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Welcome back to the Creator Spotlight podcast. My guest today is Akil Chauhan.

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He runs The Writer's Job Newsletter or TWJN, which is exactly what it sounds like, uh, a twice weekly newsletter full of calls to pitch publications and both freelance and full-time jobs.

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It's been around for a little over three years and a little under two hundred issues. Um, and I actually first subscribed during a job search three years ago, which we can get into.

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Uh, anyways, does that cover it or is there anything else you want to add about yourself and what you do? Yeah. So that, yeah, that's me.

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So I, uh, started off, uh, yeah, working in software and things like this during the pandemic, like a lot of people.

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Got interested in little side projects and things like that, and that's where The Writer's Job Newsletter came from.

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And there's a bit of an interesting backstory behind it, which I'm sure we'll get into, but I wasn't actually the founder of this newsletter.

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I actually took this over, uh, from somebody else, which is-- which not many people know, but, but we can, we can dig into that. Yeah.

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Well, uh, that is exactly what, what I want to get into 'cause I was, as I was researching it, I was like, "Why-- what is this guy doing running a newsletter about freelance writing?"

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Um, but then I scrolled through your entire Twitter history, uh, and I [laughs] and I found a tweet, uh, from February 27th, 2022. You said that you had, uh, just had an offer for a digital business accepted.

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Uh, and I was like, "That. That's it. That's the thing. Um, he bought it." Um, so I guess a lot to talk about here. But I'd love to hear, like, why...

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And I haven't talked to anybody-- I've talked to somebody whose newsletter got acquired a few months ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

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But I haven't talked to anybody who's acquired a newsletter, so I'm, I'm quite curious to get into this. Um, so first off, like, from the beginning, what were you looking for?

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You-- sounds like you kinda wanted to get into buying an online business as a side hustle. That was your interest. Yeah. How do you get from that just basic desire to finding this newsletter and buying it? Yeah.

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Yeah, sure. So I can go into a bit of the background. So it was middle of pandemic, I was living in Toronto, middle of winter, lockdowns, all of that. A lot of free time, like many people had. [laughs] Yeah.

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And I had an itch that wasn't getting scratched through my day job, and I was looking for other types of avenues that I could put some of this extra energy and focus into. And I was thinking, "Okay, what could I do?

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I could start a business. I could make a, you know, little app of some sort. I could work on some hobb-hobbies and projects." And I mapped out maybe six or eight different, uh, potential avenues.

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And then a media business was one of those ideas. And I thought, "Okay, you know, newsletters," we were at sort of peak Substack at that time, you know, everyone was o- uh, setting up their own newsletter.

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And, and then I thought, "Okay, maybe newsletters would be a good way of scratching an itch without having to, you know, learn an entirely new domain." Pr-pretty familiar with writing, pretty good at writing. Mm-hmm.

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So I thought, "Okay, yeah, I, I think I'd be able to find a newsletter and grow it."

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Initially, I did think about starting something from scratch, then I was looking on certain marketplaces that were getting more popular at the time. Mm-hmm. MicroAcquire being one of them.

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Deuce is another that's focused just on newsletters.

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And I thought, "Oh, maybe I could save two years' worth of grind and trying to find a niche in one of these things, and get into something where a lot of the, uh, market validation essentially has already been done." Mm.

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"And I could find something that maybe, you know, I could just improve, innovate, and sort of, uh, grow from there." Yeah. I mean, it ma- it makes sense.

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Um, you're looking for something that, like, has product market fit a little bit. It's y-you don't wanna go through the rigmarole of, like, "What, what am I gonna write about?

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Okay, now I have to figure out the style, the format, et cetera." Um, it makes sense. Um, and I think, I think when you bought it, it was at, like, twenty-five hundred subscribers or something. Um, but- Yeah. Okay.

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Actually, yeah, but before we get back into that, so I do wanna hear, like, what... 'Cause I'm sure there was probably, I don't know, four or five newsletters you were considering buying. Why this one? Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, of course. And yeah, I was looking at a few different ones. Some were in really hot niches, and this is pre-AI, but there was one AI one- [laughs] -that seemed quite interesting.

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Then I saw this one about writing, and I was like, "This is it. This is the fit for me." I love writing. I love reading journalism. So I've always been interested in writing. I've always cared about good journalism.

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And here's this thing that can help writers with their jobs, and it can also help me, you know, do, do some of my own writing in a structured and formatted, uh, uh, way.

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So it was sort of a fit between an opportunity that was there, something that was sort of potentially on the market, but- Mm-hmm... but not, not, not entirely.

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The, the seller wasn't 100% ready to sell when I'd reached out to him. There was, uh, an interest and a passion there that was miles above all of the other opportunities that, that were, uh, out there as well.

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And of course, it was within sort of budget range that I had in mind, and it felt like there was a lot of low-hanging fruit that I'd be able to very quickly add value to the subscribers for.

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And, you know, the, the mission from the start has always been to help freelance writers find better paying jobs. Mm-hmm. And that's really unchanged.

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Uh, took over in about March 2022, and since then have just been doubling down on helping people find, uh, better paying jobs. Yeah. Which, I mean, it's a very solid concept, right?

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It's pretty, it's pretty easy to pick up that torch, I imagine. Um, I don't know if you're comfortable sharing, like, the how much you spent to acquire it. You don't have to if you don't want to. Yeah.

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But I am curious kind of the unit economics of, like, what goes into pricing that. Like- Mm...

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both for people, like, I'm sure people listening are-- would be curious to acquire a newsletter or have theirs acquired, what is the economics of that? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question.

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And so for me, there was a number of different factors that played into how I-- what I thought was a fair value and what the previous seller was willing to, uh, depart with it for.We, so we didn't use a more common method now, which is, okay, what's the price per sub- Mm-hmm...

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add a multiplier, you know, but a dollar or two maybe, and then add a premium on top of that. We didn't do any of that.

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It was more of a, he had a number in mind, and I backed into where I thought I'd be able to justify based on how I could grow it, and then we sort of agreed on a price. It was say, um, below 10,000, above 5,000 US.

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So- Yeah... that's the, that's the range that we were in. Uh, looking back, that was also when valuations for these types of small little businesses were quite high.

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I think if you were looking at a similar sized newsletter today that was for sale, you'd probably pick it up for a fair bit cheaper- Mm-hmm...

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just because there's a lot more abandoned newsletters and small projects that have, that have been left by the wayside and are available. Also, I think people have a better understanding of those unit economics. Mm-hmm.

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Back then, there wasn't really a lot of benchmarks and things that you could just have a look at at that scale. There's obviously things at a, a much larger scale, but, but at that scale there wasn't very much.

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So that, that's sort of what played into it. It was just a negotiation.

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We seemed to both be on the same page, that we wanted this thing to live on, and he seemed to trust me that I'd be the sort of right person to steward it.

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And once we got over that hump, it was, okay, well, here's the price that he would feel comfortable with, here's a price that I'd be willing to, uh, pay, and then we sort of met in the middle. Yeah.

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Um, that's, I mean, that, that seems like a, a pretty fair price for both of you.

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It's between two and three dollars per subscriber, which is like, you know, on Beehiiv Boosts, for example, sometimes people, that, m- most prices b- aren't, people aren't paying that much per subscriber, but sometimes people are.

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Obviously you wanna pay less, but, um- Yeah... I mean, for an established thing, been around for a year, uh, with such a good, like, niche figured out, I don't know, it seems pretty fair.

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Uh, I am curious, though, I don't, I, I think you might have some help, um, y- you, I don't know in exactly what capacity, I don't know if somebody's helping you- Mm-hmm... uh, source the job listings and such.

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Um, so my question is, like, what is the process for writing one of these newsletters? 'Cause now you do it twice a week, I think. There's kind of a premium and the regular.

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So what is the process, um, and who else- Mm... is doing it besides you working on it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, solid question. So, uh, I'll talk about the, the collaboration first, and then I'll talk about the- Mm-hmm...

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the, the writing of it. Mm-hmm.

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So I, when I took over the newsletter, there was a contractor who was helping me manage some of the social media, and that was just a legacy thing from the previous owner who, who was- Mm-hmm...

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uh, using, uh, one of the subscribers actually w- was helping to- Mm... uh, just post things on Twitter, just have a bit of a social presence.

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And after a few months of that, I, I felt like the, the tone and the personality and the, the, the voice that I wanted the newsletter to have was sort of diverging from what the online presence was. Mm-hmm.

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So I decided to rein that in and just sort of take over that side myself just so I could have a bit more control over the, the, the voice of the, uh, of, of, of the public persona, if, if- Yeah, the brand voice.

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The brand voice, yeah, exactly. 'Cause that was something that I was quite intentional with to- Mm... keep things as, uh, seamless as possible for, for the subscribers. You know, the subscribers aren't there for me.

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I love being there for them, but they're there for the opportunities, and I didn't want them to feel like, oh, this was a big change or, uh, or, or anything like that. Like, uh, so that, that's quite good to hear.

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Feels wind, yeah. They need to rely on it. Exactly, yeah. The people using this to find, find jobs, you know, find, find paid work.

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So it's, it's really important that they feel comfortable that this is under good stewardship, and that was, uh, that was one of the big things I tried to manage with that transition. Mm-hmm.

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As for the support now, uh, so it's mainly me that runs everything, so that's subscribers, that's the social media, pulling together job opportunities, writing it week in, week out.

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My partner does help me a little bit, uh, with, you know, just pulling together some of the opportunities. But it's still a bit of a slog to make sure that this is the best newsletter in this space. Yeah.

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Uh, and the big thing that we, we always try to do is find things that are paying and have pay transparency, 'cause I think that's so important for, for people that are trying to find these types of jobs, 'cause so often things aren't transparent until you have to put together a detailed pitch, you invest hours writing this thing, and it could completely not be worth your time even if you are successful.

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Then you find out it's 50 bucks and you've already put in three hours pitching. Yeah. Right. Exactly. You haven't even written the piece yet, and you, you [laughs] you're, you're behind there. Yeah.

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So that, that's one of the things that's quite important to me. So one more question about all that. The, so how you find the, the, uh, the opportunities to feature, 'cause there's a lot. I think it's like- Yeah...

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I don't know, 40 plus per issue. Um, and maybe some of those are, are regular, and so that's easy. You just always keep them in, but, like, monitor if anything has changed. Um, is it mostly, like, Twitter?

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Do you have any, like, automation set up where you've got like, you know, a, a bot that checks, you know, the New Yorker website? I don't know. How do you, how do you find- Yeah... these opportunities? Yeah, yeah.

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So I'll just explain sort of the, the structure of the newsletter. So- Yes, please... there's maybe two portions to the opportunities that, that we share.

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So half of that is the calls to pitch for specific finite pieces of- Mm-hmm... work, journalism, research, things like this.

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So that is, "Oh, yeah, I'm writing a news- uh, writing an article for, uh, the Austin Chronicle, and I need somebody to go out and go to this food festival, 250 bucks to do a little write-up on what happened that day."

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So that, that's sort of one side of things, and I think that's where a lot of the freelance writers, uh, really like to get opportunities from, because it gives them the flexibility of finding multiple different opportunities, work on their own schedule, all of the promises to freelance writing.

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Mm-hmm. And the, the, the second half of, of the newsletter is focused more on either full-time or longer term freelance jobs.

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So these are the things that aren't as finite as a c- pitch call, but are, you know-Could be many months of work, it could be a full-time job opportunity.

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And in that portion, it's, you know, journalism, it's marketing, it's social media management, and it's those types of more permanent type of roles. Mm-hmm.

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So sourcing each of those, I wish there was a bot that would make this easier, honestly. If there was, if there is, let me know, because I [chuckles] spend hours, hours every week scouring

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50 different bookmarks and tabs and Twitter profiles and Reddit posts and a whole bunch of other forums and Facebook pages. There's, there's a lot of places that- Mm-hmm...

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I go to to curate all of this, and it is a lot of work. Uh, one of the challenges, particularly on the pitch call side, is that there's no standard format of how these things are outlaid.

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So it requires you to actually go in and find them. Somebody might be just referencing a pitch, and then you need to go to the website to understand how much it's paid. Others will have all of the information there.

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Others will include parts of information, but they won't include the pay, so you need to DM them personally. So it's, it's a very manual task, and, uh- Mm-hmm...

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while there could be ways of automating aspects of it, I think that automation, based on my experience, would probably lead to a poorer experience for, for the- Yeah...

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for the writers because there'd be less job opportunities. No, I respect that you say that because I think that is, you know, whatever, AI can be useful in, in such many ways.

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Personally, I don't use it in too many ways in my work because I agree, it's like, I don't know, it's the human touch that makes these things worthwhile- Yeah... and good.

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I c- before we go into the audience itself, I'm curious about, like, the split between where, and I'm sure it's, I don't know, maybe you have an approximate idea, but the split between where these opportunities are based.

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Um, and I know it's mostly remote writing, but is it- Yeah... more US, more UK? What's the mix? Yeah, so this is actually something that I've, um, noticed has been changing over time a little more.

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The US opportunities for what the Writer's Job Newsletter does has been increasing quite significantly- [chuckles]... at, at a higher rate than the UK.

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And the main reason for that isn't because there are fewer opportunities in the UK. There naturally will be 'cause it's a smaller place, fewer people. Yeah.

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But the main driver behind that is because pay transparency is much more of a movement here in the US- Mm-hmm... than in the UK.

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So just by nature of, of this movement here in the US, states like New York, Colorado, California, uh, having to put out upfront on job opportunities how much kind of somebody can expect to be compensated for their work.

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So I'd say the split in terms of those opportunities is probably reflective in the subscriber base as well.

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I think, I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's maybe 70 or 65% US-based in terms of the subscribers, and I think the opportunities probably reflect that. Okay, yeah. That's interesting.

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Okay, back to the newsletter. I wanna talk about growth a bit. So I know- Yeah, yeah... uh, like I said, I've been a subscriber for three years.

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April 16th 2021 was, I checked, that's when I got my "You're signed up" email. Um, and I know where I found it, so I was- Yeah... subscribed to the Study Hall newsletter at the time, which, um- Yeah... still exists.

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It's changed a bit. I think it's changed ownership, but that was kind of a similar thing, but more of, like, community based. But then they also had, like, a weekly opportunities thing.

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Um, and I'm pretty sure I found, um, the Writer's Job Newsletter in one of their classified sections. Clicked it. Yeah. Signed up. Um, [lips smack] and then so that's how I found it.

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I'm sure plenty other people found it that way.

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Uh, but then also in a LinkedIn comment you posted, uh, two years ago or so, um, s- a year and a half ago, I don't know, um, [lips smack] you said that it had grown 100% through organic social, uh, but that- Yeah...

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it had become unfocused and spread too thin, which I think that's probably what you were talking about with the consultant and you taking back over. Uh, and then you said- Yeah...

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you refocused on Twitter and Reddit, and the growth shot up. Um- Yeah... so that was a lot of information, but let's start, let's do it in a few chapters maybe. So before you bought it, how had the list- Yeah...

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grown to about 20, it was, like, 2,700 or whatever? How had we gotten there? Yeah, so the, the majority of that was through organic social.

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There were a couple experiments that I think the previous owner had, uh, ran on Reddit. I think there were a couple paid ads. I think there were a couple newsletter features, Study Hall being one of them. Mm-hmm.

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I remember that one being, uh, relatively successful. Uh, but the majority of it was organic outside of those two. There were also a bunch of other channels that this was being, uh, pushed into.

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So there was the Twitter focus. There was a couple things on Reddit. There were a bunch of Facebook pages where, where things were being pushed to.

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And I wanna say that there was one more, but I'm blanking on what it was.

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So there, there was a few different areas, and when I got involved and looked at, uh, where is the actual growth coming from, it was clear that Twitter and Reddit were the places to double down. Mm-hmm.

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So that was where I was like, "Hey, let's stop posting in 15 different places, uh, and let's just focus on the ones that are working and double down on those." Yeah. Uh, is it, are you still doing the Reddit?

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'Cause I, I found the Twitter is quite active. Um, I dug around a little bit for the Reddit, but I couldn't find it. Maybe I didn't dig deep enough, but...

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I mean, you've dug pretty deep if you're going through these LinkedIn posts. So I, I, I'd say you, you went pretty far. But yeah, this was one that was, um, it used to be quite successful.

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It used to be very successful actually, and it was just a way of providing all of the research that I was doing week in, week out to another set of people that weren't, um-Yeah, on the core channel, which was Twitter or Subscribed.

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And I was just curating the full list of jobs or maybe the top five paying jobs from the week and just putting them out on a Reddit post in a couple different places.

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And initially there was sort of no, "Hey, click here to subscribe" or anything. Mm. You need to respect the, the rules of different- Yeah... communities.

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Uh, and Reddit is very focused on not, uh, encouraging self-promotion, so I was very respectful of, of that.

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Uh, since then I think some of the rules have changed, and the places that I was posting these things, even though I wasn't pushing them as, uh, aggressively as other people might do, uh, they, they decided they didn't like these curated posts anymore, so I had to step down and, and sort of turn away from that channel.

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So right now majority of the... I mean, pretty much all the growth comes from Twitter or recommendations- Mm... in other newsletters. Okay. Interesting. Um, okay, so, so real quick I wanna touch on the metrics.

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Um- Yeah... so today, how many subscribers, um, open rate, and click rate? Okay, so I pulled some of this up earlier. So we are currently at just over 10,000 subs, so that was after we did- Not bad...

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a bit of a cleanup towards- Mm... the end of last year. Uh, so broke that milestone, which is great. We're currently at around 55% open rate, so, uh, not bad. Things... I can explain some of the history of why, uh- Mm.

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Okay... that, that's gone down. Uh, and open... And clicks are at about, uh, 8 to 10... well, about 9 to 12. So about- Those are good numbers...

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just over 10,000 subs, about 55, 53% opens, and about 8 to 12 on the click-through. Is there any... Are there any other metrics you track, like segments you've made or anything like that?

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Uh, I track, uh, high level different, uh, sources of subscribers- Mm... whether somebody comes through Twitter or they go directly to the website. Uh, but no, that's something that I, I would like to do more of, but

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I just don't have time, honestly. [laughs] Yeah. No, I, I mean, uh, one that comes to mind, and I think I said the same thing to Kate Samuelson, who I featured last week, Cheapskate London- Yeah... was like your...

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How many... Like, you could, could set up a segment like this pretty simply. Like, how many people are clicking at least once a month, you know? Um- Yeah...

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'cause then that's a really good measure of, like, how many people are getting consistent value out of it and- Yeah... and get whatever you do with that data. But, um, anyways, so I mean, you, you were saying...

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When you were saying 55% open rate, which is quite a good number, uh, you were saying it with a little pain. So what was that pain? Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, so this used to be a bit higher.

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This used to be up to about 62, 61%, uh, a little while back, and the click-through was about 15 to 18- Oh, wow... uh, percent. So it was...

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So the, the conventional metrics that you measure success by with a newsletter did, were a little higher, uh, earlier. Mm-hmm.

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Now, there's been a couple different ways in the way that we've changed running, uh, the newsletter, which has caused some of that. So you mentioned the split between...

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Well, you mentioned briefly the premium and the free version. Yeah. So there's always been a premium and a free version. When I took over the newsletter, the premium was making about 150 bucks a month. Mm-hmm.

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Getting some of what that's increased to now. But

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based on some of the metrics and opens and engagement and things like this, I felt like the more reliable way to monetize the newsletter and justify all the effort that goes in, uh, every month is through charging

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freemium subscribers and getting value from them, uh, getting the value to them in a way that, uh, is fair for both of us. So- Yeah. Yeah...

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helping them to get the opportunities, but then also making sure that the n- the subscribers who are willing and able to pay, uh, can also, yeah- Fair exchange of goods and services... contribute to, to the newsletter.

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Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's sort of one of the things that's shifted.

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So while previously all s- all opportunities were available to everybody, now free subscribers get access to a good portion of them, and obviously the Twitter's always free, uh, where we post a lot of opportunities.

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Mm-hmm. But now if you want everything curated in your inbox without any of the hassle, uh, there is a, a, a premium fee for that. You, your LinkedIn is not that active. You've posted, I believe, eight times.

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Uh, the fifth time you posted was, um... The first time you posted was, like, 2021 or something. Fifth time you posted was the summer of 2022, and you posted about writing the newsletter.

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You were like, "Only five of my closest friends know this, but I've been doing this..." Uh, or excuse me, I think summer of 2023 or so. Anyways, um, "Only five of my closest friends know this.

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Um, I've been writing this newsletter for the past year. Here's what I've been doing," blah, blah, blah. Uh, why had you choose... I mean, I think I know why you chose to keep it private.

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It's 'cause you were like, you'd bought it and you were still getting used to it, et cetera. That makes sense. I don't know if there's more reasons we can get into it.

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But all that aside, why did you at that time choose to, like, start, you know, saying, "Hey, I write this newsletter," and stop keeping it private? Yeah. Yeah.

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No, it's a, it's a good question, and it is completely against my personality to put a post like that out. So it, it was a bit of a change i- in, in, in, in direction.

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And I'll be honest with you, the, the reason that I did this was because I was, uh, part of a writing course actually. Mm. Uh, it was by a

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businessman who's now a bit of an internet personality called Shaan Puri.Uh, who has a popular podcast called My First Million. It's a great listen, and he...

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I was part of his power writing course, and he had this, a bunch of different templates and structures that he used to get really popular online, and one of them was this, and the other key message was like, "You can do all this cool stuff, but if nobody knows about it, you're really limiting- Mm-hmm...

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the number of opportunities that might come your way." And I said, "Huh. Yeah, I'm doing this thing, I'm writing, and nobody knows about it. Why? I'm putting in all this effort.

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Of course, it's adding a lot of value to the subscribers, but without my name attached to it, you know, I, I might be losing some potential opportunities- Yeah...

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whether they're related to the newsletter or otherwise, that could be attracted to me if I, if I just put something out there." And I did, and yeah, it felt good writing it. It felt good putting it out there.

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It got decent engagement for, uh, you know, the things that I've, somebody's never posted before really. Um- 120 likes or something, I think. Yeah, right.

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Like, I was pretty happy with that, which is, um, probably the number of followers I've got on LinkedIn probably. [laughs] Ah, no, you've got 800 or so now. Let me check. Okay, nice.

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[laughs] But that was, you know, at the time, maybe it was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, so th- yeah, that was, that was sort of the, the, the thought process behind it, behind making that post at least.

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But I think the other question is, you know, my relationship with social media, 'cause you, as you noted- Yes...

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I've not been doing much since then, and that's mainly because I do like keeping certain things separate from my professional persona, um, and my personal persona, and my side project persona.

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Uh, whether it's healthy or not, compa- me- compartmentalize- Yeah... uh, th- these things, and I find it's easier for me to, um, stay focused on each of them without having them intermingled with the persona that is me.

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It's like I've- Mm... got these different places that I do things at, and for me, that's a healthier way of just staying abreast of, of everything that's happening. No, I respect that.

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From a social media perspective specifically, like I think it helps me stay grounded in, like, this thing is not me. This is the newsletter. The newsletter- Mm... people love it, adds a lot of value.

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But I think that helps me not attach so much of my identity to the social media metrics that I think I would otherwise potentially get caught up in. Yeah. I act- I like that. I, I really respect that.

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I think too, like, I mean, there's, uh, besides just compartmentalizing it for like your own sanity and such, like it makes it easier if in the future, like you got tired of running this, but you...

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And then you wanna sell it or something, right? Yeah. It's not like, how do we replace your voice?

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It's like, oh, no, somebody else can just come in and like you just write like a, a nice little intro note, and then you put in the stuff, and, and you go on. Um- Yeah... so I don't know. I respect that. I, I like...

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It took me a second to find your Twitter too, 'cause you weren't linking it anywhere, uh, but I have to find your Twitter.

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I have to see [laughs] what you're posting about so I can figure out that you bought this, uh, newsletter. Um- Yeah... but even on there too, you were like, it's... Yeah, it's definitely a different you. Um- Mm-hmm...

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but you're again not posting that much which, which is, I think, quite healthy. Um, anyways, we can move on from that. Uh, I do wanna go back to monetization. Oh, one, one other thing- Oh, no, go ahead...

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on the social media is, um, I probably would post more on that if I didn't have the newsletter because- Mm. It's an output already... all of the extracurricular time that I've got, uh, pretty much gets spent on that.

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So, uh, all of the thought and energy goes into the newsletter really. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's where my, uh, extra, extra juice goes instead of thinking about my own personal brand or things like that.

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That makes sense. I mean, there was a time like between jobs when I was like, "Oh, what am I gonna... I wanna write," so I started writing a lot of Letterboxd reviews. Uh, and then now- Yeah...

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I don't really do that 'cause I have other things to write. Um- Yeah... so I... One real quick question there, though. I don't think I asked this earlier.

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Um, do you have like an approximate how much time you think you spend per week on the newsletter? [lip smacks] Yeah, it's probably, hmm, maybe 6 to 8 or 10 hours depending on- Okay... on how much.

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Um, majority of that's looking for opportunities 'cause it's really ramped up since there's been the two sends per week. Oh, yeah. And because we're charging people properly now.

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So i- before when the premium thing was more like a Patreon type of model where pay if you can afford it, whereas now because we're paywalling content, the issues need to be up to, up to standard.

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So, so that's really increased the amount of time that we spend on it. Yeah. Uh, that makes sense. Um- Yeah... so let's get into, uh, people paying you [laughs] for, for content.

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Uh, so the premium, like you said, it was kind of like a more of a Patreon, Buy Me a Coffee kinda deal- Yeah... uh, for a while. Um, and then the, so the actual proper premium, when did you launch that? Yeah. So the,

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I guess that was probably relatively recently, I would say. Uh, I'm looking at a calendar over there, by the way. Yeah. I think it was November- Yeah, that's what I found...

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is when we sort of did the soft launch and- Mm... started to play around with like, okay, we're, hey, this thing's coming, this thing's coming, and then here it is.

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Uh, it was probably around November, and then I think we ran a couple sales or promotions through December, and then since then- Mm... it's just been, um, yeah, converting- Yeah...

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people across from the free version to paid, justifying why the paid is so much better than the free, and why this newsletter is also better than, uh, you know, other things that might do similar things. Yeah.

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Um, and so I think this is one of three monetization tactics you have or levers you have. There's the, the premium, um, you do some manual ad sales, and you have, you use the Beehiiv ad network. Yeah.

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Um, is there anything else or is it just those three?Uh, pretty much those three. I've done a couple affiliate things in the past, uh, but that's... Yeah, I wasn't a fan of those types of, um, engagements.

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So right now it's those three. Yeah. Um, and I, I don't, you don't have to share, like, your exact revenue numbers. I did see on Twitter there was, like, a Beehiiv post that you had made a few months ago.

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You'd made, like, $1,400 from the Beehiiv ad network in one month, which is, which is pretty good for just being one of the levers. Um, can you share though, like, approximate percentages of how the revenue breaks down?

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Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that, uh, post might have included a couple months of- Okay... uh, revenue in, in, in that post, which has been, sidebar, amazing.

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Like, the Beehiiv ad network is such, such a value add for subscribers. It's probably as a, as a paying user of Beehiiv- Yeah...

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one of my favorite features because it takes out all of the headache that goes into- It's a lot of work... organizing, scheduling, reviewing copy back and forth, embedding, looking at metrics, getting paid.

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All of that's done with a couple clicks, which is amazing.

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And the, coming back to the split, so it's roughly a 80/20 split right now I'd say between premium subscribers and sponsored content, and that sponsored content is probably a mix of- Wait, uh, premium is 80%?...

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mainly Beehiiv ad net- Sorry. Premium is 80%, yeah. Wow, nice. Yeah, premium is 80%, and the premi- uh, the, uh, ad network is the majority of that remaining 20%. Mm-hmm.

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Um, do you do much manual ad sales still, or is it more, more mostly the Beehiiv ad network now? Yeah, still get a, a few every month usually. Um, yeah.

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A- and those would be either people inbound, former sponsors that wanna sort of go again, other, uh, offers and things that people might be running occasionally. I'd, uh, fe- feature them.

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But the majority of that is now just the Beehiiv network. Nice. Easy. Yeah. Um, moving on from this, I wanna go back to audience. So I...

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A question I often ask people, but more often than not people don't really have an answer for, it's not something they really think about, is, like, responsibility to your audience. Whereas you- Yeah...

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it keeps coming up. You keep bringing it up without me having to ask you. You know, it's like this is a service, people rely on this for their income.

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You know, you want to be very careful in, like, not inserting yourself too much. It's clearly something that matters a lot to you, so- Yeah... I, I like that. I respect that.

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Um, I don't necessarily need you to wax more on that, but I am curious about your relationship to your audience, um, besides just like, you know, being, like, eager to give them a good product.

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Um, is there, like, do you engage with these people? Is there much like, you know, comments, discourse? How do you engage with your au- what's your relationship to your audience?

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Overall, it's a relatively distant one for the masses. Mm-hmm. You know, I provide the service to the writers, and that, that's, that is my priority.

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And like I said, I don't want to insert myself too much, but I do have a good relationship with a handful of subscribers. They know who they are, and they would give me feedback- Shout out to them.

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Yeah, shout out to them if you, if you're listening to this. Amara, I see you. [laughs] Uh, but, but yeah. Th- so some of them are so lovely. They, they encourage me. They, they, they're so appreciative of the work.

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They know how much effort it is to- Yeah... uh, p- put all of these things together, and they're, they're the ones that I really look at for, uh, feedback a- and things like that.

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And they're the ones oftentimes who've been supporting for, for an extended period of time, which is really good.

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Uh, but yes, it is intentionally quite distant, uh, mainly because I see the newsletter as almost like a utility for them. They, they- Yeah... get access to this suite of opportunities week in, week out.

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It needs to be reliable. It needs to come in every week, twice a week, regardless of work schedules, regardless of the travel that I have to do for the day job or, you know, personal vacations.

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I always try to make sure that people are, are getting the newsletter and getting the opportunities specifically. Mm-hmm. And if that means I have to take time away from putting Akhil in there, I'm happy to do that.

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Yeah. No, that's awesome. E- especially 'cause, like, with some people you can get ahead on the news- some people's newsletters they can get ahead. With mine I can get ahead a little bit.

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I'm not as ahead as I'd like to be, I'll admit. [laughs] Uh, but with you, it's actually quite hard to because everything is, you know, what are the pitches this week, right? Yeah.

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You can't feature something that's like two weeks old. Um, do you, do you ever like, have you taken any weeks off or anything? There, there was one week

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that I remember taking off, uh, because we had a loss in the family, so- Yeah... that, that was one where on the day- People understand that... I, yeah, I just sent an apology to everybody.

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Um, there is a week that I'm taking off, not this weekend, but the following weekend, uh, because I'm gonna be out in rural Scotland and- Mm-hmm... won't have access to, to internet.

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Um, so I try, I try not to just because I know that so many people rely on this for their, for their work. Mm-hmm. So I don't want my personal schedule to get in the way of them finding job opportunities.

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Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, that'll be nice too- Yeah... a little vacay, escape the, uh, muggy Austin heat for the, uh- Yeah... buggy Scottish islands a little bit. [laughs] Yeah, right. [laughs] Nice. But yeah.

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It is, it is a bit of a grind, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there are weeks when it is tough and it's hard to manage everything, but

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even in those weeks where I might not be able to give 100%,Try to do 80%, try to do 70%, and try to get something out there for, for them- Mm-hmm...

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because I know that a lot of people, uh, you know, d- it is important for their, for their work. Yeah. No, give them a little something. Um- Yeah... so one thing, going back to that LinkedIn post. Yeah.

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You, you included a list of six things you'd learned about over the course of doing it.

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Um, I imagine some of these things you're not really doing anymore, um, some of these things you're doing more and have learned more about. The list of things was cold email- Yeah...

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brand building, website design, employing contractors, managing a community, and finding and running sponsorships. Um- Yeah... are there any... We don't have to go over every single one.

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That, that would be a little boring, uh, but maybe one or two of those things that, like, you think about the most, or that you feel you've learned about the most, or learned something that you'd like to share with other newsletter creators.

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Yeah. So I think the power of a cold email is so underrated, even in a d- world like today where we are bombarded with emails promising the world. Yeah.

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You never know where just pinging somebody at the right time with the right message can resonate. That was actually the way that I engaged with the seller of the newsletter. Oh. That, that's how this all came about.

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While I'd seen it listed on a couple different places, uh, I actually just cold emailed because I wasn't getting through on some of those other channels, and then that snowballed.

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A bunch of sponsorships come in that way as well. I think another thing that i- that is important is brand building. Mm-hmm.

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And when I think about the Writer's Job Newsletter brand, it is related to that former question, or that previous question, on, uh, related to that utility. Like, the brand- Yeah...

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of the newsletter is, I think, it's reliability. Like, this is gonna be here week in, week out, and you're gonna get the best transparent pay opportunities.

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And I think that has been really important, and I think reining in a lot of the other distractions that we had for a period of time really helped refocus on that core mission, which is help writers get paid.

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And that's what I think a good brand is, when you can summarize it in a couple words, and that's what we really tried to focus on with the newsletter. Everything else is supporting that mission, you know. Mm-hmm.

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Finding sponsorships helps to support that mission. Website design helps this get out to more people. The social media stuff gets the message out, help people come to the brand. But it is, is really, uh, that, that...

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I think the brand is core to what, what the newsletter offers. Yeah. That's a strong point. I mean, it's, I, it... Not many people can just say, "Help writers get paid." Like, that's four words there, right?

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That's, uh- Yeah... that's a good brand, and it's about trust- Yeah... right? And, like, I don't know. I think when some people think of brand building, it's just, like, the visual aspect of it.

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Um, but it is more like what people think of when they think of your, your thing. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, one, one small story. This, this is one of my favorite stories, um, about the newsletter.

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So I got an email once from a writer who was really struggling, and she, uh, was looking to break into sort of the B2B tech writing space- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm... but she hadn't had much experience in that.

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And then through an opportunity she found in the newsletter, she had 4X'd her income onto a multi-month- Wow... engagement, uh, with a brand, and I was just floored.

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Uh, the, the, the appreciation she had in that note was amazing. You know, she could afford to do stuff with her family.

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She could, you know, pay for things for the house, and it was like, wow, like, this is, this is why I do it, you know? Yeah.

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Part of it's like, oh yeah, you know, run a little business online and it's a bit of fun, but really the outcome is r- really impactful for a lot of people, and I think getting messages like that when they do come in really, really does make all the effort worthwhile.

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Yeah. No, that's, that's beautiful. I mean, you're doing work worth doing, right?

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Which some- I think, I think that's something people have trouble with sometimes when they're starting a newsletter, where it's like- Yeah...

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I wanna start a newsletter because it's, like, trendy or something, or like I like writing, but it can be hard to find that purpose. Um, and it's- Yeah... I don't know. I, it's cool that you, like...

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This, again, this is something you found and bought, but it's still like you were able to plug into that purpose. Um- Yeah. Mm-hmm... it's nice. Wraps up neatly- Yeah... in a bow. Um- Yeah, yeah...

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a couple more questions. Uh, so you've been doing this now for, like, a little over two years you've been running it, correct? Um- Mm-hmm... two years from now... Well, actually, let's go a little slower.

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By the end of this year, what are your goals? And then beyond that, two years from now, what are your goals? Yeah.

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Yeah, so the immediate goal right now is to revamp some of the additional offerings for premium subscribers. Mm. So premium subscribers as it is today, they get two full sends every week.

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They have all of the opportunities from the last few days and a summary of all of the opportunities, uh, from the entire week. That's in their inbox.

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They also get access to a historical list of all of the opportunities that have ever been shared in the newsletter in a Google Sheet. Oh.

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And that's something that we're revamping, so gonna make that more accessible and make some of the information that's stored within it a lot, lot easier to navigate 'cause I think tools like that which have transparent pay on a pitch by pitch basis will allow writers to understand how much does this publication tend to pay even if they're not transparent with the pay on any single opportunity.

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Mm-hmm. So I think that's a huge, huge value add, but we just need to refine that offering and, and make it more accessible.

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There's a couple other things that we're working on after that, again, just to add more value to the people that are choosing to pay for this week in, week out, and one of those is a complete breakdown of pitch guides and sort of having a library of pitch guides from around different publications, so people can get an understanding of, you know, what our publication- Mm...

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is looking for when it comes to pitches.And then the longer term goal is to have something that is, uh, sort of like a, sort of like a how-to guide on how to write pitches, but informed by successful pitches.

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So my, my goal would be to have a library for premium subscribers who can just go in and have a look at pitches that have worked in the past for other writers- Mm-hmm...

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that they can use as models for their own approaches. So tho- those are three things that I'm focusing on.

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We're really doubling down on how to add more value to the, that paid subscriber group for the next sort of, you know, six, eight months or so. Yeah. That makes sense.

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In like an abstract longterm vision way, two years, five years, uh, not quite 10 years, um, what, like, in your wildest dreams, what does this become? Hmm. Yeah, this is something I hadn't thought- Or is it...

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Or wait, real quick too- Yeah... it's like also, like, I don't think everything needs to, like, become something big. Like, maybe what you just- Yeah... described is perfect, right?

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Um, so don't feel like you need to, like, give some grand vision. Yeah. I mean, my, my immediate vision is just to continue having this newsletter be the best place for writers to find- Yeah... paid opportunities.

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That's it.

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Whether that, the metrics associated with that, maybe that's a higher subscriber base, maybe that's increased revenue, maybe that's better newsletter statistics, maybe it's being featured in more places, like the newsletter was featured in Writer's Digest as one of their top 100 websites for- Nice...

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uh, writers last year, which was amazing. And yeah, there's a coup- there's a bunch of other metrics that can help guide to, as to whether that's being met, but that's, that's the, that's the goal.

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Like, make sure that this is the best place. What does that look like? Yeah. Okay, it might not be the biggest list, but it's gonna be the most valuable list of- Mm-hmm... opportunities- The most trustworthy...

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that are coming out. The most trustworthy. It's gonna be a place where publications will eventually come to proactively to offer their pitches- Mm-hmm...

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instead of having to post in s- in some other place, because they know that the level of quality of subscriber, or a pitch that they're gonna get from this newsletter is gonna be higher than if they just blast something out on Twitter or other social media platforms.

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Yeah. So I'd say that's sort of the, the amorphous goal. Like, what does that look like? Ah, man, I have no idea. Like, th- this- No, yeah...

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the, the, the plan right now is just to, just to keep offering the best product in this space, and, uh, let, let the subscribers vote with their, with, with, with, with, with their, with their open- With their subscriber, with their open, yeah.

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Yeah, with their open. Um, no, that's great. Um, okay, one more question. Um, two, a two... Well, it's a two-parter. Um- Yeah... biggest regret from running this, or misstep, or failure? Hmm. Hmm. Biggest misstep.

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I think there was a period of time where I fell out of love with the newsletter. Mm-hmm. And I wasn't as committed as I, as I should have been. That, that is, I hope it's come across, has been sort of- Yeah...

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reestablished, and there's this real sense of duty that I feel now. But, um, I think there was a period of time, and it was around that transition, and move, and personal stuff- Yeah...

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going on that meant that I didn't have the mental bandwidth to give the newsletter the, the effort that it, it required. I'd say that, that

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was necessary, I think, but also I look back at that period of time with a bit of regret, because I think I probably could have continued to do more, even if I, even, even if it was a bit, bit challenging for me at the time.

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But I- Well... I'd say that, that's the only one. A couple other small things, you know, maybe I could have taken the reins sooner. I should have subscribed to Beehiiv sooner. Mm-hmm.

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I can't believe I ummed and ahed on that decision for so long. Um, [laughs] 'cause- You were on, what was it before? SubKit or Mail... Or was it MailChimp? SubKit. I was on- Yeah...

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MailChimp very early on, and then SubKit w- for a period of time, and then I transitioned to, to Beehiiv. And yeah, I just wish- Yeah... I'd done that sooner. It's a good platform. Um- Yeah. Okay, I think that's it.

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Um, where should the people find you? Okay. Yeah. You can find me at thewritersjobnewsletter.com. It's a bit of a mouthful, but, but that's it. Uh, you can find me @job_writers on Twitter,

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and you can Google me, search my name, and I might pop up, I might not. Yeah. S- see what you get. It's a bit hard to find. Um, all right. This has been the Creator Spotlight podcast.

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[laughs] Uh, our guest today has been Akhil Chauhan from The Writer's Job Newsletter. I have been your host, Francis Sirar, and it would really help me out if you went and rated us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

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I'll see you next week. [outro music]