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Sometimes I'll write content that people do not agree with, like at all, 'cause I just figured like, "Oh, 'cause I'm the boss, everyone's gonna listen to me." That's just like not [laughs] how that works.

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Dude, you're so wrong here. I would even get like a couple dozen comments, like, "Dude, your content is terrible." It's terrible, but there's nothing else out there.

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Fast forward a year later, The Bottleneck has like about twenty-eight thousand subscribers. Those are very good numbers. You're growing pretty slow, and then you kind of rock it up.

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Let's talk like the business side of things for a second, the revenue. I'm getting about 30K in MR. Our monthly revenue's gonna be in the couple hundreds of thousands is like where we could go. That's ambitious.

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Do you identify with that term creator? No. Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast.

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Our guest today is Rameel Sheik, creator of The Bottleneck, a newsletter for chief operating officers and managers covering biz ops, HR, finance, everything about managing and scaling a business.

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Rameel, your LinkedIn bio, which is kind of like a pitch for The Bottleneck, says, "You want to be better at your job. I want to meet great operators." And I found that really interesting.

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It's this very like open-armed statement to potential subscribers. Like, you're saying like, "I'm... I'd..." Like, not just I want you to sign up. Like, "I'm interested in you."

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Uh, what is your relationship with your audience? Great question. So first of all, uh, just happy to be here, right? Yes, welcome. Really glad to celebrate that first year.

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Um, and even starting off with the idea of like connecting with every single subscriber that I can, um, I'm sure this is probably cliche and everyone else says this, but in my welcome series, uh, anyone who responds, I immediately respond back.

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Mm. So I have a couple hundred, uh, messages actually to respond back to after this call anyway. Yeah. That is... Well, that is such a thing.

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Like, I-- It's-- I, I chip away at it every day, but I'm always like at least a few days behind. Yeah, so the makeup of your audience too, actually, I, I feel like this is something you track pretty well.

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You've got pretty good data on it. It's, it's t- tum-- it's like ninety percent COOs or something I read. Tell me about who, who these people are. For sure.

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So I write for early stage, uh, chief operating officers, so COOs, um, operation execs. You can think of ops execs like a head of people, head of finance, a VP of strategy, as well as, um,

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senior program managers, uh, biz ops folks. Yeah. Uh, frankly, it's like going after the, um, business area that no one really targets, right? Everyone targets engineers of the world. Back of the house, you were saying.

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Exactly. Yeah. Everyone targets engineers, marketers, sales folks, but no one really goes after, uh, the positions that like I've used to work with in the past. Yeah. Uh, okay, I wanna step way back for a second.

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We'll get back to the newsletter, but I wanna get into like your background and, and how you get here.

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So, uh, l- looking at your LinkedIn, right out of college, you work at Uber Freight for a few years, which I actually didn't even know they had this.

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Um, but that to me kind of was, okay, this is like the first, you know, piece of the puzzle in, in how you get to like writing for COOs, 'cause that's all about logistics and shipping and, you know, that kind of thing.

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Um, to me too, like working, being a COO, working logistics, all this kind of stuff really ladders well into being a creator, where it is like you're an entrepreneur. You have to like manage all these things.

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Um, so you don't have to tell me everything about like what you did at Uber Freight for those three years, but I am curious if there are any like particular lessons and ways of working that you took from that, that you s- that are still important to how you operate.

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Yeah, a hundred percent. So when I joined Uber Freight, um, I actually joined in, um, as a salesperson or as an account manager because I just didn't know what I wanted to do.

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I had interned with like the VC, like, uh, VCs of the world for two summers. Mm. Hated it. Was like, this is not the w- that's not the way I wanna go. Yeah. Wanted to be an operator.

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So when I jumped into sales, very quickly I moved over to program management, where, um, the role was so vague because we were a startup within Uber the startup. Mm. Yeah.

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And that was when Uber was going through its like crisis mode. It was like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen when like- Yeah... there was a switch of CEOs. Um, there was like- Famously... la- Exactly, right?

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There was a lack of investment in like certain areas. Um, the one year professional had to figure out a lot of different issues.

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So a perfect example here is, um, we randomly created a new team, which is like how I got that program manager role. Nice.

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And within my first like month, I recognized a billing issue that was affecting three percent of all like top line revenue. Um, the re- That's a lot...

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the business now is like, I think, like three or four billion dollars. So just like even reflecting on like what a potential top line revenue, if like people just were to ignore, it's like kind of an impact. Yeah.

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At least with ways of working, it just was more of the idea of like you had to be, uh, always taking initiative. You always had to be jumping in, and like we had this cultural value of acting like an owner, right?

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Mm-hmm. Like, you had to act like it's your own business. And I think I've just like taken that mentality everywhere else I've gone, whether in my own businesses or working for others. Yeah.

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Okay, well, so y- after leaving, you kind of-- you've just kind of been on a founder mode tear, let's say.

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Uh, you did work at somewhere for a couple years, but before that, so after leaving Uber, you spent one year each on two businesses, which were kinda like, one was a fuel hosay- fuel wholesaler, and the other was like a, a clothing exporter, and you did one, each one for just about a year.

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Uh, I'm curious what you learned from starting and then having to stop these two businesses- For sure... in terms of like running a business and operating. For sure.

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So, so, uh, started the biz- the very first business, um, it was pure chaos because I quit my job in February 2020. Mm. Um, everyone knows COVID- Oh, shit... started in March 2020. Um- Mm...

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it turns out, like lucky break for me but like unlucky for a lot of my competitors, where like I was one of the like few businesses in town still operating. Mm.

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Um, so we were able to grow that pretty quickly and like exit within the first year, um, just because we were reaching that scale, um, where we were signing like these like annual or decade-line contracts.

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I not only had to learn like very quickly, like anything when it comes to legal compliance, I had to figure out like, okay, how do I hire a sales team, especially in a world going from like physical to virtual- Mm...

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especially in like a bootstrap, old school like business.

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Yeah.Um, as well as being able to manage a lot of different egos, um, I think was actually like one of the bigger, like, things I had to learn as a founder because I just figured like, oh, 'cause I'm the boss, everyone's gonna listen to me.

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[laughs] That's just like not how that worked. Yeah. Uh, it was more like, "Dude, I have like 20 years of seniority over you. Like, you listen to me," even though- Like shut up... I'm cutting the check. Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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So like learning to manage up and down while also, like, understanding the nitty-gritty of, like, these old school businesses, um, whether it was, like, this wholesaler fuel logistics business, like, I was able to exit.

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Um, or the second one, which was, like, this secondhand apparel. Again, old school business. Yeah. Was like, okay, I can bootstrap this. Let's do this on a- Oh, you exited the first one, though?

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Yeah, I exited both of them. Oh, awesome. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

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So going from there, after those startups, you go to this c- you, you move to New York and you join this company, Firstbase, which is relevant to the newsletter because that's where you then, like...

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I mean, I mean, I guess at the startups you were, like, de facto COO, but, um, here you actually hold that title for the first time. So we don't need to get into, like, everything you did there.

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But, like, you leave Firstbase to move back to Texas, um, because you and your wife are gonna have a baby, and you wanna be closer to family.

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Why do you decide to do a newsletter instead of finding some remote job or looking for a job in, in Houston? So it's kind of funny.

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Um, when I found out that my wife was pregnant, um, I had a very interesting conversation with my CEO, where basically I decided to move back home to Houston. Mm-hmm.

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Um, I, I myself had helped develop an in-office environment, um, where we had convinced people from around, like, not even America, the world, to move to New York. Oh, damn.

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Um, I have about 100 family members in a 15-minute driving radius from Houston. Yeah. So I wanted, um, to raise my daughter in that environment.

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So I pretty abruptly quit with, like, no job prospect, like nothing, having just moved back in October of 2023. Mm-hmm. Um, I sent out a tweet, and I had like 200, 300 followers.

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I don't even know why I did this, just, like, reflecting back on this. Um, but I sent out a tweet basically detailing, like, "Hey, I've quit my job. I have, like, a baby on the way." Yeah.

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Like, I gave up this, like, much equity. And it went viral, at least for me. Mm-hmm. So going from, like, a couple hundred followers, I think I had about 110, 120,000 people see it. Wow.

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Um, so a lot of- Did people actually, like, follow you then too? Yeah, so people started following. Mm-hmm. People started DM-ing me because I guess they saw my experience on LinkedIn or, like- Yeah...

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I guess what I had talked about. Um, so a lot of, like, job offers, like, came in, right? [laughs] Or, like, a lot of, like, consulting offers came in. Yeah.

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Um, but there were two things that, like, were holding me back. One was the idea that, uh... I come from, like, a family of entrepreneurs. Yeah. So my dad has always owned, like, gas stations and businesses.

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Like, all my uncles and aunts, like, of the 100 family member- Yeah... um, people, like, no one has a job. Yeah. Like, everyone has their own business. I was the only guy who got, like, a job.

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They're like, "What are you doing, dude?" Uh, yeah. L- [laughs] Truly. Like, I remember I was like... When I first got my Uber job- Yeah...

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I was getting so much pressure from everyone saying, like, "You're wasting your time." Uh-huh. Like, "Please, like, quit your job." It's basically a very abnormal experience, I think, compared to, like, most people.

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Yeah. [laughs] Um, so [laughs] there was that, of course, in the back of my head. Like, I knew I wanted to get back into, like, running a business again. Yeah.

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But then the second part is, like, I'm gonna look for another opportunity, right? And whatever great opportunity comes in, that's when I would jump aboard. So let me write for now. Mm-hmm.

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And just basically, like, I just started writing, um, about, like, either my own experiences or what I thought I wish would've existed when I was a CEO or, like- Mm-hmm... early in my operational career.

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And fast forward a year later, The Bottleneck has, like, about 28,000 subscribers, and, uh, we're just still growing and chugging along. Which is, which is amazing.

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So I found your stats on Passionfruit, so it sounds like this is up to date. Uh, 28,000 subscribers with a 56.1% open rate, 3% click rate. Uh, those are very good numbers. I appreciate it. Yeah, man.

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Uh, I'm happy to hear... It's not even for me, like, the subscriber count that's super interesting. It's always the engagement. Yeah. Right? Like, I'm happy to hear- That open rate is... Yeah. I appreciate it.

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And dude, it, uh, it, uh... I need to actually update that. It's at 60% now. Oh, wow. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So, like, it...

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to me, like, what I always optimize for is more of the idea of, um, even if it's open rates or click-through rates, but, like, thoughtful responses that come in, right? Yeah.

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So if people are, like, interacting with me in some way through the newsletter or through socials or, um, however they may find me- So wait... I think that's more important.

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So you were saying, you were saying, like, there's good replies... Sorry to interrupt there. You're saying there's good replies- Yeah...

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to the welcome email, but now you're saying, too, like, people are often replying to any given issue you're sending out as well. For sure. For sure, right? Okay.

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Because, like, how I always like to think of the email, and we can talk about the structure of the content if you want to get into it, but- We'll get into that later... uh, okay, cool.

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So just super high level, like, sometimes I'll write content that people do not agree with, like, at all, right?

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They're like, "Hey, you should never do this with an employee," or, "You shouldn't do this," or, like, whatever it may be, and, like, that's a conversation that I do wanna have. Yeah.

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'Cause either I'm learning something new or I'm going to educate someone. Yeah. Um, but the other piece here is sometimes people just think, like, it's funny, like, whatever I've written. Mm-hmm.

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Um, 'cause I do try to add in a little bit of humor once in a while. Um, so, like, there's just, like, th- there's just, like, either funny, thoughtful responses or just, like, inbound comments. Uh- Yeah.

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What, what's been the most, like, controversial, like, people have disagreed with the most or, like, I don't know, one or two posts that people have just been like, "Dude, you're so wrong here"?

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Oh, that's a great question. Okay. So something that, like... I was shocked how many people, like, came in inbound and, like, I don't know how in the weeds we wanna get, but based around the- Oh, sure...

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idea of, like, a PIP, which is, like, a performance improvement plan. Mm-hmm. So what that just simply means usually is, hey, you have an employee. Like, they're not performing well.

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You wanna, like, give them a heads-up they're not performing well, and then over a certain amount of time, um, you either have them stay because they met their metrics or you let them go.

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Yeah.For most managers, there's like a game that they play with PIPs. Mm-hmm. Which is that they want... They will put, like, an underachieving employee or an employee they don't like- Yeah...

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on a PIP plan, and then because under the guise of like, "Oh yeah, I put you under a PIP and you know you're underperforming," now it's like an easier conversation to have 30 days later. Yeah. Right?

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Like, "Hey, let's go." That's like, I think of it as like a cynical like, all right, like, this is kind of your soft severance package. Yeah. But that might not include a severance package at the end. 100%.

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And like, I, I think this might be okay with like corporate land when you have like 5,000 employees, but like for the folks who are reading my, like, newsletter- Yeah...

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who are more earlier stage, they can't afford, like, one, to like think through a PIP plan- You have to make a decision now... to then put someone in 30 days. Exactly. Yeah.

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You just gotta, you gotta run and you gotta go. So of course, I do have like later stage companies reading the newsletter, and they came in hot. They're like, "Dude, you do not treat people like that.

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You can't say, like, there's no need for a PIP plan." Versus my comment more was like, you need to continuous, continuously provide feedback to people where they should always- Yeah...

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know where they are, um, in their performance. By the time you do a PIP, it's too late. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So like I remember I got a couple like hundred responses based off- Wow... of that good and bad.

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I was like, "Okay, like this is something I need to think through a little bit more." Yeah. That's amazing. Um, okay. We should, I guess, talk about the structure of the newsletter a little bit.

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So I would use the word efficient for how you do it. It's very like most of what you... Some of what you write is more long form, some of it's really short. Um, so I'll give like a little summary.

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You can correct me if any of this is wrong.

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So you sent the first issue, according to the archive I have here, uh, on September 5th, 2023, and you started sending out just once a week, and the concept was the Ops Playbook.

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And so it's these really short, like 500-word pieces, um, about concepts like how to plan your OKRs, how to avoid a bad hire, crisis communication, stuff like that, with links out to deeper context.

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Um, and then a few months later, you introduced the second series, which is a, you know, self-explanatory case study series where you look at different companies and take a look at kind of their ops.

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Um, you start upping the pace of publishing. You're, you know, multiple times a week. By now we're, I don't know, like 390 days later or so, um, and you've published 260 editions, which is a lot.

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And then there's one more, uh, you have. You start doing interviews as well. So I think those are like kind of the three series, and you post a lot. So tell me,

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uh, expand on like, yeah, the structure of the, of the newsletter and like these different content series. For sure. Yeah. I, I think that was a great, like, general overview.

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So going to it a little bit more, with the Thursday editions, which are like the Ops Playbooks that you have. Mm-hmm. At least current state what it is, is we give... We have like a general topic, right?

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So it could be around like management, HR, finance, strategy, and then we get into like three different tips, around like 300 to 500 words each. Mm-hmm.

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Um, either that's based off my own experiences, but of course, um, you know, like there's, there's only so much experience that I have. Yeah.

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So I also, working with a team, um, research like from different links or from different sources. Mm.

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Um, one thing I think I do a little bit different that most people don't do for some reason is like I always back link to wherever I found the resource, like immediately. Yeah.

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So like I'll have the title and then like insight from B- Billy, right? Whoever that may be. That's good. Builds trust. Exactly, right?

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Because I don't wanna portray myself as a person who's experienced like these thousands of things- Yeah...

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and then someone come inbound, versus, um, me saying like, "Hey, I'm not only back linked to this individual who I think is an expert in this topic, but let me at least summarize the content.

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If you ever wanna go read, okay, cool. Click the link and go." Yeah. Right? So that's like the Thursday edition there. Um, always around like 1,200 words or less, right?

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So like can be pretty dense, um, but it can be a quick read, uh- Yeah... just for a lot of our operators who are like too, uh- Strapped for time... too strapped for time. Exactly. Yeah.

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So then for Sundays, like what you mentioned, was like the case studies. I think what we do is we try to focus... And I've experimented with this a lot, just to be quite- Mm... frank with you. Yeah.

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Um, but what we're settling on is this idea of like having a case study where it's around one operational tactic that a company used to scale their business, right? Mm-hmm.

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So, uh, we really hyper-focus on like what one thing someone is doing. Um, an example here is like why would Superhuman onboard every customer manually even though they're charging like, I think 30 bucks a month, right?

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Yeah. Like intuitively you'd think they wouldn't wanna do that. Why is that? We get into the why, but then we also say like, "How do you... How can you do this?" Yeah. Right?

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Because I don't think it's really valuable to hear a narrative unless you also know how to apply it to your business yourself. I don't want to assume- You chew on that a little bit for the reader. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

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But if I can just tell you like, "Hey, this is how I think you could do it," like obviously I try to keep it as general as possible, but like let's get into like a little bit of a playbook, I think you'll provide value.

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And again, if you disagree, like feel free to like edit however you think makes sense or just respond back to the email. Yeah. And I'll try to work with you.

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Wait, so I'm curious more what, about the, the experimentation you've done to like get that to that version.

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It sounds like maybe you've tried like more broadly looking at an entire company, maybe not, um, doing kind of the like takeaway. Yeah. What, what, what have you learned from experimenting on this? For sure. So, uh...

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And I'm continually experimenting, so at first- Always. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] So at first it was, um... It was funny. So like at first I did, which was like the case study, one ops tactic, sticking super closely to it.

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Um, the idea of like, "Hey, here's an intro context, like how to do the thing. Cool. Bye." Um, then I tried doing a little bit more longer form, like thought piece-y stuff. People hated it. They were just like- Yeah...

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"Dude, like this is not why I'm here. Like I'm here for like actionable insights on like how to do X, Y, or Z." And I was like, "Okay, I hear you loud and clear.

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Like not gonna do that unless like something I think is just super interesting."

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And even if it's like a philosophical thought piece, "This is the future of AI," like type vibe, I always try to add in like, "Hey, these are at least key takeaways or something that you can do to apply to your business."

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Yeah. I think like that core component of like what you can do for your own business is the huge value add or the unlock for like my readers. Yeah. No, that makes sense.

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Um, and then r- more recently you started doing the interviews.Mm-hmm. Yes... and, and, and guest posts even, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh, so I think th- these are two different things- Yeah...

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but, like, both inspired by Lenny, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So, like, I think Lenny does a... has done a fantastic job, like, creating content for product managers.

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Arguably, like, kind of the best, like, business niche newsletter out there. 100%. Like, he's the OG. Yeah.

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Like, I think every newsletter writer or content creator in the business world, like, looks up to him or draws inspiration from some way. Yeah. Um, have you... So of these series,

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d- is there one that you like working on most and then one that is, like, a clear... Like, it sounds like your readers like the ops playbooks the most because they're just such, like, quick bites. But, um, it's...

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I'm, I'm kind of... I, I'm getting the impression that the case studies are maybe more your favorite to work on. Yeah. So, so great question. So it's, it's interesting.

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Like, if you were to look at the numbers, like, when it comes to open rates, um, engagements, like, thoughtful responses, um, the case studies are what the audience responds to. But whenever I've talked to...

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'Cause I survey my readers all the time. Yeah. I, like, again, like, I'm, like, jumping on calls with folks all the time. Um, people always mention the ops playbook.

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So it, it is interesting, my brain, where it's like I can see the actions that people are taking. For me, at least, it seems like case studies. Yeah.

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But then when I ask people like, "Hey, like what about the bottleneck do you like?" They're like, "Oh yeah, quick tips. Give me the quick tips. Give me the quick tips." So, like, I want...

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And then for me, personally speaking, like, I enjoy the case studies. Yeah. Like, I think that's just, like, where my brain works- It's, it's buttoned down... where like, let me break it down. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

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So, like, I, I don't know... I don't, I don't know what's going on, like, just to be very transparent. [laughs] Like, I'm trying to figure it out myself. Yeah. Like, I don't wanna like, uh, just make up an answer here.

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Mm-hmm. Um, but it seems like people en- people seem to interact with the case studies more, but the ops tips are just more memorable. Yeah. Uh, let's talk, like, the business side of things for a second, the revenue.

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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, so you don't have to get into like exact dollar amounts, but, you know, at least ballparks to, to give listeners an idea of what's going on here. So as far as I know, you, you sell ads.

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I don't believe you currently have a paid version, but you might have in the past. Um, are... Is this a business that is sustaining you at this point, a year in? Yeah. So we can break up the business into three parts.

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Mm-hmm. And I can get into, like, rough numbers. Yeah. So, like- Yeah, please... I guess, like, the highlight is, like, I'm getting about, at least as of the past two months, about 30K in MR. Yeah. So...

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Or monthly revenue. Yeah. Uh, and how is that broken down? Very good. Yeah, it's, like, solid. Yeah, it's been good. It's good, it's good. For a newsletter- I don't know... with 28,000 subscribers, yeah. Anyways. Yeah.

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Yeah, man. A- a- we'll get, we'll get into the monetization. Yeah. Like, I don't mind jumping into it. So, uh, with the newsletter, of course, is with, like, the ads that we run. Mm-hmm. Um, we also...

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What I do is I have, like, a consulting, like, type situation or coach. Mm. It can be coaching or consulting depending on the level- Yeah... of involvement that people want. Um, so I have a few clients there.

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Um, but then I also run a membership, uh, called Cornerstone. Yes. Right? So that is if, uh, familiar with, like, YPO, with Hampton, those are for founders, CEOs. Hampton Chief. Yeah. Exactly, Chief.

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So, like, I run something- Exclusive, vetted community, high ticket entry fee. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So I run something very similar, uh, for COOs or, like, um, ops execs. Yeah. Right?

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So, like, just the combination of, like, all those three businesses are, like, what drive that, like, 30K MRR. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Um, I know... I think Cornerstone, you formally launched it this summer. How long...

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So I don't know if you've replaced, like, maybe, let's say, your salary at Firstbase, let's say. Uh, but if you have, how long did it get you, take you to get there? So I replaced my base sal- Yeah, your base...

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Oh, that's a good question. That's a good question. Let me, like, think about this. It sounds so weird to say it out loud, but, like, yeah, I guess it took till July.

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So, like, I started, like, in October, so, like, seven, eight months, nine months, whatever the time is. That's... I mean, that's not really bad for, like, bootstrapping a, a newsletter-based business.

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Dude, when you have a baby, uh- [laughs]... you're so prioritized and focused on everything. Like, you have, like, seven hours to spend, six hours to spend. Like, you don't have time to do anything else. Yeah.

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So, like, my brain is like, "Okay, make money. Make money. Make money," or provide great content or like, "Okay, let me grow"- Yeah... or, like, whatever the thing for the...

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whatever the flavor of the day is- The keyword there is provide... you're gonna focus on it. Provide for your family. [laughs] Exactly. Yeah, man.

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Like, I, I like to think I'm, like, relatively family-oriented while also ambitious. Mm-hmm. So, like, just combining both things has been an interesting experience.

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Doing the newsletter, kind of, like, I mean, working from home, having this thing that being your own boss content is kind of, uh, seems perfect for that.

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Um, so, uh, looking again at your Passion Fruit, you have four different ad offerings, uh, ranging in price from $1,200 for, uh, for, like, one ad in kind of the Thursday Sends, I think, to 3,000 for an ad, I believe, in the Sunday Case Study Sends.

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Um, how, how are ad sales doing? Are you, are you selling out? Um, and then also how do you price those? Yeah. So I price those on a CPM basis. Like, I wish there was a more scientific way to do... Like- Yeah...

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I would have done it, but it's honestly looking around to see what, um, competitors are doing based off the, uh...

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It's either based off com- what competitors are doing, what I'm just hearing from my different partners that I'm, like, working with or interacting with. Mm-hmm.

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When it comes to ad sales, like, a lot of it has been a combination of inbound and outbound. Mm-hmm. Um, it hasn't been insanely difficult, right, to get partners. I think of two reasons.

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One is because, like, the audience that I have, it's pretty clear, right? Yeah. And I can provide the numbers, the stats. I track everything that, uh...

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I track, like, who my audience is, and I can get even get into that, like, how I'm tracking- Yeah. Yeah... audience stuff if you want. Love that. But, um, I think that is an immediate sell, right?

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Like, decision-makers, ops execs. But also, like, it's clear who the partners would be as well, right? Mm-hmm.

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Like, the B2B SaaSes and agencies of the world, like, I think would love to work with this audience, um, versus some other newsletters which might be more general in nature. Yeah. Uh, yeah.

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So I mean, obviously, that makes sense. You've got this, like, very high value audience that you track really well. How are you, how are you tracking them? How are you backing this up?For sure. Great question.

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So, uh, two things. One is, um, in my welcome email sequence, um, I have, of course, like just the, "Hi, hello, what's up?" Mm-hmm. But then thirty seconds later, uh, I send over basically like a, a gift.

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Uh, in that gift, it's actually like a Myers-Briggs, like, personality quiz, like, for ops folks. Mm-hmm. Um, so within that, I- So Buzzfeed of you. Yeah, I know, right?

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Like when I, when I did it, I even like say within the email, like in the PS, just saying like, "Hey, I know this is cringe." Yeah. "I know this is super cringe, but I know this is also really fun. Go do it." Mm-hmm.

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Uh, and you can see people really love that PS, and they just like click into it. Um, so with that, like we have a couple thousand people who, of course, wanna do like this very unique quiz. Mm-hmm.

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And one of the questions I do ask, um, is around like what their role is, right? And most people who are signing up, um, are signing up with their work emails as well. Yeah.

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So like I'm able to like at least like go match and make sure like, hey, like are they actually saying who they are? Yeah. Um, another piece here is, of course, I do have the emails.

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Surprisingly, a lot of my email subscribers are using their work emails to sign up, so using, um, tools such as like Clay or other data enrichment tools, I'm able to figure out like, hey, um, what position is this individual?

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Like where are they at? Who are they? Mm-hmm. Um, as well as Beehiiv I think does a great job, not from a positioning point of view, but location wise.

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So I'm able to see that like about, I think last I checked, it was like eighty-five to ninety percent of people like live in either US or Canada. Yeah. Right?

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So like I think just like that combination has been really good for like advertising sales. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, let's talk about actually building this audience.

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So, uh, one observation I'll, I'll start with is in, in your...

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You have, you have this great post reflecting on your first year of running it, and there you share an audience growth graph, and it's basically like the first kinda two or three months you're going pretty slow, and then you kinda rock it up, um, to twenty-one thousand, and then you're kinda stuck at twenty-one thousand or so for about six months.

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So I guess let's... Talk to me about like before you get to the plateau, um, how do you... 'Cause I think so many people think you like need a big social media following to grow, uh, a newsletter audience.

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Not necessarily true. Maybe it's paid ads. Uh, anyways, I, I'm saying too much. How did you get to like that, that first twenty-one thousand? Yeah. So for the first twenty-one thousand, [chuckles]

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it was a, it was a little bit of a struggle. So like how I did it, which I don't know how replicable this is. Mm-hmm. But when I first started out, like I said, I had that tweet that went viral, right? Yeah.

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Like, okay, let me go like start writing online, realize like, "Oh, this potentially could be a business." Um, just looking up like different resources, like how did people grow in the past?

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Um, it seemed like a lot of people were running paid ads, right? Mm-hmm. Um, as well as like different organic channels. So like I did decide to do two dif- three different things.

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One is like, okay, let me take on a few consulting jobs, use that money to then funnel into paid ads. There you go. Um, but then, um,

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while I was running through paid ads, making sure the newsletter, um, would have like a payback period within like a month.

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So like whatever that meant, whether it was ads, affiliates, or anything else, um, just so like I could like cycle through the money like as quick as possible. Interesting. Then the other piece... Exactly. Yeah.

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But then the other piece besides paid ads was like this organic piece. I think what was happening was

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no one else writes to CLOs, no one writes to BizOps folks, so whenever I wrote in, into any kind of communities, just saying like, "Hey, I've like written this thing," or like, "I'm interested in talking to other like operators to see what topics they would wanna like learn about."

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Yeah. What I was finding is like a lot of like enthusiasm for the topics or like at least the newsletter itself. I would even get like, uh...

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I would usually even get like a couple of dozen comments like in the beginning like, "Dude, your content is terrible."

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[laughs] Like, "This is so bad, but I'm subscribing because I identify like with this group of people that you're writing for." Yeah. So like I- It's terrible, but there's nothing else out there.

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[laughs] Exactly, exactly, right? So it's like, okay, the dese- like the desert's there. Yeah. Like, I can maybe quench your thirst, but like I don't promise anything, and most people are like, "Okay, cool."

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Like, "Let's just check it out. It's free. Why not?"

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So like that was a combination of the first like twenty, twenty-one thousand people of, of like me just like hustling, reaching out to people I knew or like communities I knew that existed.

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Had you done paid advertising before, like at, at your, at your old jobs, at your old companies? Yeah. So at Firstbase, I was... Like we didn't really get into like the roles I had, but basically- Yeah...

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I owned like everything at some point. So I learned pretty quickly how to run paid ads. Yeah. So like I had a couple hundred thousand dollar budget that like I was just like managing. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.

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Um, so then the twenty-one thousand plateau, you're there for a while.

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I don't know if you're still trying things, but you do say, again, in this one-year reflection post that like kinda the way you finally broke out of that was that you started running these guest posts, um, you kinda tweaked the way you were doing paid ads, and then you revamped your subscriber onboarding and added that quiz.

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So yeah, t-t-tell me more about breaking out of... 'Cause it's like literally like six months and you were kind of dipping, losing subscribers, as one does, and six months or so stuck there.

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Tell me about breaking out of that. For sure. So just on a personal level, I got in a funk, right? Yeah. So I did not expect the growth that I did within the first month.

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So like you have to understand the timeline of like, let's say,

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um, I go from like COO, someone who's always in the background, like not really looking for the spotlight in any way, um, to now, okay, I'm writing to an audience of like twenty-one thousand people, not expecting like this to become an actual business.

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Like again, the original intent was like, I'm just gonna write online until I find the thing. Yeah.

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So in the back of my head, actually, even until I got to the twenty-one thousand people, I was like, "Oh, this is a side project." [laughs] Like, "This is just the middle gap until I find the next thing." Yeah. Right?

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I'm consulting. So- This is for fun. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. It's like I just had a baby in January, you know. Like I'm just doing this to pay bills until like the thing hap- like the next thing happens, right? Yeah.

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But then-As we were growing, um, I, like, hit that funk, I think, in March. I was like, "Dude," like, you know, "what am I doing?" Mm-hmm.

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Like, I'm not sure if, like, this is the right move for me from, like, a professional or even- Mm... like, from a personal level. Like, where do I go with this?

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And I think you can even see potentially in the quality of writing, it's like it kinda stagnates a little bit, where it's like- Mm... okay, it's clear, like, he's trying to figure out what he wants to do.

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Um, as well as, like, with the paid offerings, right? So Cornerstone hadn't been released yet. I was still, like, doing these consulting things on the side.

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Still trying to figure how to do ad sales 'cause I didn't even know how to do that yet, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I was, like, learning all of this at the same time. Create content, distribute.

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I mean, like, literally I was like a child trying to learn how to run and, like, I had the great support of the audience. I had, like, everything there. Yeah.

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Just, like, me trying to figure out the puzzle pieces in my head. So then going, like, through this process, I think some folks who were, like, just super helpful, um, were already experienced newsletter operators. Mm.

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Right? Either who had started around a similar time period as me, um, and had just, like, grown just as fast or even faster, um, as well as people who had already exited, like, their newsletter, like, operations. Yeah.

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As well as, like, frankly, like,

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some startup people as well, 'cause, like, I think in the back of my head I had this image of, like, yeah, like, I come from startup land, and, like, is being a newsletter writer really, like, the most, like,

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cool thing for me to do right now? Like, I guess that was, like, also, like, something in my head. But, like, most people basically, like, verbally smacked me saying, like, "Dude, you're so dumb."

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You're killing it, right. Like, "This is, like, such a valuable d- thing." Yeah "Like, you're killing it. You're doing great."

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Um, so while through this malaise I was like, "Okay, let me, like, figure out how to work with, like, guest writers who, like, I just really like," so I brought in a few people to guest post on Sunday editions just to see, like, what that would look like.

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Audience loved it. They were like, "Yeah," like, "we're not here necessarily for you, Ramiel. We're here to learn," like, whatever that may be. Yeah.

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Which is, like, also kind of like an awakening in me, like, in a great way. Mm.

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Where I was like, "Oh, okay, so, like, if I collect, like, a lot of talented writing and post it under, like, the Ball and Chain brand, it doesn't always have to be me." Yeah.

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And that kind of at least, like, unlocked, like, a little bit of the funk in my head. It's like, okay, it doesn't always have to be me doing this thing.

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Well, so actually I want to talk about this for a second 'cause- For sure... this is, like, like you've been saying, you've been...

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This is your first time being, like, a content creator, um, or, like, just working in content at all. Do you identify with that term creator? No. So I- Yeah... that's super funny, right?

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Like, I, I don't, I don't think of myself as a content creator. I think of myself as a founder, right? Mm-hmm. And frankly speaking, like,

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maybe this is, like, a not a good thing to say, but, like, word or titles don't really matter, I think. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, who cares about titles, whatever they may be. Um, I- Well, I, I agree with you.

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Sorry to interrupt. Yeah. I agree with you 'cause, like, I think, I think, I mean, I think about what, what does the word creator mean a lot. I've written about it a lot in the newsletter.

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Um, I think, like, on one level it's somebody who is, it's just somebody who's creating content for distribution on the internet to an audience beyond people they know in real life, beyond f- so it's, like, not posting to your Instagram that's just friends and family.

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You're trying to reach people beyond that. Um, but then I think more, w- a, a sharper point on that is it's, it's, like, it's a labor condition, right? Where it's like you're just working for yourself.

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You're, you're kind of working for these tech companies if you're on Instagram or you're on YouTube, they're taking ad revenue, et cetera.

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But, uh, all that being said, like, if you're actually taking it seriously, you are a founder. You're a, you're a, you're a media startup, right?

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So, like, anybody who is, most people who, let's say it, most people who are really, like, succeeding as a creator are a founder. They just might not use that word. Um, but I guess,

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uh, so when you're doing it, you're a founder, you're creating content, and that's the business now.

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Do you, is there anything you, like, particularly like or dislike about it compared to, like, other times you've been a founder? One thing I, I'll go one dislike, one like. Yeah.

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So let's, let's start negative and, and positive. Yeah.

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[laughs] So one, one dislike has been because I previously in my other role as a CEO, like, helped develop an in-office culture, 'cause I like in-office work absolutely. Yeah. Okay.

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So now I am of course, like, remote, like, working with, like, teammates who are, like, all over the world, and, like, it's not even a massive team. Yeah. Right? It's a very small team. I actually enjoy big teams. Yeah.

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I enjoy, like, being in the office. [laughs] Like, doing, like, whatever hours. Like, uh- You like the trenches. I like the trenches. Like, I'm just built for it. Yeah. Like, throw me in, and, like- Yeah...

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I'm just, I, I'm the one guy, like, smiling while everyone else- Yeah... is probably crying. Uh, [laughs] so, like, there's, like, that where it's like I've had to adjust my brain a little bit, right? Uh-huh. So

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the one part that I do like, of course, is, like, I guess an inverse because I am, like, now always, uh, virtual, right? Yeah. There's no in-person component here. Um, and because, like, my

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stakeholders, if you will, right, are either my subscribers or, like, my advertisers, whoever. Mm-hmm. All, they're all virtual. I'm never really on call.

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I actually can spend way more time with my family, which, like, frankly speaking, I would not have been able to if I was, like, up in New York or even my- Yeah...

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two other businesses that I had which require, like, physical labor, me going door to door, like, just, like, you know, like, dealing with old school, like, businesses. Yeah.

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So, like, it's, like, a g- give or take on, like, the like or dislike, um, but it's been an interesting thing which I think also contributed a little bit to the malaise, like, that we were talking about earlier. Yeah.

242
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Okay. So, so that's interesting, interesting 'cause you're talking about, like, the being in person versus, um, you know, being at home.

243
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Um, what about just, like, the fact that, like, the product you're dealing in now is, is content compared to, like, moving, I don't, like, wholesale fuel sales, right?

244
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Like, uh, working with, besides, like, the remote versus in-person aspect, like, this as a product. For sure. S- s- so to me, like, that, I enjoy what I'm doing now way more. Yeah. Like, frankly speaking, right?

245
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Because I think of two reasons. One is, like, I have the creative license to go any direction I want very quickly, um, which is a good and bad thing for me. Um, we can get, we can even get into that- [laughs]...

246
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why that's a good and bad thing for me. Um, but besides the creative lic- licensing, I, like, realized about myself over the past, like, year, year and a half is that I enjoy, like, teaching people- Mm...

247
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in some way, one or the other, and because I think because-I think because my newsletter is around the education of how to do a certain process, a certain, like, department, like scheduli- uh, leveling, um, I get to interact with so many different people at all kinds of levels, all kinds of industries, um, that

248
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if I can help even one person, like, 10X their, like, skill set, like I feel good, like, going to bed at night. Mm-hmm. Versus when I was, like, s- [laughs] slinging oil and gas or, like, secondhand- Mm-hmm...

249
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like, thrift apparel or even doing B2B SaaS. Yeah. Like, you're not really, not really changing someone's world, right? Yeah. Like, you might be changing their world, but, like, in a negative way.

250
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[laughs] Maybe positively. I don't know. But it's like [laughs] it's, like, you're not doing the best day. Versus, like, now, like I,

251
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I, I feel great, like, telling my friends, family, thing, like, whoever, like, "Hey, I'm helping someone"- Yeah... um, in an awesome way. That's really cool. I like that. Um, okay.

252
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So you were talking about other pe- like, your, your kind of... your team. Um, I don't know if it's, like, just you, and then maybe you have contractors. But, yeah, who...

253
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What, what does it look like to make The Bottleneck? Who all's working on this with you? For sure. So with The Bottleneck, for the first couple of months it was just me. Yeah.

254
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Just, like, writing, distributing, figuring out paid ads, all that good fun stuff.

255
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Um, as of now, as of today, uh, we have, um, a team where we have one writer, one researcher, as well as we have one media, a media buyer, so paid ads guy. Mm-hmm.

256
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Um, openly speaking, like, even our paid ads, we only focus on Meta, right? Oh, yeah. We've just found that Meta ads is the best, like, performing ad, uh, like, platform. Like, Twitter doesn't really work.

257
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LinkedIn, I'm not even gonna touch- [laughs]... 'cause I imagine it's expe- expensive. Yeah. Reddit, you immediately get yelled at.

258
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So, like, it's just like, let's stick with Meta and just keep scaling, and we've just been able to figure out, um, pretty healthy CPAs.

259
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So, like, our CPA, our, uh, acquisition cost is around $1.50 to $2- That's really good... which for a professional audience of this, yeah, it's, like, really insane.

260
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Like, the guy that I'm working with is, like, next level. Yeah. He's, he's doing awesome. Damn. That's... Yeah, that's really impressive. Uh, how much time are you spending?

261
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Like, what, what is your work week, 40 hours, 60 hours, 30 hours? Uh, so right now with Cornerstone, so, like, with the other, like, consulting and Cornerstone, so, like, all in, it's probably, like, 60 hours. Okay.

262
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When it comes to The Bottleneck newsletter itself, it's around, let's say, like, 25 to 30 hours, um, just because I have that team now. Yeah.

263
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Like, if I didn't have the team, it would just be 60 hours of me, like, writing- Yeah... curating, com- uh, commenting, uh, distributing.

264
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So I, I do wanna talk about, like, how these three businesses relate, 'cause it sounds like it's kinda the same, kinda different. It's like a flywheel- Mm-hmm... whatever you wanna call it.

265
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Uh, in your mind, like, which one... Is one of them, like, the leader? Is one of them your, your priority? How do you think about these three things together? For sure.

266
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So, so I wrote about this a little bit in, uh, my year, one-year review. Yeah. Like, how I'm thinking of it is almost like it's a venture studio, right? Mm-hmm.

267
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So, or a product studio, where it's the idea that I am gonna keep gathering as many folks into The Bottleneck as possible with hopefully high engagement, people are really enjoying what they're reading.

268
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I learn about their pain points, their struggles, what they might want or need, what they might wanna spend money on. You know? Yeah, yeah.

269
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Uh, and then provide those products or services, or partner with other people who could do that. Yeah.

270
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So Cornerstone was, like, the first product, um, that came up, because a lot of these operators are not only, uh, lonely at the top, but they're actually not able to commiserate with, like, the other members on their team as well.

271
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Yeah. Right? CEOs are usually second in command, where they have to somehow manage up, and they have to manage down, and if they ever show weakness, they're screwed. [laughs] So

272
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that community has been, like, something interesting to solve, but also there are so many other pain points, right? Yeah. Whether you think through, like, software tools, um, different type of agencies.

273
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Maybe it's around automation, hiring. Um, I mean, there's, like, a plethora of things that we could go through. But, like, at least for me, it's like, okay, I have, like, the base level. Yeah.

274
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Now let me think through these offshoots of, like, where could we go next? Um, and that's kinda what I was mentioning earlier about the good and bad. Mm-hmm.

275
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I'm a startup guy, so, like, I'm always used to, like, ship fast, go fast, keep going, keep going, keep going, which has led to some interesting, like, successes and failures so far in the past year. Yeah.

276
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So, um, I listened to your episode you were on a month ago, the Five Cs podcast, and you were talking about how you're, like, currently trying to figure out how to go from content to SaaS or data informa- data information product.

277
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You're working on this content commerce pipeline. Um, that's kinda what you're talking about here. Uh, is there...

278
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You also said, I think, in the one-year thing, the one-year post, that you've had seven major experiments, and that five have been failures, and only two have been successes.

279
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Um, and I, I'm imagining that those experiments are kind of about... Like, that Cornerstone is probably one of the successes, um, and those experiments are all about trying to, like, productize or, you know,

280
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build another business on top of the platform that is The Bottleneck. Can you go into some of those, like, failed experiments? Yeah. So, uh, giving you, like, a rough timeline, um, I launched in, like, October, right?

281
00:41:47.190 --> 00:42:00.940
Yeah. So, uh, from that time, within a year, I launched, um, a series of micro SaaS tools, and I can even send you, like, uh, that- Yeah... like, list. What the idea or concept was, was, "Hey, um,

282
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audience, like, if you pay, like, a very low subscription of, like, $10 a month," uh, the idea here was, like, I was gonna get, like, so many people to subscribe, and then we were gonna hire out, like, an engineer who- Yeah...

283
00:42:13.420 --> 00:42:22.480
who was gonna be my buddy, so he was gonna give me a discounted price. Um, and then we were gonna ask him to create, like, a series of micro SaaS tools- Mm... to, like, help, like, optimize, uh, people's workflows.

284
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For, like, little tasks. Yeah. So already... Exactly. But already that, like, is so convoluted. Yeah. Like, that process of, like, okay, like, how are you gonna, like, vote...

285
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Not only how are you gonna convince people, like, this is a good idea. How are you gonna get people to vote on this idea? How are you gonna- Yeah... make sure this person delivers on time? Like- It's too trickled down.

286
00:42:38.090 --> 00:42:43.470
It's too trickled down. It was too insane, but I was like, "Okay, let me try that," right? Yeah. And that was, like, one thing that, like...

287
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We actually ended up launching two tools, and, like, people were using it, but I was like, it's just-This is not like the route I want to go forward. So another thing was, like, I was like, "Okay, let me go way easier."

288
00:42:53.630 --> 00:43:03.020
Yeah. Let me launch like a digital, uh, like digital products, but like a bundle, right? So like notion templates, like something very simple. Um, after doing that for like a month, I was like, "This is dumb."

289
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[laughs] Like, uh, maybe [laughs] maybe, maybe like other people, this is great, but like- Yeah... this is like, I personally probably would not be paying like a lot of money for this.

290
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Like I would pay like ten bucks or twenty bucks. And if you're not paying for it, why are you doing it? Yeah, exactly. It's like if I wouldn't pay for this thing...

291
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Like I said, if it's a very low amount, like ten bucks, but like how many people are you gonna have where it's like worthwhile, especially like if you have relatively high revenue goals, right? Mm.

292
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:33.300
So like just two other things super quickly, it's like this is something that eventually became Cornerstone, but like I did this core community, right?

293
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Um, where like, okay, let me do like a very lightweight paid community, and then I realized like, oh, wait, like I made a mistake here because I have this executive audience and people who are already signing up.

294
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They're paying seven dollars a month for this. Like, what am I doing? Yeah. Uh, this should be like way higher of a price. So like that was killed in order to create like the next thing. Uh-huh.

295
00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:59.220
So like that was like a learning that eventually worked. Yeah. Um, and then I had two other service agencies that like I played around with, I pitched to a few people.

296
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It was around like this idea of like automation to like operation consulting, um, or like fractional COO, if you will. Yeah.

297
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That was also like one of those things where, um, I consider them failures because like those could have been like consistent successful businesses.

298
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Um, you can kind of lump them up with-- I wouldn't con-lump them up with consulting. Yeah. Consulting more like, "Hey, this is how you do the thing," versus like these agencies would be like, "We'll just do it for you."

299
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Yeah. Right? So like maybe there's a world where I revisit that, but like at least in the moment I was like, "I'm doing too much." Yeah. Well, so I wanna talk about the Discord to Cornerstone thing really quickly.

300
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It, it makes me think of like, you know, Planet Fitness's business model works where you pay twenty dollars a month, um, and they, they're just way oversubscribed because then nobody goes.

301
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I've, I've been paying for a Planet Fitness subscription for a couple of years. Last time I went was like a year ago.

302
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But then there's, you know, like Equinox, and it's like three hundred dollars a month or whatever, the idea being that then people will go because it's more expensive, all that kind of thing.

303
00:44:52.880 --> 00:45:02.080
Um, I, I-- but yeah, with the Discord thing, I think, you know, community is an overused word. Brands and creators both are always wanting to just like, "Let's start a Slack or a Discord," or whatever.

304
00:45:02.180 --> 00:45:13.040
Um, yeah, I don't know. I'd, I'd love to, uh, as it were, double-click on, on that kind of how long the Discord lasted and then like shutting it down, like that transition into Cornerstone.

305
00:45:13.080 --> 00:45:23.920
And then maybe you can tell me a little bit more about Cornerstone itself. We launched like that Discord channel or like that super small paid membership- Yeah... in February. Um, we launched Cornerstone in June.

306
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So like within four months, I was... I like just realized pretty quickly that like, hey, like people are interested in this like thing. Yeah.

307
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Let me see like what else is out there, realized pretty quickly, just based from my own experiences in communities or memberships, as well as what it looks like to do something best in class- Yeah...

308
00:45:42.580 --> 00:45:44.780
which is like always what you wanna go after.

309
00:45:45.500 --> 00:45:57.640
Um, I realized I not only was undervaluing the audience I was going after, but also, um, I think the value I potentially could have been providing to people would be way higher if I was charging more. Yeah. Right?

310
00:45:57.940 --> 00:46:03.880
There's only so much you can do if you're charging ten dollars a month for your audience versus like if you're charging a significantly like higher amount.

311
00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:11.580
You now, of course, like have vetted away people who might not be able to join that membership, but you're gonna be able to provide way more of an offering.

312
00:46:12.260 --> 00:46:22.160
Um, so with Cornerstone, like how we're structured now is we have three main pillars. Yeah. One is around the idea of like core groups. It's very similar to YPO, just to be quite frank with you.

313
00:46:23.250 --> 00:46:33.900
So we have core groups, right? So like you're placed with eight members, um, around the similar traction, size, industry, um, as well as just like similar problems that you may be facing, right?

314
00:46:33.980 --> 00:46:44.250
Because COOs are so vague in nature. [laughs] Kinda just like to place people a little bit like in the same like vibe that they're, that they, um, similar problem vibes that they're always facing. Yes. Yeah.

315
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:50.220
Um, of course, there's a digital community as well. And then the last piece here is that we do, um, workshops, right?

316
00:46:50.260 --> 00:47:00.300
So we, uh, plan to have like a workshop every month where people can kind of go in, um, with an expert on like how to do X, Y, or Z, right? So like, "Hey, like I just got sued. What do I do?" "Okay, cool."

317
00:47:00.340 --> 00:47:07.610
[laughs] Uh, you'd be surprised how, how, how many times- That was a quote, to be clear. You, you didn't- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, right. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

318
00:47:07.819 --> 00:47:13.060
It's like, "Oh, no, I have to deal with this situation. I've never thought of it before." Or like- Yeah... "Hey, like how do I set up my sales tax?"

319
00:47:13.100 --> 00:47:19.269
And like I know it's not the most exciting or sexy thing, but it's things that just need to be done- Yeah... that people need to figure out.

320
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:27.060
And because there's so much content out there in the world where you can't trust the quality, it's like, "Okay, let me go hire that expert that probably I'd be paying thousands of dollars to do it."

321
00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:36.860
But if you're a part of Cornerstone, it's just like part of the package. Yeah. You're just peers, and you just trade ideas. One question about audience size and like the limits of the bottleneck.

322
00:47:36.900 --> 00:47:46.920
Do you think-- Do you have like an estimation of what you think the ceiling is for like how big that subscriber list can get? For sure. So great question, and something I would, I was worried about for a while.

323
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:49.380
So what I found is two things.

324
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One is when I was writing, um, especially in the earlier days, I was going after like COOs and operation executives, but I noticed that, um, there was like a little trickle in of folks- Mm-hmm...

325
00:48:01.630 --> 00:48:03.960
coming in who were more like the middle management, right? Mm-hmm.

326
00:48:04.560 --> 00:48:16.980
Um, and the middle management were business operation managers, uh, program managers, right, but like, like senior program managers, people who are like aspirationally wanting- Yeah... to become a COO. Mm-hmm. Right?

327
00:48:17.540 --> 00:48:29.870
So when you start really expand-- When you start thinking through the idea of who is a biz ops individual or who wants to be a COO, like of course that like becomes way bigger. Mm-hmm.

328
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:37.860
And I think what's gonna eventually happen with the bottleneck is, um, yeah, like I do think it's capped, but I think like we're not close at all.

329
00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:47.840
It's gonna be in a couple hundred of thousands of people, I think is like where we could go. The reason why I say that is for two reasons, or im- for two reasons. Yeah. One is there's an existing subreddit right now.

330
00:48:48.100 --> 00:48:57.396
I think it has like a hundred and sixty thousand people just for project management.Right? Or program management, right? And that's a subreddit, like already exists. Like, it's already proven demand there.

331
00:48:57.496 --> 00:49:06.076
If you go on LinkedIn Sales Navigator, how many like senior operational like people are there? I think it's about like 5 million, right? 6 million.

332
00:49:06.136 --> 00:49:13.536
So there's actually more like ops folks than there are product managers, right, in the world. Um, so like there's definitely like a lot of demand.

333
00:49:14.076 --> 00:49:21.656
And then because of like how we write the content, um, which is very like much specialized in a way where we say, like, "Hey, we're writing about HR or finance- Yeah...

334
00:49:21.746 --> 00:49:31.976
or this or that or this," most people might come for one, um, area, but they might read all the other areas to upgrade their own abilities, right? Yeah. So like we're getting this...

335
00:49:32.456 --> 00:49:38.656
It's interesting where like the first couple ti- uh, tens of thousands of people probably are gonna be these CEOs, biz ops folks.

336
00:49:38.696 --> 00:49:52.166
But it's slowly, over time, either through word of mouth, paid marketing or organic, more and more generalists are gonna come in who wanna read, um, The Bottleneck to get their business from not necessarily zero to one, but from like 1 to 10 or 10 to 100.

337
00:49:52.706 --> 00:49:55.076
Yeah. That's, that's, yeah, ambitious.

338
00:49:55.336 --> 00:50:06.826
Is it like, do you have dreams of like bringing in like another writer and like you're an everyday newsletter, and like, like ha- like the way that the content itself evolves, do you have specific dreams or goals?

339
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Or is it kinda just like you've, you're in the sweet spot? I'm in the sweet spot, baby. Yeah. We're just, we're just, we're just- Hell yeah... we're just gonna keep figuring it out day to day, man.

340
00:50:14.206 --> 00:50:24.936
[laughs] Like it's one- Uh-huh... of those things where, um, I, I think the venture studio model just works really well for me. Yeah. Right? It's because like I don't experiment too much with The Bottleneck. Yeah.

341
00:50:24.946 --> 00:50:33.976
Like, you know? Like, let me keep growing The Bottleneck, keep putting out creative and- That's the sure thing... hopefully solid content. Yeah, exactly. It pays the bills. Yeah. But then like where are my moon shots?

342
00:50:34.156 --> 00:50:44.835
Oh, okay. It's just like this constellation around The Bottleneck. Now I not only get to scratch the itch of like, "Hey, I wanna go do like weird crazy stuff over here." Yeah. And like let's just see if it works.

343
00:50:44.856 --> 00:50:54.336
And if it doesn't, okay. I mean, like I tried my best and I'm just gonna keep trying, while I didn't touch the baby. Yeah. Uh, not... I have two babies, I guess. The bottleneck and then my actual baby.

344
00:50:54.436 --> 00:51:01.135
[laughs] So I'm touching The Bottleneck still. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're cradling your real baby though. [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Exactly, yeah. [laughs] Um, okay.

345
00:51:01.436 --> 00:51:08.556
I, I don't know if this is a question you can answer given that like the way, the way that The Bottleneck is so steady and then you wanna take these moon shots that are more experimental.

346
00:51:09.096 --> 00:51:20.856
But like let's say absolute dream scenario, what, what is The Bottleneck or what is also The Bottleneck and the constellation around it, uh, in one year and then in three years? Great question.

347
00:51:20.996 --> 00:51:31.616
So I think in one year, The Bottleneck... Le- let's just say like The Bottleneck constellation, right? Yeah. Like for lack of a better word. Or studio. Maybe bottleneck's...

348
00:51:31.636 --> 00:51:39.246
I'll work on a better word and get back to you. The bottling plant. Yeah, the bot- there, perfect. The bottling plant. Uh, the bottling plant. Um,

349
00:51:40.436 --> 00:51:50.296
so like the purpose of like The Bottleneck and how I like to think about it, even with one year or three year, so is like we wanna help biz- like early stage biz ops, um, professionals get better at work, right?

350
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We wanna help them get from, um, earlier stage to maybe even middle stage, right, of like their businesses. Yeah. Um, and hopefully their careers.

351
00:51:59.086 --> 00:52:04.596
So the way I think about it, at least within the first year, is hopefully we will have launched some sort of like

352
00:52:05.556 --> 00:52:19.126
course or on-demand, um, product where people are either able to learn about how to set up departments or structuring to make sure they take themselves out of the weeds of like their work, right?

353
00:52:19.956 --> 00:52:26.316
Because what we're finding is with The Bottleneck, they're a little bit earlier stage than who would qualify for Cornerstone, right?

354
00:52:26.776 --> 00:52:33.156
So what we're finding is like anyone who would've qualified for Cornerstone probably already signed up and is part of the community.

355
00:52:33.216 --> 00:52:40.096
So now what we need to do at The Bottleneck is like get people upgraded and like get them to the next level where they then qualify for Cornerstone. Yeah.

356
00:52:40.176 --> 00:52:54.176
So now it's like if you go three-year plan to one-year plan, three-year plan actually is like people read the Cornerstone, have developed their career enough where, or their business enough, where they now qualify for Cornerstone, and there's like that seamless transition, right, where they can apply.

357
00:52:54.736 --> 00:52:59.216
Mm-hmm. Um, with the next year we have to be able to bridge that gap where like, "Hey, you're a little bit earlier stage.

358
00:52:59.686 --> 00:53:07.176
What can we provide from a product or service point of view for you then to get to this end, end stage?" Yeah. Which is of course people are still learning, figuring things out.

359
00:53:07.596 --> 00:53:16.575
So like at least owning that value chain I think is like super interesting for me, and always top of mind whenever I'm thinking about like building out the next thing. That's smart. I like that.

360
00:53:16.676 --> 00:53:28.986
Um, maybe just one more line of questioning. Uh, I... So I, we talked a little bit about social media. Y- you know, you use Meta to advertise. Um, your LinkedIn now is like 3.5000. Your Twitter's like 2.7000.

361
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Both of those have grown since, um, since you started.

362
00:53:33.036 --> 00:53:46.986
And then I'm, I'm thinking about this in the, in the sense of like you as creator, uh, because then there's also the one other kind of place I found you being like a creator is there's this podcast you've been co-hosting for the past couple of months with this guy Andrew Ray, founder of another company called TaxWire.

363
00:53:47.596 --> 00:53:59.676
Um, which is actually how I found you, because the first guest was Beehive COO, Priya Goenka. Um, I don't think you hosted a podcast before, and I think this is kind of the most explicitly like you as creator thing.

364
00:54:00.136 --> 00:54:12.596
Um, so a lot of things in there, but I guess the question is like do you have ambitions to like put Romil as a brand more out there? Or is your i- is your thought more to actually even go back and, you know...

365
00:54:12.706 --> 00:54:23.236
'Cause a- at the very beginning of this, I forget if it was before we started recording, you said that like, you know, the CEO is in the b- is the COO is in the back room. You're not used to doing this thing. Um, yeah.

366
00:54:23.436 --> 00:54:34.976
So a lot there. But I guess the question is like do you want to continue being more front of house, or do you wanna go a little bit more back of house as this grows? So there's always like two fights in my head, right?

367
00:54:35.056 --> 00:54:45.786
Where I think for The Bottleneck to succeed, I have to put myself more and more out there. Yeah. Right? It doesn't necessarily need to be like Romil's podcast, Romil's newsletter, Romil's- Yeah...

368
00:54:45.796 --> 00:54:49.616
like whatever that may be. Romil, Romil, Romil. Yeah. Exactly. Like I, I would hate that. Like,

369
00:54:50.536 --> 00:55:01.156
but I think in a world where you're mentioning creator or like individual-led like product services, like-That just seems to be working in the name of the game right now. Yeah. Right?

370
00:55:01.576 --> 00:55:10.136
Like, a perfect example is, like, with Airbnb, whenever they post anything on socials, it's not Airbnb posting it and going off- Trust me... and, like, going... Exactly. Yeah. Right? So, like,

371
00:55:11.216 --> 00:55:22.346
obviously a very crazy comparison, but it's just, like, one of those things where, like, I think I need to put myself more out there and become more recogni- recognizable and someone associated with, like, COOs or bus ops- Yeah...

372
00:55:22.436 --> 00:55:32.256
um, for, like, me to achieve any of those, like, goals that I potentially have, like I was mentioning with the three-year, one-year plan. But in my brain, I'm also having to fight, like, "No, no, no, no.

373
00:55:32.316 --> 00:55:36.996
But don't go in the front. Like, stay in the back, and, like, get someone else to be pushed in the front." Yeah.

374
00:55:37.026 --> 00:55:45.976
And then obviously I just know that, like, there's the logical of my brain which was, like, describing like, "Hey, I need to be in the front," versus the emotional side like, "No, dude, you're a back office guy.

375
00:55:46.005 --> 00:55:54.116
Like, stay back office, and, like, don't be on video. Don't be on audio." Yeah. Like, just stay... Even writing is pushing it, and, like, you've done good there. Like, you need to fight this, like...

376
00:55:54.476 --> 00:56:03.696
Maybe it's imposter syndrome. I don't know what it is. Um, but it's always those battles in my head that I'm trying to, like, figure out. Yeah. Well, it's i- imposter syndrome, maybe it's like the... It's...

377
00:56:04.066 --> 00:56:15.896
What it is, is it's making yourself vulnerable, and it's exposing yourself, and it's like... It, it's, it's taking a risk on your own person, right? Like, that's kinda what it is. Um, I think... I don't know.

378
00:56:15.996 --> 00:56:24.416
Maybe one thing you could do is, like, you find some, like, super TikTok savvy, like, business school grad, and then they become the front of house.

379
00:56:24.456 --> 00:56:33.116
And, and then you get another one, and it's this whole media company, and it's Bottleneck Brew, wh- whatever, uh, the bottling plant. I really like the bottling plant. You know, that's free. You can take that.

380
00:56:33.126 --> 00:56:37.486
Dude, that was so good. [laughs] I, like... Yeah. I, I might, I might do a little rebrand. Like, something- Mm-hmm...

381
00:56:37.496 --> 00:56:44.166
you just mentioned that, like, popped in my head is, like, I think Morning Brew did a really good job about this. Like, uh- Yeah... what's the guy's name? Dan Toomey. Mm-hmm. Oh, good lord. He's so good.

382
00:56:44.166 --> 00:56:51.086
Uh, didn't realize he worked for Morning Brew. Yeah. Dude, he's so good. Fantastic. And, like, it's not like Alex Lieberman or Austin Rief are, like- Yeah...

383
00:56:51.086 --> 00:57:01.266
the ones in front, like, uh, advertising Morning Brew too much. Um, it's more of, like, at least from a video or audio point of view, like Dan Toomey I think in my head at least is, like, the front guy. Yeah.

384
00:57:01.296 --> 00:57:11.636
And he's doing that. And, like, maybe I could do that. But, um, I struggle to think about what would it look like to build audio or video content for, like, back office work. Yeah. 'Cause even that...

385
00:57:11.696 --> 00:57:19.716
And a, like, in the nature of the work, it's, like, not the most exciting thing, but I guess you could've said the same thing before Dan Toomey came in. Yeah. So, like, there has to be something there.

386
00:57:19.736 --> 00:57:30.856
Just gotta find the right person. Mm-hmm. Uh, well, all right. I think we will end it there. Um, you can go... Listener, you can go find Ramiel's work at thebottleneck.io. Uh, is there anything else you wanna plug?

387
00:57:31.076 --> 00:57:39.076
Uh, would love for you guys to check out Cornerstone, so joincornerstone.co as well if you, uh, just wanna see what we're doing there.

388
00:57:39.276 --> 00:57:49.876
And if you ever just want to email me, hopefully it's been pretty clear, like I just am always willing to jump on calls or just chat with people, so ramiel@thebottleneck.io. Perfect. Feel free to hit me up.

389
00:57:50.196 --> 00:58:05.416
Well, Ramiel, thank you for coming on. Um, and this has been the Creator Spotlight podcast. Listener, I will see you next week. [outro music]