WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:08.620 You've been doing social media work for around a decade. What is social listening? A lot of people are like, "Jasmine, I have all this data, engagement, shares. I don't know what to do with it." 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:18.220 And when I go in and I talk to people and I educate them, they're like, "Whoa." It's the reading between the lines, but it's also the drawing of the map, presenting all that, the story of the data. I like data. 3 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:29.330 My background is in strategy, and social listening seems to be a blend of the two, where I'm getting to tell a story with the numbers. Some call her the socialista, correct? Yes. Yes. 4 00:00:29.780 --> 00:00:35.900 [upbeat music] Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast. Today, we're speaking with Jasmine Griffith. 5 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:53.440 She's been working in social media for around a decade, commands a combined TikTok and Instagram following of 340,000, add another 20,000 LinkedIn followers on top of that, uh, and is the founder of a social listening agency called Que Lo Que, where she's worked with clients like Sony, Fenty, and Amazon. 6 00:00:53.960 --> 00:01:03.180 Jasmine, thank you for coming on. Hello, hello. I have 340K of combined. I was like, "Oh, that's a nice little number." [laughs] You're like, "Where did they come from?" [laughs] I was like, "That's nice." But hello. 7 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:06.820 Thank you, thank you for having me. Yes, of course. Um, okay. 8 00:01:06.860 --> 00:01:18.940 We were just talking a bit about this before we started recording, but social listening, I think is not a term that's ever come up on the 50 some however many episodes of this show- Uh-huh... we've done. 9 00:01:19.720 --> 00:01:27.580 What is social listening? Oh, that is such a good question. Um, basically, social listening is exactly what it sounds like. 10 00:01:27.660 --> 00:01:35.670 It's listening to social media, but if we wanna dive a little bit deeper into that, it's really like diving into the digital landscape- Mm... 11 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:46.430 looking at your comments, reading into private communities, scrolling on your feed, and really diving into what are people saying about you- Mm... 12 00:01:46.500 --> 00:02:05.060 about your brand, about the industry, and then taking what you're hearing and kind of putting it into a story to be able to give that to a brand or an individual and saying, "Hey, we've been seeing X, Y, and Z of conversation happening online, and we think you have opportunity to do X." 13 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:15.520 Um, why social listening works is because a lot of the time people use it for crisis. Mm. They use it to kind of lurk and to sneak into other, like, competitors. 14 00:02:16.100 --> 00:02:21.960 Um, also, they use it if they want to develop a new product and they say, "Hey, what is something that people are really struggling with? 15 00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:32.210 What is a product that we can kind of come out with to solve a problem that they're having?" So social listening is a lot. You can do a lot with it, but ultimately is what it means. It's listening- Yeah... 16 00:02:32.220 --> 00:02:41.130 you know, to the landscape and figuring out how to use what people are saying to your benefit. How did you get into, like, this as a specific subset of social media work? 17 00:02:41.220 --> 00:02:49.690 Because you've been doing social media work for professionally for around a decade. Um, just looking at your LinkedIn, some of the earlier roles are more like social strategist, that kind of thing. Yeah. 18 00:02:49.740 --> 00:03:01.340 How did you end up niching down into this specifically? That's a good question. I don't even know. Um, the [laughs] reason... [laughs] I think social listening right now is, like... It's a, it's a hot buzzword. 19 00:03:01.420 --> 00:03:14.880 Like, you'll hear social listening and social intelligence, but I think people started really understanding and w- start wanting, you know, social listening as a role around 2020, a little bit after that, maybe 2021, right when TikTok kind of came out. 20 00:03:15.250 --> 00:03:27.220 Um- Yeah... because this is when you started seeing a lot of, like, these weird communities, BookTok, MomTok, PickleTok, right? [laughs] And so people really wanted to understand, like- SourdoughTok... what's going on. 21 00:03:27.380 --> 00:03:37.740 Yeah. [laughs] Like, you know, there were so many things going on, and so some of the roles that I had, I was kind of already doing, like, social analytics. Um, and then it was kind of like, "Hey, Jasmine..." 22 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:43.620 I ended up getting a contract for, like, Google Pay, and the title was social listening- Mm-hmm... um, a social listening analyst. 23 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:48.460 Um, and they were like, "Hey, we really just wanna understand, like, what the conversation around Google Pay is online." 24 00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:57.400 But if you think about it, social listening is also kind of blended in with social analytics, so- Mm-hmm... I think I kind of drilled down a little bit to say, "Okay, I like data. 25 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:05.380 My background is in strategy, and social listening seems to be a blend of the two, where I'm like, I'm getting to tell a story with the numbers." 26 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:14.720 So that's kind of how I started to continue to find roles after that, but initially started around, um, with kind of like the Sony and Google Pay, and they really wanted to understand, like, the finance landscape. 27 00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:19.940 They wanted to read into more so of, like, what's Cash App doing? What's PayPal doing? Yeah. And how can we do something similar? 28 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:29.840 Um, and so yeah, that's how I kind of got into it, and then I kind of built into it over time and started to be into, like, trend spotting and culture mapping and listening to creators. 29 00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:38.600 It's really, like, grown into something larger than what it was when I first started. Yeah. So just to kind of now put a nail on where I'm understanding, you're understanding- Yeah... 30 00:04:38.620 --> 00:04:47.560 my understanding of social listening as you're laying it out. It, it's the reading between the lines, but it's also the drawing of the map, and then, like- Yeah... basically presenting all that, the story of the data. 31 00:04:47.640 --> 00:04:58.120 What is... Like, what are the data points that are actually important to you when you're, like, building these narratives and, and, and trying to go out and draw the map? Like, what metrics... What are you measuring? 32 00:04:58.780 --> 00:05:06.260 Yeah. So it's changed a lot over time. If I was to say now what metrics matter, especially when it comes to social listening, um, I would start with, like, sentiment. 33 00:05:06.700 --> 00:05:16.400 Um, I really wanna understand, what are people saying about me in a very positive way? Neutral is usually, like, blogs, media, influencers, and then also negative. 34 00:05:16.440 --> 00:05:25.100 But the really cool thing about, like, negative sentiment, and what I love about it is a lot of people think negative is just bad, and it's really not. Usually within negative, there's a problem that people are having. 35 00:05:25.380 --> 00:05:33.460 Mm. "Hey, I really hate that your bottles are plastic," or, "Why is it green?" Or, "Why do I see all this sugary stuff at the bottom of my soda?" 36 00:05:33.870 --> 00:05:41.860 So it's like, let me take this negative and try to figure out what can I solve with it. Um, also share of voice- It's problem finding problems that lead to solutions in that way. 100%. Mm. And people... 37 00:05:42.220 --> 00:05:50.310 Brands are still kind of leaning into what neg- what they can do with negative sentiment, but it's one of the things that I love to measure. Um, also share of voice, and I love this from, like, a competitor standpoint. 38 00:05:50.320 --> 00:06:02.220 We did a lot of it at Pepsi. It's really trying to understand who is killing it in the- Mm... share of voice space. Like, if, if a brand is getting so many mentions month over- month over month, let's dive into it why. 39 00:06:02.260 --> 00:06:10.868 Like-Why is Dr Pepper getting so many mentions? What are they doing? Are they doing new partner collabs? Are they working with new creators? Did they just come out with a new soda flavor? 40 00:06:10.908 --> 00:06:19.868 Like, those are some of the metrics that I love to t- dive in deep into. And then just overall, like engagements. Engagement per post, and like post shares- Mm... 41 00:06:19.898 --> 00:06:29.548 are probably the biggest thing that I love to kind of, um, measure at the moment with social listening. Post shares specifically because if somebody is sharing your content, that means they have an emotional tie to it. 42 00:06:29.608 --> 00:06:32.468 Like- Mm-hmm... I like it, cool. I'm gonna comment, great. 43 00:06:32.548 --> 00:06:39.688 But if I'm sharing it with you, this is something that I need you to see because ultimately that person's gonna share it with somebody else and et cetera, et cetera. So it's- Yeah... 44 00:06:39.718 --> 00:06:47.688 that extra step of an engagement that people don't really realize that it has a emotional tie in than any other metric. But it's some of the stuff that I like to measure, and along with it is- Sharing too. 45 00:06:47.828 --> 00:06:55.548 Like, you weren't always able to measure shares. Like, I think- No... on Instagram even, like- Yep... now if you're scrolling reels, you can, you can see that, even, even just like- 100%... per user. 46 00:06:55.828 --> 00:07:05.148 But that's only like a couple years ago that they- Yeah... they introduced that, right? Um, so- Yeah, 100%. This gets into too, like you obviously I'm sure you know the term dark social, right? 47 00:07:05.208 --> 00:07:11.248 Like, which is all the stuff where like you don't see it, where people- Yeah... it's what people are sharing in Slack, et cetera. Like- Mm-hmm... 48 00:07:11.478 --> 00:07:23.068 I, I guess, [laughs] I guess I'm still just defining social listening here, but like- Yeah... that is kind of one of the superpowers of this as a strategy- Yep... is, is attempting to map out the dark social. Yeah. 49 00:07:23.108 --> 00:07:31.958 What... That's a really cool thing about social listening and what a lot of social listening tools can't do, and why you physically kind of need a human to do it because- Mm-hmm... 50 00:07:32.028 --> 00:07:41.308 tools don't have the APIs to read into your broadcast channels or your Slack channels, or even like some of the, like subreddits and the Discord and Twitch servers. 51 00:07:41.348 --> 00:07:49.908 You physically need someone that's a part of those communities. Same thing for Facebook groups. Mm. Because nowadays people are sharing selfishly to themselves, or very privately. 52 00:07:49.988 --> 00:07:53.408 People don't wanna share out in the open anymore. People don't want their business out there, right? 53 00:07:53.828 --> 00:08:00.308 So it's really to, you know, it's really taking the time and it, it has its pros and cons 'cause you have to be a part of everything. 54 00:08:00.408 --> 00:08:08.948 Even with Substack, it's like you have to be a part of everything to, in order to read what's going on. But I feel like that's what makes me unique in a way, because ultimately I'm always on, unfortunately. 55 00:08:09.048 --> 00:08:18.088 But I get to be in a part of these communities and say, "Hey, I was just in this Slack group for marketers and this is some of the things that I'm seeing," or, "Hey, I have this broadcast channel that's all about wellness. 56 00:08:18.148 --> 00:08:24.848 Did you know that the girls are saying X, Y, and Z?" So that's the really cool thing about social listening that a lot of other tools can't do, and why you need- Yeah... 57 00:08:24.918 --> 00:08:34.208 a physical person to do that because they can kind of like decode and, and bring out some insights in these private communities, in the dark web or the dark social like you were saying. Yeah. What are, uh... 58 00:08:34.437 --> 00:08:42.318 Y- you keep mentioning tools. What are like, actually some of the specific tools? Like one, there's kinda the hard tools maybe and the soft tools. Soft tools is like you knowing what communities people- Yeah... 59 00:08:42.408 --> 00:08:49.028 are active in and you getting, finding your way into those communities and, and participating in et cetera. Yeah. What are like, um, also the hard tools though? 60 00:08:49.068 --> 00:08:57.588 Like the actual, like, I don't know, whether it's software, whatever, like how do you, [laughs] how do you do social listening- Yeah... is what I'm asking. Yeah. With what tools do you do it? 61 00:08:57.808 --> 00:09:04.768 [laughs] Let's talk tools because it's interesting, I was filming a brand partnership this morning, and I was like, it was a social listening tool, but it was like- Mm... 62 00:09:04.898 --> 00:09:13.088 an AI video social listening and this is like new. And I was like, whoa. You know? I'm like, this is like, whew, this is out of my league here. Like, this is new for me. Like, this is so cool. 63 00:09:13.148 --> 00:09:25.468 Like, it's like scanning video for specific things that are said. Correct. So for example, for a long time, it's still kind of... TikTok's API doesn't allow basically any tools to be able to go in and listen. 64 00:09:25.508 --> 00:09:34.708 Like when you think of your standard social listening tools, your Brandwatch, um, your Sprinklers, your Talkwater and Meltwater, a lot of the time you're building out queries. 65 00:09:34.768 --> 00:09:45.128 A query is I'm just putting keywords together on things that I wanna search for, and most social listening tools only allow you to listen to news media, um, Reddit and Twitter. 66 00:09:45.348 --> 00:09:49.968 Anything on Instagram, if it's not public, you cannot listen to. And then same thing for TikTok. 67 00:09:50.028 --> 00:10:01.608 Well, I've been discovering new tools like an Archive or a Pulser or a Plot where it's video social listening, where now I can type in, like today I played around with Graza. 68 00:10:01.688 --> 00:10:13.068 I was like, I wanna see, you know, what Graza has going on. Like, how are people using Graza? And I typed in Graza, and it pulled up all the videos of people- Mm... using Graza. They weren't even saying it. 69 00:10:13.108 --> 00:10:21.468 They didn't tag it, but- But just because it's such a recognizable scannable object. Correct. Yeah. It recognized the bottle, the green, and it was just so cool and so fascinating. 70 00:10:21.508 --> 00:10:28.628 So that's why I say let's talk tools because back then they didn't really have the AI to be able to do as much of the cool things that you can do now. 71 00:10:28.728 --> 00:10:34.068 So it just depends on how granular you want to get in and the type of industry that you work in and the clients that you work in. 72 00:10:34.108 --> 00:10:42.758 But social listening is usually let's build a query, and let me listen to the conversation, but let's take it a step further and now I wanna listen to comments, or now I wanna see what the video- Mm... 73 00:10:42.788 --> 00:10:44.948 you know, what's populating through video. So yeah. Okay. 74 00:10:45.008 --> 00:10:52.068 Something we were talking about a second before we got into this too is how y- you were saying like you're in, you're in this community, you're in that community, you're in this- Yeah... 75 00:10:52.088 --> 00:11:00.068 and like it is a little overwhelming. This is something that I personally also like struggle with is, you know, I spend a lot of time reading newsletters- Yeah... 76 00:11:00.108 --> 00:11:09.428 or watching YouTube videos or looking at Instagram, whatever, and like some of that is like legitimately research for my work and then some of it, you know, you quickly slide into the mindless scrolling. 77 00:11:09.448 --> 00:11:16.228 You're like, "Why am I even reading this thing?" Yeah. [laughs] Like I do not- Yeah... care. This is not serving me. Um- Yeah... 78 00:11:16.828 --> 00:11:21.827 but for you, I, I, I'm getting the impression that you have to be and are much more plugged into a lot of things. 79 00:11:22.328 --> 00:11:34.898 Uh, how do you actually build systems for yourself or like habits so you're not just like consuming all the slop at once and you're able to separate- Mm-hmm... what's worth paying attention to versus the mindless filler? 80 00:11:35.718 --> 00:11:38.628 That's a good question that I do not have an answer to- Yeah. [laughs]... if I'm gonna be honest with you. 81 00:11:39.708 --> 00:11:53.328 I, I, I will have times where I'm like mindlessly scrolling, which is why I love the save feature because a lot of the time I'm just scrolling like on LinkedIn, and I will like say, "Oh, let me stop and save this 'cause I can create a piece of content around this," or, "I think somebody needs to know this." 82 00:11:53.668 --> 00:11:58.448 But I have not come up with a system just yet, to be honest with you. I usually scroll. 83 00:11:58.528 --> 00:12:10.568 If I see something that I know I want to talk about or it's worth noting or someone needs to know, I just pull up my notes tabOn either my phone or my laptop, and I type it in, I add the link in, and I keep going back. 84 00:12:10.648 --> 00:12:19.108 Or I just go to my saved folder. I usually- Mm... like every Sunday night I'm going through my saved folders on TikTok and LinkedIn specifically, and I'm like, "Okay, I saved some stuff during the week. 85 00:12:19.148 --> 00:12:26.178 What are we gonna do with this?" That's my system- Okay... at the moment. It's not- Well, wait, but that, but that's a great system, 'cause I'm doing that too. Like I'm on- Right... 86 00:12:26.188 --> 00:12:31.628 I'm, I'm more on LinkedIn and Twitter maybe. I'm like saving stuff- Yeah... constantly. 87 00:12:31.688 --> 00:12:40.598 But you, you saying like that you go back in [laughs] and look at it every Sunday, I'm like realizing now I don't remember the last time I went to my, to my saved on- Yeah... 88 00:12:40.657 --> 00:12:48.778 on any of the platforms, where I am saving stuff constantly. No. Same. That's a feature that if any platforms are listening, we need to be able to filter through the saves. Mm-hmm. 89 00:12:48.828 --> 00:12:57.208 TikTok doesn't have it, Instagram does not have it, and LinkedIn doesn't have it. We need a way to be able to filter through the saves, because that would really be a lifesaver. Yeah. Well, that too is like... 90 00:12:57.618 --> 00:13:05.128 I, I think a lot about, about taste and I have another podcast, Tasteland, where we, we talk about- Uh-huh... like the idea of taste and the creation of it sometimes, and I think this is the thing. 91 00:13:05.168 --> 00:13:17.968 There's such an oversupply of information and the- Yeah... the, the, the ability to be decisive about what you choose not to consume is, is like a, a superpower I think more and more- Yeah... when it's so easy- Yeah... 92 00:13:17.978 --> 00:13:24.628 to just be kind of caught up in the tsunami of content. Um- Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I agree with that. I was... 93 00:13:24.668 --> 00:13:35.348 I watched this girl post the other day, and she was talking about how you basically have to curate your For You page for content that you want to see, and I was like, "That's so true," because I used to just scroll and scroll and scroll, and I didn't realize. 94 00:13:35.388 --> 00:13:39.548 I'm like, "None of this stuff really works for what I want." So now I'm very mindful in what I like. 95 00:13:39.888 --> 00:13:49.148 I'm very mindful in the things that I click and say I'm not interested, 'cause I'm truly curating my feed to be around brand strategists, sometimes like sourdough bakers are in there. 96 00:13:49.228 --> 00:13:58.908 But like I really try to curate my feed to be things that I really want to consume and not things that I shouldn't be consuming or is gonna waste my time or I know I'm gonna go down like a rabbit hole with. Yeah. 97 00:13:58.948 --> 00:14:07.788 So yeah. I, I personally too, only like, uh, six months ago or so, I started using the, the Not Interested feature a lot on my Instagram and Facebook feed- Yes. Yes... which is where I do spend a lot of time. 98 00:14:07.888 --> 00:14:17.368 Um, and I, I, I actually w- I would love to know like from Meta the feature adoption percentage on that- Yeah... 'cause I'm sure it's quite low, and people just kinda like- Yeah... 99 00:14:17.568 --> 00:14:24.227 go with the flow and, and, you know, get- Mm-hmm... just kind of get caught in these like cul-de-sacs of content- Yeah... that, that are- It's a extra step. 100 00:14:24.268 --> 00:14:33.808 People don't like to do the extra step, but like I'm starting to realize like it helps. So when I'm scrolling, it doesn't feel like it's just a whole bunch of fluff on my feed. Like it's actually valuable information. 101 00:14:34.188 --> 00:14:44.848 Mm-hmm. Um, tell me about Que Lo Que, your agency. Ooh. Uh, so you've been doing social media work for now I think about a decade. Uh, I looked- Yeah... looking on your LinkedIn, like you've got, you've got... 102 00:14:44.868 --> 00:14:53.828 You're very thorough. You've got all your stuff listed, the, the like short-term engagements, the long-term engagements. Yeah. It's like 25 things. Um- Yeah... but Que Lo Que is a little more recent in your career. 103 00:14:53.908 --> 00:15:03.848 So tell me how this comes about- Yeah... why you started it, why you picked that name specifically, which ha- which has- Yeah... has some meaning. Thank you. Yes. Um, let's talk Que Lo Que. Okay. 104 00:15:03.988 --> 00:15:13.668 So I had kind of like a freelance biz long ago. It was called La Marca Consulting, which means "the brand" in Spanish. Mm-hmm. But I never, I never... I just used it as for my, my consulting kind of company. 105 00:15:13.728 --> 00:15:22.618 It wasn't really like anything serious. And then a year and a half ago, I really started diving deep into like LinkedIn and really diving into my niche of social listening, and I'm like, "Wait. Oh, okay. 106 00:15:22.768 --> 00:15:31.568 I'm the social listening girlie," and I'm like, "Wait, this is so new. It's so fresh." Some call her the socialista. "This is who I wanna talk about it." Correct. Yes. Yes. So I was like, "Let's try it." 107 00:15:31.648 --> 00:15:38.488 I'm talking to my partner, and he was like, "You need to do something with this." And so we were noodling with names, and so I'm half Spanish, I'm ha- I'm, I'm half Black. 108 00:15:38.498 --> 00:15:46.138 Que Lo Que comes from more so the Dominican heritage, which I'm not, but I love the sound of it. I love the terminology of it being like, "What's up?" 109 00:15:46.148 --> 00:15:55.988 Because really my personality is so big and so vibrant, and so that's where the name came from. And so Que Lo Que is really just kind of like my passion project, my consulting side gig. 110 00:15:56.028 --> 00:16:01.368 It's also an agency, but I really wanna help people find out what people are saying about their brand online. 111 00:16:01.428 --> 00:16:10.588 I really wanna work with brands to tell the story behind their numbers, because a lot of people are like, "Jazmine, I have all this data. Great engagement shares. Cool. I don't know what to do with it." 112 00:16:10.628 --> 00:16:18.508 Like, what's the story? Like, and when I go in and I talk to people and I educate them on like, "This is the story. This is a new product. This is the collaboration they can do", they're like, "Whoa. 113 00:16:19.108 --> 00:16:25.268 See, I didn't know that social listening does all that." So that's exactly what Que Lo Que is, is I really wanna help people decode culture. 114 00:16:25.667 --> 00:16:32.088 I really want to help them understand the numbers, and I don't want them to be scared by data. I really want them to know like, "You're putting so much great content out there. 115 00:16:32.188 --> 00:16:39.168 Let's really dissect it so we can continue to put out great content, so you can have your consumers and fans and build that, you know, community cult fol- like following." 116 00:16:39.228 --> 00:16:47.728 So that's where kind of like Que Lo Que came from. It's still a work in progress. I'm still figuring it out day by day, but, um, I've gotten a lot of great feedback from it. Mm-hmm. 117 00:16:47.768 --> 00:16:50.198 So thanks to LinkedIn and everybody else. So yeah, that's kinda the spiel. 118 00:16:50.198 --> 00:17:01.018 Well, okay, so on LinkedIn too, specifically in your description for, for, for the agency in your experience section, you say, "We founded Que Lo Que because we saw a gap in the market, a gap for a crew that doesn't just want-" Mm-hmm. 119 00:17:01.018 --> 00:17:08.298 "... to be your strategic partner. We want to be your ride or die, your truth tellers, your partners in crime. We're here to help brands cut through the noise, create epic stuff-" Yeah "... 120 00:17:08.298 --> 00:17:15.078 and ride the wave of trends like the cool kids we are." So I think, I'm going back to this idea- Mm... of like decisiveness and taste. Like you really- Yeah... 121 00:17:15.228 --> 00:17:23.328 do portray a point of view with that, and like picking specifically Que Lo Que, which is this like very- Yeah... you know, culturally specific name. Yeah. 122 00:17:23.408 --> 00:17:29.028 Um, that is itself a way, a way of cutting through the noise I think pretty effectively. Yeah. 100%. 123 00:17:29.068 --> 00:17:37.348 You know, being Black and brown, a lot of brands are s- trying to tap into a lot of the culture, and a lot of the time they don't have anyone to decode it, and so I wanna- Yeah... be one of those. 124 00:17:37.388 --> 00:17:45.688 You know, I, I have the agency with my partner. The two saying, "I'm here." Yes. I'm here. Like, you know, I've worked in the Fortune 500 companies, and I understand the nuances. I understand the conversations. 125 00:17:45.728 --> 00:17:56.288 And so I just wanna be that person in the room that kind of clears that table and helps you have a way in into the communities that I'm a part of and everyone else is kind of enjoying as well. Mm-hmm. Um, okay. 126 00:17:56.388 --> 00:18:05.998 So going back, a, a l- a few minutes ago I mentioned the 25 different experiences listed on your LinkedIn. Yeah. Uh, you've clearly worked w- with a lot of clients and in a lot of industries. Yeah. 127 00:18:06.068 --> 00:18:16.380 I was wondering if there is a specific industry-Doing this work that you found most easy to work in- Mm-hmm... and then maybe another one most difficult to do social listening work in. 128 00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:25.720 Um, food and beverage has always been fun and easy to work in. There's just so much you can do, so many audiences, Gen Z. I spent the last two years and a- So many people talking about it. 129 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:30.680 I mean, gras is, for example- So many people... people love to talk about it. Yes. People love to eat. People love to drink, you know? 130 00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:36.520 Like, and right now, like, Gen Z-coded branding is in, which is really big with, you know, the food and beverage industries. 131 00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:46.020 And so I spent the last two years and a half working, um, at PepsiCo under Mountain Dew, which is, like, a huge company. It's so fun. They just... Baja Blast, Colt Community, Super Bowl. 132 00:18:46.040 --> 00:18:57.380 They just, they do a lot of fun things. And so, um, I would say that's my favorite industry to work in. As far as most difficult, um, finance was probably the most difficult one, um, like with my time at Google Pay. 133 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:05.830 And you can do a lot of fun stuff like Cash App is doing, but with money you have to be careful. Like, people nowadays, it's kind of like- There's a lot of legality. Yeah. 134 00:19:05.860 --> 00:19:16.780 It's kind of like, how do you make people feel confident in their money and what's going on, you know, with inflation and, and politics and tariffs? So it's a tough, tough industry to, to be in. 135 00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:27.470 But if you do it the right way, I think there's a lot of way in for, you know, to be able to tap into those younger communities. Mm-hmm. You said a second ago something about, uh, Gen Z-coded branding, and that was... 136 00:19:27.530 --> 00:19:36.920 I'm curious if there's... about the generational aspect to your work. Like, if there is... if that's something clients come for you, come to you for, where they're like, "Help us segment our audience. 137 00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:44.780 What is Gen Z saying versus what, what are Millennials saying?" And how- Yeah... how you actually accomplish that if, if people are asking for that. Yeah, 100%. 138 00:19:44.840 --> 00:19:52.980 I mean, I think it's safe to say every brand wants to talk to Gen Z, and every brand is trying to figure out, "How do we talk to Gen Z?" And so a lot of the audience I've work... 139 00:19:53.020 --> 00:20:00.490 A lot of the audience work I've done for a lot of these different brands has been that. Like, I wanna understand Gen Z. Who are they? They're lonely. They broke. They love to travel. 140 00:20:00.890 --> 00:20:06.410 You know, they're still living at home with their parents. They don't wanna go to college. They don't wanna work. They wanted their free spirits and their- They're broke, and yet the brands-... avocado toast... 141 00:20:06.410 --> 00:20:17.600 still wanna know how you sell to them. [laughs] 100%. But Gen Z, they spend, they spend money, you know? I just saw that they, they buy a $25 box of croissant cereal. They go to Erewhon and spend $40. 142 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:28.760 Coachella on a, on a, on a layaway plan. Yes, 100%. They will be at every single festival. I don't know how they get there and who they're staying with or whatever, but they will be there. So Gen Z is... 143 00:20:28.780 --> 00:20:34.860 What I love about them is they live life to the fullest, like there's no tomorrow, and they... There's always a way. They're trying to always figure out a way. 144 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:42.260 And so that's one of the main audiences that every single brand wants to tap into because- Mm-hmm... though they don't have the money, they still have a large spending power. 145 00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:51.820 I don't know how, but they always figure out a way. They're hustlers. They have trades. They're, they're trying to figure out a way in always. So, um, that's a lot of the work that I do, is those audiences specifically. 146 00:20:51.920 --> 00:21:01.300 Not a lot of Millennials. Every now and then some Boomers because they do... They are unique in their own way. They've been... You know, you see them a lot in, like, skincare and wellness and fashion. 147 00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:11.740 Um, but mostly everything is around Gen Z. Hey, if you're enjoying this conversation, consider subscribing to the podcast. We release a new episode every Tuesday. All right. Back to the show. 148 00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:22.930 I wanna move from talking about social listening and brands to social listening and creators, and maybe then- Yes... get into your own life as a creator. Uh, but I think... Like, when I think of 149 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:33.340 creators practicing social listening- Yeah... it's, it's almost a thing too where it's like y- you're seeing... You're looking for what is... Let's say, let's say you're, you're making Instagram reels or TikToks- Yeah... 150 00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:41.420 and so it's, it's the short form video and you're looking for what's working, and then you're looking for, like, here's the thing that I know is currently... Like, the wave has not yet crested. 151 00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:51.350 Like, it's still coming up. Yeah. And I can put my spin on this, and I, and I can identify, like, the, the traits of, like, this video is working because of this precise timing, this song, like, this lighting. 152 00:21:51.460 --> 00:21:59.230 Whatever it is, you know, all the, all the- Yeah... many details that you have to be able to break down to be successful. Um, yeah. I, I, I guess I'm asking [laughs] you- Yeah... 153 00:21:59.230 --> 00:22:08.760 how, how is, how is social listening something that creators can apply to, to, to further their own content? Not for, like, large brands to apply, but for creators- Yeah... specifically. 154 00:22:08.860 --> 00:22:19.920 Um, I think the comment section is a goldmine, especially for creators. Because a lot of the time... Like, for example, my content started off because I went through a really, really bad breakup. I posted about it. 155 00:22:20.060 --> 00:22:27.679 I shared my experience. I was crying on TikTok. Beautiful stuff, you know? I w- I just, I- People love that... people love, people love a sad girl, you know? And so I wish... 156 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:36.240 You know, I was guiding women through the journey of, like, this is my breakup and this is what life looks like after my breakup. Well, many years later, you know, I, I have a healthy relationship. 157 00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:41.380 I'm in a new, you know, I'm in a new relationship. [laughs] You can't make content like that anymore. [laughs] I cannot. I cannot. 158 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:53.500 [laughs] So I shifted my content from being the motivational, inspirational going through a breakup to I really wanna share my day-to-day life. Like, I am a creator. I'm running a business. 159 00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:04.160 I have a corporate nine-to-five job. And so I've pivoted my content a lot. And so some of it was not working. People were not, like... They were not getting jiggy with it. They were like, "No, Jasmine. 160 00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:11.300 We, we want the old stuff." Yeah. But then I started real- Bring back the tears. Right. [laughs] But then I started looking at my comment section. I started doing polls. 161 00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:20.560 I started being more interactive in my broadcast channel, and I was like, okay, there is an intersection here. And so now I talk about what is it like being a woman in her 30s, your figuring out area. 162 00:23:20.900 --> 00:23:28.100 Y- you're figuring out era. Yeah. You know, what is it like to work in this industry? How can I be an entrepreneur? And I'm like, wait, this content is working. 163 00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:36.200 And so s- what I want to say is for a lot of creators, if you take the time to actually talk to your community, and when they talk to you back and you listen and they... 164 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:43.950 you take their feedback, that's how you know what content is working and when it's not working. And it's also just l- you know, actually talking back to them in their, in your comments- Yeah... 165 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:51.140 looking at your broadcast channels. If you're doing a poll on your story like, "Hey, sis. What kind of content do you wanna see more of?" Or, "What should I do for my YouTube blog this week?" 166 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:57.360 It's actually, like, using that. A lot of people don't realize, like, something as simple as that is social listening. Mm-hmm. And the most... 167 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:03.350 I mean, and the most engaged people are the ones who are gonna reply, and they're the, they're the ones who are most invested in your content. Um, so was Tik- 100%. 168 00:24:03.380 --> 00:24:17.424 Is TikTok then, like, where you really began creating content as a creator in earnest?It's interesting because I spend majority of my time on Instagram and LinkedIn, um, but I've been trying to do... 169 00:24:17.484 --> 00:24:25.624 I've been trying to repurpose some of that content on TikTok, and it's actually been working. But where I spend most of my time is Instagram and LinkedIn, which I can't even believe. 170 00:24:25.644 --> 00:24:35.104 Like, I scroll LinkedIn as a first platform versus Instagram and TikTok. It's so weird. That would have never happened to me a year ago, but now, yes, I'm on it every day, all day. I love it. Oh, okay. 171 00:24:35.184 --> 00:24:44.914 That's really interesting. I mean, because I also, um, have that sickness, but, uh- Yeah. [laughs]... [laughs] you say it wouldn't have happened to, happened to you a year ago. What changed? No. 172 00:24:45.044 --> 00:24:55.924 Um, I was scrolling on LinkedIn, and some of my... Jade, I love Jade Powell. Mm-hmm. I know her from Atlanta, and I used to love watching her content on LinkedIn, and I was like, "Let me try. Just, just let me try." 173 00:24:56.324 --> 00:25:04.044 And so I started posting more professional stuff but in a really fun, cheeky, quirky way, leaning into social listening, leaning into my day-to-day life. 174 00:25:04.064 --> 00:25:13.004 And I posted one video that was like, "Here's a day in the life as a social listening analyst at PepsiCo, bullseye content creator," and I was like, "Whoa, this works." People loved it. 175 00:25:13.064 --> 00:25:20.984 I got like 15 million impressions, and this is when like- Wow... the reach was good on LinkedIn. Mm. Now it's not like that on LinkedIn. Well, because now everyone also is figuring out, "Also, let me try this." 176 00:25:21.464 --> 00:25:26.284 Yes, everyone's like in their try it out era. Mm-hmm. Um, but I was like, "Okay, people like this," and I just gave... 177 00:25:26.304 --> 00:25:33.644 And I was like, "Let me just roll with this," and so that's how I started being more active on LinkedIn. And too, I love that when I was scrolling on LinkedIn, I was learning something. 178 00:25:33.884 --> 00:25:37.094 I was like, "Oh, I didn't know this," or, "Let me connect with this person." I would... 179 00:25:37.204 --> 00:25:43.624 I had more accessibility to people that I wouldn't be able to kind of connect with like on TikTok, um, with- on and Instagram as well. 180 00:25:43.684 --> 00:25:53.444 So that's what made me kind of make the pivot a little bit, and then I was like, "Let me try this content on Instagram, but let me just change it up a little bit for the verbiage to be more platform specific." Mm. 181 00:25:53.744 --> 00:26:00.264 Um, and so that's what I'm doing right now, and it's actually working in my favor. Like, uh, what kind of specific things are you shifting? 182 00:26:01.184 --> 00:26:10.764 It's more so like carousels or like the verbiage might be a little bit more cheekier. Yeah. It's like a diary entry, more conversational versus LinkedIn. 183 00:26:10.824 --> 00:26:16.324 It's still, it still has that professional touch to it that on Instagram it doesn't, you know, it doesn't have. 184 00:26:16.364 --> 00:26:24.344 The advice that I give is a lot more like I'm talking to my homegirl versus the advice that I might give- Yes... to on LinkedIn is more like I'm talking to my coworker. Yeah. So I try to... 185 00:26:24.424 --> 00:26:33.513 Just the small little nuances, even the images that I might use, the text. It... The nuances kind of work, and people pick up on it. Yeah, which I th- I think, honestly, that is 186 00:26:34.444 --> 00:26:42.244 something that people often forget is like- Yeah... you don't have to change a lot, but th- you do have to change a little bit, and I've, I've tested some- Yeah... 187 00:26:42.274 --> 00:26:47.384 of these, like, AI tools that, like, will, you know, take your full-length newsletter or blog post- Mm-hmm... 188 00:26:47.464 --> 00:26:55.564 or whatever and like chop it up into Twitter posts and LinkedIn posts and, like, Instagram ideas or whatever, and it just didn't work to me because the tools just were... 189 00:26:55.604 --> 00:27:02.494 They, they didn't really understand what that nuance was. Same. It's... You still need the, like, the human touch. And too, AI doesn't know your community. 190 00:27:02.644 --> 00:27:08.534 They, they might know, like, your tone a little bit, but, like- Yeah... they don't know your community. They don't know the conversations that you're having. 191 00:27:08.594 --> 00:27:15.124 So I use AI a little bit maybe to write captions here and there- Mm-hmm... but for the most part, I do it all myself. Yeah. 192 00:27:15.224 --> 00:27:25.174 Uh, this is a question I love to ask everybody who comes on the show, see, see if I get a little different answer. Uh-huh. How do you define creator? And specifically in the sense of like- Mm-hmm... 193 00:27:25.194 --> 00:27:32.384 content creator, not just, like, creative, but how do you, how do you define the term creator? Um, I would define a creator as 194 00:27:33.504 --> 00:27:40.544 honestly somebody that just loves to create content, but they're not doing it for views or likes. Mm. It's just things that they enjoy, passions, hobbies, and interests. 195 00:27:40.554 --> 00:27:53.704 Some of the, like, my favorite creators that I like to watch their content, they don't have a lot of views, but you can tell that they're passionate about what they're talking about, be it food, be it cooking, being a mom, be it grilling, be it making sourdough. 196 00:27:53.744 --> 00:28:00.054 I've been on sourdough talks, those are. [laughs] But they're not doing... Y- they're creating the same content, and you can tell that they're just very passionate about it. Mm-hmm. 197 00:28:00.064 --> 00:28:07.034 So I think that's what I would define as a creator. I need to think that, think that one to myself because I'm like- Okay. Well, I'll, I'll tell you a couple of my definitions... it's interesting. 198 00:28:07.034 --> 00:28:14.284 'Cause I really like that 'cause that's like a really optimistic view, and, and I think that that's, that's really good. Two, I've... So two definitions I have. 199 00:28:14.564 --> 00:28:23.484 One is the more general one, which is somewhat aligned with what you were saying, which is just somebody who is contributing to the corpus of the internet, right? Yeah. 200 00:28:23.524 --> 00:28:32.663 The internet is just a series of content blocks that we interact with on a day to day, so it's just somebody who is, like, contributing to that. Um, that's- Yeah... like a very high-level definition. 201 00:28:33.084 --> 00:28:44.254 The other one that I am more in on is, um, somebody who is creating digital media for distribution on the internet- Mm... uh, for an audience beyond their immediate friends and family. I like that. 202 00:28:44.264 --> 00:28:51.784 So they're actively trying to reach other people, and they're thinking about that. And then third, in some way, they're monetizing it, whether that's- Yeah... 203 00:28:51.844 --> 00:28:59.824 just basic ad revenue share, uh, or, like, it's brand deals, or it's like a top-of-funnel thing- Yeah... for, for something else. But it's like 204 00:29:00.864 --> 00:29:11.604 I, I- I'm al- I'm always tuning this, but I like this one because it, it encapsulates kind of the three jobs of, of, of the creator, so to speak, which are creation, growth, and monetization. Mm-hmm. That's good. 205 00:29:11.644 --> 00:29:19.504 No, that's good. The, the creator and influencer, it's just, like, blurred lines because now influencer has a creative- We have to talk about this too, the difference between creator and influencer. Let me know. 206 00:29:19.544 --> 00:29:30.144 What, what do you, what do you think it is? Ah. You know, now- nowadays when I look at it, like, even when I tell people I'm an influencer, I have, like, a cringe. I'm like, "Ugh, influencer," right? Yeah. 207 00:29:30.244 --> 00:29:35.884 I feel like what defines an influencer? What makes you say that you have to have a certain amount of followers in order to be an influencer? 208 00:29:35.964 --> 00:29:48.484 If I'm influencing one person to buy something or if I'm influencing you to start a business, then that makes me an influencer, but I'm also creating content. So for me, it has some blurred lines in between. 209 00:29:48.564 --> 00:29:53.654 I don't have a q- a definition between the two. I think- Yeah... okay, I think you're gonna like mine. Do you wanna share with me your creator? I think you're gonna like mine. Okay. 210 00:29:53.684 --> 00:29:58.154 So I, I think that influencer used to be maybe a thing, like, 10 years ago. Yeah. 211 00:29:58.184 --> 00:30:06.784 Early, it, n- you know, not more recently, too, but back before we had these more defined terms, back before the creator economy as an industry was a little more matured. 212 00:30:06.884 --> 00:30:16.596 Um, it-There was such a thing as an influencer, which was you, you could just be like somebody with a million Instagram followers, and they just- Yeah... post still images of them in Hawaii- Yeah... 213 00:30:16.606 --> 00:30:21.916 and, and then in Thailand- Yeah... and then et cetera. [laughs] You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Like, that is kind of the stereotype of an influencer. 214 00:30:22.096 --> 00:30:34.916 But I think today the level of competition on any of these given platforms is so high that your, your, your, your quality bar has to also be so hi- be so high, and you have to be really actively thinking about these things. 215 00:30:34.976 --> 00:30:45.046 It's so competitive. So my- Yeah, it is... my point is then influencing is no longer, like, a type of person- No... but it is a, it is something you can have and something you can do. It's more like- Yeah... 216 00:30:45.136 --> 00:30:57.556 one of the revenue streams that would be available to a creator. Maybe you're selling access to your audience, and you're selling the- Yeah... trust your audience has in you to a brand for, um, for, for a set sum. 217 00:30:57.876 --> 00:31:07.025 Or even it's like, you know, it's you have your own brand, and you're trying to kind of like turn that content capital into- Yeah... financial capital. Or it's like, you know, a, a- Mm... 218 00:31:07.036 --> 00:31:11.296 you're s- some politician is like makes, makes a deal with you, and you're just like, or doesn't- Yeah... 219 00:31:11.316 --> 00:31:18.476 make a deal with you, but you support them, and so you are, like, attempting to, like, lend the power of your audience to that person. 220 00:31:18.516 --> 00:31:28.926 But I think the, the influencer as so- as, like, somebody who that's all they do as part of their, like, creator work, I think that has diminished because it's so- Yeah... 221 00:31:28.926 --> 00:31:37.076 competitive that you have to have these multiple revenue streams- Yeah... and influencing only becomes one of them. Yeah, it's, it's a competitive, it's saturated. 222 00:31:37.176 --> 00:31:42.416 I think they've glamorized it a little bit too much where it's like- Yeah... the conversation on TikTok right now where girls are... 223 00:31:42.436 --> 00:31:47.666 you know, people are dropping out of college to be, you know, full-time content creators. I don't know if you saw that. It's like- Well, I'm, I'm actually-... it's a trending conversation... 224 00:31:47.676 --> 00:31:56.526 so TikTok is the one that I, I stay off of. I used to be on it, but, uh- Yeah... but I, I... you know, I, I burn enough of my hours every day on the internet, and so I had to get something out of it. So tell... 225 00:31:56.616 --> 00:32:06.846 so yeah, tell me. What's happening on TikTok? So there's a conversation that g- that's going around that talks about how a lot of, uh, girls or just people in general are- Mm-hmm... 226 00:32:06.876 --> 00:32:13.536 they're dropping out of college, um, to pursue content creation full time, and so there's so many people that's inputting into this conversation. 227 00:32:13.556 --> 00:32:23.656 They're like, "Do not drop out of college [laughs] to be a content creator. Not right now because right now the market, it's, it's saturated. The rates are not the same. There's too many of us here." 228 00:32:23.696 --> 00:32:34.696 And it's not saying that you, you shouldn't be a creator, but don't drop something- Yeah... as amazing as college where you might have a degree and all the other be- your backup plan to do this. Hedge your bets. Yes. 229 00:32:34.736 --> 00:32:47.016 Like, maybe a couple years ago a lot of us have done that. We've quit our jobs and, you know. But now with the market being so saturated, the money is not the same anymore. There's a lot of blurred lines, red tape. 230 00:32:47.186 --> 00:32:54.386 It- it's just a different time, and, and I wouldn't advise anyone but... against that. But yes, that's what's the conversation that's happening at TikTok at the moment. Mm-hmm. On TikTok. Are you... 231 00:32:54.436 --> 00:33:02.776 how do you feel about TikTok as a platform right now? You were just saying that, you know, y- LinkedIn you think you're still pretty bullish on- Yeah... but you think that the wave is kind of cresting a little bit. 232 00:33:03.296 --> 00:33:12.516 Uh, what do you think about TikTok? Uh, what, what are your feelings there right now? The love I had for TikTok is very different than the love I have now. When I used to scroll on TikTok, it felt very pure. 233 00:33:12.576 --> 00:33:19.996 It felt very... before TikTok Shop, before the ads, before... when everyone just went on there to really provide something. 234 00:33:20.036 --> 00:33:29.056 If it was entertainment, if it was education, if it was inspiration, I used to love TikTok for that. I would scroll and be like, "Oh, my God, I needed to hear that today." 235 00:33:29.536 --> 00:33:39.196 Now, I scroll on TikTok to watch Love, Love After Lockup, Judge Judy, uh [laughs], you know, a couple recipes here and there. It's saturated with TikTok Shop- That you save and then never cook? 236 00:33:39.286 --> 00:33:48.056 Which- 'Cause I know that's how I do it... 100, 100%. Some of them I do go back. Like, I made a red cabbage salad yesterday from TikTok. I was very happy about it. Okay. Um, but it's just not the same platform. 237 00:33:48.116 --> 00:33:53.896 I think... and then I think after the TikTok ban, a lot of brands are very hesitant about doing brand partnerships. 238 00:33:53.936 --> 00:34:02.946 I've had a couple brand partnerships that are, been like, "Hey, let's pivot off of TikTok and maybe do, like, a Instagram and a YouTube short." So it's just not the same platform. 239 00:34:03.056 --> 00:34:09.566 You know, I know there's a lot of people that make a lot of money off TikTok Shop, so I 100%, you know, don't wanna scare anyone away from that. 240 00:34:09.576 --> 00:34:19.096 But I don't feel like it's the same platform that it was, um, than what it used to be. You know, it's come... it's kind of... it's in the influencer era where it's like- Mm... let me sell you something. It's affiliate. 241 00:34:19.196 --> 00:34:26.666 Buy, buy, buy. But I don't get that emotional reaction from TikTok like I used to. Yeah. That's so, that's something I wonder too with... 242 00:34:26.986 --> 00:34:38.416 'Cause I'm, I'm also, I'm a millennial, around your age I think, and, uh, like the Gen Z kids maybe who are like 21, 22 and who have grown up with TikTok since they were, like, a teen- Yeah... in the way... 243 00:34:38.456 --> 00:34:49.396 I mean, I got on Facebook in, like, eighth grade, and that was my first- Yeah. [laughs] And then I was on, and I was on Instagram, like, I don't know, four, maybe six years later. Yeah. Um, it took a while. 244 00:34:49.536 --> 00:34:57.456 Um, and yeah, MySpace before that. But a- anyways, I'm getting away from myself here. But I wonder though if, like, for a kid who's, like, 21 or something- Yeah... 245 00:34:57.476 --> 00:35:05.896 you know, by the way, if, if any of you are listening, maybe sound off in the YouTube comments, uh [laughs]. But, but, like, how, how this feels more normal to them or doesn't. 246 00:35:05.996 --> 00:35:11.136 Um, and, and maybe I could find that out if I did [laughs] a little social listening. Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, but that, that... 247 00:35:11.156 --> 00:35:19.756 I mean, I really wonder that if, like, the kind of TikTok Shop or, like, the live feeds where you... I don't even have the right terminology, you know, where you're, like, giving them coins or whatever, like- Livestream. 248 00:35:19.876 --> 00:35:30.576 Yeah. Yeah. Like, is if, if that just is more normal and the more, like, the more social web that we were used to- Yeah... when we were younger that is harder to find at times. 249 00:35:30.616 --> 00:35:40.796 Like, if that just is something that isn't native to them, and they are, they are more... like, that transactional social media that's not really social- Yeah... but more just, like, market-based media- Yeah... 250 00:35:40.816 --> 00:35:46.496 is what they're more used to. Yeah. I mean- I mean, it makes sense. That's why they're, like, the lonely generation because- Mm... everything for them is, like, online. 251 00:35:46.556 --> 00:35:54.846 For us, you know, I was reading this article not too long ago, but it talked about, like, the abstinence of, like, those third spaces. Like, for us, we used to go to, like, the movie theater and the mall. Yeah. 252 00:35:54.856 --> 00:36:03.436 I used to hang out with my friends. You know, I used to work at Steak 'n Shake. Like, that's- Yeah... where we used to hang out, like, physically with friends. Football games. Like, Gen Z, they don't have that. 253 00:36:03.796 --> 00:36:15.376 You know, they're online all the time, 24/7. They don't really meet real people, and so they yearn for that, but they don't know-How to find friends. That's why you have, like, Bumble BFF. 254 00:36:15.436 --> 00:36:22.736 Like, you're using an app to literally find a friend. Like- Yeah... we didn't do that back in our day. Back in our day, we went to the roll- you know, the skating rink. We hung out with people from our high school. 255 00:36:22.776 --> 00:36:24.346 Like, it's just a different time. Yeah. 256 00:36:24.356 --> 00:36:33.276 And for them, yes, they grew up in the era of TikTok, so for them, "I wanna grow up and be a content creator," or like, "Yeah, I'm gonna create content so I can be a content creator." For us, we didn't have that. 257 00:36:33.336 --> 00:36:43.346 Like, I was on MySpace, Bebo- [laughs]... you know, Facebook. Like, that's what I was on. But we, it was never an aspiration- Yeah... you know, to be that. Well, yeah, 'cause yeah, there wasn't even... 258 00:36:43.396 --> 00:36:55.116 I mean, I think the word creator was first used by YouTube in like 2011- Yeah, yeah... 2010. 100%. Yep. And then it, it didn't really become, like, a viable job until- Yep... maybe, I don't know, five years later. 259 00:36:55.196 --> 00:37:02.136 But it's a, it's funny, one side, one side note on your third space's comment is, like, I, I've b- I was thinking about this conver- this idea a lot. 260 00:37:02.236 --> 00:37:11.176 Actually last week I was talking to some people about it, um, that the third space isn't dead, but it's kinda like you're saying, it's just that people- Yeah... people grow up on an app like that. 261 00:37:11.216 --> 00:37:17.096 Like, it, you, you learn that, that social ability to go out and just, like, talk to person, a person. Yeah. Like I was at... 262 00:37:17.115 --> 00:37:25.736 Right before we hopped on this recording, I went to a coffee shop in my neighborhood and got a little cortado. Um, did not run into anybody I know this time, but I often do. 263 00:37:25.796 --> 00:37:29.496 But I mean, because I live in New York, and, you know, it's a denser neighborhood and whatever. Yeah. I'll bump into friends there. 264 00:37:29.516 --> 00:37:41.316 But it's like the third space is alive and well, it's just that maybe people are afraid, are, are afraid of it or afraid of other people. I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's different. I've gone to a lot of... 265 00:37:41.356 --> 00:37:47.986 It's interesting, I've gone to a lot of creator events, and I am very shy to talk to people. I'm kind of, like, clamped up in a corner. Mm. I feel that. 266 00:37:47.996 --> 00:37:56.146 And I'm like, man, back in the day I used to be like, "Hey, what's going on? What's your name? My name's Jasmine." Never. You would not... Now, I'm like so, like, what do I say? I'm awkward. 267 00:37:56.556 --> 00:38:03.416 And I'm like, this is just so different, and it's because I've probably been inside a lot. Yeah. I'm scrolling online more. Dude, I feel you. You have this... 268 00:38:03.476 --> 00:38:12.266 Yeah, you have this, you know, this perception of people, parasocial relationships, like, it just goes, it just goes. So yeah. Mm. That is, that actually is a thing too, if you're at an event where there's- Yeah... 269 00:38:12.266 --> 00:38:19.866 somebody who you know who they are, and you know- Yeah... a little too much about them, then it is kinda weird to go up- Yes... and like, 'cause you know too much already. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 270 00:38:19.876 --> 00:38:25.705 It's like, wait, but people develop these false relationships. It's like there's some creators that I watch, I love them, you know? Mm. 271 00:38:25.726 --> 00:38:32.656 But sometimes I'm like, I'm talking to my boyfriend like, "Yeah, I saw such and such," and I'm like, wait, this is weird. Like, I can talk about her. [laughs] Like, this is weird. 272 00:38:33.036 --> 00:38:41.446 And people have come up to me and they're like, "Hey, oh my God, it's so great that you're in New York," and I'm like, oh, okay, okay. [laughs] People follow you, Jasmine. So, you know, it's, it's- [laughs]... 273 00:38:41.456 --> 00:38:48.006 just the name of the game right now. Yeah. But it's just weird, because that's not how it used to be. Okay. Well, so let's talk about you as a creator. Uh, we talked- Yeah... 274 00:38:48.036 --> 00:38:59.136 a little bit about this earlier in the TikTok versus the Instagram versus the LinkedIn. Um- Yeah... it's... I, I was picking up that maybe earlier on it was just, like, a, a creative outlet for you, and like a- Yeah... 275 00:38:59.145 --> 00:39:10.476 emotional outlet, and like a way to kind of like s- say how you felt and be seen. Um- Yeah... and then now it looks to me like it's almost more of, like, a business card for you. Yeah. Your social presence generally. 276 00:39:10.696 --> 00:39:18.496 Correct? Yeah. So I consider myself a brand now. Like, I tell creators all the time, like, you are a brand. Mm. Like, you're a brand, you can make money off of you. 277 00:39:18.536 --> 00:39:30.696 So yeah, I started monetizing off of social in 2022, but I didn't really consider it as another income stream until, like, 2023. What was the, what was the, the first dollar or whatever? How, how you first monetized? 278 00:39:31.456 --> 00:39:41.826 I think it was like 500 bucks. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't a lot. Like, and I thought that was a lot, and this is, like, when, like, I was like, "How are people finding brand deals?" I wasn't pitching. Mm. 279 00:39:41.856 --> 00:39:50.336 It was, like, inbound. Like, it was still, like, a very awkward conversation around, like, okay, how do I make money off of, you know, off of content? 280 00:39:50.376 --> 00:40:00.416 So yeah, I, 2022 was probably when I started really, like- Was it like a, like a product placement type of thing? Yeah. It w- what was it? It was, like, a skincare serum kind of- Yeah... ordeal. 281 00:40:00.476 --> 00:40:09.645 It was, like, something... I can't even remember the brand. But I remember it was, like, s- $500. I still have, like, my little Notion template where I wrote every single one that I got. I was like, okay, gifted, zero. 282 00:40:09.756 --> 00:40:19.056 So when I look back at it from time to time, I'm like, man, in 2022 I didn't make any money. [laughs] And now I'm like, oh, last year I did something. So yeah, it was, like, a skincare serum, but it was like 500 bucks. 283 00:40:19.096 --> 00:40:28.806 And so yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, you... I mean, you kind of, you, you learn, you learn, like, well, what is the worth of my brand? What is- Yeah... like, how can I position this? How can I argue, argue this? Yeah. 284 00:40:28.835 --> 00:40:38.816 Then it's kind of something too that, like, that negotiation ability, especially- Oh... if you aren't coming from, like, a business- Yeah... background, like, you might ha- you, you might have no idea. 285 00:40:38.876 --> 00:40:46.836 You might be asking for way too much, and then you won't get anything. Or you might, like- Yeah... be asking for way too little, and then you're kind of, like, helping them exploit you. It's, it's, it's, it's- Yeah... 286 00:40:46.856 --> 00:40:57.396 really hard. The negotiation, it still makes, still makes me nervous to this day. Mm. But now I will throw out a big number now. I, I'll, I'll talk to my boyfriend, like, "Should I say this? Is this too much?" 287 00:40:57.456 --> 00:41:00.896 I'm like, "What happens if they ghost me?" And they're like, "Don't. Do it. You never know what they're gonna say." 288 00:41:01.256 --> 00:41:16.316 But now when you understand, like, usage rights and paid media and perpetuity, all these things that I didn't know in the beginning that I was literally giving away for free, when a brand tells you, like, "Hey, we'll only pay you, you know, 1,000 bucks," and you're like, "Wait, you want 60-day usage?" 289 00:41:16.396 --> 00:41:21.376 Like, you know, there's exclusivity. When you start to learn those things, then negotiation is a little bit easier. 290 00:41:21.436 --> 00:41:28.596 But you can't be afraid, you know, to say a high number, 'cause you just never know, and then sometimes when you do throw out a high number, they're like, "Okay, yes." 291 00:41:28.636 --> 00:41:34.296 You're kind of like, dang, I should've gone higher than that. So- Yeah... it's a weird thing, you know, when it comes to negotiation. 292 00:41:34.336 --> 00:41:45.426 Well, this is, this is, uh, something I wonder about too, like, the maturation of the creator economy and, like- Mm-hmm... of these processes, where now, like, the, the, the percentage... Actually, I would... 293 00:41:45.476 --> 00:41:53.616 I don't know if I can say the percentage of people, but the number of people who know how to negotiate these things on both- Yeah... the brand side and the creator side has risen. 294 00:41:53.736 --> 00:42:01.896 I was gonna say that the percentage has risen, but I'm not sure that's true, because I think there's just so many more creators, so the percentage- Yeah... could have gone up or down. But- Yeah... 295 00:42:02.026 --> 00:42:09.196 on, on a purely numerical level, more of them know. But, like, I wonder how these things get codified, and I know there's, like, they create some kind of... 296 00:42:09.216 --> 00:42:17.586 I forget the exact name of it, but this Creator's Guild was recently formed, and, like, these things are, there's attempts to define them. But it's so hard- Mm-hmm... 297 00:42:17.596 --> 00:42:22.682 because there's always gonna be somebody who-Is, is less informed and, like, less, like- Yeah... 298 00:42:22.682 --> 00:42:33.332 protective of their, of their labor in that way, and is willing to, to, to sell, like, the, the ad, the placement or whatever for a much cheaper, a much cheaper number. I don't know. It's kind of- Yeah. 299 00:42:34.092 --> 00:42:40.142 A lot of creators now, um, are represented by agencies. Mm-hmm. I used to be represented by a couple agencies, all complete fails. 300 00:42:40.452 --> 00:42:49.152 [laughs] Um, but a lot of, you know, creators are represented by agencies, and so the agencies are kind of the ones doing the negotiation for them. 301 00:42:49.212 --> 00:43:01.132 But what I've kind of ran into, especially from, like, being on the brand side is a lot of brands don't really like to deal with specific agents or agencies because they go way too high, they're being, like, unrealistic with numbers. 302 00:43:01.292 --> 00:43:06.011 Mm-hmm. And a lot of them are doing that so they can get that 15 to 20%- Yeah... you know, on the back end. 303 00:43:06.052 --> 00:43:16.332 So, you know, it, it's, it's a weird space to be in with negotiation because it's kind of like you have to ultimately pu- put your trust into an agency to think that, okay, they're gonna negotiate well for me. 304 00:43:16.432 --> 00:43:24.752 But there's also this, like, I don't know, like, this bad taste in the, in brands' mouth because they just know, ugh, if you're represented I already know this is gonna be a field day. 305 00:43:24.812 --> 00:43:32.082 This, this is already the- It's gonna be, they're gonna send me-... the agent tax. Yeah. It's the agent tax. They're gonna send three or four other creators that are on their roster over to ask this. 306 00:43:32.082 --> 00:43:41.712 [laughs] That aren't a good fit. They aren't a good fit. [laughs] It just ends up being a whole whirlwind of things. Okay. So you, y- y- I, I should say, you've been a great podcast guest here. 307 00:43:41.772 --> 00:43:43.352 You've, you've, you've- Thank you... really brought the energy. 308 00:43:43.492 --> 00:43:55.242 Sometimes as somebody who hosts, you know, I know the pressure's always on me to, of course, do my research, to, like, be well rested, well caffeinated, et cetera. Like, bring some level of base energy. Um, 309 00:43:56.472 --> 00:44:04.772 that's been very, it's been very easy with you because you- Thank you... have a high level of energy, and you're, you're very good at articulating your ideas. Uh, which I bring this- Thank you... 310 00:44:04.802 --> 00:44:18.782 all up to say too that you had a podcast called Dear Women- Ooh... I Got Y'all- Oh, yeah... that ran for 10 episodes over three months in 2023. Uh, how did that come about? And then why did you stop? Ooh. Ooh. 311 00:44:18.852 --> 00:44:24.602 I totally forgot about that. [laughs] So that podcast came about, I was still in my... I'm s- I was still in the relationship that I'm in now. Yeah. 312 00:44:24.612 --> 00:44:34.472 But I was in this weird area where I wanted to do a podcast, and I really wanted to find a way to give, like, my inspirational, motivational, like, content that I was doing before. 313 00:44:34.532 --> 00:44:40.552 And so I worked with, like, The Tomorrow Network. The stuff that was really hitting on TikTok. Yes. And so I was like, "Let's put this into a podcast." 314 00:44:40.592 --> 00:44:46.461 So I worked with The Tomorrow Network on it, and I did these 10 episodes. The reason why I didn't continue is what I learned through that process is 315 00:44:47.572 --> 00:44:58.082 I struggled to put together content around those topics because I didn't resonate with those topics anymore. Mm-hmm. Like, I would be filming and I'm like, "Let's do this again. Let's..." 316 00:44:58.092 --> 00:45:02.772 It didn't feel natural, and I was like, there's no way I could do a season two on this unless maybe... 317 00:45:02.872 --> 00:45:10.472 Let's talk about corporate or s- and I've been thinking about that a lot lately, like maybe I can do a spinoff where it's more, like, entrepreneurship. But- Mm-hmm... I really struggled. 318 00:45:10.572 --> 00:45:18.892 I don't know if you can even tell on any of the episodes, but I really struggled with the content. And I was, like, happy when I had the episodes with guests 'cause I was like, "Okay, I get a break." 319 00:45:18.912 --> 00:45:25.241 But, like, when I was doing it by myself I really struggled 'cause I was like, "This doesn't feel natural to me. It doesn't come off of my tongue like it used to me because I'm not in the moment." Mm-hmm. 320 00:45:25.241 --> 00:45:29.932 "I'm not feeling those things anymore because I'm not that person an- anymore," you know? So, um, so yeah. 321 00:45:29.961 --> 00:45:37.572 That's why I didn't continue, but ultimately I did it because I wanted a space for women to be able to just listen and to have that. And so there's a lot of things that I would've done differently. 322 00:45:37.652 --> 00:45:47.652 But it was just good to test it out and to say that I did it. Yeah. That's... No. I can imagine. I've never done an episode of this solo. Uh- Yeah... but I, I couldn't. It's so hard. 323 00:45:47.872 --> 00:45:57.092 I, I can't, I can't carry a whole room like that [laughs] by myself. No. Ab- You know? Absolutely not. And then you have somebody watching you and filming you. I'm like, I'm trying to, like, cry. I'm trying to... 324 00:45:57.132 --> 00:46:09.572 I'm like, "This is not working." [laughs] No. No. I'm not... I, I, I can't manipulate myself that much. No. Um, [laughs] No. Uh, okay. Last question. So I watched one or two of your videos on Instagram- Uh-huh... 325 00:46:09.672 --> 00:46:17.181 where you were talking about how you had kind of had, like, a direction you wanted to go in with all your work- Mm-hmm... but not a specific destination in mind, which I feel you. Mm-hmm. 326 00:46:17.181 --> 00:46:19.802 About the, about the journey, not the destination. Yes. Yeah. 327 00:46:19.802 --> 00:46:33.972 Um, but I wanted to ask if at the moment you are more focused on having success with Que Lo Que, with your more, like, freelance, um, professional for- Mm-hmm... for hire aspect, or even as a creator. 328 00:46:34.232 --> 00:46:43.112 What are you most- Ooh... interested and invested in right now? I think for me what success looks like is just, um, I just wanna be a thought leader in this space. Mm-hmm. 329 00:46:43.122 --> 00:46:48.492 Like, I see myself five years from now, I'm like, I wanna be doing TED Talks. Like, I made a video about this the other day. 330 00:46:48.572 --> 00:46:53.962 I said, "I enjoy working a nine-to-five and also freelancing on the side because I like the duality." Yeah. 331 00:46:54.022 --> 00:47:01.601 Like, I know TikTok kind of glamorizes the idea of being your own entrepreneur, and they're like, "Ooh, nine-to-five, no. Quit your job." But I've always worked a nine to five. Yeah. 332 00:47:01.601 --> 00:47:06.592 You know, I've always been a freelancer or contractor. And so for me, success is just I wanna be a thought leader in this space. 333 00:47:06.652 --> 00:47:14.912 I want people to come to me and say, "Hey, Jaz, we want you to come in here and consult for us for six months around X, Y, and Z." Or, "Hey, can you come do a TED Talk about this? Can you write a book?" 334 00:47:14.932 --> 00:47:26.472 Like, I really just wanna be a thought leader. Yeah. And that's what success, you know, for me looks like. So if, if it's me working a nine to five being a VP of social intelligence or social strategy, then cool. 335 00:47:26.592 --> 00:47:33.222 If it's me being able to sign a s- you know, a seven-figure client to Que Lo Que, even greater. If it's me being able to- Very cool... 336 00:47:33.252 --> 00:47:41.892 be a creator, yeah, and go to Cannes, you know, hello, hello, hello, then that's great too. So that's what success looks like for me. I don't, I don't try to fit it in a box. 337 00:47:41.992 --> 00:47:52.512 I think it's, it has different, it, it has different lanes, um, if that makes sense. Uh, that does make sense. Uh, you know- Yeah... anybody who's still listening, send her those press credentials. Um, hire her. 338 00:47:52.652 --> 00:48:00.752 [laughs] Jazmine, thank you for coming on. This was, this was really fun. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was amazing. Of course. I had fun. I was nervous, but I was like, "Whoa, this is fi- you're a natural." 339 00:48:00.992 --> 00:48:08.012 Come on. Like, you're so good at this. Oh, shut up. Shut up. Um- Yeah. No, you're good... I, you, you made it easy. Okay. You made it easy. Um- Thank you... okay, [laughs] last thing. 340 00:48:08.672 --> 00:48:18.212 Uh, where should people go to find your work or connect with you? Oh, great. Okay. You can find me on LinkedIn. This is where I'm at usually majority of the time, and I'm usually talking to people in the comment section. 341 00:48:18.612 --> 00:48:26.012 So I'm Jazmine Griffin on LinkedIn. If you wanna learn about Que Lo Que, you can go to queloque.co, which is Q-U-E-L-O-Q-U-E.co. 342 00:48:26.712 --> 00:48:38.492 Um, and then I am on, I am thesocialista on Instagram and TikTok if you want more of the, like, lifestyle stuff as well. So yeah. That's where you can find me. Hit her up. And listener, I will see you next week. 343 00:48:41.972 --> 00:48:54.532 [outro music]