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It's very worrying when I'm being told things like that by people with power in newsrooms because they're wrong. Sophia Smith Galer is an award-winning journalist, author, and creator with nearly a million followers.

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She has built her reputation by proving that good quality journalism can exist in short-form video.

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There are experienced people who thought I was doing very innovative things that should be encouraged, and I had to deal with people who thought the opposite.

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They thought that TikTok in particular was all lip syncing and, and dancing, which thankfully is, is a, is a myth that's long been put to bed now.

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After her time at the BBC and Vice, she launched her own consultancy, Viralect, where she helps others with their vertical video strategy. A common one will be they haven't got a niche and can't see one.

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People who are, you know, naturally multi-talented, multifaceted, they think that they can make content about 10 things. How about three things- Yeah... that are all united by this one common theme?

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This year she released Sophiana, a tool to help anyone translate their written work into short-form video.

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The two biggest obstacles for journalists in making vertical video content are that they feel like they don't have enough time, and they don't feel like they have the requisite video skills.

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And it launched in June, and we're being used in over 100 countries around the world.

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In this episode, we cover her leap from legacy media to building tools for creators and why she believes that integrity, not polish, is the key to being a great content creator.

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You really do have a huge responsibility in my view to put out high-quality content. And by that, I mean there's rigor to it. It's- Integrity... well-researched. It has integrity. Exactly.

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Is there anything that could tempt you away from continuing to build this? My ongoing challenge, which I just- Mm-hmm... I don't know if I will ever solve it, but... So I want to start with presenting.

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Um, you obviously are very good at presenting, uh, in your videos. You've worked at the BBC where they, they train people very strictly, I believe, on this kind of thing.

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Obviously you have your own skill too that predates that. Um, Sophiana, which we'll get into a little later, is also to do with this.

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I would love to start by you telling us what goes into putting across a good performance as a short-form video presenter. I don't think I got any training at the BBC. That's interesting, um, that people think that.

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You do not get any training really in journalism jobs these days- Mm... I don't think.

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You're expected to come fully trained, and I came in a, with a bro- with a master's in broadcast journalism, so that's where I got a lot of my training doing that course. Yeah. What makes a good presenter?

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It's a pretty boring answer I think, but it's that some- that someone is themselves. Mm. I don't think people need to sort of act like someone else or try and do something they've seen on TV. It's about just being them.

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The thing I said about the BBC, I took that from, you were on a podcast, I think it was the Media Confidential podcast, um, earlier this summer, and I think it was that one.

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You were talking about how the BBC does have strict guidelines for audio and video presenting, right? You have to speak in a certain way at a certain speed.

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Um, and I, the, the reason I, I brought that up is I've talked to a few journalists for this who have said explicitly that like they would not have been able to step out and build their own independent media businesses had they not spent-- Uh, I'm thinking of one guy, Matt Brown, for example.

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He has this college sports publication, Extra Points.

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But he was at SB Nation, which is a Vox property, for some years, and he said how had he not spent six years there, he would not be able to have-- he would not have been able to build his business in the same way.

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Um, so I was, I was a little surprised to hear you say that, uh, that you didn't receive such training there and that you don't necessarily attribute, uh, any, any part of your w- your work now to, to training there.

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My, my broadcast training in terms of how I learned how t- delivery and scripting, I learnt prior to joining the BBC. In the master's program? In my master's program. Okay. Yeah.

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And so by the time I was at the BBC I was already making, so I, I was, I was no longer in a, in a training position as it were. Um, and what you learn- Mm...

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generally speaking broadcasting in British media, so not only the BBC, but a lot of- Yeah... organizations would be like this.

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You do have to speak, uh, slightly more slowly on TV and on the radio than you would on social media- Mm...

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which won't surprise anyone who may, may have been scrolling and watching videos and, you know, you're seeing people speaking at a very normal speed as opposed to a more thoughtful pacing is possibly how I would- Mm...

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describe some of the delivery that you would have on a place like the BBC. Um, of course I learnt, I learnt plenty of things doing my staff journalism roles.

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So I was a social media producer at the BBC before I became a video journalist there, and then I left the BBC to become a senior news reporter at Vice. Mm-hmm.

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And I learnt lots of different things in those roles, but I wouldn't necessarily say, um,

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I learnt anything really connected to kind of, to, to having a, a personal social media account and creating vertical video content. Oh, sure. Mm-hmm.

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Um, I, I wouldn't say I did much there or that I-- That is something I also didn't do on my master's. You know, that is really- Yeah... is something that you just have to learn, learn on the job as you do it.

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There's-- I don't think there's any practice for it. It's very practical. Yeah.

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I mean from what I understand it was more that work, being in an organization was more impeding your, your progress in [chuckles] in building that skill, right?

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H- Being a video journalist made me an incredibly fast editor, which is a skill- Mm... that I still really heavily rely on today because it means that I can make a video very quickly. Yeah.

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So that's something-Yeah, really useful that I took,

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uh, from that kind of work, from producing lots of kinds of different stories I think is very healthy preparation for the different kinds of treatments you might be giving.

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You know, I mean, again, I didn't get this at the BBC. You know, my, my master's would have given me media law training- Mm... um, journalism ethics training. I think those are just as important if you're

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a content creator, uh- Mm... never mind just a, just a, a traditional journalist. Yeah. So, um, of cour- of course I learnt tons of things in those jobs, and I experienced both attitudes while I was there.

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I experienced people who thought I was doing very innovative things that should be encouraged, and I had to deal with, uh, people who, who thought the opposite. They thought that, um,

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you know, TikTok in particular was either a risky platform or that- Mm-hmm... it was all lip syncing and, and dancing, which thankfully is a, is a, is a myth that's long been put to bed now.

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But you still, you still find the odd very traditional mindset in tr- in, in traditional journalism that still believes that. Um, and that's why no young people are watching them, so. [laughs] Correct. Um, okay.

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The, the more formal journalism training, I've spoken to people for this who, uh, consider themselves capital J journalists who, who did go through such programs, who didn't go through such programs, who have worked at, you know, traditional media organizations, who haven't.

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I would say that most, alm- almost nobody who I've spoken to who's doing some sort of journalism, um, has not had at least one of those experiences, right?

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Uh, but one of the things I really like to get into here is, like, the line between what is a journalist, capital J, lowercase J, or not at all. Um, I know you have some thoughts on this.

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How would you define journalist in, in, you know, now in the context of the content creator area, a- era? Um, and I'd also like you to define creator separately from journalist. I think, uh, my first thought is

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going by what p- what people think the word means. So obviously there are, there are people who, who trained in it- Yeah... and are probably always gonna identify as it. But, um, journalism is something that you do.

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It's not really something that you are- Mm-hmm... I think. And so happily, lots of people can, can do quality journalism.

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If someone choose to define themselves that way, it probably means that they're making a statement to the world that they are either, you know, holding power to account in some description or investigating something or are published or are connected with legacy media.

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Mm. That is what I would assume if someone described themselves as a journalist. Even within the media, you know, someone who writes op-eds all the time and someone who writes one investigative piece

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every other year, like, both of those people are journalists. So it's not... It's, it's a kind of a one-size-fits-all- Mm... term anyway, and that's why it's so, it's so flexible.

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And then if someone describes themselves as a creator, I'm perhaps assuming that they are a storyteller like a journalist, but they're probably not doing original investigations- Mm...

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um, they're, or, um, original reporting in the way that I, I would understand it.

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That doesn't mean they're not doing very interesting explainers and analyses, but it might be that some of the sort of skills they're not, that they're deploying are not necessarily the skills that we would see in traditional journalism.

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Within the journalism industry, it's been helpful calling myself a journalist creator, which really I shouldn't need to do. Mm. I am just a journalist.

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But, um, to help them understand sort of the focus of where my work sits and, and the formats you will find me in, when I say I'm a journalist creator, instantly people will, will be aware that I'm quite video-centric.

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Like, in the same way if a journalist introduced themselves as maybe, like, a journalist and podcaster, y- you make the assumption that, oh, okay, they've probably got,

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they've probably got a show that, that's done pretty well. You know? Yeah. It's got, it's got thousands of, of people listening to it.

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Um, so f- from my perspective, it's always kind of listening out to how people describe themselves. Mm. And that, that tells you what their intention is with the content that they are making. Yeah. I think that's apt.

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I, the one difference that you sort of touched on but I wanted to, to pull out is, is maybe the ethics and the media law difference, right? I've, I've spo- I...

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One question I used to always ask people that I stopped asking 'cause I often did not get an answer at all was, uh, whether or not people thought about the responsibility they do or do not have to their audience, and I got a lot of answers that were like, "I, I don't really think about that," right?

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And these were not n- people who I would describe as journalists, nor would they describe themselves as journalists, more creators.

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Um, but I think, I think that is a big difference when you're looking at somebody who might be at the intersection of whether or not it's like they call themselves a journalist. Um, it, there's something...

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Like, even when people maybe are possibly identifiable as a journalist, but they hesitate to call themselves that, I think there's a lack of a deep knowledge of ethics or responsibility.

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Um, I also think that, like, the way you describe, like, you know, you might use the word creator journalist or journalist creator to describe yourself as a reference to broadcasting that you do these types of videos.

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More and more I've been thinking that, like, maybe five years from now, 10 years from now, maybe a little longer, right, we won't use the word creator at all because it'll just be so obvious and given.

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Um, and you know, five years ago when you were making videos and, and it was less common, maybe you had to call yourself that. But in, in 10 years, say, you're just a journalist. Yeah. I th- I think-That could happen.

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I will say that the upt- the video uptake amongst journalists has been really slow. Uh, I am, I am not as confident- [laughs]... that we'd, we'd see things happen that quickly- Mm-hmm...

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based on the speed I've seen things happen over the past six years, which is the time that I've been making video content. Mm-hmm. I do feel a huge responsibility to my audience.

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Um, and not only do I feel a huge responsibility, but if I were to, to fail- Mm-hmm... in that, I would be held to account, for sure.

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So I think, yeah, I think this is something that any creator worth their salt, y- should be very alive to, and wanting to really do the best by- Mm-hmm... people who consume their content.

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And that is both followers and non-followers. Because to be honest, if you're making high-quality content, your stuff's being seen often more, more- Mm-hmm... by non-followers than followers.

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So you really do have a huge responsibility, in my view, to put out high-quality content. And by that, I mean, you know, it doesn't have to be, um, high production value.

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That's not what I mean when I say high-quality content. I mean that it's, uh, there's rigor to it. It's- Integrity. Mm-hmm... well-researched. It has integrity. Exactly. Mm-hmm.

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Um, so you say that you would, you would still say that, uh, journalists are slow on the uptake on adopting video.

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This is a large part of your trade, right, is in convincing them to and helping them to do so effectively. What is the argument you find most effective, uh, to break through people who are more skeptical even now? Oh.

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[laughs] I don't know if I have- [laughs]... found the most persuasive argument yet. Um,

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I, what, some of the things that I have done, um, 'cause I, I, I don't know if I know which one is the most persuasive, but, um, obviously,

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if I ever have people saying, "Well, like, you can't, you can't do this kind of content or vertical video-" Mm-hmm... happily, I can say, "Well, I can, and I have done it." [laughs] It's possible. So- Yeah...

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it's great that I can be, um, the use case that- Mm... disproves this, and I can, you know, I can do that immediately there and then when, when it's done to me. Other things,

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I think it really depends on th- the outlook of the individual that you're speaking to. Because of a lot, a lot of the time when I, when I talk to sort of senior newsroom leaders about this,

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they, it's not a surprise to them that this is the way everything is going. They have seen data for a long time that has been telling them that they are, they are hemorrhaging audiences, that they are losing,

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y- they've, they've long lost ad revenue, eyeballs, you name it. They've, they know- Mm... they've lost this previous monopoly, information monopoly that they had to social platforms.

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Um, they all res- have responded differently to sort of how they might navigate that new ecosystem.

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And then now vertical video is thrown into the mix as, as the format that they need to be doing in order to just be seen and heard. Mm-hmm. Um,

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normally I try and get an understanding from someone, what do they think about vertical video, and what do they think about journalists doing vertical video?

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And normally in, in the answers that they'll give, they will almost always reveal some biases that they have. That's what I find the most. They will either think that,

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"Oh, well, people who do this kind of thing are just, like, people trying to sell you stuff." Mm-hmm.

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Um, or they will say, "Oh, we can't make this because it's not polished enough, and the, you know, the stuff that we make has to be really polished."

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And it's very worrying when I'm being told things like that by, by people with, with power in newsrooms, because they're wrong. Um, and if they'd spent any time on social media,

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they, they wouldn't have, they wouldn't have those views. So I think, um, obviously a lot of the people in, in those higher rungs in news organizations are not spending as much time on the platforms their audiences are.

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Mm-hmm. And therefore, there, there is this disconnect. Um, I- I'm sure if I ever went back to a com- you know, a company... Not, not my own company.

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If I ever went to a, to a, to a company- If you ever took a staff role again. Yeah, if I ever took a staff role again and was there several years, I'm sure I would become institutionalized as well. So I, I...

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Before I say what I'm about to say, I'm not saying that- [laughs]... like I'm somehow immune. You know, this is something that happens to everyone. Yeah.

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But when I, um, the most shocking thing that happened when I left the BBC was how the BBC disappeared.

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So I, I went from just, you know, being totally surrounded by it, 'cause obviously when you're an employee there, you're getting all these newsletters. Mm. You'll, you'll, you're seeing your mates there.

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You're hearing about all these things. You're seeing all these things. And then I left, and all of a sudden I stopped seeing the BBC anywhere.

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And when, when you're in an organization like that and, and you, you really believe in its mission, as I, as I continue to do, and then you realize, oh, wow.

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Like, I, I believe this organization is very important, however, it's obviously struggling in the- Mm-hmm... in the information environment we now find ourselves in. It's hard to see past- So-...

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the tip of your nose when you're, when you're within such an organization. Yeah. And so sometimes when I'm brought in and to do kind of cultural change work- Mm... or, or give, give advice, um, that's connected to that,

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um, I will often have to try and figure out are, are they aware? Are they conscious of where they now stand in the pecking order? Mm-hmm.

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And if they are v- belligerent that they're still sort of-Um, oh yeah, everyone wants to read us. Everyone wants to watch us. If, if they still think like that, um- Maybe not gonna fit...

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vertical video isn't gonna be- Yeah... vertical video isn't gonna be their only problem, yeah. [laughs] Uh, let- let's talk about when you do that kind of work. So Viralect is your consulting vehicle, right?

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Um, I know that some of the primary offerings you have are audience needs analyses and social media audits. Uh, tell me more about what you offer and how, um, w- who, who you work with, I suppose, to start.

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You don't have to name specific clients if, if that's not possible, but the type of organizations that you work with. Yeah. It's, it's really been a mix.

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I mean, it tends to be either newsrooms or companies that have, or organizations that have i- information as sort of a, a core remit of theirs. Mm-hmm. I've worked a fair bit with, with, um, research bodies.

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I've worked a fair bit with companies with whom, for whom in- information sharing, you know, is very important to them. Mm-hmm. And well, which is probably pretty much every, every company these days.

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[laughs] Every business is a media business, they say. Yeah, every, everyone's a publisher, right? Mm-hmm. So, um, it's a lot of different people and of course individuals. So I've done a lot of- Mm...

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consulting for individuals that this year have... I've consulted a famous chef. I've consulted, um, an up-and-coming famous human rights lawyer.

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You know, there, there are so many different people who wanna get their- Mm-hmm... their work heard about, uh, and, and make an impact with what they're doing, um, by amplifying their work on vertical video. Mm-hmm.

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And what I will do when I, when I'm working with someone new is I need to get an understanding of, of where they sit in the social media ecosystem, and then how they can make content that would best serve their target audiences.

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So the, the different things that I do are all part of how I try and map out this landscape to figure out where they need to go. Um, are there content gaps- Mm... that they can help fill?

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Are they going into a really oversaturated content space where there's a pressure to be distinctive? Are they going into a content space where actually they'd be sort of the first of their kind? And it...

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All, all of those different learnings help inform the, the strategy that I would give someone. Mm-hmm.

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And some people, some people come to me already very expert in vertical video, and other people, uh, and organizations may want training either for themselves or staff that they manage, uh, to understand how to do it long term and then it doesn't only become a question of, you know, how do I best serve my audience.

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It becomes also a question of how do I manage time for this. Mm-hmm. Boring company things like workflows, how do we get a good workflow design for this because it's not currently working, we have a bottleneck.

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You know, um, issues like that that crop up a lot in video teams. Um, and how to make it sustainable. How, how can I have a constant flow of ideas- Mm...

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and make this content in a way that doesn't drive me crazy every week? Uh, otherwise, you know, that's not a sustainable content strategy. So those, those are the kinds of things that, that I help out with. Mm.

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And of course I specialize in vertical video, but, um, I will give strategy advice around different platforms and different strategies for different platforms. They're all very bespoke. So- Mm-hmm...

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um, you will rarely see me making one-size-fits-all content because I generally speaking don't believe in it. Um, the different platforms need different strategies. I wonder if...

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I mean, you, you said it's all bespoke and there is no one-size-fits-all, but I wonder if you've seen patterns among clients of th- like, something that might be a challenge for them that is almost self-imposed, like the, you know, holding the, the boot on their own head somewhat in terms of like this, this is so obvious for so many clients, and all it takes is you coming in, pointing it out, and saying, "Oh, no," like, clearly there's just nobody doing this format in, in your industry, in your niche, right?

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And you should just do this. Um, I, I don't know if, if that is possible to... if you have found those patterns.

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But like challenges that your clients have that are actually not quite challenging at all and you just need to come in and be like, "Actually, you just do this. It's quite simple." A, a common one will be that they

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haven't got a niche and can't see one. Mm. And sometimes they just need an external person to come along and say to them like, "I think this would be a good niche." Yeah. Or, "It feels like you're leaning towards this."

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Um, and I completely understand that because for probably still the majority of my content career, I was far... You know, I began and was far more generalist than I am now. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's nice to be a generalist.

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It's, you can, um... Obviously, the, the world's your oyster in terms of what you make a video about today, which is a very nice feeling to have.

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Unfortunately, the way social media platforms work and the way that they will, will categorize you on a recommendation algorithm to best serve these hungry audiences they have who've told them the niches they like to look at via their viewing habits,

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I always advise that it's, it's best to kind of i- to guide somewhere towards a niche. Mm. Loads of niches, including my own, which is now very much connected to language and languages, can be big. Mm.

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Like, within language, how many different subjects can I talk about? How many different languages can I talk about? Like, I, I don't feel remotely niche, you, i- in, in many ways. But people have...

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It's been very helpful that people have been able to get to know me for that, that one connection- Mm-hmm... um, and content theme that I have.

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So-Uh, sometimes people who are, you know, naturally multi-talented, multi-faceted, they think that they can make content about 10 things, and I try and say to them, "How about three things- Yeah...

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that are all united by this one common theme?" Yeah. [laughs] Mm-hmm. The thing that you always come back to. Um, I, I do wanna talk about your own, your own content for a little bit here.

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So you have right now just under a million, uh, followers across platforms. I wrote this down last night. You've... We're, we're recording early September 2025 here.

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You've got 560,000 on TikTok, 333,000 on Instagram, 42.1 on Twitter, 8.5 on LinkedIn, and 5.2 on YouTube. Surely past one million by the end of the year. Um, and you do more and more now talk about, about language.

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You've talked about sex in the past. This is the, what, the topic of your previous book. You do sometimes talk about this more meta media conversation, um, as we're having now. Um,

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you really came up on TikTok, I believe. That's where you formed the core of your audience and, and since have expanded onto the others.

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Um, what is your relationship to these platforms right now in as much as you have these sort of different niches, um, primarily language now, but you still do speak to some of these others?

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I don't stick to this rule hard and fast, but it, it's been a helpful one as I think about my content that

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the, the majority, let's say 70% of the content that I make, will be, like, a language explainer of some description- Mm... because I love making them. It's what people know me for, and they do well.

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They're, they're the bread and butter. Mm-hmm. And I have been making language explainers since the first month I started on TikTok.

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So, um, I used to put out these language explainers which were linked to my undergraduate field of study, which was languages, and I... They were...

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They're thrown into the mix with the kind of the news reporting that I had been doing that week or, like, the, the personal thing I wanted to talk about that week.

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I used to put out sort of a, a far greater mix of content 'cause it was just sort of reflecting me, the diversity of me.

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Well, let me s- let me say, just to interrupt for a second, this was also a reflection of the platforms back then, right? Like, uh, this is- Yeah... five, six years ago, however, however long ago.

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They hadn't s- they hadn't become so niche. They hadn't been so saturated. You could still do this and, and find more- Exactly... audience more quickly. Yeah. Exactly.

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And, um, there was a real nice, like, rough and ready feeling about TikTok in that earlier era- Mm... where I could just randomly do a quick trend, film it, and put it out, and that would- Mm... get good engagement.

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And, uh, what has happened is that my c- my career has developed. I have professionalized, and therefore my content has professionalized. Mm-hmm. And these platforms have become more saturated.

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You have to keep competitive. I have to make sure that my content remains interesting and e- and effective even though I have more, you know, competition for my content. And I was able to, um...

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You know, all, all this time I've always had an attitude where I'm basically on every platform 'cause I'm there to, like, check stuff out. See what works, see what doesn't. And then

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over time, I will then kind of invest further time and effort into the o- into the platforms where I- I'm the most rewarded. Mm-hmm. So I, I barely ever post on X anymore because engagement totally tanked.

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I did not like the way that the platform was going under Elon Musk, and it w- it wasn't, you know, giving me anything back anymore. Mm-hmm. So why should I be on it? Um, and I'm very happy. I've kind of...

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I haven't totally sunset it, but the sun is setting- The posts are sparse there... I would say, on it. Yeah. Yeah. Posts are sparse, and that, and that's, that's fine. It suits me. Mm-hmm. Um,

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whereas on other platforms, like I never posted really on LinkedIn, and now LinkedIn has become really important because of how many interactions it's driving at the moment. Mm.

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But equally, I'm now in a different life position. I have my own company. Uh, lead generation is now a thing. Yeah. So my priorities change, and therefore the platforms I invest time in change.

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And then I think the, the most significant thing probably f- um, that's particular to me will be that I, I did all this sort of pioneering of, um, explainers on, on TikTok- Mm...

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when other British journalists weren't doing it, and then Instagram drops Reels, and it was like, "Ah, cool. So these things I'm making here can now also go here." Mm-hmm.

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And that's what happened, and a lot of us in the news space have, have spoken about how, like, TikTok and Instagram in some ways have basically become the same. Like, they've both- Mm...

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both become these platforms where we're kind of doom scrolling or joy scrolling vertical video content. I've never heard anybody say joy scrolling. [laughs] Yeah. I... Yeah. Well, I definitely, yeah. Understood.

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I like to think... I hoped that I contribute to the joy scroll. Mm. Obviously, there are times I make serious and probably, uh, sad- Yeah... news explainers. But, um, the... Yeah. So

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they've become really similar, and it's meant that, like, the minute Instagram dropped Reels, my, my following, like, really blew up on there- Yeah...

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because I'd already learned how to make this highly engaging format on another platform, and now I could just o- kind of copy/paste. Yeah.

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Um, and because Instagram has different features and permissions around direct messages and it has Stories,

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sort of the functionality of Instagram is better for me to directly connect with people who follow me, whereas- Mm... on TikTok, that's always been way clunkier and kind of impossible. Mm.

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TikTok's more of a television, whereas, whereas Instagram's more you're sharing. Yeah.Yeah.

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So, um, because of that, it's actually become very, very useful for me, and I, I get probably act- I get far more engagement on, on my content and, and more frequent interactions with people who do follow me on Instagram than I do on TikTok, and that has been the case for some time.

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Mm. However, if I ever wanted to go live, I don't do it very often, but if I wanted to go live, I wouldn't ever dream of doing it on Instagram. Uh-huh. You know, I would only do it on TikTok. Mm.

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So these platforms still have some differences, but they are more similar now than, than they would've been, yeah, five years ago. Yeah. Um, okay. So another thing you do sometimes is a boot camp.

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I think you run this a few times a year, uh, for people to- I run Explainer boot camps, yeah. Expla- yes. Uh, tell me about this. Um, how long have you been doing it? How many times have you run it?

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Ooh, how many times have I run it? I wanna say three times- Mm... maybe four times. They last a month, and I do them for, uh, individuals mainly, so individuals- Mm... sign up to them, and I run like a, a group intake.

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Companies can book them in-house, but, um, I run the Explainer boot camps for people who really want to up their game making vertical video.

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And some of them have already given it a go and just feel like they need some structure and direct coaching. Some people do them, they've never made any video. Mm.

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And, uh, over the course of a month, someone learns how to make video in my style, and they get, um, access to a group chat with me that whole month and can ask me, you know, like- Mm...

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in theory, an infinite amount of questions.

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Um, they get access to office hours with me that I run once a week, um, you know, to discuss any like pain points or interesting themes that may have arisen from that week's challenge. Mm-hmm.

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And yeah, week one is a sort of, um,

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grounding training, I would describe it, and then se- the second, third, and fourth week are like, "You've, you've had your training, now do this challenge, then do this challenge, then do this challenge."

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And, uh, happily, we've had viral videos come out of them. We have had people tripling their followings coming out of them. Um, and what I- what's really nice is, um,

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I think, like, the vast majority of them are all still making video. Mm. You know, it has set them up for, uh, sustainable content creation.

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They're all still doing it because to do this game, you need to understand it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah. Um, so that's why, for example, I do a month rather than a week or a fortnight. Yeah.

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Because I feel like a month is, is a nice way of, um, making a big enough, like, im- imprint, um, before I disappear again. Because obviously loads of newsrooms will get me in to do sometimes,

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um, yeah, they might, they might get me in to do like a one and done training. Mm, under Viralect. And actually... Uh, under Viralect, yeah. Mm.

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And I think what's far nicer is, is working with someone longer term where I can give them feedback- Mm-hmm... and watch them improve over time. I'd m- I, you know, I much, much, much, much prefer that.

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Well, this begs the question then with Viralect, um, what's like the range of engagement you'll do? If, if it could be as little as a week, um, or as long as, as what? Yeah. Well, I have, um,

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I have, like, consulting contracts where people- Mm... can book me for a certain number of hours or, or months, um, hours or days a month on retainer. Mm-hmm.

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Uh, sometimes people might get me in to do like a vertical video workshop, and they get me in to do... I have two, three-hour ones. Like next week I'm doing two days of that. Mm.

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And, and, and then that'll be it, unless they want me to come back and do additional work for them. So it, it really varies. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I wanna talk now about Sofiana.

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So there is the boot camp, there is Viralect, and there's Sofiana, and these are all sort of different iterations with a different level of, of, of touch, I guess, um, for people who are looking to, to improve their ver- vertical video skills or, or start vertical videos at all.

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Um, the Viralect, Viralect being generally variant, more in-depth, could be a little bit, like you just said, could be much longer.

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Uh, the boot camp being this kind of, uh, always kind of the similar format it sounds like. And then Sofiana, released this summer, um, it is an app. I, I played with it yesterday. Mm.

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The core function is you put in an article, uh, it generates three hooks, more if you, if you like, and then a script version, a much shorter, about a minute, right, script version of your article.

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Uh, and then there is a, a teleprompter, uh, option, and, and you go in and you do that. Um, tell me about this.

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Tell me why this was another arm of your, your sort of educational arsenal, if you will, that you, that you wanted and needed to add.

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I know from training that I've delivered that the two biggest obstacles for journalists in making vertical video content are that they feel like they don't have enough time- Mm...

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in the working day, and they don't feel like they have the requisite video skills. Uh, and I know that because I surveyed over 100 journalists who had signed up to training of mine. Mm-hmm. And once I had that data, I

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ge- the, it be- that data began to play on my mind. So I, I had started to think about, okay, it's really... It's like, it's efficiency that they need help with- Mm... if, if it, if it's taking up too much time.

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Um, some of the other things I thought they would have a bigger problem with were far lower down the, the sort of list of concerns.

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So it was really helpful for me as, as a trainer and a, a facilitator to understand that. So I had that thought in the back of my head, and I was introducing-Uh, for example, more time management tips- Mm...

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and production tips to my training. But when generative AI, and AI in general b- began becoming more of a, a conversation topic- Mm-hmm... which was back in, I think it was 2023- Yeah...

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that when I was sort of s- getting more exposed to it here in, in the, in the British journalism scene. End of the year. I think, I think that's when ChatGPT was really released to the public, right? Ah, okay. Mm-hmm.

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Yeah. So that was the exact time where I had, I had a brainwave where I thought, "Hang on, all the videos I've been making all this time, are those videos also a proprietary training data set?"

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Um, you know, can they, can they do more for me- Mm... than just be videos? And long story short is that I tested my theory on a web-based tool, which I used a no-coding platform to build. Mm. It did work.

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I thought, "That's cool. I've built a scripting tool. Wouldn't it be nice if I didn't have to rely on a third-party tool to do it?" But I didn't know how to code. [laughs] Uh, okay.

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So I was like, "I'll park that for a bit- Mm-hmm... but I'm onto something here."

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And then by the time that year was over, so we're talking about 2024 now, by the time 2024 was over, I'd won two journalism prizes for this thing, [laughs] um, and which has become Sofianna.

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So both those prizes had grant funding attached, and Sophia, who knows nothing about coding, was able to hire a developer [laughs] and engineer to, to build the app Sofianna. Mm.

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And it launched in June, and you know, we're being used in over 100 countries around the world. Oh, wow. Uh, yeah. I haven't done any paid marketing. You know, I've just posted- Mm... I've posted about it, like,

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two or three times on my Instagram. Yeah. Posted about it a lot more on my LinkedIn where people, you know, know me for my journalism innovation work. And it's doing really well. Really happy with it. Yeah.

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Uh, a, a couple more questions about it. Um, one, you said that when you put out the survey, a lot of the worries or needs that you thought would be higher on the list were, were much lower.

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Uh, what, what were those worries that you, that, that surprised you? Um, these are also... I'm not the only person who has these preconceptions- Mm...

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'cause the other day I did a demo in a newsroom, and I asked them what they thought the obstacles were, and they all thought some of the things I had. Uh, cringe.

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I, I, I assumed that some people had a sort of great fear of cringe. Mm-hmm. And, and, you know, yes, there were survey respondents who said that, but it was by no means near the top. Um, something else.

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Oh, yeah, that their, that their, uh, bosses wouldn't let them do it. [laughs] And you know, you can predict why I thought that would be a problem. Yeah.

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[laughs] But turns out for most people, their bosses are very encouraging- Mm... for them amplifying their work on social media. So- In fact, demanding at times. Yeah. So that- Mm... again, wasn't a problem either.

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So thank goodness I did this survey because it- Mm... revealed the true reasons why only a small m- small minority today of British journalists actively, regularly make their own vertical video. Mm.

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So, um, I am gonna have a deeper, like, data dive and report- Mm... coming out about this soon. I don't know the date yet, but

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I, I think, like, an early suspicion that I have from that data, I might prove myself wrong, but this is sort of an, an early suspicion, is that, um, w- because I'm looking at British journalists,

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the BBC and the video output that they do is really quite substantial- Mm... in, um, making up what their journalists, like, amplify of themselves online. So by that, I mean

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I don't think there are many BBC journalists making their own video, amplifying their own work because they kind of think, "Oh, well, so and so is gonna make the video anyway that I will share here or there." Yeah. And,

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um, a, a l- a lot of those journalists possibly don't have video skills themselves. They will have other skills that, that are a part of their day-to-day job, and, um, that, that is a problem.

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That is as, that, that is a problem as much as the places that don't make any video. Yeah. Um, and so journalists have nothing to share because we know that algorithms prioritize individuals over brands.

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We know that there's a reason behind that. It's because audiences want individuals, not brands. Uh, individuals confer trust to brands rather than the other way- Mm... around.

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Newsroom video is so overproduced a lot of the time, and full of graphics, and is not sort of remotely organic or native to platforms. And, um, I think certainly

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any journalist who's relying on, you know, it's not only the BBC, if you're relying on it, the organization you work for to be responsible for your sort of entire video presence on the internet- Yeah...

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I worry about i- in reality, what kind of connection and community, if any, you're gonna build with people that is, like, direct between you and them, rather than this really tangential link like, "Oh, you're that person who works at this place."

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You know? Yeah. It just doesn't work. That's not how community is built on platforms. Well, there's, so there's, there's three parties here, right?

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There's the audience, there's the organization, and there's the individual. Yeah.

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Um, and, and I, I think I've seen more and more writing on, like, what is the ideal relationship here, whether or not organizations should really push...

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You know, more and more the, the answer is yes, organizations should push their, their reporters, um, their individuals, right, to, to build these independent profiles.

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Uh, New York Times has, has been doing that more with video. Um-But I think the main thing, right, is to best serve the audience, and it might weaken the position of an organization to empower their individuals.

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Maybe not. You know, there's multiple arguments here. Uh, but it's also, they don't really have any option, right? Because you're gonna get left behind if you don't do that anyways. Yeah, and I think that's ludicrous.

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When I think of when, when in-house talent blows up- Mm... on social media, the, the organization benefits massively from that. Yeah. And it-- I look at it as this very healthy sort of cross-pollination of content.

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So I, I like that newsrooms are now investing in higher production, you know, interesting explainer content that identifies the bylined reporter or, you know, op-ed writer who's done it. Mm-hmm.

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And you're, you're watching that reporter do an explainer of their work, and, um, I, I think it's great that newsrooms are making those videos. But if the journalists are not themselves,

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in the meantime, you know, they can't have one of those videos coming out every day. Yeah.

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In the meantime, if you're not doing anything to be sort of in, in regular commun-communion with, with the people who follow you and are interested in your work and amplifying your work, that's a big problem.

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Um, what happens if that newsroom makes you redundant? What happens if that newsroom has to stop operating? Yeah. You, you're-- what are you gonna have that's yours? You need your insurance. Mm-hmm. As well.

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Um, so I, I wanna, I wanna take it back to the, to the app for a second here.

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Uh, there was an article in Project C that, uh, a, a few days ago as, as, as we record, that was about the third leg of independent journalism, meaning like wh- other ways that independent journalism can be funded other than ads and subscriptions, right?

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And, uh, and your, your app was brought up as an example of this, as were some apps or, like, research products by, by other independent journalists.

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Um, my question is about any particular challenges of bringing this to market, which I understand funding was not necessarily one.

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You had the Georgina, Georgina Henry Award and, and one other award that gave you, um, the funding to produce it, I, I believe, fully. Um, besides that though- Yeah, but- What... Or, so go ahead.

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Well, imagine if I hadn't won them. You know, it still wouldn't exist. Then you wouldn't have been able to make it. So- Yeah. Yeah, so funding absolutely is a, is, is a major obstacle, and my eyes have been marked.

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Sort of the first one. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Up, up until I won those awards. So yes, you're right. [laughs] Funding.

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Uh, other obstacles, um, I met my developer, who has been really wonderful to work with, kind of by happenstance.

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There isn't a convenient place or network for people interested in journalism and the media and content creation- Mm... and, like, technologists and software developers to meet and hang out.

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So, uh, I think there is a gap there. I reckon there are loads of content creators who would love to build software- Mm... uh, and they would-- they have no idea where to start.

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They may be tempted to vibe code, which is kind of almost like what I did back when I used that no-code tool ages ago, which if, if this scene was far more immature than it is now. Yeah.

250
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But I kind of preempted vibe coding by using this third-party tool, and that's all well and good until, um, y- if you're relying on third-party tools, it's not all yours. Yes.

251
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And, and down the line, you're gonna have problems because it's not all yours, whether that's because of copyright, whether that's because of, you know, like, ownership structure and everything like that. So your, um...

252
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And, and should you have something out there and something that you are selling- Mm... that you're taking money off people that you don't have full control over, that's a whole, that's a whole other story. Yeah. So,

253
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uh, I think those are some, some major obstacles, and it's one thing having an app idea. It's another thing funding and doing not only the development, but the user testing, and I'm really lucky- Mm... that on the, um,

254
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one of the things that I won was a, a spot on the International Center for Journalists Disarming Disinformation Solutions Challenge. Very long name. Mouthful.

255
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Um, but part of that was doing a design sprint and getting lots of r- excellent advice on user testing, the kind of questions that I needed to ask, and, um, how I gather feedback, how I respond to feedback, and doing it throughout the process.

256
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And there was that this year at the International Journalism Festival in, um, Perugia, which is a really fun journalism festival,

257
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and I said to people, I posted I think on LinkedIn saying, "My tool is nearly ready-" Yeah. "... but I need to keep us- I need to keep, um, user testing it. You'll get a free Aperol Spritz if you turn up to this bar."

258
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[laughs] And, like, 30 people came, and I was like, "Oh my God." Um- [laughs] You had the whole summer video... 'cause I, I, again, I keep just thinking like, "God, you've gotta be nerdy to turn up to this."

259
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Like, I am a nerd. Uh-huh. You're my kind of person if you're a nerd, but I don't naturally assume most people are nerds. I sort of assume [laughs] that only a couple people turn up.

260
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But that was a wrong assumption to make at a journalism festival- Yeah. [laughs]... which obviously could be attended by loads of nerds. So, um- Almost exclusively. Yeah, almost exclusively.

261
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And we had a really good time, and, uh, it was wonderful getting-- It was, um, actually really nice,

262
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people giving feedback in front of each other because it was sparking conversation and interesting points, whereas I think there's a danger in user testing that you keep going to individuals and getting their feedback.

263
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And I, I learned that getting group feedback and, like, a group experience- Mm... was actually very helpful for me. So, um-Uh, I got a chance on that challenge to learn about

264
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user experience, um, simulation prototyping, user testing. Um, last year I actually also got to do a creative business accelerator, and I did it because it was, um...

265
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You had to apply to it, and if you got a place on it, you'd do it for free. It was a day a week for four months. And I was just very conscious that, as Sofiana was but a twinkle in my eye at that point- [laughs]...

266
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I, I hadn't come up with the idea. But I was really conscient- conscious that I was probably gonna start a business one day, and I, I, I thought, "I've never been taught how to, how to do that. I would love to get some,

267
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uh, professional development around it." Yeah. And, um, it was fantastic, and I appl- I ended up applying loads of those things I learned to Sofiana. So things like business accelerators and these solutions challenges,

268
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um, they were only open to me because of the kind of context in which I live and the industry I'm from. Mm-hmm. Loads of content creators have neither of those things. Yeah.

269
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Um, I do generally think that, like, content creators have a ton of opportunities in the US because you're at least five years ahead in the US compared to the UK.

270
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Do you think this is, uh, like a cultural thing with like... I mean, tall poppy syndrome is like one way of putting it, right? Huge. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. Um, absolutely. And I would love someone to explain or even speculate

271
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why the UK, we are actually, like, really quite backwards when it comes to video adoption as a market- Hmm... in terms of how we consume content.

272
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A lot of markets around the world are a, are way ahead of us in video consumption. So I'm not talking about, like, makers, I'm talking about audiences. Yeah.

273
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And, um, on the one hand, I think it's like a good, really good thing that loads of us in the UK still love reading. Absolutely. You know, I'm a content creator, I'm also an author. Mm-hmm.

274
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Like, I want people still reading. But, um, I think the fact that, that video adoption is lower here,

275
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there must be a relationship to a general kind of, um, often a sort of disregard for it in the traditional media world. Yeah.

276
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And- I wonder, I mean, the UK I think, I'm, I'm very much generalizing here, but I would say the UK seems to like institutions more than America, right? There's such...

277
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Maybe this is, like, a global anti-institution sentiment, but I certainly think we're in the middle of a very intensely an- anti-institution moment in the US.

278
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But my impression is that the UK still much more prizes its institutions. Yeah. Mm. I, I, I think that's true. I think that we are, um... We also have class problems. Yeah.

279
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And I don't know how that loops in as well, but I'm confident it will somehow. Mm-hmm.

280
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Uh, tall poppy syndrome and the fact that this is such a personalized format, we're putting ourselves on camera, lots of people don't like that. I'm sure lots of people thought, "Look at Sophia.

281
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Isn't she big for her boots making-" [laughs] Yeah... "this video content?" Rather than me being like, "But this is how everyone my age speaks to each other." Mm-hmm. We're all doing it- It'll soon be dated...

282
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actually, not only no matter where we come from or, or what we've done, but, like, that's kind of the point- Hmm...

283
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that the reason we're having so much fun on these platforms is because we're seeing people like us, and we're seeing people just be normal. We're not having all, all this, like, patrician- Yeah...

284
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down-facing content that you've been giving to us this whole time. Um, so there's, there's something in that, and I haven't yet gotten to a space where I feel confident I can unpack it- Damn interesting. Yeah...

285
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but I'm very curious about it. Mm-hmm. Um, okay, you were saying a few minutes ago how you were taking this business accelerator, thinking about, you know, someday you wanted to have your own business.

286
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You certainly do have a business now, a lot of different arms. Um, and I...

287
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You don't need to tell me how much money you're making, but I'm interested to learn about the revenue pie and approximations of, like, this part of my, of my work makes up this much of my living, this, you know, et cetera.

288
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Um, so what are the different... You've got Virelect, you've got Sofiana, you've got freelance writing, you've got the, the books. What are all the different things you currently do to make a living?

289
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I kind of look at my life as generally 50/50 between- Hmm... Virelect. I basically, I look at, I, I feel like I run two businesses. Mm-hmm. One is Virelect, which that includes Sofiana, and it includes- Yeah...

290
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like, all of the consulting that I do, the boot camps, et cetera, that you've described. And then the other half is, like, Sophia Smith Galer the business. Yes. So it's my content, my writing, my presenting.

291
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It comes under me as the product as opposed to Virelect as the product. As opposed to services. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And income, I think they're pretty 50/50 between the two.

292
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There are-- I think it's important to say that there are-- I'm, I'm in the really fortunate position where I, I love everything that I do.

293
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The whole point that I, I left staff journalism was because I sort of hoped and sensed there was a really creative portfolio waiting for me- Mm-hmm...

294
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if I just took the plunge, and that this community I'd been building on social media all this time w- would open up other revenue streams.

295
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For example, brand partnerships that I obviously couldn't do while I was a staff journalist. And I was right. So yeah, brand partnerships would come under the Sophia Smith Galer- Hmm. Yeah... business.And I,

296
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as, as a creative and a journalist, you know, neither creatives nor journalists are well-paid in the UK. [laughs] Um, happily, content creation is lucrative, especially if you've built a following. Mm-hmm.

297
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But freelance journalism rates have not changed in the last 20 years. Uh, if you wanted to make money, you would not become a freelance journalist. Um, and similarly, there are loads of things that I do not, not because,

298
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um, they're gonna make me loads of money, but I do them because I think they're important to do. Yeah. Uh, and

299
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h- I, what I, I hope I have designed and will continue to try and design for myself is this, is this, um, like working life where I do lo- everything I do is interesting.

300
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Some of those things are more sort of creatively fulfilling than others. Mm-hmm. You know, I will say that. But the, the highly paid thing I get to do here helps me do the less paid thing here. Yeah.

301
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I do loads of projects that I don't get paid for at all. You know, I, I do pro bono stuff, and God, I would nev- I would never be able to do pro bono stuff if I had stayed as a staff journalist. Yeah.

302
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Like, it's, it's great, it's great that I, I can now, like, do things like that. It's, um, really nice having working days that are different one to the next and that I can control.

303
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The downside is I find it very hard to say no to things. Yeah. Um, and, you know, I need to be offered almost more boring things so that I can say no a bit more.

304
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The problem is I get asked to do things all the time that are like, "Cool. That's cool. Yes, maybe I can find a slither of time [laughs] to, to do it in."

305
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Um, but yeah, so it's, it's roughly, like, 50/50 between those two bits of my business, but- Mm-hmm. Um, oh, yeah. The, sorry, the last point was just that some things I do are... It's not 50/50 time,

306
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if that makes sense. Oh. Mm-hmm. Totally. So, um, you know, you can make a vid- a video for a brand partnership that

307
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th- you've put loads of time in building your following, but that, like, one-time fee you're gonna get f- from it- Yeah... is great. Um,

308
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and on the other hand, I can be working on, like, a series or an investigation for a really long time, n- not make nearly, you know, the same amount of money, but I've put in way more time. Yeah.

309
00:57:23.036 --> 00:57:34.476
And again, that's reflective of the fact that I am in these different, um, industries. Like, the work that I do spans, now it spans journalism, content creation, consulting.

310
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And people earn money in different ways across all of those things, and therefore, so do I. Do you think- So just because- Wait, mm-hmm...

311
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my income is like 50/50 doesn't mean I spend 50% of my time doing Viralect and 50% of my time doing Sophia Smith Galer stuff. It's often more uneven. Yeah. There's a...

312
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Okay, so that [laughs] that actually is exactly the kind of question, um, I, I, I wanted to ask, which is, what is the dream scenario? Whether it's, whether it's time or income, it, it's...

313
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I don't really know if [laughs] there's a good answer to this, but let's say two, three years from now, where would you most want most of your income to be coming from and most of your time to be spent, right? Mm-hmm.

314
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And maybe it's like there's a difference between what you would most desire and what is most likely and realistic, and I'll, I'll let you choose where on the pragmatism to, to, to dreamer spectrum [laughs] you wanna la- land that answer.

315
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So goals of mine include hiring people. Hmm. Um- People that would perhaps help you lead th- these boot camps or help you be more efficient in, in, in longer term consulting roles. Yeah. Um,

316
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I would like to sort of consolidate some of my creator work under a brand that sort of isn't only me- Hmm... but is- Oh, interesting... um- Let's call it a publication. Y- yeah.

317
00:59:02.396 --> 00:59:13.956
I don't know if it would be a publication, but that's, that's what I mean, something that... Yeah, it's something that I make. So rather than me just kind of generally speaking about the content that I do,

318
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it can be slightly more focused into, into something. Um- Such that maybe, maybe, like, an example of this would be people, native speakers of some of the marginalized languages you, you, you cover, right?

319
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It's like getting people who speak those languages to, to produce content for this broader publication and platform. Is it something like that? No.

320
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It would never be, it would never be something that other people would do. Hmm. It would still just be, like, my content, but, um- But not your name as the headline. Yeah.

321
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Like, I think if you look in the US and you look at my counterparts, which are people like Dave Jorgensen, Cleo Abram, they now have YouTube shows that are not their names. You know, they will have their own- Yeah.

322
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Mm-hmm. Totally... distinctive titling and branding, and that's never been something that I've done, but I, I think about should that be something that I, that I do. Do I keep it all just Sophia Smith Galer? Um,

323
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I, a big goal would be creating my own four-day working week rather than- Hmm... the six to seven-day working week that I'm currently doing. [laughs] Yes. Mm-hmm.

324
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Um, my, my ongoing challenge, which I just, I don't know if I will ever solve it, but when you work for lots of different people, you know, they have all of their own schedules and timetables,

325
01:00:33.936 --> 01:00:44.456
and I kind of have to adapt to all of them rather than forcing them to adapt to mine. Yeah. It's very difficult. I think anyone who offers services as part of what they do, that's, that's the reality, and I don't,

326
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um, I don't yet know what the answer is to figuring that out.Stay tuned. [laughs] Um, last, the last question kind of on the same topic.

327
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Uh, let's say your business, businesses are humming along happily, um, at the state they are now, even better.

328
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Uh, but some offer comes in from some company, whether it's a news organization or, or whatever, I don't know, some staff position where you would have to put all this on pause, shelf it for some time.

329
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Is there anything that would tempt you to do that? Any sort of work that you couldn't necessarily do on your own and would have to be part of a larger organization to do?

330
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Is there anything that could tempt you away from continuing to build this?

331
01:01:26.060 --> 01:01:42.420
So I met someone this month who I was really surprised to learn has been able to continue, you know, running, uh, presumably on the side, a startup following her getting a role at a, a major- Mm. -organization.

332
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And when she told me that, I thought, "Oh, so in theory, someone would let me keep doing Sofiana even though I, I work for them."

333
01:01:50.780 --> 01:02:07.550
Um, and yeah, if that arrangement in theory exists, then obviously I would be more amenable to it. Um, at this stage in my career, I-- So I'm gonna give an answer now very open to it might change rapidly- [laughs] Yeah.

334
01:02:07.550 --> 01:02:19.040
-or it might change, you know. In a year's time, I might think the opposite. I don't know. But currently where I'm standing, um, the f- the actual... There are two things it would need to do.

335
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It would need to pay me more than what- Mm. -I am earning independently. I am not sure how many... It, it sort of depends on what, what the job is that I, I, I'm being approached to do. Yeah.

336
01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:48.330
Um, but I know what British journalism pays, for example, and I, I don't know if they would be able to meet that. Um- Well, let's say it's like a- But let's say it wasn't journalism. Oh, yeah.

337
01:02:48.380 --> 01:03:02.280
Let's say it was a different industry, then maybe if... So they would not only have to beat what I'm earning by myself and sort of not tell me to, like, mothball every single thing I've been working on all this time.

338
01:03:02.690 --> 01:03:13.680
Yeah. Which if they wanted me, they shouldn't really because it's pa- it goes back to this whole, like, cross-pollination of how- One hundred percent, yeah. If things are doing well, you wanna be associated with them.

339
01:03:13.740 --> 01:03:26.780
You don't wanna shut them down. Yeah. Um, and the third thing is it would have to be a role where I, I really felt like it enabled me to make a, a positive impact- Mm-hmm.

340
01:03:26.929 --> 01:03:37.800
-and ge-gave me, like, power in a way that I don't currently hold it. Mm-hmm. To affect- So- -the distribution of information that you think the world needs, perhaps. Yeah.

341
01:03:37.940 --> 01:03:49.180
It would have to have some kind of, like, power or, or influence that, um, I can't do by myself. Mm. And that's been a, that's a massive... You know, there are so many positives

342
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be- um, of doing what it is that I do and, like, what a lot of people like me are doing. Um, but one of the major cons is how lonely it is and how- Yeah. -you're not in a team, and you're not...

343
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All the learning that I do at these, like, opportunities that I try and, like, grab here and there is in learning from others. You know, I, I have to, like, go out searching for them.

344
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And the, the thing I loved at the BBC and Advice was that I could be sat next to someone with decades of experience- Mm-hmm. -and, and learn something that day by, like, osmosis 'cause we were- Yes. Mm-hmm.

345
01:04:23.110 --> 01:04:32.180
-doing something together. I loved that feeling. And so that, that would be very appealing to me as well because I do not get that by myself. Um,

346
01:04:33.100 --> 01:04:47.120
so it's not a, "No way, I would never work for [laughs] anyone ever again." [laughs] It's not that at all. Yeah, no. Um, but it's, um... I think I've, I've really recognized I ha- I have a lot to give.

347
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Um, I have been able to be incredibly influential in the industry that I am in, and, um, I want to keep being influential in it. And f- up until now, I've basically done that pretty much unsupported.

348
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And, uh, if someone wants to come in, they, they have to, like, they have to give me the sort of requisite seniority- Yeah. -that that demands. One hundred percent. Um, I think we'll stop it there.

349
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The last thing, uh, listener, download Sofiana. Uh, it's free to use at first, and then I believe it costs six dollars a month, thirty dollars for six months, or fifty dollars a year. Did you play with it? I did, yeah.

350
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I- Did you give it a go? I, I have. I, I need to make a video and publish it. This is... I mean, look, I, I'm as guilty of this as anybody. I do the long form, um, and will cut up little clips sometimes.

351
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But I know I need to sit down and translate these things and some of the, the, the non-interview work I do, uh, into short-form video. So yeah, it w- it was good. It was a good hook. It- I, I, I...

352
01:05:49.090 --> 01:06:02.490
Here's one thing I'll say about it is, like, playing with it- Yeah. -it felt a little bit like, um, like what it does is not rocket science. What it does, I felt like I was a child on, on a bike, right?

353
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And your, your parents are teaching you how to ride a bike, and they've got...

354
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You're no long- no longer have trailing, uh, training wheels, but they've got their hands on your shoulders, and you're biking, and then they let go, and you're going.

355
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That's sort of the function it has is, like, to just, like, give the nervous, skeptical journalist that literally just that little push of like, "Nope, here's the hook. Here's the script, and now here's the camera.

356
01:06:23.140 --> 01:06:30.290
Say it quick." And, and then there you have it. Just music to my ears 'cause that's completely the intention. Yeah.

357
01:06:30.290 --> 01:06:39.460
I learnt in my, you know, having done consulting for some time now, I'm a critical friend, you know this phrase? But- Yeah. -I'm just your critical friend, you know. [laughs] "Hey, bestie.

358
01:06:40.010 --> 01:06:52.940
I'm, I'm here to give you some tips- Yeah. -and push you- Some tough love. -where I think I..." Mm-hmm. Tough love, but I'm not, I'm not, um, changing you. Yeah. Uh, I'm just giving you that little bit of support.

359
01:06:52.960 --> 01:07:04.720
Um- I'm pulling out the best of you. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Uh, cool. Well, download Sofiana. Um, and Sophia, thank you for coming on. Oh, thank you for having me. Of course. Listener, we'll see you next week.

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