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Leaning into my generalism literally changed my life. It has opened all these doors, and I've seen this happen for hundreds of people in the community.

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I see a personal brand as something that nobody can take away from you. But you're kind of always, like, reinforcing, "Here's who I am. Here's what I'm about." It's yours. It's an asset- Mm...

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that you own, and it's an asset that you control.

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It- the more you talk about it, the more it does sound like this response to, you know, the career anxiety of the modern knowledge worker, where it's like, "Am I gonna be replaced?" Like, how does Milly make her living?

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It's long term or nothing. So many people don't think like that. It's really hard to stand out today. This is, like, something that makes it memorable. Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast.

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My name is Francis Zier, and today I'm speaking with Milly Tamati, founder of Generalist World, which is a community and learning platform for people who identify as generalists, as a type of worker.

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What Milly has done in terms of turning this into a thriving business and truly participatory community over the last three years is really impressive. I learned a lot from her in this one. I think you will too.

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[gentle music] So you do speaking engagements, and I was looking at, um, your website where you list the things you like to talk about, and one of the, one of your, I think it was three or four topics you list that you like to get into, is how to build a defensible personal brand that pays dev- dividends.

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Mm. Uh, I would love to hear some of the principles you have around this.

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I have noticed, like, in the podcasts you've appeared on and in your LinkedIn, like, you have a lot of message discipline, and you, like, really, I think you embody this defensible, defensible personal brand.

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Um, so how do you tell people, how do you talk about how to build a defensible personal brand? Hmm. That's so interesting that that's come across because I don't think it was an intentional thing to begin with.

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I think a defensible personal brand for me came about out of necessity. So I live on this really remote island.

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I wanted to still be an internet person and to make money on the internet and to have-- make a living from the, the outside world, and I realized pretty early on that was going to be very hard to do if- Mm...

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I wasn't visible, if no one could find me, if no one could trust me, if no one knew my story or what I was about. And so I guess I've, I may have gone this a little contrarian to how other people build a brand.

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I think if you're following the gurus, there's, like, systems and schedule this, the... Like, I was saying to a friend yesterday, I, I have never scheduled a post, and in fact, it gives me anxiety- Mm...

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even thinking about scheduling a post because for me, a personal brand is a way to simply connect with someone, hopefully lots of other people on the other side. And

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the reason that I'm so bullish on it, and the reason that I talk about it so much, is because every day I wake up and people are getting laid off. There's like- Mm...

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this company's laid off 15%, this company's laid off 10, and I'm like, even if you're really secure in your job, you just don't know.

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You truly just don't know, and so I see a personal brand as something that nobody can take away from you, unless you get banned on LinkedIn or something. Mm.

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So obvs don't be too, like, controversial, but, um, as a rule, it's yours. It's an asset that you own, and it's an asset that you control. And so I see, I see, like, posting every single day.

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I've, I've literally posted for, I think, over 1,000 work days. Like, it's been a lot of posting. Um, and I see this as an essential part of my job. I don't see it as, like- Mm...

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something that's just, like, a nice to have. I'm like, "This is an essential key part of my job," uh, for the reason that it makes me defensible. It has led to speaking engagements.

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It has led to me advising different startups. It has led to all of our community members finding us, and in turn, we haven't had to spend anything on marketing. Like- Mm... why would I not keep investing in this brand?

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And yeah. [laughs] Yeah. No, there's a lot, lot in that that's really interesting.

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One, I think the, the fact that you kind of led with your being remote and, like, needing to, like, be so loud to post, you know, for 1,000 work days or whatever you said, uh, like, that, that kind of drives the, the, the volume, the power, um, the frequency of your personal branding, of your social media posts, right?

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Like, that's really interesting 'cause I...

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Like, living in New York, right, like, I often wonder, like, "Oh, if I was to move somewhere, somewhere else, would it be harder for my career, uh, because there'd be less people I can meet in person- Mm-hmm...

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et cetera?" Um, but I guess that is, that is kind of almost a strength of not living in a city is, like, it forces you onto the internet. Um, another thing in there too- Mm...

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you, you use the word guru, and it's interesting because, like, looking at your work, I, I think of, like, you are, um, putting out this idea of the generalist, and this is kind of this, like, totemic identity and philosophy that you are building your brand around and obviously building Generalist World, this community around.

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And I couldn't help but make some connections to something like Tim Ferriss and "The 4-Hour Workweek" or, um, somebody I spoke to recently, Colin Rocker, who his thing is, uh, first generation professionals. Mm.

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Which the, the commonality between all these things is it's like- Mm...

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this vision of what it means to work and a vision of a certain way, uh, of how to work and, like, a community of, like, bringing like-minded people who identify with that way of working together. Um, so it's like- Mm...

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this idea of, of the guru. Like, you don't come across... Like, guru is this, like, negative word of, like, almost, like, a multi-level marketing scheme type of, like, internet salesman, right? Like- Yeah. [laughs]...

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you don't come across as that. You, you have, like, you seem like a, a, a pretty normal person [laughs] who's not trying to like, uh- [laughs]... you know, recruit me into a cult. [laughs] But, um-All that to say,

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I'm, I'm curious how like this- [clears throat]... what the seed of this Generalist World thing is because it is kind of this totemic w- philosophy of working today that you've built this business around.

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So like when did that start? When did Generalist World start? What was the seed? Just a side note, uh, hilariously, we have been called a cult quite a few times, I think lovingly.

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Uh, but from the lens of our members are just so freaking jazzed to finally feel like they belong and to finally- Mm... have like language to talk about their skill set.

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And which leads me, like I can loop that back to the seed of Generalist World. Uh, where I had been working in startups for like seven years. I had had a punt a couple of times at starting my own company with- Mm...

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some successes, some total flops, and I realized the thread that tied it all together was being a generalist. Although I did not have the language for that at the time.

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I was calling myself like an all-rounder, uh, the jack of all trades and the- Many hats... glue person. Like I, I- Mm-hmm. Many hats, exactly. And for a long time it didn't matter because I was just like, um, I was fine.

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I w- I was never short of work and it was, uh, in 2021, I guess it was, when I first moved to this island and I was looking for a job and I was like, "What am I gonna do on the internet?"

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And when I was scrolling LinkedIn and Indeed, I was like hit in my hands like, "Oh, this sucks." I was like, "These roles look awful." [laughs] They're so specialized and just nothing got me excited.

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And I'm someone, as you can probably tell, I'm an excitable person, and like th- when I put my energy behind something, I do have, um, a tendency to be able to like- Mm... make things happen.

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And so I was like, "Oh, it just feels like a waste of everyone's time if I'm doing something that's not like that exciting." And so I was like, "Right. Screw the like LinkedIn Easy Apply-" Mm-hmm... whatever it is.

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I was like, "I'm gonna go straight to the CEOs, uh, and I'm just gonna like find problems that look really interesting and I'm just gonna be like, 'Hire me, and here's why you should hire me.'"

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And it was during one of these conversations with a CEO of a mental health tech company, uh, that she... We hit it off. She was like, "Yep, would love you, for you to come work with me."

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And then she came to the thing that every generalist has experienced where she was like, "But where do you fit? Are you product? Are you content? Are you strategy? Are you... Like, where do you fit?"

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And I was like, it was the first time I'd ever said this, and I said, "I think it's in your best interest to not try to make me fit anywhere. Just give me the job.

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Like, and I will come in, and I will work across those different functions. I will, uh, we can kind of figure out what this role looks like, but I will be your right hand." And she said, "Great."

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And then I actually remember in the message she said, "Ah, that makes sense. Like, I realize that your strength is that you don't fit into a box."

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And it was like click, click, click, click, click, like all the light bulbs in my head. And she gave me the role director of miscellaneous. Mm. That was my contracted title that I was hired for, and that was the seed.

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That was the seed of GW because I thought, "Huh. Well, one, if I'm a director of miscellaneous, like surely I'm not the only one. Like it would be really neat to find one other person or maybe two.

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Like gosh, maybe there's three of us in the world. That would be so cool." Uh, turns out there's a lot. And then the other side of it is, wow, companies could really do with more of these director of miscellaneouses.

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W- however you say the plural of that. Mm. And the, um, the convergence happened as well when there was like a big round of layoffs in like 2022. Also post-COVID, everyone was questioning, "What am I doing with my life?"

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And from there, Generalist World has kind of just like really taken off. However,

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when I started it in 2022, I have these distinct memories of feeling so embarrassed of saying what I was working on because people thought it was so dumb. Like, people were like, "What do you mean a generalist?

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Like, that's not a good thing. You need to specialize. Like, if you wanna be taken seriously, you need to specialize." And, um, I just disagreed. Mm. I really disagreed.

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And then I think with the rise of AI, um, it's taken like all this time and me really flying the flag, but now the tide is turning, um, so much. Like just this week I've heard the CTO of HubSpot, Dharmesh- Mm...

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the CEO of Every, Dan Shipper, and the CEO of Replit, whose name escapes me- Aman, I think his name is... all say more or less the same thing. Mm-hmm. Generalist. Mm-hmm. Generalist, generalist, generalist.

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This is where it's at. This is what... The CEO of Replit was like, "I'm gonna teach my kids just to be more generalist." I was...

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I had to stop on my podcast 'cause I was like, "Oh, like the world is finally catching up to what we have known all along, that generalists are really, really valuable." Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, so two- a couple things.

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One, this is exactly what I was talking about with your defensinal- defensible personal brand.

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You're hitting on a lot of notes here that I've seen in a lot of your LinkedIn posts, uh, and in all of your podcast appearances where you, uh, you talk about the director of, of miscellaneous role, um, and you're talking about this rise of, of generalists, which you're, you're very good at, at hitting these notes.

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Um, and I, and I knew you were gonna do this now, right? It's a perfect illustration of the defensible personal brand.

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You know, another word for this is, is just message discipline, where you have these notes and you, you, you fi- Mm-hmm... it's, uh, you're like a politician.

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You find a way to get them in and remind people of it- [laughs]... which is how you have to act to build a personal brand, right? Like, when a politician is campaigning- Yeah... it's the same thing. Mm.

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So one, I think for any listener, this is ex- like a great example of, of what you're supposed to do to build a, a good [laughs] defensible personal brand, is you have these things and you, you constantly- Huh...

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remind people of them, right? Like, um-Like, uh, one, one thing I was taught when I was first learning to do marketing stuff, uh, is nobody... Like, don't worry about repeating yourself.

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Like, you, you have to be repeating yourself. Repeat your- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm... you're gonna get bored of it, and you're gonna be like, "I shouldn't post, like, a version of this message again on LinkedIn or whatever."

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But the thing is, nobody cares. Nobody... That's the first thing. Nobody cares about you, right, on the internet. You have to make them care. You have to, like, post the thing. You have to say it constantly.

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You have to, like, sear it into their mind that this is who you are and this is what you're about. Mm-hmm. So one, you're doing, you're doing [laughs] this exceptionally well.

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Two, I think, um, uh, I wanna, I wanna get more into, into your... how you've built your audience in, in A Generalist's World for a second, but one word on this idea of the generalist. To me too, like, it, it feels like,

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it, like, it's, it's powerful that you name it, but it feels to me like this just, yeah, is the way of working now.

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Like, I have spent the last five years working in startups, and in a startup you have to have this malleability, this agility in what you do, right? Especially in a marketing role as I've, as I've always been.

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Um, it's constant pivoting. You... Like, being able to like, "Oh, I can do something on LinkedIn. I can... Oh, I can go into the street and shoot man on the street TikTok interviews," right?

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So I, I do, I do agree with you that it's like this is kind of this m- mode of working which, you know, 100 years ago you're on the, the factory floor at Ford and everyone has just their one thing. Um- Mm-hmm...

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but it's like, it's kind of like a, the, the, the generalism is sort of this, like, evolutionary response just, yeah, to the lack of stability in work. Which is, which is what you're identifying. Um, but- Mm...

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uh, I wanna talk about your social a bit more. So your audience, um, I'm seeing 21,000 on LinkedIn, 36.9 thousand on TikTok, 6.3 thousand on Twitter, and I would say the LinkedIn audience is the strongest.

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Tell me about your relationship with these three platforms, um, when you started with kind of basically zero on them, um, and then how the c- the growth story on LinkedIn, TikTok, Twitter has gone. Mm. Yeah.

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So the fastest one is the Twitter, because I started it and then kind of fell off it for, like, four years, and I've only just started back, like, kind of- Mm... or actually this week. So, um, yeah.

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I find, I find Twitter a funny place, and I still don't know how I feel about it. Uh, so that's kind of not where I focus my energy. My energy is much more focused on LinkedIn and on TikTok.

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And it's actually a really interesting question, because you're so right. The relationships I have with those two are completely different.

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The relationship I have with my, my crew is what it feels like on LinkedIn, is it's like I have a really large group of what feels like friends. A really, really- Mm... large group.

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And, uh, there is a, there's a depth of loyalty that comes with LinkedIn, and a lot of people complain about the algorithm and, like, that, "My, my... I'm not getting all this reach."

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But actually what you are getting is loyalty. You are getting relationships- Mm... because people see you all the time, they trust you, they understand your consistent message. TikTok is the Wild West.

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TikTok I started on probably only about a year and a half ago, and there's no loyalty. [laughs] There is, like, no loyalty at all on TikTok. It just... It's not a thing.

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TikTok is one of my favorite playgrounds for experimenting. If you're a nerd, like, if you're a nerdy experimenter, uh, which I am, it's so much fun because it's just like playing the lottery every single time you post.

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And I'm someone that, um, yeah, I, I get a lot of, uh, I don't know, geeky, like, joy and excitement of, like, what, like... Of figuring stuff out. For me the, like, the fun is in the figuring out of the platform.

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And video was a different frontier. I was like, "What on... Short form." Mm. "Like, how do, how does this work?" Um, so my advice for TikTok is to not take it too seriously.

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So, like, you're not gonna build these, like, really amazing close one-to-one relationships. You're probably not gonna sell a lot on TikTok. I sell a lot more things on LinkedIn.

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Like, I track all of this, so I know where my sales are coming from. They're not coming from TikTok. But what you do get on TikTok is people subscribing. So we have this, like, generalist quiz and- Mm... there is over...

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I actually checked just before this call. We just ticked over 30,000 people have taken this quiz, which is, like, completely wild, because it was just a bit of a punt from us. And most of them- Mm...

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like, I would say at least 20,000, have come from TikTok. So it's like they come from TikTok, they...

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If we can get them onto our email list, then we build trust, 'cause we send these twice a g- weekly emails which, like, are full of value. So as long as we can get them on there, then we can build trust.

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Uh, but then really LinkedIn is where I... I like to think of it almost as an emerging plot.

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Like, there's an eme- there's a plot, like a film, that has been happening for three years, and every day I add a little bit more to the plot, a little bit more.

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And I don't know what the plot's, I don't know what the plot's gonna be that day. Um, and so people feel, I think, invested in the plot because they feel like they're a part of this film, this emerging film. Yeah.

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Oh, okay, so a couple things. First a little bit more on LinkedIn, then I wanna get into TikTok and the quiz.

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So with LinkedIn, uh, I think it makes sense that you do so well there, one, because your content is about, is about work and this, like, this way of working. LinkedIn is a, a job platform.

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And I get the sense that, like, people are also- Mm-hmm... attracted to Generalist's World because it, like, it's a way of like, "Well, how do I find meaning in my, in my career?

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Like, how do I think about the future of my career and, and the security of it?" Obviously people go to LinkedIn to look at jobs. So very simple there. Mm-hmm. I think the other thing though too is, like, the...

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You, you write these really long posts and, and, and they're good. Your character comes through. Again, it's the message discipline that comes through.

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Um, and the way the LinkedIn algorithm works is, like, it's so unreliable, right? Like, I might scrollYou know, um Mm-hmm... a, a couple feet down my LinkedIn feed and it's like, "Here's something from just now.

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Here's something from, like, somebody that I work with, but it's three weeks old," et cetera. So the way that you write your posts- Mm...

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which are quite long, where it's like there's always a bit of this reminder of, like, I'm Millie and, like, here's, you know, I, I, I do Generalist World.

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This is why I believe in the, in the generalist as this type of worker, and then here's this thing that's on my mind today. But you're kind of always, like, reinforcing that- Mm...

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that here's who I am, here's what I'm about. Now here's, like, the, the variable thing of, like, you know, I just got back from this festival in Portugal. Mm-hmm. And I didn't look at my phone and this feels so good.

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But it's like it's always bringing people back to that core thing, which I think is a good lesson of how to do LinkedIn, is, um, constantly- Mm-hmm...

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you know, uh, high volume, constantly reminding people of what you do. Um, but okay, the quiz. So you told me...

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We spoke three or four weeks ago about doing this, and at that point you told me that it had been up for just over a year and had brought in 26,000 leads, so another 4,000 in just a few weeks is pretty amazing.

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Um, I think the quiz as a way to attract email subscribers to grow an audience online, it's, it's very smart, and it's also not novel, right? It's, it's Buzzfeed.

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And this quiz is, like, very much like a professionalized Buzzfeed quiz. I took it. Um, I, I forget- [laughs]... what my type was. What are the four types? 'Cause there's a... It's like what kind of generalist are you?

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What are the four types? So it's connector, innovator, translator or systems thinker. Mm. Yeah. I was a translator. I was a 7 out of 10, I believe, translator. Um, so that's [laughs] what's- Nice.

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[laughs] Uh, but anyways, um, yeah, it's, it's very smart 'cause people wanna know, well, what am I through this lens? So tell me this, you know, now 30,000 people have taken this. Um, is it from organic search?

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Is it mostly from TikTok? Where are people coming? And then the other side of this, right, to confirm is that anybody who does this, they're signed up for the newsletter. Yeah.

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So the quiz came about because the, one of the top things we kept hearing was, "I think I'm a generalist, but I don't really know. And if I am, like, I don't actually know how to talk about my skillset."

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And so I was chatting with one of our members one day. His name's Romero. Shout out Romero. Legend. He is an organizational psychologist by trade. And he was like, "You know, I think I could, like...

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I think I could, uh, create something that would help categorize people and give them, like, something to hold onto- Yeah... and some language." This was the big thing, the articulation piece.

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Oh, gosh, people really, really struggle with it. And we just thought, you know, let's give it a try. We, uh... So I hired Romero.

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This is also, I think, maybe a lesson for, like, founders, is, like, know what your strengths are. Mm. When I looked at how to do the quiz, I was like, "That's not my strength."

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My brain breaks at the, like, categorization of that, so outsourced it. Hired someone I trust, and he is so much better than, uh, I would have done it.

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And so there's a lesson there, um, that, like, don't create a crap quiz. Create a good one. Like, like anything- Well, I think also, just to wrap up for a second- Make it good. Make it quality...

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I think that that's part of, like, this generalist philosophy- Yeah... is understanding, like, where...

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I- it's, it's, it's being able to, like, try doing a thing and know your limits and know where it's worth investing your time versus where- Mm-hmm... you know, do enough to understand what- Yes...

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maybe the thing is, what the problem is, but also to understand that you're not the best person for the particular necessary solution. Bingo. Mm-hmm. In action. Exactly.

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And so yeah, we created it, and it was a total punt. Uh, this is also startup 101, right? You do lots of things. Some of them will work. This is one that worked exceptionally well. Mm. And yeah, it's, it's been amazing.

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I can't actually remember the in- initial thought of your question. Uh, what, what was it? It was... I, I'm not sure what it was either, but I [laughs] think it was something around, um...

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Oh, it was, it was w- how have people found it, the quiz. How have people come to it? It's brought in, you know, 30,000 people on your email list. Oh, yes. Um, how did they discover it in the first place?

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Yeah, so really simple. Um, all of our links on social media, whether that's LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, uh, they all link to the same URL, which is generalist- generalist.world/links. Mm.

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And whatever we're kind of pushing at the moment, there's like... I think at the moment there's, like, four different links to choose from. Mm. And there has been

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a few, particularly, like, TikTok and LinkedIn videos that have really popped, that have really resonated, and they would drive, like, most of the signups.

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Uh, so usually, like, once a week, maybe twice a week, I see it as my job to promote the quiz- Mm... to market the quiz.

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And the fun part for me, which probably lots of people would find not fun at all, is finding the different angles and being like, "Ooh, what is the angle that's, like, really resonating with people?"

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And I think the, the testament to this is, um, we've [laughs] actually just created a different quiz. It's called the, um- Mm... ai skilled quiz.com, and it was created by another member of GW.

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Because basically we were like, "This worked so well. Let's do it again with more of an AI angle on it." And so I'm in... It's only, like, a week old. It's very, very new. I think we've had 400 people take it.

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It's very new. Mm-hmm. And it's, again, my job, uh, to find out what is resonating.

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So if you are on- going on my TikTok at the moment, you're like, "Oh, Millie's doing some weird, like, videos trying to find this angle." And for me, this is part of the fun. It's the experimentation.

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And, like, I would not be posting those videos on LinkedIn because that's my loyal- Mm... audience, where TikTok feels like a sandbox where you can just, like, experiment. I just delete things if they don't, like, fly.

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It's no problem. But most people would be seeing a social post, clicking that link in our bio which just has, like, multiple links.

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Um, all of them are free things, so it'll either be, like, get all of our job opportunities each week, um-Take one of the quizzes. At the moment we're running a summer school, uh- Mm...

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with a bunch of, like, really cool brands. So that's also on there. That's, like, kind of our big campaign at the moment. And so the goal of that link is whoever clicks on it, there's something in there for them.

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Like, if they've come this far they're like, ooh, either, like, events or a quiz, or oh, jobs. So whatever you need, we've got it. Mm. It's like a smorgasbord of options.

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I think having the quiz in there makes so much sense because, like, let's say, let's say there's no, there's no quiz, but it's like here's our website, here's our job board, here's, like, our link to sign up for our newsletter, whatever.

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Like, I'm so much likely to kinda slide away and just click away, but then when there's a quiz it's like, oh- Hmm, no one can... I've got two minutes. Like, I'm gonna do that little quiz, right?

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So I, I think that's really smart to- Yeah... have that as, like- Totally... a leader in your, in your, like, bio. Um, okay, I wanna come back to a few things there, including the summer school.

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But we should talk about what Generalist World is practically in terms of, you know, the, there's the community, there's the newsletter, et cetera. Mm-hmm.

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So tell me kind of what the different parts of Generalist World are, and what the, the s- the audience size is for each. So I understand it's, there's the newsletter and there's the Slack community. Mm-hmm.

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Um, what else is there? How many people are in each? Yeah. So the core of GW is our community. Has been since day one. It is our, my favorite corner of the internet. It's also our moat.

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It's, like, the thing that is really, really, really hard to replicate, and the people inside are some of my favorite humans. And so there's around 600 members, uh, in th- and we just host that on Slack.

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Uh, our email list is very, very close to 30,000. I think we'll probably cross that this week, and that's been all organic. Um, word of mouth. Quiz has obviously been a huge driver. So that's been pretty neat.

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And then our social following is around, I think, coming up to 100,000. It's, it's, uh, in and around that number. Mm-hmm. And, um, yeah. So it's become, like,

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I don't wanna say surprisingly substantial, but when I started it, I really was just like, could I find, like, two or three or four other people who are generalists? And it's just kind of, like, grown arms and legs.

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Mm-hmm. Um, so the community... Um, or o- one, actually, before we get to the community, how we get into the community. Uh, I understand that Generalist World basically has, has three products.

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Um, and I, I was looking at these on the pricing page of the website. Uh, there's the positioning guidebook for $50. Mm-hmm.

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Uh, the Unboxed tier, which is led by a course of the same name, has a few other things as well. That's $400. And then the community, which is $950. So that's a pretty large amount of people who have paid- Mm-hmm...

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to join the community, 600. Uh, w- pretty impressive. Um, tell me, like, w- at what rate has this grown, the community? Like, has it just been pretty steady over the past three years, or big spikes?

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Um, tell me about the, the intake into the community. Oh my gosh. I could do a whole seminar on this community because it's, there's, there's so much to it. So, like, like, candidly, the, not everyone has paid 950.

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So, like, at the be- Mm... at the very beginning three years ago when I had no idea what it was, I was like, um, will anyone give me, like, $150 a year for this thing that I don't even know what it is?

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And some people, strangers on the internet, were like, "Here you go, Millie. Here's our credit card."

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[laughs] And for me that was actually just incredible validation, because I truly was, like, I was not bullshitting anyone. I was like, "I don't know what this is, but I feel like it might be important.

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If you also think that, please come with me." Um, yeah. So it, the, the, the pricing has changed, and we have experimented with everything from, like, 150 would be the low end- Mm-hmm...

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all the way to, I think the most we experimented was with, was about 1350. And

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I think when you're experimenting with price, I mean, that's like a 10X difference, the way that we've done that in, um, in a way that doesn't feel icky or gross, basically, like, raising your prices, is just to be really, really honest.

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Um, really honest, and again, bringing people into the plot I think has been it. Mm. So people, um, I, I build in public, right?

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So people have come, I think, to really trust that I'm, like, genuine, and I am genuinely trying to solve this problem, make the world better for generalists.

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And so they're on the ride, and I think they also realize, okay, the value has in- incrementally, um, increased over time. P- for example, Unboxed- Mm...

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is a course we created, and we were like, "Is the course gonna be the thing? We don't know if the course is gonna be th- the thing." And so we've just kinda rolled the course into the community.

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And the, the goal is just to keep making the community ridiculously valuable. And I think I know this is working when, for the last, like, six months something's changed in, like, my founder psyche,

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and I started to love sales. [laughs] I used to, like... Sa- sales used to give me, like, snakes up my back. I'd be like, "Ugh, I don't wanna do it." [laughs] Like, how do I not, do anything to not do sales?

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But this year I've started to love sales, and I think that's because, um,

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I th- from my point of view, the community is so objectively valuable that when I see someone who fits, like, the profile, I feel like I'm kinda doing them a solid by just letting them know. I'm like, "Oh,

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you would actually get so much value." Mm. Like, you would actually... You, you kinda need to come in. It would be so helpful for you. And, um, that feels really cool.

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And then when you fulfill that and they are like, "Wow, this was life-changing. Wow, I've made best friends. Wow, I've got a new job.

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Wow, got a 20% pay rise," whatever it is, uh, it just is, like, a self-fulfilling loop where I'm like, okay, so now it's, like, my responsibility as a founder-To not sell, but to do the, um, the right thing by letting people who are the right fit- Mm-hmm...

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know that we exist and know that the doors are open. Mm-hmm. Yeah. An- another thing, too, I think that helps build the trust.

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You do have on the, the Unboxed, you do have a seven-day money back guarantee, 30-day on the full tier. Um- Mm-hmm... tell me about, like, the experience of somebody coming into the community.

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Let's say the first week, do you have this, this, like, onboarding kind of flow set up or, you know, here, I'm gonna put you in this one, introduce you here?

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What does it look like if I come into the community my first week? Yeah. It's, oh, it's so exciting. So we, you... Well, firstly, if you wanted to come into the community tomorrow, you couldn't. Uh, we have cohorts.

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So we have about three cohorts a year. We're, this year we're thinking we're gonna do four because the demand has just been there, and we're like, "Why would we not do it if we can do four?" Mm-hmm.

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So firstly, there's, like, opening week. We call it Doors Open. It's just like a festival inside the community. It's always so much fun. There's a real buzz. It's like, ooh, who's gonna join?

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And the caliber of people that join are always, like, intimidatingly amazing, so you know that there's gonna be really interesting, um, like, non-linear amazing people coming in. And so they basically sign up.

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Super simple. It's like a Stripe link. They'll get, like, the onboarding email, which we obviously all run through Beehiiv.

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And when they first arrive, they'll be getting, like, an onboarding message from our community manager. Her name's Edja. We call her the community queen for a good reason. She is amazing.

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And within the first couple of days, they're then gonna get a welcome message from me, and this welcome message is a bit ridiculous. Founders always give me the side eye when they hear that I still do this. They're like,

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"You could probably automate that," or like, "You could probably use AI." And I'm like, "No, the point is, I'm doing things that don't scale- Mm-hmm... for as long as I possibly can."

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And so this welcome message is actually a video from me, and it takes me a minute, two minutes. It's, it's not a long video. It's not a long investment of time, but I send it to each person.

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So each cohort, I'll send 80-plus welcome videos where I'm like, "Hi, name," and I will bl- babble on for, like, you know, a minute or two.

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And it's so amazing how much of a difference that video makes, um, because I think everything is automated these days, and everything is, like, efficiency focused.

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So when people arrive and they feel like, oh, wow, this founder cares, like, actually gives a shit, like, is actually going to, like, take the time to reach out and make sure that I'm getting settled, and I use that time to also, uh, set more about the culture, how we're a calm community.

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And it's these little touches I will continue to try for as long as I can, uh, to, yeah, basically to, like, put these little touches in. Um, and then the first... So that would be the first couple of days.

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Usually, it's kinda like a fire hose for people. They're like, "Whoa, this is..." Like, if you've ever been in a community and it's, uh, like crickets, this is not that.

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This is like, if anything, it can be actually too overwhelming. So we actually help people, be like, "We know that it's very, that people are so engaged and excited."

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So we help people find ways to, um, engage in a way that feels good for them. Uh, and not everyone is, like, a typer, right? Mm-hmm. So there's, like, other ways. Maybe it's, like, connecting one-to-one.

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Um, and then we always in our first kind of, uh, six to eight weeks will have master classes, and so we bring in hard to access experts, and they run sessions.

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And it's a really cool way for members to start to upskill, um, but also, like, to hang out and to meet each other and, like, swap notes.

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Uh, we'll also do, like, a live cohort of the Unboxed so people can, like, form these little accountability groups. Uh, so the, kind of the goal with the community, and Edja,

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oh, she just truly does, like, such an exceptional job, is to create these different ways that people can meet each other and these different ways that people can engage and find value.

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And now that we're a lifetime membership, it's such a no-brainer because we, we keep doing this three, four times a year, and it's like, oh, okay. So the value just, like, continues forever.

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Um, so yeah, that's kinda what you'd expect in the first six to eight weeks. Okay, so a couple questions. One really quick one. When did you switch to the lifetime from the recurring yearly fee? This year. Very recently.

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Oh, okay. Nice.

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Uh, and then, um, I heard you talking on the other podcast, on, on, on another podcast you were on about the idea of making it paid as a way of introducing this sort of friction to make people more inspired and, like, more accountable to actually participating, which I think is really important.

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When there's just a free community, you join the Slack. You look at it once. You never do something again. Uh, you know, that's one thing that can happen. Mm-hmm.

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Um, and so I also think, I really like the cohort aspect of another, as another way of introducing this friction that inspires participation, that makes it feel special, that makes it feel limited, that gives people, like, a specific window, right?

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It's like instead of asking a broad question, I- I- Mm-hmm... sometimes I try to do that here. Sometimes I try to ask very specific questions to get a very specific answer, right?

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It, it, it's, it's hospitality is what it is. Um, how do you, like- Sure... the kind of peer-to-peer in here, 'cause you're talking about the programming you set up, um, also these, you know, these peer-to-peer sessions.

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But I think one flaw I often hear about with communities is, like, oh, people stop participating or, like, a community isn't healthy if they're expecting, like, you know, the leaderNot that you are s- like the only, you know, figurehead of this, but like the person who's kind of the founder of it, maybe they, they just want time from that person and they don't really engage with other people.

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Mm-hmm. Um, so the question here is how do you, like, make sure that people are participating- Mm-hmm...

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in a peer-to-peer way, and like forming these connections with each other that are the basis of an actual community? Mm. That's a great question. When I look back at the very beginning of GW,

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I was very much the figurehead. Mm. I think at the beginning, communities do need a face. They need the person being like, "This is..." Community is just a culture. Mm-hmm.

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It's just like this is the culture that we have here, and this is the vision of where we're going.

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And getting those early members was so key, and honestly, I think I was a bit lucky that the early members I got, and they're still there, we had like a first 100 club, um,

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are some of my like really, really good friends now. Mm-hmm. I've, I've never met them, but they've been like our, our OG members of, uh, our OG of GW. It's all these acronyms.

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And, uh, having those, that early crew, uh, to form relationships with each other just sets the culture. Mm. So it's like, "Oh, okay, this is how we operate here." And it's taken a long time, to be honest.

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We're three years in, and it's only now that I'm, um, able to step, I would say, to the side. I'm, I haven't stepped back, but I've stepped to the side, and now my role...

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In fact, I've kind of made myself, um, redundant from running the community. Eja is now our full-time person, and, um, I am still in there every day. People still like...

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'Cause I just love to hang out there and I love the people inside. But in terms of actual community management, like half the time I don't even know what's going on.

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Like Eja will just text me and be like, "Okay, we've got 15 local meetups this week. We're having a picnic in Copenhagen. We've got this thing happening in New York." I'm like, "What? Copenhagen? That's so cool."

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And yeah, so, um, I think having really key early members and, uh, becoming friends with them. Mm-hmm. Maybe there's other ways to do this.

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Generalist World is the first and only community [laughs] I've built, so I don't really have any other like, um, examples, but I became really good friends with them. There's a, a level of deep trust.

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Um, and then how else do we do it? I think we are also lucky... It's a great question 'cause it's making me think it through. Mm. We're also lucky that, um, generalists by nature

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I found to be very collaborative and very generous in their knowledge sharing, and I think because I often role model, um, like light vulnerability, I'm not like baring my soul- Yeah...

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and like, "Oh, this is all of me," but I'm honest. I'm very, very honest. Uh, that kind of trickles down or trickles into the community culture.

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So we will have, you know, we'll have everything from ridiculous like meme threads, which is hilarious, and it's just like all the comedians in Generalist World come out, to like these really deep like, "Man, I'm struggling.

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Like, I need help. Like, I need... Like, what would you guys do in my scenario?" And that could happen in the space of 10 minutes. Like- Mm... they could both be happening in different channels.

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Um, so even though it's like a, a career community, it's kind of just, um, where you go to make friends as an adult who have also had a similar career arc to you, but quite probably not the exact same.

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Like, we have academics in Australia, and, you know, tech operators in San Francisco. Mm. Like the... Such, such a wide variety.

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I think, uh, w- one thing you said on another of these podcasts I listened to where you were the guest is that, you know, 10 years ago, you were working as a tour guide, um, and so tha- this is, this seems like kind of the seed- Mm...

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of what you do here, where you, you said that, you know, you were tasked every day or however many tours you did a day with, uh, making sure that these like people who didn't know each other and, like, were from different places would c- could kind of laugh together, and it's like, and you...

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I mean, that's something you have to model. I've, you know, I've worked, like, as a barista, and like what you do as...

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The, the kind of hospitality you have even just standing behind a counter selling coffee, kind of a similar thing of like you, it's your job to make these people feel welcome- Mm-hmm...

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and to like model the mood that, that you want them to have, whether it's a barista like smiling and laughing and like, you know, making a joke, responding to a joke- Totally...

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whether it's a tour guide, like, doing the same thing, right? Like, I think this, which is very generalist perhaps. [laughs] Yes.

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Um, so I, I, I don't know, I really liked hearing that seed that I'm, that I'm hearing reflected in, in what you're saying now. Um, but, uh, question: Who are these people?

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You start, you s- you're saying a little bit, you know, maybe it's a tech operator in San Francisco. Um, what are some of the rough demographic breakdowns, uh, of the people in Generalist World? Where do they live?

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Mm-hmm. Who are they? Mm. So most folks are from the US or the UK and Europe, although we do have a growing, uh, number of people finding us in Australia or New Zealand. Mm.

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And that's becoming a big focus for me, uh, 'cause I am Kiwi. I'm like, "Yeah, let's- Yes... let's get like, let's get the Down Unders in."

237
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Um, so that's very exciting for me, and most people probably work in tech or, like, kind of they're also internet people. Mm. Uh, they work online.

238
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They are often, uh, kind of like seven, eight, nine years into their career. So- Mm... I think there's like this generalist arc where at the beginning, you know, your early career, it's kind of hard.

239
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You're like trying these different things, and you're trying to fit into the specialist box, and it's not till you kind of pop out in your mid-career that you're like, "Ah-I guess, I guess that path wasn't really for me, so, like, so now what?

240
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You know? Now I've tried these things. I'm, I'm not following the specialist path, so gosh, where do I fit? And that's kind of when people find us. Mm.

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And when people say, "Oh, maybe I can find how I would like to spend, you know, the second part of my career. How, how might I like to spend that time?" Um, and

242
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to be honest, like, the longer I spend in Generalist World, you'd think I'd be getting more clarity on this, but the truth is often I get a little bit more confused because we will have people joining who when I look at their profile I'm like,

243
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"You look like a deep specialist to me. Like, what are you doing here?" Like, I'm... I say that with, like, love and curiosity. Like, "What are you doing here?" [laughs] "Are you lost?" And

244
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this is where it's so interesting that I think, um, generalist, it can be something that you are. Like, as you said, I'm a lifelong, I'm a hardcore, like, generalist. I always have been, always will be.

245
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This is in my bones. But I don't think that is the case for everyone. I think that some people can see generalism as an approach and can say, "Huh, I actually think that's just a smart career strategy at the moment."

246
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So even though I'm this deep specialist, this... Uh, we have a professor in Australia, Schon, who I kind of referenced earlier, who has a PhD so long, he sent it to me, I was like, "I can't even say that.

247
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I can't even say whatever it is that you work on. It's so long."

248
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But he recognizes for himself and for his students that he's teaching that the world is changing, that work is changing, and perhaps it's actually smart to be around a group of people who, it's like a think tank, who are thinking in this way, who don't have all the answers.

249
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Mm-hmm. Like, I, like, I don't know. Like, n- no one knows what's coming next. Uh, but I think generalists are historically pretty good at figuring it out. And so we're like, "What if we just gather together?

250
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What if we just gather in the same place? We'll form these connections. We'll have genuine, like, deep trust, and we know that this is a space where we can be really honest."

251
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And it just makes it easier when the world is a bit topsy-turvy, uh, to have those spaces where you can kind of figure it out together. Yeah. It's this...

252
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Uh, it, it's really interesting that you say it's mostly people who may be seven, eight, nine years into their career. Um, and, like, it, it, it's...

253
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The way you say you identify as a lifelong generalist, and some people, uh, come in and you're like, "You seem more like a specialist," like, to me it really is, like, it...

254
00:45:52.930 --> 00:46:01.770
The more you talk about it, the more it does sound like this response to, you know, the career anxiety of the modern knowledge worker where it's like, "Am I gonna be replaced?" Like, "Do I need...

255
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Like, what other skill should I be working on?" Mm-hmm. And it... I see the same thing in, like, any creator I talk to, right? Like, the, a, a, a good creator business is diversified across- Mm-hmm...

256
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platforms and across revenue streams. Um, and it's just kind of like- Yeah...

257
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uh, hedging the, for the future of, like, I've got this other thing that I've tried a little bit that I could put more investment in if, you know, if the waters start rising over there. Um, to that extent of- Yeah...

258
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you know, diversified revenue streams, what are the various ways you make your living? Is it all just, like, paying yourself from the fees people pay to Generalist World? How does Millie make her living? Yeah.

259
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So for a long time, memberships was our core revenue stream. That was our- Mm... core main revenue stream. And it's very recently that I have turned on sponsorships. I mean, we're nearly at 30,000 subscribers now. Mm.

260
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And there's been times over the years that people have, like, wanted to sponsor the newsletter. And this is gonna probably... May- maybe don't follow this advice. I don't know. It worked for me.

261
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Uh, but, like, I always felt a bit weird and icky about just being like, "I don't even know this tool," or, "I don't even know this, like, brand, yet I'm going to, um, put them in front of this audience that I've, like, blood, sweat, and tears over, like, bringing together."

262
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It never felt quite right. So over the years I would say we've left actually a lot of money on the table by- Mm... not taking on sponsorships from the beginning. Um, and now that we're this deep in, I'm like, "Okay.

263
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Well, uh, [laughs] what is my dream way of having sponsors? Like, we don't have to do it in the traditional way of, like, just selling each one."

264
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And I've basically made a very, very, very short list of, like, four or five brands. And I've spent years building relationsh- relationships with them.

265
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Um, not necessarily asking for anything, just making sure that we know, like, that we're on their radar. And so the first brand is Notion.

266
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And I mean, I, in fairness, did hound them for, like, two years and went through, like, four different people trying to get, like, my in. Um, and now they've sponsored us, and we absolutely hit it out of the park.

267
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And so they've sponsored us again. So for the next quarter we're sponsored.

268
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And there's two more brands that I won't say until they're confirmed, but probably gonna be very soon, and did the same thing, where I was like, "You're it." Like- Mm-hmm... "You're it. I, I want you. Like, I...

269
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It's, it's gonna be, it's gonna be great because I, I use you all the time. You're what I'm..." It's just, like, the most genuine part- It's more like a partnership. Mm-hmm. A genuine partnership.

270
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And I think one thing I do quite differently is I just refuse now to do transactional. I'm this deep. I'm like, "We're so deep, we're not doing any transactions. Like, long-term or nothing."

271
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And I had a very large brand, household brand name come to me a couple of weeks ago pitching a partnership. And they did the classic, like, "Let's test it."

272
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And I now have the confidence to say, "No, I'm not gonna test it. I'm not gonna put anyone in front of our audience. It's long-term or nothing." Mm.Uh, their response was actually very interesting.

273
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They said, "Ah, I'm so glad you said that. So many people don't think like that. Most people don't think like that." Um, TBD if it worked. I'm still waiting to hear back from them. Uh, but yeah.

274
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So basically, long story short, we, um... Memberships are our, kind of our core that, like, just, like, pump all year round in these different cohorts. And now sponsorships.

275
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My goal for, like, the next, like, 12 months is to have that way overtake the memberships to really give us some, some big cushioning and maybe even- Mm-hmm... to grow the team a little bit. Um, [lips smack] so yeah.

276
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Uh, three, three follow-up questions here. One, so you've got this pretty- [laughs]... well-diversified, well-diversifying revenue in the business. How do you, how do you pay yourself out?

277
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How do you, like, uh, determine that part of it? So I do the classic founder thing where in, in the UK, you basically can pay yourself 12 and a half grand, and then it's tax-free. So I do that. Mm.

278
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So I pay myself £12,500 a year, which sounds so low, and it is so low. Um, but I can do that 'cause I live on this island. [scoffs] I- my rent is... People are gonna be annoyed. I'm gonna get canceled- [laughs]...

279
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for how little my expenses are. I'm not even gonna say it because people are gonna [laughs] like be like- Well, let's be hon-... "What?

280
00:50:39.064 --> 00:50:50.724
But-" You do live, you live in this very remote island that's, like, 170 people, right? [laughs] 191. And I think it's an important point because, um, living here is a choice, of course. Mm.

281
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Like, living anywhere is a choice.

282
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But living here whilst building GW is an absolute choice, and it's that I can continue to grow it and not put pressure on growing so fast or not put pressure on having to, like, take investment.

283
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Um, I can do it in a way that feels really good because my runway is essentially forever. As long as- Mm... I live here, I can keep building. Um, so although, of course, it has sacrifices that I'm- I'm not in New York.

284
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I can't just go and meet these big brands, or I can't go and meet my community members. Um, but when I look at the big picture and when I take a step back, I don't think it's harmed us. Like- Mm...

285
00:51:30.234 --> 00:51:39.934
in fact, I think it's only added to a story of, like, "What?" Like, "What do you mean? Where do you live? What do you mean this is where you've built it from?"

286
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It's, it's all a part of the story, and, like, it's really hard to stand out today. So this is, like, something that makes it memorable. Mm-hmm. I...

287
00:51:48.074 --> 00:51:51.154
No, I think it, it really is a good part of the story and adds to your brand.

288
00:51:51.514 --> 00:52:08.524
Uh, one thing about the sponsorships, this isn't sponsorships per se, but when I signed up for the newsletter, uh, like, I don't know, 5, 10 minutes after I'd signed up and received the intro email from you, I received another email titled Free Bonus 20K Savings on Our Favorite Eight Tools.

289
00:52:08.964 --> 00:52:16.694
Um, and it's a short list of what seems like affiliate partner links, some of the tools. There's Notion, Riverside, Zapier, Beehiiv. I... This seemed really smart.

290
00:52:16.714 --> 00:52:25.564
You know, hit, hit people with this list right after they're most engaged. Uh, does this do well for you? What's the conversion like on some of these? Yeah. It's fairly new, to be honest. Mm.

291
00:52:25.574 --> 00:52:36.874
And I'd love to, like, see how it works over the next couple of months. Um, but it... Like, whenever I'm doing anything, the question that I ask myself is just, "How can this be a win-win?" Mm-hmm.

292
00:52:36.943 --> 00:52:48.414
"How can this be a win for our audience or our community? How can it be a win for us? And ultimately, how can it be a win for the brand as well, let's say, as Beehiiv, Notion, Zapier?" And so I use that.

293
00:52:48.494 --> 00:52:58.394
I, I haven't really seen anyone do this- Mm... to be honest, and it boggles my mind because it's like you can get commission, and you can help people get savings on the tools they need.

294
00:52:58.414 --> 00:53:08.354
And maybe it works particularly well because generalists love tools and love ways of, like, they're working in tech. They're working online, and they love, like, to make... They're, they're tool people.

295
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So, um, yeah, like, TBD on what the, like, actual, like, financial outcomes are, but I think even if there's very little financial outcomes, um, I think it's just a, uh, a cool way of, like, again, just, like, giving a different type of value very, very early on, as you said, when people are most excited- Mm...

296
00:53:29.304 --> 00:53:38.314
and most likely to open. Mm-hmm. Um, another thing about these, these different tools, these different brands, this summer school, uh, the Summer School of Generalist Skills you referenced earlier, currently ongoing.

297
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Uh, I think in your LinkedIn post announcing it, you were framing it and the sponsorship, partnerships, probably more like partnerships around it, as really this coup that you'd been trying to pull together for a while.

298
00:53:49.424 --> 00:53:54.794
And I think there was, like- Mm. Mm... I, I don't know if it was all eight of those brands, but some of the ones listed, Notion, Canva, Lovable.

299
00:53:54.834 --> 00:54:09.834
I don't know if they're all exactly partnerships, but, um, tell me what this summer school is, um, in terms of what it is both for your audience and how it adds value for them and also from the brand side, how you've brought in these brands and pitched it to them.

300
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Mm. Ah, summer school. So internally, when I say internally, we're such a small team. It's, like, me and Edgar. Uh, we have this rule of no new ideas because we're really- Mm. We love ideas.

301
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And so one day on a call, Edgar and I had an idea, and we were like, "Oh, dang. Rules are made to be broken."

302
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[laughs] And the idea was, um, I've spent all these years forming these relationships, as I mentioned, with these different brands. I have these different champions.

303
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Usually, how I know they're gonna be a champion is they say, "I'm a generalist." And I'm like, "Great. Come on in. Let's be besties." And the key is you don't ask them for anything at all.

304
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You're just like, "Let's actually be mates. Let's be pals. How can I help?" Mm-hmm. And so I've got all of these amazing brands in my inbox, but, um...

305
00:55:02.274 --> 00:55:09.854
And then we also have this, this crew of so many generalists who are hungry to learn. And we just...

306
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Edgar and I just thought summer school sounded cute, and then we were like, "Summer school of generalist skills is so hard to say but so adorable."

307
00:55:16.854 --> 00:55:31.902
Like, again, one of our experiments, and it's one that went bananas, that people firstly were like, "Millie, how have you got-All these brands. Like, how, how, how have you got these partnerships?

308
00:55:32.462 --> 00:55:39.282
It just takes a long time is the annoying- Mm... boring answer. Takes a long time to build these relationships. And we just pitched it.

309
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Like, "Hey, we have all these generalists who love learning, and would you be able to put together a really, um, valuable session teaching a generalist skill?"

310
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So it might be like we're having one on public speaking, we're having one on community building, we're having one on organizing your portfolio career on Notion.

311
00:55:59.172 --> 00:56:14.662
Um, so it's like a skill, then using the tool, so it's like a win for the company, right? Mm-hmm. It's like, okay, sure. Like, now we get to use Notion. And yeah, we, uh, launched it and we had one IRL event,

312
00:56:15.602 --> 00:56:26.822
which we've teamed up with Canva. Uh, again, I just had this relationship with someone from Canva, and I was like, "Hey, can we come and use your space?" And, um, so the, the IRL event sold out before we sent an email.

313
00:56:27.062 --> 00:56:38.882
I think it's 75 places, and it's giving Edgar anxiety. I think we have over 150 on the wait list- [laughs]... for that event. And people were like, "I'm gonna fly in from New York." And I was like, "No, no, no, no, no.

314
00:56:39.262 --> 00:56:53.942
Like, please don't. Like, we will run another one. Like, don't fly in across Atlantic." Um, that feels more stressful to me. [laughs] So we have the one that's in person, and then all the other ones are online.

315
00:56:54.022 --> 00:57:05.502
And yeah, there's like 500 people plus signed up for all of them and it's like, it's kinda funny because when you're building a business, at first you're like, "Ooh, what will I do?" And you have these ideas.

316
00:57:06.042 --> 00:57:16.542
And mostly you do what you thought you were gonna do at the beginning. That's what I've- [laughs]... discovered. We're like community, content, events. That's it. That, that's our bread and butter. Like- Yeah...

317
00:57:16.562 --> 00:57:25.962
that's what we thought at the beginning and that's what we have continued to do today. And for anyone listening, I'm not sure when this episode will come out, but, like, come along, join Summer School. It's totally free.

318
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It's gonna be a lot of fun.

319
00:57:27.432 --> 00:57:40.182
Um, but the next campaign we're gonna be doing is in September, which also started as a joke, like, a joke in the community where we were like, "We should have an International Generalist Day."

320
00:57:40.302 --> 00:57:50.722
And then we all cackled a little bit. We're like, "Oh, that'd be so funny." But then it happened, and everyone started rallying and they were like, "IGD, IGD."

321
00:57:51.562 --> 00:58:04.211
And it, it then became a completely out of control day, September 18th, and, uh, there was over 1,000 people all across the world who came together. Wow.

322
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And it, to me, the signal of both Summer School and IGD is that, uh, people, I think particularly generalists, but I think people, there is such a craving for being in person and being around other really genuine, nice, kind, smart, cool, interesting people.

323
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Um, and I think particularly for generalists, if they haven't felt like they've been able to fit in, if they've spent their entire career in spaces like trying to mask or, like, fit into a box, like, I completely resonate with that, and then suddenly you just get to come to this event and when someone asks, "What do you do?"

324
00:58:42.062 --> 00:58:51.442
They don't look at you weird when you're like, "All these things, and then some more." Um, so yeah. That's where we're at. Nice.

325
00:58:51.522 --> 00:59:00.202
Um, so you were just talking about content and, uh, I, we haven't really talked about the content side of it much. And so there's, there's two aspects here, the newsletter, um, and then the podcast.

326
00:59:00.292 --> 00:59:10.672
And so I wanna start with the podcast and then we can get into the newsletter. But the podcast, uh, so there used to be Generally Curious, which was hosted by you and Lindsay Lerner. Mm-hmm.

327
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And now for the past, uh, few months, I believe, it's been just Generalist World. And I know that one difference here is that- Mm-hmm... the Generalist...

328
00:59:18.582 --> 00:59:23.922
I don't know if this was true of the, of the Generally Curious podcast. I know it's true of Generalist World, is that the people you interview

329
00:59:24.862 --> 00:59:33.982
are all just members of the community, and so that seems like a pretty novel thing to me, where it's like it's really by and for the community.

330
00:59:34.542 --> 00:59:45.681
Um, and like it- it's serving this really, this really strong purpose of reinforcing the community. So tell me about these two podcasts and why Generally Curious became Generalist World. Yeah.

331
00:59:46.162 --> 00:59:57.662
So probably two and a half years ago, two, two and a half years ago, Lindsay popped into my LinkedIn. This is the wonderful thing about building a defensible brand. People come to you.

332
00:59:57.762 --> 01:00:08.562
And we basically hit it off, and she was like, "I have a background in podcasting. Um, I think Generalist World needs a podcast." And so we were like, "Let's just experiment with it."

333
01:00:09.012 --> 01:00:20.372
And so we ran this podcast for two seasons, which I think is about, like, 10, 15 episodes, something like that. And to be honest, like, we never quite found what it was about. Mm.

334
01:00:20.402 --> 01:00:29.102
Like, we were generally curious and we were interviewing people who were in the future of work, but we both never felt like, ooh, like, this is the thing.

335
01:00:29.162 --> 01:00:42.102
Like, this is the, um, source that makes us different from all the other podcasts. And it, it's a curious one, because we were getting fantastic feedback. Like, the podcast, people were enjoying. Um, but it,

336
01:00:43.142 --> 01:00:48.302
something just felt like it wasn't quite working. And so we were like, "Let's take a pause. Let's take a hiatus."

337
01:00:48.912 --> 01:00:59.442
And earlier this year, Linds- Lindsay stepped back from GW and has been focusing on her building her own thing. And I kinda had this realization

338
01:01:00.362 --> 01:01:10.142
that, um, why would I not just interview GW members? Mm. And I think founders... I, okay, can't say all founders.

339
01:01:10.272 --> 01:01:22.202
I go through this, where I just, like, overcomplicate it for the first bit, where I'm like, oh, let me, like, innovate on all these different things, where it's like, actually, the flywheel is

340
01:01:23.502 --> 01:01:33.378
people come into the community. We tell their story, especially when one of the big questions is, like, I don't know if I'm a generalist.How do I know what career path is right for me?

341
01:01:33.798 --> 01:01:45.858
I'm like, gosh, could it be as simple as... One of my favorite questions, what if it were as simple as interviewing Generalist World members? That then amplifies them. Great. Great for them.

342
01:01:45.898 --> 01:01:55.018
Highlighting them, using our platform to amplify them, and then using that every Friday, that becomes the newsletter, and we send that out.

343
01:01:55.478 --> 01:01:59.058
And then more people read it, and they're like, "Maybe I'll become a Generalist World member."

344
01:01:59.578 --> 01:02:11.668
And it's like, n- I think I went through the cycle of like, okay, I'm gonna overcomplicate it, and then you come back to the simplicity, and I found that simplicity is the thing that usually works. Mm.

345
01:02:11.678 --> 01:02:25.638
Simplicity is the thing, um, that you can do something sustainably and for a long time. And the... Oh, maybe an interesting story for folks is the... I wasn't sure if I wanted to do a podcast on my own.

346
01:02:25.878 --> 01:02:30.958
I was like, « Oh, I don't know. I really loved, like, podcasting with Lindsay. I don't know if, like, I wanna be the host.

347
01:02:31.528 --> 01:02:45.538
» And so I set this ridiculous, um, day where originally I was gonna do 12 podcasts in one day, and the theory, my thinking, was, uh, if I can do 12 in a day, I probably enjoy it.

348
01:02:45.638 --> 01:02:58.718
So as you can tell, I do things by extremes. Um, we ended up doing, I think we did seven. Seven or eight, and then I was quite literally on the floor. Like, I was, I, I gotta- That's exhausting. I gotta call it there.

349
01:02:58.738 --> 01:03:11.098
Mm-hmm. Um, but what... It's so exhausting. It was, it was too... And I realized that if I kept going, I was actually gonna do no justice to the episode. I was like, I made up 12, like, such a ridiculous number.

350
01:03:11.778 --> 01:03:26.838
Um, but while I was on the floor, like, just completely brain melting out my ear, um, I was like, wow, I still feel energized. Like, in my body, this still feels like it was a really, um, fun, amazing day.

351
01:03:26.958 --> 01:03:39.678
And so that was enough of a signal for me to be like, yes, let's keep recording. And so now, um, yeah, every Friday I release a new episode, and it's all with Generalist World members, which is like, it's so obvious.

352
01:03:40.038 --> 01:03:52.938
And often the right thing is the obvious thing. I'm gonna say that so that I listen back to it, like, all the times in the future. Keep it simple and go for the obvious thing. [laughs] That is, that is great advice.

353
01:03:53.138 --> 01:04:02.338
That's really good advice. Um, okay, so the last little bit about the newsletter. The newsletter is twice a week, and it's these, the, these, um, the, the interviews that, made from the podcast.

354
01:04:02.858 --> 01:04:18.278
Uh, and then, and then what? What is, what is the, what is the core function of the newsletter for Generalist World? Yeah. So every Tuesday we, uh, curate between 40 and 50 jobs. Mm. And we do this totally manually.

355
01:04:18.498 --> 01:04:27.418
Again, people are like, "You guys could probably find an AI for that." But the point is that we're actually scouring it and making sure they're a fit for this, like, generalist kind of archetype.

356
01:04:28.138 --> 01:04:38.758
Um, so people will get, every Tuesday, even if they're not job hunting, they're like, "Hmm, what's out there?" Yeah. Like, what are the jobs in this generalist world? Great domain name.

357
01:04:38.958 --> 01:04:52.168
[laughs] And so every Tuesday will be that. Every Friday will be the podcast. And then every now and again, and I make a point of not promising when they will be released, but I write essays. Mm.

358
01:04:52.198 --> 01:04:58.238
And those essays can take me months, truly months, to write.

359
01:04:58.378 --> 01:05:12.038
And they, they take months because the essays are always very long, and they're, uh, the result, the culmination of all these dots connecting, and I can't rush that, which is why I never promise, like, one essay a month.

360
01:05:12.538 --> 01:05:25.258
I've learned like, okay, the essay comes when the essay is ready to be written. Yeah. And so when the essay gets written, um, they usually do very well. Like, they... I still see, like, the generalist value pyramid.

361
01:05:25.598 --> 01:05:37.678
There's, like, the structural whole theory. It's basically just me and my hot takes ranting for, like, 2,000 words. Um, so they happen occasionally. Yeah. The...

362
01:05:37.948 --> 01:05:46.978
I, I re- I read the generalist value pyramid one, and it's very good. Um, okay, we are, we have been talking for a while, so I'll give you one more question and let you go. Uh, a little bit of a broad one.

363
01:05:47.017 --> 01:05:58.538
[laughs] Um, I'm curious about the future of Generalist World and a co- two things for context that I, that I read recently that, that really make me curious is, one, you... two recent posts on LinkedIn.

364
01:05:58.578 --> 01:06:16.258
One was about that you're considering selling a minority stake, uh, and then the other one was about, this one you just posted two days ago, or yesterday, uh, rather, as we record, um, planning for motherhood as a business owner and, like, what you're trying to do to prepare Generalist World for the possibility of you going on maternity leave.

365
01:06:16.318 --> 01:06:27.558
So these two things seem pretty combined. Um, you've been doing this for three years. Mm. Uh, what are you thinking about for the next few years of it? Like, do you, do you want it to be acquired?

366
01:06:27.658 --> 01:06:36.498
Do you want part ownership? How do you make this a th- It seems like you care about it a lot, and this is, you know, you're, you're very invested in it. Um- Mm-hmm... I'll stop talking.

367
01:06:36.638 --> 01:06:48.458
What is the next, what is the future of Generalist World over the next three years? I think finding out and, uh, leaning into my generalism literally changed my life.

368
01:06:48.468 --> 01:06:54.068
It has opened all these doors, and I've seen this happen for hundreds of people in the community.

369
01:06:54.728 --> 01:07:06.638
And so the vision for me is just to keep doing that, to build an absolute, like, um, beast of a workforce, of this generalist workforce, and I think we're uniquely positioned to do that.

370
01:07:06.698 --> 01:07:10.178
There's a lot of trust in the market. Um, so that's kind of on the generalist side.

371
01:07:10.218 --> 01:07:17.528
I'm like, I just wanna keep helping people do what we've been able to do and lean in and see that all the amazing things that unlock from there.

372
01:07:19.038 --> 01:07:32.998
As for motherhood, yeah, I was, um, crapping my pants to post that, to be honest, because I was like, « Oh my gosh, people are gonna think that I don't even care about my current baby,» which is, like, [laughs] weirdly Generalist World.

373
01:07:33.558 --> 01:07:47.782
Or people are, they're not gonna be so invested or they're gonna judge me.But I figured this is one of my philosophies with social is if I'm thinking it, probably someone else is. Mm. And it is...

374
01:07:47.822 --> 01:07:57.922
The most effective post is when you just say the quiet part out loud, and again, you're just being more honest. Uh, it's not being controversial. You're not doing it to, like, polarize.

375
01:07:58.002 --> 01:08:13.062
You're just saying the thing without mincing your words, and often that, like, resonates with people. Um, so how I see the future of Generalist World is an emerging thing. That's the answer.

376
01:08:13.102 --> 01:08:28.132
Like, I don't know where it leads. I don't know if we get acquired. I have a, my... I have, like, a, a body response to that of, like, a fear. I've, I've seen so few communities work, like getting acquired. Mm.

377
01:08:28.132 --> 01:08:46.122
Um, so, like, that freaks me out a little bit. But, um, in my perfect world, in my Generalist World utopia, this, this thing keeps going. This is just a sustainable, um, decade, decades long thing, uh, that evolves.

378
01:08:46.162 --> 01:08:58.692
And one way that that might happen is through the community- Mm... acquiring some, I, I don't know how it works, some kind of stake. When I posted that, there was a big response- Mm...

379
01:08:58.722 --> 01:09:09.522
from the community saying, "Yes, let us buy it. Yes, let us invest." So that's totally an option on the table. Um, but I kinda wanna prove that,

380
01:09:10.682 --> 01:09:24.102
um, business doesn't just have to be this, like, super capitalistic, um, extractive process. Like, it can be driven by community. Hopefully, it can be owned somewhat by community.

381
01:09:24.622 --> 01:09:33.562
And I also wanna prove that, um, I'm not a mom yet, I'm not a parent- Mm... but I would very much like to be, and I kinda wanna prove that you can do both.

382
01:09:33.622 --> 01:09:50.582
Like, I have a couple of role models, uh, s- some, like, mom and business owners, uh, but, like, not loads. I would love to have more, and I think that I could be part of the solution to, um, just telling that story.

383
01:09:50.962 --> 01:10:17.922
And I don't know exactly what that looks like, but if I could find ways to continue to grow the movement, continue to help lots and lots of people, hopefully even more as we progress, um, continue to help companies, uh, see that they don't have to squeeze people into boxes, and in fact, it can be in their best interest, just like the director of miscellaneous role, uh, to actually lean, help people lean into their generalism.

384
01:10:18.412 --> 01:10:32.762
And if I can do that while also having the time, life, freedom to be a parent, and not even just be a parent, but just, like, have a life, I think, like... Yeah. Uh, work-life balance is a funny one, but, um,

385
01:10:34.082 --> 01:10:46.722
it's so important to me- Mm... that this job, that this, that I don't, like, create just a, a job for myself where I am constantly working. It's like, okay, the whole point is freedom, and the whole point is autonomy.

386
01:10:46.902 --> 01:10:58.202
Um, so yeah. But the TLDR is I don't know, and I think it's absolutely fine to say that, that it's like this is emerging.

387
01:10:58.302 --> 01:11:07.922
And follow me on LinkedIn, because you'll be a part of the plot as it emerges and as I figure it out as well. [laughs] And that's Generalist World. Millie, thank you for coming on.

388
01:11:07.952 --> 01:11:19.902
[laughs] This was such a good conversation. Thank you so much. This was awesome. [outro music]