those life-changing moments. Had I made decisions differently or a meeting was two weeks later, none of this would have happened.

That all led to opportunities to work in Europe two different times, to work with different global teams, and to meet my husband who I started a business with.

That was a flashpoint in my life and career that led to a lot of really great fun work and life opportunities.

That's quite serendipitous.

What's your most challenging formula to develop?

Surprisingly, it was the first project I ever worked on, which was developing frozen P.F. Chang's meals. At the time Unilever owned the Bertolli frozen meal line and we worked with the P.F. Chang's culinary team. Those are still on the market. I saw them in Target recently and I was like, this is really cool to see. 

But I had started my role and they said “Here develop these products” and I was like, oh, what do I do? That was probably the most surprising because P.F. Chang's sauces have a lot of salt and sugar in them.

Salt and sugar don't want to freeze. So there was a lot of opportunity to make very messy products. There was a lot of technical learning. That was a really fun and surprising project to work on because I never pictured myself working on frozen dinners since I came out of a family of restaurant and food people.

What's a dream product that is just not feasible to bring to market?

I get a lot of people who ask me to make things. In the ice cream space, there are people who want no sugar, super high protein, really creamy, really indulgent ice cream. My line is, “I'm a scientist - not a magician.”

There are certain laws of physics that I cannot bend. Everybody wants that silver bullet product that is super indulgent and delightful and has no consequences.

Those are polar opposites - I'd say that's the biggest challenge and hurdle. 

We're getting there with some things but ice cream is a treat. 

My motto is that you can't cheat on dessert.
You can't cheat death and you can't cheat dessert.

Or taxes.

Yeah, that too.

What does it mean to be a woman in the food business today?

When I started, I worked on very male-dominated teams. R&D was a good old boys club. I roll in as a 21-year-old fresh out of college.

It’s a balance—letting people know that you know what you're doing and that you're capable of the softness that's expected.

I've worked with some really amazing women in the food industry.

Interestingly, most of the teams that I’ve worked on in Europe were all women, which was great. I love to see women in the technical field, on the production floor, in the lab, and in the kitchen. It’s great to see because we're opening up a space that has traditionally been male-dominated. We're really owning it now. Women have an innate understanding of caring for and feeding people, so having women-founded brands that align with what's on the family's table or what you're having for snacks is great.

I love seeing so many fresh female founders pioneering the space.

Who are some of the women in food that inspire you?

There are so many. Watching Jeni build Jeni’s Ice Cream brand over the last 15 years has been amazing. I've worked with some really fantastic founders, both in the US and the UK. Amanda Klain from Yasso, both her and Drew. Amanda is a fantastic leader.

PART II: Food

Describe your childhood in food.

My parents were both children of relatively large Catholic families. My dad was one of six and my mom was one of four. My mom's half is Sicilian, so my grandma was always making sauce and spaghetti and meatballs and there were always a lot of people around.

My grandma cooked en masse for people on my dad's side, but utilitarian Americana food - I'm talking pork chops with applesauce and mashed potatoes or meatloaf and stuff like that. 

On the flip side, I spent a lot of time in restaurants, both working in them and sitting in them as a kid. We moved to Vermont because my dad started working for Cabot Cheese in innovation, so I was going into factories at a young age and seeing R&D labs. I don't think there was anything else I really paid attention to. 

When my parents moved out of their house a couple of years ago, I was going through a shoebox full of pictures. I found a series of photos of food that I plated that I took with my camera, the kind you would bring the film in to get printed. Pictures of roast chicken, caprese salad, pasta - those were staples in my house all the time.

My dad would make us cook on the weekends in the morning. My brother and I would make French toast or pancakes because he said he cooked all week. He said, “you guys make breakfast for us”. So my whole life has been food.

What snacks remind you of home?

Cheddar cheese with Macintosh apples. I grew up in Vermont and that always used to be packed in my lunch and it was such a good snack combo.

Tate's chocolate chip cookies too. My mom grew up on the east end of Long Island and Tate's has been around since the 80s. It was just a small little company about 10 years ago—she's another one who built an amazing brand.

I'm a chewy chocolate chip cookie girl, but those crispy cookies! We would stop at the bakery and bring stuff to the beach. Just the taste of a Tate's chocolate chip cookie reminds me of summertime at the beach.

I love Tate's cookies and I normally hate crunchy cookies. It's its own category.

What were some of your food traditions growing up?

Spaghetti and meatballs with my mom. That was like a classic every time we went to Grandma Betty's house.

Baking with my other grandma and my grandpa - they loved to make bread (like zucchini bread) and they would also make homemade wheat bread and ice cream.

I ate so much Ben & Jerry's ice cream as a kid. Cherry Garcia, chocolate mint cookie. It reminds me so much of childhood and home and growing up in Vermont with my family.

I think Cherry Garcia is the ultimate flavor to associate with Ben and Jerry's.

Yeah, and I'm totally a classics person. Their new flavors are fun, but I want to share Garcia, Chunky Monkey, and Cookie Dough - iconic.

What's your most memorable food experience?

When Carl and I travel, it's mostly around food, like going to restaurants.

It's a good way to travel.

It’s hard to pick one because there are so many good ones.

There’s Osteria Francescana by Massimo Bottura in Modena, Italy. They have a small dining room so you can do the full tasting menu which is amazing. However, you go for the breakfast.

They also have a snack fridge that's filled with baked goods and treats from the garden and mini pots with freshly picked vegetable salads in them. If you can teleport me anywhere I would go have breakfast and sit in the garden there and have snack time because there are so many goodies. 

The breakfast there is unreal.  Last summer we went and spent two nights there. We pretty much went for the breakfast.

I would love that.

10 out of 10 recommend.

Describe your current dining habits or rituals.

This is so funny. My Instagram handle used to be Rituals of the Kitchen because there's a Ruth Reichl quote—she didn't cook for herself. She cooked because she was comforted by the rituals of the kitchen.

I want to have a podcast where I interview food people and ask them about their rituals because it's a very foodie thing—I don't, really. I love cooking for other people, but I really cook for my own mental well-being and peace of mind.

I travel a lot, which messes up some of those habits, but nothing makes me happier than going to our local North Union farmers market, filling up bags with local produce and local goodies, and then coming home and stocking the fridge and cooking what we would call a Sunday supper with family and sitting down and sharing a good meal.

I cook from scratch a lot but I've started to try and meal prep more. I realize it's very hard to cook two to three meals a day every day while also trying to run a business.

And I love to grill. 

What's your favorite thing to grill?

Grilled veggies—cutting sweet potatoes the long way, putting a little bit of oil on them and grilling them like they're a piece of chicken. There's a Nobu miso dressing recipe that they put on asparagus, but I'll make a maple miso dressing and then just baste it on all of the grilled veg.

YES TO ALL OF THAT!

Asparagus, sweet potatoes, zucchini, squash, mushrooms - I'll grill everything. I’ve grilled cabbage - quarter a cabbage, baste it with some oil, and then grill that like you would a big piece of meat and put chimichurri on it.

That’s my go-to.

How do you consider and evaluate new food today?

Every single bite I take and every single purchase I make I want to know more about nutrition and sourcing.

I think we're in a phase where if you have the good fortune to shop with the mindset of “Can my purchase make a difference? Am I supporting a supply chain that has some rigor behind it?” There are a lot of dirty avenues in food. Not everybody has the good fortune to shop that way.

But doing your research and figuring out where your food comes from is paramount. Also, from a nutrition standpoint, we are in an era where there's too much sugar.

There are way too many calories for people. I'm not saying that sugar is bad. I indulge in food all the time and I love it, but that can't be the only food that everyone's eating from breakfast till dinner. I could go on a whole other tangent about the food system, but that's another chat.

I love that you mentioned how your purchase impacts the rest of the supply chain or the world. It's what I built my business on. Every purchase of LEXINGTON BAKES supports good companies. We're sourcing organic and fair trade from B Corp certified or companies with strong ESG programs.

And that's what we tried to do with Doozy Pots—organic and regenerative.

I'm sure you know—sugar, cocoa, vanilla—they are pretty dirty industries! You start to look under the hood and it's like, oh, that’s not a supply chain I want to support.

Yes, fair trade all the way.

How do you buy your groceries—in person, online once a week, a couple of times a week, different stores, the same store?

I could never buy my groceries online—I have to go to the store.

I will order pantry basics from Thrive. Other than that, I go to the store and I flip-flop between Heinen's (Cleveland’s beautiful local grocery store) and Whole Foods. I go back and forth.

I probably shop twice a week. I am not very good at planning my meals. I usually don't know what I want for dinner until it's past dinner time and I'm like, oh my god, what am I going to want for dinner? Sometimes it's 4 pm and I feel like making a specific thing. But of course, I have nothing to make it with.

That’s why I’m very much an in-person shopper. When it's not wintertime, I go to the Saturday farmers market for all my produce and stuff like that.

I pop into my Whole Foods like four times a week. It’s not efficient, but it's somewhere to go. As a founder working from home, I'm home all day.

I went the other day and it was sunny for once. It was really nice. I just need to go walk around and clear my head. It's my safe space.

What is a food people would be surprised that you love?

I don't know if I have a good answer for that, but I can tell you a food that people are surprised that I seriously detest is cottage cheese.

I have a visceral hate for cottage cheese and people are like, wow, you're worked up about cottage cheese. What really gets me going is people who put cottage cheese in a blender with three strawberries and a drizzle of honey and stick it in their freezer and say “This is ice cream”. That is not ice cream. I have a violent reaction to that.

Same. I've actually never tried cottage cheese. I'm averse to the name and the texture and all of it. It’s just not for me—call it something else, please. 

It’s so gross—the clumpiness. I can remember trying it as a kid. A neighbor made lasagna and used cottage cheese. I don't like lasagna and that might be why.

That would make me hate lasagna too.

People might also be surprised that I do not like lasagna.

Okay, we have to get you some good lasagna.

What was your last great food adventure?

In January I got to work with a client who has some ice cream shops in Rome.

I spent a couple of days making gelato in Rome followed by three days at SIGEP, which is the world's dolce expo.

Is it a popular ice cream chain?

Yeah, so they're based in Argentina. They're called Lucciano’s…

STOP! I love them so much! I was in Rome in August and normally I go to Venchi, but I popped into Lucciano’s and was like, “Is this heaven?”

I can't believe you worked with them. Consider me a starstruck.

That was a good food adventure.

This issue of Salt&Main is brought to you by

LEXINGTON BAKES Luxury Brownies & Cookies

Part III: Dessert

This interview continues with rapid-fire questions on TikTok and Instagram. Follow @SaltAndMain on TikTok and @SaltAndMain on Instagram and don’t miss the rest of the conversation including Kirsten’s favorite dessert spots, pastries, ice cream, travel snacks, which food she recently disliked and more.

Connect with Kirsten

• Follow: Kirsten on LinkedIn

• Follow: Kirsten on IG

If you enjoyed this interview, please help us grow by forwarding to a friend who might enjoy it too. 🫶

Jennifer Stojkovic is a food-tech leader, founder of Vegan Women Summit (VWS), author of the bestselling book The Future of Food is Female, and General Partner at Joyful Ventures.

In the first part of our conversation, we discuss her path from public charity work to tech, and how becoming a bestselling author merged her remarkable career in tech with her passion for improving the future of food and how we eat. And how that set the stage for her to launch Vegan Women Summit and Joyful Ventures.

In part two, we talk hot dog casserole, daily eating habits, food feelings, and where to find the best deals for natural and organic food.

When you're finished reading, don't forget dessert. The conversation continues on our social channels with rapid-fire questions about the foods Jennifer loves (and doesn't love) and other fun food questions.

Bon Appétit! - Read Time: 15 Minutes

If you’re reading this email in gmail it might get clipped! You can always view full issues here.

Part I: Business

Lex: Describe your path to working in food.

Jenny: My path to working in food was extremely atypical. I had absolutely no food experience. 

Scratch that. I had a little experience but a completely unrelated path.

My first career out of college was public charity. When I entered the working world and moved to America at 21, I oversaw grant programs at the United Way and administered several million dollars a year to charitable programs. More than half of our programs were food assistance.

My first experience working in food was with food banks. We supplied children's lunches, national school lunch programs, and food stamps. We also served free and reduced-price lunch kits.

Then, I moved to San Francisco and became a Silicon Valley lobbyist, completely changing my career path to a totally new world. For half a decade, I worked for a man named Ron Conway, the godfather of Silicon Valley. I was able to build a really exciting and interesting career there, working with Google, Facebook, and all the top tech giants. But privately, I had a personal passion for food and changing how we eat.

In 2018, I started to see innovation intersect with food.

That's when you started hearing a lot about the Impossible Burger, Just and the concept of cultivated meat. And so, that was really my segue into, hey, how can I take what I do for a living and move it towards something I am more passionate about? That's where I got the impetus to create my first platform, Vegan Women Summit (VWS).

The goal was to inspire women to participate in changing the way we eat. We started with 250 women in a room. We now have over 100,000 women professionals across six continents, including about 20% male professionals. As a result, we've become the biggest food innovation summit in the world.

I'm finding a way to marry what I do in the tech industry and bring that spirit of innovation to the way we eat.

You said 100,000 people, that's over 50% growth, from what I read, was 40,000 women worldwide last year.

That's about a year and a half old, but yes, we have now more than 100,000.

We held our first conference, and the lockdown happened a month later. So, 2020, yay. The virtual platform allowed us to connect with many more professionals. It was also a time when, to be totally frank, we had so many people reaching out every single day saying, "I'm sitting at a computer all day," "I'm worried about the fate of the world," "I've got my baby over here," "Why am I a cog at Meta?" "What can I do to do something more inspiring."

That was a big reason why our growth accelerated so much. Men and women from all over the world came to us and said, “I want to do something that's actually going to help the planet and help my kids.”

So many millennials are now reaching that professional level where you are close to a midlife crisis. And we have many midlife crises headed our way.

So, for better or for worse, we grew quite a lot.

I feel that. I love how you made that change happen. I also had no experience with food before switching into it, but now I love it so much.

I feel food has the most potential for individuals to impact the world. We eat every day and multiple times throughout the day.

How do you see your role impacting what people eat?

Well, that is a very big question, depending on which hat I'm wearing for the day and what my hair looks like.

I work really hard on thought leadership around moving towards what I consider to be sustainable protein. Moving away from industrialized animal agriculture—I think we can all agree that anywhere from 15 to 20%, depending on whose classifications you're using, will be impacted by animal agriculture. 

So if you want to make a difference, I think we need to have strong thought leadership there. We do a conference on it. I do tons of media and write lots of articles on it. I also wrote a book, The Future of Food is Female.

It's the first book about women changing the food system. It became a number-one bestseller last summer, which was very exciting.

And I also launched a fund to invest in the next generation of food products, Joyful Ventures.

It depends. I'm trying to tackle this from all angles.

Congrats on becoming a number-one bestselling author.
How has your life changed in the last two years since it came out?

I've built my career using a multi-prong approach. I knew I wanted to be a published author, an entrepreneur, and a venture capitalist.

The book served as a way to solidify my authority in this space.

Not having a traditional background in food, it was really important to show some legitimacy and validation.

I've spent these last few years on the ground, learning as much as I can. I don't have a formal education, background, or training in food. Writing the book was my way of establishing authority, particularly regarding the future of food.

It's such an early space, so you have to be at the forefront of it. There's not much to catch up on because it's evolving daily.

What would you say is the most cherished highlight of your career in food?

There are small moments that are part of a larger tapestry of change that I've been able to be a part of. I get messages every other day; many are on LinkedIn, some are on email, some are from my website form, and some are from Instagram. 

I get notes from women or men who have heard a podcast I did about three years ago. They'll say, "Hey, Jenny, I heard your podcast and started a company," or "Hey, I came to your conference last year, and I've completely changed what I do for a living," or "I've totally transformed the way that I eat" or whatever it might be. The small ripple effect of these stories matters the most to me. 

That's what makes it worth doing. I don't think it's one specific moment. It's these small ripples that add up to the change we need.

It is the perfect way to change the world. One person cannot do a lot, but with what you're doing, you're igniting this little spark in thousands of people, and that change and impact compounds.

You are changing the world because you're changing how people think about changing the world. That's impactful.

To add, 93% of consumer food purchases are made by women. So when people ask me why I focus on women, I say it just makes sense from the bottom line.

You know? You're a founder. You're building a food brand. You know who your consumers are, you know who's buying the product.

By identifying and targeting that head of household, you're reaching the decision-maker who influences the entire household. That one person could lead to four people eating differently or purchasing differently.

That's how you can impact the most change.

That's very true. I inherited so much of my taste from my mom. It's all influenced by what she bought and fed us growing up.

When I speak to single or unpartnered guys, I ask them, "What detergent do you buy?" or "What X do you buy?" And I can always find that through line to their mom within 30 seconds. That impact can be from your mom, partner, sister, or whoever lives with you. It's undeniable.

There's something about men's inherent satisfaction with the status quo versus women's seeking to improve/nurture their families. I think this might explain why women-run startups statistically outperform their male counterparts.

Well, statistically speaking, women founders return a 63% higher exit. A large part of that is related to the fact that women don't get as much funding. Because of that imbalance, we tend to be better with money. 

All the statistics also show that women founders are more efficient and effective with fewer dollars. I believe women inherently think of leadership differently than men. 

Both leadership styles have a lot of value, and the world needs both styles.

Many people believe that there's been that imbalance because, at least in food, 70% of food executives are male—super ironic because they're mostly selling to moms.

How can we better represent women regarding these food choices with that imbalance? There are entire categories where you can see that unconscious bias. A big one is the infant and toddler category. We've barely innovated on baby formula in 50+ years.

If we had more women at that helm, we would have likely changed baby formula much sooner.

And that's a whole other conversation, too, but many babies are born with a dairy allergy. No one has worked on high-quality alternatives for that need. 

If we had had more women leaders in this industry, they may have focused on this sooner.

What's the most surprising success you've seen in food tech recently?

Financial success, consumer success, or...

However you define it. What's something that's genuinely surprised you?

I was a food expert for Fast Company's food innovation list. What I found really interesting is Bonza. It's not a particularly new innovation, but I think Bonza is one of the most fascinating CPG stories of all time—certainly in modern CPG history—because they haven't raised in years. Their exit is going to be a great one.

I love Bonza so much.

What they've been able to do to take that amount of shelf space next to all the major 100-year-old pasta brands, especially with a more expensive product, is incredible. It started with a gluten-free trend, but now it's more of a high-protein product. 

Protein diversification is one of the most untapped CPG categories. There's that Equii bread. They use a proprietary fermentation technique to make bread with a super high protein content. The ability to take staple foods and turn them into high-protein alternatives for the masses is super interesting. 

It's a great example of how a niche category like gluten-free can become a really big dominant piece. For instance, it's become the center of plate protein for me. 

If we can get people to diversify their center of plate protein, we can meaningfully impact people's diets and move them to a more sustainable and healthier diet. 

I credit a lot of this change to Bonza.

I completely agree. Part of the solution for the future is for meat eaters to consume less meat rather than converting all of their meat to plant meat.

Bonza is a great way to convert some of that meat protein into plant protein through pasta, waffles, and other foods. 

I bought a new cereal yesterday, and it is literally the same idea. It's chickpea flour and pea protein—Three Wishes cereal. I never thought I'd be eating cereal again, but suddenly, it's like, oh my God, this bowl of cereal has more protein than my protein bar and less sugar. Incredible.

I haven't bought bread in a decade, but the Equii team sent me theirs a few months back, and I found myself eating it because it was high-protein. 

The problem in the United States is this protein obsession. Scientifically, we all know that we don't need this much protein, but let's say the consumer wants it anyway.

If we can start to pick apart the functional aspects of food a lot more, we have a better chance of reducing meat in people's diets. If you're going to eat fast food, you can do a good enough job with plant-based or mostly plant-based.

If it's junk food, nobody is noticing a difference.

I'm also a big supporter of blended [meat and plant-based meat]. There's a lot of opportunity to reduce the amount of meat in the product. 

So, junk food is great. Every few months, I may have a burger, but for my main staples Monday through Friday, what am I going to eat? Protein is such an important element in other ways.

Somebody is making higher-protein pasta sauces. I spent some time in London with a brand that offers this novel high-protein flour ingredient to make pasta or waffles.

I use Vega Sport in the morning to diversify where I'm getting my protein; it's like 4-5 different types.

For gut health and biome, so many studies connect to the importance of the diversity of your protein and your fruits and vegetables. When it comes to satiation, this is the name of the game everyone's talking about. We're in the ozempic craze right now, and how to keep people full longer. That is a huge aspect of it.

Photos from Vegan Women Summit 2024

Let's talk about Vegan Women Summit. What would you say has been the most significant impact of the Vegan Women Summit?

Last year was our biggest year yet. We had over 1,200 people in New York City and conducted 300 on-site media interviews. We had over 150 pieces of media coverage, including full segments on Good Morning America, MSNBC, and all kinds of major outlets that otherwise haven't covered something with the word vegan in it.

The most important piece is our impact on changing the cultural narrative. 

Our audience is about 60% non-vegan. The majority are vegan advocates, sustainability-minded, vegan-curious, etc. I firmly believe that if I can create a 360° view of what our future could look, feel, and taste like, even just for one day, we can impact how consumers think about their daily purchasing.

If we show you a better, cruelty-free, or plant-based version, and you experience it firsthand and see that it can be everything you need daily, you'll go out and start buying it. And if I can do that with fashion and beauty, we don't only cover food. We cover the future of food, fashion, beauty, biotechnology, sustainability, and wellness.

If I can show you a better version that is kinder and more sustainable, that's how we can truly make a difference. It focuses on that cultural impact. 

A lot of food events are business-oriented trade shows. I consider VWS to be the South by Southwest of our industry. Nobody's really focusing on consumers for these events.

With VWS, we're creating a place where entertainment, innovation, consumers, and activism can come together around a shared focus.

It's like talking with people rather than talking at them. One of my goals with Salt & Main is to bring together consumers and people working in food to bridge these conversations.

It's important for people to understand their buying power can make a difference.

These large conglomerates rule the entire food industry but rely on startups to grow. Consumer demand proves the concept, and that's when they absorb them and expand those concepts.

It's really on us as consumers to prove by buying what we want. You vote with your dollar and show the larger industry that there is a demand for these better products. 

Most consumers don't think that their purchases make a difference, but they really do make all the difference in the future of food.

I read the annual report that VMS published a few years ago and saw that harassment is the most pressing challenge/concern that women face in food. Is that still true, or is there a greater challenge now?

There's bias and discrimination, which can lead to harassment. I've been harassed multiple times today already. It's like that all the time. You would be surprised at the crazy messages people send. 

I'm so sorry to hear that.

The reason why we're receiving harassment is because of discrimination. I also think that discrimination can be an unconscious bias. It rolls up to this larger conversation of, we have not redefined the entrepreneur to look like everybody. And that's not just women. 

Black women have the most discrimination of all, and older women and gay women, there are so many different lenses of being a minority. When they compound, it becomes really difficult.

But it's not just the unconscious bias at face value. Because of that bias, the networking that they have as a result of their lived experience or lack of networking makes it really, really hard for them to fundraise. 

Very few women I speak to have the pedigree or the network to access VC, and that's a problem. That's why I make myself super accessible. I've already heard four pitches today. I'm very accessible. You can pitch me on my website, Joyful.vc. We make Joyful's intake form public, and we look at every single one. 

You don't need some crazy referral. We don't have one of those VC sites where you're guessing how on earth you'll ever get to them. We're trying to help combat that challenge and make funding more accessible. I think that is ultimately the biggest challenge women face today.

I believe it. Just two years ago, I entered the food world without prior experience. Everything that has come to me in the form of business success has been from networking, just showing up, and being in the right place at the right time with the right people. My business wouldn't be where it is now if not for all that. And I realize how much of a privilege being in those spaces can be. That is a considerable challenge to overcome.

It's a very big challenge if you are not born into a world where you get access to people like that or if you're not in a white-collar family; in my family, I'm the first to graduate high school and college. My parents have a 10th-grade education. For me, the concept of a venture capitalist was never within the wheelhouse of what someone like me would grow up to become.

Most people I knew became teachers or mechanics, and they work at the local Honda plant. That's pretty much everybody I grew up with. It's really important to create representation and access to find people. We don't have a solution yet, but we can make investors more accessible.

Photos from Vegan Women Summit 2024

We're running short on time for part one. I have two more questions; I'll let you choose which one of the two questions. Who are the women in food that have inspired you throughout your career? Or who are the young women that give you hope for a better future in food?

The person who comes to mind at this moment is my friend Heather Mills. For folks unfamiliar with Heather, she's one of the toughest people I've ever met. She was married to a beetle and went through the second-most public divorce in UK history.

Divorcing Paul McCartney, the level of vitriol she endured publicly while running one of the biggest manufacturing companies in the UK, and having to keep that going while going through literally one of the worst tabloid-fueled experiences a person can ever imagine is just totally incredible.

A few months ago, her board actually voted to try and liquidate the company while she was flying on a plane, and they knew she wouldn't be available for the board vote. So she had to fight to get her company back. She'll be talking about this at the Vegan Women's Summit.

Whoa!

Yeah, she owns six factories all over the UK. I didn't even mention the fact that she's a Paralympian. That's actually how she got into plant-based eating when she lost her leg. 

The life she has led is unbelievable. If I hadn't seen it for myself, I would not believe this could be one person, but it is. Folks unfamiliar with Heather should hear her story at the Vegan Women's Summit. She's also in my book.

My goal with what I do is to create that representation because so many Heathers out there don't get the credit they deserve.

I, for one, would love to read about all the Heathers out there.

PART II: Food

Describe your childhood in food.

Um, hot dog casserole.

What is hot dog casserole?

What do you think it is, Lex? I was raised by a stay-at-home dad; my mom worked. To compound that, my dad is blind. So, for the majority of my childhood, I ate a lot of very readily accessible, simple meals. My dad had a way of inventing a new casserole every week, typically with spam, hot dogs, and whatever kind of cheap protein we could get our hands on.

To be honest, I did not even consider how I ate until I was in my 20s. I was probably the last person on earth you would ever expect to go vegan, but here I am.

What were some of your favorite food traditions growing up?

Well, my mom is British. She was born in London. We always had Sunday night dinner. That was probably my favorite food tradition. No matter what, we always had Sunday night dinner together.

When I was younger, it was often a roast or something similar to a cottage roll, usually some center meat with potatoes and things like that.

It was really special to me because my mom worked every day except Sundays. The one day we always had as a family was Sunday night dinner.

I love that so much. I had a weekly family dinner for a very short period of my life. It's a special memory.

How would you describe your current dining habits/rituals today?

I work from home, so I eat most of my meals at home. I don't even have the Postmates app or anything like that. I cook 90% of what goes into my body.

It typically is function over taste, especially on weekdays. My husband and I often meal prep. There are about three pounds of seitan in my fridge right now that will get sliced up night by night.

Every plate has 50% vegetables, and I'll add 25% protein, typically tofu or sometimes a vegan chicken tender like Gardein. The other 25% of my plate is either rice or a plant-based protein pasta like Bonza.

What feelings does food invoke in you?

There are two ways to look at it.

As a person who has been vegan for over a decade, food can be a very troubling and difficult topic. It brings a lot of history and emotion.

When people hear that you don't eat animals, confrontation can occur. I am at the point where I am comfortable eating plant-based, but there was a time when it was extremely difficult.

It was very isolating in the early days to take on a diet that was so counter to the standard American diet. But over the years, I've created a strong community. Society has also changed a lot. 

So I would say that food is very positive for me today, but it was not always.

How do those feelings change when it's weekday versus weekend food?

A Sunday roast dinner is a good weekend meal. I make the same roast my mom used to make, but I use Meati cutlets on mine. I will just do what you do with a roast, but I throw meaty steaks in the middle, which makes it tastes almost identical. I try to get more creative, and I see it as more fun and less functional on weekends.

During the week, I work way too much and don't find myself having the joy of cooking, so I reheat or eat something I've meal-prepped.

My weekday food is just eating something quick, and I feel how some of the joy is lost.

I'm trying to bring some joy back now. I just started eating Siete potato chips because they have super clean ingredients, and they bring a little joy to my plate. But I still weigh out exactly 1oz each time. Not as joyful as eating from the bag.

That's what a good sauce or spice is. If you open my cupboard, you will see that I love trying new flavors and spices.

My latest one, this spice I found called holy garlic, is like black garlic salt. There will be no vampires coming here because we've had holy garlic everything in the house for the last few weeks. It's really good.

Okay, I've got to get my hands on that.

I found it at Grocery Outlet; my name dropped for this talk. That's where I get so much food and where I find so many new brands.

Wait, is that a store?

Yeah, you've never been to Grocery Outlet, and you live in LA?

Writing this down. I have not heard of it.

You have to go to. It is one of the fastest-growing grocery stores in America right now. It started as more outlet-y back in the day, kind of like Costco, but now it's small, like a regular grocery store, and they have the regular staples, fruits, vegetables, whatever. 

It's where products that aren't selling at Erewhon or Whole Foods end up after. They have this section called nosh—natural organic specialty foods.

I find stuff for about 90% less than what Whole Foods or Erewhon lists them.

If brands are changing packaging, if there's a typo, or if it's getting a little old, they send everything to the grocery outlet. 

You can find some of the nicest, highest-quality food products for pennies. That is my secret.

I had no idea about this.

I have secret Grocery Outlet threads with other friends in the industry. And we send each other updates when there's a super awesome deal.

Final Question. What was your last great food adventure?

I had a really great food adventure in Mexico City. That was the best. 

I tried this place called Los Losers. I really recommend it to anyone going to Mexico City. It is a restaurant where everything is based on mushrooms.

It's this really interesting husband and wife team. They make all the food for you. It's a very well-known but kind of small spot. And it's so creative. 

I'm not even a huge mycophile, either. That was probably the last time I had a really interesting food adventure. Overall, Mexico City had really, really good food.

I'm not a fan of mushrooms, but I am intrigued.

I am not a mushroom person, but what they did with them was just so cool and unique. Totally worth visiting.

This issue of Salt&Main is brought to you by

LEXINGTON BAKES Luxury Brownies & Cookies

Part III: Dessert

This interview continues with rapid-fire questions on TikTok and Instagram. Follow @SaltAndMain on TikTok and @SaltAndMain on Instagram and don’t miss the rest of the conversation including Jennifer’s favorite dairy-free milk, vegan nuggets, and popcorn flavor; which recent food she disliked, her top international snacks, the perfect sandwich, and which food people would be most surprised she loves.

Connect with Jenny

• Follow: @jennystojkovic (IG)

• Follow: Jenny on LinkedIn

• Follow: @veganwomensummit

• Read: The Future of Food is Female

• Invest: Joyful.VC

If you enjoyed this interview, please help us grow by forwarding to a friend who might enjoy it too. 🫶

Hannah Hong, along with Mollie Cha, is one of the two co-founders of Must Love. Until this year, Must Love manufactured incredible plant-based ice cream treats. They recently pivoted to focus on their super delicious Classic Graham Cookies sweetened only with dates.

Must Love won Stacy's Rise Project 2019 (a Pepsico/Frito-Lay mentorship program for female founders), Women Founders Network Fast Pitch 2019, and Natural Products Expo West Pitch Slam 2019.

In the first part of our conversation, Hannah and I discuss her path from earning an MBA at UCLA to realizing her dream of becoming a brand manager with Bolthouse Farms via Campbell's to becoming an innovative food founder.

In part two, we explore where her love and passion for food originated, examine how food has shaped and influenced her life from childhood through becoming a mom, and finally, uncover her greatest food adventure.

When you're finished reading, don't forget about dessert. This story continues on our social channels with a few rapid-fire questions about the foods Hannah loves (and doesn't love) and other fun food questions.

Bon Appétit! - Read Time: 12 Minutes

If you’re reading this email in gmail it might get clipped! You can always view full issues here.

Photos courtesy of Must Love

Part I: Business

Lex: Describe your path to working in food.

Hannah: This is very nerdy, but I've wanted to be a brand manager for a CPG (consumer packaged goods) food company since undergrad when I was 20.

That was my dream job. [said with laughter]

I'm laughing because I didn't even know what brand managers do back then. 

When I was an undergrad, a brand manager from Clorox came to my marketing class. He told us what brand managers do and explained "consumer insights" and how a brand manager activates consumer insights.

I was like, that is so amazing! I really want to do that!

Then I realized you can't easily get that job out of undergrad, especially when I graduated in 2006. Becoming a brand manager with only a bachelor's degree is rare. So I did the financial services thing because everyone was doing that.

When I went to get my MBA, I wanted to be recruited by a CPG food company. It's very unromantic, but that was my dream, to work in food as a brand manager.

So, where did you go after getting your MBA?

I started at Bolthouse Farms, owned by Campbell's at the time [now owned by Butterfly Equity]. It was part of a big CPG company but still felt like a small one within the larger parent company.

I had to do a lot myself—more than a brand manager at a large conglomerate. That experience was invaluable, and I'm still super close with my past colleagues there.

So, yeah. That's my path to working in food. 

Dang, that's probably one of the most businessy answers you get from your guests.

I love it! Knowing what you want to do so early in life is rare.

When did you make the leap from Bolthouse Farms to start Must Love?

So my best friend at the time, wait, no, sorry, my best friend FOREVER…

Mollie Cha!

Yes. Mollie was finishing her business degree on the East Coast and wanted to move back here.

At MIT, correct?

Yes, Mollie was at MIT. She wanted to come back to California, but recruiting from across the country is very hard, even if you attend a fancy school like MIT.

She had strong experience in finance and strategy, and our team at Bolthouse had an opening that didn't require CPG experience. It was more of a strategy role on the innovation team. 

So I sent in her resume and pretended she was just an acquaintance from college and not like my maid of honor.

Of course, she got the job because Mollie is amazing.

Then, literally within two hours of her first day, people were like, wait, what is this? What is going on between you two?

We were so giddy to be working together. Here we were, two best friends working at Bolthouse in arguably the best function in CPG, innovation.

So, both of us are children of immigrants who came to this country for the American dream. 

Our parents became entrepreneurs. We grew up watching them hustle with the grit and spirit needed to make it through the toughest of days as business owners. It was in our blood and work ethic to try and start something for ourselves, and we're very interested in food. 

We worked in food all our lives—our ideas were all food-based. Mollie and I were ideating different things we could do together. We landed on frozen desserts because we're both lactose intolerant, and that was a space in which we wanted to see more innovation.

All these things drove us to start our own food brand.

Our food background primed us with the experience you need to be successful. We knew enough to be dangerous but not enough to be effective in every aspect of running our own company.

It sounds like you had the right corporate background to get started and were wise enough to know that there are still functions to master.

What was the most challenging obstacle you've had to overcome?

This interview is only 30 minutes, Lex! How am I supposed to explain all of it?

You know this because you also worked at a big CPG company. Everyone thinks marketing sits in an ivory tower, and they don't really know what's going on or how to do stuff.

It isn't necessarily true everywhere, but for us, the actual making of the product was very challenging.

In the early days, it was super fun and super cute. Mollie and I had a tiny commercial kitchen, and we would make our ice cream and deliver it in our own trucks. My husband Jerry rigged a Ford to become an ice cream delivery truck.

Production was cute and fun at first, but once we started to scale sales, it became awful because we were doing everything. We were in production every day, so we were limited in our ability to work on the business. 

Every day, I drowned in production, sometimes into the night, and then tried to squeeze in an hour of reading and responding to emails. I was constantly behind and treading water for about a year before we finally figured out co-packing.

That was the hardest thing I've ever had to go through.

I can relate; that's where I am now, and tough is an understatement.

Now that production is off your plate, I've read that you love sales and marketing the most. Is that still true after eight years of running a very successful startup?

Is it successful? I don't know, but thanks, Lex. Is it true, though?

Very successful!

My favorite part of running our company is getting to work with my best friend every day.

Honestly, our husbands think we don't work and are just hanging out because it's always so fun now. Even when solving terrible problems, we have fun solving them together. So that's the best part. 

In terms of function, sure, sales is better than making the ice cream ourselves.

What is your most cherished memory of working in food?

There are actually a lot. One memory? I'll give you two.

In my corporate life, an experience that ignited my imagination and made me fall in love with innovation is focus groups. It was a big company, and I worked with a great agency to co-create my ideas with consumer focus groups. Being able to ideate together live for a few hours excites me about food innovation. It reminds us to focus on fitting into the lives of consumers and solving a real need that they have but might not even know that they have.

In the entrepreneurial world, I have a love-hate thing for Expo West and the opportunity it offers.

Deals that may or may not happen are more of a luck-of-the-draw situation, but the best part is connecting deeper with your team and everyone else who loves food—thousands of people from across the country who love good food.

Talking about your product and getting live feedback and engagement is super fun, too.

I'm very extroverted. Even if I dread going to Expo West, I love it when I'm there because I get so much energy from the show.

I can relate to both. The first part is that, as a design researcher, you can never ask people what they want because they don't know. The creativity is asking the right questions to find those unmet and unknown needs. Visualizing a solution that doesn't exist is like a super fun puzzle.

Totally.

And I feel the same way about Expo. The magic is not the deals you make but the relationships you stumble into. Especially when you're walking the show and not at a booth, you don't know who you will run into on the escalator or between halls.

Right! Like how we met at Expo East! We just bumped into each other.

That's the magic of Expo. I started LXB after 15 years in skincare, knowing nobody in food. Within a year of attending these shows, I now know more people in food than in skincare. I'm very open to meeting people, and it's truly changed my life. So, thanks for being a part of that magic. ✨

I think you also draw people towards you, Lex. You get what you put out there, you know? That's why you've been able to grow your network so well, too.

That's awfully kind of you to say. Thank you.

Who are the women in food that inspire you?

Alice Waters, who opened Chez Panisse, was like the pinnacle of California cuisine when I was in college at Berkeley. That was where I developed my love for the food business and food in general. Before college, I never made anything at home. I didn't know how to cook. She really ignited my love for food. She's a creative genius.

Oh! You know what, actually, I'm gonna name-drop. I got to meet Padma Lakshmi. She's sensational and also very funny.

I won an award through this accelerator through PepsiCo, and Padma was a celebrity judge. It was very much like Top Chef. She gave me my final prize.

I met her in New York with the other finalists, and I've been watching her since season two of Top Chef. She's another source of huge inspiration for me, but watching food being cooked live triggers PTSD now. I can't watch The Bear. I think about myself in the kitchen, and it really stresses me out to no end. 

With Padma on Top Chef and Taste the Nation, it's inspirational and fun to understand food at the highest levels and locally with all the cultural influences behind food.

They're both celebrities. Is that lame?

Not at all. Sometimes, the people who have the most awareness are the ones who have the greatest potential to influence lasting change in you and inspire you to do something. So, no, it's not lame at all.

Thank you.

PART II

Describe your childhood in food.

California Roll Party Night! 

I don't know if that means anything to anybody outside my family. My mom worked full time. I love her a lot, and she tries really hard, but she's not the best at cooking. 

My upbringing is very different from that of many of my friends who are second-generation Korean Americans. They all ate Korean food at home, and their moms cooked it.

My mom came here when she was in high school, so we ate a lot of enchilada casseroles and Stouffer's lasagna. That's what I ate growing up because my mom also grew up here.

We ate a lot of Western food at home. Of course, we ate Korean food, too. But more so than many of my friends growing up, I got to eat all the classic American treats.

So, California Roll Party Night.

You buy all the ingredients and lay them out, and then everyone gets to make their own deconstructed California rolls. That and Taco Party Night were huge hits for our family growing up.

I would love both of those nights, tbh.

Next California World Party night, you're coming. If you want to trek down to Orange County.

I will bring brownies!

What other family food traditions are especially memorable?

This is going to sound so cliche because I am Korean American, but my grandmother, who used to live with us, would make kimchi from scratch.

I don't know if you've ever tried pickling anything, especially a long-term pickle.

It's very labor intensive because so many ingredients go into it. Every family has their own recipe, too. It also varies depending on where your family is in Korea. I know someone who puts coffee in theirs.

When I was little, my mom and I would help my grandma make it. It's a dying art because the generation that used to do it by hand is dying.

Now, my mom and I just buy it from the store, but that is one of my most cherished memories of my grandma.

Most of my cherished food memories are with my grandma, too. 

Grandma love is the best.

You've answered this next question, what snacks remind you of home?, but is there anything different from what you've already shared?

Roasted sweet potatoes, that's the only thing I'll add.

Tell me more about these roasted sweet potatoes.

Trader Joe's sells these little Japanese potatoes, and I roast four at a time. I eat them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner until they're gone.

If you roast them long enough, they become custard-like. Some people freeze them and eat them as a frozen dessert. A lot of Koreans—at least Koreans I know—eat them as a snack at home.

You have to get the little Japanese sweet potatoes, though. Not the yams you make during Thanksgiving; those are gross.

That sounds so delicious! Potatoes are my favorite vegetable.

One hundred percent. No competition.

How would you describe your current dining habits/rituals today?

I was depressed for a while after I had my baby. Not to get so deep, but I stopped cooking because I was going through that. For a long time—like the past three years—I would mostly eat takeout. Not every day, obviously, that's unsustainable, but I ate a lot of takeout.

I've got a better handle on my mental health this year, maybe last year. I've been cooking a lot more. 

Oh, and we moved houses, so it's a different kitchen now. It has an electric oven, and it's awful. It's easy to clean, but I'm used to having gas appliances for cooking, so that was a big change for me.

My child is really picky, so I end up eating everything she rejects, which is a big part of breakfast anyway. 

Mollie and I have a cute little kitchenette in the office where we keep some milk and cereal. I'll often have that as a snack—dairy-free milk, obviously.

We have this one place that's walkable from our office. It's like a really divey diner. Guy Fieri would love it. We eat there a lot.

How do you consider and evaluate new foods today? Whether walking down a grocery aisle or reading through a restaurant menu?

I bet when you ask food people this question, you don't get an accurate answer because we overthink everything. Most people just look at the packaging. I immediately look at the ingredients list. I definitely don't count my macros or anything like that.

If the ingredient deck is healthy enough, I believe the nutritional facts, the calories, fat, protein, and everything will be balanced. That's how we look at the development of our products.

At a restaurant, that's really difficult because there is no ingredients list. You only have a description and, if you're lucky, a photo. So, that would be different in that situation.

If you come across something unfamiliar, are you curious to try it?

Oh, of course! I would have to Google it because I'm allergic to shellfish and obviously lactose intolerant.

So, if there's an unfamiliar term or cooking method, I'll look it up for safety.

But I'm always curious, especially if it's something I don't know. I look up the definitions of words I don't understand when I come across them daily in life anyway; it's the same with food.

What feelings does food invoke in you?

I'm always excited to eat. I don't understand people who eat to live. I live to eat.

Even if it's something simple, like Captain Crunch or Peanut Butter Crunch cereal. It's my mom's favorite cereal from when she was growing up and she's imparted that love to me and my brother.

Even that with dairy-free milk is such a pleasure for me. It doesn't have to be fancy, you know?

Yeah, I crave Cocoa Puffs all the time. It was my childhood favorite. Sometimes, I used to refuse to eat if it wasn't a bowl of Cocoa Puffs.

What was your last great food adventure?

Ooh, that's such a hard question!

I don't know if this is a lame answer because it's from when I was traveling.

My friend from business school got married in Thailand, she lives there. A bunch of us traveled for the wedding, and she took time off work before the wedding to take us out to her favorite spots.

She also took us to places that I would never be able to find again if I went back. They served very traditional Thai cuisine, which was very spicy. That was a huge adventure because it was such a departure from what Americans know as Thai food. There was lots of food I'd never even tried before.

I'm allergic to shrimp, which was kind of a bummer because a lot of dishes had shrimp. However, I loved the vegetarian versions of things.

Sounds like an epic food adventure.

It was! and super fun.

This issue of Salt & Main is brought to you by

LEXINGTON BAKES Luxury Brownies & Cookies

Part III: Dessert

This interview continues with 10 rapid fire questions on TikTok and Instagram. Follow @SaltAndMain on TikTok and @SaltAndMain on Instagram and don’t miss the rest of the story including…

Hannah’s favorite ice cream flavor, best and worst cookie, favorite international snack, worst food smell, best fruit, what food she would not share with anyone and more.

Connect with Hannah & Must Love

• Follow: @HannahandMollie

• Follow: @MustLove

• Visit: Must.Love

• Shop: Must Love on Amazon

If you enjoyed this interview, please help us grow by forwarding to a friend who might enjoy it too. 🫶

Nidhi Shetty is a dear friend I met while working at Johnson & Johnson, where she is a Business Technology Leader. She is the first person I ask when I'm seeking the best restaurants to try in Los Angeles; she knows everything from emerging pop-up kitchens around LA to the best unknown hole-in-the-wall spots to Michelin-starred restaurants.

Nidhi documents her food experiences on her Instagram account, @NidhiEats09, which I have watched grow to an impactful following. Most recently, Nidhi and her business partner, Chef Komal, launched a pop-up kitchen of their own, Rasoda, which brings to LA one of the most authentic Indian dining experiences this city has seen.

Bon Appétit! - Read Time: 15 Minutes

If you’re reading this email in gmail it might get clipped! You can always view full issues here.

Photos from @NidhiEats09

Part I: Business

Lex: Describe your path to working in food.

Nidhi: My journey into the world of food started when I was a kid, all thanks to the amazing smells coming from my grandpa's restaurant. Even though I wasn't skilled in cooking, my taste buds were honed by my mom and my lovely grandaunts, who taught me to appreciate the intricate flavors of food. But what truly fascinated me was the idea of creating unforgettable experiences for others through hospitality.

As I grew older, I found myself captivated by the beauty of these culinary moments, and photography became my way of sharing the joy of food with a wider audience. Whether I'm capturing mouthwatering dishes or immortalizing the expressions of pure bliss on people's faces, I've discovered immense fulfillment in connecting people through the universal language of food.

So, my journey in the food industry is not just about savoring delicious flavors but also about building a sense of community and spreading happiness one bite at a time.

What would you say is the best thing to happen from everything you're doing to celebrate other people in food?

Oh, let me tell you about this one time! It was a few years ago when I stumbled upon this hidden gem called Marouch. It's this cozy little Armenian Lebanese restaurant tucked away on Santa Monica Blvd. And let me tell you, they have the most incredible Lebanese Kibbeh that I absolutely couldn't resist!

So, I was so excited about my experience that I couldn't help but share it on Instagram. Little did I know that Marouch was struggling financially at the time. But you know what? My post ended up being a game-changer for them. People started flocking to the restaurant, all thanks to my humble contribution.

Guess what happened next? The Food Network and the one and only Guy Fieri from Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives got wind of Marouch's amazing story. They planned to feature immigrant-owned restaurants in LA, and Marouch was lucky enough to make the cut. Can you believe it? My post actually saved the restaurant and the hardworking folks there just in the nick of time for their big break on national television!

I must say, this whole experience has been one of my proudest moments of giving back to the community. It's the reason why I started my Instagram food account, @NidhiEats09. I hope that through my posts, I can continue to support and uplift other small businesses.

That is amazing. Mission accomplished.

100%. And I hope to help many more as I grow my account.

How does your job impact how people eat? Well, not your job, but your passion?

I love writing about restaurants because I believe in being completely authentic and honest. When I review a restaurant, I make sure to cover everything from the taste to the authenticity. And it's not just limited to American restaurants! I'm all about showcasing the amazing cuisines from different regions of countries that people might not be familiar with. Take Indian restaurants, for example. It's not just about the popular dishes like butter chicken and paneer. I want to introduce people to the deliciousness of dosa's and theplas, which they may not have tried before.

On my Instagram, it's not just about discovering new places. I also want to educate my followers about the wide variety of unique food cuisines out there beyond the Americanized versions of global cuisines. There's so much more to explore and enjoy, and I'm excited to share it all with you!

What's the most shocking thing you've learned about your work?

Let me tell you about this super interesting thing I found out a while back. I was completely blown away when I discovered that most investors in woman-owned food businesses are not women themselves. Can you believe it? It's just mind-boggling to think that there are so few women investors in businesses owned by women.

Anyway, one of my main goals is to support these incredible women-owned restaurants. I'm all about showcasing them on my account, dining at their places, and finding other ways to lend a helping hand. It's just so important to me.

But seriously, that whole investor situation was my biggest shocker.

That’s also the case for many women-owned CPG food brands.

It's like you can't escape it, right?

What is a cherished memory of running Nidhi Eats?

Oh, there are just so many memories to choose from! Let me share one that warms my heart. It all started when I stumbled upon this amazing place called KinKan on Virgil Avenue near Echo Park. Owned by the talented Chef Nan, who hails from Bangkok, it quickly became a special spot for me.

You see, Chef Nan began her LA journey by selling her mouthwatering bento boxes during the challenging times of COVID-19. Witnessing her determination and passion, I couldn't help but support her. So, when she finally opened her own restaurant, I became a regular visitor, forging beautiful friendships along the way.

We formed a close-knit foodie group, exploring various restaurants together. And guess what? Chef Nan became an integral part of our culinary adventures. From savoring delectable yakitori to indulging in the wonders of Bavel and even treating ourselves to a mesmerizing sushi omakase experience at Yasu in Beverly Hills, we shared countless memorable moments.

Building new friendships in the vibrant city of LA has truly been a cherished treasure for me. But you know what? This applies not just to running a CPG food business but also to any food-related endeavor. The best part is the incredible community of like-minded individuals who share a deep love for food. It's as if food has this magical power to unite people from all walks of life.

And this industry is tighter than you might think. In one way or another, we are all connected. For instance, my Art Institute of Los Angeles photography teacher, who happens to be an LA Times food photographer, is acquainted with the renowned Chef Nancy Silverton. It's amazing how everyone seems to know each other, like the talented Anne Fishbein.

Indeed, the world of food is a splendid place where friendships blossom, connections intertwine, and unforgettable experiences await.

I want to circle back to your photography skills because I've witnessed you take stunning photos. I didn't know you took a class. Can you tell me a little bit more?

During college, I decided to take this amazing photography course taught by the incredible Anne Fishbein. Just last week, I had the pleasure of catching up with her over dinner, and let me tell you, she hasn't changed a bit. She was one of the first to show up and support us during our pop-up launch, which meant the world to us. I owe all of my photography skills to her unwavering support and guidance.

Plates from Rasoda

Speaking of your pop-up, let's move on to that part of your food world. How did Rasoda come to be?

Well, Rasoda officially launched in 2023, but the seed of the idea was actually planted back in 2012 when I met Komal Savaria, our talented chef and founder. Komal used to live next door to me, and we quickly became the best of buddies. She would always invite me over and cook up a storm. Every time I tasted her food, I couldn't help but insist that she share her incredible talent with the world.

Fast-forward a bit. Komal pursued her passion and attended Le Cordon Bleu to become a skilled baker. She gained valuable experience working for Chef Sang at Lukshon in Culver City, where her journey in the food industry truly took off. And then came COVID, which unexpectedly made it easier for Californians to cook and serve food from home. That's when the idea for Rasoda was born.

In April 2023, we took the leap and launched Rasoda right in Komal's backyard patio. Initially, we started with reservations for small groups of eight to nine people, and soon enough, the word spread like wildfire.

Now, on Fridays and Saturdays, we proudly serve a delectable 10-course meal. Each menu is thoughtfully crafted, representing a different region of India, and every dish holds its own unique story. Rasoda, which means kitchen, aims to transport you to the heart of an authentic Indian dining experience. It's like stepping into someone's home in India and savoring their homemade goodness. That's what Rasoda is all about.

I heard that if you go to India, the best food you'll find is in the homes of your friends and family. Would you say that's true?

Oh, you won't believe it! If you ever get a chance to visit India, let me tell you, the absolute best food you'll come across is in the cozy homes of your dear friends and family. Trust me, it's like a warm hug for your taste buds! And you know what makes it even more amazing? When those recipes have been passed down through generations, just like Komal's. Her mom, grandmother, and mother-in-law have shared their culinary secrets, and we're lucky enough to share them with everyone who steps foot into Rasoda. It's a real treat, my friend!

So, in many ways, this might be the most authentic Indian food you will find in Los Angeles.

Seriously, it's the real deal. I've had my fair share of Indian cuisine, and I can be quite picky when it comes to authenticity. But this place hits the mark.

There are a few spots in New York City that I absolutely adore for their Indian food. Dhamaka, Semma, Adda, Roudy Rooster, and Masala Wala are my top choices. The flavors in those places take me back to my home in India. They're just that good.

I remember going to Dhamaka and trying their Pomfret Fry. It tasted exactly like my mom used to make it. It brought back so many memories. Even though she's been gone for 17 years, that dish made me feel like she had just prepared it. It was truly amazing, and it just goes to show how authentic the food is there.

I was so impressed that I even told my friend Komal that we needed something like that here in Los Angeles. There's nothing quite like those restaurants here, and it's about time we change that. We should open our own place!

Do you know what's great about our pop-up, Rasoda? We're all about vegetarian food. We're not planning on introducing meat anytime soon. We offer a unique and authentic selection of vegetarian Indian dishes you won't find anywhere else in Los Angeles. Trust me, it's a culinary experience you don't want to miss.

What does it mean to be a woman in food business today?

I have to say, it's been a pretty pleasant ride so far—fingers crossed! Maybe it's because we haven't fully launched yet, but I must admit, it's been less of a challenge in my pop-up food business compared to my corporate world.

But you know what? The support we've received from the LA community has been absolutely amazing. They've been so positive, open, and supportive of every step we've taken. Of course, I'm aware that as we continue to grow, we might encounter some of the challenges many women face in the food business. But hey, that's all part of the journey, right?

Oh, and guess what? We're catering our very first wedding this weekend! Exciting times are ahead, and I can't wait to see how it goes!

Amazing. Congratulations on the wedding—that is huge. I remember my first wedding catering made me never want to bake again, but that's because I was baking a thousand macarons from home. After a year in business, I bet you are prepared. It's going to be amazing.

Thank you. Thank you.

From Left: Chef Komal, Rasoda Plate, Nidhi & Guests

Part II: Food

Describe your childhood in food.

We've got a whole bunch of spice, a whole bunch of meat, and a whole bunch of desserts!

Tell me about the desserts!

Let me tell you about Gulab Jamun, these delicious sweet donut holes that are just heavenly. They are so soft and moist, and when you take a bite, they simply melt in your mouth. And the best part? They are dipped in this delightful sugar syrup that adds an extra burst of sweetness to every bite. Trust me, once you try Gulab Jamun, you'll be hooked!

My mouth is watering, too. I want to try all of them, especially the chickpeas. I haven't had sweet chickpeas before, and I think they will be delicious. I have to try this.

Let's go, buddy!

What snacks remind you of home and why?

Oh man, spicy masala peanuts, they're like a taste of home! They used to be my go-to snack, you know, to keep me company when I was up pulling all nighters during exams. Ah, those were the days!

My friend Aadit founded Confusion Snacks and makes Indian-inspired popcorn, but he's also making nuts now. We'll have to get you some of his chili chaat roasted almonds.

Oh, I want to try that!

What were some of your food traditions growing up?

One of them was the rule of using only our right hand, especially when eating with our fingers. We believe in preserving the essence of our culture through this beautiful tradition.

Another tradition we cherished was the joy of eating together as a family. It didn't matter if you finished your plate first; you always waited for everyone else to finish before getting up. We sat together, enjoyed our meals, and left the table together. Creating unforgettable moments of togetherness.

And, of course, since we relished the deliciousness of our food with our bare hands, we always had a bowl of hot water with a refreshing touch of lemon in front of us. We would dip our fingers in it to remove any lingering aroma of the flavorful spices we enjoyed.

It's worth mentioning that the water in the bowl was not meant to be drunk. These traditions may not be widely known in America unless you have the chance to visit someone's home or an authentic place. But when you come to Rasoda, you'll have the opportunity to witness and experience these heartwarming traditions firsthand.

What is your most memorable food experience?

Oh, I have this incredible food memory that makes me smile every time I think about it. It was back when my mom used to prepare a simple yet delicious meal consisting of plain white rice and mackerel fry whenever my dad was away on work trips. Those were her most laid-back and enjoyable days, where she didn't have to worry about cooking elaborate meals. It was just the two of us, my mom and I, having dinner together for a couple of nights. Can you imagine the taste of that perfectly cooked rice with a generous amount of hot ghee and a pinch of salt combined with mouthwatering fried mackerel? Oh, it was pure bliss! And to top it off, we would have some roti on the side. Just thinking about it makes me crave that wonderful experience all over again.

That is so sweet. I love that it's simple and just about family.

Yeah, and self-care.

Describe your current dining habits and rituals today.

So, when I don't have any exciting plans to try out a fancy new restaurant or go on a fun outing, I usually stick to having just one meal a day at home. It's a simple routine that works for me.

Now, when I do go out, it's usually with a big group of friends or family, and we have a delightful family-style dinner. The great thing about dining with a big group is that we get to sample a little bit of everything from the menu, unlike when I dine alone, where I can only manage to try around three dishes.

As for how often I go out, it's usually about three times a week. But every week is different. It's nice to have a balance between enjoying a home-cooked meal and indulging in the vibrant dining scene out there.

How do you consider and evaluate new foods that you tried today?

Let me tell you about this amazing Thai restaurant called Jitlada in Hollywood. It's like stepping into someone's cozy home! The place is simple, nothing fancy, just a little hole in the wall. The flavors are out of this world. They're so genuine and authentic; it's like your own mom's cooking!

For me, what sets a dish apart is the intensity of its flavors. When I taste something that really stands out, I can't help but rave about it. And you know what? I've learned so much about flavors through my travels. Exploring different countries and their cuisines has given me a true sense of what's truly authentic. It's helped me discover restaurants and chefs creating these amazing, unique flavors.

Would that apply to the restaurants you try and the foods that you pick up at the grocery store?

Absolutely! I can't settle for plain and ordinary food. Even something as simple as mashed potatoes needs a little kick. I've been jazzing up my mashed potatoes with Dalkin&Co's Taco seasoning from What's Gaby Cooking. Let me tell you, it's been absolutely scrumptious! I always crave spice and distinctive flavors in my meals.

So, you can bet that my grocery list always includes some international ingredients.

What feelings does food invoke in you and why?

When I'm feeling down, food has this magical power to lift my spirits. It's like a ray of sunshine on a gloomy day. UNI!! (Sea Urchin). It's my go-to when I'm feeling blue, and everyone close to me knows it. Just a bite of that delicious sea urchin, and my troubles melt away. It's like a nostalgic trip back to my happiest memories.

What was your last great food adventure?

I had the most amazing experience last week at Le Peigon in Portland. You won't believe it, but I got to try their delicious foie gras! It was absolutely incredible!

All right, one last question. What's a food people would be surprised that you love?

Oh, I absolutely love beef! I mean, any kind of meat, really. From brains to hearts to livers, you name it, I'll devour it. People always give me that wide-eyed look and go, "Wow, you eat everything!" Oh, and let's not forget about indulging in a shrimp's head or tail. Yum!

I will say I ate liver a lot growing up, and I still love it so much. I would say people would be surprised that I like that, too.

You know what's funny? Back in the day, I couldn't stand liver. I vividly remember this one incident when my mom cooked up a whole meal of liver and boy, was I furious! But you know how it goes; as you get older, your taste buds change, and you become more daring. So you can imagine how mind-blowing it is for me to be head over heels for goose liver. My mom would be like, "No way! My daughter actually enjoys liver?" It's seriously one of my all-time favorite things!

This issue of Salt & Main is brought to you by

LEXINGTON BAKES Luxury Brownies & Cookies

Part III: Rapid Fire Questions

This interview continues with 10 rapid fire questions on TikTok and Instagram that we’ll post throughout the week.

Follow @SaltAndMain on TikTok and @SaltAndMain on Instagram to find out about Nidhi’s favorite LA dessert spot, best and worst cookie, best international snack, worst food smell, favorite ice cream flavor, what food she would not share with anyone and more.

Connect with Nidhi & Rasoda

• Follow: @NidhiEats09

• Follow: @Rasoda

• Book a seating at Rasoda

If you enjoyed this interview, please help us grow by forwarding to a friend who might enjoy it too. 🫶

Dear Foodie,

Have you ever wondered about the people who make the food you love? Or why they got into food business in the first place?

What about the grocery store? Have you ever wondered about the people who decide what products you'll find on their shelves? Or the mouth-watering food visuals you see all over your social feeds and on product packaging?

So many talented people work behind the scenes to bring you the food you find on your table, on store shelves, in coffee shops, restaurants, airplanes, and countless more places.

I can tell you they think about you all the time. It's time to turn this into a two-way street. Welcome to Salt & Main: The Intersection of Food & Business.

I'm Lex Evan, a brand designer, strategist, and self-taught pastry chef turned food founder. In 2022, I left behind my 15-year-long career designing for beauty, health & wellness brands to launch LEXINGTON BAKES, a luxury bakeshop serving organic brownies and cookies online and in grocery stores like Erewhon and Foxtrot. I dove into the food world without prior experience and fell in love with every aspect.

Over the last two years, I have met hundreds of food people and have become ever more curious about how and why they got into food business. So much love, passion, and dedication behind the scenes goes into preparing food for the world. And I want to shine a light on all of it.

This is Salt & Main, a platform dedicated to food people, where I plan to explore my newfound curiosity—borderline obsession—and bring you into the world of food business.

It starts with our upcoming interview series, Conversations with Food People.

Conversations with Food People

I'm so excited to bring you our first series; here's what you can expect.

Conversations with Food People is a weekly interview series in which I talk to various food people to learn about their passion for food business and how food has shaped and impacted their lives.

From celebrity chefs and caterers to coffee shop owners and restauranteurs, nutritionists and publicists, ice cream crafters and pastry chefs, grocery buyers and airline food providers, food photographers and stylists, food critics, editors, and designers, and so many more professions in food business.

I want to dive deep and understand food's role in their lives. From daily diets and eating habits to familial and cultural food traditions to fast food and fine dining experiences, I want to uncover where passion for food is born and how that passion turns into food business that shapes the world around us.

We're building a community of food people who love to talk and think about the impact of food on people, culture, and the economy. That includes you.

Conversations with Food People goes live once we reach 1,000 subscribers. And we need your help to get there.

Until then, I’ll leave you with a brief background on naming this food business.

Naming ‘Salt & Main’

I love it when there’s an aha moment behind a brand name. When it’s intriguing at first, but as soon as you get it, it seems so obvious and effortlessly perfect.

That’s how I feel about Salt & Main, but landing here was anything but effortless.

Our name had to convey two conflicting concepts. We needed a name that would clearly articulate our focus on food & business yet stand out as a unique platform that is neither entirely food nor entirely business.

I spent weeks agonizing over what words could possibly convey this unique intersection that aren’t “food” and “business”. Then, one day, I had an aha moment in the kitchen, of all places.

While preparing dinner, I impulsively reached for the salt cellar on my counter before even checking for the recipe’s ingredients. It’s there because I use salt so often throughout the day, from cooking to baking, breakfast to dinner.

I can’t count how many times I’ve reached for salt during the weeks I spent thinking of a name. Then, at that moment, it became so simply obvious.

“Salt” is the perfect word to ground the focus of this platform because it is an integral part of nearly all prepared and preserved foods. Further, salt was once valued so highly that it was considered currency.

With its ubiquitous use across food in every culture and rich history in trade, “salt” alone may have been a perfect name for this platform, but after simmering for a few days, it needed a dash of something else to feel seasoned.

Our name needed to ground us deeper in our purpose, our “why.”

I’ve found that the passion behind small business is what drives the food industry forward, and that’s why I’m starting this platform. To support, uplift, celebrate, and amplify the food people who drive food business forward.

“Main”, taken from “Main Street,” focuses us further on the small business owners, freelancers, and entrepreneurs who make the food world so magical with their love, passion, and dedication to excellence in serving food to communities across the globe.

That’s when the name felt effortlessly perfect, when I arrived at Salt & Main.

Thank you for meeting me here to help kickstart this platform. 🫶

Sincerely craving ice cream,

Lex Evan, Editor in Chief