What are the most common red flags that you tend to see in contracts that creators bring you that brands have given them? The biggest things to look out for are usage rights, money, usage, and exclusivity.
Those are, like, the big three. Those are the levers that you're pulling. Which of those areas tends to be the most complicated?
Once you start hiring and having a team, and then that team starts growing, like most small businesses in America, if you're gonna have a legal problem, that's probably it right there.
At what scale should a creator really be formalizing these things? Once you've made $600, the IRS treats you as a business. Don't make yourself an easy, juicy sheep of a target here, okay?
What are three or four of the most common mistakes you see creators making? The number one risk is... [percussive music plays] Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight Podcast.
My name is Francis Zierer, and today we're speaking with Brittany Ratelle, an attorney specializing in creator law.
Her entry point into this world was about a decade ago when she started working with mommy bloggers after law school.
Today, she advises everybody from podcasters to major YouTubers to Instagrammers, newsletterists, everybody working in the creator economy. We do have to state a quick disclaimer.
Nothing Brittany says in this podcast is legal advice, only anecdotal knowledge gathered from her work, but this is a good episode. I have been wanting to have a lawyer who specializes in this field on for a while.
There's a lot I don't know. I am really not a legal mind, but Brittany makes all this stuff really accessible and useful and helpful. So I hope you enjoy.
[gentle music] What are the most common red flags that you tend to see in, uh, contracts that creators bring you that brands have given them related to- Right... a brand deal? Yeah.
The biggest things to we- look out for are usage rights, um, and, uh, for that not to be clear or vague. Or, um... So a lot of times, um...
And this is getting better and better as the industry matures and more people know what to look for.
They have advocates and, and smarter agents and managers who are watching this, sometimes attorneys who are also having eyes on this. Um, and the contracts are just all, all leveling up and getting better, right?
Um, but in the old days, especially in the beginning, it was the Wild West, and there were terrible contracts, thin contracts, contracts that were, like, cobbled together as if you were hiring someone to do a commercial, like you were, like, Ford, and you were gonna have a talent, like, on screen.
Um, and it would be really weird, especially from some bigger companies, where you're like, "What am I reading here?"
And they're requiring the talent or the creator to have, like, insurance, like, or really big insurance or you indemnify stuff that they don't have any control over.
And so, um, you know, there's always been a lot of stuff to look out for, but usually the most common areas that you negotiate and you watch is usage rights, meaning how long do you get to use the deliverables for?
And typically, industry standard is it's in 30-day periods, right? And you get to use them on O&O, which is owned and operated, right, which is the brand's channels.
Um, and then anything beyond that, they should be paying, right? And so... 'Cause there's really two, um, two services you are selling as a creator.
You are a content, you are the creative production and ideation and all of that, and that's a great service, and you should deserve to be paid for that. And then there's the distribution, right?
There's access to your audience. Um, and sometimes you're only getting one of those, right? For people who use UGC, they're not getting paid for the distribution.
You know, they're just getting paid as a creative house, right? So that rate's probably gonna be a little lower depending on your niche and, you know, your expertise or whatever.
Um, but for a lot of creators, they're coupling both of those. So you gotta make sure you're getting paid and advocating- Mm-hmm... negotiating a fair price for both of those. So, um, so yeah.
It's those deliverables, but there's other things to watch out for. Rounds of revision, right? Mm. Do one consolidated round of revisions. Don't leave it open-ended.
Um- Make sure that that's written in the contract that we'll only be doing one round. [laughs] It should be written in the contract. On payment, payment should be net 30.
Maybe, maybe I, I, I take net 60 if it's a really big, juicy contract. Mm. But, like, I've seen net 90. I have seen net 180, and I'm like, "Net 180?" Net 180.
[laughs] There is a celebrity marriage that has started and ended in the- Yeah... in the extent within the term of this contract. You're saying if you see the net 180, you wanna do a 180, walk away from the table.
[laughs] Right, and walk away from this deal, 'cause it's like, I... You might get... Like, like, like, we're... I'm sorry. I'm not Bank of America. Like, I'm not- Mm-hmm... your business banker.
What are we, what are we doing here? Like, that's not... The, my talent's job is to be fun and be here. Well, how often do you see that? Like, I mean, h- Yeah... what percentage of contracts are you seeing now?
Actually, let me rephrase that. Uh- Yeah. I would imagine that maybe earlier on when you were doing this work, there were more of these unfavorable payment terms- Yes... let's say, and now probably net 30 is more common.
Of contracts that you're seeing, I know this is just, like, rough estimation- Net 30 is more common. There is for sure- Yeah... pressure for people to like, "Hey, get, get, get your head in the game," you know?
Um, you know. Mm. To quote High School Musical. But, um, but there's also... There's still... And it's funny enough because sometimes it is larger companies who you can tell- Mm...
they're just used to being kinda big man on campus, and they have- They move slow too... and they move slow. They have tons of...
And then they're like, "Hey, by the way, you're gonna have to fill out, you know, f- 20 pages of forms to get paid and to get invoiced, and it has to go to our slow dinosaur accounting department who pays and, and cuts all of our checks and, and does all the invoicing."
And so, um, so some of that is just, like, dealing with a big ship. Um, um- Mm-hmm... with payment, you also... I always add a late fee, always, because- Yeah...
if, if they say it's net 30, and we say that, and it's in the contract, that's great. But if they're not paying, practically what are your options? What is your leverage?
And it is an amazing thing that if you add a late payment of, like, hey, we're gonna agree right now if that payment is not in... And I did all my homework. I filled out your invoice.
I did your little software online, whatever. [laughs] And I don't have that money, I get to start charging you interest every day until I get that money, okay? Yeah.
Tell me more about that, like, what, what the typical late payment terms are. Yeah. I'll do, like, 1.5%, you know, or something. Or, and, and then you'll... You add a caveat. Every day. Right. It's like, yeah. Mm.
Or the, the highest statutory interest rate applicable in this jurisdiction, right? Mm. Because a lot of the times, I'm negotiating in contracts that might apply in different state law. Mm.
A lot of times it's California. Sometimes it's New York. Sometimes it's where the company is based. Mm. So it's Michigan if you're dealing with Target.
Um, I just was reviewing a deal yesterday with Abercrombie, so it was in Illinois, right? You know, it just depends on where the company is.
And so, um, I don't, I don't wanna look up everyone's statutory interest rate, so I'm just gonna put that in there and be like, "Hey, if your state's funny and doesn't allow that, then let's go as high as we can."
So yeah. Are, are creators sometimes bringing you in, maybe, maybe they had already done a contract, and it, you know, it's, it was net 30, and now we're at-57 Yep...
and, and then they're just bringing you in to, like, write a strongly worded letter and- Yes... and then they pay you. Definitely have done payment demand letters, right. Mm. And I've ghostwritten them, right?
There's a lot of emails on the internet that have been written by me- [laughs]... that people didn't know. [laughs] But I, I, I wrote them, you know? Uh-huh.
To deescalate stuff, for customer service issues, to try to get a business partnership back on track, and certainly to get paid. Um, I always say, like, reach out, review and send the contract again, you know.
Uh, do a little bit of, you know, petty office pettiness. Per my last email, highlight the terms, make it really easy for someone.
If that doesn't work or they're stonewalling you, uh, usually the next step is me to write a payment demand letter, or sometimes I even just get CC'd.
Sometimes my name, uh, which is, which is @aritel law firm, uh, on a CC has magical powers, and suddenly, oh, we found the check. There it is. You know? [laughs] That's amazing. Um- Yes...
what about non-competes in, in these brand contracts?
When I, and when I say non-compete, I'm thinking of, like, maybe this brand is saying that this creator cannot be publishing any other brand deals on their channel- Yes... for a period of time...
so that's called exclusivity. Okay, yes. So, um, and exclusivity is certainly, like, the next area- Gotta get my legal terms right... that you negotiate. After, like- Mm... money, usage, and exclusivity.
Those are, like, the big three of, like- Mm... those are the levers that you're pulling.
And it's also useful for creators to know, as you are, maybe if you're the one pitching or you're in negotiations and we haven't gotten to contract yet, um, and you, you don't wanna lower your rate, that's also something you can play around with, right?
You know, it's much better for you to change the deliverables or change the round of revision or something else than for you to lower your price. Mm.
Because once you've lowered your price, they're gonna remember it, and especially in this industry, people move around. And so you've kinda anchored yourself to there.
Now, it's not set in stone 'cause your following might grow- Mm... or the niche might change, and you might be able to be like, "Oh, that was my price last season, but this is my price this season," whatever.
But obviously, it's much better if you can just kinda toe the line of, "Nope, this is what a TikTok is worth. This is what a YouTube integration is." Yeah.
"This is what a couple Story slides or ch- or putting a link in my bio," like, all of that is worth something to somebody else. And so exclusivity you always wanna narrow.
And so my trick here that I always redline is, um, make them name the competitors. Do not accept them- Mm...
to be able to be like, "Hey, uh, you know, you can't do any other, um, any of our competitors for two months or three months." I don't know who that is, and my list might even be bigger than their list, right? Yeah.
Which is worst-case scenario. So I always redline back and I'm like, "No, no, no, I wanna know." 'Cause you know, you know who your competitors are. [laughs] You got a list somewhere. Can you tell me?
[laughs] Tell, tell me, and then even narrow that. If it's, if it's a big brand that sells tons of stuff, or, and you're in a small space, right?
Say you're a crafter and you're like, "Uh, you know, we're gonna put Fiskars in there." You're like- Mm... "No, they sell tons of stuff," right? Or Shar- or Sharpie or something or Crayola.
No, I, I want it to be product category. Okay, I can't talk about a washable marker. I can't talk about scissors for this amount of time. So- And I imagine that brands- Yeah...
are typically gonna be pretty amenable to that because- Yes... it's just the reality of, of this industry. Exactly, yeah. And, and you always have to remember, you don't know what deal could land in your inbox next week.
Mm. And so there is an opportunity cost, and so you need to consider that in your pricing and your negotiation. And so- Mm...
don't close yourself off to an amazing opportunity that could come in, um, by, by, by giving away, right, exclusivity that you didn't need to, right? Yeah. And so, um, so yeah, yeah.
L- l- definitely leave yourself some room there, um, and, and make sure. And yeah, again, ma- make it narrow. And also consider that your brand might have whiplash, right? Mm.
There's, there's the negotiated legal piece, which obviously you need to meet your contractual obligations, and there's also you need to think about how many, how many ads am I running for my audience?
How much of sponsored content are they seeing versus editorial, right? Mm, mm-hmm. Just like magazines and back in the day, which is really what a content creator is, is a digital magazine, have to have a good balance.
If we're going ad, ad, ad, and we're recommending this skincare, and literally the next page we're flopping to another one, that, that doesn't grave a, a g- great taste in your audience's mouth.
And so, um- You're spending some of your audience trust- Exactly, yeah... and you're decreasing the value of future brand deals. And that, and that's really precious political...
That's really precious au- you know, audience capital, attention capital. So be careful in how you're spending that, especially long-term, so that you don't exploit or, you know, oversaturate your audience, yeah. Mm.
Precisely. Um, so I wanna sum up quickly on brand deals.
The main things we've been talking about, the main things that you really wanna get right are payment terms, being the amount that's being paid, the, the payment, uh, window, the, the late fee, uh, situation.
There's exclusivity terms, and then there's the rounds of revision, and that's what you've been telling me are the three primary things- Right... to focus on in the contract. Does that seem reasonable?
Yeah, I mean, and then deliverables should be specific. Mm, mm. Most of the time they are now. You know, it used to be a lot more- Yeah... open-ended of like, "Hey, one post." And I'm like, "What does that mean," right?
Is it carousel? Is it a reel? What is the length, you know?
Um, and so, and then, like, you know, sometimes with term and exclusivity, that's really important because they'll name the usage rights, but then the term won't be defined in the contract. Mm-hmm.
And there's sometimes a ways... And again, they have their own attorneys on their side that are trying to advocate them, and they're not always trying to screw you. Sometimes it's just an old contract, right? Yeah.
That's been copied and pasted a million times. And so, um, you know, and then, then there's the stuff that's, like, the lawyer stuff that most normal people who don't think like this don't worry about.
But I, I worry about things like indemnification, right? Mm. And so I always wanna make sure, hey, uh, a brand should be indemnifying, meaning they should be covering the harm that results from their actions. Mm, mm.
I shouldn't be taking that on, especially for a big brand. So make sure things like product liability or advertising liability infringement, that's on them. If they gave me- Yes...
a, a trademark to tell me to talk about, and now they're in an infringement lawsuit. You know, there was a creator that was named as a party, and she was not dismissed, and this really scared- Wow...
a lot of lawyers in my industry, and this happened a few years ago, Molly Sims, because, um, and she was like, well, of course, she had no idea. It's not like she was doing a trademark search to find out- Yeah...
"Oh, by the way, you guys are having, like, any trademark drama on your brow booster," right? But apparently, you know, so that's something now I add. Um- Mm... morals clauses, right?
Most any- most entertainment contracts have clauses that say, "Hey talent-If you mess up and embarrass yourself, if you do something bad, if you say something ugly on the internet, or certainly get charged with a crime, we can walk away.
We can terminate. Sometimes we can even get our money back, depending on what the deal is. I un- that's understandable that they wanna protect their interests.
I- we should have the same right, because what if we have a Balenciaga situation? What if you, brand, are the one embarrassing me? What if it turns out that you have sweatshop laborers, and they do- Mm-hmm...
someone does an expose story on you next week? I also wanna be able to drop this deal and walk away- Yeah... because you are, you are dirty, and you have bad PR.
So it, it should be, it should be fair, you know, and balanced. Absolutely. So I say that talent should have the same right. It should be mutual, so. Mm-hmm.
Um, I wonder if you have any just ridiculous horror stories, really exploitative terms that you've seen in contracts and helped negotiate out. W- w- one or two or three of just any nightmare scenarios you've seen.
Yeah, some crazy red lines. I did see in a contract once, and this was for clients of mine who were YouTubers, and they were doing, um, it was like a toy collaboration, right?
You know, 'cause it was like family vlog content. Mm. And someone negotiated and said they needed to have a million dollar commercial vehicle insurance policy, and I red lined that out really quick.
[laughs] And I was like, we're, we're not even filming in a car. We're... Cars aren't even on, and that's again, that's an example of this is just an old contract. Yeah.
This was just an over-lawyered- That they've just copied and pasted, yeah...
that they just copy and pasted, and, um, and, you know, sometimes pe- I'm sure the argument would be like, "Yeah, but Brit, they're not really gonna, like, enforce that," but they could.
And we all know if it's in the contract, it is enforceable. And now I'm just going on the trust of them, and what if this changes hands? What if this turns into a bigger collaboration- Mm...
and this language is still in there? So, you know, um, don't let anyone BS you and gaslight you.
What, depending on, no matter what you said in your meeting or what was in the email exchange, if it's not in that contract, it's not real. [laughs] Yeah. So yeah, yeah, that definitely needs to be changed. Um, yeah.
Don't lie. I've seen some crazy exclusivity. Like, I've seen one where, "Hey, you can't talk about this for a year." And I'm like- [laughs]... "A, a year? Are you kidding me?"
[laughs] Like, I don't, we don't even know where we're gonna be in a year. Like, you know? Yeah. So for sure narrow that down. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, not, not have any of that.
Um, and then I have h- I have seen language, and I typically also like to red line this out, that says, um, no non-disparagement, and it's in perpetuity. Mm. 'Cause they don't put a term on it, right?
And so it's like, it's understandable if in the brief you don't really need bad-mouthing of your company. I understand that you probably don't wanna pay me for that. You don't wanna represent that.
But we also need to remember FTC law says my endorsement as a, uh, as a third party has to be honest. Mm. It has to be factual.
So I have to have had at least access to the product to be able to use it if I'm gonna talk about that.
So that needs to be a baseline, and if I do have a negative experience, um, and maybe we, we pivot, and I've had this happen in a couple situations where, like, you know, they ship the product to the talent, talent uses it, talent hates it, and it's like, uh-oh.
[laughs] I can't, [laughs] I can't do this deal. Um, do we just blow this deal up? And we've been able to negotiate, actually go back to the brand and be like, "Hey, bad news, your product sucks." Um- Yeah...
"but can we do, can we pivot? Can we do some consulting for you and get some money out of this deal and give you some feedback?" Mm.
And we've actually been able to keep that bridge and that relationship alive and pivot that into a long-term partnership, instead of just brand has a bad taste in their mouth, creator has a bad taste in their mouth, they never wanna work with each other again, right?
And so- So pivoting from maybe production agency plus strategy agency partner- Plus a little strategy... to instead, yeah... and sometimes that can even be turned into a long-term partnership. You know- Mm...
I've had cr- I've had talent that have done, um, you know, been brought on as an advisor and gotten equity in companies, you know?
It's something that sounds really, really sexy to a lot of people, and so I don't wanna give your hopes up of, like, oh, this is a normal play that you can do. It needs to obviously be the right fit of- Mm-hmm...
to the, the, the creator being in the right position and also the brand.
Um, and a lot of times it's more of a scrappy or startup brand who they have an awesome product and, you know, or offer, they just don't have maybe the money to pay for this level of partnership yet. Yeah.
But if they're really willing to partner and listen and this to be a long-term relationship, it could be a win-win for both, so yeah.
Something I wanna ask about here is really the scale of a creator's business at which they should really be formalizing all of this too, and I'm, I've also been wondering maybe at what point in a creator's business should they form an LLC.
The, the question here- Right... related to everything you were just talking about, about collaborating with other creators too, it gets to sound quite scary there. Yeah.
Is at what scale, whether of followers, whether of, you know, income in, into the business, at what scale should a creator really be formalizing these things? Yeah.
I say early, um, and of course this is my bias as a lawyer, right? [laughs] Yeah. As a business lawyer is like, uh, yeah, form your dang LLC.
Um, the advice I give to all small business owners is that once you've made $600, the IRS treats you as a business. Mm. So in their eyes, you are a business whether you filed anything or not. They actually don't care.
[laughs] With when you file a single member LLC, it's the same as your sole proprietorship. So, like, you're in the same bucket in their queue. Yeah.
Um, but, uh, there are some really great benefits to filing early and registering.
Um, the first is which is it's easier to keep track of your money, because, uh, typically when you set up your LLC, the workflow is file your LLC in your state, get your EIN, your employee identification number from the IRS, it's like your business' social security number, and then you go and set up a business bank account or bank accounts in the name of your business.
And once you do that, you are going to keep better track of your money, 'cause all your business money should be going to that account. All your business expenses should be going out of that account.
So already you're getting in some really good, serious adulting business behavior, which is how much money are you making, how much money are you spending? Are you, are you making data-driven decisions- Mm...
about investments into your business in terms of this deal, this course, I'm gonna make this hire, I'm gonna pivot in this area or whatever.
Um, and now, and it's much cleaner for you to do your own bookkeeping and taxes. I do, of course, recommend that you get p- help there, and I think one of the first great hires can be hire a bookkeeper to help you.
I know a lot of creatives hate that stuff. They're awful at that stuff, right? So that's a great thing to outsource if you don't wanna learn how to do that, right?
Get QuickBooks, get a bookkeeper, um, and start leveling up. Get a good accountant that maybe has some familiarity with your business.
I have a great list that I keep of accountants that I like and recommend and who are more familiar with creator industries and won't just give you a, "What is this charge for?" And, "I have no idea what this is," right?
You're gonna get a lot more questions about your records. Um-And then the last benefit of that is, is there's this palpable swagger and confidence you get when you form your business. Yeah.
And I've helped hundreds of people form their LLC, so I have a pretty good data set to know it's not just coincidence. And once you form your business, you are saying to the world, "Hey, I am running a business.
I am a business owner. I am gonna charge what I need to to run a business.
I am gonna make decisions from this place of confidence," even if there's still a voice inside that says, "You don't know what you're doing," imposter syndrome, whatever. Yeah.
I'm gonna channel instead, you know, my Roosevelt Man of the Arena. I'm gonna, like, get all that confidence.
And the LLC is something that your brain can look at as a milestone and be like, "No, I am a real business," right? It's a real business. I've done this. I'm taking care of stuff.
And it is, it's, it's kind of this important, um, you know, milestone to reach in your business. Well, a- a lot of what we've been talking about here is just, like, the paper- the paperwork is the reality, right? Yeah.
And that's kind of what you're saying here. How, how hard is it really to, to do that? You're saying you've helped hundreds of creators do it. I, I understand it's pretty easy to do it, um, just online in most cases.
It is pretty easy to do it. Most of the time I c- I talk people into doing it on their own, honestly. And I, and I don't have...
You know, and I give grace for, like, hey, you know, Z- LegalZoom and the, you know, the online companies, especially if you're on YouTube, they have a great marketing budget, and they are gonna follow you like crazy and be like, "Use our tool to file your LLC."
I don't have a huge problem with that. They are gonna charge you more. They're gonna upcharge you. They're gonna charge you for a bunch of stuff you don't need. Mm-hmm. Whatever. But if it gets done, it gets done.
Um, it's not hard to do on your own. All you really need to do is Google LLC and your state, and then look for the.gov, right?
That's how you know you're going to your actual government website because other entities cannot use the.gov, you know- Oh, okay... um, domain identifier.
And it, it's likely not gonna be the first hit, 'cause you can imagine government websites don't care about SEO, right?
[laughs] And if you land on a government website that looks boring and stuck in the '90s- Too safe... and there's, like, some eagle in the corner- [laughs]... you're in the right spot. That's the right spot.
[laughs] Okay. Yeah. Uh, I wanna ask about- Yeah... um, I guess we would call it IP theft. Yeah.
Let's say when somebody steals somebody's content, because to me too, you know, in the post-TikTok era, remixing, remixing has always been a thing on the internet, but especially in the post-TikTok era, it has been so accelerated, whether it's, um, what do you call it when you just, when you react to somebody's video?
Reaction content. Reaction con- Yeah... yeah, this kind of thing. Yeah. Um, uh, what, what's your expertise on this? What have you seen that's, that's, that's passable, that's, that's not? Yeah.
What have you seen on, on the content theft? It's, this one, this one is tough because it's a giant gray area. Yeah. Which it's a giant, giant it depends. And people are like, "Well, that's not helpful."
And I'm like, l- that legally, I'm gonna tell you, you know. So here's, here's what we know. Here's what we can anchor to.
Um, anytime you use someone else's content that you don't have a license for, meaning you don't have anything in writing, they don't have their permission, you should start from a place of, "I don't have permission to use this."
Right? You should start there. [laughs] Um, now, uh, you can look for some other things. Now, if you're in app and you're using an in-app feature, so say you're on Instagram and you're doing a remix, right? Oh.
Using a remix Instagram feature. Instagram gets a license from everyone to use their content f- for certain purposes. Mm-hmm. That's how they can run their business, right? That makes sense.
They're, they can also give you that license. So you're pretty safe in that, in that, in, in, in that respect. You're also pretty safe if you take someone's post and you share it to your stories, right?
Because it's for 24 hours. Instagram is getting you that license, so you're fine. But what if you take- You don't have to worry... the Instagram and you bring it to TikTok or to Twitter? Exactly. Mm-hmm.
If you move platform, you are not in safe land. Okay. No one, no one is gonna cover your... There's no Section 230 for that, okay? If you download something or use a third-party tool, same, same situation.
If you use commercial music, copyrighted music, and you are running a business, you are also not protected. This is a biggie.
And people fight me on the internet all live long about this, and I'm like, "I understand that you can get away with it or your friends can get away with it," and you likely can until literally the music stops and you're like crumbled- But you're vulnerable...
and you get sued for $30 million in a copyright- Well, how often... Okay. Yeah. How often does that actually happen? Because I see probably- Yeah...
let's say if I'm scrolling any, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, whatever, if I'm scrolling for one minute, probably 40 sec- If I'm just scrolling without stopping, probably for 40 seconds I'm gonna be looking at content [laughs] that is, that is, you know, breaking that law, right?
Right. So how often are, whether it's a, a, a creator or, you know, the music industry, how often are these lawsuits being pursued?
Not, in, in terms of, like, the how many instances are people going wrong and then how many are getting caught? Yeah. It's probably a crazy low percentage, right? Yeah. Probably less than 1%, for sure.
But the problem is do companies, uh, including platforms and record companies, do they have to be fair or consistent in their use of their rights, in enforcing their rights? Yes. No. No, they don't. Oh.
[laughs] And, [laughs] yeah. No, they don't. They can decide to punish whoever they want. Yeah. And if, and certainly I would say there's an escalated risk.
If you are running an ad, I would be way more careful, and I would not be using fun music.
And so even if someone tells you, even if your social media agency is lying to you and being like, "No, no, no, it's fine," nope, red flag, it's not fine. So that's, like, a very clear mark to me. Don't use music.
You cannot use a Taylor Swift song in your ad. You can't. Mm-hmm. Okay? You don't have the rights to that. You don't have a sync license, and that's what you would need.
I hope, and I'm, I'm hopeful someday someone will solve this problem, that they will maybe have an AI that will be able to do micro smart contracts and figure out all the... 'Cause music licensing is tricky.
There's a lot of- Yeah... rights holders in music, and that's why this system is broken the way it is, right? I get it. I don't, I don't blame totally TikTok and Instagram.
A little bit, a little bit of blame, 'cause they're playing at both sides. They're telling the music companies, "Oh, no, no, no. We have it in our terms right here. We don't let people use their music."
And they bury that. They do not make that clear. They let you add music right in the app on your reel, you know? Have you ever been- They don't have... Yeah... part of a situation?
Have you ever had a client where they, either they were going after somebody for, for, for IP theft, or they were- Yes... being pursued? You've been on both sides? For sure, yeah. I've been on both, on both sides of it.
And so, um, so yeah, back to the general remix. And so the, the next category is you may have fair use to use someone else's content. Mm. And that's what reaction content relies on, is fair use. Yeah.
But people have to remember fair use is a defense. It doesn't mean that you can't get someone send you a payment demand letter- Oh... or a cease and desist.
It means they can start a lawsuit, and you will have to go hire a litigator to defend that lawsuit. And IP infringement lawsuits are very expensive. They're gonna start around 100 grand, okay?
[laughs] And so you- No big deal... you, yeah, no, no big deal, right? You got that pocket change, no problem. And so, um, if, if people took it all the way.
Now, most people settle, most people negotiate and do other things, right? That's the way litigation works. But that is how much you have to be, how, how, how, uh, how confident you have to be in your fair use position.
And, um, if-The most important prong, and fair use is a four-prong test, the most important of those prongs that we get from, um, the copyright law is, are you impacting the commercial viability of the original work?
Oh, yeah.
And so if you're quoting all of My Cousin Vinny and just doing your reaction content in the corner and putting it on YouTube, no one's gonna pay the rights holder to watch that movie, 'cause they can just watch it on yours, right?
Mm-hmm. So you can understand how you, you likely do not have fair use, right? That's very tenuous.
So, um, my advice to people, if they're gonna do reaction content is, I wouldn't make it a pillar of your business, right? Yeah. 'Cause you should always know that you are building on sand. This is not a sure foundation.
Mm-hmm. Right? Um, and if you are, you should do things like use smaller clips, more chopped up, and you should add more creativity to it.
There should be more commentary, more artwork, more originality, more compilations. Strength in case.
Like, the more creative judge you can make to the work, the easier it's gonna be to defend that as fa- or truly fair use, because you could say, "Look, I have transformed this work.
This does not look like the original work. People will still go buy the book, they'll go listen to the album, they'll go watch the movie..." Mm-hmm. "... they'll do, watch the TV show," whatever it is, so. Yeah.
So I wanna talk for a little while too about the relationship between creators and the platforms they're on, and, and- Right...
content and account ownership there, and the specifically one situation from about a year ago as we record that really got me thinking about this, which was The Onion bought Infowars, Alex Jones' media company. Mm.
Mm-hmm. And they thought that this included, uh, Infowars' social media accounts. And then X, you know, formerly Twitter, now X, said that it had to give express permission for the sale or transfer of those accounts.
And so they blocked the transfer of Infowars accounts, various Twitter, X accounts- Yeah... to The Onion. And I believe that that is still blocked, and maybe is never gonna be unblocked.
I don't really know where it's at right now. Yeah. But that really was a kind of a, um, an eye-opener for me. What do you make of that? Yeah. Yeah. So most terms of service are like that on platforms. Mm-hmm.
They actually, you know, some of them expressly... And I would say there's, there's been a, you know, an evolution.
Um, they used to be, most of them expressly ch- you know, prohibit any kind of transfer or assignment- Yeah... which is what would happen in a sale, right?
Some are now silent on that, and so it's kind of like a no man's land. They're not giving you permission, but they're not, it's an all out prohibition.
Um, but for example, I've done lots of deals where obviously if someone's buying a business, they want the social accounts to go with it, right? Mm-hmm. You know, on various platforms.
Um, uh, or, or like a marketplace account, like if you wanna buy, you want someone's Amazon storefront. You want...
TPT is a really niche site, but if you're in education, it's a huge marketplace where teachers sell their curriculum, right? Mm. And I've done TPT store deals or whatever.
Um, and so normally what I do to try to protect myselves in these asset purchase agreements is like, hey, we list the socials, and then we also do a caveat of like, as far as it can be transferred, you know? Yeah.
But if we get blocked by somebody else, I'm, I'm not gonna rep and warranty that we can make that happen if it's out of my hands, right, you know?
And so we'll try to do something else or a make good, or, you know, we'll put in some reasonable f- language there.
But, um, but yeah, that, that is a, it's a glaring reminder that as a creator, you are building, uh, you are on rented ground, right? Yeah.
You know, you are, you are a, a, you are a tenant, and, you know, Zuck is the [laughs] is the thief lord, right? [laughs] Of your kingdom.
Um, and most of the time your incentives align, so you're not that worried about it, 'cause you, you're making money and he's making money. Yeah.
Um, but every once in a while, you know, you gotta, you gotta get your head up out of the trenches and remember, oh, you know, I don't own this. Mm-hmm. And things can change, and policies can not be in my favor.
My account could get shut down, and I can be like, "What happened? This is ridiculous. You didn't even give me a warning," and, "What about, you know, the strike system?"
And, um, it can be complete crickets, and you can't get ahold of anyone, and literally be shut down or demonetized.
And I've had to help enough people with shutdowns or community or violations or, you know, um, people getting hacked or people getting ripped off, that, um, sometimes we get help from these platforms, and sometimes it's...
You can't imagine the level of frustration that you have in terms of how much, uh, work and how much they've built and how much money they put into this, and yet, um, they don't care, right? Yeah. Meta doesn't care.
It's like, what did you say? YouTube doesn't care. What's the term? ByteDance doesn't care. Yeah. There's no, there's no duty to, to fair application, w-what would- Yeah... you had said? Yeah.
Yeah, they don't, they don't have a, a duty to be fair- Mm... or to be consistent. Like, that's not in their terms, right?
Uh, all they have to do is like, "Oh, we give you a license to show up," and they can, uh, they can suspend for any reason at any time, right? They, for sure their lawyers have put that in their terms.
Um, that's exactly what it says. Yeah. And so yeah, so you just need to remember that's why it's good to diversify your revenue streams. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Um, and take those things seriously.
If you get a copyright strike, take that seriously. Please go talk to someone, don't just ignore it, um, and do, you know, uh, a- a- and go on or whatever, um, a- and because- Yeah...
those can, those can pile up and be very serious things. Yeah. Yeah. That can affect your underlying business, yeah.
No, the, the way I use that anecdote, and when I learned about it was about a year ago, I was writing a piece on this idea of content capital, and I used it, and, you know, I should state my bias here, I work for a email newsletter company in Beehiiv.
Uh, but uh, but my, my point was that the only truly ownable form of content capital is an email list, because you can export that, you can put it on a hard drive, you can take it with you. Um- Yeah...
Zuck, Zuck can't just take that from you, as it were, right? A- a- Yeah... absolutely, yeah. No, and it's true, and in fact I've done... Because I've done some M&A work, right, as this industry's matured- Mm-hmm...
and now we have people who are buying and selling and acquiring things, and that's been really fun to be on that side, both buyer and seller side.
Um, if you have an email list and you get, uh, a valuation by a company, you know, a stodgy accounting firm- Mm-hmm...
which is always who do these, uh, evaluations, there is an actual value you will get for your email list. Yeah. Where followers and a social media account is not given the same weight, right? [laughs] There's not...
'Cause it's amorphous, and we're also seen as like, uh, again, we have the transferability problem, so that's an issue. And then it's a lot of times seen as too closely it's a key person risk, right? Mm.
You know, where an email list isThere is a number that you can put on there of the value of that email list. And so in terms of an actual asset to build, there's no question, um, an email list is still important.
And I would add that now SMS list to the same thing, right? Yeah.
You have this bit on your website where you say you really help creators legitimize their business, and there are things that people skip that make their business look like a hobby rather than an established- Yeah...
entity, and I think that's what you were just describing. Is there anything else that you would add to that? Um, biggest thing, or just personal pet peeves, um, having just, like, a, a Gmail address, right? Mm-hmm.
Get one that goes to your domain because to me that screams I'm not a professional. I'm not running a real business. It also helps your email deliverability, right? And so- Oh, yeah...
like, it should be at your, you know, it should be hello or whatever, hi, your name at your actual domain instead of just, you know... Pay, pay the five bucks for Google Workspace, guys. Like, look, come on.
[laughs] Let's grow up. So. That's, that's not that expensive. Yeah. Um, it's not that hard. [laughs] Okay, um, not having a business address.
And so I know a lot of, a lot of my clients work from home, and they don't want a commercial location. Uh, they don't wanna spend it. Totally fine. At a minimum, get yourself a virtual mailbox, okay? Mm-hmm.
And it's 10 bucks a month. There's tons of companies that offer it in your state, and it will give you what looks like a real street address because you need that address for a lot of stuff.
It needs to be in the footer of your emails that go out, right? Yeah, a lot of people don't know that. People wanna remove that- A lot of people don't know that... from their Gmail and they have to have it.
A lot of people don't put, put their home address in there, or they make up an address. Mm. I've literally heard a business coach t- recommend that to someone. [laughs] And I was like, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm not..."
I feel like I heard that same business coach tell me to, to pay off my one credit card with my other credit card and then get another credit card. [laughs] It's li- literally just drawing the...
They're, they're, they're like, you know, Jim, they're drawing the pyramid on, on the whiteboard- Ugh. [laughs]... at the office. It's like, yeah, it's, that's what I feel.
They're, they're, they're teaching you how to coach to be a coach, right? Yeah. Yeah, precisely. So it's, it's no problem. Um, so yeah, those, those are biggies for me is, like, you know, address.
Um, e- even getting your LLC name correct and having it tied to- Hmm... something in your business.
Now, a lot of people, I don't want you to get too stuck here if you're like, "Oh, oh crap, I need to set up my LLC, and I don't know what to call it," or, "I'm still working on names," or, "I have a lot of different forward-facing names."
Do, I would do your name. I would do, or something boring. Mm. Like, you could do a Retell Holdings, LLC, and then you can file DBAs, which are doing business as. Yeah.
Those are like little bridges that say, "Hey, this is the legal entity that owns it. This is what the public knows me as." Um, they're all sharing liability and risk, but you're legally compliant, right?
Um, but, uh, your payment processing, I say that, is should match something to do with your business because what happens is if you charge people for something and they see it on a credit card statement and they don't know what it is, they're gonna dispute it.
They're- Yeah. It's gonna increase your risk of chargeback and so, and friendly fraud.
So, um, you know, do, do yourself a favor there and try to make it easy for people to remember [laughs] when they look at that- [laughs]... or their bookkeeper does, so they- Hmm...
they know what they were paying for, right? Yeah. Um, I wanna ask about your templatized contracts quickly. Yeah. So the business is called Creative Contracts. It's creativecontracts.co, and prices vary.
I wrote a few down.
For example, there is an IP release agreement template where you charge $47, a website legal bundle which includes privacy poly- privacy policy, terms, and disclaimers and disclosures for $347, and there is even a hiring guide for business owners priced at $19.
Yeah. Is this a productive business for you? Are you getting a good stream of sales here? It is.
I will say, you know, I've had this shop for now seven years, and initially I really, I launched it because I saw a gap in the marketplace of, like, oh...
You know, people know about LegalZoom, but they didn't have anything that was really representative of the creative industry. Yeah.
I saw very few things for anyone who was a freelancer working in e-com, certainly not anything in the creator economy. And so I was like, "Oh, I, it's, it's not that hard. I can put these together.
I, I have these contracts. I'm working on them all the time, and, and I know what needs to happen." And I include training with all my contracts. Hmm.
Because my ul- goal, my whole business is I want to leave people better than I found them. I feel my role is to be an advocate and to be an educator so that people can, um, you know, stand up and, and have their rights.
You're good at making these things accessible. Yeah, that, I- I've, I have understood everything you've been saying here for example. [laughs] That, exactly. That's, that's, that's what I... I'm glad.
That's one of my core brand values, is I'm like- Yeah... it's if I have it, that's on me for me to do a better job as to under- how can I explain this to people?
And so, um, so yeah, I do various price points because a lot of people are g- are getting quoted crazy amount, and it's over-lawyering for me to charge thousands of dollars as if this was a custom agreement. No. Yeah.
This is a... You know, I have a giveaway kit because a lot of people do giveaways, and they're like, "Oh, I should probably have, like, some fine print on there." You should, right?
You know, and I am the fine princess, but, um- [laughs]... but, you know, it's not hard. Nice. It's just a couple cop- copy and paste stuff- Yeah...
you gotta have in the caption, and then you gotta put some long form rules on your website. So I sell a kit to make that easy for you to do, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Where are customers for this typically coming from?
Is it just search engine, or is it your 20,000 followers on Instagram? Uh, a little bit of search engine and then social media. Yeah.
You know, I mainly created content on Instagram, and now I'm also adding in LinkedIn 'cause I'm finding a lot of creator economy people are on LinkedIn. For sure.
And so, um, and to, to be honest- That's where I found you. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] You know, is that I...
But it also, it's my, it's my business that I love, and it's the first thing that I neglect when, when my client work, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, my client work always takes first, right? Clients have fires. They have needs.
They come first in my business. And so, um, yeah, the revenue- That's probably the vast majority of your income is your clients, right? Not this. Exactly. Has ebbed and flowed.
Like, there's been some years, w- again, a couple years ago, when it was, like, equal, and now for sure my client work is way more of my revenue pie in terms of... And they actually are separate businesses.
Ethically, I have to separate them because- Yeah... I have to make it clear Those Things are not a law firm. That's not me being your licensed, barred lawyer. This is not legal advice, right? Yeah. Exactly.
It's not legal advice. You gotta disclaim all the live long day. Um- Yeah... and I've also seen a, a, you know, a, a cut in that.
I think revenue's partly just my marketing efforts have been eh this last year or two, and also I think chat is coming for that business, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah.
Because I think now people are like, "Mm, yeah, I spend 50 or 100 bucks, or free. Free sounds nice," right?
And I will say, um, 'cause I'm also using chat, and I wanna make sure I'm using the best tools to s- to help my client solve their problem. That's my job, right? Yeah.
Is to be like, "What are all the things at my disposal?" Um, chat is okay.It's better than nothing at, at writing a contract. What's hard is that it can only draw from what it's been trained on. Yeah.
And so there are some contracts that are so thin, so new, so cutting edge in the industries that I'm working in, that chat, um, is, is a really thin, weak contract, and it, it misses all this kinds of stuff that I know comes up, that I know to add, right, in terms of industry experience.
Um, and so- Yeah...
I find it to be as a legal tool, which I know people are using it, so I'm, you know, the, the ele- you know, the elephant's in the room, I find it much better to help you explain if you put in a clause and you're like, "Explain this to me like I'm five," or- Yeah...
"Can I... What, what could I negotiate here?" Or, um, "How could I make this mutual?" Right? You know?
It, it does a much better job at that and closer to what an actual lawyer would do for you than drafting a wholesale contract from scratch. So. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I do quickly wanna ask about the, your hiring consultations.
So you mentioned this earlier- Mm-hmm... and I just mentioned you also have this hiring guide for business owners.
What is, like, the, the number one, two, three things that you try to stress to creators, creatives who are making their first hires? Yeah, absolutely.
Biggest deal is to, um, you know, as you're hiring, make it clear what the role is and make sure you're not misclassifying. That's probably the number-one risk, is...
And misclassification means you think someone's a 1099 contractor, a freelancer, right? They think they're a 1099. Uh, you know who disagrees? The state of California. [laughs] State of California.
[laughs] State of California. It's always California. It's, not always, but it is most of the time. They, if they disagree, what will happen is this person will work for you, sometimes for months, years.
Uh, they will become an in- probably increasingly important part of your business. They might even become your right-hand person.
Um, and they, because State of California will send you a bill and say, "You're in violation of our laws. You should've been contributing to our payroll system this entire time.
Here's your giant bill that you owe us of all- Oh, no. [laughs]... the back taxes and back pay.
And by the way, you haven't been offering a 401[k], and you haven't been giving them breaks, and you, and you're in violation of all these labor laws.
And so here's your giant bill that you need to pay us, um, you know, to settle up, or we're gonna come after you." So that's where... That's worst case scenario, and that has happened.
There are people that I've helped after that situation where they literally get these letters, and that's how they find me or hear about me from a friend, and now we're trying to...
By the way, you, there's, there's, there's room here to settle and negotiate. You don't just have to pay it outright, but, um, you're gonna have to pay something. It definitely is gonna suck, right? And so- Mm-hmm...
the, the tip here is to be careful.
Um, and so when you're hiring someone, and if you really want them to be a 1099, and you're not ri- ready to put them on W-2 payroll yet, which is understandable 'cause there are things that come with that- Yeah...
they should really be acting like they're running their own business, right? Ideally, they have an LLC. They are invoicing you. It's like they're a service provider, right? Like say, you know, they're an editor.
Um, that's a, a really common hire, right, for my people. It's like they have an editing agency and you're a client of theirs, okay? That's how the setup should be.
And so the more things that you can put in terms of the contract that covers that, the language, be careful about giving them hours, be careful, don't make them come to trainings that you're not paying them for, you know.
Um, y- that, because all that activity is more employee activity, right? Yeah. And then, and it's a very complicated m- 16-part IRS test to decide whether someone [laughs] is a independent contractor or an employee.
And then there's other states like California that even add onto that and make it even harder- [laughs]... and really want... And it's because California has no money, right? It's 'cause- Yeah...
California can't pay their bills, so they are, like, looking around, "Hey, who can we shake down for some spare change," right? That's literally what's happening. Um, but you don't wanna be the brunt of that.
And so, um, so that's kinda the number one, is really be careful. You don't wanna be the turned-out pocket. Yeah, exactly [laughs] yeah.
Don't, don't, don't be that, you know, in the lunchroom to have them picking on you. [laughs] Um, and so, and then obviously, the, you should have a written agreement. Mm-hmm.
So regardless of whether someone is a contractor or they're gonna hire them as a W-2 team member, that contract's the most important thing. And so make sure, please, that you get help writing that, drafting that.
Um, make sure if you offer any benefits, you can actually offer those, right? Because now that's, that's, that's a binding contract that you're agreeing to. Yeah.
Um, and, and then, you know, if you've never hired someone before, please get some HR and support as an employer, because there are things you need to do in terms of payroll needs to be set up correctly. Um, there's HR.
You know, you need to get unemployment insurance. You need workers' comp. You need to have those posters somewhere.
Like, weird stuff like that, which is hard when you're running a remote business or a digital-based business. You need, um, an employee handbook, right?
Um, you need to be careful of your labor laws where you live and also your person that you're hiring, your team member. And so you can see how quickly this gets complicated and with lots of jurisdictions.
And so I don't wanna scare anyone off, because I think it's really important to grow as a team and to have help, but, um, make sure you do it, because this is your biggest risk of you messing this up. Yeah.
Um, and then what happens is w- if and when you need to let someone go, now they have leverage over you, right? Yeah.
[laughs] Because you've maybe messed some of this up, and now there could be discrimination, there could be harassment, there could be, you know, they were in a protected category, and, you know, you found out they were pregnant, and then you let them go the next week.
And, and you, that might not be you trying to be a bad boss, but you can see how that looks, right? And so, um- And we are so litigious here in America. And we're so litigious in America.
And, um, and there are labor attorneys who are really good, and I'm friends with some of them online, and they do a really good job with their content of letting people know their rights as employees.
So depending on where they live and their jurisdiction, um, you know, and there are plenty of plaintiff lawyers who are really good at this.
And so you, you gotta just know this is, this is, this is, you know, stuff that you gotta take really seriously as a business owner who's being an employer.
And there's, there's an obligation there to do it right, you know, for all- Yeah... all the reasons, right? Certainly. Um, okay, so we only have a couple more questions left. Okay. I wanna respect your time here. Yeah.
One, sort of a rapid fire. What are... We've probably already covered some of these, to be clear, but I think it's worth repeating if we have covered them.
What are three or four of the most common mistakes you see creators making, regardless of medium, whether they're short-form, whether they're a podcaster or a YouTuber, a newsletter writer, the three or four most common mistakes that you see creators making that you sayStop doing that now Stop doing what you're doing.
Um, they don't form an LLC, so we did talk about that.
Um, their channel name, they've never done a trademark clearance search for, so they don't own the rights to their name, and they have no idea if they even could ever own the rights to their name.
So at a minimum, if you are using a name that's not your given name, even if it actually is your given name, right, because of the volume of trademarks we have now, please do at least a trademark clearance search.
If you don't have the money for a full trademark, my firm charges three grand for a trademark. Um, I understand that sometimes that's an investment for a lot of people.
At least do a search so that you know that you are not immediately stepping on someone else's toes, right? Yeah.
Because if you, uh, you could get a cease and desist next week, and you will have someone who will force you to change all of your branding, um, and they will do it on their time schedule.
They could even say, "Hey, we think you've been stealing our traffic, uh, and some of our sales, and we wanna know how much money you've made, and we're gonna sue you for damages," right? So- Yeah...
these can be really scary things. So, um, next one is don't sign anything if you don't know [laughs] what's in it, right?
[laughs] And don't ever let someone pressure you that like, "Hey, the window is closing, the deal's gonna... You're gonna lose this deal. I, we need you to sign today or tomorrow." That's ridiculous.
No one in this industry, there are no fires, there are no emergencies that are that much.
If it's a good deal, it'll be a good deal in a couple days, right, um, when you can get someone in your corner to come help and look at it, right? Mm-hmm.
And if it's a good deal, then they don't have anything to hide, and neither do you, and it will still be a great deal, and you guys can have a great working relationship.
Because it's not that everyone out there is gonna, is here to screw you. That's not it. But people make mistakes, they copy and paste things wrong, they, they get working too fast.
Um, and they, people have their incentives, and it's just business, and they're trying to do their job, and your job is to look out for you, right? Yeah. And no one is gonna watch your back more than you.
And so as you as a creator, you gotta look around and be like, "If I don't have these skills, that's fine.
I don't need to feel any shame about it, but I need to go and get people in my corner that can help me so that I can grow the way I want to, and so I don't have doors closing, and so that I have not made choices now that limit my opportunities in the future," right?
Yeah. Good, good list.
So looking forward into 2026, and AI is increasing, maybe there's platform changes coming, I wonder if you have seen anything on the wind, if there's anything you've, you know, heard about, anything that seems to be coming in terms of changes for creators- Right...
with legal implications in the next year. With AI, yeah. I'm getting a lot of questions, and I've gotten the chance to speak about this recently at a couple different conferences and write about it.
Um, my biggest thing for AI is there's, there's a lot of unknown. So I go to what, okay, what can we control now? What's in our locus of control and things, you know, that we can prepare for?
Um, as a creator, I recommend that you build a MOAT against AI, okay? And MOAT, in my, my little framework is I say you should monetize effectively, meaning the diversification of revenue streams, right?
So you need to own your own IP, right? So that means you've used copyright and trademark w- the way that you can.
You've, you copyright register your best stuff, your most prominent stuff, the stuff that you sell or that makes you the most money, right? Protect that.
It's the best 65 bucks you'll ever spend is to register your copyright for those works, okay? Mm-hmm. Um, and then your trademarks, which we talked about.
The A is to, uh, in, in MOAT, is to like authentically, you know, cr- attach to your audience.
The best skill and the most competitive and worthwhile skill that AI will have the hardest time recreating is a human-to-human connection. Mm-hmm. And creators, this is a good news, right, for us.
If you're worried about Sora- [laughs]... um, you know, this is the good news is you're really good at this. Because if you weren't, you wouldn't have been successful as a creator. And so keep working on those skills.
Don't get lazy. Mm-hmm. Stay hungry and stay humble in terms of how do I connect to an audience? How do I story tell?
How do I position my content, m- whether it's for entertainment or education or whatever, um, or lifestyle? How do I make that?
So and that's why people wanna hang out with me human to human, 'cause humans still like humans, and we will still continue to like humans.
And so you need to make sure that that is, um, that's being suffused in everything that you're doing in your business, and especially your core monetization strategy. Mm-hmm.
And then T in MOAT is make sure you're using AI as a tool- Yeah... not a replacement for your beautiful creative brain.
And this is especially important because we know right now in US law is that if something is completely generated by AI, it is not subject to copyright protection. Mm. Mm-hmm.
So it basically means it's in the public domain. If you, if you go on right now and you use one of these tools and create something, and it's just a simple prompt, and it, and it...
Th- this is a product, and you put it on your socials, if you put it on YouTube or whatnot, you can use it, uh, and so can everyone else.
And you, you can't do a dang thing about it because you have no copyright registration. So you know, platforms are obviously increasing in what they want you to disclose.
Audiences are probably gonna want also transparency, and you should disclose it because you care about their trust, and also you wanna make sure you're compliant with rules.
Um, but make sure that the more that you're using AI as a tool, I recommend that you document w- how you're using it, right, especially in the back end, especially if this, you're like, "Hey, this could be like a big deal.
This could be something where this could make me money, or it could go viral."
The more that you're using AI, the more that you should be kind of tracking your changes, showing your work, showing how you are making meaningful human contributions to that work.
Because that law is gonna develop, but guess what? The law is slow, and this is gonna take years. Yeah. And in the meantime, you've gotta post a video next week.
And so that's my advice that I'm giving to clients right now is use it as a tool, and be, go old school, which is like, you know, we... If you steal like an artist, right, Austin Kleon's b- great book.
You go from a wide variety of sources, and you go analog and digital, and you sketch, and you, and you go outside your verticals, and you don't get too narrow in your influences, and that's how really we should be using AI, right?
Mm-hmm. If you're doing AI and it's really similar to someone else's style, like-You're probably gonna be, you know- You know what you know...
yeah, you know what you're losing, and you're, you're in yellow and red light territory, and for good reason, right?
And so, um, so that, that's what we know, and then there's a huge whole bunch of stuff we don't know- Yeah...
that I'm watching those cases, right, a lot of other smart IP attorneys that I work with, um, so that we can give better guidance, right, to our IP space businesses, so. Brittany, I love that you have a acronym for MOAT.
You really are the fine princess. [laughs] I, I really try, 'cause, and I even have a cool graphic that AI created- Yeah... which the irony is not lost on me, okay- [laughs]...
of, um, that it helped, AI literally helped me, where I'm like, "Hey- Yeah... I'm a little worried about you. How can we help work through a framework here?"
But, um, 'cause that's the thing, like, you, we know a wave of technology change is coming. It's here. You can be crushed by it, or you can be like, "I've controlled what I can.
I'm gonna bless and release, you know, peace what I can't, um, and I'm gonna double down on what's working," right? Um- Yeah, that's actually-... and humans will always care about connecting to other humans, right?
Definitely. It'll just probably look differently, so. Yeah. So I wanna leave us on a positive note. Okay.
I, I have to imagine that over the last decade you've been in this field, there have been a lot of positive changes maybe.
Uh, in some ways, you know, the, the industry has matured, so probably there are better norms around contracts, and maybe there are things, maybe it used to be easier for some creators to get a bigger deal from a brand back in the day because there was less competitors, and that's harder.
Anyways, I'm sure in as much as in, in your work, in the legal side, there have been positive changes for creators in the past decade. Right. I, I hope so, right? Yes. Am I right? Absolutely, yeah.
It's, we are, we're still in a Wild West, but there are, at least there are, there are rules now. We know how to treat each other, and, um, you know, there's professionalism. There's, um- Yeah...
you know, there's some ethics. There's, there's the way in terms of norms of how we negotiate and how we do deals like this and what's expected, um, that really helps people navigate.
Because at the end of the day, the contracts in, in terms of why they exist at all and why we need lawyers, and some people would argue we don't, right?
And, [laughs] you know, and that's for a-whole nother day, is because, look, our business relationships got so complicated that we were working with people we didn't know, and so we needed to have something where we could write down- Mm-hmm...
how is this gonna work, right? Who's doing what for how long, and then the biggest stuff is what happens if something goes wrong, right, and life happens, which we all know happens.
And so I'm, I'm bullish, and I'm excited because, you know, Goldman Sachs has given this amazing, you know, sexy number that the creator economy is supposed to be, you know, $500 billion by 2027.
I mean, that's an insane amount of money, right? And so 'cause we've s- seen ad money shift, right?
And from, um, you know, when we've seen Hollywood is dying and is going towards these prod- smaller production house and independent creatives, and I think it's such an exciting time to be a creator because, you know, we've never had this access in terms of, you know, democratization of technology and distribution- Mm-hmm...
and audience growth. Um, and it means that we can have a true really marketplace of ideas, which I love, right?
Uh, you know, as a, as a capitalist, it's like no, we should have a good meritocracy of who wants to share their story and their perspective and their offers and their value, and then the good stuff will rise to the top, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And so, um, I think, I think it's a great time to be alive, and while there are things that we need to work on, and, you know, publicity rights will need to be adjusted, that's a biggie of mine that I'm like, "That really needs to happen now that we have AI," because we're having serious problems with deepfakes and how good they're getting, you know?
Um, so there, there, yes, there are areas that need to develop and things that need to change on platforms and more support for creators.
But, um, but yeah, there's a lot to celebrate and to be grateful for, and, uh, you know, just having your, your hands in your own destiny, which, um, yeah, which is really awesome, yeah. I love it.
Brittany, thank you for coming on. This was such a, a informative conversation. I learned a lot. I'm so glad. Well, thanks so much for having me, Francis, and yeah, this has been... It's great.
I love Creator Spotlight, and yeah, honor-honor to be on. Thank you. So yeah. Where, um, any listeners who wanna work with you or follow you on socials, where should they go?
Um, website's probably the best thing, brittanyratelle.com.
Everything's linked on there, and then on socials, I'm lucky enough I have a unique last name, and so yeah, you can connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn is normally where I'm talking, commenting, um, and would love to connect with anyone there.
Um, I love making friends and answering questions, and whether it's a resource that I have that I can help you with or maybe someone else that I know, um, yeah, don't, don't be a stranger. So yeah. There we go.
Well, thank you for coming on, and for the listener, we will see you next week. [outro music]