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If you're a journalist and you want to, like, build a platform for your work, you have to go out there and learn to do the entrepreneurial bit. Yeah, teach yourself, and it's not easy, and it's confusing.

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What are you now? Are you a creator? Are you a journalist? Are you an entrepreneur? What are you? I think I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a writer. I don't consider myself a creator.

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I think that there's a fuzzy line between, like, creators and influencers. I wanna talk about your finances for a second. Oh, we are figuring that out.

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I have a lot of ideas, and it's, like, really fun to have a lot of ideas, but then you have to go and do the ideas, and you have to say no to a lot of them. That's the entrepreneurial instinct. Yeah.

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I think that people should care about putting good work out into the world. I do firmly believe that people still really like to read interesting articles and engage with quality content, and it's a hill I will die on.

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[percussive music] Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight Podcast. Today, we're speaking with Lindsey Stanberry, creator of a newsletter called The Purse, which is about money, motherhood, work, and relationships.

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This is her first project as an independent creator, but she's spent two decades working in media in various ways, um, really the last decade, uh, where she's largely been covering women and money for outlets including Refinery29, CNBC, and most recently, Fortune, where she was an executive editor.

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Um, so I wanna start there. Like I said, this is your first jo- your first, you know, project as kind of an independent creator. Yeah. Do you miss anything about being part of a larger organization?

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You left Fortune in May 2023. Um, I miss my team. I had the best reporters. Um, actually, I connected with them first at CNBC, and then many of them came with me to Fortune when I went.

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Uh, and they were the, the best, and I miss just having, like, a really good editorial team, like, sit around and brainstorm with. Um, it gets a little lonely working by myself. I don't miss the politics. I don't miss...

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I still worry about traffic and open rates and all that stuff, but, like, on my own, on my own time with my own set of goals. So those things I, I don't miss- Yeah... at all.

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[chuckles] Um, do you, are you still freelancing? 'Cause I know you were for a little while.

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Um, you definitely were, and then now y- you know, the, The Purse is growing more as a business, but are you still d- doing a good amount of freelance work on the side? Yeah. I, I go, I go back and forth.

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I ebb and flow with it, um, sort of depending on the seasons of The Purse and the seasons of freelance. I don't like to freelance write.

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I really like to put all of that sort of brain power towards what I do at The Purse. Um, so a lot of the freelancing that I do is not always super exciting, which is why [chuckles] I don't talk about it very much.

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But I do some editing. But paying the bills is exciting. Paying the bills is exciting. I edit, I consult. Every once in a while, I'll, like, write a script.

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Um, but it really is, like, lights on money, and, um, I tend to not take really interesting projects because I like to save all my creative juices for The Purse. That makes sense.

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Um, the, the past project that I, I would s- I would think you identify most with that you definitely put, you know, it's the only one on the About page of The Purse- [chuckles]...

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is when you did The Money Diaries at Refinery29. Um, and I'm interested how, like, that is something you kind of revived with The Purse.

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The Purse is three different content, content franchises, and one of them is very clearly an evolution of The Money Diaries. Yeah.

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Um, I'm interested in, like, that being something you developed that I imagine is, you know, Refinery29 intellectual property, but then I, I haven't gotten so into your work at- [chuckles]...

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CNBC and Fortune, but I imagine what you're doing there was also s- kind of an evolution, not like the exact format of The Money Diaries, um, and then coming to now with this.

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Um, and looking at that and thinking about that, I was thinking about how, like, you know, so many journalists going independent now, et cetera, um, and taking, you know, the...

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It's not, not, not that crazy, like, take a beat you were doing and just keep doing it. Yeah.

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But really these, like, formats that you kind of, like, built and really got in the groove of, and I was like, "Oh, okay", like, so are, you know, journalists...

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A publication becomes, like, an incubator for your, like, journalism startup, your column that you take and take with you. Yeah. I'm rambling here a, a bit, but- No...

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I am interested in, like, how that is something that, like, is yours and, like, how it feels to take that now and, like, have no- nobody above you or on side of you telling you, like, "You can't do it this way.

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You have to do it this way." Yeah. What is it now that... Like, how does it feel that this is something you've kind of been working on for, like, a decade, this- It... Yeah... specific project? Yeah.

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That's really interesting. I like the idea of, uh, media outlets being incubators. I'm sure [chuckles] they probably don't wanna think of themselves as incubators. Yeah.

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Um, I mean, the reason that Money Diaries is in my bio is because the thing that I am best known for doing, and it's, like, an instant calling card, right?

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Like, you understand what The Purse is when you see Money Diaries. Um, I do have a series called Home Economics, which is a l- is a bit like Money Diaries, but different. Money Diaries is a week overview.

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Home Economics looks at, like, a more bird's-eye pulled out. You don't really get, like, the day-to-day story of, um, a person's life in Home Economics. You know, it's interesting.

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The ideas that I'm trying to develop at The Purse are many ideas that I started thinking about at Refinery and took with me to CNBC and to Fortune, um, and for a variety of reasons, m- you know, never quite got off the ground.

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Um,

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you know, at places like CNBC and Fortune, there is always a desire to reach more diverse audiences, but then I think when push comes to shove, there's a lot of pressure to also hit the widest audiences and, you know, stick to what they know.

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And I am very intentional in the way that I'm developing The Purse in that I, um, I don't mind if it's small. I'm looking for a very specific audience. It isn't for everyone.

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That doesn't mean that, like, everyone can't read it, but, like, I'm not trying to please 50 million viewers or whatever.

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Um, so-In many ways, this is my opportunity to kind of experiment with a lot of these ideas that I had to see how far I can push them, um, while trying to reach a specific audience, if that, if that makes sense.

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That makes sense. Um, so you started sending The Purse in June of 2023, right af- like, a couple weeks after you left Fortune. Um, but I would say you didn't really start sending it until January 2024. Yeah.

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The first six months were kind of more of, like, a personal blog type of vibe. Yeah. Um, and then January 10th, 2024, you write this edition of the letter basically announcing the new publication.

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The name didn't change- Yeah... but you lay out the vision.

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Uh, you basically, I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but you say it's like Money Diaries 2.0 alongside personal finance articles elevated for an audience of women from 30-ish to 50-ish.

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Uh, so tell me about that transition from, like, kinda more personal blog style to more, like, very intentional publication style.

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Hey, if you're enjoying this episode with Lindsay, make sure you follow the podcast so you don't miss next week's episode. We release a new creator interview every Thursday.

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I appreciate your support, and enjoy the rest of the episode. So when I left Fortune, I, I knew that I was gonna launch The Purse. Like, I knew.

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I had been working on a business proposal, and I had a very good friend- You'd been incubating it... former boss. I had been incubating it.

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Um, you know, in, like, my free time in the, like, early mornings, like, fingering away at it, coming up with the names and thinking about what it would be like.

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And really, like the, like you said, like the six, the first six months were a personal blog. They were [laughs] they were very indulgent, and I was just kind of doodling.

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And, um, I got into this program that CUNY offers, the City University of New York, the Entrepreneurial Journalist Created- Creators Pro- Program. I don't know.

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I totally butchered that, but- It's the Entrepreneurial Journalism Creators Program. Thank you. Um, which we all joked was, like, for recovering journalists who were, like, trying [laughs] to figure out what to do next.

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Um, and I took The Purse there, and it was a really amazing 100 days where I just got to, like, dig in. And I worked with people like Dan Oshinsky comes in and does a guest lecture.

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And you learn about the business side of things and monetization and audience development, and it really gave me a chance to really think about, like, "Okay, what, what am I really doing with this?

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Like, how serious a- am I about it? Like, what are the things I know from my journalism career that I can apply to it?"

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Um, and so I used that time to, like, sit down and really decide, okay, what am I doing, and how is this sustainable?

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Because also writing about yourself, some people do it very well every week forever, but that's not what I wanted to do with this.

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You have to do a lot of, like, living your life so you have new things to write about too. Yeah. Which is very difficult. Yeah. And I like to j- [laughs] You know, I'm, like, a Brooklyn mom. I'm not...

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I'm fundamentally not that interesting, and I don't actually want to be that interesting. [laughs] Like, I'm not interested in blowing up my life so I have something to write about. Um,

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so I developed a few franchises, and, um, I just sort of set some new goals for myself, and it really was, like, a... It was a huge game changer.

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It, it went from being something that felt like a hobby to something that felt like a business. Yeah.

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I, um, speaking of Dan Oshinsky, I have this quote from something, uh, when this comes out, this will have been published a few weeks ago. Yeah. But, uh, this week he p- uh, he published in Inbox Collective- Mm-hmm...

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um, his, his, his kind of blog newsletter. Uh, him and Claire Zulkey put together this piece- Yeah... called What I Wish I'd Known Before I Started My Newsletter, and Ryan Broderick, who writes Garbage Day- Mm-hmm...

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is quoted in it. Um, I, I'm gonna read his quote at length, and I want... I'm curious if it kind of reflects how you feel too. So he says, [clears throat]

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"I wish I had been more aggressive in the beginning about figuring out the business side of Garbage Day. I didn't have a ton of confidence in the project or belief that it could be a media company of any size.

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I think it is a very journalistic impulse to write that stuff off, partly because of the culture of journalism. You shouldn't know what's going on on the other side of the office.

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This attitude, good journalism will become good business, isn't useful when you're on your own. Nobody is gonna do it for you.

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I wish I had gotten over that squeamishness and started to figure out what moves the needle here. What do I do that makes people pay more? What is the line between what I'm willing to do and what I need to do?

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Once you start digging in there, it's really fun." So is that, does, is that you? Yeah, I, like, couldn't, I couldn't agree more.

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Like, I actually think that the biggest detriment that we do to journalists is separate them from the business side of things. It was an argument that I was always making.

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One of the best things that happened to me at Refinery was that, um, there was less of a blurry line there. Um, and so journalists were regularly...

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We weren't even, I didn't even, like, consider myself a jour- [laughs] journalist when I worked at Refinery. I was a writer and editor.

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And we were often, you know, collaborating with the sales team, and I could see firsthand how Money Diaries was a hugely successful financial project for Refinery.

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And, you know, during times of tumult, knowing my team- Wait, wait, real quick, sorry. Successful financially because, like, was it, like, an ads or an ads-based model- It was sponsored... with a lot of traffic?

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We had a huge sponsorship from Intuit. Um, and so knowing that, like, my team was essentially covered financially, like, we could do... We had a lot more freedom.

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You know, we didn't worry when layoffs came around because I could say, you know, [laughs] "We brought in all this money for you guys. We bring all this money and all this traffic."

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Um, and you know, I went to CNBC, and it's such a s- it's such a serious place.

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Like, it is very, like, old-school journalism, and, like, the idea that I would even suggest that we talk to sales teams and understand, like, what, what our audience or what our advertisers are interested in was just, like, shocking.

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[laughs] They were like, "You can't, you absolutely can't know that." And I really, I think it causes two problems.

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One, it, for journalists, it, they, they don't understand how, what, like, keeps the lights on, and so then there is this, like, snobbery about, like, "Oh, we couldn't possibly do this." But, like, bills have to be paid.

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Like, your salaries have to be paid.Um, and two, then it, it prevents them from being entrepreneurial within organizations.

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And I think journalists have a lot of really good ideas, and they're exposed to so many different ideas through their work that there's no reason why they shouldn't be entrepreneurial and, you know, go after sort of these bigger ideas.

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Yeah, I think- But they need money to do it. [laughs] Yeah. I, um, what, uh, the newsletter that's gonna come out tomorrow as we record this, uh, it's with this guy, Michael Kofman, who has- Mm...

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this local newsletter for the Catskills called Catskill Crew, and that's something I think I might actually use a part of this, that same Ryan Broderick quote in it, um, because he's, like, a startup guy.

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He's a business guy. Yeah. He comes from that. Um, he has this group called the, the Newsletter Club too that's, like, 60 other people doing these local newsletters. Oh, that's cool.

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And very good- very efficient businesses, right? Yeah. It's like this, it becomes a platform where, like, the- he's running ads. He's doing events. He's selling, like, product.

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He's- has this, like, Catskills monopoly board. He's selling that. So it's, like, a really entrepreneurial, smart business. Yeah. Um, but there's no...

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I asked him if, like, him or any of his cohort have- are working with, like, you know, hard-nosed, boots-on-the-ground journalists to, to put out hard-nosed journalism in these outlets, and he's like, "No.

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Like, we all kind of, like, talk about it, and, like, maybe we will- Yeah... but we all started with events and, and that's what's efficient here." Mm.

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And so I'm, you know, I- something I talk about a lot, you've probably read it in the newsletter, is, like, that, you know, the creative versus business divide in, in journalism and, and every other kind of creative profession.

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Yeah.

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But when I, like, look at something like what Michael's doing I'm like, he- he's a well-meaning guy, and I think, like, what he's doing is really good, but it's like he never, he doesn't have to hire a journalist, right?

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Like, that actually is probably a risk and will make him less money- Yeah... over time, right? [laughs] Probably.

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So it's like if you're a journalist and you want to, like, build a platform for your work, like, you have to go out there and learn to do the entrepreneurial bit, and I think that's like- Yeah... I don't know.

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I don't know if that's just something that's so of the modern era, where, like, everything is so, like, startup culture, and, like, you know, everything is gamified, and social media has become this thing of, like, growth hacking and etc., where it's like, it's just kind of like a, a language you have to speak.

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It's like- You do... learn, it's like how English is, like, the business language of the world. You kind of have to learn these, you have to know what, like- Yeah... lifetime, LTV stands for- Yeah...

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and CAC, and, like, CP- you know, all these things. All these things. You do have to go, like, yeah, and teach yourself, and it's not easy, and it's confusing. Mm-hmm. It's always changing.

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Um, so you did say that you were, you felt, you never really felt like you were a journalist. What are you now? Are you a creator? Are you a journalist? Are you an entrepreneur? What are you? What are you?

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I, yeah, I don't [laughs] I don't know. It's, like, the worst when I go to, like, dinner parties and have to introduce myself. Mm-hmm. It's like, what am I? Um,

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I think I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a writer, and I'm still an editor, 'cause I think, you know, once an editor, always an editor. Uh, I don't consider myself a creator. Uh- How do you define that term?

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You know, it's interesting- That's my favorite question...

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'cause, uh, my husband just now, he's also a writer and editor, and he was asking me about this interview, and we were talking about creators, and he's like, "Creators make videos on TikTok."

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[laughs] And I don't think that that's true either. I think that there's a fuzzy line between, like, creators and influencers, and

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I remember having a conversation while I was in the CUNY program about, like, how do I make sure that I don't fall into, like, an influencer trap?

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Like, I don't wanna be an influencer, and there's nothing wrong with influencers.

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It's just, like, that's not what I'm trying to do, and especially in the personal finance space, there's just a huge number of young women who do this. And they're fine, it's just, it's just different from what I do.

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And so I kind of, I think that it's, like, a murky stew of, like, writer, creator, entrepreneur, influencer, and it's like, uh, I don't know. Like, I haven't quite figured out how you, like, put a name on it. Yeah.

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That's, that's interesting. I think, I mean, creator is, it's like my, my joke- Yeah... but also not really a joke, that my ongoing project, my entire project is to, like, define creator- Yeah...

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and, like, plant a flag in it. Um, but it is a word that, like, you know, cynically, it, it means something different for every company that, like, like, whether it's, whether it's Beehiiv or- Yeah...

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Substack or TikTok or YouTube- Yeah... YouTube who kind of invented it, or Instagram. It means something different for how every distribution platform on the internet is trying to situate their business. Yeah.

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But the way I've kind of, like, my, my favorite definitions, the most blanket one is, like, somebody creating content for an audience beyond their friends and family, right? So you fall in that. Right.

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But I think beyond that- Right... it's like there is an entrepreneurialism to it. Like, I interviewed this guy for last week's edition as we record this, John Hu from Stan- Mm-hmm...

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and his company, right, they're, they, it's software that's like a link in bio tool, but it's like a digital storefront. So for him it's like creators are people who, like, sell digital products and would- Yeah...

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would use their software, right? Right. So I think, like- Yeah... and then influencer I think is somebody who, like, is, they are, an influencer is just a freelance marketer. That's what an influencer is. Oh, okay.

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It's somebody that builds an audience, and then they are marketing products freelance. Mm. That's what an influencer is. Um, a creator I think is the...

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And most influencers kind of have to become creators now, because you have to stand out. But- Yeah... all in all, we could, we could move off this in a second. [laughs] I could talk about this for the next hour.

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But, um, I would say you're a creator, because- You would say I am?... like, you are making content that's for distribution- Yeah... on the internet, for consumption on the internet, that you are trying to monetize.

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Yeah. And to me, that's all it is to be a creator. But that's, but you use the other word that I feel like everybody, like, cringes at, which is content.

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Which is like, it's such a, it's such a dirty word, and I try to find, like, ways around it. I think it's nice, 'cause it, like, it, it covers everything, right? Like, content- Yeah...

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is, like, podcasts- That's why people use it, because of that... and videos and articles and newsletters, but it has, like, commodified a lot of these creative products- Mm-hmm...

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in such a way that, I don't know, they, they've lost some of their value. Yeah. I don't know if you read my piece from the Thanksgiving week about City of Content Capital.

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I, I read this book from the MIT Press series- Mm... called Content by Kate Acorn- Yeah... who's, like, a media theorist. Um-And there were some really good definitions of content in there.

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For me, content is like, I just accept that it's, you know, anything you consume- Yeah... you can consume on your phone. That's kind of my definition. Mm, I like that. But one of her definitions...

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Well, really, her definition was, like, anything that circulates digitally. Mm. So she used, like, the Instagram egg from a few years ago. You know, the thing that was like- Yeah [laughs]...

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would get the most likes all the time. That was the perfect example of content- Mm, yeah... 'cause it exists purely to circulate digitally. Um, so- Yeah...

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you know, I think content is, like, this dangerous term for journalists, whatever, because it, like, it does turn everything into this soup of, you know, stuff you look at on your phone. Yeah.

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But I think it's like that is the definition of content- Right... and it's not like you can't really change that. That toothpaste is- Oh, it's so- There's several tooth- toothpastes out there too... it's, yes, it is.

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Yeah, exactly. It is. We're not getting any of this... Not, like- No...

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and none of it, and, like, the truth of the matter at the end of the day, and I actually think this is something that's a detriment to journalists, is that they tend to be- Mm-hmm...

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it, like, goes back to, like, the business conversation we were having- Yeah... at the beginning- Exactly... is, like, journalists are terrible [laughs] snobs. I've worked with a lot of them,

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and maybe, I may or may not be one myself, but it's like- Mm... they get very hung up in these definitions, and it's so that they can keep this sort of like, you know, walled, you know- Yeah...

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wall around themselves, keep themselves separate. It's, yeah, this, like, elite, kind of elite pr- Mm-hmm. I mean, look, and I love, I love journalism, I love journalists. Sure. I- I love pedantry, you know?

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Like [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Same. But, but you kind of have to like... It's kind of like a, you have to learn to swim in this. Yeah. Maybe you don't. A very few people don't, but, like- Mm...

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for, you know, the, in, in 20 years, like, you have to have learned this. Right now- Yeah... it's still this transitional period. Anyways, we can- [laughs]... we can, [laughs] we can, we can go on with this.

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We can keep talking- Yeah... about this forever. Um, so one thing I like that you do is you did bring in this summer a business partner- Yeah...

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Erika Velasquez Alpern, uh, who joined you in July after you'd put out a call for a business partner a couple months before in your year anniversary.

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Um, so this is a kind of like, I believe you're more the creative and she's more the business side. Right. Obviously, you know, these things bleed together. Yeah.

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Um, but tell me what she brings, how you guys work together. To borrow a term from, uh, the newsletter, what is your division of labor? Yeah. [laughs] Um, yeah.

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So Erika and I actually knew each other from my Refinery days. Um, she was running a small PR and marketing firm back then.

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We've stayed in touch over the years and always had, like, really good conversations about the state of media. And, like, just great timing, you know?

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Like, you're just like the stars were aligned, and she had just left a big job and was looking to figure out what she wanted to do next, and I was like, "Do you wanna do this thing with me?" And she's like, "Yes."

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"Perfect. Do it." Um, so

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I had really come to the point after a year of realizing, like, uh, there are a lot of things I'm very good at, and there are a lot of things that I still need to learn, and just having some support and a friend, um, and I recognize that business partner is not always a friend, but it works out well that Erika's both,

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um, would just help me accelerate, um, what I was doing. Um, I still handle all editorial. I do all the creative work.

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Um, and Erika is, you know, the master of g- our growth strategy and what we're doing on social and, you know, those kinds of different things.

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And then we both, we're beginning to experiment with events, and so we both kind of share events, but she does a lot of the, like, heavy lifting in terms of, like, finding sponsors and organizing, finding space, the different kind of, um,

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admin things that, that go along with events. Has there been, like, a marked material change? W- It's been four months or so you've been working with her.

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Has there been, like, a very immediate kind of change in anything about the operations?

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You know, I'd say, like, the biggest, there's, like, two big things which, like, on paper don't necessarily look like a lot but for me mentally have meant a lot, which is, one is just, like, it feels like a real business.

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Like, [laughs] I have a business partner. Like, we have a Slack channel. Uh, we have goals, uh, which were things that I didn't necessarily have time to set up on my own.

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Maybe I would've gotten around to eventually, but, like, was just kind of plodding along.

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So it just, it, you know, I kind of think about, like, in January when I moved to Substack was, like, phase one of this, and then bringing Erika on was phase two, and I'm sure there's gonna be, like, 100 more phases as we develop into a business.

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Um, and then the other thing is that, like, it's just so nice to have a partner. Like I said, you know, you asked me what I missed about my job.

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Like, I really missed, I miss my team, and I missed having somebody to collaborate with, somebody to, like, complain to, and to, uh, bounce ideas off of, and, like, dream with, and that's been such a game changer.

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We got together this week to start planning our 2025 events, and it's just so much fun. Like [laughs] I just can't believe this is my job. It's really nice. That is nice.

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Um, I, I definitely, I love it when I talk to people who do have, like, a partner- Yeah... in whatever, in the newsletter, YouTube, whatever it is. Um, I, I think more people should do that.

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I should probably do that more. Um- Yeah... how do you split, like, the stake in the business or the compensation? Oh, we are figuring that out. [laughs] Um, yeah.

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We're, like, we're working with our lawyer right now to kind of hammer it all out, and, um, you know, it makes sense.

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I, I'm not gonna go too deep into it, 'cause it's, like, still too, it's still, like, there's no, there's, the ink is not yet dry on the contract. Um, but I'm, we're trying to make it fair. I am,

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I mean, I try to live what I write about, and I always wanna make sure that people feel like things are fair. Um, and for better or worse, I'm not necessarily driven by money.

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[laughs] Like, probably should not say this on podcast that's going out into the world, but I, I'm not.

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Like, I would like to be paid fairly for the work I do and make a comfortable living, but it's like I'm not doing this so I'm like some- No, no. I, I love that you say that.

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Like, that's kind of the, my philosophy with this whole project, right? Mm-hmm. Is that, like, I think that people should care about putting good work out into the world- Yeah...

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and, like, but also making enough money doing it to continue doing it. Like- Yes... I'm not- That is the goal... that's what I try to pr- that's what I try to promote. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

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And so I, I also, like, it-The, the nice thing about Erica and the thing that I've always said with The Purse is like it's not ever supposed to be about me.

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That's why I have the different franchises bringing in different voices and why I like having her as part of it, is 'cause I don't want it to be just a singular, um, a singular, a singular property.

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It is not, it is not the Lindsay show, it is The Purse. [laughs] Yeah. That's, that's just your LLC, as you say. Yeah. [laughs] Um, so let's talk about the content fra- content franchises. Yeah. So you have three.

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Uh, there are Home Economics- Mm-hmm... which is kind of the Money Diaries, uh, evolution. Yeah. There's Division of Labor- Mm-hmm... and then there's In Her Purse.

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So tell me about what these are and why these are the three ones, why you didn't, like, what was on the cutting room floor, like how you got to these three? Oh, that's interesting. How did I get to those three?

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Well, I, I knew I wanted to do some sort of like detailed overview of, of women's finances, and that's how Home Economics came about. And I wanted to add questions to it so we could dig a little deeper.

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Um, just seeing somebody's balance sheet doesn't really say anything. You kind of have to know where they come from and what their background is to understand it.

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Um, Division of Labor came out of a conversation I had, uh, with one of my CNBC Fortune reporters, Alicia Adamczyk, who is just somebody, like we just have a great, um, editorial chemistry.

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And she's a bit younger than me and doesn't have kids yet, and we were talking about, she was talking about how she was just fascinated by like how couples make it work. And at the same time, I was going [laughs]...

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I went to this book club for, um, for some book, I don't remember what it was. But ev- all, it was Brooklyn moms, and they all wanted to talk about Fair Play, um, Eve Rodsky's book on, um, essentially division of labor.

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She talks, she offers this method of, um, how couples can divide up responsibilities, and that's all anybody wanted to talk about.

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And I was like, "You know, people are like really interested in how families make it work." Um, so I actually experimented the first time with, I made my husband do it.

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Um, to, so we did the first one, 'cause I wanted to see if it would work and if it was interesting. And originally I was gonna do it for two days, like a weekend and a, uh- It's already, I mean, I've read that one.

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They are- It's very long and in-depth... so long. [laughs] So, so once I got one, one day down, I was like, okay, two days is too much. It's too, it's too time-consuming on both the couple and, um, the reader.

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So we cut it down to one day. I cut it down to one day. Um, and they're really interesting, and I actually introduced a, um, a couple without kids. It was the last one of the year. I'm not doing another one.

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Uh, which I have actually kind of mixed feelings on, because I don't think it hits quite the same way as, uh, family. So it's- Yeah, yeah, the consequences are like a little lower. Oh, they're a lot lower.

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I'm like, "You have so much time. You have no idea [laughs] how much time you have." [laughs] Um, so that series has been really fun to do.

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And then I was just looking for, um, like a third franchise that I could slot in that would be a little bit easier to do, that might be kind of shareable, that would give me an opportunity to like profile women that I really like and admire and respect.

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And so that's how In Her Purse came about. Nice. Um, I'm curious more about just like content franchises generally. You know, as somebody who's been an editor- Sure...

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for like a decade and been having to come up with them. Um, I'm curious both personally, 'cause I'm trying to kind of come up with some new ideas- Yeah...

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for, for next year, and I'm sure listeners, readers of the newsletter would also be curious. So how do you go about, like, coming up with a, a new successful content franchise? Yeah. I don't know.

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I just love franch- like, I just, I don't know. I, it's a good question, how you, like, come up with them. Um, I, I like highly recommend them.

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They relieve a lot of the pressure of having to come up with stories again and again and again, um, once you can figure out what it is. And I don't think that they have to be super, like, fancy or crazy.

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I think that the more simple, the better.

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Um, I'll say that, you know, people really like to do, like, editors and journalists really like to do, like, Q and As with people, but I don't always think that those do the best.

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Sorry, this is a Q and A [laughs] series. Well, but then I turn it into a, into an, an essay, so- Yeah... that's the difference. It's different. Um,

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because I think they think that they will be easy, but I'm not sure that there's always like good reader engagement there. So I think when you're thinking about franchises, it's better to, um,

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think about articles that are easily repeatable. Um, awesome if you can bring in some sort of like user-generated content. I'm a big fan of that. Um, though that isn't always easy. Um, but I think that- So wait, wait.

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Yeah. I'll jump in for a second. So one,

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when I was starting to do Creator Spotlight a year ago, like a kind of phrase that I came up with as a mantra, which I think describes a bit what you're talking about here, is just being consistent but not predictable.

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Yeah. So like you want it to be consistent both for, for you, the person producing it, so you know the motions you have to go through. Yeah.

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You want it to be consistent so readers, viewers, listeners know what to expect. Right. There's like that, and that'll keep them coming back.

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But you want it not to be predictable, because you want them to like, you want them to know the kind of thing- Yes...

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they're probably gonna learn each time or like take away from it, but you don't want, you want it to like always be different. That's why it's like it's good for you to throw in a couple with no kids. Yes.

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Um, maybe you don't do it again, but like- Right... then that's less predictable. And then the week after when it's back to a couple with kids, like it can be, you know, a little more similar to one that's come before.

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Yes. Exactly. Exactly. I think you have to make sure that you don't get too repetitive, and I try really hard with Home Economics.

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Like, I, like am sitting on several entries and I just sort of, I take a hard look every time. Like, okay, have we been in this state? Have we had this age? Like, if we had this salary, we had this job.

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I used to joke when I ran Money Diaries that you'd look at, um, marketing managers, and they all made $75,000.

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And it didn't matter if they were in like Chicago or Dallas or San Francisco, like they all did the exact same thing. It was wild. I'd be like, "No more market-We're marketing managers.

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Like, they all go to SoulCycle and get their green juices and, like, it's just not interesting. Yeah. That's the hardest thing with this newsletter too, is, like, finding...

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This newsletter podcast, finding people who are, like, so different. Like, their niche- Yeah... is different. Like, who they are is different. Where, where they're... All those things. Mm-hmm.

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The, the hardest part is, like, spending all the time doing that, and then, like, you know, emailing people, and then if they don't reply and it's like- Yeah...

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and then you just kind of have to do two people that are kind of similar in a row or something. Anyways, um- Yeah... the people listening don't need to, to know that. [laughs] A bit of inside baseball. Um- Yeah...

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so the last public number I saw about the size of The Purse's email list was 12,000. Mm-hmm. Is that still accurate? That's accurate. Nice. Um, how have you, how have you grown that audience?

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Where do these people come from? Who are they? It's still mostly organic. Um, a lot... It, it's been a huge... Sub- Substack has just been an incredibly supportive platform. Um, I have a wonderful, um, writer.

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Um, what is she called? I don't know what her title is. Um, you know, they have, like, a team of, like, writer support staff essentially that, like, help you. How interesting. I didn't know about this.

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Um, uh, her name's Bailey Dunn, and I just, I just adore her.

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Like, it's just this, like, lovely mutual appreciation society and, like, whenever I need a pep talk, I can just call up Bailey, and she'll just tell me how wonderful I am, which is... Everyone needs a person like that.

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Um, and they did an amazing job in the beginning of spotlighting The Purse a few times that really helped drive a ton of new subscribers, and then it's just been, like, kind of a steady, um, drumbeat of, um,

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support from, you know, other newsletters driving subscribers, subscribers coming in from the app, and then, like, slowly as we grow, bringing them in from other places. Um, it's always exciting to see, like, Google.

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It's like, [gasps] what did you Google to get here? Um, but I'm happy they did. So how about the paid offering? So a little, a little context first for the, for the listeners.

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Um, you turned it on around late March- Mm-hmm... early April 2023, and as far as I know, it includes an extra edition of Home Economics- Mm-hmm... every month. Yeah. Um, entry in a monthly book and swag giveaway. Yeah.

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Early access to tickets for events, uh, and then access of course to the full archive of posts.

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Um, so tell me about the decision to turn that on, and then also you, I think you waited a little bit before you actually added a paywall. Yes. Yes.

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I, I have really struggled with paid subscriptions, and it's still something that I feel weird about. For one thing, the work that I'm doing, I want as many people to have access to, right? Like, I really...

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Like, we're trying to have open and honest conversations about money. Like, as many people need to be reading these articles as they can.

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Uh, it's also hard to kind of lose that old, like, Refinery29, CNBC, just, like, it's already free, so, like... It, it's hard to, for me to break that mindset.

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I think that's interesting what you were talking about with Garbage Day about, like, you know, that he had... How much would people pay for this is something that I personally struggle with a lot. Um,

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so for a while we were doing it just, like, you know, like a NPR-type thing, reader-supported, like, you like me, support me type of thing. Um, which had, like, m- mixed results to be frank, and that's fine.

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Like, you know, there are a lot of causes that people want to support. Um, so I added the second Home Economics over the summer to see if that would help. It, it does to a certain extent.

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Like, when we publish the paid once a month, we see kind of a spike in people who sign up for, for paid subscriptions. Um,

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but it's very much a work in progress, and I think that's one of my biggest concerns sort of, like, with where the newsletter industry goes from here.

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Individual creators like me, to use your word, to use your version of creator, um, is, like, eventually people are gonna hit peak of how much they're willing to subscribe for, and it's, it's tough when you're, when there are so many great publications out there.

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Like, how do you choose? That is hard. I mean, I currently... I don't know if I currently subscribe to any, like, solo creator newsletters. Yeah. I do subscribe to 404 Media and Hellgate- Mm-hmm...

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you know, two worker-owned publications- Yeah... because, like, I really, I wanna support their work, and that's, like... I don't, I don't know. Uh, maybe, may- maybe it's 'cause I interviewed them recently on- Yeah...

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on the other podcast, and so that was... I, I felt a need to do that. Yeah. But I think it's because it's this group and because it's this, like, larger journalism thing.

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I think, like, you know, subscription fatigue, whatever. I've talked to people who say yes, it's a thing. Others who say it's not. Um, I think that there'll be more bundling, right? Yeah.

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Like, it's always the, it's the continuous cycle of bundling and unbundling. Yeah.

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And, like, I think maybe, you know, there's a world in which, like, you end up merging with somebody doing something similar to you, and then- Yeah... now you have more, you know, more mouths to feed, but also- Right...

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more resources to build a real business. Yeah. Um, anyways, the, the events. I know the events are another thing. Mm-hmm. You had your inaugural event in October. It was ticketed.

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It was sponsored by Aster, which is a financial hea- health program. Um, how did that go? It was wonderful. We had so much fun. We had about 60 women at a bar in Brooklyn.

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Um, and we had been talking a lot about, like, how do we make this something that people

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feel like they're getting a lot out of it, that they're not thrown into, uh, a space where, like, they have to mingle with each other and they don't know.

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Um, so we broke into smaller groups, uh, based around different topics and held these sort of, like, intimate conversations about, um, all kinds of things.

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We talked about, uh, negotiating and wealth building and new parenthood.

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Um, and it was really fun, and, um, it was exciting afterwards because I could see people connecting on LinkedIn and, like, liking each other's events and activities on LinkedIn, and it was like, oh, this actually, like, this is a good, um, way of connecting and, like, kind of deeper- How long did it take to, to put together and plan?But we did it fast.

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I think we did it in about three weeks. [laughs] Um, did you learn anything about, like, what, what to double down on and what not to do for the next time you do an event? Yeah. That's a good question. Um,

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I w- I was, like, really, like, very happy with the way it turned out. Um, and so we're, we are trying to figure out, like, how we franch- how I franchise Article House newsletters.

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Like, can we franchise this as something that we do more regularly with different topics? Um, you know, I think we're always thinking about, like, how do we reach more people?

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How do we make sure everyone we want to know about it knows about it? Like, do we team up with other newsletters and their audiences to bring in, like, different people so that it feels fresh and interesting?

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Um, you know, we're always looking for ways to, just [laughs] to save and make money at the same time, so I think that those were two big takeaways. Um, there's definitely a way to, to franchise that, I think. Yeah.

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Um, do you have, do you have the next event planned? Or, like, how many you're gonna do in 2025 or anything like that? We wanna do quite a few in 2025.

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We followed that one up fairly quickly with a smaller just, like, mix-and-mingle at a local clothing store called Argent, in SoHo, and that was also really nice.

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So I think we're gonna try to figure out how to kind of ping-pong back and forth between more programmed and more casual.

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Um, I feel like it's cliché 'cause everyone talks about community these days, but Erica and I really are very focused on community, and I think that's one of the things that makes The Purse so special is that, you know, people really comment and feel like they're part of something.

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Um, and so we'd love to, like, make that happen more and more, um, in real life. And we've also been talking about, like, you know, do we go to other cities, something in Boston or LA or DC?

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Hopefully those are all things that'll happen in the year. Probably you do. [laughs] Yes, we do. We do want to go to all those places. [laughs] Mm-hmm. Um, so I wanna talk about your finances for a second.

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[laughs] You, you know, you don't, you can only... You only have to say as much as- Yeah... as, as you feel comfortable saying. I know that some of the stuff you do share, but it's often behind the paywall. Yeah.

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[laughs] Um, first, how much does it cost roughly to run The Purse each month? And I'm sure that... I don't know if that's increased or- Uh... stayed the same or whatever.

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That's a really good question, [laughs] and it's probably something that I should, like, know more carefully. We're, we're breaking even. Like, we're not... N- neither Erica and I are drawing salaries right now.

253
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Um, but we make enough in paid subscriptions to be able to pay for things like, I mean, we fe- I feed each o- I feed us lunch once a week.

254
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[laughs] You know, we, we co-work in person, and I put lunch on the company credit card, uh, which feels so funny. Uh, and then we pay for small amounts of, um, boosting posts on social.

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We've been experimenting with Reddit ads, and with ads in other newsletters, so that's been something we've been experimenting with. And then, you know, we do the giveaways, so there's, there's nominal cost with that.

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So we're not, we're not getting rich yet, but we're also, uh, not going into debt, which is great. That's good. That's good.

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Um, and I know you've talked plenty a- in your own newsletter about how, like, your husband has a good job and health insurance- Yes... and stuff and allows you to- Yes, allows me- Yeah... to do this.

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And we saved for many, many years in our youth, so that we feel a little bit more comfortable now.

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I was telling somebody the other day, I also think that I'm, like, at the perfect point in parenthood, 'cause my son is in school full-time, so we don't have the same childcare costs we had when he was small.

260
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So if I was paying $35,000 a year for daycare, this would be a whole different kind of That's so expensive. I know. That's an... Is that just, like, the normal price in Brooklyn? Yeah, I think so. It's not cheap.

261
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Instead of Chris.

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[laughs] Um, I imagine when Erica came in, I know, I think in the article when you introduce that she's come in to join you, you know, she started, like, writing up these projections and spreadsheets- Yeah...

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or whatever. Um, can you...

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You don't have to, you know, get so granular, but have you done any, like, plannings to, like, this is what it would look like if this was, like, a full-time salary, and this is what we need to get here?

265
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Can you share, like, any of that, like, you know, hopes and dreams and scaffolding? Yeah.

266
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You know, it's interesting 'cause it's, like, always changing, and I think both of us, like, the forecast is always changing, and we're,

267
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we are trying very hard right now to figure out how to make it sustainable, um, for both of us. Just like emotionally, financially, um, mentally, like, how do we make this work?

268
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Um, and both of us come from digital media startup backgrounds, so, like, it... I'm just so not interested in growth for growth's sake. It's really important to me that that's not what we're doing.

269
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That said, like, it's become very clear in the last six months, like, we have to grow a lot in order to, like, make real money. And so our focus had been on lots of different things.

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I think, you know, the reason I adore Erica is that she has a lot of ideas, and I have a lot of ideas, and it's, like, really fun to have a lot of ideas.

271
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But then you have to go and do the ideas, and we're good at- You have to say no to a lot of them too... you have to say no to a lot of them. Yeah, you have to say no too. And, um,

272
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you also have to, like, begin to understand, like, okay, like, what ideas are gonna [laughs] make us money, and what ideas need to go on the back burner?

273
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And so we've done a lot of, like, shifting and rethinking and reprioritizing, and our focus for the next six months is really just gonna be purely on growth.

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Like, how do we get to 50,000 subscribers, and, like, what does that take? And is that increasing the amount that we send in the newsletter? Which is, yes, probably.

275
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Um, and so that's something we're going to roll out in 2025. And then it's also, like, do we just need to be everywhere all the time? And the answer to that is yes, probably. So, like, how do we do that?

276
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Um, but that also allows us to say, okay, so, like, yes, brand sponsorships would be great. Like, we would like brand sponsorships.

277
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But us thinking about business development is probably not the best use of time right now. Yeah. Um, so this kind of ties into the growth bit. Do you have any opinions on the newsletter as a format?

278
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Because your history is more in, like, you know, websites and, like, things that you consume on the website. How do you feel about the newsletter as a format? Yeah.

279
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I have very complicated feelings about the newsletter as a format.And The Purse as, like, the thing that, the idea that I was percolating when I was still at Fortune was never intended to entirely be a newsletter.

280
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It was always meant to be more than that. Um, I think it's very easy to sort of fall into the newsletter trap because it's an easy growth mechanism right now. Like, it's just, it's an easy way to grow.

281
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It's an easy way to find an audience, especially on a platform like Substack, which is just encouraging that.

282
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Um, so we have a website that I do not update enough [laughs] and I do see that as sort of a place to experiment with new ideas, to work on an affiliate program that we would like to roll out at some point, um, and to do, like, smaller things.

283
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And I don't... While I, like, really love the people that I work with at Substack, I don't see us always necessarily being beholden to them, I guess is the word that I'm looking for.

284
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Like, I want to be, I want The Purse to feel bigger than just a newsletter eventually. That's, that's something interesting. I, a- again, I think this was in the post when you announced Erica had joined you.

285
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You were like, "We're kind of at The Purse 1.5, and we're making our big plans for The Purse 2.0 2025."

286
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Um, if there are like, I don't know, not to retread everything we've already talked about, but if there's like three things that would define The Purse 2.0, what would they be?

287
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I mean, I think the biggest thing is, is we are look...

288
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Like, it's interesting you were talking about bundling earlier, but I think one of our goals is to figure out how we bring in more voices so that The Purse is more than just me and what I'm doing.

289
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We're gonna begin to experiment with that in January with some, with an additional send of the newsletter and some new voices that we're bringing in, which I'm really excited about. Um,

290
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and then the events that we rolled out in the fall was another big piece of it.

291
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And then the third thing is we talked a little bit about community, and so, like, how do we make that something that's happening outside of the comments section, both in real life and in a different format.

292
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And we started just this week, um, an ambassadors program, which we're hoping to use as a growth tool and a community tool. We have, um, about 30 women who've signed up for it so far. Um, we're, you know...

293
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[laughs] And so much of this at this point is just like, "Let's try this," and, "Let's try that," and some of it works, and some of it doesn't. That's the entrepreneurial- Yes... instinct. Yes.

294
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I don't always ask this question of people, 'cause I used to always ask everybody- Yeah... but then I, I started getting a lot of... Or I, I stopped getting so many answers that were actually so compelling. Mm.

295
00:45:14.316 --> 00:45:22.616
Uh, but I think this is something you think about. How do you think about your responsibility to your audience? What is that responsibility? Oh, man, I do think about that a lot. Um,

296
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I, I think about that a lot because I think that especially writing about money, I think that I have to be...

297
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I walk a very fine line about how much I share about myself and how much I share about my finances, and that's the nice thing about my husband being the copy editor [laughs] is he reads everything, and he'll be like, "You can't.

298
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You can't actually say that." Um, and, uh, my mother-in-law reads it, too, so, [laughs] so I feel like, okay, it's like, okay, how much do I want Deb to know about this? Um-

299
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That's the barometer, the mother-in-law-o-meter? That's the barometer, yeah. Like, [laughs] 'cause Deb's gonna text me about what I've written. But then also, like, I think that

300
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there's so much mistrust with the press right now, and I think it goes back to a little bit of what we were talking about with, like, creators and influencers and journalists and, like, paywalls, and it's so complicated, and, like, it's such a mess.

301
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And I think from a consumer who's not

302
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in the industry, it's really hard to understand, like, what's going on and, like, what's what and who's who and why do some people charge and why do other people not, and, like, when is their affiliate involved and when isn't it, and who's getting comped this and who's getting comped that.

303
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And I think that for me, transparency is really important so that people understand how I make my money, why I make the money, why I make the decisions I do, um, so that they can feel good about what they're consuming

304
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and that they can trust that I have, that, that I'm thinking about them as I'm writing these things. Yeah.

305
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This, um, this reminds me of, uh, I think a day or two ago, some story came out in New York Mag, and it was about allegations of sexual assault. Uh, Brian Jordan Alvarez, you know, The English Teacher show.

306
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But not about the article itself, but on Twitter, uh, the writer, Alex Young, who wrote it, had posted it, and then there's this reply like, "Why would you put this behind a paywall?" And it's this really long...

307
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I read it. It's a really long, really well-reported- Yeah... piece that obviously took a lot of time, a lot of people, fact-checking, et cetera. Um, and I should say, like, I found a way around the paywall.

308
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[laughs] You know, I, I, I know how to do that. Yeah. Um, and it's like, like, a couple people commenting though, like, "It's insane that you would put this behind a paywall."

309
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And I was kinda like, well, one, like, is that just on principle- Yeah... or do you not know how to find a way to read it? Um- Yeah... but I, that's kinda what I'm thinking about there, where it's like, like, of course.

310
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That took so much to produce. Like d- Of course... do you want this to be ad fu- people don't understand that, like, it costs money to produce things. Yeah.

311
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And this goes back to the content thing, is like content flattens, and content is free, right? Yeah. Content flattens, and content is free. And- Yeah...

312
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and so much good journalism was free for so long and was subsidized by ads and by social media, and, um, you know, like you were talking about toothpaste earlier, like that too [laughs] is way out.

313
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So, you know, it's like, are we retraining people?And I do think that there's a little bit of, like, guilt that comes along with, like, asking for pay.

314
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You know, like, are you gonna [laughs] are you gonna be a good person who supports me? It's like, oh, it's terrible. So I, I don't know where we go from here. I don't know how we fix the problem.

315
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I think there are a lot of smart people, hopefully me included, that are trying to figure that out. I, I think, um, I mean, another, another toothpaste problem here is, like,

316
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that it's not just about, like, oh, like, well, there's two models. W- more than two, but, you know, like advertising versus- Yeah... subscribe, paid subscribers- Yeah... or how you pay for media. But it's not just that.

317
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Like, I, one thing when I was reading that content book that I kind of for- had forgotten about that I, like, take for granted, um, I mean, I'm, I'm 30 too, so, like, by the time I was, like, 10 when I was on the Internet, it's like user-generated content on YouTube and stuff is just out there for free.

318
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Yeah. And it's normal to me. Um, but, uh, this idea that, like, user-generated content and easy access to it is still a new concept, which, like, I, I keep trying to, like, remind myself that every day. So new. Recently.

319
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So new. And, like, that's part of the problem that, like, erodes all of this and erodes the expectation of, like, content being worth something and, like, content taking time to produce.

320
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It's like, and that's why, like, I mean, the platform, platforms have power, right? Like, that's why- Yeah... Instagram is so rich is because it's like they have people on there just producing stuff for free. Yes.

321
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And, and TikTok too, YouTube, some people are making, like, the half- Yeah... the revenue share, 50%, it varies a little bit per platform.

322
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Um, but 50% ad share, and it's like, like that is what makes this hard is because, like, there will always be such a big supply of people making content for free.

323
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I've spoken to a couple people who work for or run, like, influencer or creator or whatever agencies recently. Yeah. And I asked them, I was like, "Is your client the brand or the in- or the talent?"

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They're like, "It's, it's the brand." It's the brand. Because the talent is disposable, and that's, like, what this all is, is, like, it's just created such a supply of people willing to make stuff- Yeah...

325
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that it, like, really dilutes the power of the people who spend a lot of time making stuff to get, you know, fair compensation. Yeah. And it's so weird because everybody sort of thinks they're an influencer.

326
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So, like, a story idea that we sort of played around with for a long time at Fortune, I don't think we ever pulled it off, but it was like it's really weird how social media has turned us all into, like,

327
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the way we talk about things and the way we photograph things, and it's like everybody, like, we're always selling.

328
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And, you know, before I had, before I launched the purse, I was getting really grumpy about Instagram because it's like, oh, my God. Like,

329
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they, like, I create content for them for free, and now I still do with the hope that, like, it, you know, sends readers back to the newsletter. You have to or else somebody else is, and then they'll take that attention.

330
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Yes. So, you know, I think it, it's, it's a struggle. And I do firmly believe that people still really like to read interesting articles and, like, engage with quality content. And it's a hill I will die on probably.

331
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Um- Hope you don't die. [laughs] Hopefully not. Uh, maybe. It might kill me.

332
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Um, and I've always believed in that, and, like, I've always been really lucky to be successful in, like, creating things that I think are really high quality but have also generated a lot of interest and readers.

333
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And so I will continue kind of chipping away at that, um, in hopes that, you know, I'm able to continue to grow an audience and build a business and, yeah, make it work. You can, you can only hope. Yeah.

334
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Um, uh, just a couple more questions. Sure. Uh, one, I wanna go back to the Entrepreneurial Journalism Creators program. Yeah. So you're the second person I've spoken to- Oh, nice... who did that.

335
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Uh, I spoke- Who else did you talk to? Yeah. Uh, this woman who was... So you were part of the eighth, the seventh cohort, I think. I think so. I talked to somebody who was part of the fourth cohort.

336
00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:40.620
Her name was Umbreen Ali. Oh, yeah. She runs- She was-... Central Desi. Mm-hmm. Uh, she was, like, a speaker or something. She was the program coordinator at the time. Oh, yeah. And she taught a class.

337
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So she's- She's amazing. So cool. Yeah, she's super cool. What she's doing there is, like, really going back to what I was talking about, like, local newsletters. Yeah.

338
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Like, she's building, like, really a local news product. Mm-hmm. Which I think is somewhat to her detriment. She needs to find a way to, like, monetize it more- Yeah... from when I was talking to her.

339
00:52:54.980 --> 00:52:58.380
Uh, but it's, like, another local news product, but the opposite- Yeah... of the kind of business you want.

340
00:52:58.419 --> 00:53:08.840
Anyways, um, yeah, I just really liked talking to her about it, and I'm curious, uh, I don't know, anything else you have to say about it, or, like, other interesting people there who are doing interesting projects you've been keeping track on?

341
00:53:09.140 --> 00:53:16.680
So many interesting... I, like, I, I highly recommend it. It was one of the m- the best programs I've ever done. Um, I got so much out of it.

342
00:53:17.220 --> 00:53:28.340
Um, if people are, like, trying to figure out a next move, I think this is a really nice place to go and incubate. Um, I would say there's a couple projects that I think are really interesting, um,

343
00:53:29.700 --> 00:53:45.080
uh, from before my cohort, Hannah Raskin, who runs, um, Southern, uh, what's it called? It's a series of newsletters about, uh, cooking in the South, um, that she does. It's local journalism meets food journalism.

344
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It's very cool. She's had a lot of suc- success with it. She actually- The Food Section. It's the- I just looked it up. It's called The Food Section. Yeah. Yeah.

345
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Um, locally, um, there's this really cool group of journalists who launched a newsletter called The New York Groove. Um, they, um, the, it's just local journalism.

346
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Just, I mean, I, I will read anything about New York City [laughs] like forever.

347
00:54:10.300 --> 00:54:20.820
I will read it, and since our, you know, paper of record, The New York Times, doesn't really find it interesting to cover New York City anymore, uh [laughs] That's why I pay for Hell Gate. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

348
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:34.500
Um, so I think they're very cool, and they do cool things. Um, so those are the two big ones that stood out from that time. Nice. Um, last thing, some tactical advice maybe for the listeners and readers.

349
00:54:34.620 --> 00:54:40.110
Um, I'm curious again about that point of, like, so editorially and planning- Yeah...

350
00:54:40.120 --> 00:54:55.446
like, turning a personal blog/column type newsletter into a more business-mindedIntentional publication Yeah Like on the editorial tactical level, what advice would you give? I think you just have to sit down,

351
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um, like an editor and a strategist and figure out like what are your goals for it, and like what are those content types that you wanna go back to again and again.

352
00:55:05.036 --> 00:55:17.336
And it doesn't necessarily even have to be a franchise, but like a real editorial calendar. Um, it, it never hurts to like look at what was successful and figure out how can you, not repeat it, but like

353
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pick a piece out of it and like draw on that. What was the thing that worked? What was the thing that worked? Spin it up. Yeah, and how do you spin it?

354
00:55:25.296 --> 00:55:38.896
Um, because, you know, the, the good and the bad of newsletters is they really can only be so long before they get too long and Google cuts you off. Um, [laughs] which has happened to me many times.

355
00:55:38.926 --> 00:55:48.466
Uh- I used to go like up to 3,000 words, and now I have a pretty strict, for the most part, 2,000-word limit on the whole thing. Yeah, 2,500 is my like, "Okay, Lindsay, you need to walk this back.

356
00:55:48.996 --> 00:56:00.016
Where, where, where do you start cutting sentences?" So I think that just like a real editorial plan. And also you have to take yourself seriously. Like, like, there is,

357
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there's a stigma around women writing about themselves, which just like goes back to like the mommy blogger days, and I think that there are probably plenty of people out there who think that I'm just like mommy blogger 2.0, and to an extent, great, I will take that.

358
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Like, some of the writers who have had the most impact in my life were categorized as mommy bloggers, and they were incredible- Well, that's also like-... writers...

359
00:56:23.846 --> 00:56:32.636
I f- mommy bloggers are kind of like the prototypical creator- Yeah... honestly. Exactly. Exactly. Taylor Lorenz does a really great job covering them in her book. That's where I got that.

360
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I really, I just, it meant so much to me that she did that, um, 'cause I felt like it really gave them a lot of credit for the work that they did.

361
00:56:41.736 --> 00:56:51.686
Um, so I think it's just taking yourself seriously, which is [laughs] the, the hardest thing in the whole world. And I- And which is why having like a part- a business partner- Yes... helps because that- Yes...

362
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gives you, it allows you to take yourself seriously. It allows you to take yourself seriously, and like give myself a real title, and like I said, have a Slack channel.

363
00:56:58.936 --> 00:57:05.616
And there's nothing like a Slack channel and a real email that like makes you feel legitimate. A company card. We're about to get... Yeah, we're actually [laughs] gonna get...

364
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We're just setting up our bank account, which is really exciting. Like, it's all happening. Nice. Um, I ca- I think we'll stop it there. Okay. Where should people go to read The Purse?

365
00:57:14.396 --> 00:57:30.096
Um, you can find The Purse [laughs] on Substack. Very nice. It's just thepurse.substack.com. thepurse.substack.com. All right, thank you for joining us. Thank you. And listeners, I will see you next week. [outro music]