who's a bad boy. We can cut this part out. Hold on here. Um- No, let's not cut this part out. This is how we- this- we, we start hot and, hot and heavy. This is the behind the scenes.
Aaron Rhodes is joining us today as our guest on TDIT. Happy Wednesday. I think we said it wrong. I think we said it wrong. Let's r- let's roll, let's roll it back. Aaron Rhodes? I said Aaron Hodes. Let's do it again.
No. It's, it's Hodys. Let's roll it back. Hodys. Hodes? Hodys. You spelled it wrong. All right. You spelled it wrong, dude. All right. I did? Yes. Change it. What? H-O- H-O-D-E-S? [laughs] No, no, no. Yeah. This is it.
That's Hodes. That's Hodes. But that's how he spelled it. You're telling me how to pronounce my own last name? [laughs] Hey, I'm just going off how it's spelled. That's it. That's it. Okay. Hodys. All right. H-O-D...
You know what? You can call me- Aaron... you can call me whatever you want. Welcome back to another episode of TDIT- Take it away... happy Wednesday morning. We are introducing a new guest with us today, Aaron Hodys.
It is spelled Hodes, but we've been told by insiders that it is pronounced Hodys. It is. Thank you for joining us today, Aaron. Troy- Thanks, guys... how'd we find this guy? Where'd we pick this guy up?
Yeah, yeah, off the streets, dude. He, he just kept- [laughs] He kept coming to my, he kept coming to my front door.
I was like, "Dude, please, please, please, no" So Aaron- Aaron just found out how the sausage was made with TDIT. It's a, it's a funny- He did... it's a funny morning here behind the scenes. It's, it's, it's juicy.
It is juicy. So everyone, it is January 23rd, 2026. It's -18 in Madison, Wisconsin, and it feels like it's, like, -40. Daycare canceled, I don't have my mic, I don't have the right headphones.
Everything's a mess over here, but we're making it work. We're gonna make it work. So kind of to your, to your point or to your question, Daniel, Aaron Hodes, LinkedIn connection, longtime LinkedIn connection.
Thanks for- Hodys... reaching out and supporting the- Don't mispronounce it. Hodys, Hodys. Hodys. No, it's Hodes. Okay. Actually, for me, for me, it's Hodes. [laughs] You know what? Call, call it Hodes.
I'm gonna actually officially change it to Hodes- [laughs]... and I'll just tell my dad, and it'll be, I'll be good. So it'll be- We'll just call him, like, Joe Smith. Love it.
This is the d- the Joe Smith episode of TDIT. That's Aaron Hodys. A- after, after the recording stops, I'll tell you what my friends call me 'cause it's not, uh, it's not podcast appropriate, so.
I feel like it's Hodes- That's right, that's right, PG... with just add a C maybe. I know what PG-13 word is coming. All right, we're good, we're good. Ex- exactly. All right, Troy, take us away.
Introduce our guest, Aaron Hodes to you, Aaron Hodys to us. [laughs] But apparently doesn't matter. Yeah. So to everyone listening, it's Aaron Hodys.
He's a dad of two, married, known his wife for 14 years, is in e-commerce and logistics. He's listened- Yeah... to every episode. You reached out to me about the Vulnerable podcast, which thank you so much.
I realized that when you reached out again, I forgot to respond. That's on me, I promise it was not on purpose.
But then you said, "Troy, I've listened to every episode, and I feel like my story's relatable to your audience." We wanna hear that. So I'm gonna just open the floor.
One, introduce yourself, if I missed anything, and two, tell us the story. For sure. Thank you guys for, for having me on. Of course.
Yeah, I mean, it's very interesting to listen to guys who are, you know, around my age, in sales, have built their own businesses, and it was just very relatable to me.
Yeah, a little bit about my background, born and raised in Chicago, live up in the Chicago suburbs with my wife. I have two young kids, a three-year-old son and a eight-month-old daughter. Ooh.
Uh, me and my wife met at Indiana University. Go Hoosiers. We're, uh, we are national champions. Ooh. Yes, you are. We are national champions.
No, met our sophomore year at Indiana University, uh, and are, you know, college sweethearts. We were supposed to get married in 2020. That didn't happen. I had to punt for a, for a year, got married in 2021.
Why didn't that happen? What happened in 2020? Uh, yeah, no, no. Oh, no. [laughs] There's j- there's just this little, I don't know, this little thing that happened in the world.
Um, so we effectively had to plan two weddings, which was fun. Probably shouldn't laugh at that. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, okay. There you go. Uh, I like morbid humor, so, uh, it had to do with me.
You know, me and my wife had built just, like, a really, you know, a tight-knit, you know, family, great family support system. And I think one of the most interesting things about becoming a dad has...
I don't think the thing that people really talk about is, like, kind of like your, your change in identity or- Mm... loss of independence, I would say. It was more so for my wife, like, with our first kid, right?
And there's just so much that, that my wife does for our family, and she's just, like, the absolute rock and carries our family in, in, in so many ways.
And when we had my son at the end of 2022, and then to, you know, the early parts of 2023, I think she felt like she was losing her independence, and I didn't necessarily feel like that because I...
You know, she was, she's a teacher and she's a mom, so she... I mean, she's taking the emotional labor of the house in addition to working a full-time job. Uh,
she teaches biology and chemistry, so it's, uh, uh- We just, uh, we just had an episode, former teacher, where it really, teachers are more than a full-time job, and so are, so are being parents.
So I feel like she's juggling, like, three jobs if you add it all up. Crazy. Dude, teachers don't get enough appreciation in this country. I mean, she probably works, like, 80 hour weeks. Like, like- It's insane...
like, no joke. It's a startup. She comes home exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. No, it really is. No, she carries the weight of the whole world on her back. I mean, my wife was a former teacher.
She was a teacher for six years, and it, it really just, it never ends. You, you take it home on the weekends, you're grading papers, you're planning lessons. It, it never stops.
The most annoying thing, I, I love when people are like, "Oh, well, teachers get their summers off." And I'm like, "Dude, tell me you know less about education," uh [laughs] because- Yeah.
Tell me you've never been a teacher... yeah, exactly. No, and then, you know, I, going back to, like, kind of, like, the independence piece, I, I didn't honestly really feel that until we had our daughter.
The change from one to two, personally, for me, was very difficult. Yeah, everyone says, you know, "You go from, like, zone defense to man to man," and it's like, it's so true.
It's so true, and I, and I would be remiss to say, like, it takes a village to raise children, and, uh- Mm... me and my wife are so, so, so fortunate to have my folks, her mom, aunts and uncles.
Like, they have really all pitched in, and it's like, it has allowed me to sh- like, have, like, an appreciation and a deeper relationship with, like, my loved ones than I ever thought I would because
it's like when a kid gets sick, I have to go in the office. Like, my mo- you know, my parents just retired, like, last year. Like, my mom is willing to come and... You know, and I didn't really...
Everything was so pre-scheduled. Like, like, everything had to be, like, pre-scheduled now with, like, kids, and everything- Yeah... was very, like,
always, like, we had to fit everything into, like, a perfect time block, and it was just... There was just, like, this loss of we're, we're scheduling our lives around our kids now, which is a good thing. Yeah.
But I think I, it's been difficult for me to come to terms with.Yeah. Is it still- How do you build that support system? I mean, I agree, of- it takes a village. But it's easier said than done.
I mean, how'd you build the village? Yeah, that's a good question. How did I build it? I don't think it was intentional. I think I just have two loving parents and loving in-laws. Mm.
Um, they love us, and they love our kids, and they wanna make sure that, you know, everything is good, and they're, and they're willing to pitch in.
And so I try not to forget, like, kinda like the theme of the last year is, like, uh, just reflecting and being thankful for- Mm... for what, uh, I have. And I'm really fortunate. Like, I- I...
You know, a lot of people don't have what, you know, I have, and I'm constantly reminding myself that in, like, moments of, like, reflection, in the shower. Like, uh, I built a home gym last year.
Troy, I know you're- Oh, yeah... an early morning guy. Uh, I'm a, I'm a weirdo- Every morning... 4:00, 4:30 guy too. Yeah. Man, it's, uh, [laughs] it's my, it's my peace. Dude, dude, it is... It's my peace, man.
It's what keeps me grounded. Leg day today, baby. [laughs] I'm a runner. Uh- Oh... Daniel, it's, uh... I got my- Love that. I'm a big Brooks guy. Yeah. I- There you go...
I've run through, I've run through some- I just talked to Brooks. Oh, you did? I'm like, "That's all I wear. You need to give me some free shoes." They haven't yet. In fact- [laughs]...
it's funny, I talked to Brooks about a beta program where they give free shoes to testers and influencers to try. And they turned you down? [laughs] They don't make... No, they don't make 15s in the beta program. Ah.
So my feet are too big. Really? It's hilarious, yeah. They just don't make- Kind of- They don't- Kind of a cool problem to have... they don't let people with big feet test them. Time out. You have a size 15 shoe?
Yes, since I was 15 years old. Damn. He's way bigger than you think. Yeah, he's huge. Isn't that crazy? I'm, like, 6'4", 6'5". Whoa. Right? Holy moly.
You would ne- I- Yeah, I would've, I would've thought 5'4" Big dude, yep. [laughs] 205 to 215- Yeah [laughs]... depending on how much I run that week. Yeah, I'm a big man. Damn, dude. My feet are huge.
Yeah, I'm like 5'11". Yeah, your feet are huge. Yeah, I got, like, I'm like a, I'm like a 10 and a half, 11. A 15? Yeah. Man, come. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but, uh- But shout out Brooks. Yeah, shou- shout out Brooks.
I love my Glycerins. Brooks, if you're listening- Same... I'll, I'll, I'll take a, I'll take a new pair of Glycerins. [laughs] Anywho, and like right now is, like, a perfect moment. It's...
The arct- it's frozen tundra outside. I have- Yes... trying to make it through flu season. I literally have two sick kids at home. My wife is also not feeling well. And so it's, it's, it's just- Been there...
trying to, like, make it through, like, the daily life, and I joke that, like, sometimes it feels like Groundhog's Day. And you're like, you just do the same stuff over and over and over again.
And the reason why, like, I reached out in the beginning is just because, like, that Vulnerability podcast, and just the podcast in general, are just, like, so relatable to me as a dad.
I have a really close knit of guy friends, you know, five or six, but really only one of them has kids. And so he's been, like, my best friend since I was, you know, sixth grade.
You know, 20, 20-plus year friendships, but they don't have ki- [laughs] they have, they just don't have kids, and so they can be sympathetic. I don't think they can necessarily be empathetic. Mm. Yeah.
If that makes sense. It does. And so trying to find a community of dads, it, it, it gets... Or you have, like, dads, and then you have dads who are, like, in sales or are, like, entrepreneurs.
It's like it, the circle gets much smaller. And so, like, whenever I'm listening I'm just like, "Oh, yeah, that's... " Whenever I listen to you guys I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that's me. That's me. That's me."
And like, so I just, uh- It's a great feeling. Yes. Yeah. It, it's great to know there's people out there that resonate with us because sometimes we literally are flying by the seat of our pants. And we're like- Yeah...
who are we? Who's our core audience? Who cares? But then, you know, every episode we get messages like, "Hey, this, this really hit the s- the right spot." So it's like, okay, uh, there's- Yeah...
someone, someone out there- Yeah... resonates with it. Yeah. Yeah. I think you mentioned when you reached out to me you were like, "Hey, in 2026 I'd love to be a, a part."
And I think in 2025 we looked back at our messages, and every single screenshot Daniel sends me, and every single screenshot I send him of somebody being like, "Oh, I love the podcast," it's never, ever about the tech side.
"Oh, like, thanks for talking about dealing with Rippling." It's always about like, "Dude, I was up at 2:00 AM last night with my daughter- Yep... and, and this really resonated."
And so that's where we're like, you know what? We're gonna double down on that. I got a question for you. So you mentioned, number one, you didn't feel that way, your wife kinda took that emotional burden.
But number two- Mm... you did. I was the exact opposite, flip-flop. Number one, I was like, what on earth just happened? And then number two, Harrison, he was a lot easier, and I think I kinda knew what was going on.
Why do you think that is? Is it just having two? Is it, was she harder? Like, tell us more about that. No. I'm [laughs] really fortunate that I have, like, two great, they're just cute kids. They're so great.
The thing was, the moment after my daughter was born, like the day after she was born, I like, like, threw my lower back out, and I was in, like, so much pain. Dude, you and I are, like, the same so far. Yeah.
I- You're just talking about my life. I had never th- yeah, dude, I had never thrown my back out before. And, like, I exercise a ton, like, I do... I like to do, like, mobility work.
And, like, I had never been, like, so incapacitated and, like, basically, like, bedridden for, like, a week. And, like, in the moments where, like, my wife needed me the most, I, like, wasn't there. Oh, that's terrible.
Dude, I had back surgery, like, our first was, like, three months old, and I couldn't- Oh my God... pick him up for, it was either six or eight weeks. So just this baby, who I wanted to pick up- [laughs]...
and who wanted me to pick him up- Yeah... couldn't do it. [laughs] During his formative three months of ti- or whatever, two months of time, it's so frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. But I was paralyzed.
I mean, that, that surgery, I literally had to be wheelchaired into the hospital because I could only- Oh, wow... it was such, it was so bad. I threw my... It's like- Mm... you were saying threw their back out.
I was like, there's a scale. Uh- [laughs]... there are levels to the game. [laughs] Oh. Oh, yeah. I mean- How badly... [laughs] That's so, so frustrating. I was like a four or five out of 10. Like, I couldn't, like...
I was getting, like, muscle spasms, like, in the diaphragm. Oh, yeah. It clearly do- don't need surgery, but, uh- No, yeah. It was rough... yeah, I had to take stero- I had to take a steroid.
But I think it was that, and, you know, at the time I was at a seed stage startup company, and I just had a lot of both personal and professional responsibilities, and, like, the weight of that felt, like, mentally crushing- Yeah...
to me. And so, I don't know, I think it was just, like, that moment where I was like, holy cow, like, I, I am in charge of keeping two kids alive, making sure that they are taken care of.
You know, trying to, you know, be there for my wife, taking care of my own physical and mental health, which-It's still a struggle [laughs] at times. Yeah. And, uh, I don't know.
Like, our son was just, like, easy, and our daughter is easy, too, but it was just something about the entrance of a second kid where it's like, oh, okay.
Like, the things that I thought I could do, like, independently, I just can't. Like, I just, I just have to... I have to wake up at 4:00 AM to exercise so that I could not go mentally insane throughout the day.
Isn't that funny? I feel like back in college, exercise was to get gains. Yeah.
Like, I wanna be this, these, like, bodybuilder, and you go to the gym to, like, show off the biceps, but now it's like if I don't work out, like, I literally will lose my mind. [laughs] Yeah. Dude. It's not, it's not...
I don't care about gains. Like, I- Yeah... I just, I... If I don't run, I, I notice insanity creeping in after a week of not running.
So I'm like, "I have to go run," and when I do after, you know, a few days off my feet, I'm like, I can feel my insanity leave my body. [laughs] Yeah. It's just totally different motivations now. It- Yeah. It is. It is.
It's so big on the mental aspect- Yeah... of everything. It's huge. When we were in Costa Rica for... We were there for 12 days. I was, like, 14 days without working out, and I could tell, like, every day...
Uh, a- and I was in a beautiful place. Like, that kind of helped release- Sure... some of the, like, "Ah, I'm out of the gym," whatever.
Like, every day that went by, I was, like, slowly getting more stressed, more on edge, more just, like, frustrated and less patience. And I...
So I got back on, like, I don't know, call it a Thursday, and I went to the gym Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Didn't go Sunday.
Went Monday, and then as soon as, as this Monday, as soon as this Monday hit and I woke up at 4:00 AM and I went to the gym, I walked out of the gym like, "This is it. This is the life right here." Like- Yes... peace.
Get the, like... Again, love the kids, but you, you do need, in my opinion, I think you need alone time. I think people need alone time.
I got a treadmill three, four months ago now, and, you know, I, I love running outside. Right now and even in Charleston, it's, it's gonna be, like, 20 degrees this weekend. I have a half-marathon- It's cold there...
on Saturday, a week from tomorrow. So like eight days from now, it's gonna be 20 degrees when I start. I'm like, that's unfortunate. Could've just d- decided not to be 20 degrees for this half.
But, you know, I have found even the time alone for 30, 45 minutes on a treadmill to just give me a very similar mental effect. Like, get the sweat, get alone, like, go hard in the paint.
I wanted to call back to something you mentioned a moment ago that really resonated with me about your friends. Yeah.
I have a lot of friends that do have kids and then that don't have kids, and I've moved around a lot, too, so I have, like, different friends from different seasons of life.
You know, some that you're always gonna just be a ride and die. You just call them up. It's been maybe five years just, "Hey- Yeah... h- how are you doing?"
But then others, like, y- you change life stages, and you kinda, they, I don't know, they, they kind of fade away, which is unfortunate, but I think part of just growing up.
How have you found those relationships with the people who don't have families yet? Hm. How have they changed since now becoming a dad? Wow, that's a really good question.
Like I said, like, my core group of, like, six guy friends, like, I've literally... Guys, I have so many friends. Like, I have, like, six friends. [laughs] I've lit- I, I've literally, um- That's great.
That's, honestly, that's more than most people. [laughs] Six is a perfect amount. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.
No, I have literally, like, half of them I've been friends since, like, middle school, some since, like, 20, you know, 2010, and two of the guys that don't have kids were...
I, I lived with them in, uh, in downtown Chicago for, like, two and a half years, and now that life gets, like, super busy, I've made a concerted effort to try to...
One of them works downtown, um, so we actually just got lunch, like, the other day, and then I'm actually going to an event that he's putting on for some, like, charity thing that he's doing in, uh, middle of February.
And so I think just trying to be more intentional with my time because if you... I have found that if you don't prioritize things, um, life just moves quickly, and, uh- Yes...
I really cherish my friendships, and I, and I, and I want to... Like, I'm s- I think I'm, like, deep down, like, I'm, like, scared of, like, losing things, and I, and I, and I like stability in my life.
And so, like, I don't always... Like, I'm quick to communicate, but I'm not one to, like, quickly like, "Hey, are you f-..."
Like, I need to be better at, "Hey, are you free in, like, eight weeks from now, so us, for, like, so for us to hang?" [laughs] Right. You know? Yeah. "I'm actually free the last week of March if you're free.
Can you, like, put that on your calendar?" Is that the- He's like, "Yeah, sure." It's like free at top of Q2. Q1's a little bit booked now. [laughs] Right. No, I think it's just being m- more, more intentional- Yeah....
you know, with it and just trying to be more proactive with how you communicate with them, and it's just- Yeah... it, it, it's important to me. And, like, that, that, that goes back to if I go to see...
Like, it's an important part of my life, and I've made it clear to, like, my wife, and she, like, and she gets out. Like, it's just like working out. Yeah. Like, I need to work out.
Like, I need to see my friends, like, once a month and trying to, like... If I'm gonna go, I live, I live in, like, the northwest suburbs of Chicago. Yeah. Like, if I'm gonna go see my buddies in the city, it's a schlep.
Yeah. It, it, it's like- Oh, yeah. It's a whole thing. It, it's a, it's a whole thing, right? So- Yeah. I lived in a, I lived in Homewood for five years, so it's like- Oh, cool... a trip, a trip to the city is- Yeah...
it's, it's not like, oh, I always just, like, hop into the city for the day. Right. [laughs] It's, like, it's, it's a full day thing. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't just go for a quick- It's, like, six hours... trip.
It's like- Yeah. Yeah... you gotta... It's, it's like two hour, two, two and a half hours of driving, plus you're gonna- Yeah... chill with your friends for, you know- You gotta park... three, three, three-ish.
And then you gotta walk. Yeah. And, yeah. It's a whole- Yeah. Right. What I- But just being intentional. What I think is... Yeah. What I, what I love about that is you and your wife have communicated about this. Mm-hmm.
And I think that's so key for both of you, for you to give her the space to have those relationships that, of course, are just as important. Hm. But to communicate like, "Hey, I love my kids. I love you.
I love family time, but there's a, a native, instinctual need I have as a man to go beA doofus with the boys. [laughs] Yeah. Uh- Yeah.
And I, I think my wife and I have a very healthy boundary around this, for her for her friends, me with my friends, and it sounds like you do, too.
I think what I've seen, what I've, what I've observed just generally, a lot of people get married, start families, and then they lose that. And- Yeah...
whether it's because the couple, the s- they're not communicating with each other about their need, or- Yeah... they're trying to put on this facade that it's not a need. "Well, no, I have my wife now, or my spouse.
I have my kids. This is everything I need." There's, there's, there's a spectrum, and it's like on the one hand, yes, I have everything I could ever want in life, but there's, there's this
silliness and, and ridiculousness that comes from just going out, you know, a round of golf or going, you know, getting drinks with the guys, like, going even out for just a meal, getting some wings, watching the game.
Like, you're just, there's a part of you that just goes right back to the way it was before, and it is like a- Yeah...
a release of the, the, the ridiculous pent-up energy that comes from putting on a face and being a good dad, being a good husband, being a good worker. We wanna just be stupid sometimes- Yeah... as men. Oh, yeah.
I think most men can relate to this. Like, let me go just be silly. [laughs] Like- Yeah. [laughs]... I need, I need that time. I love that. I love that. I think I've, I've had some, I've had some,
I don't know, not encouraging, maybe discouraging conversations with friends over the years that I think have just been because life changes. Like, what do you talk about- Yeah... with friends who don't have families?
And, like, I have, I have friends that don't have kids. Like, I do. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Like, "Hey, how's..." How's work? Work. All right.
[laughs] And then, then you start complaining about work, and then they ask you, like, "Hey, how's work?" And then it leads into family. [laughs] Yeah.
It's like, "Well, yeah, my kids," and then it's like, well, you know, you can talk about it. Like, obviously they're, they're not, they're not totally clueless, but I just- Yeah...
found there's just the natural growing apart of b- but obviously it doesn't have to be that way. It sounds like there's a really good balance you've str- struck and s- struck, um- Stricked...
which is, I think, admirable... strucken stricked. [laughs] No idea what the past tense is. Strike, striketh. You strike it. Striketh. With, with thine. Strike it. The, thee striketh. Um- [laughs] Yeah, strike it...
it's, it's tough. Yeah. It's, yeah. And being intentional. It's r- Yeah. It's really hard. It is. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and be like, "Oh, well, I'm, I'm so great at, like, all of it." Yeah.
It's just, like, it, it, it's such a- And if you're Aaron's friends listening to this and you don't have kids, shame on... No, I'm kidding. [laughs] No. I think one- No...
one other thought I had, my wife and I have standing meetings with some people. Mm. Primarily every, every Tuesday night we meet with one couple who we're friends with. They have kids our age. We,
we, we kind of, like, mentor each other. That's not really how I would frame it, but, like- Mm-hmm... every week we get together and it's like, "All right," like, "what's, what's heavy today? Let's talk."
Like, "How's the marriage? How's the kids?" They ask us, we ask them. It's very much like a mutual helping of y- of each other, just to be better husbands and wives- Mm... and parents and workers.
We have that every Tuesday, and then on the... Well, we have something every Tuesday. So every other week, we have that, and then on the off weeks, we have a meeting with someone else who's actually much older than us.
Their kids are our age, and it's- Mm... very much like, "Help us be better." And I've found that without those standing
times, whether it's weekly or biweekly or monthly or whatever it is, it's just, life just goes by so fast. I was talking to Courtney- So fast... about a date we have planned, uh, middle of next month.
Her, her birthday is the middle of February, and- So still Q1. Yeah, Q1, but I'm like, I'm like, we, we need to figure out babysitting for this, you know- Yeah...
this date on, you know, th- three weeks from now, and it's, like, a, it's an important date.
We have babysitters, but it's, like, it's gonna be hard 'cause it's also Valentine's weekend, so it's like, oh, it's a whole thing. And they're like, "We'll figure it out." I was like, "Three weeks is gonna...
Like, I'm gonna blink my eyes and that day's- Yeah... gonna be here." And that's just how it is. Y- we just can't, we can't think linearly like we used to. It's like you gotta- Yeah... think months at a time.
Anyways, without going on a tangent, I love what you're saying, Aaron. Yeah. This is, uh, this is great. And Aaron, I wanna, I wanna go back to, I wanna go back to, so your daughter's eight months, and- Yeah...
m- you mentioned it, which that probably flew by, but you mentioned it, right? Yeah. Number one, not too bad for you. Number two, definitely kind of probably weighing on you more mentally. Um, is it still? Yeah. Okay.
I would say so. And one, I commend you for even talking about it because I think I am really bad at that, and I think Daniel's really good at talking about it. At least what I've heard from you, Dan.
I don't wanna speak for you. But I'm bad at talking about when I'm struggling. Like, I'm, I'll, I'll just go to the gym or I'll just keep it all bottled up. And what do you do when you...
Like, are you talking with your wife about it? Are you also keeping it bottled up? 'Cause, like, "I'll just get through it. Like, we'll, we'll, we'll be fine." What do you do? Therapy. Nice. Nice. Love it.
Yeah, unpack that. We are huge advocates. We are- We are... huge advocates for therapy, but yeah- Unpack that-... unpack that... and talk about it. We need, we need more of this on the podcast.
Uh, yeah, I've been in therapy for s- six, seven years now. Work with someone, therapist that we do, like, it's called, like, CBT. Yeah. I can't remember what it stands for. Very familiar. Yeah.
Cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, cognitive- Ooh... behavioral therapy. Yeah. There you go. Well, lucky psychologist or whatever. Great. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, it's fine. No, no biggie.
It has helped me, um, try to, like, unpack and, like, decouple, I think like most people, or at least in, and I shouldn't say most people. Well, actually maybe most people, but a lot of people in sales.
I, like, I tie my self-worth to my, my quota performance. Mm. And- Talk about it. Yeah. It's like, how I'm doing at work really impacts me and how, like, the energy that I bring.
Like, I'm, I'm at home today, and, you know, prior to, to COVID, I was in the office five days a week, and then I had a five-year stretch of working at home by myself.
And as you can tell, I'm a little bit of a Chatty Cathy, and am, was lonely.Yeah. Still, I didn't really recognize like, kind of like the slow burn of being alone.
And so when I took this job back in October to work at Amazon, it was a... It's a five-day a week, like in person, uh, in downtown Chicago. So I commute like two and a half, three hours a day round trip. Oh, wow.
A lot of people are like: "You're nuts. Why would you do that?" And it's like, I think at like this point in my life, like I, I need it. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
And so, yeah, I, I think that, um, going to therapy, you know, maybe for like our parents' generation to talk about it was taboo. I don't think it's taboo. Like I, I clearly don't care. I don't either. I need it.
I want it. I think it ultimately will help me. I've seen therapists my whole life. Uh- Yeah. [laughs]... I don't currently, but like even, even back when it was taboo, I'm like I was straight up- Yeah, yeah...
like best friends with the therapy- Yeah... 'cause it's like I just had a crazy childhood. But I think therapy- Yeah...
my opinion actually, strong held opinion and vocalized opinion, is everyone should see a therapist at one point in their life at least.
'Cause I think everyone has stuff to unpack that they just don't know how to get through without the help of others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was it- That is, I couldn't, I couldn't explain it or sum it up better than that.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Daniel's good at summing things up. You're really good at it, Daniel. [laughs] I try. I try. Do you... Was it hard for you to go six to seven years ago, like to get started?
Or were you like, "No, I need this"? Oh, no. I had a, I, I had a panic attack at work. [laughs] Got it. Got it. Uh, yeah. Just to describe, I had like a panic attack. Are you willing to talk to us about that? Yeah, sure.
I was... How old was I? Twenty-three? Yeah, I wasn't sick. Wow, I'm 34. That was a long time ago. It was like a decade ago. Uh- Okay... it was like right after... Sometimes I forget how old I am. Same. Every day.
[laughs] Yeah. I think it must have been like 2015. Yeah. I'd really just, like just entered the workforce and, uh, just had like a bunch of responsibility, and I... Yeah. At a job where
it was just really stressful and like I had like a really like bad call with like a client, and I like literally went to the bathroom and like started like hyperventilating. And I had never had a panic attack before.
Uh, and then like didn't really like know what was going on. Came home and like I just like started like sweating and like couldn't like really like catch, like get a deep breath. Yeah.
It was like kind of at that time where I was like, all right. Like, I had never really had like anxiety in childhood, in high school, college, and I got to the workforce and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Dude.
It was really tough, so. I've had two panic attacks in my life. Yeah. Me too. Me too. Sorry to interrupt you there, Troy. Two. It's like, it's... First one was shockingly out of nowhere after- Yeah... our first was born.
I mean, I, I couldn't, I couldn't bring myself to for, I don't know, it was 15, 20 minutes. My wife was obviously very concerned, and I was like, you know, heart rate through the roof.
Looked like I was gonna pass out, like- Yeah... bad. First panic attack I've ever had.
Second one was last year, also came up out of nowhere, and it was during a period of time where I, I wasn't able to exercise because of an injury, and there was some stressful things happening at work and, and in real life and, you know, everything kinda comes to a, to a halt.
And, uh, that's why I'm such a firm believer in trying to get ahead of it proactively and, you know, there's guardrails you set up for yourself in life to make sure you're kind of checking the boxes of the tenants, as it were.
I don't know how else to put it. But like, you know, are, am I eating healthy? Am I exercising? Am I getting with the people I need to get with? Am I talking to my wife about the things I need to talk with my wife about?
Loving my children. Like, there's things that if you dismiss them one day at a time, you're fine and you just pick it back up, but if you go weeks without really investing in these tenants,
I think your, your brain starts to freak out. I mean, at least mine does. Troy- Yeah... what were you about to say? No, no, no. Um, I had two. Mine were completely... They were just dumb. They're a dumb panic attack.
But they're not dumb because it, it's, in my opinion, it's life-changing. Mine are so dumb. Mine was from smoking weed. So stupid. Is that a panic attack?
Uh, it was in high school, and I freaked out both times when I tried. It certainly could be. I, I couldn't tell you. But I mean- I don't know... certainly could be. Panic, anxiety attack, paranoid? I don't know.
But man, I, I felt like I was gonna call the cops for myself. It was... That's why I've never done drugs because I was like, you know what? Those two times were so bad, I never wanna experience something like that again.
But Aaron, there's a, there's a message from you, and it was about, like, thank you for being vulnerable, but something you also mentioned in that message was, "I also think about death more than I should."
If anybody has listened to this podcast, you know that I think about it too often, and I'm scared of it. It's my biggest fear. Yeah.
And we've talked on this podcast about you blink and time just goes by, and that scares me. Like, even just thanking that, I'm like, damn, like I'm not doing enough with my life right now. Yeah.
Tell me more about that because I feel like a lot of people think about it, but they don't really say it. I don't think about my own. I think about my parents.
I lost three out of my four grandparents before I was six years old. I never really like got a relationship with my grandparents to be honest- Yeah... except for my mom's dad.
And I don't know, like it's, you know, growing up you think your parents are invincible, and then you realize they're just normal people just trying to figure it out. [laughs] And then- Yep...
you know, you see your parents get older. You know, my parents are in their, uh, late 60s now. A good buddy of mine, his dad passed away, you know, four or five years ago, and then I was just like, "Holy shit."
I don't know. Like, there's a thing in, in, in therapy that I've worked on. There's like an exercise called like leaves on a stream.
It's like an exercise where you let thoughts kind of like just pass by, you know, and don't let it like really consume you 'cause I'm bad at that.
Like, I let things really consume really the forefront like of what I'm thinking about, and I let it take up too much, like, mental space and actively just like trying to work on that.
And like why I was making like a joke earlier about morbid humor, it's like, oh yeah, you guys hear we all die.
When I talk about like the support system that I have, like I like worry about, oh, like the parents are like gonna pass away, like, and, and it like won't be here and like, what, like figure, like get all out and like I just like love them so much.
Like, I can't imagine like a world without them. I don't know. It's just tough and, you know, Dad had a, you know, a, a small health scare.
My mom had, you know, a, a small little thing, and it's like, damn, my parents aren't invincible. And-This is, like, such, like, a classic thing that happens to, to many, you know, people.
But it's like you may or may not have a good relationship with, with your parents, like, growing up. Then, like, I went to college, and it's like, "Oh, Mama, could you just, like, send me more money? Da-da-da."
And then, you know, you realize- Classic... after... Like, we moved, like, me and my wife moved to the suburbs, like, 15, 20 minutes away from, from my parents, and that was definitely, like, intentional because- Yeah...
I have recognized the importance of seeing my parents- Yeah... and seeing my in-laws more. Like, it's, it's really important, um- Did you-... to me.
Did you only recognize that because they're getting older, or once you actually had kids and realized everything they went through to get you to where you're at? I think both. Um, so I'm one of three.
Uh, I have two younger siblings who are twins. They're gonna be... They're 29. And my... When I look back at, at what my parents did within, I think, like, a span of, like, I think...
Yeah, like, my mom had me and my two siblings. So I was, like, five, and my siblings were, like, two, and then my mom's mom had passed away, like, after, like, a long battle with leukemia.
And I didn't know that, like, my mom was, like, str- like, how... When I was five. You know? Like, but my mom- Yeah... was, like, struggling. Yeah. And it was really, really, really tough on her.
And then I think, like, having kids, like, really brought it all together.
And, you know, things have happened to me this year personally, professionally, and just, like, you really don't know what, like, unconditional, like, love is until, like, shit hits the fan.
And I'm just really fortunate for people in my corner. That's, like, kind of the theme of 2025 was to, um... And really poured into this year [laughs] is, like, be fortunate. Show appreciation for your loved ones
because in an instant, you know- Yeah... it, it could, it could change. And I hate to, like, say it like that 'cause, you know, like, it's such a drastic way. Yeah. But I, like, think it's- It's the truth.
It's kind of true. It's the truth. I think that's spot on. There's no hiding it. Yeah.
Like, we both, all three of us have unfortunately had to cross that bridge in our lives, you know, where you think you have more time with someone, and you just don't. You know, sometimes you just don't. Mm-hmm.
We, um, we have to bring the episode in for a landing, but I wanted to ask Aaron, if you could leave one memory or, or characteristic of yourself for your children, what would it be?
What would you wanna be remembered for by your kids? Don't be afraid to love people really hard in whatever- Mm...
way that you think that that is, whether that's being loud, rambunctious like myself, whether that's being maybe more quiet. Love your kids hard, and love your loved ones as hard and hold them tight. And, uh,
it's okay to be vulnerable, and it's okay to cry, and showing up every day and being there for them is, it's the biggest blessing of my life. So yeah. That's- What a beautiful- That's beautiful. Beautiful ending. Yeah.
I mean- We should just end it right there. Boom. [laughs] Take this candor out. [laughs] And scene. [laughs] I think, I think, uh- Yeah. Aaron, I really appreciate it.
I, I can, I can see the way that your own journey with vulnerability just shapes who you are now, even in this conversation we've had, albeit short. I think some of the takeaways,
be vulnerable with your family, but be, be vulnerable with your friends. Yeah. I think that's...
If I were to sum up what I know about Aaron from these short, you know, 40 minutes or so is, you know, don't be afraid to tell people what you really think and feel and, and, and, and the good and the bad.
I think people are more nimble than we give them credit for when you just open up and share the truth of what's really on your heart, what's on your mind, and- Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you, Aaron.
This has been such a good episode. I think a lot of people are gonna resonate with this. For sure. Men are just not as good as we can be at being vulnerable.
I appreciate vulnerability so much in my life, but I think, you know... I see my wife meet with her girls. Girls just, I think, are better at it. Generally speaking, I'm making this huge, broad paintbrush here, right?
[laughs] There's so many exceptions.
But I'm like, you know, they, they put their feet up on the couch, and they're wrapping their arms around their legs, and they just have their cup of coffee, and they're just, like, they love talking about their lives with each other.
And I'm like, there are men that can really talk and get, and get there together, but in general, I think dads just don't [laughs] wanna do that. It's exhausting. Yeah.
But I think once we start to feel how much value and, and change and transformation comes from that- Yeah...
whether it be through therapy or just consistent relationship and vulnerability with people, I think we start to realize, "Oh, this has to be a tenet of my life." But, Aaron, we appreciate you, man.
Thank you to the people listening for listening. Subscribe, follow, find us on twodadsintech.com. Of course, this will be on YouTube as well. If you're listening, you can go watch it. Aaron, where do they find you?
Oh, man. You can find me online. I'm a weird serial poster on LinkedIn. Nice. So I try to post, you know, four to five times a day.
[laughs] Anything about the e-com, logistics, you know, third-party logistics stuff, hit me up there. That's great. Supplychain@aaronhodes.com. That's my, uh- All right... my work email. And, uh, yeah. Okay.
Thank you guys for, for having me on. Pleasure and honor. Thank you, Aaron. Of course. Thanks for joining. And everyone listening- Thanks for joining... we'll see you next week.