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I'm so passionate about YouTube. Truly think there's, like, a niche for everything, especially if you're talking about, like, making a living and making a good business. Like, you can definitely do that.

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What are your core rules or core philosophies that you bring to this work? The one thing that you cannot teach is intuition.

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The technical stuff you can always add in and learn how to, like, rotoscope and After Effects and all that stuff, but the intuition is, like, the core part.

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What is the specific challenge of how you approach a given video? I think there's two types of creativity. There's, like- Hmm...

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creativity where you start with something and you mold it into something else, and then there's creativity where you have a blank sheet of paper and you can just- Yeah... ideate.

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But I'd love to hear, like, a range of fees that you charge for your services and what those services would look like. It really depends on, like, how much creativity I'm injecting into it, if that makes sense.

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Is this, for example, a six-figure business? Yes. Welcome back to the Creative Spotlight Podcast. My name is Francis Zier, and today we're speaking with Rachel Kisela.

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Rachel is a YouTube video editor and creative consultant who's been working in the industry for a little under six years. Her videos that she's worked on over the course of her career total multiple billions of views.

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Um, she went and spent a year working as a lead video editor at the MrBeast organization, and she is the founder of Edit Hers, a first-of-its-kind community for female YouTube video editors. Great conversation.

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I enjoyed it. I think you will too. Tell me about your general approach to YouTube video editing. Like, what are your core rules or core philosophies that you bring to this work?

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So I always tell people the one thing that you cannot teach is intuition and, like, decades of obsessive chronically online content consumption [laughs] which I have engaged in over time- [laughs]...

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and it gives you, like, such an intuition for what feels right in terms of- Yeah... like, pacing and things like that. So sometimes I talk to people, they're like, "Oh, your job sounds really fun."

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I'm like, "Well, if you are, like, chronically online, and you know all the creators, and you have a good intuition for, like, what's funny and, like, a good- Yeah...

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sense of humor, you already have something that you can't teach to other editors."

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The technical stuff you can always add in and learn how to, like, rotoscope and After Effects and all that stuff, but the intuition is, like, the core part, and genuinely, like, loving YouTube. Mm-hmm.

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Like, I've loved YouTube my whole life. I've always believed in it as, like, the number one form of media consumption, the future of media. Well, you're talking about- And- You're talking about taste.

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You're talking about, like... I mean, you're... I, I don't know exactly how old you are. You're, I think you're s- in your mid-20s somewhere, so it's like you've been...

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A- as soon as you started, like, being conscious, uh- Yeah... probably around the time you started, like, kindergarten I bet was when YouTube came out, right? Like- Yeah...

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so it's, like, it's been your dominant mode of media consumption for your entire life. Absolutely. I think I grew up in, like... I'm 26. I think I grew up- Mm-hmm...

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in, like, the perfect time where, like, the industry kind of developed as I was getting older. Yeah. And, like, when I was in high school, I was doing what I do now. Like, I was editing videos to make my class laugh.

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Hmm. And I remember I had a teacher in my English class. One time she, like, pulled me aside and she was like, "Rachel, you're really good at this. I think that this is something that you should pursue." That's awesome.

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And she, like, seriously pulled me aside, and I was like, "Yeah, yeah." Like, "What does that even mean? Like, how do I pursue that? Like, I need to get a serious job," and all this stuff.

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So we can talk about it later, but that's how I ended up going down, like, the documentary route, which I still love- Okay... 'cause it felt like a serious job.

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But also I think the industry has kind of, like, matured and developed as I've gotten older, and I've, I've just kinda, like, fell into it and I was like, "Oh, this is, like, a viable career path," kind of like- Mm-hmm...

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just as that timing worked out for me and my life. Yeah. Well, tell me about the relationship between, like, personal taste and, and algorithm, right?

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'Cause I think there's so much advice about, like, y- hewing to the algorithm and, like, you know, title and thumbnail metas and such, and that, that's all been really well tread and, uh, maybe, maybe there's some, you know, more recent trends and updates on that you could share.

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But tell me about the relationship in your work between... Like, you're established. You're telling me that you are very taste driven and you have this intuition. Um, but how do you, like,

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m- mesh that with, like, the algorithmic needs of this work? That's a good question. I guess, like... I guess my taste has developed from what floated to the top of the algorithm always. Hmm.

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So in that sense I feel like- That's a good point... uh, yeah, but also I always think about how huge YouTube is. Like, it's almost, like, unimaginably huge, and there's, like, a niche for everything, and, like,

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all the ru- typical retention rules that we follow now and I follow in a lot of my own work- Mm-hmm...

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like, I grew up watching Trisha Paytas go grocery shopping with no edits for 45 minutes straight [both laughs] and, like, ate it up. Yeah. So i- the...

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and she's just, like, yeah, she's just, like, such a mainstay I guess in, like, YouTube culture, and she just didn't follow any rules at all. So YouTube is so huge.

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I truly think there's, like, a niche for everything, especially if you're talking about, like, making a living and making a good business. Like, you can definitely do that with, with anything.

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There's a community for every niche interest. So- Yeah... um, there's that aspect of it. But also, like, I do think that my intuition is, like, a pr- also a product of the algorithm, you know? Yeah.

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No, that, that's a really good point.

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Um, okay, let's talk about the chall- like, the challenge of approaching a specific video, and, and I'll, I'll frame what I mean by saying, like, the way that I approach maybe an essay I'm gonna write.

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Let's say it's, it's, um...

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I don't write the profile pieces for the newsletter right now, uh, Natalia, our assistant editor, does, but when I was doing that it's like, okay, I've got the, you know, hours of notes and research I did and all these links I can refer back to.

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I've got the actual interview I did, and, like, that's in my mind. I've got the transcript from that interview which has all these quotes I wanna go in and grab.

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And then I'm sitting down with all that, and it's like, okay, I think I know, like, the, like, two or three main points or themes I wanna hit in this essay, and it's gonna be about 1,000 words, and I've got this 40,000-word transcript, whatever.

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And it's, like, the battle of sitting down and, like, starting, like, trying to write a hook and being like, ah, maybe that's the one, but okay, I gotta just keep going.

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And, and then writing the thing and reshaping and reshaping. Um, so in that context-What is, like, the sp- the specific challenge of how you approach a given video?

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Like, what is the average project you're working on, how do you approach it? So I definitely like to start by knowing the title and thumbnail, and most creators at a certain level have that, like, right off the bat.

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Like, before they film the video, that's how they kinda, like, figure out their good vi- video ideas based on what's clickable.

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So I love knowing that and knowing, like, what words to even emphasize in the intro, maybe- Mm-hmm... with like captions and stuff to kind of like drive that home.

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Whatever information the viewer had to click on is what I want to emphasize and gear the whole video towards. Mm-hmm.

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Um- And wait, so really quick, usually a creator you're working with, they've already esta- You- you're not really gonna be involved in the title and thumbnail. Yeah. They're, they're giving that to you already.

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Yeah, exactly. Um, so I love starting with that. I feel very aimless if I do not know the title and thumbnail going into a video- Mm-hmm... especially if it's a creator that really wants to optimize for retention.

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Um, so that is definitely, like, the main thing that I like to start with. Also, like, knowing, I always like knowing, like, what is the reason that somebody would wanna watch all the way through- Mm-hmm...

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and what are ways we can visually emphasize that, whether it's, like, a graphic that shows progression or, um, things changing over time.

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Like, I always think of, uh, I mean, this isn't really a graphic, but I, I think of, like, Safiya Nygaard's videos that got, like, so many views of her mixing like 1,000 lipstick flavors together.

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[laughs] And it's like you wanna stay till the end to see what color it's going to be. So, like, that's your main thing that's gonna keep somebody watching all the way through.

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So, like, reminders of like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be the craziest color at the end. Like, reminders of, like, why somebody would wanna, wanna watch all the way through- Mm-hmm... is really good to keep in mind.

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And also, like, keep in mind for maybe we need to add a little bit of VO at a certain part.

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Like, that's one of the things I love about being a YouTube editor, and also, like, my clients are so great giving me, like, a lot of creative control.

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Like, if I think, "Okay, we're kinda losing the plot of, like, the focus of the video at this point- Mm...

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maybe we should add a little voiceover that emphasizes a certain aspect or ties it back to the title and thumbnail," like, they're really open to my feedback on that, which is really great.

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But that's kind of the information that I like to have going into it. And it's really interesting also talking about, like, being creative assembling things because- Mm...

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I mean, this is just a side note, but I was thinking about this recently. I think there's two types of creativity. There's, like, creativity- Mm...

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where you start with something and you mold it into something else, and then there's creativity where you have a blank sheet of paper and you can just- Yeah... ideate.

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And, like, I feel like I used to [laughs] have that skill, and now as I've, like, dived so much into editing, I'm so, like, I, I can see, like, a block of marble and see how I'm gonna shape it into- Yes...

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what I want it to be. But if you just, like, start me with a blank sheet of paper, I'm like, "Uh, what do I do?"

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And so, like, as I've developed my editing, I've become more in awe of, like, producers and people who are ideating and writers who can just start from nothing, 'cause they're two very different types of creativity- Exactly...

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in my opinion. I- I love having, like, all the building blocks- Mm... and then being like, "Okay, what can I do with this?" I r- I really relate to that.

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Like, right after I graduated college, I, I ostensibly wanted to do some kind of writing, but I, I couldn't figure out how to make myself write without, like, a prompt that a teacher had given me, and I started painting- Wow...

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'cause, like, with painting you could just make a mark on the page and then react to that and react to that and react to that. Oh, wow.

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Um, it took me a long time to be, to figure out how to, like, push myself to, to, like, to do that same thing with writing.

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Um, but I, the, the marble metaphor, I, is, is one I really like where, you know, there's something in there and it's just about chipping bits off and, and, and polishing it. Uh- Exactly... I really relate to that.

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Um, okay, I wanna talk for a little bit not just about the, the creative act itself- Mm... but the market of it. So, um, how, I, I don't know if you have a universal fee you give people.

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I'm sure you don't, so I don't, you don't have to give, like, the most specific numbers, um, if you're not comfortable, but I'd love to hear, like, a kind of range of prices that you charge, a range of fees that you charge for your services and what those services would look like.

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Um, okay. I think it depends on so many things. It depends from project to project. And also- And I wanna know these factors, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. So

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there's also, it's really interesting also, obviously see- talking to people at EditHers- Mm-hmm... there's such a range of, like, of ways that people charge. Mm. It's really like the Wild West.

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Like, I think in traditional a lot of editors do, like, a daily rate. Um, uh, I think in the YouTube world a lot of people do per project, and I have- Mm... specific issues with that. I prefer to charge hourly.

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Um- Hmm... and it really depends on, like, how much creativity I'm injecting into it, if that makes sense.

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If it's just execution, it takes less of my creative brain and I can almost use it as, like, a recharging activity for the edits that require, like, a lot of assembly and post-production to figure out. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah.

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So I, I, I'll get into it too, but I do a lot of other things besides editing, and I love- Yes...

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charging hourly because it allows me to, like, structure my day and fill it with, like, maybe five different things and not spend the entire day on editing and charge a day rate. Hmm.

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But the interesting thing I find about per project, a- a- and the, the common complaint from the creator end on hourly is like, "Oh, well, aren't you incentivized to take longer to finish the video?"

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Like- I will say w- when I've been a freelancer, I really like project rates because that gives me, like, something to race against, and I don't think it lowers my quality.

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But, like, I like having, like, the defined thing where then it's like a race against time, where then if I go over a certain amount of hours in a project, then my hourly rate is going down, right? Right.

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Okay, so that's what, I'm like, if you charge per project, aren't you incentivized to just, like, speed through it and not necessarily, like- Hmm... spend a lot of time making it great? Um, that's how I think of it.

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But then also, um, it, the, the challenge with hourly is, like, you don't wanna hit a client with a huge invoice that they weren't expecting. Yeah. Especially with editing, it's so time-consuming.

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You could say an hourly rate, and the client might just have no idea how long that's gonna take.

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So what I do is when I go to a client with a first project, I look at-I, I really look at, okay, how many hours of raw footage are you handing me? How much- Yeah... scripting is done ahead of time?

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Are you handing me assets? Um, do you have a general idea for this video, or are you just like, "Editor, figure it out"? So then I take all that information, and I also look, like, okay, what styles do you like?

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What are some style references that I can see? Like, I could spend two hours on a minute of video, or I could spend- Hm... two minutes on a minute of video. It just depends on what you want.

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So then I'll take all that information and say, "Okay, I think this project is going to take me, for example, no longer than 20 hours. So I- on this first project, we're gonna do an hourly invoice.

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If we go over 20 hours, that's totally on me. I will not cap... I will cap my invoice at 20 hours." Okay. "And that's on me."

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And then if it ends up taking me, like, 40 hours, that's a conversation that we can have if we wanna work together more moving forward.

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But that's a way that I kind of balance, like, me feeling like I'm being compensated for the time. Hm.

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And especially once it gets in the notes process, that's where it can really, you can feel scope creep, where they're just like, "And this, and this, and this."

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So that is definitely a challenge is, like, battling scope creep, which happens all of the time. It's- Yeah... it's happened to me throughout my career. So hourly is a way to balance that.

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But also that first project, capping the invoice and saying, "You're not going to get an invoice over this amount," I feel like- Well, wait.

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So, uh, uh, crucial to say is, like, I know that, uh, probably you tend to work with clients on long-term basis, so it sounds like what you're saying is, like, y- like you said, first project.

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This is, like, when you're first trying to work with someone- Exactly... you're establishing the relationship.

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It's like you wanna make sure that everyone is get- that, that they're getting the best deal possible and kind of getting a sample of your work, because then afterwards it's like, okay, we've established how we work together, and, like, now I know how to properly price you, and now we can, like, have a more, like, um, you know, properly scoped fee going forward.

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Exactly. And also I can show them, like, this is what I'm capable of. Like, if you wanna work with me, like, this is what your projects are gonna look like, which is really great to be able to show them that. Mm-hmm.

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You know? Yeah. How many, um, how many client, ongoing clients do you have right now? So I have a TikToker named Bunny Hedaya. Mm. I work with her. I shoot and edit and kind of produce.

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I, like, do a lot of stuff for her, but I've been- Yeah... I can tell the story of working with her 'cause it's really cool.

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But I've been working with her for, I think, about four years now, before I started working at Beast. Hm.

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And then, um, my other main client is Hopescope on YouTube, which I love them so much, and they're doing so well right now. Um, both very just, like, girly content. Mm-hmm.

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And then I do some client, like, corporate work on the side, and then I'll do, like, one-off projects here and there.

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Like, I get a lot of people coming into my inbox, and a lot of them, like, the recurring stuff I don't have the time to take on. But if somebody's like...

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I'm working with somebody now who's just like, "Hey, this video's, like, 90% done. Can you, like- Yeah... take the last 10%?" I'm like, "Yeah, that'll take me, like, a couple days." So yeah, that's, that's fun.

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So I take those things, like, occasionally when I'm bored. I like to stay very busy, so. But that's kind of, like, my main recurring stuff. And I love having, like, recurring clients that I work with long-term.

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Like, these, Hopescope and Bunny, like, I love them so much. Hm. They would have to, like, drag me kicking and screaming out the doors [laughs] to get me to stop editing their videos. Like, I love it so much.

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I, I'm so passionate about their content and their mission, so. Mm-hmm. That's been fun. Um, okay, I wanna back into this a, a little bit, into, into what your, what your business is.

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And, uh, y- you don't have to tell me, like, you know, what, what was on the tax return last year. But is this, for example, a six-figure business? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, okay. Oh.

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Everything I do together is a six-figure business. Well- Yes. What is... What... Okay, uh, so break down your overall revenue, the 100% pie. How much... Like, w- what percentage is editing?

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What percentage is other X, Z, X, Y, Z? Um, yeah, break down your overall revenue pie for me. Okay. I would say 60 to 70% of my revenue is actual editing. Hm.

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Then maybe 10% is speaking stuff and, like, workshop stuff, which I've been getting into lately, which is really fun for me, 'cause I love... Like, so many people hate editing, and I like it.

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[laughs] So I like getting other people excited about it- Yeah... or making their lives a little bit easier. Um, so that's really fun.

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And then I run a business on Etsy making disco ball lamps, [laughs] and that's my last, like- Oh, I didn't find this... and that's my last 30%, is my disco ball lamps.

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And I'm about to start another Etsy business that's, uh, bibs for brides at their wedding so they don't spill their food on their white dress. This...

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Wait, okay, if, if, if this disco ball business is about 30% of your overall revenue, you're making o- over $100,000. This is a thriving business. [laughs] That's wild. The, the disco ball lamps are really fun.

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So I spend all day editing, and then I sit down to watch YouTube and I make a disco ball lamp. That's- So. Mm. The- That's my day... such multitasking. You're, you're studying the craft. You're crafting the lamps.

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[laughs] It's YouTube non-stop, and then I scroll TikTok to fall asleep, so. Hm, okay. It's non-stop. That's... I... That's insane, because I, I, I have to stop mys- I don't do TikTok.

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I long ago cut myself off, off from TikTok because it was a problem. I, I do scroll Reels though, and I, I'm like, once I'm in bed, no sound on the Reels, and ideally I just put the phone down and, and I'm reading.

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So that's ins- How, how do you scroll Reels like this? Anyways, or TikTok. Okay. [laughs] Uh, neither here nor there.

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That's a whole other thing, because I feel like I'm the only person in the world that likes their phone. Mm-hmm. Everybody's like, "I wanna do a social media... Hey, Rachel, do you wanna do a social media-" Yeah. "...

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detox?" I'm like, "No." Yeah. Like, "I like my phone. Why would I go off my phone?" [laughs] Okay. You, you said something about, um, more and more you've been doing speaking gigs.

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Uh, I, I'm, I'm curious, like, how your profile has risen, because I was first introduced to you in this Published Press piece back in January that framed, it framed it as, like, MrBeast's editor tells, tells all.

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And, like, ev- like, like two or three other articles you've done, it's the same hook, MrBeast's editor tells all. I haven't decided yet whether that's gonna be part of the hook here.

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[laughs] It's obviously a good hook, um, because nobody knows who Rachel Casella is, but people know who MrBeast is, right? Right.

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Um, but you only worked there for a year, and you've been doing freelance video editing for, like, six years.

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So again, it's, it's a really attractive bra- It, it's like how you go on LinkedIn and there's people who are like, oh, ex-Amazon, ex-Meta, et cetera. It's that of, of the creator services world, right? Yeah.

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Um, but I guess long way of framing, like, how did you get into, like, being more of a public persona here and starting to, to have these conversations?

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Like, starting to have this conversat- Is it all sort of post-MrBeast?Yeah, I think so. I mean, I-- again, I'm so passionate about YouTube. Mm-hmm.

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Um, and I felt, uh, it's really interesting watching, like, the public dynamic kind of shift now, and also, like, running an editing community- Mm...

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seeing, like, traditional editors start to trickle in and saying like, "Oh, I want in on, like, what's happening." Yeah.

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But for the longest time, YouTube was like, oh, those influencers, like, those k- uh, the dancing kids app of TikTok or whatever, you know? It was kind of- Yeah... just, like, cast aside.

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And I've always been so passionate about YouTube. It's very interesting watching, like, the dynamic change and people start to be like, "Oh, this is actually, like,

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serious stuff, and there's great content on here, and also it's available for free anywhere." Yeah. So I feel like I love, I love talking about YouTube and talking about the future of YouTube.

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Um, and again, I just, I love helping people, and I feel like that's kind of how I frame editing in my career, which is kind of interesting- Hmm... 'cause I don't hear a lot of other people view it that way.

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But I view it as like, okay, I have this intuition that I've developed that you can't teach. I have the skills to, to manifest it onto a timeline. Who do I wanna help? Yeah.

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Like, who, who do I like that I would like to see grow? And from the very... Not from the very beginning, 'cause I was just, like, so excited to getting [laughs] to get paid editing anything. Yeah.

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But ever, you know, once I started taking, like, serious editing jobs, I would always ask myself the question, "Is this content making the world a better place?"

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I would ask myself for every single person that I worked with that question, and there are a lot of creators that the answer [laughs] is no. Yeah.

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And I would always be like, okay, you know, if I wanted to just, like, make a paycheck and dip, I would've chosen a different career path.

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Like, I chose this career path to uplift people that I feel like are making the world a better place, and again, that's not everybody in the creator wor- world. Real quick. We're... Just to stop you for a second. Uh-huh.

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That's really interesting, 'cause I used to ask everybody I interviewed if they thought about any responsibility to their audience. Oh.

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Um, because I think that it's inherent if you're making media, even if you don't think about it, there is a responsibility. It's just whether or not you choose to accept it, right?

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And so I, I don't remember the last time that somebody brought it up. And again, you're not really a creator. You're more of a creator service provider. Um, and I w- I mean, I...

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Probably something more to do with your character generally, but I can't help but think of the fact that you got a masters in documentary journalism, which is very ethics driven, right? So, um- Yes...

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yeah, it, it's just really, uh... I'm glad to hear you say that because I think it's really rare in the industry overall.

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Yeah, it's, it's really important to me, especially I've always, pre-Beast and post-Beast, I've really focused on, like, women's content. Yes. Um- We'll get into that shortly with editors...

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but even, even at Beast, even at Beast- Yeah...

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I asked myself that question before I took that job, and I looked at, like, the types of content that they were making and the people that they were helping and even, like, um, the philanthropy- Mm-hmm...

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aspect of Beast. And I-- and to this day, I would pretty solidly answer that question yes. I think MrBeast content is making the world a better place as opposed to a worse place. Yeah.

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Because again, there are creators that are- Often is a controversial subject. [laughs] Yeah. Again, I, I, I have a solid yes to that question- Yeah... looking at the totality of it.

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There are a lot of people that could get to that position and not be as giving or as- Mm... as values-driven.

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And you look at what they're doing now with, like, the water fundraiser, what they've done with the trees fundraiser. Like, there's a lot of people in that position that would not be that g- philanthropic and good. Yeah.

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So that's really important to me, and again, like, I ask myself that question for everyone that I work with.

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And when I first started working with Hopescope, I was talking to Hope and her husband, and I asked them what, like, "What do you view, like, this ch- like, the mission of this channel to be?" Mm-hmm.

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And they said, "We want to make a safe space for daughters and moms to watch YouTube together." Hmm. Mm-hmm. "A safe, a family-friendly space." And the moment I heard that, I was like, boom, I'm sold.

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Like, I will pull all-nighters editing videos. [laughs] Like, I, I'm a sucker for that.

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Like, if somebody has, like, a strong values mission in what they're doing, like, I view my role as a editor in, in helping that mission. Something I hear from creators constantly is that monetization is messy.

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Learn more at google/earnwithadsense. That's G-O-O.G-L-E/earnwithadsense. Okay, let's talk a bit about Editors. So from what I understand, you started this just, just about a year and a half ago, April 2024.

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It's billed as the first of its kind online community supporting the female video editing talent behind the top YouTubers. Um, and I checked...

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I didn't, I didn't, I have not joined the community, but I checked the Discord last night. There was 42 people active out of 223 people total. Uh, editors in the community have worked for all manner of top creators.

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You've got MrBeast, Smooth, Marques Brownlee, Linus Tech Tips, Airrack. The list goes on. Um, w- you started this community about a year and a half ago. How did it come to be? Why...

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Like, it's clear to me that you have these values, and, like, that's, that is very obviously the reason here, but why then did you decide to make this a thing?

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So I'd been thinking about starting it much longer than I actually did, and it was really just a matter of enough creators asking me, "Hey, do you know any other girls that do what you do?" Hmm.

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And also me going, like, all of my editors, editor friends are guys. Like, I wanna meet- Yeah... more girls that are passionate about what I am and also that are watching, like, similar creators to what I watch.

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Mm-hmm.You, really quickly, really quickly, a stat that you gave in your interview with Storyblocks, it was that as of 2022, women accounted for about 24% of working video editors, both in-house and freelance, uh, while 77% of influencers, which is a word with a lot of different meanings, we don't need to unpack that right now, um, were women, who often were hiring out their, uh, the editors, who were men.

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So it- it's a very odd discrepancy here. It is. It really is. And I don't see a lot of... It, it, there's definitely a lot of like surprising, like very women's-focused content that's- Mm-hmm... being edited by guys.

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And I, it's not that I think that guys can't have an eye for that. I think they definitely can. But e- especially in a context of like f- and this is what I hear from creators. Mm-hmm.

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Like, if they're vlogging their families, their home life, it- it's a very like intimate exchange. People don't really talk about that.

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Like, when you're being handed footage as an editor, especially on a, a one-on-one relationship with an influencer, it's extremely intimate. You're looking- Yeah...

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at footage that they know that they don't want the public to see. Mm-hmm. You're cutting it out. In a lot of cases, moms are very sensitive about their kids and what they wanna show about their kids online.

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But it's a very intimate exchange. And so yeah, it, creating EditHers was really just, it wa- it was so many different things combining into one, but it was really just, there was a need for it for so long.

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And again, like I was looking for this community and could not find it. Yeah. And so I was like, "What the heck? Like, I don't even know how to work Discord," "but I'm gonna [laughs] figure it out."

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'Cause that's where, again, like editors and gamers, like why is there such an overlap? But that seemed to be the place to do it. And it's been really...

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It, it's application-based, it's not open, um, 'cause I wanna keep it really focused- Mm-hmm... on people that love YouTube and are passionate about YouTube. Um,

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and I see so many similar stories coming through with, with the applications. It's, it's been so incredibly eye-opening, uh- Mm-hmm...

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to hear so many women saying like, "I'm the only girl on my team, and I'm so excited to meet other girls doing what I do."

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And it's also been so cool to see girls get connected with creators and content that they're really passionate about. Mm-hmm. Um, and that they watch and enjoy. And it's just been so cool.

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But it, there really was such a need for it, and it just reached a breaking point where I was just like, "Okay, we just gotta start this." Um, yeah, tell me more about this, about the vetting process. Yeah.

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So I have applications come in, and I wanna know are people creators or editors. I wanna know kind of like why they're excited to join EditHers. Um, and again, there's, there's lots of women in film communities. Mm-hmm.

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That's the interesting thing, and there's lots of women in film editing communities. But just like I can't edit a good movie, I can edit a good YouTube video, like those career paths are kind of separate.

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Um, and the creators that we all know and familiar with are not, it- it's not the same as the traditional film world. So I really try to keep the community curated and focused on new media and YouTube- Mm-hmm...

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so we can all s- kind of like speak a common language and share gigs that are really relevant to each other. So you have people in there who might be specialists in short-form editing versus long-form editing. Exactly.

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So it's all just new media. Exactly. Mm-hmm. New media. Tell me about- That's what we're excited about...

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like, um, the, the, the culture in there and the cultures in there rather, in terms of like what are the different channels you have, uh, what, what's most active, what are the most, uh, you know, the most frequent topics of conversation, this kind of thing?

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Yeah. So we have creators and editors in there. So we have some creators that want to tap into the community to hire editors. Mm-hmm.

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So that's kind of a whole section of the Discord is just creators and editors in conversation with each other. And we have people posting, uh, either creators coming in directly to post gigs and find editors.

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Uh, we have editors sharing other gigs at maybe their workplaces or maybe they heard about, just kind of like supporting each other.

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Um, we also have like a litany of discount codes to help editors get access to editing tools and things like that. So we share all of that.

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And then there's an editors only section where we can talk amongst each other, share info about salary transparency and rates with each other. Yes, love this. Ask questions about editing. Um,

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somebody's like, "Oh my gosh, I need help. Like, my After Effects is crashing. Like, somebody help me."

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[laughs] And then we also, one of the things I really love is we have like a self-promotion channel where people can go like, "Hey, I just spent so long working on this edit," and then everybody comes in and hypes them up, which is so cool.

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And one of my favorite interactions actually in the Discord is we have this introductions channel where when people join, they can s- say like, "Hi, I'm so-and-so. I work for so-and-so." Yeah.

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And so many times somebody will introduce themself, and somebody will respond going, "Oh my gosh, I've been watching that series- I love that video. Yeah, yeah... for the past like five years."

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And it happens all the time. It's just so cool to see, and people get connected with each other. Just the other day, somebody joined like, "Heyyo, I'm from Tennessee."

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And then somebody's like, "Oh my gosh, I never meet anybody in the YouTube world- Yeah... that is also from Tennessee." So I love that. Is there, is there like a, is there like a geographic concentration?

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Like, is it a thing... I know you're in LA. Is it like, oh, like 40% of everybody in here is in LA or whatever? Is, is there anything like that?

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I mean, I think LA is the biggest concentration, but it's definitely not 40%. We are all scattered all across the world. Mm-hmm. We have people in other countries.

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There's, there's I feel like a solid concentration in the UK as well. Um, but we just had a girl join from, I think, Brazil. Oh. Um,

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but yeah, one of the things about our jobs is, I mean, same as YouTubers, you can do it from anywhere. Mm-hmm. And especially in the YouTube world, I feel like there's not a particular need to be in LA.

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So we're really scattered everywhere, which is also kind of hard to like plan meetups. [laughs] Like, we're trying to do more in LA and stuff, but there's so many people that I wish could come that just- Yeah...

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you know?

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Um, uh, so something that really appealed to me about this, and a big part of why I wanted to talk to you, is it seems to function as sort of an informal labor union, which I think is one of the greatest problems with the creator economy, with the freelance economy, with any of this kind of like new internet entrepreneurship, is there's so few labor protections, right?

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There's no healthcare. There's no like, there's no HR. Like, the, all these things, right? Um, it, it's, it's very-These are very vulnerable labor, laborers, labor statuses, right?

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Um, do you think that EditHers is a functional informal labor union? I think that these conversations are a natural function of this industry maturing. Mm-hmm.

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And these conversations are going to be happening everywhere and more and more, but it's really interesting because as these conversations are happening and the industry is maturing, a lot of creators are also turning to cheaper overseas labor.

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Yes, exactly. Which is really interesting, and it- I think it does work for some creators, but a lot of creators run into issues with that as well. Mm-hmm. So

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that's been really interesting to kind of watch as well, and also to see some creators turn to overseas labor and then- Mm-hmm... say, "No, actually, I want, I wanna hire someone that's maybe local in my area."

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Um- That can, like, meet up with and, like, talk over, like- Exactly... talk things through over coffee, yeah. Exactly. Um, there's also a really interesting, like, e- birth of, like, editing agencies- Mm-hmm...

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which is also very interesting and also taps into, like, the overseas labor market. That's been really interesting to watch. Um,

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so i- it's kind of like two things happening at once, where some creators are used to very, very cheap prices to get what they want.

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Um, and then also we're having these conversations for the creators that don't want to necessarily tap into that market. Mm-hmm.

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Uh, I, ugh, I don't know if there's a, a, a great answer for this, but I was wondering, like, whether it's editors or other sort of service providers in this ecosystem, do you think...

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Like, which, which role or which service do you think is most vulnerable to exploitation and, like, price gouging? Uh, or price undercutting, rather. Out of, like, all the roles in, in the YouTube industry?

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Yeah, in the ecosystem.

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Like, I don't, I don't know all the jobs that would be, like, like, like, you know, for example, at a very sophisticated organization, like Beast when you were there, I don't know all the roles that would, like, be contributing to the production of one video.

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Um, but, like, in general,

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the width, the breadth of all these roles, which do you think are the most vulnerable, whereas which do you think are the most, like, valued and sort of like, uh, protected against undercutting or exploitation?

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That's a really interesting question because I think you know [laughs] what I'm gonna say is the most undervalued, but I'm also very biased. Um, and that's editors. Mm-hmm. Um,

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you know, it's, it's really interesting that I'm sitting alone in my apartment making cuts on my computer, and then those same cuts and the jokes that I'm putting in there are gonna end up being seen by maybe tens of millions of people.

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Yeah. Um, it- the connection between editors and the final product is so direct, but yet I feel like the editors are known for always pulling the all-nighters.

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Um, it's, and it's, it's very taxing job on your body in terms of how extremely sedentary it is. I mean, you could be sitting in a chair for 10 hours at a time. Like- Yeah...

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I never felt back pain until [laughs] I started editing full time. Um, and again, maybe that's, that's just coming from, like, narrow-mindedness and the fact that this is the only role that I've worked in. Mm-hmm.

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Um, but just the other day, someone in the Discord was talking about they, they were working for a YouTuber, and there was, like, you know, all the different team rooms, and the cleaners would come through at night, and the editors were always there.

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So the cleaners would just learn over time, oh, just don't clean the editing room because they're using it. Yeah. So the editing room got progressively [laughs] more and more- Oh, God...

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dirty because they were always there, and the cleaners wouldn't clean the room. So a- and also, like, have you heard the phrase, like, shit slides downhill? [laughs] Every- I actually have not.

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[laughs] All, all the mistakes, all the mistakes and everything that happens just ends up on the editors 'cause it's the final- Fix it in post... stage of the video. Yeah.

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And again, like, if there's story problems, even that needs to be solved in the edit, and if you're given the creative freedom to say, like, "Hey, we need this and this and this and this," um, it also, like, post-production me- melds with production at that point, and you're still, like, carrying the video across the finish line.

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So I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I think there's so much that falls on the editor. It's so time-consuming. It's very creatively taxing. Mm-hmm. Um, so editing is definitely a challenge.

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So, uh, I wanna know about your, like, how your rates have, have changed over time. I know that you started out, um, kind of scrapping it out on Upwork, which I did too with writing back in the day. Like taking- Yeah...

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$20 for 1,000-word blog post gigs that I, that I was like, "This, this isn't about the money. This is about me having, like, practicing, right, and getting-" Yeah. I was so hyped- "... assignments," right...

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to get those jobs. Exactly. I'm like, "$20!" Yeah, 'cause at first you're not getting any of them, and it was like, you're like, "Please, won't somebody accept my application?" And then you do.

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Um, and then you go from that, and then you, you do the full-time role at Beast, where you're leading a team of editors. I'm, I'm curious, uh, what that leadership experience was like for you.

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And then now you're freelance, and you're demanding, uh, rates that afford you a six-figure salary, right? So tell me about, like, the,

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when you've raised your rates over the, over the years and how you've justified that to clients. So that's a really interesting conversation because I had this basically block of experience that was like boot camp- Mm...

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that turned me into a very skilled editor very quickly. And so, and again, like, the, I'd been building the intuition- Yeah...

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my whole life, but going through that boot camp meant that raising rates over time is not really a conversation I've had to have because of that.

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So when I first started, again, I was so excited to be getting paid to edit, and my parents were like, "You've been locked in your room all day, and now you just, like, have money. Like, how does that even work?"

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[laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Um, and it started during the pandemic 'cause I couldn't, like... I applied to so many internships.

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I'm like, "Oh my God, I need an internship before I graduate," 'cause that's what people tell you to do. Yeah. Well, nobody was hiring 'cause there was COVID-19.

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And so-So that's how I got started on Upwork, and I was so excited to get paid anything. And then I started turning that into reaching out to influencers that I was watching on TikTok.

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And this is actually an interesting, just a side note, um, always, like, identifying need for creators that you genuinely wa- Mm... love watching. So, like, a lot-- That was during the first threat of the TikTok ban.

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Mm-hmm. And so many TikTokers had built up an audience on TikTok but hadn't diversified onto YouTube yet, and TikTok was about to get snatched away.

246
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So that was kind of like my hook when I reached out to people like, "Hey, there's this audience that you've built. I would love to help you move this onto YouTube." And I started doing that for free. Mm.

247
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So I started just editing videos, and I would say put my, uh, portfolio and my name in the description instead of paying me, and that led to more work. Um, so, so I was doing free and underpaid work for a while.

248
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Um, and then I started freelancing for more creators, got connected with Funny, started working with her.

249
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Then after I graduated from grad school, I was applying to just, like, all sorts of jobs, and I applied at MrBeast not knowing anyone there. Oh. And got that job and moved out to North Carolina.

250
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Then I came back, and I had an abundance of clients reaching out to me. Mm-hmm. And so that was kind of like my experience of my value rising over time was

251
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what do I have to offer and how many clients are in competition to take my time? Yeah. And so that's what led to my rate rising over time.

252
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And also, I went through about, it was a little less than a year after I moved back to LA after leaving my job at Beast, where I was swapping out a lot of different clients.

253
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Um, so I would- To figure out, like, well, what do I wanna do? How, how do I... Like, you've got the, the luxury of all these different clients competing for your time. How do I wanna spend my time? Exactly.

254
00:39:14.296 --> 00:39:25.355
And also trying out different prices and seeing- Mm... like, what were people- Comfortable with. Yeah, exactly. Um, so that was kind of my experience in terms of, like, figuring out my pricing.

255
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I've never really had a conversation with a client about raising my price because of that huge, uh, experience kind of in the middle of my career. Yeah.

256
00:39:35.856 --> 00:39:41.796
Um, I wanna talk about the documentary journalism, uh, master's for a little bit. So one thing that's really interesting to me about this, you... When did you grad?

257
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This was like twenty-twenty one, twenty-twenty two you were doing the master's? Um, I think it was more recent. Let me... I always have to look at my LinkedIn. [laughs] Like, isn't that weird? [laughs] That's insane.

258
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Well, anyways, while you look it up, the, the thing that's interesting to me, the reason I bring up the years is I think more and more I'm understanding that journalism programs are recognizing that, like, they have to be teaching students, um, some of these new media principles and, like, uh, what it means to, like, maybe you do have to be an on-camera presence even if you thought you were just gonna be an article writer, whatever that is.

259
00:40:10.856 --> 00:40:22.656
Um, so I'm curious, uh, two questions. I'm curious, like, uh, what about that work has carried over into the work you do now as an editor, um, and also whether or not in that program they were touching the...

260
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like, the way in which they were touching on these new media questions and problems. I am so glad you asked about this, and I'm so happy to talk about it.

261
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Um, I was floored because, uh, USC Annenberg, it trades with Columbia for the top journalism school- Mm... in the country. And so I was so excited to go.

262
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I was so excited to move to LA, go to my dream school, and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, this is gonna be great." There, there was... Granted, there was one professor that was excited about new media and YouTube. Mm-hmm.

263
00:40:51.736 --> 00:41:04.456
The rest of them not only [laughs] not only were not excited, they actively disliked- Yeah... new media. And I was floored because to me, I...

264
00:41:05.216 --> 00:41:13.566
it's the future of journalism, and it's, I mean, you're proof also that this is like, journalism is not dying. It's changing. And if you do- Yeah...

265
00:41:13.616 --> 00:41:26.456
not change with it, we are going to lose journalism, and wouldn't that be awful? Like, we need journalism in our society. Um, and, you know, I specialize in documentary journalism,

266
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and my professor, God bless him, [laughs] very fruitful career as a documentarian, but he was so against social media, new media.

267
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And even when we would screen our documentaries, if he saw a jump cut on screen, he would scream and pause it and say, "People do- people... This is jarring. Jump cuts are- Yeah... jarring. Don't use jump cuts."

268
00:41:52.206 --> 00:42:05.816
And I was like, "What?" Like, a jump cut is less... Like, like- You're like, "I've been seeing this my entire life on YouTube." Exactly. Yeah. Um, so things like that, it, it was very, very, very interesting.

269
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And to me, it just seemed like these people were just, like, driving -- [sighs] setting the students not up for success and for the future of journalism. It was extremely frustrating to me.

270
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I got asked by a professor to come into her class at USC and talk about freelancing because she didn't know how to talk about it. And I talked to the students [laughs] about it.

271
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Like, "Guys, these skills that you're learning in journalism school are so valuable." Mm.

272
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Journalists are some of the hardest working people I know, and they have so many valuable skills, but they're not being set up for success to monetize it and use it in the future of media.

273
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It was extremely frustrating experience, but I just, I knew the whole time that I was right. [laughs] Mm-hmm.

274
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And now I'm kind of, like, watching it slowly unfold, and we're also seeing journalists leave outlets and go independent and become so much more success- successful on YouTube. All the Vox journalists leaving. Mm.

275
00:43:00.736 --> 00:43:11.916
Washington Post people have been leaving lately, starting doing so well on Sub Stack. Like, it's so, so interesting to watch. It's shocking to me a- and I'm sure they're s... You know, I, I just checked.

276
00:43:11.956 --> 00:43:16.556
I graduated in twenty-twenty two. I'm sure they're still not with the times. Yeah. It's crazy to me.

277
00:43:16.696 --> 00:43:24.556
Al-although I did see on LinkedIn they have been adding some professors that have been talking about the creator economy, um, again. But this, this should've been years ago.

278
00:43:24.676 --> 00:43:33.982
Uh, so it's something that I am very passionate about, again, because I think journalism is so important, and we need to set people up for success to-To carry journalism into the future. Yeah.

279
00:43:34.032 --> 00:43:39.442
I forgot what the first question you asked. Uh, no, no, no. I... Oh, you answered it well. Um, I, uh, I'll, I'll share it too.

280
00:43:39.692 --> 00:43:49.152
I, I was invited recently through this, through the podcast, um, a journalism professor reached out to me and asked me to talk to his students about kind of these th- th- th- these new media models and how journalists are adapting.

281
00:43:49.472 --> 00:43:57.192
So I was really pleased to see that, and I was wondering if, if you'd had something similar a few years ago. But I think we're... I, I mean, even now is so much different than 2022.

282
00:43:57.792 --> 00:44:06.312
Um, what I did wanna ask, so right after, right after the program, the Annenberg program, you were a social video producer for Dot LA for just a few months.

283
00:44:06.552 --> 00:44:11.822
Um, but I know you were a bit of an on-camera talent at that time too. You were, you were- [laughs] I, I watched a couple TikToks.

284
00:44:12.332 --> 00:44:19.232
Um, so my question is, do you have any desire to be in front of the camera again as, like, whether as a creator or a journalist?

285
00:44:19.822 --> 00:44:30.732
Maybe the different, the difference there doesn't even matter, but, um, do you have a desire to be in, in front of the camera on a regular basis at any point? Um, okay. So I, unlike a lot of editors, I do not want to...

286
00:44:31.372 --> 00:44:40.092
I do not wanna turn that into my job. Like, I do not wanna be an influencer at all, and the way that I view it is, like, I just like to talk.

287
00:44:40.362 --> 00:44:48.892
[laughs] When I first started editing, I just was on camera 'cause I wanted something to edit. Yeah. So I'd be like... I would tell my little brother here, like- Mm-hmm... "Here, record me doing this."

288
00:44:49.392 --> 00:45:03.212
And so I would have something to, like, edit and, and meme on. Yeah. [laughs] But, [laughs] but now as I've gotten older, it's, it... Yeah, I like to talk, but yeah, I do- I don't wanna be an influencer.

289
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I certainly don't. And the, the reason is because my clients are so good at being on camera. Yeah.

290
00:45:10.402 --> 00:45:21.812
And I was like, like, just like my clients should not be sitting looking at Premiere, like, I feel like, again, I view my skills as, like, who can I help and who can I uplift? Yeah.

291
00:45:21.882 --> 00:45:30.232
And my skills are so much b- more better utilized to uplift my clients' being on camera than me. That's 100% true. You know what I mean? I'm like- You should know that. Yeah. Yeah. So

292
00:45:31.452 --> 00:45:41.081
a- and if, [laughs] like, if this client is doing something other than being on camera, like, that's not right. Like, they should [laughs] not be looking at After Effects. They should not be doing all that stuff. Mm-hmm.

293
00:45:41.111 --> 00:45:55.741
So that's kinda how, how I feel about it. I think a lot of editors that I talk to have some, like, bigger vision towards, like, I wanna be an influencer one day, or I wanna direct or whatever. I genuinely...

294
00:45:55.932 --> 00:46:07.952
I love editing so much, and I, I... It's also, I feel like, the best way for me to, like, express my humor is through- Mm-hmm... my editing. So I just- Yeah... really enjoy it, and- No, that's good. Yeah.

295
00:46:08.032 --> 00:46:17.872
Um, o- speaking of clients, uh, this, I, I asked this question with both people who would be clients and people who would be editors serving clients. I asked this question with both of them in mind.

296
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Um, do you have to tailor your approach much from client to client in terms of really, like, to start managing expectations? That's a good question.

297
00:46:28.832 --> 00:46:36.492
Um, there's definitely things that I like to do to make the experience a little easier for both of us. Mm-hmm. For example, um,

298
00:46:37.412 --> 00:46:47.662
uh, if they would like to be involved in notes throughout the editing process, I like to give them a cut with no music first. Mm. Um, because music is kind of a whole...

299
00:46:48.241 --> 00:46:59.532
There's a huge overlap between editors and musicians, too. Yeah. I don't know if you've noticed that. Huge overlap. Um, and so the timing of the music takes so much time and s- so much time to get right that- Mm-hmm...

300
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that's kind of, like, a way I like to do things. Um, it really just, I would say, it depends on client to client, like, how, how intense the notes process is.

301
00:47:11.192 --> 00:47:16.502
But I like my client to see cuts if they're open to it earlier on, just so- Mm-hmm...

302
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like- You don't wanna have to undo a bunch of work later on because they're like, "Oh, actually I don't like this part," and that part was so foundational to so much work you did after or something. Exactly. Yeah.

303
00:47:26.532 --> 00:47:34.842
Exactly. And I also, I read in, um, one of my editing books, I think it was The Art of the Cut- Mm-hmm...

304
00:47:34.842 --> 00:47:44.542
um, somebody talking about if you, you need to be able to build a scene that stands alone without music because music can be such a crutch- Mm-hmm...

305
00:47:44.582 --> 00:47:49.642
that if you use, if you build it around, like, one track, for example, and the client's like, "I don't like that track." Yeah.

306
00:47:49.672 --> 00:47:54.372
Like, that's like the worst thing to hear as an editor, and you're like, "I built this whole thing around that track."

307
00:47:54.812 --> 00:48:04.452
So to be able to build something that stands alone and is funny and carries the story without music, I think... And then you, then you just add music.

308
00:48:04.732 --> 00:48:17.432
It doesn't mean that you can't center certain parts around the music, but I find that that builds a strong cut on its own. Something I hear time and time again from creators is that monetization is difficult and messy.

309
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There are too many platforms, too much guesswork, and way too many things that pull you away from actually creating. But with Google AdSense, earning revenue is simple.

310
00:48:25.572 --> 00:48:32.072
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311
00:48:32.592 --> 00:48:42.952
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312
00:48:43.132 --> 00:48:57.372
Learn more at google/earnwithadsense. That is G-O-O.G-L-E/earnwithadsense. Tell me about giving feedback to clients, not just clients giving feedback to you.

313
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I'm sure there's times where you actually have to tell them, like, "Oh, this should've been different." Like, especially people you work with on an ongoing basis where it's like, "We can't...

314
00:49:04.992 --> 00:49:14.422
I know we can't reshoot this thing, but next time you shoot, I need you to do X, Y, Z differently," right? Tell me about, like, how you go about giving feedback to your clients, 'cause I think that's...

315
00:49:14.542 --> 00:49:16.532
it, it can be hard for a client to hear, I imagine.

316
00:49:17.552 --> 00:49:33.872
As an editor, I understand my place in the hierarchy of the video that's being made, and so I will always offer my feedback and suggestions, especially as, like, a- an impartial viewer or someone that's seeing footage for the first time or hearing about the story for the first time.

317
00:49:34.052 --> 00:49:35.972
I think that's valuable, and also- Yeah...

318
00:49:35.992 --> 00:49:49.200
again, like, the intuition that I've developed, the experience that I haveAcross Beast and journalism training and all this stuff, I will always offer my feedback and suggestions because I think that's part of what I'm being hired to do.

319
00:49:49.300 --> 00:49:56.470
I'm not just like a machine carrying out orders. Like I have- Yeah. This is, you have the ta- this is the taste that you bring to the table. Exactly. Mm.

320
00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:09.100
But if the client wants it a certain way, I will do it that way, and I've ran into editors that are so hard-headed about the way that they want to do it. Mm-hmm. And it's like, "Who's paying your paycheck?"

321
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:20.440
[laughs] Like- You have to kill the ego a bit sometimes. Exactly, and that's al- that's also a really important thing that I wanna talk about too, is just- Mm... not attaching your ego to the work.

322
00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:27.700
And so yes, I always, I always give my feedback and suggestions at any, honestly, at any

323
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:41.209
level of the video, but especially in the editing, I'll always give my feedback, and I'll give reasoning as to why I think that is the way it should be. But if the creator wants it to be done a certain way, my- Mm-hmm...

324
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I'm being hired by the creator, and they're my boss, and I'm very aware of that. Um, and my job is to make their vision come to life, and I'm, I'm very aware of that too. So I'm definitely very mindful of that. Um,

325
00:50:56.460 --> 00:51:09.700
I do wanna touch on the ego thing because that's also something I see- Yeah... a lot of editors falter at that point, is because it's very hard to do, is to separate your ego from the work.

326
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:21.520
It doesn't come naturally, and I know the specific moment that it happened for me was I was in the honors program in undergrad, and I was writing my like giant thesis. Mm. And we would...

327
00:51:22.240 --> 00:51:33.780
This was during the pandemic, so we would all get together over Zoom, and it was a class of like six people, and we would screen share our writing and just all rip it apart together every week.

328
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:48.459
And like that, doing that over and over and over, like eventually beats the sense out of you of attaching your ego to anything that you've written- Yeah... or your personal identity to anything that you've created.

329
00:51:48.500 --> 00:51:56.119
You have to learn to take the criticism. You have to learn to, y- you have to be able to j- like, you have to, you have to learn to know that your shit stinks. Yeah. You know what I mean?

330
00:51:56.430 --> 00:52:09.580
[laughs] I- in an academic context, I could feel my ego start to separate from what I was doing, and it took repeated painful interactions of people all ripping my work apart in front of me over and over and over.

331
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:18.040
Mm-hmm. And so that I feel like trained me really well for the YouTube world, and even to the point where I'm like, if a client's like, "Oh, this is great," I'm like,

332
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:29.160
"Okay, but I, I bet there was something that made you wanna like get, get distracted or check your phone." Yeah. Like, I wanna know like all of the- Give me the damn notes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, give me the notes.

333
00:52:29.200 --> 00:52:35.300
Like, I'll take as many... You know, I wanna make a great video. So yeah, that's, that's something that I see

334
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:46.780
a lot of editors haven't gone through that yet, and I think at least for me it was a matter of going through it over and over and feeling the pain of it over and over until it stopped. Mm-hmm.

335
00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:52.230
Um, but maybe other people can do it without going through that, but... Um, quick question.

336
00:52:52.740 --> 00:53:04.380
So I know you can't speak about specifics about your time at Beast, but I, I am really curious about the fact that you were leading a team of editors there, and I- you said around the beginning of this conversation that you just really love the editing, and that's the work you love to do.

337
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:14.240
So I'm sure that like the leadership aspect is a learning experience but also like probably frustrating in that I would imagine you were doing less of the editing.

338
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:27.460
Like y- let's say, you know, 100% of your week, maybe instead of 100% editing, it's like 40% editing, 60% giving other people feedback. Um, tell me about what that type of work was like for you.

339
00:53:28.080 --> 00:53:42.170
It was so fun because I had never been in that context before of like, of guiding other people's edits, and I did so much reading and studying and learning of how to, um... What's the... Delegate. Mm.

340
00:53:42.180 --> 00:53:53.940
How to delegate effectively. And fortunately there was so much editing to do that I did end up doing a lot of editing, but just learning how to delegate and set someone else up for success.

341
00:53:53.960 --> 00:54:01.680
And also, um, I think the term is radical... It's not radical ownership. Mm. It's radical... There's a book. Oh, extreme ownership. Yeah.

342
00:54:01.740 --> 00:54:10.470
Extreme ownership as a leader of saying, "If this goes well, it's because of all of us. If it doesn't go well, it's because of me. I didn't communicate effectively." Yeah.

343
00:54:10.669 --> 00:54:18.330
"If something comes back to me not looking like how I want, it's not your fault. It's my fault for not communicating effectively." I love that.

344
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:30.700
And, and taking that ownership even when it's the hardest to take that ownership. Um, setting someone up for success, like sitting down with them. Delegating doesn't mean that that time is lifted off your shoulders.

345
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:39.860
It means that your time, how you spend your time changes. Yeah. So encouraging them to ask as many questions to me as you want.

346
00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:53.920
Ask more questions than you think you want because that's going to set all of us up for success, and I will sit there and answer all of the questions that you have to set you up for the best possible edit and to get what I'm expecting back at the end of the day.

347
00:54:54.420 --> 00:55:11.850
So I mean, I, I love expanding my skills. I love learning. I love people. Um, so that was really, it was really fun for me. And now as a freelancer, I spend a lot of time working on my own and solo- Mm...

348
00:55:11.860 --> 00:55:21.840
and I hope someday to return back to like a team setting where I can work with people, um, because I really- We were speaking a little bit ago about agencies. Would you ever wanna run your own editor agency?

349
00:55:22.600 --> 00:55:33.380
I don't think so. I've really thought about it, but I think in, in that case, I don't know. I just... I don't know.

350
00:55:33.520 --> 00:55:40.580
I guess I still could do some editing, but I always imagine an editing agency, I- it would be just like pure delegation of remote people- That's what it becomes... and I'm like, "Eh."

351
00:55:40.620 --> 00:55:48.932
Yeah.I spoke, I spoke to a guy a, a few months ago, Tom Fishburne, AKA the Marketoonist. He's like, he used to be a CMO.

352
00:55:49.212 --> 00:55:54.552
Um, he, the whole time he was doing cartoons on the side, sort of like New Yorker style cartoons, right?

353
00:55:55.052 --> 00:56:04.132
Um, and he, like 15 years ago or so, he left his job and he started doing the cartoons full time, selling them commissioned. Um, also like working as sort of a consultant.

354
00:56:04.232 --> 00:56:13.532
Um, he would, he would do like advertising projects with brands. Uh, and he was like, "Oh, maybe this is something I should scale where like we can make more of these and work with more clients."

355
00:56:13.812 --> 00:56:20.072
Um, and so he started an agency, but he shut it down because he was like, "I was doing, I was starting to do delegation work, and that's...

356
00:56:20.332 --> 00:56:30.852
I, I, I left my CMO job because I wanted to make these things and find a way to make a living making them. And now suddenly it's like I'm spending less of my time making them. What's the point?"

357
00:56:30.972 --> 00:56:42.632
He was like, "I could be making more money, but I, I'm making plenty money already. Let me just do what I wanna do." Yeah. I vibe with that a lot. Yeah. Um, what was I gonna ask? Uh, oh yeah.

358
00:56:42.712 --> 00:56:53.952
So again, I think it was in the, the, uh, Storyblocks, um, piece. On the topic of EditHers, this was in your Published Press, uh, interview, a little piece back in January.

359
00:56:53.992 --> 00:56:57.142
You said that if you have a niche community you want to start, just start it.

360
00:56:57.252 --> 00:57:04.292
It doesn't really matter how big it is as long as it helps the people that are in it, and people have gotten long-term clients from, from EditHers alone you said, which I love.

361
00:57:04.352 --> 00:57:10.672
I think that's the right, um, mindset to have. That's what makes a good community. It's not about like, "Oh, I wanna make this thing and, and monetize it."

362
00:57:10.812 --> 00:57:16.272
Like, y- maybe that's a thing that happens later for some people, but it should be around a common purpose, uh, and common goals.

363
00:57:16.492 --> 00:57:37.282
Um, so my question for you though is like do you have some more ambitious dream where you're like for EditHers where you're like, "Oh, like this could accomplish this if we had this many people and we could like establish like a rates, a rates report and like publish this every year and like help people, you know, get, get better compensation across the industry even outside of our, of our group here"?

364
00:57:37.732 --> 00:57:51.251
Um, so the question is do you have larger dreams for what EditHers could become and accomplish as a community? Yes. I, I would love to do more in-person events, and we're working on them. Um,

365
00:57:52.272 --> 00:57:58.872
because so many of us work solo and remote as editors, I think

366
00:58:00.192 --> 00:58:11.092
even just EditHers, and I've heard from people like how amazing it's been for them to find community, and people have met up in their cities with other EditHers Girls, which is so cool.

367
00:58:11.212 --> 00:58:26.672
Um, but I think the in-person events would be so good and kind of like it's what we need. Mm-hmm. But we're so spread out. So it's [laughs] really hard.

368
00:58:26.712 --> 00:58:37.682
So I'm trying to grow the community in this very niche group of people, and everybody that should be in the community needs to know about it and be in it so we can all find community together.

369
00:58:37.692 --> 00:58:50.752
But I think in-person events is definitely what we're missing. But honestly it's, it's so interesting because I work on videos that reach such a huge scale of people. Mm-hmm.

370
00:58:50.812 --> 00:58:59.212
But yet this group of like 100, 200 people has affected me so deeply and strongly.

371
00:58:59.252 --> 00:59:13.752
And when I hear that somebody has been connected with a long-term client that they've now had for like a year through EditHers and they love each other and they're having like this long-term client editor relationship, and they're building something together, which I think is like

372
00:59:15.372 --> 00:59:28.682
the dream for editors and creators is to find a team that you're so locked in on the mission of the content that you can grow together. Like even that is almost like m- more than I even [laughs]

373
00:59:28.712 --> 00:59:35.272
could have ever hoped because it, it, the impact is so huge for that small group of people. Mm-hmm. And so

374
00:59:36.552 --> 00:59:49.712
it's just been amazing to watch and to hear from people how impactful it's been for them even on such a small scale. It's just been so huge. But definitely in-person events I think is where it's at.

375
00:59:49.792 --> 01:00:01.372
I wanna make cute merch that's like editing themed that we can wear and all match. Um, but yeah, it, it'll always be free for the editors to join.

376
01:00:01.412 --> 01:00:11.992
Like a, like a, on the high end you'll have like a chair that has really good back support. [laughs] Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. [laughs] Exactly. Um, cool. We need that. Yeah.

377
01:00:12.172 --> 01:00:16.032
I, I think, uh, one more practical question I wanted to ask and then maybe we'll wrap up.

378
01:00:16.112 --> 01:00:24.222
Um, for anybody who's looking to find good video editors and looking to understand what kind of rates that they should pay, turnaround times, et cetera, um,

379
01:00:25.492 --> 01:00:36.272
sort of a rapid fire round for, for people looking for good editing talent. Uh, where, number one, where will they find the best editors besides EditHers? [laughs] EditHers is great. Um,

380
01:00:38.232 --> 01:00:47.592
there are lots of platforms, YouTube Jobs, Roster, LinkedIn, Indeed are some of the top ones I know that people find talent. However,

381
01:00:48.752 --> 01:00:59.862
the clients that I really connect with and I've stuck with long term a lot of times come from cold emails that I've sent them because I truly enjoy their content so much. Mm.

382
01:00:59.872 --> 01:01:13.252
And again, that mindset of like I want to support that and grow that. And I also think if somebody has 80% of the skills you're looking for but they're so locked in on your content and your mission,

383
01:01:14.432 --> 01:01:27.692
that might be a better fit than someone who has like 110% of the skills. Mm. Mm-hmm. But they might... If someone's so locked in with you, they're not just gonna jump ship if they get a bigger subscriber client.

384
01:01:27.932 --> 01:01:33.972
You know what I mean? Which I, I think a lot of editors are in that mindset of like I edit for the biggest and like- Yeah... rack up my views. Um,

385
01:01:34.952 --> 01:01:45.202
so I know that creators have found success also just like checking their inbox and seeing who has reached out to them, and is there someone who... Or I know sometimes creators like post on their Instagram story- Yeah...

386
01:01:45.212 --> 01:01:55.943
to get like their most engaged-... followers and see if maybe they know of someone else that would be a good fit. I just think that- Wait, real quick, real quick. Sorry. You said something, uh, about racking up views.

387
01:01:56.064 --> 01:02:06.054
Is this kind of the metric that, that in the editor community that's like, that's your, that's your number, is like how many total views do all the videos I've worked on have? For sure. [laughs] You've never seen that?

388
01:02:06.724 --> 01:02:16.954
No, I'm not in this community. [laughs] I- it makes total sense, but, uh- Yeah... yeah. [laughs] Yeah. It, I think on YouTube Jobs, I think it might automatically- Yes... sum it up. It has it there.

389
01:02:16.954 --> 01:02:24.904
I have seen it there, yeah. I, I did find your YouTube Jobs profile and it did have that. Yeah. [laughs] I think when I- It also looked like you hadn't updated it in a while though. Yeah.

390
01:02:25.074 --> 01:02:30.004
I, well, I made it when I was, I think, at Beast, and like- Yeah, all the videos were Beast videos... there were so many views- Mm-hmm...

391
01:02:30.104 --> 01:02:36.884
that it like bugged the website, and I had to email them like, "Please fix my profile. Like, it's not working." That's so funny. But- Um, okay.

392
01:02:36.984 --> 01:02:45.984
What, another question though, maybe last question for, for where people can look to find editors. Um, I know there's not necessarily a typical project. Maybe you could define one. I, I don't know.

393
01:02:46.024 --> 01:02:53.504
And my, my guess would be it's like a 10-minute video that you're editing down 60 hours of footage. I don't know. I'm making these numbers up.

394
01:02:53.644 --> 01:03:07.544
But I, I'd ask for you to define what a typical project would be, um, and then for like what the, a typical fee for a typical editor would be for that. [laughs] It's a lot, a lot of assumptions here, but- Yeah.

395
01:03:07.604 --> 01:03:17.854
It, it's, it's so hard, and I would need so many details, but the, the way I normally recommend people to price things is to break it down by like how many hours it's going to take you. Mm-hmm.

396
01:03:17.864 --> 01:03:24.174
So again, like it depends on the pre-planning. It depends on how many hour, hours of raw footage that you have to watch through and then cut down. Mm-hmm.

397
01:03:24.244 --> 01:03:41.884
Um, I- So what's a, what's, what's like a good range of hourly fees? I would s- for like a mid-range editor, I would say 30 to 70 maybe, for a mid-range editor, depending on like how many subscribers- Yeah...

398
01:03:41.924 --> 01:03:51.444
of channels that they've worked on and, and also like how aligned their experience is. Like, I often think about salary as like replaceability, like how replaceable are you in that role. Yeah. Um,

399
01:03:52.464 --> 01:04:03.684
this is another piece of advice for editors, but I think a lot of editor, times editors, um, they don't emphasize what makes them different enough. Mm.

400
01:04:03.794 --> 01:04:18.444
And as an editor, you're molding to whatever it is, the footage and the content that you're working on, and some little piece of your experience that you think might be irrelevant to editing could actually be extremely relevant and make you irreplaceable in an editing role.

401
01:04:18.464 --> 01:04:29.504
For example, um, I like took some coding classes in college, and I knew statistical programming software. Mm-hmm. And there was this guy on Upwork that was making tut- video tutorials for statistical programming.

402
01:04:29.584 --> 01:04:37.724
Where, where else is he going to find an editor that understands what he's teaching and what he's saying- Yeah... and statistical programming languages? So like

403
01:04:38.884 --> 01:04:47.504
that was so aligned and made me a lot less repla- like nearly irreplaceable in that role. Um- Yeah. Same thing...

404
01:04:47.913 --> 01:05:01.844
same thing, I, I did some work for like an aviation-themed channel, but I, some, my clients fly planes, and like I've been around people who've flown planes, and I know a little bit about planes, but like that makes me really valuable as an editor in that role, that I know what they're saying on the radio.

405
01:05:01.904 --> 01:05:13.584
Yeah. You know what I mean? So I think that's really interesting too, is like thinking about your replaceability level and how that translates to how much you would charge. Yeah. No, that makes total sense. Okay.

406
01:05:13.684 --> 01:05:24.304
Actual last question, something to leave the listeners on. Um, is there a video you've worked on that you would say is like most representative of your talent or that you're most proud of?

407
01:05:24.484 --> 01:05:36.084
Phrase it however you like, but the, what I'm asking for is for you to leave us with one video that anybody who's listening, who's curious to see how you work, should go watch. Oh my gosh. That's such a big question.

408
01:05:36.864 --> 01:05:49.094
And I'm sure that you could give like five, and there's this one for that reason. But, uh, which, which, what's a video that's just so, "Rachel edited this," like a, like a producer tag in a rap song? Oh, my God.

409
01:05:49.094 --> 01:06:06.723
Casella cut. [laughs] Okay. It's probably... Okay, you know what? I really liked this Crocs video I did for Hopescope. I just, they gave me that video, and I was like, "No way. I have 7-Eleven Crocs."

410
01:06:06.984 --> 01:06:19.064
[laughs] So like Crocs did like a one-time collaboration with 7-Eleven, and- If you're not, if, if you're wa- if you're listening to this, not watching it, I can see you looking down at the corner of the screen where I'm, where I'm betting there are like seven Crocs.

411
01:06:19.074 --> 01:06:28.544
Oh, no. No, they're right here. Wait, they're right here. They're right here. Wait. [laughs] Yeah. Ugh. [laughs] Okay. So they gave, they gave me this video, and I was like, "You've gotta be joking me.

412
01:06:28.724 --> 01:06:38.444
I have 7-Eleven-themed Crocs." Oh, my God. You're like, "I'm the swamp queen over here." [laughs] Right. I'm like, "You gave this video to the right girl"- That's so funny... 'cause they have Slurpee Jibbitz on them.

413
01:06:38.824 --> 01:06:46.464
Oh, my God. So I was like, "I cannot believe that you gave me that video." So- Yeah... and Hopescope, I love working with them. They give me so much like creative freedom.

414
01:06:46.584 --> 01:07:01.724
I can really be goofy with the edits, so I love that. Um- That's awesome... after I moved back to LA, I think it was after I moved back to LA, I did this, um, documentary for Bunny. Mm-hmm.

415
01:07:02.044 --> 01:07:12.544
Um, if you just search up Bunny Adea documentary on YouTube, you'll find it, but it's about kind of like her upbringing and how she got to where she is. And I shot it on a bad old camera.

416
01:07:12.624 --> 01:07:26.684
Like, it's not [laughs] particularly- Oh, you shot it too? What? You shot it too, is that- Yes, I shot it. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I also, I ideated it. I came up with the structure. I shot it. I edited it.

417
01:07:26.724 --> 01:07:36.664
And it just felt like, again, the footage doesn't [laughs] look that great, but that was kind of like me pouring... And I'd worked with Bunny before, and I love Bunny.

418
01:07:36.974 --> 01:07:40.794
And so- You have a higher degree of creative control than your typical project. Oh, my g- so much. Yeah.

419
01:07:40.804 --> 01:07:56.064
But it also tied in, like, this documentary experience, and again, it was extremely values-driven, and I just had so much freedom to kind of like, if I had to make something that was, like, documentary-like but optimized for YouTube, what would that look like?

420
01:07:56.144 --> 01:08:05.734
And it wasn't goofy and funny like the Crocs video. It was emotional, and I'm, I'm, I'm very proud of that one. It's, it's not- Yeah...

421
01:08:05.784 --> 01:08:15.564
super YouTube-y, and it doesn't have, like, a ton of views, but it's just so, uh, I just poured my heart and soul into it. So- Well, that's a good, that's a good pair to, to, to- Yeah... leave the, the listener with.

422
01:08:16.024 --> 01:08:25.564
Um, Rachel, thank you for coming on. This was super fun. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Yeah, of course. Um, oh, is, do you wanna drop any, any links or places people should go to?

423
01:08:25.864 --> 01:08:36.404
Go to rachelcasella.com. Hire her. Well- Edit hers maybe... hire, hire the editors and edit hers. There we go. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Perfect. There's, there's so many talented women in there.

424
01:08:36.444 --> 01:08:46.324
They have such a breadth of experience. There's always girls looking for editing gigs, so yeah. There we go. Uh, listener, I will see you next week.

425
01:08:52.024 --> 01:09:04.564
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