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Lift off. We have lift off This is the coolest thing I've ever seen. Like, look at this. This is insane. Like, how did this even happen? You, like, are so obsessive about these science topics and, and obviously space.

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I only talk about space. They generally... NASA, they know who I am. But you've got 25,000 followers on Twitter, 8,000 on Instagram. Your most popular video has 163,000 views. I love social media.

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My first few videos did incredibly well. Everybody's talking about SpaceX all the time. I have a lot of issues with what they do. Like, I'm not a fan girl. That booster landing was amazing.

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But we have not talked about this at all really, like, the financial side of things. [laughs] Yes. I went into this expecting to make no money for the first two years.

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Because I had one video go viral, I was able to do it. I have a policy of, like, even if it scares me, I try to say yes. Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast.

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Our guest today is Swapna Krishna, the writer, producer, and host of Ad Astra, a YouTube channel and newsletter about space.

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She's, she's been working on that for about two years, and I believe it's her first true indie creator-type project, but she's been working as a writer for over a decade across space, science, technology, and pop culture.

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You may have read her work in Wired, The Verge, NPR, The A.V. Club, uh, really far too many places for me to list here, plus podcasts. She even published a book last year called Stargazing. I...

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It, it actually is kind of overwhelming how much stuff you've done, Swapna. Um, but let's start with that book.

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So I think you've been writing professionally for, yeah, for well over a decade, but this is the first time you've published a book, right? Yes, yes. That was an experience for sure. How did that come about?

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Um, basically the publisher reached out to me. It's part of a series called Pocket Nature, and they're these- Mm-hmm...

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small, um, really beautifully put-together gift books, and there's different, different books in the series. There's one on clouds. There's one on, like, mushrooms. Mm-hmm.

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And basically, the idea is to encourage people to, you know, use nature as a method to mindfulness, and, um, it really intrigued me because that's... Mindfulness is generally...

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I think a lot of us are on that journey, um- Mm-hmm... trying to- Eternally... Yeah. Like, right. [laughs] Like, especially, uh, solo creators who can work all the time. Like- Mm...

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I could work 24/7 and not get everything done I needed to get done. And so there's so much in my life. I try to bring mindfulness to my life. And so, um,

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it was a really attractive thing to be able to do to take kind of the science I love and put this mindfulness perspective on it, so I said yes.

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And then, um, yeah, that was the first time I just sat down and I, I wrote the book. I started at the beginning. I wrote it. And it was just...

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It was such an experience 'cause I'm so used to shorter stuff, one-off stuff. Yeah. This is, like, the longest form you've ever done. Yes, yes. Yeah. Exactly. Mm-hmm.

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Well, so, uh, the reason I wanted to start with that is, like, it seemed...

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In, in my researching you, you know, yesterday, it seemed like it really summed up kind of your philosophy in some ways, where, like, you, you, like, are so obsessive about these science topics and, and obviously space.

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Um, but your...

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Like, your skill and your joy is, like, making these things accessible and, like, nerding out on them with other people and, like, sharing it, and it's this, like, social curiosity, um, this shared curiosity.

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I don't know. Does... Do you... Is that a fair way to describe kind of your approach to your work? That hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I want to do.

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Um, space can seem so vast, so incomprehensible, and my goal is to just take little pieces of it and share it with people. You know, I love other people who nerd about space.

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I love talking to people who know every detail about- Mm-hmm... you know, the history of Apollo or, you know, the latest SpaceX, you know, vehicle. Like, I enjoy that, but that's not necessarily my primary audience.

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The primary audience that I try to reach is just people who don't know anything about space but think it could be cool- Yeah... but don't even know where to start.

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Like, when I try to talk about things, I try to explain them in a way, whether I'm talking about something very technical or, you know, cosmology and the Big Bang and the evolution of the universe, I try to talk about them in a way where if you know nothing about it, you can still pick it up and follow what's going on and understand why it matters.

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Like, broader context is very important to me. Yeah. Well, yeah. I... In, in, like, the, the welcome video at the top of your YouTube channel that... You, you kind of say as much. You're like, "I'm not

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a scientist, but I am a science communicator, and, like, my job is to, like, help you understand these things."

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Um, but so the YouTube channel, before we talk about that, I think we have to talk about PBS's Far Out- Yes...

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which is a YouTube show about the next 50 years of science and technology that you hosted and co-wrote, uh, for seven episodes- Yes... in, I think, 2022. And these episodes, they, they did well.

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Uh, I think of the seven, the lowest view count was 8,000. The highest was 347,000. Yeah. Um, was this your first foray into writing and h- even hosting video content? Yeah. So this is funny. This, like...

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This, this series, it didn't run for... My, my part in it didn't run for long, as you said- Yeah... seven episodes, but it really changed my career in a lot of ways. I'm very grateful to the experience.

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There was good and there was bad, like, of course- Yeah... as any- Always the story... always the story. Like, always the story with anything that you work on but don't own. Um,

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uh, but what it did was it basically taught me I have a natural affinity for being on camera, which I never knew. Mm. I never knew. And if you watch the episodes, I'm not...

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I'm proud of my performance, and that was my first thing in a st- it was, like, it was some of my first stuff in a studio. Mm-hmm. I don't think my performance was very nat... I have a lot of criticism. But anyway. Oh.

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Um, but I learned so much [laughs] and that's, like, all I want out of any experience. That's all I want- Mm... out of anything I do in my career.

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I wanna learn something and be able to, you know, build on it or do better. So when I got the offer, that was-It was a year between when I kind of got the offer for that show and when it actually started production. Oh.

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Um, so it was, there was a very long lead time. And I got the offer and, like, I was just like, "Oh, can I do this?" Like, I, I, I don't, I don't even know. I'd never- You start second-guessing.

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Yeah, I'd never done video. I'd always been a print person. Um, and I'd done podcasting, but like I'd never done video. I had no idea if this was something that I would be good at, that I wanted to do.

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So what I decided to do, I was... I have a policy of like even if it scares me, I try to say yes. Unless if there's a good reason to say no, I'll say no. I totally agree.

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I used to say yes to everything, and then I got like so overwhelmed and burned out. Um, so now it's kind of like if there's not a good reason to...

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If the only reason to say no is I'm anxious about it, that's not a good enough reason to say no. Um, but if like I feel like I'm overwhelmed, I will absolutely say no. Well, I think, I think...

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I, I, I forget who I learned this from, but somebody said like, uh, you know, every time you say yes to something, you're saying no to other things too. Yes. Which I think is like a good way to, to frame it.

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That's exactly it. Um, and I'm at a point in my career where I get a lot of offers, so I don't say yes to everything. But this is something... I was like, "This is a challenge." A huge thing.

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"This is something I've never done." Mm-hmm. "Let's, let's see how it goes." So I said, "Okay." And then I was like, one of the hardest parts of podcasting, and most of my podcasting has just been for fun.

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I've not really d- Well, so wait. So real quick, you've been doing this podcast, uh, what, what is it? Um, Desi Geek Girls. Desi Geek Girls, yeah. Since 2017. Yes. Oh my God. You've done 88 episodes.

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[laughs] Uh, y- and what, what I like about this too is like- I didn't realize it was that long. Well, you, yeah, i- so, so almost eight years. You don't do it every week. Sometimes it's like every month right now.

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In the beginning, I think it was every week. Um, I guess l- let's go, this is a tangent from the PBS thing, and then we'll go back to the PBS thing.

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So was that kind of your first like non-written thing that you were doing? Yes. Where you're... Okay. Where I was regularly doing something non-written, and I was really nervous about that too- Yeah...

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'cause I was like, I don't lo- I don't think any of us like the sound of our voice when we first- Yeah... start doing things like that. I was like- You gotta get over it. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, I, I, I...

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But it was an excuse to talk to my best friend, who sh- we're still best friends- Mm-hmm... um, on a regular basis about the things we love.

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Because while we talk about life and our work and stuff like that, you know, because we don't live in the same place, I have a kid. Like, it just, we're not talking on like the phone a lot.

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A lot of our talk is about- Yeah... texting. You create this really intentional hour. That's exactly it. Yeah.

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Uh, we created this time for us to talk about the things like the stuff we have that, in common that we love, and we only talk about what we love. We don't really go into cr- like negative criticism. Mm, yeah. Um,

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you know, that's just, that's what it was. And you know, we still do it sporadically. We're not as on regular of a schedule as we've both- Last time I guess... gotten more... Yep, as we've gotten more busy.

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Um, but that, it, and that, that experience actually, because I'm the one who edits it. Um, Preeti- Oh... my podcast partner, is the one who, um, she, uh, does all the like the show notes and stuff like that, and I edit.

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Oh. That's our, um- Yeah... division of labor there. Editing it is what got me used to listening to the sound of my voice. Oh.

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So I was like, okay, if that's the case, then I need to get used to, in a pretty quick manner, like my face being slung around on a thumbnail without cringing. Yeah.

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Being, being able to watch and kind of turn off that part of my brain that is like, "Ugh, I'm seeing myself on screen. Ugh, ugh."

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Well, I think there's another thing that like is like such a internet, you know, creating stuff for the internet, um, I don't know, rule or truism that I've learned is like, don't kill the part of yourself that's cringe.

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Kill the part of yourself that cringes. That's exactly it. It's like you just have to kill yourself. And this is my work, so I was just like, if I'm gonna be on video, I need to get used to seeing myself on video.

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Mm-hmm. So that's when I started, I was just like, okay. Uh, I'm, I'm not a huge consumer of video. Um- Oh, yeah. I'm of the era where I prefer the written word. Mm. That's how my brain works, but

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I was like, okay, let me try TikTok. I wasn't expecting anything of this. I didn't go into it being like, "Okay, I have to be successful."

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This was just something where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start doing this and see what happen, and see what happens, and it just- Yeah... like took off. Like, it just, it...

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My like, my first few videos did incredibly well, so I was like, okay, maybe there is something here. Maybe I do have an appeal on camera.

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So I started doing it more and more, and exactly, I killed the part of myself that cringed by just- Yeah.

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Once you've caught yourself on video enough, once you edit your own videos enough, you're just like, "Eh, this is, this is me. This is who I am. It's fine." Um, and so that's kind of, that's...

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And then so I did that for a year before I s- the PBS like shoots actually started- Yeah... which helped so much with like getting in there- Oh, wait, wait, wait.

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You were doing like your own TikToks before that started as like a warm-up? Okay. Exactly, because it was a year between... They sent me the offer, and I was like, okay, I need to get comfortable- Yeah...

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seeing myself on video before we actually started shooting. And that has helped so much I think, just doing that- Mm... even as a personal project, even if it hadn't been like a thing that I started doing professionally.

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Like, just to get myself used to my own face, my own voice on camera. Yeah.

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So when the PBS stuff started, I was more able to critique my performance, take notes in a way that didn't feel personal, in a way that didn't feel- Yeah... um- To produce yourself. Exactly. Yeah.

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But what that experience left me with is the thing that my husband has been like, [laughs] has been o- like not on my case, but like- [laughs]... saying for years where like- Yeah... "You need to do your own thing."

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Mm-hmm. He was like, "You pour yourself into these projects that are owned by other people, and which is great, but like at the end of the day, you don't own it, and you always- Yeah... end up getting burned."

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Because like the state of journalism right now, and the s- it's just, it's not, it's not great. It's hard. [laughs] It's frustrating. That's one way to put it, yeah. Yeah.

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Like every journalism like job I have thought about, I've like, I'll think of applying and g- going in-house and being like, "Oh, that's a dream job," and like I, there's mass layoffs at that publication- Mm-hmm...

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like six months later. That's always how it goes.Um, so after PBS, um, basically we decided to part ways. They wanted to take the show in a different direction, and I was just...

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I have a young child, and I was having to travel a lot, and, like, just- Yeah... I travel a lot for work, totally fine, but just the frequency of it wasn't working for me, so happy to part ways.

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But it taught me that, A, I actually do enjoy video, I do enjoy doing video, and B, that I was ready and at a point in my career where I think I had the experience and the platform and just the drive to- Mm-hmm...

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do it myself. Yeah. Well, wait, okay, I wanna... Let's, I wanna get a little pedantic for a second. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, uh, so the term creator in the internet sense, it...

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How do you define that term, and is it something you identify with? Um, I absolutely identify with it, both all the good, all the bad. Mm-hmm. [laughs] Like, it, there's a lot of good, there's a lot of bad. Yeah.

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And I identify with all of it. I do still see myself as a journalist, which a lot of creators- Yes... don't. A lot of creators, when they go creator, they, they lean into the influencer- Yeah...

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you know, label, which is totally fine, and I don't judge that at all. But for me, being able to report on space, I do feel like I need to, um, maintain independence. Like I need- Yeah... to, which is hard.

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[laughs] Well, what, what defines... So what defines a journalist? 'Cause, okay, so for context, like I've talked to some people who are like, come from a pure creator background, some who come from- Yeah...

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a journalist background. Um, I, uh... The, the one I published last week, this woman Caitlin Dewey, she's got this great newsletter. I think I would Gchat you if, if we were friends. Um, she has been a journalist.

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She's been in journalism a- about as long as you have, I think. Uh, but she, like, this year just, or like a year ago, decided to go all in on her newsletter. And she was like, "I really don't like the term creator.

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I think what I'm doing is very different. Um, I don't think, like, I'm a creator-journalist. I'm a journalist who happens to have a newsletter as a platform."

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And I've talked to other people who, like, come from a very similar background, and like, "Oh yeah, I'm a creator, creator-journalist." Um, so it's like- Yeah... I don't know.

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I, I think people have very different opinions on this. Yes. So yeah, so I guess how would you define a journalist? Do you even define it in opposition to a creator, or is it just like- I think-...

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nah, it's kind of the same, swimming in the same pool? I think it can... I, I think you can be both a journalist and a creator, but even if you kind of talk about newsy topics, that doesn't mean you're a journalist.

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I feel like- Yeah... being a journalist means I'm very conscious of sponsors, where my money comes from. I will not accept...

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I, you know, the, the reality of doing it independently means you either have to charge your subscribers- Yeah... or take sponsors or both. I am at a place where I do not wanna charge subscribers.

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Like, I just, I think people are a little bit tired of being nickel-and-dimed for every newsletter. Yeah. Um- You, you have done a, a Patreon in the past though, right? I do. I do have a Patreon- Yeah. Okay...

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because, um, but I don't gatekeep my content. Yeah. I have a Patreon in case people want to, but I- It's like a tip jar. Exactly. That's exactly what I look at it as.

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And it really does, and it helps so much with just, like, paying for newsletters costs, paying for...

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But I don't want to gatekeep the content because the entire point of my content to me is appealing to people who don't necessarily have an interest in space- Yeah... but want to be awed.

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They want, they wanna have that knowledge, and I think putting it behind a paywall kind of works against that. Like, I'm not gonna get- You're really into sharing knowledge. Exactly. You love to share knowledge.

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I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna get casual interest if it's behind a paywall. Like, that's- Yeah... that's just kind of my philosophy. So that means I have to accept money from sponsors to monetize the thing. Mm-hmm.

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I mean, and there's other, there's other sources. But then, but then it's like disclosing it. Like, 'cause to me too, like, when I, like, how

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I see the designation between, like, creator-journalist, journalist-creator, um, because some people maybe come from the creator background- Yeah... but then they actually are doing journalism. Yes.

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It's like, it's a rigor of, like, it's a rigor of, um, of reporting, of, like, facts, of disclosing your sources- Yes... of like, also the, the sponsorship thing too.

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Like, you can be sponsored, but you should disclose that you're sponsored- Yes... because obviously that might bring biases. Like, you know, this, like I try to bring a journalist approach here, but, like, this is...

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Beehiiv funds this whole thing, right? Yes. And I, I try to be a journalist, but, like, that's also the, the, the reality of it. Um- Yes. I don't know. That's exactly it. Yeah. And I...

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But, but part of the reason I do try and say I, I identify as a creator is because I think there's so much stigma around that word. Yeah. I think there's a lot of stigma, and I want to

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do what I can, 'cause I know I have a good reputation. I know- Yeah... people know that I have a good reputation, and I want to kind of help destigmatize it. Because, like, it is good. Like, creating stuff is good.

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And like- Yeah... it doesn't have to be bad. Like, I don't know. I just feel like- Well, wait, wait. So here's... My, the one, my last thing on this. I, I...

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A couple weeks ago, I've, I've been thinking about this question, like, for months. Yeah. So I was like, "Okay, I gotta write an essay about this, uh, for, for the newsletter instead of an interview."

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And where I landed...

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So my, like, basic umbrella definition is that a creator is just somebody who's creating content for the internet with the intention of reaching an audience beyond their, uh, real-life friends and family. Yes.

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You know, you can post to Instagram, but if it's, like, just for your friends and family, whatever, like, you're not a creator. Right. It's when you start in earnest creating beyond.

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But that's, like, on the surface what it is. But I think more, a little deeper, it's actually, like, a labor relationship.

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It's that you're y- y- you know, you are independent, but, like, your boss is actually, like, the audience.

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But also, if you're on, like, a revenue share platform like YouTube, you know, where it's AdSense, it's like YouTube is kind of your boss. Yeah. Like, you are working for them, uh, where it's like you're splitting...

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You're making the money; they're giving you the platform. You're splitting it. So I think, I don't know, it's, it's the making the content. Yeah. But then it's, it's really more poignantly it's the labor relationship.

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Yes. The bottom line is even if, like, Boeing sponsored my newsletter- Yeah... I would still write the same thing I would write. Like, but in, in so much of what I do, the appearance is what...

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Like, the appearance is what matters. Like- Yeah... I have toAnd it's not only about me knowing I'm not biased or... It's about my audience knowing it too. Mm-hmm. And which is why Boeing will never sponsor...

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You know, space companies will never be a sponsor because I have to be able to report on these things- Yeah... without any appearance of a conflict of interest. And so, like, I do...

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I, I think I do very much agree with that definition- Yeah... of creator. Well, so okay, so you've, you've held a lot of different types of roles. Like, now you're a creator.

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Uh, you've been, like, a, a contributing writer, a freelance writer. You've worked for, like, tech companies, media arm- experiment arms. Yep. You've been a copy editor.

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You, you've, you've held, like, basically kind of, like, every labor status a writer can have in the 21st century.

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Um, I'm curious if you think that there's one that's been, like, most favorable to you or even least favorable. Like, what- Yes... since you've experienced them all. I have two.

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Um, and both of them are working in newsrooms, funnily enough. [laughs] Um, uh, Engadget was the, is, was the turning point of my career. Um, working at Engadget was...

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I will never have enough good things to say- Yeah... about that experience. Like, it was transformative, um, for me as a writer, for my career. Um, I...

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Before that, I did, um, mostly, actually, most of my kind of, like, up and coming, like, s- first writing on the internet was, like, book reviewing, 'cause I was an- Yeah... avid reader. I started reviewing books.

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And so, like, that's where I was like, "Oh, I can write on the internet, but what do I wanna write about?" That's kind of where it... Like, what do I wanna write about?

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Do I wanna write about books for the rest of my life? And like, no, that was not what I wanted to do.

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And I've alway- I'd always have, had a huge interest in space, a lot of knowledge about it, and I was like, "Oh, like, I could write about this. I think I could do really well at it."

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But I didn't go to a journalism school. I didn't know how to be, like, a reporter. I knew how to write, and I knew how to- This is at, like, poli sci, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was poli sci and economics. And so, it...

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Like, I don't have that background. I don't know how to be a reporter. Yeah. I know how to write about things. I know how to research things, but how do I, like... And s- how do I work in a newsroom? Yeah.

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So Engadget, I had some... I'd written about space professionally at that point as one-offs, and I think done a good job. But- Like, just freelance writing. Yeah, just freelance. Yeah.

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But Engadget was where, like, I went to them and was like, "I don't have a lot of experience in this, but I think I could be good at this." I can do the work. Like, I, I'm, I'm the diamond. You just need a polish. Yes.

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[laughs] Like, take, take a chance on me- Yeah... and you won't regret it. And that's basically what I did, and they took the chance on me. And like- Mm... that taught me so much about writing concisely. Mm.

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Like, you know, I have... Writing about a topic, how to write about a topic, I didn't have the background. Or being edited, I imagine. Yes. Yeah. Like, so much about being edited, writing concisely. Um, like, my...

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If you, like, if you asked me now, fast-forwarding to Ad Astra, my one biggest weakness right now is I don't have an editor, and I need one. Yeah.

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And so that's, like, my next goal, to hire somebody to edit me, because I need one. And, and this, this experience taught me how much I need an editor, how much...

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How, what an editor can do, and how to, like, write, how to report, how to... Like, taught me so much. And then fast-forward from that, um, I was, last year, the s- a space editor at Inverse.

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It was a freelance position, but basically I did the opposite. I took people who are writing these 300 to 500 word news articles about space and edited those, and then that basically gave me the other perspective.

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Oh, yeah. Um, and it was a great experience. Um, again, really good people at Inverse. Um, and really just kind of was, like, the capstone on that kind of experience.

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Two different newsrooms, two different roles, but, like- Yeah... similar, a lot of connective threads that helped me understand the process of, like, writing- The full kind of nose-to-tail process- Exactly...

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of producing writing or words. Yes. Yeah. And both of them were, like, very important ex- Engadget, just much more transformative, 'cause I was there a lot longer, and that was, like, my first real, real journalism job.

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Like, it kind of set me off on this path. So, but- Okay, wait.

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So, so taking it back to video, um, again, like, speaking of, like, you know, the different stages of the process, I imagine there was a pretty, a relatively sizable team for, for the PB- for PBS' Far Out.

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Uh, you know, there's, there's the reporting. Maybe, maybe that's just you. Maybe there's other people researching. I don't know. There's custom animations. There's music. It's a, it's a team. Huge team. And now I...

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It sounds like it's kind of just you on, on the YouTube. So, like, how about that, like, figuring out, like, okay, you know, I know how to write, but, like, what are all the things that go into producing YouTube videos?

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Tell me about, like, figuring that out. Yeah.

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'Cause it seems like pretty quickly you just went from, like, you know, doing it for the first time to, like, as a, as just a, a writer and host n- to now, like, the writer, producer, the host, the everything. Yes.

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I have no help. Zero. Like, I don't- Okay... I don't hire out my editing. I don't... Like I said, I didn't, I have- You have dreams of doing it, but not now. Yes, I would love...

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Like, the, the video editing is the thing that takes the longest, and so that's something I would love to hire out at some point. Mm.

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But I'm also very, very aware of YouTube channels that grow, hire everything out, and then the algorithm changes, and overnight- Yeah... they've lost most of their revenue. Like, so I'm very careful about that.

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And, like, I'm also at a stage where I'm still very much in the growth process. I'm still very new at this. Um- You've been doing it in earnest for just under a year, really.

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I think the YouTube- Um, yes, just under a year... is about two years old. But yeah. V- Exactly. So YouTube channel, I just started dabbling the same way I did on TikTok. Yeah.

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Didn't expect it to go anywhere, just see what would happen last year. January is when I decided to be like, "Okay, this is gonna be it. YouTube and newsletter, I'm gonna do this. I'm putting everything into it."

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So I was one of those kids in high school who, um, I was not, like, in the AV club, but I was AV club adjacent. So, like, I learned- Yeah, they're all your friends. Yeah.

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So, like, I knew how to edit video or, like, I learned in high school basically what a video edit program looks like, how to edit video. The very, very basics. Like, what...

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Basically, just, like, what a timeline looks like, dragging stuff. Like-I learned that... So I had that in the back of my head when I went into this. Um, and I started small,

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but I'm also of a, a person who f- believes firmly in paying for a program when- Mm... it's good. Like, I don't wanna deal with ads, I don't wanna deal with like- Yeah...

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if I find something I like, I will just pay the subscription fee and, you know, deal with- Participate. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so, um, I very quickly just was like, "I'm gonna need a photo...

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I'm gonna need, like, a thumbnail image editor. I'm gonna need, um, a... something where I can edit on my phone for vertical." Mm-hmm. I don't do vertical on my phone anymore, but I started out that way. Oh, okay.

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Um- Kept it as a desktop app. Yeah. Um, and then I'm gonna need, um... And that- that- that's actually very interesting, because if I was to do it now, I'd do it different. But now- Uh-huh...

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I'm kind of, I'm locked into Adobe because I've just been- Oh... using it for so long.

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I do Premiere, Premiere Rush on the phone, Adobe Express, Premiere Rush and Adobe Express for vertical video, and then Photoshop for thumbnails. Yeah. If I could do it again, though, the...

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Like, people always ask me, I'm like, "If I could do it again, I would just do CapCut." Oh, really? Huh. It's easier.

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A lot le- I feel like it's a lot less complicated for what I need, um, because I'm not doing multiple camera angles, I'm not doing- Yeah... like, I'm not doing...

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Like, my needs are very simple, and Adobe's very expensive. Yeah. But because it just kind of does everything I want, and like, I don't...

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I'm happy with it, and like, my process is very streamlined at this point, and I don't have the- It's hard to get ya. Yeah. I don't have the energy to, like, completely upend it to- Mm-hmm...

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start something, you know, to start somewhere else. But if I was to do it again, I would start on CapCut. Um, but so yeah. Big tip for those listening. Yes. I would, I would... It's... CapCut's easy.

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[laughs] It starts, you know, free, and it's, like, you can do it on your phone. They have a desktop app. Like, I would- Yeah... you know. But- Is it...

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So, well, so the, the, figuring out, like, these challenges, is it m- is it much different for you than, like, you know, figuring out, like, "Oh, how do I write this para- like, how do I write the lead, the headline for this article?"

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Like, is it, is it just kinda the same thing but, like, a different medium? I don't know. It is different in that, like, I don't think about writing. Yeah. I write. I don't think.

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Like, I know, like, some people- Oh, yeah, I can tell. You're so prolific... compose in their head and they think about an article. I just, like, sit down and write. And, like, my...

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And like, people will have, like, a long research process where they, like, research individual things and, like, put it all together and, like, have a res- I, I'm just like, okay, like, I don't know.

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Like, I need to talk about X. I think I have enough general knowledge. It's funny. Yeah. I'm thinking right now about, like, a, uh, uh, something I just wrote yesterday.

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It's, like, a 3,500-word script, which is gonna be, like, my longest video ever- [laughs]... on, um, SpaceX's Starship's, uh- Oh... recent flight. And I'm focusing on, like- Yeah, that's the chopstick landing, right?

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I'm focusing in on that, just that. Because, like- Yeah... I'm like, everybody's talked about the flight itself, the overall of the flight. Here are the different parts.

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But there's, like, 30 seconds of that flight that is mind-blowing. Mm. And there's a lot happening. And so I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna zero in on that.

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And while I'm doing it, you know, I have a lot of questions, a lot of research I need to talk. But so, like, I don't... This is part of why I haven't been able to hire a newsletter editor yet. I don't plan things out.

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Yeah. I just get to the question, and then I deal with that question at that time when I'm writing.

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Um, and then, you know, say, "Okay, email sent to, you know, XYZ rocket engineer about X," and then I just start the next paragraph. I don't- Yeah. So- I know, I know what you mean.

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Like, even, like, for me, like, I have, I have a, a producer I work with for, for the podcast, and I have, um, a, a designer I work with on, like, visuals and stuff, but when...

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A- and I've got another person who helps with social media, and, like, sometimes, like, cleaning up transcripts.

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Um, but I, when I think of, like, how do I break apart, like, the pieces of this and, like, make it s- like, make it more efficient for me, it's like anything...

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It's almost like it would only make it less efficient for me because it's all just, like, you know, the way I work, it's not ordered. I don't know. Yes. I think that's a big challenge. It's just, I do it.

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I don't think about it. Yeah. I just do it. And so, yeah, it's a huge challenge to bring other... That's actually exactly my problem.

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It's a huge challenge to bring other people into that, because it's- To break yourself into pieces. It feels so haphazard. Like, when I explain it, it's so haphazard, but it's just very r- like, I just have a...

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I just do it. Yeah. Like, I don't know. And so in some ways, like, so learning...

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I kind of think of learning to use, like, Premiere, learning to edit video, learning to do those things, uh, like, akin to my [laughs] never-ending quest for ch- between changing productivity software [laughs] and writing software.

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[laughs] I literally just switched to Obsidian yesterday. And- Oh, I don't even know what's that one, what that one is. Like, it's, like, an open source one that I've heard a lot about. Yeah. I was using Bear before.

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Mm-hmm. No problems with Bear. Bear is lovely and beautiful. Before that, I was using Ulysses. Again- Mm-hmm... no problems with Ulysses. It's lovely. It does everything I need. But, like, it's just, like, it's the joke.

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I, like, my joke is, like, I just, I need to switch software to feel something. Like- Yeah. [laughs] I know what you mean, yeah. And, like, same thing with To Do.

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Although, the To Do List one is different, because, like, none of them exactly kno- do what I need to do. I used to, I used to do Notion, like- Yes...

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uh, for everything, but now I, like, I just, I just have, I just have a notebook here. Yeah. And I just, like, every week I'll, like, write down my tasks for each day.

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And, like, it's a way of, like, making sure I don't get, like, so many tasks and subtasks, et cetera. Yeah.

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And then I, like, I write them down in pen, and then I'll, like, write, like, the, the, the numbers next to them in the order of that I wanna do 'em in.

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But I've, like, I've been doing this now for, for all of 2024 after, like, for a couple years before I was in Notion, and I love it. Does it work? Okay. It's, it works for me to just keep simple. Yeah. Yes. So.

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That's my problem. Like, I'm probably going to... Right now I'm using Asana. Before that I used Notion. Mm. But Notion was just too clunky. Like- Yeah, and it's just, it, it, there's too many options. That's exactly it.

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You can do everything forever. It's- Yeah... but it's not, like, when it comes to just, like, project management, it's not, like, simple. Yeah. And then, you know, at some point, probably soon, I'm gonna switch again.

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But, like, I also- [laughs] I'm like, I need to have some sort of editorial calendar so, like- Mm... I can keep track of, like, when stuff is sponsor... So anyway, yeah. I, that's the hard part.

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I actually do, like, Notion for that too. [laughs] That's the mess. Yes. No, and I... That's the thing Notion was really good for, for keeping track- Yeah... of stuff like that.

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So, um, but I see-The, um, I see it as- Wait, actually, real quick question, quick question. So s-speaking of keeping track of everything, um, I'm- I wanna get a grasp on everything you're doing at the moment.

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So you're doing Ad Astra, you're doing Desi Geek Girls. Yes. Uh, I think you're still freelancing a little bit. What is everything you're doing right now? So yes, that's basically most of it. Um- Mm-hmm...

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Ad Astra is, like, the m- that's the thing. Okay. When people ask me what I do, that's the thing. That, and that is YouTube, newsletter, and vertical video.

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Vertical video is, like, the third tier though, so like some video- Yeah. That's right... some weeks I get four done, some weeks I get none done, and i-I don't think of it as a big deal either way.

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Um, Desi Geek Girls' still ongoing, just, you know, but that's not a revenue generating project- Yeah... just, like, you know, for fun. That's like your passion fun. Right. Um, I still freelance regularly.

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I do space news for Fast Company and- Mm... other places. That's, um, I, I, I still write for places that kind of let me do what I want and say what I... You know?

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Like, just kind of, they trust me to get the job done- Yeah... and they don't, like, have to manage me a lot. Like- Places you've had, like, relationships with for a long time. Exactly. Yeah.

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So, um, and I love, I really do, I lo- I still love doing that. Like, just the quick hits. Um- Mm-hmm... but a lot of what I, like... And so that's, that's pretty much everything I think right now.

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Um, a lot of what I'm spending my time on actually is just figuring out what and how I wanna cover things. Like, at the- Oh, yeah...

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at, at the beginning of the year, I was feeling the pressure to cover every single, every single s- space thing. Yeah. And I quickly realized that that's not possible as a one person. Well, wait. Okay, wait.

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I would love to, to walk through the, like- Okay... basically your production process from, like, coming up with that idea, through writing the video script, to, like, turning it into a newsletter.

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Let's say, I don't know, maybe you have a better example in mind, but one I watched last night that I liked was, uh, Can Boeing Starliner Astronauts Vote from the ISS? Yes, that was a fun one.

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So what's, like, the soup to nuts on that? That was, um... So a lot, I get actually a lot of my ideas on social media.

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Um, I take a news story, I talk about it on, like, Blue Sky is ma- um, like, Blue Sky has just been growing, has been really good for this. Yeah. I do Mastodon as well though.

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I'll basically say, like, "Here's a thing that's going on." And then, like, I'll, I'll, I'll talk about it, or I'll say, like, "This is what I think is cool about it," and I'll- Mm...

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I'll wait and just see what people say. I'll just have the discussion with people. Yeah. And I will also say, this doesn't work for everybody, because I love social media. Yeah. I love...

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I actually really enjoy being on these platforms. This is not a thing I have to do. I like talking to people about this stuff. You're a very social person. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I do what I do. Um,

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so that's where I start, and then I'll see what people have to say about it. And this has been more and more... I didn't start out doing this. Like, when I started- Yeah...

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in January, I just looked at it and I, it was my opinion and nothing else. Here's my angle. Yeah. Now I look at, what are other people asking about this? What questions... I know a lot about this already.

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What questions do people who don't have, who don't know a lot about this- Who aren't so immersed in space world... right. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, and that's what I used for my Starship video as well.

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The most questions I got was on that catch, and I was like, "Okay," like, zero in on the one thing people are asking about.

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So Boeing Starliner w- was the bane of my existence, and also the gift that kept on giving- [laughs]...

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in terms of, like, because I just became such an expert on it 'cause I kept going- There's a lot of, uh, videos about it. [laughs] Yeah. I kept on going.

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I, I just went in deep on one mission, and just kept, as the n- new stuff kept coming up and hitting the headlines more and more, like, I had, you know, I already knew it, so it was very easy for me to just come back and keep doing.

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Mm-hmm. Um, but the one, that was the one question I... And you know, it wasn't something that really occurred to me, um, because I do know that Starliner Astra... I do know that generally astronauts can vote on the ISS.

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Like, that's something- Yeah... I've known. But when people started asking, like, i- like, can people vote on the I- like, vote on the ISS, will they be able to vote? I'm like, "Oh, yeah," and then I'm like, "Well,

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how actually does that work?" Yeah. Like, and so I did just some very basic research on it, and then I was like, oh, they have to submit a card in advance. Like, did... I don't know that they...

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You know- But 'cause they've been, they're up there for extra time, right? Yeah. Exactly.

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So, like, they have to submit a card before they leave, but they were only expecting to be up there for one or two weeks in June, and they weren't expecting to still be there in November. So basically, I, um...

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NASA is really, really, really helpful. Like, they're, they're, they're- Oh, in terms of, like, information and whatnot? Yes. Mm-hmm.

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And like, uh, I am fortunate in that I have, they generally, NASA press people know who I am. Do you have, do you have, like, a list of contacts there and who are, like, you- you're always, you know- Yeah...

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they know you. They're like, "Hey." Like, yes. [laughs] And, like, they know me, and they know that despite the fact that I'm doing an independent newsletter- Mm...

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and I don't have necessarily the, the publication name- Institutional... behind me- Yeah... they know that I'm not writing... You know, they know who I am. And so that- They know you have integrity. Exactly.

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And so I- Yeah... I get quick responses and well-researched responses. It's, it's actually, I'm, I'm very grateful. But so basically I sent this email.

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I got a response a few, you know, days later on the ins and outs of it, and I was like, "Okay, I can structure a whole thing around this-" Yeah... "because there have been enough questions."

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So, like, for that video, I waited until I had the response from NASA to see if there was anything even there. Mm. Like, is this enough to do? Because for YouTube- Yeah... that one I don't think...

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I think that one's only like five minutes long. But generally for YouTube, the thing I learned very quickly is you, once I got into the revenue program, is that- Mm...

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you wanna have a video that's about eight minutes long, because then you hit- Hit two ads... two, you get two ads. Yeah. And you just maximize revenue.

238
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And so when I try to think of topics, I try to think of things that will be a bit bigger, because at the beginning I just did these, like, quick two or three minute videos, which are great, but YouTube audience is looking for something a little different first of all.

239
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Yeah. They want longer videos. And then second, for the revenue share, you want a longer video. That one's shorter, but generally I try to hit at least eight minutes.

240
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You need, like, you want something that somebody can settle in for one or- Yes... one or two videos on their lunch break while- Exactly... they're, without touching their screen. That's exactly it.

241
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And, like, learning about YouTube viewers' habits has been a big part- Mm... of this journey. Mm-hmm. Um, what they like, what-What types of videos,

242
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what top- topics do well, what topics I wanna avoid, that sort of thing. Yeah. Um, but then, so then I sat down, I wrote the script, like I told you, just kind of...

243
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I sat down, started writing, like, just started writing and then researched where I needed to. And then basically, I don't plan... I'm still at a point where I'm not planning ahead in any significant way- Yeah...

244
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beyond, like, here's a launch date, I'm probably gonna wanna do something around that launch date. Like, here's the days I probably wanna do something. Yeah. Like, I know generally, like, I know.

245
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But, like, so much comes up, like, so much comes up at the last minute in space that it's very hard to have, like, an editorial calendar planned weeks ahead. Like, usually I'm just kind of seeing what comes up.

246
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So, like- Mm-hmm... usually I try to have a finalized script by the end of the day Tuesday so I can film and edit on Wednesday, and then I like to put the video out Thursday evening. Yeah.

247
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Unless it's more timely, then I'm, you know... But, like, I'm generally,

248
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that's generally my, um- Well, and then, and then so then the next day, uh, uh, maybe a lot of people do this and I hadn't ever seen it before, but I hadn't seen this before.

249
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So the next day you put the newsletter out- Yeah... which is just the script, but I mean, not like, not, it's not like you, like, just copy, paste, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

250
00:37:43.992 --> 00:37:51.932
You, you, you add in links and you put in images. And, like, r- uh, reading the newsletter first, I, I, 'cause I read some of those before I watched the video, I was like, "Oh, this is good."

251
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And then I watched the video, I was like, "Wait." The exact- It's, it's the same thing. It's literally... And that's what people, I think, don't realize. So it is such a low lift. Yeah. The newsletter is...

252
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Because I've already written the script. So basically when I started this, my husband is, like, he was a big helper in terms- Mm... of helping me figure all this out, and he is, like, a very big YouTube watcher.

253
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So he- Many such cases when I talk to people for this, it's like, "Oh, my partner, like, uh, is-" Yes... "like, kind of the invisible hand here too." [laughs] Yes. Oh, no. And he is, like, he, he is...

254
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The, the deal we made and that we still have- Yeah... is he moderates my YouTube comments. Mm. 'Cause, like, I was like, that's the one thing I don't- Don't touch... necessarily wanna touch.

255
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I don't wanna be the first eyes on it. Um, I do go through them, but, like, he has the first eye on it. Um- That's healthy. Yeah. [laughs] I was like, that's, that's the distance I need from, you know, this project.

256
00:38:40.012 --> 00:38:51.782
Yeah. But, um, yeah, no. So, like, when I first started, you know, I didn't actually envision the newsletter when I first started. It was just YouTube and then a lot of the people who followed me through...

257
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I'm lucky to have people who followed me through, like, my little different projects. Like- Yeah... you know, they started following me when I reviewed books, and then they were interested, you know?

258
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Like a decade plus, yeah. Yes. Like, they've, they've, they've been following me for a long time. And so they were all like, "Love the video, but we don't love video generally." Yeah.

259
00:39:10.062 --> 00:39:21.542
"Do you have plans-" We like to read. We followed you for reading. Exactly. Yeah. "Do you have plans to publish this anywhere?" And I was like, "Okay, that's a good question." And so I started... I, I experimented.

260
00:39:21.612 --> 00:39:36.312
I started out putting it behind a Patreon paywall. Mm. It worked sort of well. But at the end of the day, for me, also, having a written alternative is about accessibility. Um- Yeah... you know, like, people who don't...

261
00:39:36.332 --> 00:39:47.582
Like, I have s- like, I have something called misophonia, whereas, like, unexpected video noises, like, like, unexpected noises- Yeah... like, I find them overwhelming. And I just, I find having a, like, that's a good,

262
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it's a good... At, at the beginning I just did it because I was like, I don't wanna gatekeep accessibility. Yeah. Now I realize that expands my audience, the potential for my audience so much.

263
00:39:57.612 --> 00:40:09.362
Because a lot of older people don't want video. A lot of younger people do. Yeah, they just want their inbox. Yeah. And so, and a lot of people who started out as newsletter subscribers now watch the videos. Uh-huh.

264
00:40:09.642 --> 00:40:18.932
And so, like, it is, it's really interesting, been interesting to see, like, who clicks on the links, like, what is going on there. But yeah, it is, like, a incredibly low lift. Literally- Yeah...

265
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after I publish the video, usually... So I usually send out the newsletter at 11:00 AM the day after the video's published, um, 11:00 AM Eastern. And- Yeah...

266
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literally it's just copying and pasting the script, going through, cleaning it up.

267
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A lot of times, like, if I'm, like, specifically talking about what's on screen, I'm gonna have to change, like, if I'm narrating through, like, a live- Mm-hmm...

268
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like, like, a s- like- If you're pointing to, like, a map. Exactly. Like, I'm gonna have to... So I do, I do significant editing on the newsletter itself to make sure it makes sense.

269
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Um, and then, like, do screen grabs or, like, photos, and I try to format it nicely. The vid- the script is also...

270
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Part of the reason, actually, the other reason I started doing the script is I wanted to be able to provide my sources, and YouTube, the, the, the show notes box doesn't really, like, the com- Yeah...

271
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like, it doesn't, the description box isn't really, it's not a really great way to do that. Yeah.

272
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So this provides me a way to just, like, link throughout the newsletter to my sources, because I think that's really important to me. Yeah.

273
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I want people to be able to go pull the FAA filing that I used so they can understand what I'm saying. Um, because I, I want people to be able to do that. I think that's great. And so- Yeah...

274
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um, that's a big part of the newsletter for me. And so just, like, going and adding those links, um, which the, like, for me, the Arc Browser has been- Mm...

275
00:41:39.582 --> 00:41:48.292
like, revolutionary to be able to- That's another one of these productivity tools I just haven't gotten around to yet. Oh my God, I love it because of the, like, design and the way, like, the spaces are done.

276
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I can, like, just like- Yeah... throw all the links up there and then go back when it's time for the newsletter and then find them and then just link them quickly. Um, I love it. I gotta try it. Oh my God, you will.

277
00:41:58.682 --> 00:42:04.592
Um, okay, wait. Real quick, I wanna ask about your relationship to your audience. You were kind of, uh, referring to it a little earlier, people who've been following you for years.

278
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Um, you were saying you, you know, you love being on social media. You've got 25,000 followers on Twitter, 8,000 on Instagram. Um, you know, you're saying Bluesky, Mastodon.

279
00:42:12.772 --> 00:42:23.352
I didn't, I didn't check their admit- admit- admittedly. Uh, but yeah, what is your relationship to your audience? And maybe the question is, like, audiences- Yeah... 'cause really it's changed.

280
00:42:23.452 --> 00:42:28.592
People have come to you at different times in your career for different things, and even just, like, you know, newsletter versus YouTube.

281
00:42:28.772 --> 00:42:41.036
Uh, yeah, relationship with your audiences.Um, so it, it is, it does vary by platform. Um, like Blue Sky is you're gonna get all, everything. You're gonna get the parenting stuff. I have a five-year-old. Um- Yeah...

282
00:42:41.096 --> 00:42:50.915
you're gonna get everything 'cause that's just kind of like my s- dream, um... That's the place, that's the new Twitter for me, like, basically. Uh, Mastodon is just space. Like, I only talk about space.

283
00:42:50.956 --> 00:43:01.816
I don't, it's very subject oriented. Um, Blue Sky I do talk about space a lot, it's just like- Yeah... that's m- you get more of me. Um, like Instagram I have never cracked the code on.

284
00:43:02.016 --> 00:43:09.596
I am convinced I never will be able to, so Instagram is where, like, if you wanna see what I'm eating for lunch- Yeah... in my stories, that's where you go.

285
00:43:09.656 --> 00:43:16.296
'Cause, like, that's like- It seems very, yeah, just like personal, family- I don't care... yes. Yeah, because I just- Yeah... don't care about- I feel the only way to crack that-... building a platform...

286
00:43:16.316 --> 00:43:23.806
these days is you have to just be doing, like, super engaging reels that are, like, so studied. That's exactly, and I just don't have the time. Like, Instagram- Yeah...

287
00:43:23.806 --> 00:43:34.476
is n- I think for Instagram, if you wanna succeed at Instagram it has to be your primary focus- Mm-hmm... and it's just not that important to me. So, like I do publish on there, but I'm just not...

288
00:43:35.456 --> 00:43:44.826
It's less of a word- Yes... platform for you. Yeah. But really the text, because text is close to my heart, because I'm a writer, um, you know, the text based platforms are where I spend the most of my time. Yeah.

289
00:43:44.836 --> 00:43:52.286
But what I like to think is, and I hope, I think it shows through. People have told me it does. I'm the same person wherever you pick me. Okay, you can talk then.

290
00:43:52.286 --> 00:44:02.916
If you talk to me on YouTube, if you talk to me on Mastodon, if you talk to me on- Yeah... Blue Sky, it's the same personality. It's the same... Like, I don't have personas. I don't have a s- online persona.

291
00:44:02.936 --> 00:44:11.986
The person you talk to on Mastodon is the same person you run into in the grocery store. Like, and it all, I think it all very much shows through. But like- Yeah...

292
00:44:11.986 --> 00:44:23.836
I do what I do for myself at this point, not my audience. Like, that's a big thing that I had to learn, especially learning YouTube, where some of the topics closest to my heart crashed and burned for whatever reason.

293
00:44:24.136 --> 00:44:33.646
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, whether it's the way I presented it, whether it's, you know, like... 'Cause, like, YouTube script writing is very, it's a, it's an art and it's something- Yeah... I'm still learning, frankly.

294
00:44:33.836 --> 00:44:42.316
Um, and, uh, you know, there's things that somebody, like, the... And like I've watched a lot of, like, Hank Green's stuff- Mm... um, as a science communicator.

295
00:44:42.746 --> 00:44:50.656
Um, there's a lot of stuff he can get away with that I cannot for various reasons in terms of people are, well, I'm new. People aren't willing to give me- Yeah... as much leeway.

296
00:44:50.736 --> 00:44:57.456
Um, I'm a woman of color talking about this. Yeah. Um, you know, there's a lot of stuff. So it's like learning. There's a huge learning process. But that being...

297
00:44:57.556 --> 00:45:08.416
So I have learned that I do the topics I do because they interest me. I'm not- Yeah. When I first started, like, I, I, like we talked about before, I felt the need to hit every big space thing.

298
00:45:08.876 --> 00:45:20.776
The bottom line is I have a lot of... Like, for example, SpaceX is a topic that always does well on YouTube. Yeah. Always. Um, always. Just, but I like SpaceX. I have a lot of respect for what they do.

299
00:45:20.856 --> 00:45:30.936
I have a lot of- Yeah... issues with what they do. Like, I am, I'm not a fangirl. You're not gonna find me f- like fangirling over them, but I also have- Yeah... like res- like that, that booster landing was amazing.

300
00:45:31.006 --> 00:45:42.736
Yeah. That was an amazing accomplishment and I have a lot of respect for that. I have a lot of respect for the engineers who work there. Yeah. So, um, like I, I don't actually need to hit every flight.

301
00:45:42.746 --> 00:45:51.976
Like, I don't n- Yeah... like I don't need to do that, and I was feeling like I had to for the audience and for, like, to make myself, like, to make my reputation.

302
00:45:52.036 --> 00:45:56.436
Like, everybody on YouTube does this, I need to be doing it too. Like, no, I don't.

303
00:45:56.526 --> 00:46:09.336
And it, like, it's killing me to have that frequency of I would rather pick, like, for example, the Bo- Boeing Starliner like we talked about, one interesting mission, and go in depth on that over multiple videos- Mm-hmm...

304
00:46:09.346 --> 00:46:17.276
than just, like, hit every space thing that comes out. Oh, wait. There's, there's one thing. I don't know, there's this older issue I've done of Career Spotlight. It was one of the first ones I did.

305
00:46:17.356 --> 00:46:20.036
I interviewed this guy, Andrew Huang, he's a big music YouTuber.

306
00:46:20.596 --> 00:46:31.116
Um, and he had, he has his, like, framework for deciding what to work on where, like, there was like an 18-month period where he decided he, he'd gotten to like 300,000, uh, subscribers and he was like, "I gotta go all in.

307
00:46:31.216 --> 00:46:36.916
Like, I'm gonna pr- do every, like, every Tuesday, every Thursday, or every Monday, every Thursday I'm gonna get a video out."

308
00:46:36.956 --> 00:46:43.416
And so he has this kind of like, you know, like Ikigai, like the Japanese concept of, like, finding- Yeah. Yes... yeah. He kind of had an adapted version of that.

309
00:46:43.476 --> 00:46:46.816
So, like, he had like a huge spreadsheet with, like, hundreds of ideas he's always adding to.

310
00:46:47.056 --> 00:46:54.936
But his, like, framework for deciding what to work on, which I, I had to bring it up 'cause what you're talking about reminded me of it, is like, it's basically the same as Ikigai but there's, like, I think one difference or so.

311
00:46:54.996 --> 00:47:02.076
Anyways, there's what I want to do, uh, what I'm good at, what's trending, what's worked well before, and what makes money. Yeah. And he's like, I just want...

312
00:47:02.326 --> 00:47:10.236
I- ideally you hit all five, but you have to hit all four, and if it doesn't hit all four you don't work on it. Yes. So it's like you're kind of r- in the process of- I'm-... like developing that sense.

313
00:47:10.296 --> 00:47:16.196
That's exactly it. I'm in the process of- Yeah... figuring it out. And I don't mind doing something because, like, I know it'll do well.

314
00:47:16.256 --> 00:47:23.716
Like, that's okay, but I want to h- I wanna, like, at the end of the day- It has to be somebody else too... it has to be... Like, I have to be passionate about it. Yeah. I have to be interested in it.

315
00:47:24.216 --> 00:47:38.356
Like, I'm, like, in the end of the day, that's what, that's what matters to me. And, like, process, or like figuring that out, and it's also, like, accepting early that I'm n- I don't know that I'm ever going to be

316
00:47:39.276 --> 00:47:42.816
a creator on YouTube that has, like, a million followers.

317
00:47:42.856 --> 00:47:50.776
Like, and- Well, okay, so I'm looking at your YouTube channel right now, and, uh, I actually wanna get back into what you were just saying a second, but the, your most popular video, uh, has 163,000 views.

318
00:47:50.876 --> 00:47:59.796
It- Does it really?... is double of the second video next. Is that [laughs]... Wow. And it's, uh, so it's seven months ago, Intuitive Machines- Yes... lands on the Moon sideways. Yes. Did you expect this to be, like...

319
00:48:00.976 --> 00:48:15.496
Why do you think it was? No. Um, I think because, uh, it was a small commercial Moon landing, part of NASA's CLPS program for the Artemis mission, and nobody... I genuinely feel like people weren't paying attention.

320
00:48:15.965 --> 00:48:23.846
Yeah. Um, NASA, for, I, I have a lot of respect for NASA. They have not done a good job at publicizing, for whatever reason, the Artemis program. Mm.

321
00:48:23.856 --> 00:48:34.436
The number of people I have to tell, like, "No, NASA's handing over low Earth orbit to commercial companies so they can go back to the Moon and establish a base," and people are like, "Wait, what?"

322
00:48:34.676 --> 00:48:40.616
And I'm like- Well, as somebody, like, I'm not, I don't follow space. It's, it's n- just, I, you know, I got too many things I already follow. It's not one, not one of the things I follow.

323
00:48:41.076 --> 00:48:49.224
I-The news I get, the news that bubbles up to me is basically just SpaceX, and not even like- Yeah... Blue Ori- I forgot Blue Origin even exists. Yeah. I don't even know if they still do stuff.

324
00:48:49.264 --> 00:48:58.144
But it's just SpaceX because, I mean, it's, you know, the, the Elon Musk, like, whole like bubble with that. And just, they're flashy. Yeah. They're doing really cool things at a time where it feels like no one else is.

325
00:48:58.244 --> 00:49:08.904
So like that just chokes like- Yeah... the, the like, you know, the little bit of this niche that like bubbles up to the general public, me, who doesn't follow space. It's like that just dominates that, right? Yes.

326
00:49:08.924 --> 00:49:18.084
And- And like I think als- I think, um, it, and it kinda goes back to actually what we were talking about a few minutes ago about like I want to cover the things that people necessarily...

327
00:49:18.364 --> 00:49:29.164
Maybe they are covering 'em, but like it's just, it's not... That was something that people weren't talking about, and then- Yeah... all of a sudden everybody was talking about it.

328
00:49:29.204 --> 00:49:38.124
And it's like looking at what's happening, to me that was a huge thing. It was a huge deal. It was such a cool mission, so interesting, and it's like that sort of thing.

329
00:49:38.164 --> 00:49:48.844
Like nobody was talking about Boeing Starliner, and then everybody was talking about Boeing Starliner. Mm-hmm. And it's like everybody's talking about SpaceX all the time, so what can I do that is not that?

330
00:49:48.864 --> 00:49:57.614
And so- [laughs]... like that's part of why. Like I do talk about SpaceX. Like I have- Yeah... a 20 minute video- But again-... going up... you're finding the angle that like you don't- Exactly... see out there. Exactly.

331
00:49:57.704 --> 00:50:07.344
Finding the angle that maybe... And because of that, like that's, and that's, this is exactly like tying back to what I was saying. I'm never gonna be, I don't think, maybe I will, I'm- Mm-hmm...

332
00:50:07.404 --> 00:50:17.244
don't think I'll ever be the person with like a million YouTube followers- Yeah... because I'm not chasing the big stor- necessarily chasing the big stories that other people deem are big.

333
00:50:17.304 --> 00:50:24.274
These are the things that I think are important. Yeah. Um, but I'm not going to... I also don't have a strong point of view about SpaceX. Like in terms- Mm...

334
00:50:24.274 --> 00:50:34.684
of, like I have, I think, a rational point of view [laughs] about SpaceX that is a good point of view to have, but that's not the point of view that's going to- Yeah. I'm not ranting about them.

335
00:50:34.744 --> 00:50:40.804
I'm not raving about them. No, which is that's what's gonna get the views. Which is what- But wait... both of those will get the views. I wanna talk about the goals. So y- the million views thing.

336
00:50:40.824 --> 00:50:48.704
So before, or million subscribers. Before we talk about that, I think like I wanna, we haven't talked about this, about, we have not talked about this at all really, like the financial side of things. Yeah.

337
00:50:48.744 --> 00:50:58.094
The viability- [laughs]... pieces of business. Yes. So I, I under- I, I see some ads in the newsletter. I didn't necessarily see ads outside of YouTube AdSense in the videos. Yeah.

338
00:50:58.184 --> 00:51:03.594
Um, and I'm not really sure how much it like costs you to produce a given video outside of your time spent. Yes.

339
00:51:03.644 --> 00:51:11.684
So like let's, tell me about the, the, the financial side of the busi- the feasibility of the business, how you're making this work. Ha ha. [laughs] That's a great question.

340
00:51:11.884 --> 00:51:17.853
So I did not, I went into this expecting to make no money for the first two years. Yeah. I s- I, I was just like- For the first two years...

341
00:51:17.853 --> 00:51:26.144
I, for the first two years, I have a, my husband, um, we are lucky enough to where we're comfortable without me making- Yeah... an income at all. And you do have the freelance as well.

342
00:51:26.204 --> 00:51:38.304
I have the freelance to support it, and, um, I have health insurance, which is like anybody, anybody, anytime anybody asks me how I do what I do, I, like how I freelance, how I deal with the- Yeah...

343
00:51:38.384 --> 00:51:46.834
uncertainty, I say I have a partner who, um, brings in a steady income and has- Yeah... health insurance. And honestly, that's how I'm able to do it. And I don't- Yeah...

344
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I don't want there to be- The realities of living in America. That's exactly it.

345
00:51:49.684 --> 00:52:00.844
And like I feel like there are too many people who don't talk about that part of it, and it's like I am lucky and privileged because I have that. Yeah. So, um, I did not expect to make any money.

346
00:52:00.924 --> 00:52:10.594
Like I expected to be in the hole deeply for two years while I'm building this up, and my view was, because like it's a, it's like starting a small business. And for- It is. It's like being an artist...

347
00:52:10.604 --> 00:52:20.064
small businesses don't make money usually for the first three years. So I was like, if at two years I'm still making no money and it's going really badly, because also

348
00:52:21.344 --> 00:52:30.564
I expected it to take a very long time for me to get into YouTube's a- like revenue. I did not expect to have a video go viral. Yeah. I thought I was- Well, even like I was, I was looking at Social Blade.

349
00:52:30.624 --> 00:52:38.274
They like track, you know, YouTube analytics and stuff, and I think in like your first month or two you, you had already hit like 4,000 subscribers. That's it. Your first month or two of doing it in earnest this year.

350
00:52:38.274 --> 00:52:48.064
Yes. Yeah. And so like I hit the subscri- and I hit, like with that video, which was maybe, that landing was in like late January or February. I started in earnest in early January.

351
00:52:48.144 --> 00:52:58.364
So it took me like a month and a half to hit the- Yeah... YouTube revenue, so like to get into the partner program. 'Cause you- Which-... you need 1,000, right, to start getting that? You need 1,000 subscribers.

352
00:52:58.444 --> 00:53:08.074
I th- no, you need more than that. Oh, okay. But no, you need 1,000 subscribers and 4,000 watch hours. Oh, okay. The 4,000 watch, in, in six, in a year. 4,000 watch hours in a year- Mm...

353
00:53:08.164 --> 00:53:16.444
I think, which was that, I was like, oh, I'm never gonna be able to do that. And it just, because I had one video go viral, I was able to do it. Um, so that was just lucky.

354
00:53:16.664 --> 00:53:25.144
Like that was just right, good timing, good, you know, all of that. Well, and like, you know, your, your, your years of experience- Yes... producing media.

355
00:53:25.213 --> 00:53:34.384
[laughs] But so much of like, of like going viral is, is just- Yeah, is luck... just luck. Um- Mm-hmm... so that was great. Um, and that was unexpected.

356
00:53:34.504 --> 00:53:44.434
So but, you know, and I do actually make a decent amount off the YouTube Partner Program. It is- Yeah... like, you know, it's a good, it's great. Um- And it only continues to build- Yeah...

357
00:53:44.434 --> 00:53:54.644
and as you get the backlog, people watch those videos. Exactly. And so, um, in that sense, uh, and that has in some ways like been like, okay, I need to make more evergreen content.

358
00:53:55.264 --> 00:54:02.764
Um, so that has, that's been an interesting like, you know, calculus as I've- Where you're kind of falling, falling into the strategizing. Exactly. But like- Yeah...

359
00:54:02.964 --> 00:54:14.984
for example, one thing I did was like I did a video on Voyager 1's like thruster like swap a few weeks ago that was, it's very slow to start, but it's been like steadily building, steadily getting views.

360
00:54:15.264 --> 00:54:23.764
And that's, I'm like I want more of that I think, like because Voyager 1 is like very close to my heart. I love that spacecraft, so I will- Yeah... talk about it until I'm blue in the face.

361
00:54:23.804 --> 00:54:26.184
So it like checks all the boxes.

362
00:54:26.224 --> 00:54:38.144
Going back to like what your goals are with this, like you were saying like not necessarily a million subscribers, but like, you know, I mean, you're, you're kind of just, you're earnestly creating this stuff and like getting a little more strategic like every, every time.

363
00:54:38.644 --> 00:54:49.844
Um, and it sounds like there is a world in which you do just keep building subscribers, and you are generating like a fullYou know, like, a full, like, salary revenue through AdSense- Yes...

364
00:54:49.854 --> 00:54:59.994
and through also, like, uh, newsletter ads. Um, is, so, like, what are, let's say, your... 'Cause this will be the two-year timeline you were mentioning. Yeah. What's your goal by end of 2025?

365
00:55:00.404 --> 00:55:11.454
Um, so that's kind of, you know, a little more short-term. Yes. And then also more of, like, long-term dreams for what this is. Yeah, end of 2025, um, honestly, it, there's no money goal. Like, honestly- Yeah...

366
00:55:11.454 --> 00:55:16.544
in terms of, like, I wanna... I don't want this to... I want to make an income, obviously. Yes. I'm not doing this for fun.

367
00:55:16.984 --> 00:55:28.844
But, like, in ter- I want, by the end of 2025, I want to be at a place where I understand the types of stories I do. Mm. Uh, like, I still don't understand the kinds of stories I do.

368
00:55:28.904 --> 00:55:40.164
Like, I know I cover space, but, like, when I look at a story, it, I want to- How do you know that this is an Ad Astra story? That's it. I want to have a, I wanna have an understanding of, like...

369
00:55:42.284 --> 00:55:54.064
A, a better, like, intuitive understanding of, like, okay, this is a story I'm going to cover, versus just, like, okay, I'm just gonna follow this for the next few weeks and just kinda see if anything- Like, what is your editorial mandate?

370
00:55:54.384 --> 00:56:00.134
That's exactly it. Yeah. Like, one of... 'Cause I can't cover everything. That's the thing- Which then allows you to maybe start, like, hiring another writer, producer- That's it...

371
00:56:00.144 --> 00:56:06.954
or whatever, 'cause then it's like you know now what this... It's not just a haphazard, like, this is just what I do. It's like, oh, this is what I like to do, and this is what...

372
00:56:07.024 --> 00:56:13.924
It goes back to Andrew Huang's, like, YouTube Ikigai. It's like, this is what works, this is what makes money, this is what's worked before. You're trying to learn that. That's exactly it.

373
00:56:14.084 --> 00:56:19.944
I want to have it figured, like, that part of it figured out. Like, what- Mm... what does this mean? Like, what, what...

374
00:56:19.984 --> 00:56:29.764
A- Ad Astra already, people already say, like, Ad Astra, I go there for, like, unbiased coverage about, like, like, like, anal- just anal- thoughtful analysis, which I love. That's what I like to do.

375
00:56:30.344 --> 00:56:40.544
But, like, I didn't start there. Like, I started out, you know, 10 months ago or whatever doing more newsy stuff, and the stuff that did well, and the people liked, and actually that I enjoy more is analysis. Yeah.

376
00:56:40.864 --> 00:56:50.274
So, like, it's not a money goal, although, like, I do, am doing now one-off, like, or, like, you know, mon- like, some YouTube, like, companies coming to me to do YouTube sponsorships. Oh, okay.

377
00:56:50.584 --> 00:57:01.284
I also, um, do vertical, like, vert- do, do vertical sponsorships and- Yeah... um, as well as- I just saw one of those... the TikTok, uh- Mm... the TikTok revenue program as well, the creator- Oh, yeah...

378
00:57:01.324 --> 00:57:12.144
it's not a lot, but, like, you know, it's something. No, not as good as YouTube. Yeah. Um, so there's a lot of income sources, and part of figuring all this out is, like, I need to get the newsletter...

379
00:57:12.384 --> 00:57:24.154
One of my, one of my goals- Yeah... is to get my newsletter subscriber base up, which- Where's that at right now, if you don't mind sharing? It is approaching 2,000 subscribers- Okay...

380
00:57:24.184 --> 00:57:32.674
which is phenomenal for an independent newsletter, and like- Do they just come through YouTube too, where you, like, mention it in a video, or? I, they come through so- they come from everywhere. Mm-hmm.

381
00:57:32.674 --> 00:57:45.764
They come through social. Yeah. Um, like, every... I'm very, I try to be very mindful of every, um, every time I'm going to, like, okay, this is what's coming this week. Here, the YouTube video's coming this day.

382
00:57:45.824 --> 00:57:56.484
Here's where you subscribe to the newsletter if you want it. Yeah. That always brings subscriptions. But now it's, like, word of mouth. I think, like, I am not... Because I, I promoted it very hard for the first,

383
00:57:57.404 --> 00:58:06.504
um, for the first 1,000 subscribers. I did a lot of, like, Beehiiv's growth, um- Yeah... the, the, where you, like, where you- The boosts and- Yeah, the boosts... activity... and stuff like that.

384
00:58:06.784 --> 00:58:14.004
For the first 1,000 subscribers, because I was like, I, that, to be in any way legitimate- You need a foundation... I need a foundation. Yeah. Once I

385
00:58:14.984 --> 00:58:24.264
g- got there and stopped and I figured the growth would taper off, and it's actually increased, I think, the rate of growth, and I think because people are recommending it now. And it's, like, out of my hands.

386
00:58:24.504 --> 00:58:32.644
Well, it's a unique... I mean, I found- Yeah... out about you because somebody at Beehiiv, one of my colleagues, I, I was like, "Hey," like, "Well, you, you, you got any favorite newsletters these days?"

387
00:58:32.884 --> 00:58:39.064
And, and he was like... Uh, shout out Ryan, Ryan Roop. He was like, "Oh, you gotta check out Swapna's stuff." Like, I- Yeah... it's so good. I'm a big fan.

388
00:58:39.344 --> 00:58:49.624
That's what- And so it's like you are a unique pro- you, you're selling a unique product. That's what, and that's what I'm finding, that people are really responding to the way I write, the way I talk about things.

389
00:58:49.644 --> 00:58:56.554
And I think people are looking for a sense of wonder. Mm. And that's the thing I've never lost about space. I think people are- Yeah... looking for a reason to be inspired.

390
00:58:56.614 --> 00:59:05.493
People are looking for a reason to have awe when everything around us feels like trash. [laughs] Like, in a, in a world, like, it's, it's a hard, it's a hard world to live in. Yeah.

391
00:59:05.493 --> 00:59:16.024
And I think people are looking for that, and I, I, like, like, multiple people have told me, like, "I follow you because you, like, I love your enthusiasm.

392
00:59:16.094 --> 00:59:28.064
Like, it, space isn't my thing, but I love w- how much you love this." Yeah. "And, like, it comes through in everything you do." And I think, so I think that that's something that I bring to the table, um, where,

393
00:59:29.024 --> 00:59:40.704
yes, I'm a journalist. Yes, I, I try to, you know, I try to abide by those principles. But also, like, one of the reasons I wanted to go independent is I didn't wanna have to tamp that down in order to report.

394
00:59:40.784 --> 00:59:45.354
Like, I don't... Like, when I'm reporting for a third party, like, a, a third party- Yeah...

395
00:59:45.354 --> 00:59:54.874
organization, I try to keep the enthusiasm low in or, like, like, how cool is this low in order to, like, be a little more professional. I don't have to be professional- Mm... on my own newsletter.

396
00:59:55.484 --> 01:00:02.344
I can just be like, "This is the c- like, like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. Like, look at this. This is insane. Like, how did this even happen?"

397
01:00:02.824 --> 01:00:09.784
And that's what I try, like, those are, and those, that, what I'm realizing more and more is those are the things I wanna write about. And so how...

398
01:00:10.764 --> 01:00:21.824
And, like, so all of it is just figure, like, slowly figuring out how do I write about this stuff more while also feeling like, like, I have a hand in everything that's going on. Yeah. Like, how... Yeah.

399
01:00:21.924 --> 01:00:27.964
Well- Wait, I love this. So I wanna talk about this for a second, and then, and then we'll probably wrap it up. Um, but two things this reminded me of.

400
01:00:28.024 --> 01:00:33.644
Like, one, I wanna go back to, like, one of the very first things you said about your husband being like, "Oh, you have to go do, do your own thing."

401
01:00:33.704 --> 01:00:39.334
But then I'm also thinking about, like, you know, Taylor Lorenz, the big, uh, internet culture, uh, journalist who just went independent.

402
01:00:39.404 --> 01:00:50.056
Like, in her post when she was announcing that, um, she wa- she was like, uh, you know, "I think this, this, this era of, like-Fau- like faux neutrality journalism is dead, or this woman- Mm-hmm...

403
01:00:50.066 --> 01:00:58.356
I spoke to, um, back, like, a few months ago, Amrina Ali, she has this newsletter of Central Desi about, like, you know, the, the Desi community in New Jer- for the Desi community in New Jersey.

404
01:00:58.376 --> 01:01:04.826
And she was like, "You know, like, 20 years ago I was reporting on these things and, like, having to be neutral." And, like- Yeah... th- there were things where, like, I...

405
01:01:04.996 --> 01:01:12.655
They affected me, and I, I felt wrong to be neutral, and so I wanted to, like, make a news outlet, like, kind of for us, by us.

406
01:01:12.736 --> 01:01:22.376
Um, and I think that, to me, is what is really interesting about, like, kind of this creator journalist thing is, like, I, I... You know, in an era where media litters, or media trust is lower than ever.

407
01:01:22.476 --> 01:01:23.976
I saw some graph about this yesterday.

408
01:01:24.056 --> 01:01:36.366
It's like I, I think people, for better and for worse, are looking more for, like, people who are, like, doing what you're saying, like, writing about what you care about with your personal point of view- Mm...

409
01:01:36.366 --> 01:01:44.816
and, like, being honest that it's your personal point of view. I don't know. Yeah. I, I [laughs] I don't know if there's a question there more of just, like, what I'm seeing, but- No, I totally agree with that.

410
01:01:44.886 --> 01:01:58.886
Like, I don't want to have to tamp down that enthusiasm. And, like- Yeah... also, I think, I think it's so interesting because, like, it's just... Space is everything now. Every com- Yeah... like, it's, it...

411
01:01:58.916 --> 01:02:06.926
Like, the way that 10 years ago it felt like every company was a tech company- Yeah... starting to feel like every company is a space company now. And so, like, you can't cover all of it. Yeah.

412
01:02:06.936 --> 01:02:13.816
And so let me, maybe I'll... Like, instead of having to feeling like I have to cover everything, and this is the journey I've been on- Yeah...

413
01:02:13.856 --> 01:02:22.846
maybe I'll just cover the things that make me go like, "I cannot believe what I'm seeing." Like, or like- But this too, this is, like, the conversation about, like, AI and, like, AI content. Yeah.

414
01:02:23.166 --> 01:02:30.496
And, like, how it's like, you know, when there's all this slop, like, what matters is having taste, and what taste is- Yeah... is having a point of view and, like, a personal- That's it... lens on this, right?

415
01:02:30.576 --> 01:02:39.496
And it's like that, again, is what you offer is, like, your very particular taste on, on the, on space. Exactly. And so that's what I'm trying to figure out.

416
01:02:39.716 --> 01:02:46.646
I know my taste, obviously, because I'm like, "Okay, I think that's cool," and I can tell you- Yeah... why I think it's cool. And that's a, that's a talent, and that's something I've worked very- Yeah...

417
01:02:46.646 --> 01:02:57.145
hard to build and develop, and a skill. But also, like, when can somebody else look at a space story and say, "That's an Ad Astra story"? Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

418
01:02:57.176 --> 01:03:04.176
Like, I know because I have the in... You know, it's me. I, my instinct is- I think it's so smart to articulate that as, as, like, a goal, as, like, a- I, like- That's... I really like that...

419
01:03:04.236 --> 01:03:12.996
I want somebody else to be able to look at something and be like, "Oh, this is something she's gonna cover because this is a super interesting story." And that's the, that's the sense I'm trying to...

420
01:03:13.076 --> 01:03:21.196
That's what I'm still figuring out. Yeah. Well, I think that's a great place to end it. So yeah, it's lovely. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, of course.

421
01:03:21.316 --> 01:03:27.636
Go check her out at Ad Astra Space, uh, on YouTube. Uh, and this has been Curtis Pole Podcast. I'll see you next week.

422
01:03:31.616 --> 01:03:45.136
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