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Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast. Today, I'm speaking with Kaitlin Marie, who is known to her 1.4 million Instagram followers as Big Time Adulting.

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People love her for her unfiltered takes and stories about parenting and for voicing the frustrations and joys of being a mom. Kaitlin, in your own words, who is Kaitlin Marie, and what does she do? Oh, wow.

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What a, what a big question to ask of somebody, to- [laughs] It's a big one... uh, neatly describe who they are.

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Um, I guess, um, I am just a regular person who, uh, turned to Instagram for a creative outlet, and I was...

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Actually, m- um, the, the reason why I really got started on Instagram, uh, was because I had been writing a blog, if you will, about...

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It was really more of, like, an email correspondence to family and friends about my son, who was in treatment for leukemia, and I was hoping, um...

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You know, I was just really enjoying this writing process, uh, during that time and just putting a lot of my thoughts on paper and sharing with family and friends in a, you know, anecdotal, somewhat humorous way, given the content.

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Um, and, and I was a- approached by somebody who was a, an editor that lived in our town and sort of asked about would I be interested in a book and, um,

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at that time it was just me and writing these, like, kind of silly small blog emails. Not silly, but whatever.

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And, uh, and the, the publisher, the publishing company that she works with, um, was sort of like, "The, it's fine, you know, the writing is fine, but d- she doesn't have any following, so we're not gonna give her a book deal."

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Like, go kick rocks, you know? So I was like, "Well, maybe I'll start an Instagram page." And so at that point, I was, I was still working, I was pregnant with my third child. I had a, um,

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five-year-old who was in treatment for leukemia and a three-year-old, and I just, um... You know, I just, I had no fucks left to give.

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[laughs] And so I just came to Instagram and started sharing my inner thoughts on motherhood and the challenges of just really everyday life as a mom.

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Um, not really so much to do with, like, the deeper, more chal- challenging things that I was facing at that time with my son, but, um, just gave me this opportunity, I think, that, to be free and honest about all of the hard parts of being a mom.

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It was like a steam valve. Yeah. Yeah. So that's sort of who I am as an Instagram, you know- Personality... person, entity. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I'm a,

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a daughter, and a sister, and friend, and a wife, um, and, uh, all of that. So... The multifaceted Kaitlin Marie. [laughs] Um, okay. Lots to get to do there.

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First, though, wh- how did you land on the name Big Time Adulting? [laughs] What does big time adulting mean? I guess, like, at the time, I, I think adulting was sort of, like, this funny word.

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Like, people, "Oh, I'm, we're really adulting today," whatever. When you say at the time, too, this is, like, six years ago you started- Yeah... the Instagram account.

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Yeah, and that was actually the name of the, the, the name I gave my blog, so it was definitely- Yeah... 'cause I think Instagram was maybe r- closer to five years ago and, and the blog was about a year prior to that.

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So, um, and what I was doing, like, as I described, caretaking for my, my s- my sick son and my, my three-year-old daughter, and then my being pregnant with a third and, you know, all of the other stuff.

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I was like, this is what... This is big time adult- this is adulting. This is- Yeah... big time adulting. So- Not, like, stocking the fridge fully, whatever, hashtag adulting. This is like- Yeah... yeah.

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I was like, we were apartment hunting today, adulting. [laughs] Yeah. Um, so anyway, that's how I kinda landed on it. It was just a little bit of a humorous take on that trendy term. Yeah.

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Um, so going back to the very beginning, like, what you were doing at the start, like, what started it all is your son was sick and you started writing these emails that were, like, almost like a,

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a private newsletter to, like, friends and family keeping them in the loop about what was going on with your son and the health.

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And so, like, at the beginning there's that clear audience of, like, I don't know, a couple dozen or however many people who are very close to you in your life, um, and now it's 1.4 million people on Instagram, uh, plus however, however many others.

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Um, so I guess my question is, like, how has your audience... Who, first off, who is your audience today? Who would you describe your audience as today? Like, just parents, other moms? Who are they?

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Well, thanks to, uh, analytics features on Instagram, I know exactly who my audience is.

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Uh, it's mostly women, like, ages in, in, the majority are ages 35 to 44, and then, like, my next biggest age group is the 25 to 34 age range.

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And then I have a couple of youngsters and a couple of, you know, I don't know, I don't wanna say old timers, but, um- Seasoned... more mature- Mm-hmm... um, yes, generations. And, um, and they're, like, 95% women.

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Uh, and I assume, you know, m- of that, 99% parents or mothers. Um, so, uh, yeah, that's the sort of demographic- Mm-hmm... that I'm reaching. How has it- [laughs] How has it, like, evolved? Like, I mean,

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going from, again, like, that's, you know, now there's, like, w- 1.4 million other, like, women following you, and then at, at the start it was just a couple dozen people. Like- Yeah...

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I, I guess, like, at the beginning-Did it start to gain-- How did it start to gain traction once you, like, started the Instagram account? Yeah. And who were those people who were, like, engaging with the posts?

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Yeah, it's, it's, um, it's a good question. So, like, when I first started out, I was... my goal was to build an audience, and so I really had no experience in doing this before whatsoever.

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I am not, I was not a social media person in that type of world at all. So, um, very green when it comes to any of that stuff, and I didn't use any, like, services or people to help me

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sort of strategize on ways- It was just you... to grow an audience. Yeah.

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It was just me, but, I mean, I was doing plenty of my own research, just, like, reading all the articles I could find online about what to do, how to post, how frequently to post. And,

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you know, you get a lot of sort of, I mean, I guess maybe obvious and maybe not obvious to people answers of just, like, regular posting, um, posting frequently, um, frequently and regularly.

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So, like, in terms of time of day, all of that shit, you know? And, um, y- you know, being active on stories as well as posts and, um, connecting with like-minded accounts.

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So, uh, you know, commenting on people's accounts that were posting content that's sort of similar to yours in hopes of getting noticed by other accounts that either are following them or by that account itself.

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Like, oh- Did you-... who's this person? Did you start, like- That was a funny comment... sorry, did you start, like, building, like, I don't know, connections, relationships, like, kind of- I did...

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just natural community with other people? Yeah, tell me about that. Yeah. Yeah. So I started reaching out to other accounts who were, who were like mine, um, at least in, in theory, like, in terms of mindset, I guess.

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But- Mm-hmm... um, at this point, this was, like, prior to reels. It was all just posts on Instagram. So there was really, like, very, ver- very little video content.

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And a lot of the accounts that I was sort of interacting with were kind of meme-like accounts- Mm-hmm...

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about motherhood or just, like s- like, small written pieces that they had, like, original content of theirs, but just, you know, like- Text posts... one or two words. Yeah, text posts. And, um,

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I guess I just found a group of people that were, were similar to me and, and what happens is w- if you find people who are like that and who have, you know, accounts that are growing or that they're trying to g- grow,

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w- when your content is shared, that's how you grow. So, like- Mm-hmm... creating relatable content that can be shareable is the way to gain an audience.

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And so I kind of figured that out, um, in, in the way that I noticed that if I was interacting with a friend on Instagram- Mm-hmm...

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a like-minded account, if you will, and they shared my post, that I would get a certain number of new followers that day. And I was like, "Oh, okay. This whole thing kind of works."

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And then it got to the point for me where sharing other people's content wasn't really worth it for my account anymore because- You started to, like, break out of the pack a little bit? Yeah.

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Like, I just, my, my own content was getting shared enough organically that way that, um, it made more sense for me to just create all my own content and not, um, you know- Kind of make a brand...

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make it, like, a conglomerate of other people's content- Mm-hmm... and stuff. So that was maybe a couple of months in where I just started focusing on all my own stuff and, um, yeah, it's just...

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that's, that's the way it goes. You just... if y- I think if you do c- c- show up and consistently create content that is relatable enough, that people will share it and your audience will grow.

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And then there's some things that feel completely out of your control, like the algorithm. Yeah.

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It's like, I- I feel like all, all that's really in control is, like, like you said, like, posting frequently, high volume, consistently, and, like, everything else is kinda like... I mean, there's things you can do.

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But, um, anyways, I, I wanna talk about, like, again, one more thing about the evolution of the project before we move on. So when I was- Yeah... researching you, I saw kind of, like, 10,000-foot view, four chapters.

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Um, and tell me if you think this is right. So the first is early days, which is, like, 2017 to 2018. It's when you're writing those emails, you're starting to post them as a blog. Um, so that's the early days chapter.

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And then Instagram, you wanted to write a book, uh, but the publisher told you, "Build an audience first."

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You start an Instagram, all these text posts, this, the stuff you were just talking about, like, those early days of growth, and that's 2018 to 2020.

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And then reels, I think, is, like, chapter three, and that's probably '22 to 2021. Instagram introduces reels, and you, like, that's your niche. It's like you find your groove.

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And you're, like, you're doing your dances, you're, you know, telling your jokes, you're, you're saying, like, "Wow, mother, motherhood [laughs] is fucking hard."

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Um, and people love it, and people love you, and you really start to blow up. And I don't know the exact numbers, but that's chapter three, and I feel like that's kind of, has a lot of weight.

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And then where we are now, chapter four, is, like, you built that audience, and now it's turning that audience into a business. Um, this includes, like, the podcast, the newsletter.

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I think you've got a few other things up your sleeve that we can talk about later, um, probably when you start working with the agency. Um, so that's, like, 2022 to now.

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Is that, like, a fair assessment of, like, four chapters of your project? I would say that that is right on the fucking money. [laughs] I try. You did a great job. Yes.

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That's totally, uh, following the path that, that I've been on. Yeah. Yeah.

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Um, I'm curious then, like, the transition between chapters three and four, like, the reels where you really start catching fire, and then, like- Yeah... "Okay, I've got something. Like, I've captured this audience.

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Let's turn it into a business." When, when does that transition start happening, and how?Yeah.

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I mean, I, I was sort of mentioning this to you before we got recording about, like, my goal was never to become an influencer. Mm-hmm.

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So, um, it wasn't to get on Instagram, build an audience, and then start, you know, pushing a lot of other people's products to make money.

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Um, which is all well and good if that's what you wanna do, and it's definitely an effective way to monetize your audience. Um, it's just not what I had set out to do.

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Um, so I guess I have been playing the long game to a certain extent by not taking, um, very many or v- very few, if any, advertising- Mm-hmm...

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opportunities for probably the first four years.

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And, um, at that point, once I had a more significant audience size, um, you know, I was getting a lot of emails, just a lot of outreach and people, um, wanting to collaborate with you and do this or that and other things.

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And that's when I sort of started thinking about partnering up with an agency. Um, and I had found, um, these wonderful two women, um, [laughs]

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Kat Peterson and Sam Riley, who reached out to me from their very, like, bespoke, uh, agency that they run. They're Canadians and two moms, and they, uh, understand, like, my content- Mm... and who I am.

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Um, and they work very hands-on with the people that they take on, and had a, a lot of similar visions, uh, that I did. And when we spoke and, and it was just, like, a really lucky, awesome fit.

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So that was at the around a- about a year ago, a little over a year ago- Mm... when I started working with, um, Kat and Sam.

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And, um, and from that point on, that's really when my, my audience has sort of started to morph into a business. Mm-hmm.

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Um, I think, like, one thing I th- I always think about with, with creators is, like, there's, there's kind of two places you can come from.

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It's either the really crea- like, the pure creative side, which I would, I would characterize you as that. Like, just creative talent, and then there's, like, the business and marketing side.

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Um, and I think, you know, at a certain point you can build an audience off, like, pure creative talent, but then if you wanna keep it going, you have to either hire somebody who comes from, like, the business marketing side, which is what you've done with the agency, or, like, you upskill to that way.

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Um, but I think, like, it's... I don't know. I al- I always am really attracted to the stories of, like, the more creative side who then, like, hires out for that. Um, so two questions about that. Like, one,

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how did, like, what did hiring Kat and Sam, hiring an agency change for you?

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Like, immediately how, like, you know, let's say the, the first three months after you start working with them, like, how do things change for you once you start?

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And actually also, before you answer that, how many, how big was your audience, and then how did things start changing once you started working with them? Um, yeah.

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I think my audience size when I, when I signed on with Kat and Sam was maybe around half a million.

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I think it was just, I, uh, uh, it was a mental shift for me to take this leap into signing on with a partnership because it was me. It was not just, like... It was not just me doing my own creative thing anymore.

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Like, I was somewhat accountable, you know- Mm-hmm... at this point, and I'm, and I'm making a decision to take

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all of what I've built more seriously, which is hard because there is that, like, imposter syndrome that creeps in for you- Yeah...

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as a creator and as a creative person that way that's like, "Okay, I have these bigger ideas and I really wanna do them, and I think I can. But wait a second, maybe I can't. Maybe I suck at this.

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Like, maybe somebody else would be better. Why me?" You know? Yeah. And, uh, so that's definitely what happened for me at that time. And, and this is similar to, like, I played sports, like, in college- Mm-hmm...

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and stuff.

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And so I, um, I think it's, like, s- similar to, like, that athlete mentality where you kind of, like, could psych yourself out a little bit before a game, and then at some point you just have to flip a switch and be like, "Fuck it."

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Yeah. You know? "I'm just gonna go out there and leave it all on the field and do my best and hope for a win," you know? And if, if this one thing isn't a win, then I'm gonna learn from that loss and- I love, wait.

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I ju- I love that you said this, 'cause, like, I l- well, I interviewed somebody last week.

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A few times I've, like, asked people, people who I talk to who are athletes, like, I feel like it's a very similar mindset to, like, athlete being a creator. Um- [laughs]...

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so I love that you brought it up organically 'cause that's, like... Yeah. [laughs] Anyway, sorry to interrupt, but fully agree. No, it's, yeah, it's great.

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I mean, that's, there's just so many wonderful ways to use sports for life analogies. But, um, anyway, yeah, that's kind of where I was mentally at that time- Mm-hmm... and, um, where I still go,

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uh, you know, every now and again because there is so much that does feel a little bit out of your control as, like, a content creator for social media. It's like- Yeah... this

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Instagram as an entity is something I have no control over, right? Like, sometimes- Yeah...

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like, there was one day in the, at the, towards the end of last year, the year before, I forget now, [laughs] that my account just, like, disappeared for a day. Like, it was just gone, you know?

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I wasn't, I wasn't, like, in the doghouse. I li- I didn't, like, violate anything. No shadowban or anything. Yeah. But it was just... No.

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It was just, it was, there was some, you know, glitch within the, the Meta system and- Yeah... and my account was, had disappeared. And I was like, "Well, I guess that's it," you know?

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[laughs] "On to the next thing or whatever." And, uh-And then, you know, a few hours later there was news articles popping up- Mm... like Instagram experiencing blah, blah.

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So I was like, "Okay, so I guess maybe I will get my account back and- Yeah... and, and keep going," you know?

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But it's- And now you're advertising for Meta, so that's the, that's the whole weird thing [laughs] Yeah, I did a Mother's Day campaign with Meta, so yeah, which feels nice because I've been able to meet some people who work for Meta- Mm...

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and it's nice to have like a person-to-person contact with this sort of vague entity. Well, I... No, this reminds me, somebody I spoke to like a month or so ago, this guy Ryan Broderick, he's kind of a tech journalist.

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Um, he is a tech... not kind of, he's a tech journalist. Uh, anyways, he was describing, I asked him like what does it mean to be a creator?

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And his kind of pithy instant one-liner, which I kind of agree with was, it's you're, you're an Uber driver for posts basically.

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[laughs] Which is just to say that it's like this entity and you're kind of like, you know, you're generating revenue for them sort of, but you're also like doing something for yourself.

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And, I don't know, it's this like strange relationship of like being a gig worker for content in a way. Um, anyways, I wanna go back to audience stuff for a bit. Sure.

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I'm really curious about your relationship with your audience. Mm-hmm. Because like looking through your Instagram posts, um, the comment sections are all very active.

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Um, and it's people who are saying like, "Thank you for this." Like, "Same." Like, "You're keeping it real. I love this." Like, "Wow, I'm so glad I found you." Um, so rabid fans, uh, uh, I, I guess.

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Tell me more about your relationship with your audience, maybe on both kind of that mass level, like as a, as a whole, um, but then I'm also curious about any individual like interactions you've had and such. Um, yeah.

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So on the mass level, I would say I feel like

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90-plus percent of what I ex- I experience in the comments section and in my DMs is very positive, supportive, validating, awesome community. And, um,

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you know, it's funny because going into this, I don't know if it's like my age or just

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a thing in general, like I wouldn't have ever expected to have really genuine connections forming with anyone via an online relationship, like via a social media. I mean, I understand- Yeah...

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how people meet like on dating websites and stuff like that. That's like a, "Okay, I'm interested in this and you're interested in this, like, let's get together," whatever. But social media is just like we don't...

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I'm not here to date you, you know? Yeah. We're a bunch of moms, so we're just but commiserating. But, um, yeah, so there's, there's definitely that like wonderful,

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um, supportive, validating feeling that I get from seeing a lot of what the people who are following me say on my posts or- Mm... write to me privately on a DM. And then...

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or even sometimes email me or something, which I can't always get to everything, but I try to read a lot of it. It's a lot of people. Um- I can't imagine even getting to all of that. It's a lot of people, yeah.

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[lips smack] And then, um, then there's the negative side that there's always gonna be some

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portion of the interweb who does not like you or they are a bot or something random out there, um, just being nasty in the comment section.

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And that's something that when I started out used to get under my skin a lot more, and now I can just completely laugh about it and not engage. And it's, it's like I'm, I'm like, "It's you, it's not me. It's okay."

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And I don't have to... And not everybody has to like me. It's like it's okay, you know? Like, I've come to terms with that I, I... you can't be everybody's cup of tea. Yeah. And you don't... I don't wanna be.

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[laughs] Yeah. No, I mean, I, again, I think that goes back to like why you've been successful is like you, you don't give a fuck, as you literally say- [laughs]... uh, so often.

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[laughs] Um, I think too, like with, with the trolls, I couldn't...

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I didn't like search so deep, but I looked at like, I don't know, five or six different posts looking for, for troll comments on your Instagram, and I couldn't find any.

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And I wasn't sure if it's like you were deleting them or it's just so few. No, I let it rip. Let it rip. I'm like all press is good press, whatever. Yeah. Um, but I, I guess- I couldn't find any. Uh, there are.

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There are some. Yeah. Like, I don't know, it's just funny, today I was scrolling through like my feed, whatever, uh, updates, likes- Mm... comments, things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um,

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what did I see somebody had written?

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I had done a post a few weeks ago that's gone pretty viral about travel sports and, um, how, how all-consuming they are and the, the w- the audacity of the timing of these sports games to be like a- at night, on the weekends, and, and how I was gonna start to just like hand out martinis on the sidelines and stuff- [laughs]...

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for parents. And, um, [laughs] somebody- Tiptops Skinny Cocktails, they're great. Great martini. [laughs] Yeah. Somebody wrote, "Today you look like an alcoholic." [laughs] And I was just like l- I just like...

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It was like 6:00 in the morning. [laughs] I opened it up. I had just woken up and I was like just laughing my ass off in bed at that. I was like, "I don't know, maybe I do look like an alcoholic"- Yeah...

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[laughs] because I look tired all the time on these posts, but- Yeah... or it's just, you know, it's one of those things that there are bots and like- Yeah...

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like, um, comments that are like purposefully nasty to engage you and whatever, so. Yeah. I got a comment on one of our reels today that was just like mid. I was like, "Well- [laughs]...

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I'm not gonna comment on that," you know? Yeah. "That's what you want." Um, anyways, I wanna go back to audience growth stuff.

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So we, we've, we've covered a little bit of this already, but I wanna get a little more granular. So-Zero to 1.4 million on Instagram in, uh, [lips smack] a little- it's, like, five and a half years now. Yeah.

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Um, and I, I, I did the math. As of yesterday, you had sent 1,033 Instagram posts in 1,985 days. So 0.52 grid posts every day for five and a half years. That's a lot. Um- Oh, sorry, what is that again? A zero point what?

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Uh, zero- Five two? Zero point f- basically every other day. Uh, yeah. 0.52 grid posts. Yeah. Yeah. In, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. Um- Yeah... anyway. Oh, wait, wait, what were you gonna say? I don't know.

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It is a lo- I, I mean, I love that you have this information. It's wonderful. Um- That's, that's, I gotta, you know? Yeah. Um, I don't know. Go ahead. Okay, yeah. Ask your question. And then I'll- Yeah, yeah... yeah.

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Um, [laughs] okay, so, so I was looking for, you know, breadcrumbs of, like, when was your following this, this amount. And so right now it's 1.4.

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I think you said when you started working with the agency, it was, um, of, like, about 500,000, and that was- Mm-hmm... about a year ago. Mm-hmm.

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Um, I saw that in June l- or so last year, you had one, you'd hit one million. Um- Mm-hmm... so you've grown already 40% in just under a year. Um, and sounds like it was, like, 100% in just a few months- Yeah...

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at that point. Um, and then I think the last thing I found was, like, 2020, so right when Reels were launching, you had 70,000. Um- Mm-hmm...

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so we don't have to, like, comb through all that step by step, but what I am curious about is if there were any inflection points when it was, like, you were kind of, you know, just steady and then boom. Steady, boom.

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Whatever. Any big moments where you were like, "Damn, I just grew a lot," and why? Um, like, September or October, end of September 2022, I, I think I was maybe around

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100,000 followers or something like that, and by July of 2023, I had hit a million. So it was, like, kind of like getting 100,000 followers a month for a while or something around something like that. Wow. Yeah.

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[lips smack] So that was 100%, like, the time of the most explosive growth of, um... I always had a really high engagement rate, so I had a lot of people commenting and a lot of people liking, um, my posts

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since the time that I, that I started. Um,

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so I always felt kind of good about that, and I think that that always kind of also kept me going and kept me motivated to keep posting 'cause I wasn't really focused on, like, an end goal of what an audience size would be in my mind at all.

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Just sort of- Mm-hmm... focusing, focused in more on creating content that, that my current audience was enjoying.

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And then at some point, at that point in, in 2022, in, like, the fall of 2022, my, my account just really began to explode.

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It was, like, one viral post that went bigger than any other post I had ever made, and- Were you posting more, or was it, it just kind of- No... the algorithm shifted? I think I was posting less, honestly. Um,

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you really go through ebbs and flows that way as a- Yeah... creator, too.

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You know, it's like m- maybe you're just, like, not coming up with as many ideas this week as you had last week, and it's all spontaneous, and, like- Mm... you don't really have control.

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It's one of these things where sometimes I'm like, "Am I ever gonna, like, run out of shit to say?" You know? Like, I don't know, um, what I'm gonna post about next week.

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You know, it's just, it's all off of the cuff pretty much. Mm-hmm. So, um, s- pretty spontaneous. But, um, if I don't have something to say, I don't force it. So- Yeah...

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um, when you said about the 0.52 posts a day- Per day. [laughs]... um, it's, it's definitely not, like, always been every other day. Like, sometimes, at the beginning I was posting, like, so frequently.

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Sometimes I was posting more than once a day. Mm-hmm. And then by, by that point, maybe, like, sometimes, now I usually post maybe, like, twice a week, three times a week or something like that, so.

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But if I feel like I want to post more, then I do. And then if I don't, then I don't. 'Cause at this point it's, um, I don't, I don't know that, like, the frequency is as important for me as- No... as it once was.

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I mean, you've got the audience, and when you, when you send out the signal, you know, [laughs] they're there to comment and to love you. Well, no, you know, I don't wanna be cocky. I have to- No, I mean-...

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still cre- yeah, but I- Let me be cocky for you. [laughs] Um- Uh- No, I don't know. I think I, but I, I mean, in all seriousness, like, not to be, like, you know, braggy about it, it's like, that, that is the thing.

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Like, you've built the audience. You've built the expectation. You've built the brand. It's like you don't need to, you know, obviously it would be great to grow your audience more, and, and you will.

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But it's like that's not necessarily the major priority anymore. At a certain point, you don't need to play the same game that you played five years ago. Um, anyways, on to the next thing. Podcast. So you have- Mm-hmm...

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a podcast that I think you've done 50 episodes of. Maybe there's one or two more, um, that were deleted or something.

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But y- I think you started it in November 2021 and did about, a little inconsistently, like, one to four a month until you stopped two months ago. I don't know what the story is there.

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So tell me why you started the podcast. Um, and if you have stopped, why? Yeah, so I, I started the podcast because, for, for mult- a couple of reasons.

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I think number one was that I felt like I would enjoy sharing a little bit more long form content. Mm-hmm. Like, just being able to get a little bit deeper into topics of, that, you know, ignited me.

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And, uh- 'Cause this was, wait, let's real quick. This was, like, a year, you started it, like, a year after you'd started doing Reels.

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So this is, like, a year into, like, you really finding your groove of your kind of spoken word videos, correct?Yeah. Yeah. As I guess, yeah.

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I can't, I honestly can't remember, but I believe you because you seem to know a lot about this, which is interesting. I love it. Too much. No, it's cool.

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Um, and yeah, so anyway, when I started it, it was just really for fun.

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I had like a random, like, producer that I had never met that I would just, you know, upload my episodes to, and she would, I don't know, tinker with them a little bit and put them out into- Put them through the machine...

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the universe. Yeah. Um, [laughs] put them into the idea machine. And then, um, [laughs] anyway, I, uh, I just was like kinda having some fun with that- Mm-hmm... but then it, it, it was nothing I had ever like...

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It was really just for me. I didn't even know, you know, I wasn't watching the analytics of it or any of that. I just was talking and having random guests come on.

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And then, um, I stopped ag- for a little while, and it just, I don't know, I just like lost the fervor for it.

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And about the same time or, or similar to around the same time as I was, um, linking up with Kat and Sam, somebody, another podcast producer had reached out to me about working together, and she really just was just like, "I lo- I really love your Instagram content.

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I saw you used to have a podcast.

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I'd love to help you get it back up and started," and just like coming from an incredibly altruistic place of just wanting to work together and, and help me get a podcast up and running again.

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So we did that, and that was about a year ago. And, um, we sort of just where we've tinkered with like a few different formats for it and, and, um, ideas on how to make it better and change it and, and, uh,

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acquire like a more viral listening, um, situation because it's really, pod- podcasting's hard. Like you, it's hard to- I know it. Yeah, yeah.

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So it's hard to like, m- you know, you can, you can have your core audience or however many people that is that will come back and listen to you every week because they just like to listen to you.

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Um, but to, to really break, break out and grow beyond that is, it takes something different. You know, you have to do something different. So it's sort of toying with ideas of things to do that way. Um,

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and, a- and to, you know, in, in my mind, like maybe an angle, like what... It's kind of like, "Okay, I have this audience. What am I gonna do with it? What is gonna be the thing for me?" Um, so,

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you know, I've, I've toyed with podcast as one of those things that could be the thing.

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Um, but at the end of the day, I think it was like just taking up a little bit more time and, and creative energy for me that I felt like was maybe better channeled somewhere else. Um,

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so I am on a podcast pause right now, but I feel like I could come back with it, but I would probably come back with a podcast in like a totally different capacity.

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Like, not really just breaking down stuff about motherhood and stuff. It would have, it would have some sort of a unique angle- Yeah... to it.

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Um- That makes se- I mean, it's like as your, your concept evolves, as you turn this into a business, it's like now you're in the stage of like, "Well, what is the really monetizable thing- Yeah... that I do?

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Like, what, what about me can I really sell other than just like to millions of people watching me on Instagram?" Um, what, is the, is the...

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Like, the logical, you know, next step i- in that that I see is, is the newsletter, which, um, to my... I mean, when I looked on your Beehive archive, I saw that you've had it up since, um, February.

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You've done it like every Tuesday since February. Have you, did you start it before, or is that, was that like the origin story? No. That's, um, so we did a little bit of a, we were on Squarespace for- Mm...

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a few months prior to moving over to Beehive. And, um, originally, um... So I'll go back. Let me rewind just to say one last thing about the podcast- Oh, yeah...

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and like the platform a- as a p- as a platform and, and just sort of what you were saying at the beginning of this, which is I think what, what a lot of creators or people in like the multimedia whatever business will understand, that it's nice to have a diversified way to reach your audience, right?

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And this, this whole concept of a flywheel of like- Mm-hmm... you push your, your one, your newsletter people to your Instagram and your Instagram people to your podcast and, and w- whatever, you know?

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And you've got the ads and the Instagram and the newsletter and the, the products that you- Yeah... blah, blah, blah. The flywheel. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, and then some people, not everybody wants to be on...

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S- people may be taking breaks from social media. Mm-hmm. So like, they can come check you out on your, your newsletter or your- Mm... podcast if they want.

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So to have like multiple avenues of ways to, for people to consume your content, if you will. Mm-hmm.

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Um, so with that, and because I like to write so much, we were, we, we talked about, you know, this idea of a newsletter, but I always felt like the word newsletter was like, ugh, that's like a homework assignment.

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Like- Yeah. And then like I, and you know, moms are just so busy. Like, who has time to read a newsletter, you know?

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So my thought was originally to maybe just do this like once a month, more publication almost like a, a, like a, like a magazine. E-magazine. Yeah, an- Yeah... e-magazine. Um, which was good.

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I think that people really liked that, too. Um, but in terms of like creating a business around it, um,

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it seemed like having a more regular publication, once a w- like weekly type thing-Keeps people a little more engaged Mm-hmm Um, which is just something that we're, like, kind of playing with.

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And I'm, and I'm not even sure that that's the answer, but it also... So basically then, to put something out weekly is a little bit more of a heavy lift. Yeah, I know. So, um,

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we, we kind of paired down the content a little bit to sort of just

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share in, like, a linking way rather than sort of a more editorial way to a couple of other pieces of content that might have shown up in, like, the e-magazine format, but a little bit more along... Anyway. Yeah.

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This is... I feel like I'm being so- No, no. [laughs] Well, uh, so let's get into the newsletter then. Yeah.

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So I, I r- I read through all the issues that you've put out so far, which I think is, including today, it's 14. Um, at least the ones on Beehiiv. Um, I- it's like, it's, it's like a missive from you.

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It's like a little update, you know? Which, like, newsletters can be so many different things and, and that's what I talk about here. But, uh, I think yours is, like, is really...

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W- what a newsletter is, is it's a one-to-many email. Mm. You know, whatever your newsletter i- that's what it is. That's what all newsletters are.

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It's one person or one organization, whatever, sending a newsletter to e- you know, however many people. Addressed to a group. Um, and yours is just very chill.

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It's just, like, the same voice that, like, you have on social media. It's, it's, it's your character really comes through. Uh, and then it's like a few links.

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And one, one thing I try to do with my newsletter is, like, consistent but not predictable, and I think that's something- Mm...

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you nail as well, where you have the, um, I forget what you call the little sect- What's the little section called at the end with, like, the links? Oh, oh. Wait, I have it here. I, I don't know. I got it.

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We gotta say it. It's, uh, there's, it's [laughs] There's More. [laughs] There's More. There's More. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And your There's More section- Yeah... is always different.

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Like, you've got Make, Listen, Home, et cetera. Um, I don't know. And now I guess I'm just rambling about what your newsletter is.

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I think it's, it's a good concept that's consistent but not predictable, uh, which is what I think newsletters should be. Um- Hm. Good to know... few questions about it. Yeah. Yeah.

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Well, this, you know, my little, my theory. Um- Yeah... a few questions about it. What does the newsletter do for you? Like, in the way...

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Going back to that quote I shared that was your quote from, like, a year ago about, like, this whole thing giving you this autonomy and this purpose. Um, what does the newsletter do for you? [smacks lips] Yeah.

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So it's a different way for me to share a thought, I would say. Like, similar to, it's, I guess long-form written... It's not that long and it's, like, it's a quick read. Mm.

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But it's written content, so I get a chance to sort of examine a thought a little bit more- Mm... deeply.

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Um, which is sort of similar to what I was saying about why I did the podcast, to, like, examine those thoughts a little bit more deeply- Yeah... and talk it out a little bit more.

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This is a, is more brief, the newsletter's more brief than, you know, a one-hour podcast or a 30-minute podcast or whatever it was. But, um, I just, I just like, I like to share that way.

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I like to create that type of content, and I enjoy writing so much- Mm... that, um, it felt like a really easy thing for me to do in w- in a way.

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It's one of those things where you, you do it until it doesn't work for you- Yeah... you know? Like the podcast. Yeah. Um- That does, kind of makes sense. But it's also, like, it's a business experiment as well. Mm-hmm.

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So it's, um...

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And, and I'm going into it with the same mindset as I did with starting my Instagram, which is just that I'm gonna put some content out and create some content that is authentic to me, that I enjoy creating.

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And if you build it, they will come, right? If, if, if it, if it, if it is good, you know? Yeah.

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If people do like it, then they'll continue to come back and open your newsletter and enjoy the content that you created for them. And I don't know what's gonna happen with it.

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Um, it's a free newsletter that I have not monetized yet, so, um, we'll see. Where that goes. Where that goes. Uh- Yeah... c- couple of more questions about that. One, like, so if you build it, they will come.

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How are you attracting them to the newsletter? Is it just like, like I saw today, newsletter came out today. You had a little video. You're like, "Check it out.

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I have this funny review about leggings in the newsletter today. Here's the link." Is that basically it? You just, like, in your stories, you put it out there and people come? Yeah.

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I talk about it, like, once a week in my stories, which is, you know, as often as it, it comes out. So another thing I've been doing is getting the audience involved- Mm...

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with creating playlists, which has been fun, 'cause I'll give them a theme and then, like, put a question or, like, in a comments box on a story where they can share a song of their choice.

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And then at the end of the day I'll, I'll go through and create a p- a playlist based off of the audience requests. And, um- Yeah...

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I think that's kinda fun, 'cause people can come and see if their song is on the playlist.

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And I had to make a little announcement about that recently, because you get so many requests that, like, I would be making a playlist till next Tuesday- Yeah... uh, if I put them all on there. But, um, so I had to...

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And you have to curate it a little bit. It can't- Yeah... like, the, the music choices can't hop around too much or else it's like a, you know, little bit schizophrenic. You gotta, you gotta be the DJ.

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Well, I think the- Yeah... so this playlist thing too, I thought that was really interesting.

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I've haven't really seen anybody do this before where it's like, it's like you've got your Spotify page I think has, like, 1,200 followers, and then you've got seven public playlists right now.

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I think they each have, like, anywhere from, like, 300 to 800 followers. Um, and so I, I was really curious to learn more about this. I feel like music is so much part of your thing.

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Because when I was, like, looking around interviews, et cetera-Your dancing videos come up a lot. People love... This is like one of your, one of your things.

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[laughs] Like, you do your, like, crazy dances, and it's this whole thing about, like, Caitlin expressing herself and, like, being just, like, unabashedly you, right?

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And so I think music is tied up in that, which only occurred to me as you started talking about this, is, like, that being such a way for your audience to connect with you and relate to you.

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Um, and I really like this user-submitted thing. Um, I guess I don't know if, uh, there's a question in here, but I, as- I've never seen anybody do that before. I don't know.

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Do you have anything more to say about the playlist? Um, it was just... It is one of those things where because I just dance around like a maniac so often, um, on social media, that people would ask me for my playlists.

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You know? There you go. "What's that song? Where's your playlist? I want your playlist." And so I figured that adding that as, like, a piece of content to a newsletter, um, would be,

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um, an attraction for people to come and- Give the people what they want. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. So, and who doesn't want just, like, it's fun, easy. Yeah. Check out this playlist. Why not, you know?

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Um, so that was part of... That was, um, uh, something that I thought would be a good incentive. No, that's awesome.

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Um, last question about the newsletter, as much as you're comfortable sharing, I would love to hear stats. Um, subscribers, open rate, click rate for the newsletter. Yeah. Let's see.

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I actually, I have up-to-date stats- Oh-ho. Okay. Right- Let's go... here for you. All right. So active subscribers, uh, 20,000. A little over 20,000. About 20,336.

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Not about. Exactly. That's exactly it. Um- That's pretty good for promoting once a week on your Instagram story. Yeah. I think that I was [laughs]

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I think I should probably be promoting it a little bit more often, um, which is something that I'm not good about. Yeah. I'm not good about, like, self-promote, promoting anything.

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So, but I really enjoy the newsletter, and it's, like, a piece of free content for people. Mm-hmm. So I shouldn't feel bad pushing it. Um- No.

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The, my advice to you, uh, s- I didn't come up with this, but it's something I think about a lot. You, uh, don't kill the part of yourself that's cringe. Kill the part of yourself that cringes. Ooh, yes. Okay.

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[laughs] I like that. I've never heard that before. It's good advice. Good stuff. Ah, kill the part of yourself that cringes. That's good. I mean, I should... I, you would think that I am pretty good at that- [laughs]...

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given that you've seen me dancing around on my Instagram before. [laughs] Yeah. Um, and then, uh, click rate, 17%. I don't know what that even means, though, to be honest. That's incredibly good. The- But I don't have...

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What does that mean? What is the click rate? Mm. It, so what that is is the percentage of people who opened the newsletter, um, who are then clicking on any link in the newsletter. And the industry average- Okay...

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is, like, 2%. Oh, okay. Great. So you're good. Well, I don't have that many links. That's not, that's not true. I mean, I'm looking at [laughs] today's issue. [laughs] And okay, let's count.

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We have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Oh, all right. Much more than usual. Well, this is unusual- Much, yeah... 'cause this is... Yeah. Um- But you usually have, like, three to five in- Yeah...

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the There's More section, which is- Yeah... I mean, that means that, like, people are appreciating what you're put- 17% is very high. Okay, good. Great. Honestly- What about the open rate?... wonderful to know.

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Um, so my general open rate is, hovers a little over 70%. Also incredibly good. Um, that's, like, I think industry average is, like, 30 to 40. Okay. Wow, yeah. Yeah. So that's great. Cool. Um, I didn't- [laughs]

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Feeling really good. Um, yeah, see, like this is, again, so another thing that I guess this goes back to what I was saying about, like, my Instagram, um- Mm-hmm...

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originally, which is, uh, because I have my agents, they know this stuff. I don't know these, like, analytics and the numbers. Yeah. But they're like, "It's going great. It's going really well for you."

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So, um, I know from them. I have, uh, you know, a certain amount of confidence about the, the numbers or that people are enjoying this content. Mm-hmm. Right?

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So it's, like, similar to analyzing what your engagement rate would be on Instagram. So,

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you know, while I don't compete with top newsletters right now with, um, audience sizes, I feel like if I keep producing content that I enjoy producing, that people like, that maybe it will get there. Yeah.

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So, um- I mean, and, like, all the different pathways you could follow and, like, things this could become. Like, clearly there's a demand for your voice in newsletter form. Like, I don't know.

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The, maybe you become, like, the next, like,

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talk show, talking head expert on parenting and, and then you have, like, a 200,000 subscribers to your twice weekly newsletter about, like, all of the things young parents need to... I don't, I don't know.

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I'm just rambling here. Yeah. Let me know if you are putting together a show. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] You can, uh, you can- I'll be happy to- You can approach me from beehive, uh, consulting...

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I'll be happy to interview [laughs] for the role- Yeah... of host. Yeah. Um- Um, I would love to sh- host a TV show actually. It would be so fun. Yeah.

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Uh, I, so I wanna get into that kinda thing shortly, but before we do, last thing about kinda current state of the business. Um, how do you monetize, just across your whole project?

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What are some of the different ways you monetize? Yeah. So right now, uh, the, uh, number one form of monetization for me are the few brand de- deals- Mm... that I've accepted.

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Um, I, I really have only worked with, um, a pretty small number of brands. Um, and, and, and I'm fairly particular about who I will say yes to, uh, which- It has to be something you like?

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It's gotta be something I like and that has, like, that-I, I believe there's integrity to the, to the brand itself.

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Um, like say there's like a brand that has like multiple products under its, um, umbrella and I'm not a huge fan of every single one of their products or whatever personally just for taste reasons or something like that Mm-hmm...

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um, uh, if the brand, I feel like if, if there's integrity behind the brand, I'm still good with like partnering with a brand like that if I, if I actually enjoy something that they produce or make. Um- Yeah...

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yeah, so that's my number one way of monetization right now. Um, and then I'm breaking into some other things like speaking engagements, which is cool Mm-hmm...

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um, I, uh, should be doing, having some book news pretty soon. Um, the speaking gigs, have you done any of those yet? How have those been like?

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Uh, yeah, I've done a, I've done a, a handful of those types of things and, um, I enjoy that a lot. Mm-hmm. I like, I, I kinda like a live audience. It's fun, gets, gets you excited.

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And, um, and then which is also surreal because you're behind... I'm behind my phone all the time, you know? Yeah. So it's nice to actually be in front of people.

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And then, um, yeah, I should be ha- I should have some news about a book pretty soon, and, uh, which is pretty awesome and then I'll have to like really sit down and write a fucking book. Uh [laughs] Yeah.

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Easier said than done. But I'm honestly, I'm very much looking forward to, to that right now, which is a, a really easy thing to say for somebody who hasn't started writing their book yet, but [laughs]

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Well, no, that, that's awesome though and I, I was curious to ask about that because like everything I could, all the interviews I found with you, et cetera, like back to the very beginning, I mean, that's why you started the Instagram account.

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Yeah.

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You wanted to build an audience for a book and then like a few years into it, some interview from I think three years ago or so you were like, "Yeah, I still wanna write a book, but like I don't know when, when I'm gonna have time to write a book."

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Um, so it seems like it's, it's kind of your white whale, uh, so [laughs] it's cool to hear that- Yeah... it's coming to fruition. Yeah. It feels, it feels very cool. It's one of those things that, um, again, with like

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imposter syndrome and stuff like that- Mm-hmm... like why, you know, do I really need to write a book? Why do I need to write a book with...

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But, um, it's not that I need to, it's just that something, I feel like it's just something that I w- have wanted to do, and that- Yeah... there's no time like the present. It's now.

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Um, so yeah, and then, uh, I, I hope to also be able to turn w- what I've built and maybe like a little bit of who I am and who I stand on, who, who I

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am reputation-wise to people- Mm-hmm... however, whatever that is, that I can build sort of a business around, around that in a way and, and do something that is, um, helpful for women, mothers- Yeah...

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business owners. It's in the works. Yeah. You're figuring out what the, what the thing you have to give is in that really business- Yeah... business-ified way. [laughs] Yeah.

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And luckily I have great partners that I'm, that I'm working with and, and, uh, brainstorming all kinds of potentially big ideas. So we'll see. Nice. Um, okay, next question. Um, advice, advice lightning round.

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A few different questions. We'll, we'll go one by one. Uh, what's your advice to anybody just creating content for the internet generally, regardless of platform, topic, whatever.

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Advice to people creating content for the internet. Uh, my advice to those people is to pick a theme and be consistent. Good advice. I think the picking a theme, people never know what they wanna do.

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You gotta just, you gotta, you gotta be specific. It can always change later. How about specifically for Instagram? Is there any different advice or is it just same thing, just pick a theme and go?

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Yeah, I think it's the same thing. Um, I couldn't really speak to anything else. Oh. So- That's all it is. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you.

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I think that's the, the hard part about doing this series is I think at the end of the day the only piece of advice that matters is like just do it. Like- 100%. Like, there's nothing...

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Like, you could gather all of the information and all of the strategies and all the tips and tricks and industry secrets that you think that you need to start whatever it is that you're gonna eventually be ready to start- [laughs] Yeah...

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and, and none of it really matters at all unless you just start fucking doing it.

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How about is there anything you regret, um, the past six years, like something you should've done earlier or like, "I wish I never posted that video," et cetera? Any misstep you, you look back on? No.

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I will say something pretty cliche in this moment where it's just I think that like all mistakes are good mistakes in a way, that it's like if you, if you did do anything that was like

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cringey, if you will, I can't say cringe anymore 'cause you now have to cringe at your cr- No, no... cringe. Wait, what do you say? Don't- Some things are cringe. Yeah. Some things are cringe. Yeah. Don't kill me. Yeah.

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[laughs] Um, any of that stuff or, uh, you know, I don't think that there's any like content that... Okay, I will say actually now thinking of this, I think that there is like, um, this sort of feeling that, uh,

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some creators feel like they have to, and, and get a lot of pressure from audience to comment on anything and everything. Yeah. You know? So things that have nothing to do with your content. Um,

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and-I think that I, what, what I've... One thing that I would say that I, that I know now is that I will just kind of stay in my lane. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

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And just, um, not try to take on too much with offering my opinion or advice or any of that on anything that doesn't have to do with my regular stream of content, and, um, that just because you have a platform, I do not believe that that makes you obligated or accountable for speaking to everything that's happening.

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Yeah. Um, what is your then... I'm always curious. I would, I like to ask everyone this. What's your responsibility to your audience? Um, geez. I don't know that I have a responsibility

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to them at the end of the day, outside of, um... You know, I, I just, w- the one thing I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to sell anybody on something- Mm... that, that I couldn't stand behind.

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That's the only thing that I feel r- personally responsible for to-towards them, um, or that could be, like, potentially harmful. Um, so- Go back to the integrity. Yeah.

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But if we- beyond that, like, in terms of like, I don't know, not offending anyone or anything like that, I can't, I can't promise that.

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I can't, like, um, I can't promise that I'm always gonna say the right thing or, or- Mm... be the exact type of content that everybody needs at the time that they need it or whatever, 'cause that's just not possible. Um,

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but yeah, I think that those things that I could have control over is just, is probably my, my one area of responsibility as a content creator. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Okay. What is it?

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Five, six year- five and a half years of doing this, um, the Instagram side at least. Five and a half years from now, are you still doing it? Where are you with this? What's changed? What's the same? Um, yeah.

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I think that my goal would be in the next five years to

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be sort of independent from, um, or I should say completely non-dependent on Instagram. Mm-hmm.

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And to have kind of created something in and of itself outside of Instagram that, um, represents me as, um, a creator, as a business, and, um, as something that I can

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monetize without needing to push it via Instagram, and that I hope to be able to use Instagram,

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you know, strictly pretty much as a creative space for me to share things that make me laugh or that I just feel like I wanna share. [laughs] Yeah. That's good. Um, 'cause, like, the...

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You said the demographic, your main demographic is, like, like, you fall within it. It was, like, the 35 to 44, whatever.

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So, like, maybe in 10 years, the main graphic, the main demographic is 45 to 54 or whatever, and it, like, keeps growing up. I think that it will. I think that it will, I think that it will

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kind of be my demographic, like, who- Yeah... who I am. Um, that's who I will probably attract because I'm not, like, I'm not the toddler lady, you know? No.

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I just talked about h-how treacherous toddlers were when I had toddlers. You're not a little-time toddler. So... Yeah. Right. So, um, so yeah, it's, it's... That is something I'm not quite sure.

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I couldn't, I couldn't tell you exactly what my content will look like by the time, um- Possible... yeah. But I do hope to graduate from, from Reels one day, and that, um- Mm-hmm...

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and that maybe, you know, maybe the content at some point is scripted. You know? Maybe it's a- Yeah... it's a real piece of written entertainment that's on a screen or something. Yeah.

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I mean, I imagine you can't talk about this too much, but I did hear you say to another interviewer there's a, like, a scripted pilot in the works or something like that. I don't know what's going on there, but- Yeah.

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I've had, I've had conversations with producers and, and thoughts of, um, you know, maybe turning something into, um, a show or something like that. So- A sitcom or something... God only knows at this point. Yeah.

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One day at a time. Perfect. You gotta get through a book first. Well, you gotta get through a book first, which- Yeah... which could take a couple years, but, uh- Yeah... it'll be good. Um, all right.

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Where should the people find you? People mostly find me @bigtimeadulting on Instagram, all one word. Perfect. Um, cool. Well, this has been the Creator Spotlight Podcast. I have been your host, Francis Zear.

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Our guest today has been Caitlin Murray of, one more time, Big Time Adulting. Um, thank you, Caitlin, for joining us. Thank you, listener, for sticking around.

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And if you enjoyed this episode, it would help us out if you rated us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. I'll see you next week.

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