Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast. Today's guest is Cole Durocher. He is a designer with a lot of different skill sets.
I believe his main focus is product design these days, but he also does brand work, motion graphics, web design. Years ago, probably still, he was doing leatherwork, uh, so, you know, physical, digital. He does it all.
He's on the pod because he produces one of the most slickly designed newsletters I know called Today in Design, which is exactly what it sounds like, a daily design newsletter.
It's aggregation, minimal commentary, beautiful package. Cole, thanks for coming on. Uh, thank you for that, like, fantastic introduction. Um, and yeah, you've done your homework.
I wasn't expecting leatherwork to come up in today's conversation. It's at the bottom of your Instagram, the bottom of your, of your Tumblr. That's where I found it. Yeah, you're right. It is. I just, I can't escape it.
Yeah.
So I'm curious how you actually got into design because when I look at your LinkedIn, you initially went to university for, uh, international business, and then you got a BA in film studies, so that starts to make sense.
But yeah, how did like, where and why do, do those paths branch out towards what you do today? Um, yeah. So, I don't know, in high school, I was very, like, math was like my best subject, but I'd always been creative.
Um, and in high school, I just wanted to make lots of money, so I thought the best way to do that would be to study business and learn Chinese. And
yeah, first year, university was going well, um, but then accounting came up, and I just- [coughs]... couldn't like reconcile how you, like, categorize things- Mm-hmm...
which I've been exposed to it now, and it makes a lot more sense.
But, um, yeah, it was a real, like, hurdle for me to like wrap my head around it, and then I just didn't go to class, and- [laughs] The, uh, irony is my dad's an accountant. Mm-hmm.
Um, so I ended up switching courses and, and taking a, a little bit of a break just to figure out like what I wanted to do. I had always loved film, loved movies.
Um, it was like the one thing I knew the most about and was like always spending time either watching or learning about.
And so, uh, figured just, you know, I was gonna go back and wanted to get something, some sort of piece of paper, and so- [laughs]... uh, went back for film studies.
And yeah, uh, it was kinda close to the end of that that I wasn't really sure what I was gonna do with it. So in terms of like how I came on to design, I was coming to the end of film studies.
I wasn't sure what I was gonna do to sort of make money with it, but I kinda wanted to work in film and was exploring this sort of acting thing, and then came across design as being like this super flexible thing that I could do, um, if I needed to, like, go to auditions and stuff.
Mm-hmm. Um, this is totally random. I haven't thought about this in a long time. Um- That's why we do this. But yeah, and so like I, I, I had always drawn as a kid. I had always done stuff.
You know, some friend's baseball teams needed a logo for their jerseys, so like I did that. Mm-hmm.
And so I started to really like enjoy that process of like sitting down with them, understanding like what their sort of goals or what they were trying to like emulate were, and then like coming up with drafts.
And so, um, yeah, I pirated an Adobe Creative Suite. I don't think you- I feel like probably like 100%, maybe 99% of designers, like that's how they got, pirated Adobe in like the 2000s. Totally, like 100%.
I would not- I had it... be here if, like, if I didn't torrent, so. Yeah. Um, yeah, I did that, and then like went on Envato for tuts+ and just like ran through tutorials and picked up some odd jobs on Craigslist.
My first job was like a $250 paying gig, and I had to design like 50 dress templates for this startup- That's-... out of Montreal here in Canada. Super random, but- That's amazing... um, yeah.
So that kinda like got me interested in it, and then I, I got into a digital design program in Vancouver, uh, before I graduated my undergrad.
Um, and from there it was like a condensed program where you do like motion graphics, web design, app design, branding, all sorts of things- Yeah...
um, to sort of give you a, a taste of what you might be interested in, and then it all culminates around this big grad project where you choose a discipline and you come up with an idea.
And so I had this idea to create like a Nike FuelBand for dogs. [laughs] And so it was like super fun.
Uh, I, I like went through the full process of like research to like concepting and modeling in 3D and creating like promotional material.
Um, and then that project just ended up getting really well received, and I landed a job, uh, right after at a startup in Vancouver. Um- Nice. Yeah, that was kind of- That was, that was at Unbounce, right?
That was at Unbounce, correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It's funny that you like had all these different things going on and like all these different paths and experim- experiments that kind of coalesced to where you are now because when I was researching you and like looking back both at the newsletter and then, like I said, looking at your Tumblr, your Instagram, there's these really distinct like aesthetic chapters, um, that I think o- you know, overarchingly like all make sense together.
But like, there's these moments, and like I think a hallmark of a good designer is that they're really opinionated, right? Because you need to like make the decisions, like not do everything at once.
You need to like have these limits. Um, so I don't know, like that's not something everybody has, and plenty of good designers don't have that.
Uh, but I really admire people who like are really good at like locking in and having that point of view. Is this like, is this something you like consciously develop- I don't know, like where does that come from?
Yeah, I don't know. Like when I look back at all those things you mentioned, like there's a lot of artistic expression in that aside from just design. Yeah.
And so like a lot of it was just for me of things that I thought were cool and like hopefully other people think they're cool too.And then, yeah, some of that was more design where I'm thinking about a broader audience, not just myself, more objectively.
Um, and so yeah, I think it can-- it's definitely developed. Um, but I remember, like, the first things I was designing at design school, and they were, like, embarrassingly bad. Yeah. Well, they have to be. Um,
yeah, I just... I, I had-- There's this, like, delta between you can have good taste, but you're not, might not have the skill set or expertise- Mm... to sort of realize that level of taste. Yeah.
And so, like, I think back to those days and, like, I was super proud of the stuff that I was making, but if I let it sit for a couple weeks and came back to it, I would be like, "This is awful." Yeah.
Like, "This is nowhere-" It was really moldy when you let it sit. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I would look at, like, other peers in my class of what they were doing- Mm...
and just, like, I'd see, you know, how much more I had to do, um, to really come out with a polished product. And so yeah, I think that's part of it.
And I, like, knowing the tools I do think is super helpful because- Mm... you d- you can get lost in that flow state and you're not, like, stuck trying to figure things out. Like- Yeah...
you can more easily bring your idea into pixels or reality. Mm. Um, yeah. I think. Yeah. I don't know. No, that makes sense.
I, I think that, like, I don't know, the, the, that, like, the delta between taste and execution is, like, one of the hardest things, and can be so discouraging.
Like, I know for me, like, you know, or, like, in my early 20s when I was, like, trying to write, um, I couldn't make myself do it, 'cause I would, I would, I was just stuck on, like, it was that fear of failure and that, like, need for the first draft to be perfect and stuff.
But I don't know, it's such, like, a universal creative, like, I don't know, just, like, self, self-struggle. Um- Yeah, totally. Yeah. So let's get into the newsletter for a little while.
Um, to describe it for anybody listening who hasn't read it before, it's, like, the structure of it as it exists today, it's, it comes every morning on weekdays. Um, it's pretty tight and slick.
Like, I'd kind of describe it as, like, a, a design news espresso. Like, you can just drink it, like, in, like, 30 seconds, um, or you can, you know, kinda linger, uh, and, like, click the links.
And so the, the sections, there's, like, a few linked news items at the top, um, a couple events maybe, maybe online events, whatever, uh, a few links to other articles that might be less newsy, a few more, like, resource-oriented links, um, and then a few GIFs or images, usually GIFs, uh, JIFs for the...
if you're, if you're cultured, um, of design details. Little, like, things from some product launch or, you know, little details you found that you really like. Um, and that's it. There's not really any commentary. It...
Sometimes there is. Like, there used to be a little more, but these days it's usually just a, a, a single sentence as the caption beneath each of the, um, your likes at the end. So does that...
Uh, th- this, like, design news espresso, does that resonate with you? Yeah, that, that sounds great. Um- [laughs] Sounds delicious. I love coffee. Yeah.
Um, but no, yeah, you kinda nailed it, and that's good to hear that that is coming through. Yeah. Um, okay, so the stats on it, you share these publicly on the sponsor page on the website. Um, so I wrote these down.
I wonder if they're still up to date. Uh, you said you had, uh, 4.5 thousand plus subscribers, a 60.1% open rate, and a 19.1% click rate. This is, this is current? Um, yeah. So la- all time is just below 5,000.
Nice. So I'm five away from 5,000. Five away from 5,000. Wow. By the time this comes out, you'll be past it. Yeah. Well, I hope so. [laughs] Um, open rate is 60.2, and click rate is 18.2. Nice. Wow. Yeah.
That's, all time, that's really good for, like, all time. And so the first one was on August 15th, 2023, right? Uh, I believe so, yes. Mm. Um, and why I say that is...
And we can get more into this, but I, I- Imperfect first drafts. Yeah. I published a couple privately just to prove to myself that I could do it- Yes... before signing up publicly to, hey, I'm doing this thing every day.
Which is totally the way to do it. Yeah. So yeah, I approached this very differently than I approa- approached past projects, so, um- Okay. Well, what do you mean by that? So in the past, um, I...
So, like, Leatherwork is one thing, and that was- Mm... pretty successful for what it was. Um, but I've been- Was that, like, just you doing it for you or did you have, like, a, like, a s- a brand you'd started?
What was the deal? I was just selling through Instagram. Yeah. People would DM me and I would s- mail them baseballs or bags or belts or wallets, like, all sorts of things. So- Yeah...
um, but that really taught me I didn't wanna be in a business where it stops when my hands stop, which is really counter to running a daily newsletter because that is kinda what I'm doing.
But, um, yeah, in the past when I had these side projects or businesses, I would go all in on getting the branding right and getting the design right, and I'd hold it so close to my chest, uh, until I could sort of realize that vision that I had in my mind, until I felt proud enough to share it, which, um, you know, can lead to your s- it, you, it leads you to not wanna share it even longer because you've just spent so much time and you're, it's so personal.
Um, and so I had a number of projects just, like, die because either the momentum was lost after I went on vacation for a couple weeks- Mm... and I didn't have any, like, outside accountability keeping me working on it.
Yeah. Um, or I would go to launch it and I didn't have any network or audience to, like, share it with, and I hadn't done any marketing or, or anything like that. So-With Today in Design, I wanted to sort of build in
consistency, and that's why I chose to do it every weekday. Mm. Um, to sort of build that habit. I didn't even have, like, a brand or anything aside from the name, and so I chose, like,
just an inbox icon for the- Yeah... logo for the longest time. Um, again, just to get it out there and see if it even resonated with people before I go and spend all of that, um, time and energy. Yeah.
And it might not even be something that people want. Yeah. Um- That was... You did that for the first four months. I, I looked. It was...
If it, if, like, the first one was around August 15th, uh, the last time you used that logo was, was December 18th. Okay, yeah. Then- Yeah... yeah, so exactly.
Um, and, like, still, you know, I came up with a new logo and stuff, but I'm always in the back of my mind, like, "Is this the right thing?" Like- Mm-hmm... but I don't have a ton of time to work on it. Yeah.
So it's not, like, my priority. It's kind of off the side of my desk, so- You do a lot... it's really balancing- And you're a father. [laughs] Yeah, exactly, you know?
Um, so it's kind of just balancing what the priorities are and- Mm... and unfortunately, a lot of the time, if we're gonna call this newsletter a business, which I personally don't feel it is- Mm...
I think it's more of a hobby right now, um, I'm spending a lot of time working in the business and not on the business. Just- Yeah... nature of life and priorities, so.
Okay, there's a lot of things I wanna get into there, but first I do wanna talk more about, like, the early design iterations and how it's evolved. I, I think there's, like- Yeah...
kind of two, maybe three major, like, chapters of the design of this newsletter and, like, the concept of it. Um- Yeah... when I was looking back at the earliest ones, uh, from a year ago, they're, like...
Again, you had the, you had the inbox logo, uh, as, as the logo. Um, the title or subject line, I think, was just the day's date. Um, you had a brief intro note, uh, most of the time.
Like, it was a little more of your, uh, voice in it, like, in... I mean, it's all your voice, but in terms of, like, actual words, you know? M- more your commentary. Um- Yeah...
you still had, like, basically all the same sections. A little different maybe. Um, it was a little less, like, tightly designed. It was just one column.
It wasn't like these little, like, broken-up columns, which I think that maybe the feature wasn't out yet in Beehiiv. Um,
and then the V2 I kind of mark as coming after you changed the logo, uh, at, at the end of last year, where you start using this collage of all the images from the day's news, and the cover, um, you use the h- uh, one of the headlines from the day's news as the subject line.
Um, and yeah, now you've got the new animated logo that's, like, just kind of the text Today dot In, um, In Design, or Today In dot Design. Excuse me.
Um, and then if there's a V3, I think it's more like, it's really, like, that's the major change is, like, around then.
But then there's one detail that I really liked when I started subscribing to the newsletter, uh, and you got rid of, which is your green light, yellow light. Okay. Slow news day, fast news day.
Um, so for anyone listening who, who's not a subscriber, um, every day when the newsletter would come in, in my inbox, there'd be a green circle emoji or a yellow circle emoji next to it, and green meant it was a, a fast news day.
Yellow meant it was a slow news day. Um, and you got rid of that, I forget, I think it was in March you got rid of it. Um, why... Uh, were you doing that the whole time from the beginning?
And if s- if not, when did you start using it, and why did you stop using it? I think I had started doing it from the very beginning.
Why I stopped doing it is because it was such a nebulous thing for me to decide- Yeah... whether it was a fast news day or... Like, there wasn't, you know, strict criteria that I was following.
It was kind of just, like, a feeling. Um, and I wasn't sure if it was, like, adding any value to things. Uh, it kind of came out of,
you know, I felt this pressure to, like, come up with the exact same number of things every day. Mm. So s- three news articles, two events, et cetera.
Uh, and some days I wouldn't be able to do that, so I thought that could help communicate that there's just not enough stuff that I thought was relevant- Yeah... enough to share.
Communicate your guilt for not fulfilling the promise to your subscribers. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um, so yeah, I, I don't, I, I don't know.
I think I ultimately got rid of it in that, like, most recent iteration 'cause I was just trying to strip- Mm-hmm...
out the unnecessary and really kind of focus it a bit more and group things a bit better and provide some clear distinction between things and, like, style different links differently. Mm-hmm.
So if you're scrolling through, like, there's a bit more, um, yeah, distinction between things and, and you know where you are. But yeah, I got rid of that, and at the same time, I was doing, like, um, Today in History.
Mm. Yeah. So I would try and find something in design history that was happening, and that just felt like I was stretching sometimes, like, just finding things that were, like, design adjacent and, like- Yeah...
shoehorning into the thing. Um- Everything's design. Yeah, exactly, you know? So, um, so that was kind of the decision-making.
A- and then also, also just trying to, like, really optimize how long it takes me to get an issue out. And so if I could shave- Which is kind of, like, the most important thing, right?
Yeah, totally, especially, um, just with where I'm at with it right now. Um,
so yeah, if I could shave off 10 minutes a day of trying to find a relevant history in design, uh, and, you know, write up a little blurb about it, then great. Yeah. I can spend that elsewhere.
So that was kind of, kind of the thinking. And then, uh, the last thing, which you just reminded me of, is the... I share these, like, bento videos on social. Yes. And I...
Those were being received really well, but I felt there was a real disconnect between that visual language and what was in the newsletter, so I really wanted to sort of tie those two things together.Mm.
Which I really like those videos.
They're like, again, to anybody listening to, like visualize it, it's just like a, it's like, yeah, it's like the, you know, a box of an image, you know, usually a horizontally, uh, formatted, landscape formatted, and it's just like, yeah, six or so different things.
Like, the sizes will ch- it's really dynamic and it's, it's fun, it's fun to look at, which I think describes the entire concept of the newsletter. Um, is the reason you stopped adding commentary also just, like, time?
Like, my impression is that the reason the newsletter looks like it does today is because you were like, "Why am I trying to do these things?
Because, like, I think this is what a newsletter is supposed to be, so I'm gonna put in these things," that, like, end up just taking up your time, and you're like, "Why am I doing this?"
So that's why it is this, like, w- kind of lean, this espresso now, where it used to be more of, like, a cortado. Yeah, certainly. Um, I look at it as...
And why I tried to simplify it, too, the same reason, is that I wanted it to be a sort of blank vehicle for the type of stuff that I was sharing. Mm-hmm.
Like, I didn't want it to influence it as much- It's not about you. Yeah, it's not about me.
The whole point is to share what other people in the design community are doing, whether they're writing or podcasting or creating new interactions.
And so that was kind of the main, main motivation behind it, is just to really put the focus on the content and not about me. Like- Mm-hmm...
of course, selfishly for my own personal brand, like, it is published by me and I want it coming from me and everything, and so I still wanted to provide my thoughts as to why I chose certain designs in that inspiration section of, like- Mm-hmm...
what were the elements that popped out to me, and then also act as, like, a journal for me to keep track of, like, what's trending in design and- But you, like, don't need to actually write the commentary for, like, to still accomplish these things you're describing, 'cause it's still, like, just you putting it together.
So, like, you ki- uh, I guess you kind of, like, realized that over time, right? Yeah. Yeah, certainly. Certainly. Yeah. So I think with- Um, and to your point- Go ahead... yes, time, time was- Of the essence...
ultimately the deciding factor of it. Yeah. Yeah. I think with aggregation newsletters, there are, there are so many, right?
Um, I, uh, I mean, Morning Brew has, is, is kind of, you know, the newsletter that launched 1,000- 10,000 newsletters.
Um, and I think a lot of people look at that and they're not, they have original reporting, et cetera, but, like, aggregation is just such an easy way in, and, like, that's kind of how people think of the newsletter format still quite often.
Um, and so I think there's a lot of people who try to aggregate without a point of view or, like, a distinguishing factor other than it's just like, "These are the things I look at, and so I'm gonna give them to you," which can be very interesting and valid when the person has a really good point of view.
Um, but ag- again, this is kind of a long way of saying, like, I like yours because it's really well packaged and, like, feels more intentional even though it is, like, ultimately just, like, a really nice template you built, um, that, like, splits it up in a different way than, like, a, a bulleted list of links.
Um, but my question is, how are you sourcing the content? Like, what is your consumption habit that filters down into this newsletter, and what makes it in versus w- what do you leave out?
I, the process has changed since I started it. Mm. Again, I'm always trying to, like, win back time so I can get them out quicker, uh, but still maintain some level of quality.
So now what I've done is set up a feed, uh, with a bunch of, like, RSS, uh, feeds- Mm. Smart... that I can sort of curate, and I've set them up. I use Feedly. Mm-hmm.
Um, and so through there, you know, you can set up podcasts, you can set up event pages, you can set up, uh, all the different article or blogs or, or most news sites as well. And so that has saved a lot of time of me,
whereas in the past, like, I had a, um, a browser folder, a bookmark folder- Yeah... with, like, all of my news sources that I would command + click through every day and, like, quickly scan- All the tabs...
which was, like, mental looking back on it. But Feedly's, like, saved me a ton of time. And then, uh, TweetDeck Pro or X Pro, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. Um, I have different lists set up and- X Pro.
I remember that one... yeah, um, lists set up with filters. Um, and then just, like, the way I've set up my Twitter is, like, I come across things throughout the day and, and save them. So- Mm-hmm...
uh, I basically just through spending time online will like things throughout the day, and then when I wake up the next morning and it's time to get a new issue out, I'll go through all my likes and revisit and see what, what I like.
But the sort of selection process is, like, 100% my taste. Like- Yeah...
I try to be objective in what I think is kind of trending with things or what I think would be helpful from what I see, uh- What does, what does ob- objectivity mean in the context of this, though? Yeah, I know.
It's, it's difficult. Um, but maybe it's not necessarily something that I would be super interested in because I already know what this article is about, the subject matter, or, uh,
something I wish I would've known- Yeah... five years ago and it might be helpful to a younger designer who's a subscriber to the... But just tr- trying to keep that sort of lens on. Yeah. Uh- Okay. Wait, quick question.
Um, what is your favorite design news outlet, whether current or no longer operating, whether it's online, whether it's a print product. What is, what's like, what's the pinnacle for you of, like, design news? Um,
yeah, I don't think there was one, and that's- Mm... kinda why I decided to do this. Like, uh, Designer News was this community that was, like, pretty popular in 2012-ish time when I- Mm-hmm...
started in design.Uh, and that with Dribbble, uh, which was the online, like, design community, um, were very different than what they are today. And so I- Mm-hmm... kinda wanted to emulate that feeling of, like,
um, community or, like, discovering new articles that, you know, me and my team used to share every morning when we- Mm... would be getting ready for work.
Um, and then, like, the Dribbble aspect of having your design featured on the front page. Like, having anyone recognize your work or share it publicly without you asking them, like, is such a good feeling.
Best feeling, yeah. And so I really wanted to sort of emulate that to, to build community and, like, you know, so much... You see so much criticism, and, like, design Twitter can be kinda harsh at times.
But, you know, it's all love, and like- [laughs]... the more of that we have, the better it is for everyone, and so that's kinda what I've been trying to do.
Um, if I had to say, like, the best place, like, single source to get stuff, it would be Twitter, but there's just so much noise on there- Yeah... um, that it's hard to wade through.
And so, like, if I can save people, you know, if they're not online or they're not on Threads or anything for a week, like, I can still keep them up to date- Mm-hmm... with, like- The f- the service, yeah...
what I, yeah- Yeah... what I think is the most important, most relevant things that people are talking about. Do you notice if there's any particular type of thing, uh, that gets the most clicks in the newsletter?
Like, whether it's, I mean, whether it's, like, this certain section tends to get the most clicks, or if it's, like, anecdotally, like, a type of story or, like, a subject area that's, like, not necessarily bound by the sections of the newsletter.
Yeah, I'd say resources and events- Mm... for the most part. Yeah, I'd say those are the two bigger ones, and then news, I think, just because of where it's placed. Yeah.
I guess I am curious how much time you're spending every morning, and, like, what the process is for producing each newsletter. Yeah, so getting a newsletter out is under an hour now.
And so what I was doing early days is I used to be a, a night owl, and I'd stay up late. Do it at night. Sometimes till 2:00 in the morn- I w- oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Till 2:00 in the morning, like, and I loved it, you know?
Everyone's sleeping, it's quiet time. Um, I can get stuff done. But I have a family now, and- Yeah [laughs]...
I can't stay up till 2:00 in the morning, 'cause if my son gets up at 3:00, then I'm screwed for the day, so, uh...
And then also, like, there's times where things might come up through the day, and I might not be able to have that time at night.
And so in order to build consistency, I kinda needed to switch my schedule, and so what I started doing is just getting up super early and, like- Mm-hmm... getting sort of core taken care of and- [laughs]...
get the newsletter out, have my coffee. Like, it's quiet, everyone else is sleeping. I can, like, putter around the house, unload the dishwasher, and then I'm ready for everyone. Mm-hmm.
And so yeah, that's kind of been the biggest impact on my, like, life personally, is just, like, re- reorganizing how I produce personal stuff. 'Cause I have- Yeah... other obligations right now.
That's interesting that the newsletter has, like, became a forcing function in that. Which I think, too, like, the fact that you have done it for about a year now, have you missed... I mean, you don't do it on weekends.
Maybe you don't do it on holidays. I'm not sure. Have you missed any days? Yeah, 100%. Um, and that's, that's kind of just the way it is, you know? Like- Mm-hmm...
there's days where, you know, we don't have childcare or something- Yeah... or my son's sick, or I'm just tired, and I- Yeah... don't have the energy in it. If I have a sponsorship set up, like, I'm getting it out 100%.
Yeah. That, that's my commitment. Um, but if I don't, then yeah, I don't really worry too much about it. I don't want it to be- That's good... a source of stress. Like- Yeah. Does it- Like, I don't have a boss.
It's like- Yeah. Well, do you... I've, I've, I've wondered, like, if you were trying to make it, like, every single... like, "I can't miss a day," have you ever had anybody help you with it, or, like, a guest editor?
No, I haven't. And I've thought a lot about this, and I definitely think it's possible. Um, and I've thought about how I could sort of bring on some help.
I think I need to put some more focus in, in sponsorships and revenue in order- Yeah... to justify that. Um, but ultimately, like, it would be a shift in taste. Mm-hmm. You know? Like- That's the problem, yeah...
some people's lives might be different than others. Um, so yeah, I've certainly thought about it, and I think if I ever wanna scale the thing, then I need to, like, figure out how to do that. Um- Let's wait.
Let's, let's talk about scale, and I'm, or let's talk about monetization first, 'cause earlier you said, like, you know, you're like, "I don't know if we call this a business. It's a hobby."
Um, so in, in terms of monetization, I know that there's sponsorships, and then you have a premium option.
Um, I, I would hazard a guess that, like, it's brought you some, like, freelance inquiries too, in kind of a, you know, more abstract monetization way.
Um, but with sponsorships, um, uh, that you've probably, you, you were probably doing it before this, but one of the earlier ones I found was, uh, in, in March.
Um, and this was, it was sponsored by Open Doors, a design jobs-focused newsletter for junior designers. Um, how... Tell me about the sponsorship program for the newsletter. Um, yeah.
So for the first six months of running the newsletter, like, I was just covering costs, paying for it, just seeing- Mm-hmm... you know, not worrying too much about it.
Again, it was kind of providing, to your point, indirect, um, value- Yeah, personal brand... whether it's personal brand, relationship building, inbound freelance opportunities, whatever. Um, but
yeah, I wanted to start monetizing it so I could cover costs and also think about, you know, running ads and- Mm... and growing it a bit more. Um-So yeah, I didn't really know where to start.
I messaged a few other newsletter creators in the space, and they were super helpful, like just giving me insight of what they charged.
Um, I, you know, looked at what other people were charging with similar audience sizes, um, and- How big was your audience at the time, approximately? I think I waited till it was about, like 2,000. Oh, that makes sense.
Yeah. So I started in February- Okay... um, doing, doing ads. Yeah, I wanted to keep my prices low so that they were accessible.
Is what percentage of the sends of the newsletter issues are sponsored these days, would you, would you guess? So to date, I've done 62. Um, and again, I started in February.
Uh, those have trailed off a little bit 'cause I've increased my prices, so I need to- Mm... sort of rethink about how I wanna approach it. It's interesting doing a daily newsletter because,
you know, I think most newsletters my size are charging, like, hundreds of dollars for a single, um, placement- Yeah... in their weekly newsletter. Um, but sending it every day, I, I
imagine that my audience develops some sort of ad blindness where they- Mm. Definitely... kind of know where the ad is. They're just gonna- I sure would... scroll past it.
So, yeah, so as much as I might have a audience size like that, and I might have a good open rate and good click rate, that is something that I'm sensitive to.
So, um, yeah, pricing is definitely something I need to revisit. Um, but to date- Are you, are you structuring it on like a, just a flat rate, like per issue?
Yeah, so I set up, like, a booking flow through cal.com- Yeah...
where people can just, like, click through, see which ones are available, uh, and then it allows me to just capture all the information that I need for the sponsor.
Again, just trying to optimize time as much as possible. Yeah. Um, and so that's been the main thing, and then whenever I've done outbound sales to brands that I like or think would be a fit, um,
the reception has been pretty great. And so I just... My, like, biggest wish I would've from the last six months is, you know, spend some more time reaching out to brands and- Yeah... and starting these conversations.
I've got a ton of prospects, and I've started the conversations with a ton of people. It's just I haven't had the time to follow through and get them booked, and so- It's a relationships business... that's my... Sorry?
It's a relationships business. Yeah, certainly. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that's kind of why, again, I, I, I'm not really thinking of it as a business the way- Yeah... I, I m- maybe should be. But again,
in terms of, like, priority and w- how much I can dedicate time to, like, it's- Yeah... it's- Uh, yeah... you know- It's still in the, like, what matters is that you're having fun phase. Yeah. Um- Exactly...
so the other thing, you do have a premium offering. Uh, it's more framed as a, like, Buy Me a Coffee, though.
Like, quite literally that's how you frame it, though it is, I think, a premium subscription once you, like, click through. Um, and I understand that there are 21 supporters. Uh, some of them, you know, gave their name.
They're, they're carved on the wall of, of your website. Uh, some of them are an- are anonymous. Um, and judging by the number and the price, you're bringing in somewhere between, like, $630, $700.
Uh, so that's like, it is very much Buy Me a Coffee, probably about covering your software costs, um, maybe, maybe a little less, I don't know.
Uh, and then the main benefit is that they can look at the whole archive, and there's no ads, um, in the version they get, and that there's this quarterly supporter-only post, which I'm very curious about that.
Uh, but then also, yeah, curious too about, like, when you started the premium thing and why you thought that was the right time to start it. Yeah, I wanted to frame it very much like,
um, you are just helping me cover costs. Like, I can't- Yeah. Like, hey, if you like this- Again, coming back to time. Yeah. Yeah.
I couldn't commit to, like, providing you some much better option, and like, I'm, like, embarrassed that you mentioned the quarterly, uh, or, uh, yeah, subscriber. 'Cause you haven't written one yet [laughs].
'Cause I haven't written one yet. Um, and so I now have, I think, 35 premium subscribers. Oh, nice.
Um, but for the most part, these are people that I, like, have been emailing with and, like, have established relationships with or were like- Yeah...
early supporters or, or, you know, I got the chance to meet at Config, uh, last month. So, um, yeah, I need to revisit that. But that's awesome. That's like, that's beautiful.
It's this community that people are paying to support. Like, it's, like, the same as, like, going to your, I don't know, local... Ha- having, like, a local soccer league, and you're, like, all chipping in for the thing.
I don't know. Not, that's, like, a bad metaphor. Yeah. But you know what I mean. It's just, like, you, you contribute to your community literally. Yeah. I, I tried to be as transparent as possible about it.
Like, the reality is this does cost me money, and I do j- need to justify why I'm waking up at 5:00 AM- [laughs]... to my wife every morning.
So, like, if you can help out a little bit, and that's also, like, why I kinda started doing sponsorships too is- Mm-hmm... to help justify things, like, um, and, and make it a, a little bit easier to...
You know, I'm not paying out of pocket for anything anymore. Like- Yeah... I've covered cost plus some, I think. So yeah, to date, um, I think through sponsors, premium subscribers, and, like, Beehiiv has boosts. Yeah.
I think I've just crossed over $7,000, so, um, which I'm happy with given the amount of time and effort that I've put into it, and it's covered- Yeah...
cost, um, and allowed me to start thinking about how I could use that money to grow or, you know- Yeah... potentially bring on someone to help, um, or pay for new tools. You're, like, getting to that stage. Yeah. Yeah.
Pay for... Yeah, exactly. So- So wait, I, one thing I wanna, I wanna riff on for a second here is the, y- your embarrassment.
The, the quarterly, the quarterly supporter-only post, um, not riffing on your embarrassment, but I wanna, I w- I'm really curious what that could be because in my mind when I hear that, it's like this sounds like it's, like-Not like an aggregated post that's like something like may- an essay you're writing, or like it's something very different than what you're doing.
So I'm, I- if you're comfortable with sharing, I'm really, really curious about like what kind of the vision is and the directions it could go. Totally. The immediate thought that I had was, I love to write. Yeah. Um,
I don't have a ton of time to do it anymore, and so I was thinking I could do a bit more editorial style, um, and choose a few of the topics from the last month or last quarter- Yeah... and really like focus in on them.
Um, or also identify trends. Like, one of my biggest marketing channels has been Twitter, and like- Mm-hmm... I find that times when I post about trends, whether it's like trends on websites or- Trends in AI wearables...
trends, right. Yeah. Some- exactly. Um, those seem to resonate a lot. And so I think if I was to focus and still build on the, um,
build on the brand of the newsletter and keep it within the same context, I think that would be like the number one thing I'd do. Really compelling evolution for you personally. Yeah. Yeah, certainly.
So, um- You did, wait, you did say quick there that, uh, Twitter has been an important marketing thing for, marketing, uh, channel for you, and you've got 500, 5,000. Um, where, where have they come from?
I know like Twitter is your most active social media, so I, that was kinda my first guess is they probably mostly came from Twitter. But yeah, how, where, where, where are these 5,000 people coming from?
Uh, yeah, Twitter's been a big one. Um, I get a lot of organic people coming in. Um, it's difficult 'cause I set up a new landing page, um, 'cause I didn't like the design of the Beehiiv one. Yeah.
And they- Yours is really nice... yeah. Uh, so I set that up using their API, and what I'm unable to get is like refer traffic unless I'm using UTM parameters everywhere. Mm. And- Which is such a hassle...
yeah, it's such a hassle. So I've kind of lost some of that insight, and I, I know there's ways that I could get a bit more of that insight. Again, I just haven't had the time to.
But, but that mean, what you're saying though is it, it like is entirely organic, it, whether or not that's from your Twitter or like from people- Yeah... sharing it with their friends or in Slack.
Yeah, so 5,000 people is 100% organic. Wow. Um, and the biggest driver has me- been sharing those bento videos, j- that are just like quick summary snapshots of like what you can expect in that feature.
Um, and yeah, and so I, I built in... There's an element of like, uh, social network effects in it, in that- Sure...
I post this video of content, quick preview, and then the next comment is I tag like everyone that's on Twitter in that o- in that- Mm... uh, quote. Like the brands or the, or the individuals who made the stuff. Yeah.
So I can either lead people to their profiles to help them discover new people or give them content to re-share on their own of like, "Hey, I got featured in this thing." Like- Mm-hmm... "Check it out," or whatever.
And so that's been huge. Um, that has been trickling down a little bit, so, um, I think the next thing I wanna experiment from a growth standpoint is giveaways. Hm. I read your newsletter, um-
Maybe the Cheapskate London one. Cheapskate London. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and I- I think you read it a lot... messaged them on the, on the Beehiiv Slack group, and, uh, they were lovely.
Um, and so I think I, I wanna do something like that. I've already lined up some giveaways with some brands.
I just need to sit down and like put together what that campaign looks like and the structure and how it fits into the newsletter as like a mainstay- Yeah...
of like every week I'm gonna give away, um, a subscription, pro subscription to a piece of software- Mm, that's smart... or something, uh, to people who have shared with at least one person that signed up. Yeah.
Basically the same model that they do. It's such a good model. 'Cause I think that's great. Yeah, I think it's- Yeah, it's so great...
I haven't found like a better, I mean, other people do giveaways too, but like theirs is so sustainable, where it's like, you know, a box of donuts or like a ticket to a concert.
And it makes sense because it's, you know, all in London, but, um- Totally. And from a, a brand partner perspective, it's just more advertising for them. Yeah. Like- Exactly.
If you can get them to give it to you, it's really smart. Yeah. Yeah. It's- Yeah... everybody wins.
Um, what would you say, having been doing this for a year and having evolved the concept, like from a design perspective, what would you say are some of like the core tenets or core principles of newsletter design, um, as advice for other people?
'Cause I, th- that's, I think that's something a lot of people struggle with because there's, it's like either you copy a Morning Brew format or you like try to figure out your own thing, and
I just know a lot of people struggle with it. Yeah. What are some of the core principles of newsletter design? I think I'm still trying to figure this out because email is so restrictive in like what you can do with it.
Mm-hmm. And some would argue that the decisions I've made are terrible for newsletter design. All the GIFs. In that, you, yeah, GIFs, um, it's like dark instead of white. Mm-hmm.
Like, some, um, email clients, like, don't love that. I think the biggest thing, and I had a nugget of an idea out of the last year, is like newsletter design agency service.
Like, if you can provide branding and templates and all of that stuff. And so to answer your question, I do think it is approaching it as much as you can.
If you're able or have the, a partner or the means to hire someone, like, create a brand and a visually distinct experience for your readers- Mm... because in the inbox, every email looks the exact same. It's just text.
And so in my, like, sort of research of looking at things that had done well, like Milk Road being a, a crypto email, like that's a very opinionated design- Yes... that works very well for them as a brand.
I think what you did with Creator Spotlight, I've given you this feedback in the past, like I think it's beautifully designed.
Like, it, it looks great, the sort of, um, consistency of that red circle emoji to like- Yeah... as soon as you open it up, you know exactly where you are, and you know what you're getting.
And so I think if you can think about it that way, that would be what I would suggest. Um, [clears throat] and then visuals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Visuals are, are- You need that.
I always think of that in terms of like visual texture, like whether it's the visuals or like the way you're making sections, it's like the, the way you make an email not look like every other email is giving the, the reader something to like, just like f- for their eye to latch onto and like stop them from just scrolling if it's like, you know, it's not a newspaper article where it's just text.
Like, you need, you need something to latch onto. Um- Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I think we'll end it there. Uh, where should people go to find your work? Um, yeah, go to todayin.design to check out the newsletter.
Um, or I'm just very active on Twitter, so definitely say hi. Um, I love meeting new people and, yeah, having chats like this. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks a lot, Francis. Yeah. This was fun. No, of course.
Thank you for coming on. Um, yeah, this has been the Creator Spotlight podcast. I have been your host, Francis Zier, and I've been speaking with Cole Desrochers. I'll see you next week.
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