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Welcome back, listeners. I'm Troy Monson. And I'm Daniel Burke. And together, we- Oh, am I saying it? [laughs] Welcome back, listeners. I'm Troy Monson. [laughs] Welcome back, listeners. I'm Troy Monson.

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And I'm Daniel Burke. And together, we're Two Dads and Tech. Every episode, we talk about things people think about but don't talk about. I think that's good. I feel like it needs a sign-off.

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So why don't we just get into the episode? Yeah, let's get started. We are back. The one and only Daniel Burke, happy birthday. How are you, man? The only Troy Monson to ever walk the earth, happy birthday.

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How old are you? The, the... 45 by now, you gotta be at least, all these birthdays we've had the last few weeks. Yeah, 45 next podcast. Just turned 44 today. Ah. Today. Okay. Okay.

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Yeah, so I just actually just celebrated with my wife, which is why I was a few minutes late. We go out and get lunch every week. There you go. This was the day. And, um, we got Mexican.

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We went to a Mexican restaurant, and I, I don't know about you- Love it. Love it... I switch it up at Mexican restaurants, right? Some days I'll get tacos. Other days I'll get fajitas. Mm-hmm. And I'll get enchiladas.

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Today, I went burrito. [laughs] Burrito. Burrito. I know, I know. I, I've actually been on this weird burrito obsession recently, but it must have been 1200, 1300 calories. I have no idea. I'm just... I'm guessing here.

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Massive, yeah. Miserable. My stomach, sitting down right now- [laughs]... like, I might have to take a break mid-podcast because I am- I love it, intermission... miserable. I

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always fill up on chips in a way that I regret every single time the meal comes. Like, you know when there's the meme where it's like, "No, no, no, I don't want to eat four tortillas by themselves.

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That sounds disgusting." It's like, "Well, how about 87 chips?" Like, "Well, absolutely I'll have 87 chips." And it's like, that's like dozens of tortillas. That's just like- Yeah... straight up tortillas.

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So I'm a tortilla guy. I love my chips. I love my chips. There you go. I usually get the same thing, though. I usually... Well, actually, that's not true. My wife and I either share a huge fajita at our- Oh...

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go-to Mexican restaurant, massive. Like, there's leftovers after we both share this thing. It's, uh, it's called Margaritas. It's a restaurant, restaurant nearby. Love it. Or- Ooh... I get a bowl.

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It's basically like your Chipotle bowl, but it's made at a Mexican restaurant, so better ingredients. Pop Gons. I was so close to getting a bowl. Under the burrito section, it was...

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I think I just got, like, their classic burrito. But it said... What did it say? Like, "Do you want it drenched in queso? Do you want it drenched in salsa? Or do you just want it in a bowl?" The healthier option.

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So much of me was like, "Ooh, just give up that 100-plus calorie tortilla and just get the bowl," and I didn't do it. Gotcha. [laughs] And so- I love it... yeah. I love it. Oh, man. But question: Did you know that...

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And this could be a lie. I heard this maybe three weeks ago. Somebody tried to make me feel- Don't lie... really bad because I also- Don't lie... fill up on chips. Yes. And again, this could be a lie. I have no idea.

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I'm just listening to the internet, which usually people don't lie on the internet, so it should be the truth. No, everything on the internet- It-... is true. I think it's required.

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Did you know that supposedly four tortilla chips is the same amount of calories as one tortilla? Well, that's the s- right. Isn't that what we just decided is, well, four, four tortilla chips is a tortilla.

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Okay, so when you said tortillas, I thought you meant, like, actual four tortillas. No, no, no. F- uh, four tortillas, four tortilla chips equals a tortilla. It's... You're literally- Okay, sorry [laughs]...

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slicing a tortilla in fourths. W- we probably just got confused and whatever. Anyways- Look-... it's absolutely... Troy and I both have small children at home.

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We may or may not be recording this podcast with very little sleep. You can expect pretty much anything from us.

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Dude, we had the worst night last night, and it actually wasn't even bad, so I have to, I have to be grateful for it, but it was his worst- Yeah... night of sleep. Yes. And, you know, it is what it is.

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I recently jumped back on Celsius. I gave up all energy drinks for a while. Um- Ah, Celsius. We're back I've heard some things about that. We're back, baby. I know.

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I, I think I, I think I saw on TikTok the other day or maybe, like, six months ago there was this huge uproar about how it's so poisonous for you, so I decided to get an 18-pack. And so anyways,

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everything's poisonous, right? I don't know. That's right. That's right. If I'm not consuming microplastics at least three times a day, then it means I'm asleep. And even then, who knows?

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Mouth open, snoring, there might be something in the air. "There's something in the air tonight." Anyone? I don't know the rest of the song.

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I was singing all day, and my wife, right before I walked in here, was like, "You should sing the entire podcast." [laughs] Dude, should we do that? Should we do that? Oh, that would be so funny.

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Oh, man, that is hilarious. Speaking of singing, this has nothing to do- Yes... with it.

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When you're out in public, you're at a restaurant, are you the ones typically changing the diaper, or is it your wife that typically changes the diaper?

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You know, in this stage with our second child, it's, it's almost always my wife. Um, honestly, I'm not sure- Easy, easy... why.

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I, I think it's because my oldest is way easier for either of us to maintain, whereas my youngest, who's still eight months old, is, like, very particular and, uh, you know, privy to my wife, and it's just gonna be easier for her.

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I will also say I think it's just kind of, like, fallen that way. Like, I've, I, I've probably...

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There's a couple times I've tried to change Maverick's diaper in public, and I've gone into the bathroom, and there's not a changing table. Mm-hmm. I think this is an issue just in, in general.

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Like, men's bathrooms- Yep... don't have changing tables. They're like, "Oh, dads are obviously not gonna be changing diapers. Don't put a..."

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It's like, first of all, I changed a diaper on the floor of a gross public bathroom once with our first. I've done it, too. I was absolutely disgusted.

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I was like- YeahMy, my child has probably a disease from this floor, but, like, what do you do? There's, there's, there's poop coming out of the pants and on their legs, and it's like you gotta do it somewhere. Yeah.

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So, uh, usually it's my wife. She's a champ. Um- Yeah. But- Yeah. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. It's my wife. It's my wife. She does a lot of the p- and the same thing. I think it's more so the toddler is

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more difficult, and so I take the toddler because it's just more stressful. He's... I don't know about your three-year-old, Maverick, right? Yeah, I don't know about-- no, Everett. Everett. No. Everett. Okay.

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Everett's the three-year-old. Yeah. Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Maverick's the, the baby. Okay, got it. So Everett, is he crazy? My son is wild. He can be. Well, and the thing is, like,

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in this current stage, and you're in a very similar stage, your youngest is much younger, but, like, s- they're both less than a year old. They-- like, if they freak out, they need Mom. Yeah.

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It's just plain and simple, just science. Like, Mom. Yeah. [laughs] If my three-year-old freaks out, myself or my wife can handle it without issue. Yeah.

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Like, there's nothing my f- my three-year-old can do that I personally cannot deal with. Yeah. There are plenty of things my eight-month-old can do that I literally am incapable of solving. Yeah.

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And so I think there's some dynamic there. Um, but yeah, I mean, if we're all out, the four of us, it just, like, usually logistically makes more sense for me to stay with Everett and for her to take the, uh, the baby.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Liam's crazy. Liam's the other one. He's, he's a nutcase, but I'm gonna switch things up. Hot topic this week- Let's do it... on LinkedIn. Okay. DeepSeek versus ChatGPT. I haven't touched DeepSeek. Um,

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I've read a lot about it. I've read everybody's posts. It seems like everyone had a thought about it. Um, m- I just haven't heard Dan Oberg's thought about it, so here we are. Yeah. DeepSeek.

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Um, you're not a big Twitter guy, or X. I am. Uh- Mm-hmm... not saying anything about how I feel about all of the nonsense that happens on Twitter or the owner of Twitter, but I just use the platform, right?

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DeepSeek was a... A- anything that's a hot topic on LinkedIn has already been a hot topic on Twitter- Yeah... for at least a week. In some ca- in some ti- cases, like, months. Uh, LinkedIn's just pretty far behind.

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So, uh, it's actually part of my viral strategy is I'm just the first th- the first person to break something hilarious or meme-worthy from Twitter on LinkedIn. Um, anyways, DeepSeek, a lot of different directions.

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Some people are conspir- you know, conspiring or ha- have conspiracy theories about, well, okay, TikTok was banned.

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It's, you know, Chinese-owned, and now here's DeepSeek, you know, happened in the same span of, what, seven to 10 days. It's also Chinese-owned. Is there a coincidence here, or are they trying to get data in another way?

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Um, I honestly don't have an opinion formed on that. Uh, I think it is very telling, and I think VCs and Silicon Valley are obviously, you could even say, in an uproar.

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I think some might say that about, okay, well, why, why is OpenAI raising 500 billion, with a B, dollars for their, you know, entire operation if DeepSeek can do what OpenAI has done in a fraction of the cost, a fraction of the time?

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You know, I, I think it's... There's, there's logic there. It's valid to ask that question. I think it does undermine how much OpenAI has done. Like, OpenAI hasn't just built a ChatGPT.

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Like, it's not, oh, like, OpenAI equals ChatGPT. Like, ChatGPT is, like, one minute arm of OpenAI. Mm-hmm. So I think you gotta qualify the comparison with that.

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The second thing that I think is worth mentioning is actually something Sam Altman said. Uh, I'll paraphrase, but it's a tweet from maybe two, three weeks ago. And he said, "It is much easier,

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much easier to copycat something that's been done than it is to do something that's never been conceived of."

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And I think that's what sets OpenAI apart from any copycat currently, and not that I'm undermining all of them by calling them copycats, but- Right...

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of course, you have Perplexity, you have ChatGPT, you have tons of chatbots, and all of them have a lot of value, a lo- a lot of, you know, worth, and people love them for their different reasons.

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I think in, in some ways, OpenAI is like the Star Trek of AI. They're like... W- what's the, what's the saying in Star Trek? It's like, you know, venturing into the unknown. I don't know. I'm botching it.

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There's probably a Star Trek fan right now- [laughs]... that's just absolutely abhorrent, uh, what I just said. But, you know, they're doing... They're, they're,

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they're going into a space that has never been explored ever before in history, never even been conceived of. Yeah. So I still think OpenAI is probably going to win the race for the next foreseeable future.

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I have NVIDIA stocks. I'll say that. I'm a shareholder. Not selling. Didn't sell. Have no concern. Uh- Yeah. Yeah...

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it's not financial advice, but I think the GPUs that OpenAI is using are gonna continue being a, a high-value product for the foreseeable future. Yeah. Yeah, I don't really have too many thoughts about it.

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Um, I don't think that they did everything ChatGPT does for 6 billion. I think that there's a lot more to unpack there, but I don't know what that is.

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Um, what I have also heard was, and this is all just rumblings through LinkedIn. I'm not on Twitter, X, whatever, so you probably hear a lot more.

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But they essentially used Perplexity and ChatGPT's API to be able to get the information that they have and train it. So it's like- Yeah... they're using- It's a wrapper... the to- yeah. It's, I hear it's a- Yeah...

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I hear it's a wrapper. And so, I don't know. I don't think that, um... I think it's almost worrisome when you're like, "Holy cow, you can build a ChatGPT for 6 million and not 500 billion," but- Yeah. Yeah...

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I'm not-I'm not too concerned about it. I do feel like I need to try it because a lot of people say it's really good. But at the end of the day, do you care if China has your data? No. No. Look,

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th- this is what I, I know emphatically, and this is probably gonna offend a lot of people. A lot of people have everything that there is to track about you, whether you like it or not.

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Your Social Security's on the dark web, everything about you is on the dark web. It's being sold and changing hands. That's not a conspiracy. That's just factual. Yeah.

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So when people say, "Oh, data privacy," like, if I was a billionaire and I had, like, all these offshore accounts I was trying to protect and all this stuff, like, yeah, I would care.

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But I'm a nobody, and if someone wants to get my data, they can have it because I can't do anything to stop them. So, like, I'm very much so, like, maybe I'm on one side of the spectrum here, but- Yeah...

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they already have my data. Like- Yeah... there's nothing I can do to stop them from getting it. Like, I, I just, I don't, I don't operate on a plane where I care enough. I'm the same exact way. I don't think...

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What, what do they want about me? I mean, I don't know. I was gonna say, like- But maybe it's more so-... I'm so unimportant...

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maybe it's just like you get so much data about everybody in the US that there's some sort of power that you can have above the US. It's- Maybe that's it. I, I do- Yeah... I don't care.

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And when it comes to data and people pushing ads at me and things like that, push those ads. I don't wanna search. I don't wanna search for things that I want. Push ads. I just bought that...

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I bought that hat, by the way, that I think two episodes ago- Nice... we talked about. I bought it. Mer- uh- Dude... Merlin? No, what is it? No. Mairn now? Nors- Nostrand. Nors- But- Yeah. Nice...

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yeah, 'cause you, you wear Melon. This is, like, the off-brand. Melon. It's half the price. Yeah. Yeah. Um- Love it. I'll let you know how it goes. It said one to two days to ship.

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It took five, so, yeah, so far, eh, but- So far, eh. Eh. Yeah. If it falls apart in a few months, let us know because Melon will have a big, uh, plus one from the rest of us. They will. They will. Uh- So with the data,

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uh, there's a, there's a show on Netflix called Night Watch. Have you, have you watched Night Watch? No, but I have heard of it. Okay. It just came out with a second season. I won't give it all away- Mm-hmm...

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because, you know, I haven't watched the whole season, so spoilers, I'm only on episode two. If you haven't seen the first season, go watch it. It's a great show. Uh, it's a watchable show. I, uh, don't, don't...

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It's not the perfect show, but it's watchable. It's good.

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It's- The second season starts out with one of the main characters, she's a tech, uh, like, mogul, and she's this engineer of a startup, super, super smart, uh, engineer building a tool in this show that's...

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It's almost, like, Dark Mirror-y, this tool. The show itself is not, but this tool is just close enough to where we're at technologically in the world that I'm like, "Uh, we probably could launch that, like, this year."

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Yeah. What it does is it's called Ad... I can't remember the name of the tool. It doesn't matter. AdQuick. [laughs] G- No, I'm kidding. [laughs] I know, I know. That'd be funny. And today... No.

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[laughs] What, uh, what it does is it uses every single publicly accessible data point in the entire internet to build profiles on people, including, like, like, police scanners and, like, security footage and, like, public profiles.

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Like, every- Everything, okay... data point that exists, and it builds a listening device for companies to buy this data to have hyper relevant, personalized ads, not only to the people's devices, but, like, everywhere.

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Like, so much so- Around them... like you're walking down the street- They walk, yeah... and there's, like, a dynamic ad, and as you pass it, it updates for you. Like- Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I...

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Th- we're not that far, actually- N-... from doing that. No. Dude, we're not that far at all. But, well, to your point where you're like, "Sell me what you want," I'm like, "Yo, if you know what I want, okay." Buy it.

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[laughs] "I'll buy it." Like, [laughs] I, I, I mean- I have, I have no problem with it. Yeah, like, oh, crap, uh, one more hat. You got me. [laughs] I have, like, 40 hats in my closet, um- And 21- And 21 pairs-...

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anyways... of Reebok's briefs. That's right, at least 21. Yeah. I need to actually buy, uh, speaking of Reebok's, I need to buy another pack because I lost all this weight last year, so now half of them- Mm...

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are, like, too big. Uh, so I bought, like, a whole, like, I bought, like, 10 more pairs, and they're all the right size. Okay. [laughs] But now I have, like, 10 that I'm, like, swimming in. It's very...

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[laughs] Which I was actually going to text you the other day, 'cause every time I throw my Reebok briefs on now I think of you, and it's a weird time to think of somebody when you're throwing on your briefs. I...

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No, no, no, it's the perfect time. But- It's the perfect time.

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But, I was gonna say, Reebok briefs, and speaking of, like, this whole clothing conversation, how many times can you wear a pair of pants before you wash them? Yeah. So we're talking joggers?

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Let me, let me, let me, let me- Yeah, go ahead... let me clarify a little bit, okay? Uh, joggers you probably wash more than, like, jeans, but let's say- Yeah, yeah...

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let's say for both of the, for, for both of these, jeans and joggers. You're not sweating in them, you're just kinda wearing them around, um- Yeah... comfortable, things like that.

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Y- how, how many times can you wear them? A lot. I have, I've recently, I, I believe graduated in my, in my approach to this. Jeans, you're not supposed to wash jeans. Like, that's an opinion I've adopted recently.

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Yours are, like, crunchy. [laughs] If they're, like, if they're, like, outrageous, like they smell horrible, if there's like, they're, like, muddy and stained and stuff, like, wash them.

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But, like, for the most part, like, denim is not supposed to just be washed all the time. So I wash my jeans way less than I used to. Um- Yeah...

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I mean, I might get, I might get dozens of wears out of them if I'm just g- you know, wearing them out and just, it's, you know, whatever. Yep. Joggers, I wear joggers a lot.

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Right now I'm wearing some Eddie Bauer pants, like, just regular, like, slacks.

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Um, joggers, slacks, stuff like that have three to five wears each, maybe, maybe closer to 10 if I'm literally doing nothing in them- Ooh, yeah... for the whole day. Yeah, no- Yeah... 10, 10 would be pushing it.

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But, like, I'm a big guy.So like, you put three pairs of joggers in the washing machine and it's full. [laughs] So it's like, like you, you gotta go through like several loads to wash all my pants. Yeah. What about you?

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Um, I have a real... I have a really bad habit of w- [laughs] when I'm wearing something, I just kinda take it off and I throw it on the ground. Like my wife- Mm-hmm... she keeps this entire house so clean. Yes.

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And so sh- the shirt that you're looking at now, which by the way, my half-marathon shirt. What up? What up? Um, there you go. Let's go. So the shirt- Let's go... it will find its way on the floor later, and I know that.

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And- Yes... and this is actually a, kind of another branch to this question, is how often do you wash shirts? 'Cause like I'm not sweating in this. I'll probably hang this right back up. I don't- Yeah...

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like I put deodorant on, this smells fresh. Yeah. It was just washed. Yeah. I'm sitting in a closet. Yeah. Why would I sit here and, and wash it to- tonight, right? Um- [laughs] Sitting...

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I always forget you're in a closet- [laughs] Dude... until you tell me. Like, oh. Everyone listening, he's sitting in a closet right now. Everyone watching, that's a good-looking closet, right? I mean, come on. It...

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I had somebody the other day, this girl, I try to raise funding from her. And she denied me, but we still keep in touch. She's incredible. She's like, "That is such a cool office."

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And I was like, "This, my friend, is a two-and-a-half-year-old's closet that I can touch the other side. There's a dog bed right here for my dog to lay." Like this isn't- Come on...

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where people want to work from, but March 15th, that's the, supposedly that's the date that- Let's go... I will be into- That's soon... the new crib. But all that to say,

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I have a really bad time of putting my clothes on the ground. And then when she's like, "Go pick up your clothes," or whatever, I'll throw it into the wash knowing that they don't need to be washed.

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So she's getting onto me like, "Does this need to be washed or not?" I'm like, "Uh- Yeah... no, I have another 10 wears for that." [laughs] So I don't wash that often. Yep, same.

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I'd say, like right now I'm actually wearing these corduroy joggers. I've been rocking- Ooh... these corduroy joggers that I found on Amazon. Okay. Okay. I bought- That's cool...

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one pair as a test, went out to public, all the friends, all the dads in the friend group were like- That's great... "Dude, what pants are those?" And I was like- Comfy... I went home- Yep... ordered two more pairs.

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I was like, "All right, there we go." Mm. Um, so love these $25- I do be liking the, the corduroys. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're fancy. They're... They make you look a little hip. I look young. I look like I say rizz.

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Um- That's right. That's right. Yeah. I'll probably wash them once every three or four wears, but it's a, it's more so because of me, 'cause I'm just like, ah- Yeah...

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I'll put it in the dirty clothes versus, versus hang it back up. Get your workout. Nah. I have a terrible habit of throwing the clothes I wear on like the same pile.

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We have this bench type of thing at the foot of our bed, and like I'll wear a piece of clothing that I'm just like, "Well, this isn't dirty," and I don't necessarily want it back in the closet because it's like not

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perfectly clean, but I might wear it again before I do my laundry. But the problem, the problem is I do that for like 10 different outfits.

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[laughs] So at some point, like we're ready to do laundry, and my wife is like, "Hey, what's dirty and what's clean in here?" And I'm like, "Honestly, I don't even know at this point."

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[laughs] It's, it's just so bad because then I have to go in and just wash everything, which really I probably shouldn't have had to wash everything, so. Yeah. Yeah, that's just like poor planning.

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That's poor planning on my part. Yeah. No, I have a... There's this box that sits in my closet, and again, we're in this apartment till the house is done, so we're pretty limited in space.

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And so there's this box that has all of my beautiful Reebok briefs as well as my Nike ones and my one pair of Skims briefs that I now wear a lot. Um, and it collects... It sounds like it's the bench.

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It collects all of my clothes. So that, that gray hoodie- Yes...

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that I wore on KD's episode, it's still sitting in that little box because I'm like, it's not dirty, but I don't wanna hang it up yet 'cause I might wear it soon. Yes.

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Oh, it's just sitting there, which speaking of the KD episode- Let's go... if you're listening to this, I'm sorry about that audio. That's on me. That's on me. But I did wanna ask you- Yes...

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how much would you sell your LinkedIn account for? Yeah, that's a great question.

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For those listening and who haven't h- heard the last episode, KD's answer to this question was $7 million, and we asked it to him, and he was immediately prepared with that exact number.

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So, so, so Ke- Kevin Dorsey has thought through this question. I have, I have gotten several full-time positions in the last 10 years from LinkedIn. I've made money from contracts. I started a business and got clients.

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LinkedIn has made me money, um, a lot. I attribute a lot of success to LinkedIn. The- But what would it take me to just log off for the last time, never get back on? I think I would- Cash. Cash, no taxes. Yeah.

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I think less, less than a million I would probably have to think long and hard about it. If someone said a million, I think I'd be like, "You know what? I know, I know how to... I, I'm gonna be fine."

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Like, I'm good enough at other things. Well, I guess caveat, am I allowed to get another LinkedIn and start from scratch? No. Okay. So then a million, I think a million-plus would be the conversation.

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If someone said 5 million, I'd be gone. Wouldn't even think about it. I'd say yes, no questions asked. 1 million I think is where that conversation starts.

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5 million and no one will ever have to try to see something again. [laughs] Oh, I'm gonna be trying to see something on every other social platform. Yeah. I saw you post that- What about you?... last night. Um,

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so I think about it, my, my number at first was like 3 million. And, and then I'm, I'm thinking about it probably the same way you are. If I had zero- Yeah... LinkedIn, one, what would I do with a lot of my day?

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I'm not, I'm not too sure. [laughs] Yeah. Um- Yeah... because that's where I prospect, that's where I get bu- Like, that's where I spend most of my time for business. That's where 90% of our revenue comes from for Demo.

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Yeah. Yeah. So I was gonna say 3 million. Um- Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Just toss me 3 million, cash, no taxes, and I could find a way to make things work. Yep. Um-But it would be, I, I

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literally I'm sitting here thinking what would I be doing right now? If I didn't have LinkedIn- Yeah... what would I be doing? I don't know, maybe I'll go start X or whatever you call it. That's a good question. Yeah.

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No, I know. It, it definitely, answering the question requires asking a lot of questions. Now, I do have a question on that note.

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LinkedIn, 90% of your business is coming from LinkedIn at Demo, and we have been talking a lot about prospecting in the last few episodes, SDRs versus AEs. Katie's, you know, hot takes last week were great.

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What does a typical cold outbound sequence look like for you? Does it include cold calls, DMs, cold emails? Like, what, what's the 10 to 15 part sequence? Or, or less or more- I have no- I don't know.

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Maybe there's different parts. I don't know. Yeah. I have no, like, automated sequences running right now.

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Now, what I do, and this is very specific to my ICP, which is, like, I'm selling to essentially VP of sales and VPs of marketing at SAS companies. Yeah.

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And so a lot of what I do is I like to call it burst right now, and it's kind of what I'm doing, where I'm hitting somebody up on every channel possible in about the span of three weeks. So- Mm-hmm...

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what I think is really interesting is if, if you can get their mobile number or even their office number if they're in the office, and I send a connection request to you and I see that you accept it, I personally believe that you should immediately make a cold call right there.

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Like, you know they're not in a meeting, you know they're not really working. Maybe they are in a meeting, but they're not paying attention to it. Give them a cold call. They just accepted your request.

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It might be time to- Yep... to strike while the iron's hot. Um, and then I like to send emails, and the way I do it is, like, each burst has a specific value prop.

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So for example, when I was selling Proofpoint, it was like, okay, there's email security that we sell, but there's also data loss prevention. There's also all these other things like ChatGPT security that we sold. Yep.

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So, like, it would be like this CISO at this company. For the next three weeks, I'm gonna go hard on a cold email sequence.

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None of it's automated, and it's just me saying, "Hey, I'm gonna send him a, a LinkedIn connection request. I'm gonna see if there's anything that I can like or comment on on LinkedIn. I'm gonna email him.

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I'm gonna cold call him." I'm gonna do really everything that I can. But those are like- Yeah... the three main channels that I use.

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But at Proofpoint, I also did a lot of drop-offs, which is kind of how I booked most of my meetings there, is just driving to their headquarters. Yeah. 'Cause bigger companies are typically in the office.

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But that's what I do. I do it for three weeks. And so, like- Love it... there's no perfect sequence. I don't think that there's a perfect sequence. I just think that there's- Agreed...

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ways to stand out, and I went three for four the other day on follow-ups because I just sent, "Look, actually, yo, SalesLoft, what up? Come on. Randy, Randy Littlejohn at SalesLoft." That's right. "Respond to me."

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Love it. I just sent that right before lunch. And so- Yeah... I hit him up on LinkedIn, and then I sent that, and we'll see. Like, we'll see if he does anything. I don't have a sequence that I follow.

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I know that was a long-winded answer. But I do have little bursts that I do, and I do it all in the span of three weeks. Yeah.

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Put them in, like, a little drip campaign, and then I'm back at them in, like, a couple of months. So unless there's like- Love it... a signal that I get, right? Like, oh, they're hiring or oh, whatever.

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Like, then I'll reach back out. But yeah. Or they- That's what I do... something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think LinkedIn Sales Nav makes a lot of those signals, like, super easy to, to pick up on. Yeah.

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I know people still doing grassroots stuff like Google News and, like, following profiles and stuff. I- yep. Like, there's not really a right way to do it, just as long as you're listening for those signals. Yeah.

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Yeah, I think I've worked, I've worked in a lot of different sales roles with, uh, you know, different sales teams and then also different sales agencies, like, you know, the offshore agencies.

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And everyone, like, has the golden goose egg, as it were, but it's, like, always different. It's like, all right, we're gonna do a 14-part sequence. We're gonna have a cold call, three emails, a LinkedIn DM- Yep...

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and then you're gonna do a multi-thread with their superior. It's like, hopefully that works. It's like, okay, we're just gonna, like, hit the phones. Like, okay. Like, you know, it's... I, I agree with your statement.

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There is not one way. And I think it heavily depends on your ICP. Oh, yeah. For, for some ICPs, I think doing the, like, uh, the long nurture of being familiar in their comments, replying on their LinkedIn DMs- Yep...

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and being, like, around, adding value, and then one day you jump into their DMs and it's just, like, organic. I've seen a ton of value with that. Yep. Because a lot of my ICP is living on LinkedIn. Not all of them. Yep.

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I think as we're swimming upstream, uh, it's a lot more very methodical, like, deep dive, heavy research, you know, going into the Time magazines of the world.

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Like, you're not just, like, gonna slide into DMs and, you know, and talk to Time Magazine. But I think there's so many different approaches based on who you're actually, what, who's the account.

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Um, brings me to my next question. Are you an inbox zero type of guy? Now I am, and I have been for seven, six, seven months or so. Why? Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm not an in- Mm... an inbox zero type of guy.

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I've never been an inbox zero guy. Honestly, I live in a constant state of chaos. The problem is I get hundreds of emails per day,

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legitimately, a- across, like, several email accounts, and it's important to me, particularly in my role, that I stay on top of them, or else I risk losing out on timely deals, you know, particularly signals.

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If you don't jump in the inbox at the right time, you're losing out on, on massive opportunity. And so I used to use Apple Mail. Ooh. But trying to manage your inbox in Apple Mail is horrendous. It's legit- Oof...

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so frustrating. So it would crash all the time. I'd actually have to restart my computer. The search functionality was terrible. Threading makes no sense in Apple Mail. But then one day I discovered Superhuman,

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and if you- Mm... have not used Superhuman email client, I kid you not-It makes everything 100 times better.

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I can search for emails more quickly, I can race through hundreds of unread emails in a 10th of the time, and with the AI search functionality, which they launched a few months ago, I can legit put any keyword at any point in the inbox, like someone's name, some subject matter, and they're gonna regurgitate this conversation that could've been months ago in this very easy-to-digest one-liner or paragraph, and I can do all this at light speed.

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With Superhuman, it's accurate and it's summarized for me in real time, so I can get through hundreds of emails in an afternoon, whereas back in the day, it was an undertaking.

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And I'm not even using, like, 90% of what's possible with Superhuman, and it's still that much better. Do you use Superhuman? Have you ever heard of it? I do use Superhuman. I do.

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And I'm gonna have a full circle moment here, but why are you bringing up Superhuman? Superhuman is today's Two Dads in Tech sponsor. Thank you, Superhuman. Troy and I both, it sounds like, use Superhuman, and- Crazy...

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I mean, I kid you not, it is a life-changing app. It is- It's awesome...

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uh, I think even before Superhuman sponsored us several episodes ago, we talked about what is one tool you couldn't live without, and Troy's answer actually was Superhuman.

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Dude- And I can absolutely echo that sentiment Unknowingly, that they'd sponsor. Unknowingly that we were even gonna reach out to them.

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I think you [laughs] I think we posted a clip on LinkedIn, and I was like, "Yeah, I can't live-" Yep... "without Superhuman."

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And then they commented on it, and then you reached out to them and was like, "Hey, you wanna sponsor us?" Mm-hmm. And, and it all- It's a classic, classic sales cycle.

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[laughs] I said, I said, "Hey, noticed that you liked a comment." I... Dude, I did this for a year with Tyler Denk at Beehiiv.

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People would like his posts, and I would, I would reach out to every single person- [laughs]...

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that liked every single one of his posts on Twitter and on LinkedIn, literally with the line, "Hey, noticed you liked this post. Wanna chat? Let me know if you need any que..." You know. Yeah. Super easy.

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I got hundreds of conversations that way. But yeah, that's how we got to know, uh, Matt and the team over at Superhuman, and, uh, that is why- That's good...

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they're today and February's sponsor in, uh, Two Dad The Tech podcast. Yeah. So I'm in love with it. Um, I'll tell you my quick full circle story with Superhuman.

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When I first downloaded it, I hated it, but mainly because everybody, especially sellers, they hate change, right? Like, they get stuck in their cycle and they wanna work the way that they work, and I totally get it.

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I kept seeing everything like, "Oh, try Superhuman. It makes you go through emails so much faster." I'm like, "Who gives a crap? Like really, who cares? It's just email, right? At the end of the day, it's just email."

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Yeah, yeah. Tried it, and I was like, "Dude, this sucks. It's so confusing." Um, I love, I love the speed in the beginning of it, but I was like, "Ah, it's like so confusing. There's all these hotkeys.

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I can't get used to it. I don't know how to be inbox zero." I'm one of those guys that has like 100,000 unreads in my junk mail that I just haven't clicked on. So- Insane... anyways, I know. I hate it, but whatever.

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It is what it is. And so I reached out to the CS team and I said, "Hey, I don't really think I'm liking this. Can you at least jump on a call with me and let me know, like, why and how I should be using this?"

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We jumped on a call. He was like, "This is what I recommend just to make sure that you get into that inbox zero mentality," 'cause it really is a mentality.

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Like, you wanna make sure there's nothing sitting in your inbox. And even then, two days after, I was like, "Nope, this isn't for me." But I gave it two days.

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I kept trying, I kept trying, and I don't know what that magic moment was- Yeah... but I was like, "Holy cow. This is the best-" The best... "email client that I've ever used."

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And so I reached out to the referral team, like, I was like, "Hey, let me be an influencer marketer for you." Mm-hmm. "Pay me money and I will shout out your tool- Yes... on LinkedIn."

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And they're like, "Uh, we don't really do that. We do this, uh, affiliate program where you get money for every signup." Yeah. And I was like, "I don't really work that way." Um- Yeah... because you can't...

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LinkedIn is, LinkedIn's algorithm and what they choose to boost and stuff is not up to me. It's true. Right? And so I'm like, "I don't work that way. It's like a flat fee." Anyways- Yeah... full circle moment.

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Here we are. They're our sponsor. Full circle moment. They weren't willing to work with me as an influencer, but now all you have to do is talk about- That's right... different stuff and [laughs] That's right...

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give me... Yeah. That's right. But- And here we go... I love it I mean, we got 3 or 4 million impressions last month. Let's see if we can do it again this month. Dude. Damn. Um, it's exciting. It's exciting. Yeah.

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And, and it's funny because Beehiiv all uses Superhuman, and Beehiiv is a newsletter platform, so Superhuman and Beehiiv are not competing whatsoever. Superhuman is an email client, Beehiiv's a newsletter platform.

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But I have, like, we, we all at Beehiiv have, have, like, seen the world open up from using- Dude... Superhuman. And it's funny 'cause the adoption thing, I had an issue adopting it at first.

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I would use it periodically, but I kept going back to Apple Mail every time, being so frustrated, but it's just what I've used for, like, 10 years. One day I was like, "You know what? I'm deleting this from my computer.

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Like, Apple Mail just isn't gonna be an option anymore." That's- Mm... when the light, the, the light bulb went off. I was like, "Oh, this is just so much better." And it's the speed- Yeah... for me.

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It's the speed that got it. I mean- Dude... it, it just searches stuff so freaking fast. The searching, the creating an email. I don't know if this happened- Mm-hmm...

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for you, but in the, in Gmail, 'cause I was a Gmail user, not an Apple Mail user- Yeah... so I can't compare with that, but when you CC and BCC someone- Ooh... it takes so many seconds to load. So much.

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Such a small thing to complain about, but it bothered me so much because when you're working with a team, it's like you're emailing this person, you're CC'ing these people- Yep... and oh, it frustrated me.

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And then I had to attach, when I would click the, the paper clip thing- Yep... it would take a little bit for the thing to pop. Crazy. All I have to hit is Command+U or Command+S+U and I can attach something.

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Command+Shift+U is, is attach. Yep. And then it's just like a... Crazy. I have auto-BCC on. Every email I send BCCs HubSpot automatically. It's just automatic. Mm. Really?

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I don't even remember how I did it, but I have auto-BCC on, and so every single email I send in my inbox, unless I take off the BCC, which I do sometimes, goes to HubSpot. It's like- Yeah...

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that alone is worth paying a monthly fee for it. [laughs] Yeah. It's so nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna pivot. Anyway, Superhuman, that is our sponsor. Dude. Go try them out.

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I-I will literally walk you through how I use Superhuman because I love it that much.

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Like, I'm- We'll drop the link in the, uh, yep, in the show notes and, uh, and later when we go to LinkedIn with all this awesome stuff, we'll drop the link for you guys. Yeah. I'm ecstatic that we got them on board.

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Hopefully that becomes a long-term partnership because big fan- It does... and they just continue to build more and more. They ship like crazy. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they do. Um, but question for you. What is,

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what is, like, your dream? What is it that you really want to do with your life, Dan Oberg? That is a really hard question for me to answer.

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Um, I just got off an advisory call with someone launching a newsletter right before this. So, like, right before this episode, hopped off an advisory call,

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and this guy is launching a newsletter about men's mental health, um, some, like, psychology deep dive. Something really cool, actually. I told him, like, I'd be his first subscriber. It sounds really interesting. Yeah.

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And I, I, I went down a rabbit hole with him on a tangent for like 10 minutes talking about how I'm just, like, so passionate about health, fitness.

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Um, like the last year of my life has really changed even what I'm passionate about, and I had to cut myself off. Like, "Sorry, I'm going on a tangent here." And he's like, "No, this is good."

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And I was like, "You, you, you can tell I'm passionate about this stuff." And I think when I get caught in those moments, I'm like, wow, I'm... Like, I'm passionate about things that I'm not necessarily

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married to in my day-to-day right now.

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So when I get to go for a long run in 70-degree weather, or, like, the adrenaline that comes from signing up for a race, or, you know, I get in this routine of, like, waking up early and, and, like, like, taking care of myself, I'm like, that's amazing.

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I think sometimes... So to answer your question, I think sometimes my life actually is at odds with my passion. Now, don't get me wrong, I love what we're building at Beehive. I'm passionate about winning.

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I love winning. I think that's what helps me out in sales is, is winning i- is important to me. But nowadays I'm passionate about, like, taking care of my family and myself and my wife and my kids and...

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So what's my dream? Ugh. [laughs] Getting choked up. Oh, oh. Yeah, no, I know. I- you, you s- you know, we asked about... Yeah, seriously, if I kept talking about this, I'd probably start crying.

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You asked how much money would you, would, would someone have to pay you to, to get rid of your LinkedIn. I think the question for me is how much money would someone have to pay me for me to stop doing it all?

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Like, let me just go do whatever I want with my family. We're going on a, a month-long trip to Europe this summer. Mm. We're gonna go to London, Madrid. Italy's gonna be amazing.

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I'll probably work a little bit, but, um, it's gonna be, like, vacation, pseudo vacation. And I'm like, how much money would I have to have in my, like, liquid cash account to just stop everything and just do that?

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And like- Yeah... I don't know. I don't know how much that would be. I'm still young, so you gotta, like, account for, like, just having money in 20 years as well- Mm-hmm... as, not just, like, right now. Um,

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what's my dream? Do whatever I want. I think my dream is let me do whatever I want. Yeah. Report to no one. Yeah. Do whatever I want, however I want, whenever I want. I think that's my dream.

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Maybe not a real realistic dream, but what's your dream, Troy? First and foremost, I love your answer, and I love the fact that you're gonna go to, you're gonna go to Europe for a month, which is insane. With two kids?

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The family. Everyone's going? The whole, the whole fam? The whole family.

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In fact, uh, we're going, just my unit, to London and Madrid, and then her, my, my wife's entire family is gonna be in Italy for like two and a half weeks, so it's gonna be fun. Wow. Wow. We just went to Italy,

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I guess, wow, two Octobers ago. But- Yeah... I would say you and I have similar dreams. Um, my dream, okay.

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Like, if I'm painting a picture of where I want to be right now, and not inside of this toddler's closet, it would be- [laughs] It would be on a beach, but there's this... I, I love, I love the beach. I love the beach.

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I love sitting back and having, like, a cocktail or a frozen drink. Like, I love Mexico.

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I think it's the best place that somebody can travel to actually unwind, have a good drink, get spoiled, and not have to spend too much money, and it's not too far away, right? And so I, I love Mexico. Yeah.

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I think it's the best place for the money. Um, but then I think about, like, this exact moment, I've got two kids. You can't just go leave and sit down and have a frozen drink and enjoy life for 12 hours a day, you know?

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So- Yeah... I think right now, I'm... Uh, this might sound stupid. I think right now it feels like I'm kind of living a dream because I have an opportunity to run my own company by myself- Yeah...

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and like you said, report to nobody. And I think that that's something that I've longed for since I've been a kid. Like, I've always wanted to build my own thing.

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But I think let's just hypothetically say the kids are out of the house. Like, my dream is to either have some sort of like lake home or beach home or something like that.

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Again, I- we talked about this on a previous episode. Not super materialistic. Give me everything cheap as possible 'cause I don't really care about things.

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Um, but I do love to be in an area that I'm, like, just relaxed and stress-free. Yes. Which is the beach or the lake or something like that. And so- Yes... it, it's to never report to anybody.

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It's to be financially well and stable- Mm-hmm... to where I don't have to think, "Can we go out to dinner tonight? Can I buy that?" Yeah. "Can we go on this trip?"

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I don't care about all that stuff, but I don't wanna think- Fair... about that stuff, right? Um- And, you know,

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you're, you're, you're reminding me that in, in many ways I am living my dream, and I have to remind myself that as well. Th- 10 years ago, Daniel only dreamt of Daniel's current life.

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And when, like, we're going to Europe for a, a month-But like, yeah, sure, I had to sit down for a second and look at, okay- Yeah... how much money is this gonna cost? I can- For sure. But, like, we're gonna...

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I- it's gonna probably gonna be $10,000, a- and we're gonna do it, and it's gonna be great. Yeah. And I'm excited. Yeah. 10 years ago, I would, I wouldn't have imagined I could just do that. Yeah.

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So I think family, you know, you know, just having, having the, the white picket fence reality in, in a, in a many ways. Like, we don't have a white picket fence.

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We have a very gross, probably needs to re- be replaced fence, but, like, that's a really cool reality, and you reminded me by saying beach and Mexico and some of the stuff. I played at Kiawah.

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I played a round of golf at Kiawah two years ago now out on MLK Day, and not the Ocean Course.

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If anyone here plays golf, that course is only for people who are good at golf, and so I played a, a course where the people that are crap at golf actually have fun still. It was $200, $300 round.

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It was a lot of fun, and I remember ending the round, putting in the 18th hole, and saying, "I want to buy a house here at some point in my life.

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I'm not gonna live here full time, but I want a house where I can come whenever I want and play this course however frequently- Mm... with my whole family, teach my kids how to golf." So that, that's a...

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That's like a segment of the dream, I think. Yeah. It's not like my whole life's dream, but- Yeah... that's a dream of mine. Yeah, yeah. Dude, I would love...

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I even looked at, like, the Dominican Republic and Mexico beach houses 'cause you can get a lot, you know, a lot more for your money. Mm-hmm. But it's also, like, it's 50% down, and then it's 50%- Yes...

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like, down, and then you gotta do another 50% when it closes.

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There's no way that you can just have a mortgage, or I did see on the Dominican Republic there's some agencies that then you pay a crap ton of interest on it to be able to have a mortgage. Mm-hmm. So yeah. It...

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That, that... Oh, man, that just... Like, right now that sounds like a dream just being somewhere, water- Yes... beach, golf course, whatever. Do you prefer the beach over the mountains? I know there's a...

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There's always the ongoing debate, beach or mountains. I'm taking beach 100 times a day. Yeah. But I don't dislike the mountains. Um- Yes... I went up to... You're, you're very familiar with Asheville.

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We went up to Asheville a lot. Yeah. Big fan of the mountains. Yeah. I'm not, like, the biggest lover boy of hiking.

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Like, I don't need to go hike for six hours, to be honest, but I'll go hike- I'm, I'm in the same boat... for an hour. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We,

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we went on our honeymoon almost seven years ago now to Costa Rica, and we got, uh... We rented a house, like, in the mountains, but it was, like, maybe only a mile from the ocean. Mm. So we're, like, secluded cliff.

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Like, y- you're just on a cliff, but the beach is, like, right there. Yeah. Oh. Like, that is- Ooh. It wasn't even a big mountain. Like, Costa Rica, I think Costa Rica has mountains. Honestly, I can't remember.

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I believe it does. So, you know... But, like, this was not, like, a mountain. It was just, like, a cliff randomly. Like, a- Mm-hmm... the, like, the we're at the top, but it was, like- Yeah... not big.

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But it was just big enough where you're like, "Whoa, I get the best of both worlds." But I'm a big beach guy as well. Yeah, yeah. I actually hate the feeling of sand in my toes. Like, after- Oh... you're out, out...

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Like, when you leave the beach. After, and that's stuck on your feet. After. Yeah. Same. Yes. Same. I don't care when I'm at the beach, whatever. But once you're, like, done being at the beach, like, what do I do now?

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Like- Right... I, I can't get, get this- Yeah... crap off my... Like, how do I... Like, what do, what do I do? You know, what do I do with my hands? I don't know what to do with my hands. Yeah.

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So anyways, I love the beach- I-... until I'm not at the beach, and then I hate the beach. [laughs] I agree. I hate the sand. What do you do? All, everything's sandy.

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Everything that you bring back home- Also, with kids-... fit- They- That's-... they're like, "Oh, there's this sand in my hands. I should do this" And, and then- And for those- Like, they'll- For those... Yeah.

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They're... It's, like, sand in their eyes and stuff. Uh, I'm like- Yeah... "Okay." You just, you gotta teach kids that sand doesn't go in your eyes or in your mouth- Yeah...

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or in your nose, and it just hurts if you do those things. So- Yeah. Li- Yeah. It's a good time.

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I know we gotta jump off soon, but Liam was eating a peanut butter and jelly, dropped it in the sand, and just picks it up and eats it. I'm like, "Dude, that is disgusting. I know you don't like that." [laughs] I know.

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Like, the kid rocks in his poop. Yeah. It just, it never works out. It's so funny. And, and- Love the beach, though.

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I'm in, I'm in Charleston area, and we, we don't go as much as we wish we did 'cause I'm, I'm a little bit inland. Yeah. Uh, but, you know, it's gonna be really nice this weekend.

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I think we're gonna make our way down to at least the beachfront- Yeah... and see what happens. Do it. Do it. And on the, on the beach topic, check out the island Curaçao whenever you can.

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It is gorgeous, and it's a sleeper. Okay. It's a sleeper. So I- Where, where is this? So there's, there's something called the ABC Islands: Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao. All three of them have the- Okay...

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same exact things to offer. Aruba, of course, is well-known. Of course. Bonaire, not a lot of people go. Curaçao's becoming a bit more touristy. It's not that touristy. Okay. Beautiful.

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43 beaches that surround this small island. You have to rent a car. Ooh. Oh, dude. L- like, water that you- Amazing... that you've never seen before.

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So anyways, if you're looking for, like, a beach destination to go to at some point down the road- When I-... don't sleep on Curaçao. It's, it's gorgeous. Curaçao. Gorgeous. Yeah. I love it. I love it.

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We need to get Curaçao to sponsor the podcast. [gasps] I don't know how their- Just like Aruba. I don't know how their economy is doing, but, um, anywho, Daniel, where can they find us? I gotta jump off to a call. Yes.

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[clears throat] You can find us at twodadsintech.com. You can subscribe on YouTube, follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts. Uh, please do subscribe, like, comment, leave your feedback.

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We love that. Share with your friends. If you're a dad, hit us up on LinkedIn. Email us. Uh, I'm, I'm daniel@twodadsintech.com. You can email me directly.

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If you're interested in sponsoring us, we do have slots open, um, in April, I believe. We're booked out through March, uh, but we're open to sponsorship opportunities, so let us know.

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We'd love to give you some shout-outs. Awesome. You heard the man. Daniel, it's always a great chat with you. I'll see you next week. You too. See you next week. Bye-bye.