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Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Two Dads and Tech. Subscribe. Rate five stars. What's up, Daniel? How are you, man? Did you hear that s- that- that duck sound?

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That was actually really good. What if, what if that's how I sound? What if that's just... [quacking] Can, can you do a Daffy Does? What, uh... Donald, Donald. Can you do a Donald Duck voice? I don't know.

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I can't really. That's so loud. If that's loud in your- Can you hear that?... in your headphones, I'm so sorry. Dude, I had a question for you. Dang it. How you doing? I suck at that. Yeah. I suck at that. Okay.

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Just keep going. Just keep going. No, so, no, this, so there was a study, and we talked about this a lot. We talked maybe 15 episodes ago, where, like, gentle parenting is a thing. You gotta be gentle. No, it's not.

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And we talked about if it's the right thing or- What is gentle parenting? Just kidding. Uh, it's [laughs] it's where you're a gentle parent. I don't know, dude.

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I'm, I'm- We all- I only, I only know what aggressive parenting is. [laughs] I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding. Can you, can you describe to me and elaborate what you mean by aggressive parenting? Loud, offensive...

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No, just kidding. Keep going. No, a- What are, what are your thoughts? No, okay. [laughs] Give, give, give me some juice. Uh, they're all... Yeah, these are all jokes, everybody.

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So yeah, there was a survey that recently came out, it was by Kiddie Academy, where 54% of Gen Z parents say that they actually don't want to do gentle parenting.

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They want to teach their kids and raise their kids to be ready for the real world, as in, like, whatever happens in life happens in life, and sometimes you don't get what you want.

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So my question for you is, one, did you ever do any sort, any sort of gentle parenting? And then if so, have you s- started to, like, stray away from that, or what is your parenting style? It's interesting.

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I, just seeing the stat. So this is kids, like, children of 25, 26-year-olds? Is that who we're talking about? Yeah. Yep. And you're saying how many, like, what, what's the fraction?

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The, the ratio is 60% of people in that age group- 54% of Gen Z parents... are gentle parenting? Yeah, 54. So a little bit, a little above half are- Are... are now saying, like, they're against gentle parenting.

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Ah, so- So they, they think that they should-... are not for it, but are going back to almost, like, like, like disciplinary- Yes... you know- Exactly...

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consequential parenting, I guess would be maybe the opposite of gentle parenting. Yeah. And, and I would- My thoughts on this are- I would say it doesn't even have to be, like, the opposite.

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I don't think they're going into, like, more, like- Yeah. No, I know. I, I- But you know what I mean. All right, sweet. Not the opposite- Listeners, you know... but, like- [laughs] The opposite of aggressive parenting...

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you know, I think the, the connotation, the connotation- Yeah, yeah... of gentle parenting is, like, almost coddling. Whether or not that's- Yeah... what gentle parenting is, but- I love that. That word...

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you know, leaning further away from that would be, like, maybe, you know- Just-... lay the hammer down... like, beat your kids? Yeah... like, you're gonna have consequences.

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If you defy me in public, I'm taking away your Xbox for a week. Like, that type of... You know, I would not necessarily put that under the umbrella of gentle parenting.

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I'm, I'm a naturally aggressive person, and so I think my propensity to be a intentionally gentle parent comes from my fear of overdoing it.

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Like, I'm, I'm aggressive and I'm assertive, just that's, like, I lean that way. I am that way. I'm loud. I'm, I'm, I'm, I speak confidently. I'm, I'm sure of what I want.

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But in parenting, for e- especially a toddler, I, you know, a three-year-old, that can be received in a almost a shocking, like, scary way if you, if you don't mitigate that as a parent. So I don't know.

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I, I don't really have... I think I'm kind of indifferent to gentle parenting. I think

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you can discipline your children gently in ways that I've seen and observed with my own eyes, parents doing, doing more than they need to, like, going overboard.

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Maybe, like, publicly humiliating their kids, I think that's wrong. But I think where I've seen gentle parenting become, like, okay, like, your kids are misbehaving

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constantly, and in the name of gentle parenting, you as a parent are actually doing a disservice to their development as people. That's where I think the lines get kind of clear to me. I'm like, "Hey,

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you should be gentle and respectful," but in my opinion, also very clear about the guardrails. Children need that.

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Developmentally, if you don't give very clear, defined guardrails to your kids, they get in trouble, they get in danger, they're a danger to themselves and others. They need consequences for, for crossing the guardrails.

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And so- Yeah... yeah, I think, I don't know. Gentle parenting is an interesting one.

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I think the, the shocking part of this stat is that people younger than us, who are kids to children younger than ours, are leaning away from that. I'm curious why that might be, but- Yeah... I don't know. Yeah.

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You said that you're, in general, a very aggressive person, and, and that could be taken so many different ways and out of context, so I don't want people to take that out of context.

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Um, has there ever been a time where you've been so heated and you don't want any sort of aggressiveness to come out, so you have to, like, step away or anything like that?

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Or how do you handle, like, that moment where you're kinda boiling? 'Cause there's moments, everyone that's a parent, you know, where you're, like, boiling.

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You're like, "This needs to stop this second or I'm gonna lose it." So has there ever been a moment where you're like, "Ugh, I gotta step away before I freak out"? Yeah. Um, a lot. I mean, all, all the time. I think

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you're either uniquely not normal and very level-headed or lying if you're a parent to toddlers and don't th- don't have these moments where you have to step away.

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And I know this because I've talked to many dads in a stage of life like mine, with kids one, two, five, 10 years old.

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Every single one of them have moments where they're like, "I, I'm stepping away 'cause I'm about to lose it." That's normal. I think the world and social media and cancel culture will have you think that's wrong.

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Like, "Oh, you shouldn't have kids if you're, if you can't control yourself." I'm like, "Dog-Me stepping away is controlling myself. What are you, what are you saying? So- Yeah...

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yes, kids get on your nerves, kids are disobedient. They will push every single button, whether intentionally or not, although at some point it will be intentional. They will push your buttons. Mm-hmm.

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And like sometimes it's okay to step away, and I think that's where a partnership of your spouse comes to play. And I, I know there's single parents out there, and hats off to you, literally.

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On YouTube, I am taking my hat off right now to anyone- [laughs]... who's a single parent, because I don't know how you do it. Dude, hat on out there. But praise God.

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I- it's a partnership, and there are times my wife knows, "Oh, he's stepping away," [laughs] like- [laughs]... "He's taking a breather," because it is, he is past his limit.

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And I mean, look, if you are low on sleep, hungry, and just worked for 10 hours, and then your buttons are pushed by two screaming babies, you tell me how you feel.

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If you're, if you're like all happy-go-lucky, like gentle parenting, like no, you, you need to step away sometimes and take a breather. Yeah. I think that's okay, because we're all human. Yeah. I agree.

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And do you ever... As a dad, I feel like I can do everything, and I think that's just me in general. I feel like I can do anything in the world. Um, and I can't, and I need to realize that.

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But has there ever been a moment where, 'cause I run into these moments a lot, where you should step away, but you're like, "No, I got this. I got this," when you're like boiling, you're like...

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Like you almost wanna take the responsibility away from your significant other to like help them out, but then you're getting very frustrated, and maybe you should've stepped away, but you didn't? I can't...

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Nothing comes to mind where I, where I should've stepped away and didn't.

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But one, one example comes to mind that I've, I've used this before in examples, you know, maybe in this podcast, definitely in just in real life talking to people.

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But I think there's, there's this time where my youngest, he didn't sleep through the night for 18 months. Um, he'd just started sleeping through the night, and that's not an exaggeration.

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Every single night his entire life, he did not sleep through the night. Mm. Um, just started to for a month, um, now, and it's great.

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So we're finally like, my wife went away for like a women's weekend with her friends and had a good time away, and I was a dad with both kids for the first time in, uh, in my second's life.

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I'd done it with my oldest 'cause he started sleeping three months, but my youngest, this is the first time.

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So I remember when maybe three or four months in, and I went in and I was trying to coddle him and, you know, comfort him. It was like, oh, 2:30, 3:00 in the morning,

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screaming bloody Mary right in my face for, you know, five minutes, and then 10 minutes, and then 15 minutes, and then 20 min- And, uh, if you've never had a newborn baby scream in your face for 30 minutes, I'm not talking like, aw, cute little cry.

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No. Mm-hmm. Screaming terror. Mm. In the middle of the night, so you're both woken up by the sound, and then cons- just, just, just terrorized by it for, for, forever. Um, there were, there were... I had dark thoughts.

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Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna be hon- I'm gonna leave it at that. I had dark thoughts. And it was in that moment of weakness my wife opened the door and took the baby out of my hands, and I left the room.

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And we said nothing. We weren't judging. We didn't need to explain ourselves. I literally was like, "Thank you, God, that this woman knew me and the baby in this moment."

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I don't think I would've done anything regrettable- Yeah... just so we're all on the same page. Yeah, for sure. But- But you can have thoughts, and that's normal...

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you know all the memes where they're like, "When you give into your intrusive thoughts," and it's like people like, like driving off a cliff 'cause they're like, "I wonder what that feels like."

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[laughs] Like s- crazy stuff. Yeah. Intrusive thoughts get really freaking dark when you are dealing with a baby who won't stop crying in the very middle of the night. Yep.

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After nine, 10, 12, 15 months of them crying every single night, you know? So... Yeah. Yeah. That's, um, I, uh, have PTSD a little bit from like a newborn cry. The first one, I know we talked about this a little bit.

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Oh my goodness, man, that baby screaming dri- even when I hear another newborn screaming now, it's like, "Dude, don't even remind me." And that, I didn't want a second kid, 'cause I was like, "Dude, this, this is a lot."

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Yes. "I, I can't do this." Yes. "Mentally, I can't do this anymore." But I had a second kid, and he's awesome. He's great. But, um- Yes... yeah, dude, it's, it's tough. It's okay to have those thoughts, but- Mm-hmm...

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I know exactly what you mean. There's, there's that, and then there's also like that same scream, but in the car when you can't do anything. For some reason, the car- Oh, dude... drove me nuts.

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Like there's nothing you can do. You can't rock, you can't feed. You're both just in the front seats. Yeah. You're like, "Oh my goodness." No, it's so bad. It's so bad. There's the cliff meme coming into my head.

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[laughs] Yep. Yep. Whoo. Uh, yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's... Yeah. I could say- Yeah... a lot on this. I could say a lot on this. Yeah. When- D- Go ahead. No, you. You look like you're about to say something awesome.

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Yeah, I was, I was thinking about the anxiety that being a parent creates. Mm-hmm. Uh- In general, yeah... I can't... I mean, we may have just talked about this in our previous episode or a recent episode, but I think

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the divide between... No, I was talking about this in real life with someone, I now remember. The divide between someone who is a parent and someone who's not- Mm, don't get me started...

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just in terms of the way you view the world- Totally started... is, it could not be any different. And I think, I was explaining, I think people who are single, dating, married, are actually all in one category. Yeah.

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Whereas parents are like- In a different [laughs] You may, you may as well be 10 years difference, whether maturity level or not. There's totally immature parents, and there's super mature people who aren't parents.

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But like the way you view reality, you can't teach someone who doesn't have kids how to view reality the way someone who does have kids views it.Yeah And I don't think you even can get it until you have kids.

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Like, you can't. You can't prepare- Yeah... for it, and then you can't really understand what parents are talking about until you are a parent. Dude, we, I think it was, like, episode two or three we talked about this.

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Yeah. One- Yeah... if you don't have kids, you will never understand.

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You just won't understand, and you'll try to act like you understand, or you'll try to maybe say that you have a dog that also pees on the floor or something, and- Right... be like, "Oh, my goodness.

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My little Beck- my little Becky did the same thing." [laughs] It is- Dog parent. Becky's not the same. [laughs] Dude, I, don't even- We did talk about this. We did. Don't get me started. Every time I think about it.

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But- Me and Brian Lamana... you know, you know, there's something interesting going on right now. Um, well, one, Sora 2, we talked about it last week. It's blowing up my TikTok feed.

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I haven't logged into Sora since we talked about it, but Sora 2 and all the, the [laughs] memes are so- Yeah... funny. Yeah. So funny. Okay, there's that. So I'll give you that. Love Is Blind.

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Let's talk about Love Is Blind real quick. The show- Do you-... or, like, the concept? The, the show, not the concept. Okay. The show and the concept, actually. So the concept of the show Love Is Blind, do you watch it?

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So the first show that came to mind when you said that is Love on the Spectrum, which is a totally different show. That's what I thought you were thinking of, totally different. Um, no.

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I, I, I don't watch either, to, to be fair. Okay. But I, I have seen bits and pieces of both, like in memes and TikToks and stuff, but yeah. Okay. No, tell me more about it.

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I, I mean, I know the concept, but that's about it. Yeah. So I, I don't watch TV besides this, and it's, it's kinda like my guilty pleasure.

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And I, I, like, I watch it with cringe, but it's too bad and, and, like, entertaining to stop watching. So I don't, I, I, like, I don't have any shows that I watch at all. I hate watching TV. I can't focus on it.

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But I'm asking y- about Love Is Blind not necessarily because the actual show Love Is Blind, but the idea behind Love Is Blind is... Like, I love the idea.

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The concept is you're in different rooms, and you fall in love with each other's personalities, and then you get married on reality TV, and then you meet in real life, and then will it work out?

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You live together for a few weeks or whatever. Will it work out? The concept is great, right? Like, let's not judge a book by its cover, and let's see if we actually love each other for who you are as a person.

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So we talk through walls. We learn about each other. We have deep conversations. My question to you is how important is physical attraction in a relationship and in a marriage? It's extremely important.

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I, I will die on this hill, and people are wrong who are saying it's not. You can blanket statement that there are exceptions, and there are. But, like, as far back as

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procreation, where humans just did because they needed to multiply, y- it's survi- it's not survival of the fittest. There's another term for it, but, like- Yeah... it's, it's literal human evolution.

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The propensity to choose a mate is the physical attraction. You see it in peacocks. You see it in mammals. Physical attraction is absolutely part of it. Now, can you love someone and live with someone

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romantically who you're not physically attracted to? Yes. But the, and the science will back this. Physical attraction follows emotional attraction. If you find yourself romantically driven to someone- Yeah, yeah...

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m- the magnetic... I don't know what I'm trying to say. It's stupid. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. But- No, no, yeah, I s- I know. You're an idiot, but it's fine... you're try- you're, you're, you're, you're, yeah.

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So- Get it out... you will eventually develop a physical attraction. [laughs] You cannot... [laughs] But I don't know. Yeah. Like- You, so you think so? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. That's a stupid question.

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That is, we, we're what, 45 episodes in? You've never asked me a stupid question until right now. [laughs] Just kidding. So I think if- It's not a stupid question...

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I guess what you're saying is, like, if you fall in love and you are... Like, like, I see what you're trying to say, but I don't want, know what you're trying to say.

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Like, the mag- the magnetic part where, like, if you're so drawn into somebody's emotional and- People are gonna say, like-... and personal-...

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there's pansexual and asexual and all these, like, "I'm not physically attracted to anything or anyone." I'm like, "Okay, well, you have to know you're not, like, the, the norm."

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Like [laughs] more people are not that way than you are. Yeah. So it's like, I'm not arguing if you are or aren't that, but, like- Yeah... more people aren't that than are.

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So I think the majority rule is that you are physically attracted to someone, which draws you into them emotionally. Okay, okay. I get it.

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And if you're emotionally attracted to someone, like, you might be like, "Wow, that person's so smart. I love the way they think. I love the way they speak," but you've never seen them before.

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You meet them in real life, and you're already drawn to them emotionally. I think that physical attraction will follow. So the, the,

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there's a lot of drama around this, this season about that, where these people fall in love with each other, and then they meet physically, and they're like, "Well, that's not my type.

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That's not my kind of person that I would, that I essentially find attractive." I'll just say that straight up. They don't find the other one attractive, but they found their- No...

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personality, and they found their emotional IQ, their intelligence, their lifestyle, et cetera, attractive in the rooms. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

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Um, and I feel like what you're saying is if you're drawn to that, you'll build physical attraction. Is that what I'm hearing? I think both are intertwined.

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I think in a romantic relationship, both are intertwined, and I, I s- I... Romantic is important there because you can acknowledge physical attract- physical attraction.

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Like, I, like, I could look at a bodybuilder and be like, "That dude's ripped, and he looks good." I'm not attracted to him 'cause I'm not. But, like, I acknowledge, like, that dude is objectively good-looking. Yeah.

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There's no emotional feeling. But, like, romantically, if you are emotionally or physically attracted to r- the, the, the latter will follow- Yeah, yeah... the former. Yeah. I think they're, they're- No, no...

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inseparable. Yeah, I wanted to get your thoughts on that 'cause there's a lot of drama this season, people just not liking the other 'cause how they look, or it's not their style- Yeah... not their preference.

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And, and I think it's- I'm not surprised... and I th- yeah, I'm not surprised either, but I think the physical attraction is so, so important. I feel like when you... And I watch a handful of TikToks every day.

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Um-There's some where it's like you're interviewing random couples on the street and asking like, "What makes them happy?" and "How long have you been together?"

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and "What's one piece of advice you'd give to younger couples?" All that stuff.

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And almost all of them have the same common theme that like you need to be attracted to them physically or else your love will just eventually fizzle out.

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But I guess what you're saying, to your point, is also like if you find them attractive and things like that from an emotional perspective, personality perspective, it definitely can lean into the physical attractiveness of that person.

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Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have you ever seen the show Paradise- No... on Hulu? Hulu original. No. First of all, watch it. Okay. Uh, I just finished the first season. There's only one season so far. I just- So good...

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I don't watch shows. I know. You're right. [laughs] So if you're listening to this- But-... and you aren't like Troy, go watch the show Paradise. I'll tell you the j- ugh, I don't really want to. I mean, it's- I know.

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Are you gonna, are you gonna-... it's such a crazy spoiler... ruin it? Ah, then don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. But, but yeah. Yeah, it's a great show. Is it? Okay. With,

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with the show Paradise, I'm just gonna go into it. You guys should go watch it. The premise is like a political crime drama, but it's in a utopia world, futuristic. That is a spoiler, just so we're all on the same page.

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Spoiler alert, I already gave the spoiler, but like it is mind-boggling. But this thought experiment I've been, I've been chewing on, I've been wrestling with is if you were to create

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a world, like let's say that the, the world explodes, everyone dies, but you have the opportunity to create a, a safe haven for, I don't know, a few thousand people, 25,000 people, 50,000 people.

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Some, some number of people. You can pick whoever you want. They can have whatever characteristic you want them to have. They can be the, whatever profession, skill set. The world can look and feel however you want.

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Like, what's your line of thinking? How do you choose who's gonna be in that utopia? What types of skill sets? What types of technologies? What's the temperament of the place?

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Are you gonna build a super cold place, super hot place? Is it gonna be on the beach, gonna be in the mountains? You know, walk me through it.

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I'm just interested in having this conversation, 'cause this, this, this show just like ripped my mind apart and I'm, I'm like, I'm now like, what would I do? How would I, how would I build a utopia?

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So when you say utopia, I don't even know what the heck that means. Does utopia mean like a place of like a dream- So let me, let me rephrase what a utopia, it's like-... a dream place?

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My dream- Yeah, like everyone, like-... world... let's just say the world ends. The world ends and you are the one that gets to save what doesn't end in the world. What do you pick? Which animals? So what doesn't end?

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Uh, which animals? Does politics survive? Is there still a leader? Is this, is this the show where like they drive into a tunnel and then there's a whole new world in that tunnel? Yeah, more or less.

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And then like they've... Is there like a guy that gets like... Ah, that's gonna spoil it. I- is there essentially like do, do they fi- do they find out that this isn't real and there's still life outside of where you're,

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where they're at? Yeah. Yeah. I think maybe I have seen this show. It's not. Maybe. It, it's, it's similar, similar concept as the Apple, Apple TV- I think that's the one I watched, the Apple TV original.

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[clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. Um- Silo... so- You might be thinking of Silo. Yeah, so what stays and what goes? I'll tell you what goes, mosquitoes and ticks. Those go, for sure. I'm not bringing those- Okay...

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in my utopia. Okay. Okay. No chance. Um, let's see. What goes? Daniel. Um, what else goes? Yeah. Um- Of course. Of course. Of course. No, but like with- Are you, uh...

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Is it gonna be, like what, what's the, what's the setting? Is it gonna be in the mountains? Is it gonna be in the ocean, near the ocean? Beachy? You know, I think, I think that it would, there would be...

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Yeah, I think there would be a, a lot of mountains around, but like at the bottom of the mountains, there'd be some warm water for you to be able to swim in. Mm-hmm. Like a lake. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

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For sure beautiful. And of course the sun- You have to choose between camels and horses, which one are you taking? Oh, horses. Keep going. I like when... Yeah, keep going.

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All right, you have to choo- I don't, I don't- You have to choose between bonfires as a concept and fireplaces. Bonfires. Okay. Why? I love bonfires. [laughs] That's it.

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Either you can run- But like real, but like logically, it's probably not the best, but I love bonfires. Either you can run everywhere. You can run everywhere if you're on foot. Can't walk. You have to run.

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And then you get cars if you're not walking, or you don't have cars at all, but you're allowed to walk. So it's, [laughs] it's either you're driving or running. Yep.

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And the oth- [laughs] the other is you're running or walking. Exactly. And no cars. You either get to have a car, but if you're not in the car, you're running.

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Can I, can I choose the speed I'm running at or is it a full sprint? No, you have to y- sprint. You have to put it all on the line every time- I go-... you go anywhere.

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Up the stairs for bedtime, you're going to the s- kitchen- [laughs]... to get a snack. Sprinting. You seen that TikTok guy that just sprints everything? Yeah. Like... Yeah, he's awesome. Daniel something something?

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Yeah, that's the one. Daniel something. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so sprinting, cars, walking. So I walk everywhere and there's no cars.

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Or you could like, you could jog, you could walk, you could go at any pace, but you can't drive. I'd go, I'd go running, cars, and it depends on how big this place is. Is it just like a little neighborhood?

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You get to decide. If it's just- It could be, it could be [laughs] it could be like three acres. [laughs] With like- Running and cars... with like 5,000 people. [laughs] Just like head to head, shoulder to shoulder. Oh.

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Oh, that's funny. All right, last one on that. Um, are you going to, uh, have houses or are you gonna have teepees? Houses and bonfires in the houses. [laughs] Or yeah, I mean- Yeah. Houses. Teepees?

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You're not gonna have, you're not gonna have fireplaces in the teepees? [laughs] Oh. Oh. Dude, um, what makes you irrationally mad? Like what just really gets to you that shouldn't? This podcast. This podcast.

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When you bring up, when you bring up- If-... the US health epidemic? [laughs]Oh, what makes me irrationally mad? Yeah. What makes you irrationally mad?

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Where you're like, "Dude, I should've gotten mad at that," but you do almost every time. Yeah, no, it's, uh [laughs] La boo boos. People- [laughs]... people that are unintentionally

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gaslighting you by their own illogical thinking. Mm. And that is really specific, but it's happened so many times to me that I'm like- Maybe-... am I the problem? Maybe I'm the problem. [laughs] Yeah.

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Uh- But I think what makes me irrationally mad is when someone can't see the own, their own error- Stupidity... in their own line of thinking. Interesting. Okay. No, I think something...

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And, like, irrationally mad, I'm like, I'm not, like, throwing tables or anything, but I think something that I learned to do well in school is judge myself and play my own devil's advocate.

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We used to do something called, um... It was an o- it was an argument thought experiment where you wrote a paper. I can't remember the exact term here. Someone would probably know.

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But you write a paper with a strong, solid, logical, deductive argument, and it's gotta be, you know, the, the premises follow the structure, it's sound, it's got, it's got... It's tight.

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But then you have to argue with yourself in the same paper, which, you know, step one, step two is good. Yeah. But then you have to argue with yourself again. Mm.

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So one, two, three steps, and it's research, annotation, I mean, 10, 20, 30-page argument. That taught me to always double-guess my own logic and my own decision process

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to, to, to b- be sure. Like, am I thinking about this the right way? Now, I have cracks that have formed and I'm totally not right all the time, but what, what I find annoying, to be honest,

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is when people don't do that with their own way of thinking. Like, they're just... Like, this is correct. Yeah. And you, you know they've never once challenged their own way of thinking. Yep.

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Or they've never once been challenged, or worse, they have been challenged and they've ignored it or been so egoistic that they've- Yep... just dismissed it. Yeah. That, I think, it, there's...

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It's an unfortunate reality that most people actually fall into that category. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

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I think most people are just like, "I am"- Stuck in their ways and that's just- I- yeah, I think the way I think, I am the way I am, no one will tell me otherwise, no one can convince me there's a better way.

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I mean, man, that's dangerous. That's dangerous. So doesn't it make me irrationally angry? I don't know. That's not really the right... I wouldn't necessarily frame it that way, but, like- But yeah... that, that bugs me.

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Yeah. That bugs me. What's your, what's the biggest regret in your- What about you? What's the biggest regret in your career? Didn't you say beehive? No, I'm kidding. [laughs] No. Kidding. Uh, no.

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For the record, I did not say that. Um- Yeah, he did not. We, you, you can cut that. [laughs] Um- Yeah, what's, what's the biggest regret in your career? I would, I would think it's probably waiting to go into sales.

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My... So, like, funny enough, my mom, growing up, was always like, "You should go into sales. You would, you would crush it. You're just, you're built that way. You think that way. I think you would do really well."

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I hated the idea of being in sales. Like, I hated it. Yeah, me too. I actually still do sometimes. I still do. I'm like, even I am in sales, sometimes I'm like, "Ah, I hate the way people view me. I hate..."

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They always think I'm trying to, like, slide in and, and convince them of something, and sometimes I am, to be honest. But I just, I always didn't like that.

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But the amount of money I make now in sales makes the first five years of my career look silly. And I'm like- Yeah... I probably could've done this earlier and been more successful.

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That said, I wouldn't call that a regret because I think the, the way that I conduct myself in business is the way it is because I'm, I'm honestly more well-rounded than most people who are career salespeople.

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I've built businesses. I've sold products really well, online products, digital products, real IRL products.

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I've marketed at, like, pretty high-level companies and, and really built my way up in marketing and social and in content creation.

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So, like, if I had just done sales, like, maybe I would've found myself doing some of this stuff at some point, but it wouldn't have been as multifaceted as where I think my career has led, and, like, even as deep into startups as I've gotten.

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You know, sales has its... If s- Startups need sales, but I was at early, early startups where, like, sales wasn't even on the m- radar yet because they're not... What are they selling?

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Like, they're, they're building something that doesn't exist yet. You're not selling anything. But I was involved there because I wasn't just a seller. I think that... So I don't know.

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I, I think I probably, if I were to deduce it all, like, I probably would've gone into sales a little bit earlier. Yeah. What about parenting? What about it? It, what's the question?

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What's the biggest regret with parenting? Uh, i- it's always gonna be the most depressing answer, but it's just not spending enough time with my kids.

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I mean, already you talk about what people have as regrets as they're dying- Is it the time that you spend with them or is it the time that you're present with them? Two different things. I think both.

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Like, the literal amount of time- Yeah... with them, but also the mental presence when I have that time. Yeah. I agree.

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Like, like, my oldest wants to go for a round of golf, and I haven't taken him for a round of golf in months, and I just... Uh, like, I haven't, I haven't golfed.

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I've golfed twice in, like, the last, I don't know, seven months. Both of them have been short trips with, with the guys. One was on my birthday at Kiawah. I can't take a kid to them, you know, to, to that course.

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So it's like-I, I wanna take him to golf, I wanna take him fishing, and I did really briefly, but, like, there's stuff I wanna do that I, like, genuinely want to do. Like, when? And that's a...

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It's just so hard to find the time, and so I want more time. I already regret how little time I've spent with my son, who's gonna be four in two months, three months. Yeah. I'm like, "Ugh." Just feel like I'm- Yeah...

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missing so much of his life, and I hate it. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Um- Yep. But it's like, what's the solution, you know? I think that's a common answer. I know. I know.

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And I don't think there's, if you're a W-2 worker or if, I mean, honestly, just a- in the US that needs health insurance, and you need to make money to live, I think that's the life we live, where you just don't- Yeah.

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There-... spend time with your kids... the solution is, like, either living in poverty and then having other problems that are probably much worse.

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There are people that would kill, I have to remind myself of this all the time, people would kill- To have your job, yeah... to have a job that pays well at home. Yeah.

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And to go eat breakfast with your kids in the morning in your own kitchen,

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to leave your office at lunchtime and eat lunch with them, and to leave work at the end of the day to eat dinner with them, I get to do that every single day. I mean, lunch- Yeah... sometimes not, but

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people would kill for that. Like, people right now, people I know would be like, "You're complaining about spending- Yeah... three hours a day with your kids?

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Like, I don't see my kids Monday through Friday 'cause I leave before they wake up, and I get home after they're in bed." That's a real problem. Yeah.

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I'm aware of that, and so I feel kinda like a, like a, I don't know- Dude, you can feel how you-... like a brat... you can feel how you wanna feel, man. It's your feelings. Yeah, I know. I know. It's not theirs. I know.

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I know. I feel like a brat. Um- But- Nah... yeah, that's, that's the answer. What about you? Yeah. What do you regret? I'm gonna back it up. About career, not about parenting. I'm gonna... Yeah.

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Yeah, but first I'm gonna say what irrationally makes me mad, 'cause you did ask, and I ignored it. Um- Yeah, sure. Sure. [laughs] People that just have no social awareness really grind my gears.

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So if you're in Costco- Oh... and somebody's just like standing- Actually, that does make me-... in the middle of an aisle... irrationally, yes.

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Like, get out of the middle of the aisle because I can't push my cart around you. Makes me so angry.

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Or when you're just walking, and someone's, like, literally walking at snail pace in front of you, and you have, like, two kids and a stroller and, like, you're carrying lawn chairs. You're, you're just... Come on.

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Uh, so that, that goes- Yes... that drives me nuts. Yes. Same. Yours was definitely more of, like, a, a thoughtful answer. Um, [laughs] so- No, no, that, that, that makes me irrationally mad. Uh- Yeah...

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just so we're all on the same page. [laughs] Okay. It does. Um, let's see. Biggest regret of my career, I think I've talked about this once, and maybe, maybe there's two here.

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The biggest regret in, like, my W-2/sales career is leaving MongoDB. I have talked about that once with a Brian Lamana episode. Yes, you have. Great episode. Go check it out. I think that I

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would've been in a really, really good position. I was there when, like, RSUs and the stock price was, like, 80 or 90 bucks. It went up to, like, 300 to 400.

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Like, it, it would've been a, a great place to stay, and I left to go chase anOTE that was just a little bit higher on my salary, and I was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna keep pumping the salary."

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So I think there's that, but then there's also, like, when I backtrack even further, when I'm single in my 20s, all the ideas that I wish I would've started, I wish I would've started then instead of now when I have two kids, and- Mm...

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I don't have the flexibility or anything like that to, like, just spend my time on growing a business with no other responsibilities. Yeah. So I think there's, there's, there's those two. What was the last one?

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Oh, parenting. Um, the, the easy answer is obviously exactly what you said. Like, I've been actually really good lately of not letting technology distract me, but it's, it's very new. It's very recent.

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I think it's recent because Liam is definitely getting to a spot where he understands that dude's on his phone. Like, he's just not answering me.

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He doesn't understand, like, it's ignoring or that he's not paying attention or anything like that, but, like, you can tell he's, like, just wants to hang out. Mm-hmm.

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But l- like, if, if I don't wanna use that as an answer because it is an easy answer, and it's a very common answer. I don't know if you saw my post yesterday. It went kind of viral, which is cool. Viral, viral.

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Um- Viral. I got 18,000 likes on a tweet last week. That's great. I know. I know. That's so good. Speaking of viral. Um, all right, anyways, keep going. Yeah, no. I'm trying to think if there's anything else.

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I would just say, like, my dogs, you might hear them. They're... It's time for them to eat. Um,

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I would say just, like, just the times where I, I'm, kind of like what you said, lack of sleep, or you're just, you've worked all day, or you're hungry, or you just, you just have had it, right?

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Like, you've had enough that day. And when, like, I, I wouldn't say flip. I never flip where I'm like, "Stop talking to me," or anything like that. Like, that's just, that's not my thing. That's not my cup of tea.

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But there's times where I'll, like, be on my phone, or I'll just, like, not wanna talk, and all I hear is kind of like, "Daddy, Daddy, Dad, Dad, Daddy, Dad, Dad, hey, Dad, hey, Dad." I'm like, "What?" And then I look up.

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I'm like, "I'm sorry, man. Like, what, what do you want?" Like, I'm- Yeah... so I think, like, those are... I wouldn't, that's, like, not one regret, 'cause it's happened many times where I just get, like, "What?

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What do you want? Like, what?" And I'm like, "Dang, I shouldn't talk to you like... You're three years old. Why am I talking to you like that?"

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Um, and I'll just quickly backtrack and be like, I'll literally be like, "I'm sorry, bud. Come here, give me a hug," and then we'll, you know, chef it up. But yeah, yeah, so. Dude, you can see, like, this [laughs]

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you can, you can see a... Where's that coming from? Oh, the check mark on my head. Oh, now I see it. Yeah, that's funny. I don't know. It's- Might have something on your window. It is. It's the semantic. Oh, there it is.

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See? Semantic. So I read a stat- Yeah... that Michigan Medicine did that 66% of parents believe children's physical health is declining,

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and 80%, so almost everyone, it's like four-fifths, that's a crazy amount, 80% of people believe mental health is worsening in their kids. Do you think fear

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is driving parenting in 2025 and, uh, really among millennials, so kids likely newborn to 10 years old now, and 15 years old even? Is fear driving it more than-Ration- Yeah... rationale? Yeah.

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I think fear and comparison are driving that. Like, comparing your child to another child that's walking when he should be walking 'cause you're 12 months old, like that kind of stuff. And fear of...

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Like, and I say that because my wife, she's amazing, she's awesome, love her to death, but she has, like, kind of that, that fear personal- personality, where it's like, "Oh," like, "Oh, crap, I just read a story on my phone of this kid," and it's, like, a very one-off scenario where you, like, you rarely ever hear about, probably one in millions chance of this happening.

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It's like, so now he can't do that, or now he can't have that or whatever, or, like, the airflow in the bedroom, and he needs to be, like...

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I think that a lot of people are parenting with fear, and I think w- we always, we always go back to this. I think it's media, social media.

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I think it's our tech that is causing that because everything is just blasted in our face of all the bad things. So I do, I think it's fear and comparison. There's... Comparison might be worse.

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Like, the amount of times where it's like this kid's talking, and this kid's clapping, and he's only six months, and Harrison's nine months.

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Like, Harrison's about to walk, and I'm like, "Dude, you should not be operating this way." Yeah. I don't care if he's clapping. This dude's about to walk out of the room. So yeah, it's, it...

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Oh, comparison drives me nuts, man. Anywho, irrationally- Comparison is the-... comparison... thief of joy. It sure is. But yeah- Comparison is the-... I do... thief of joy. Do you, do you think fear is,

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is causing a lot of issues? And do you think it's, like, driving the parenting factors in families? I think fear of messing up creates a whole y- like, new type of parenting because I think we're so

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tuned in to our mental health as millennials comparatively, speaking of comparison, ironic, but comparatively, we are m- more aware of our mental health than our parents were.

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Like, mental health was still a stigma in the '60s, '70s, '80s. You didn't see therapists. You didn't... Like, you did. I mean, they existed, but, like, it was a stigma. Like, it was not as widely accepted.

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So I think millennials are just all around, like, better at understanding, like, what's wrong really with our mental health.

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We're not necessarily mentally healthier [laughs] to be honest, but we understand that we're not, and it's, like, accepted to go figure that out.

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I think our fear of causing mental damage and trauma and PTSD and, like, worst case scenario, like, types of mental disorders- Mm. Yeah... actually causes us to, us, the generation, to be, like, helicopter parents.

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I think that, you know, I'm not going to put you in a dangerous situation, w- even if the dangerous situation is, like, public school. Like- Yeah. Yeah, yeah... normal- Yeah... but could be dangerous.

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Like, I'm not gonna put you anywhere near anything that could potentially harm you 'cause I'm scared of the world. There's a whole lot to unpack there because the world is scary.

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The world is scary, and I, I think there's valid reasons to protect your kids from some of the scary that is in the world. But, like, you can't really prevent the world from... Your kid's gonna be in the world.

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Either your kid's gonna be literally sheltered, unhealthy, sheltered, like, forever- Yeah... or at some point they gotta, like, go out and, like, experience the world a little bit. Yeah. And- Yeah. Yeah...

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I think a lot of fear, a lot of fear of what could happen drives decisions. Yeah.

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I feel like a lot of times those kids that grow up with maybe, let's call it a helicopter parent just for the sake of this conversation, end up getting in a little bit more trouble when they leave the house and go into college or something like that 'cause they're like, "All right, I'm on my own, and I don't know what's out there in the world, so I'm gonna go explore."

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That's a, a fun conversation we can have. But before we wrap up, we have a lot of parents watching this. I've had a lot of people reach out to me, say things like, "I'm about to have a kid.

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Love your podcast" or, "I have a kid, and your podcast resonates" or [laughs] the other day I was like, "I have 303." I was like, "Oh my goodness." So a lot of people are out there struggling.

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A lot of dads, I'm gonna say this specifically, I know moms are too, like, this isn't just specific to dads, but dads are the ones that hit me up the most, are struggling.

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I wouldn't say you know everything, and I wouldn't say that you are the best person ever for this advice, but I think that you're a great person to ask for this advice, but if you...

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if they are struggling, what is one piece of advice you'd give to a struggling mom, dad, or even couple trying to raise a kid? Tell someone. I mean, step one and maybe the whole thing, tell someone. I think... So I, I,

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I've done, like, professional ministry in my life where basically I'm a glorified listener. [laughs] Uh, literally just listening to people's problems and- Yeah... helping them to just navigate them.

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Of course, there's like, Bible is the foundation of that in many cases, but, like, I, you know, haven't been a ministry worker in over 10 years, but I still do that. I, I do that every day.

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Courtney and I both, we lead a group of people in our community region. We write to 10,000 parents every week across all of Charleston and Summerville.

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We are community-driven to listen and to hear what people need and to try to meet those needs. That's what our, the lifeblood of our lives. We see how far that takes someone just to get something off their chest.

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Like, those dark thoughts I was having when m- like, my youngest was just screaming his face off at me for 30, 45 minutes, like, would not stop terrorizing the, you know, my brain at j- middle of the night.

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I had to tell someone about that, and so who'd I tell?

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The group of guys I meet with every week who all have newborn babies and know instantly exactly what I'm talking about and do not need me to explain it any further, but I had to tell someonePeople aren't telling other people.

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People are keeping it to themselves. That's dangerous. That is what causes mental breakdowns, that's what causes panic attacks.

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That's why people's mental health declines sometimes, 'cause they're just holding onto stuff that they need to get off their chest. They need to put that backpack of bricks down and just lighten their load.

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So my, my entire advice, just tell someone. I, I mean, it matters who, but it doesn't really matter who. Find someone that's a confidant that you can tell these things to, and then ask them to be your friend. Yeah.

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I mean, that is the, that is the... That's gonna go so far. Yeah. And I'm gonna echo that because

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my wife and I were the first f- of the friend group to have kids, and so I felt like I had no one to tell because, like we just mentioned in this podcast episode, if you don't have kids, you have no idea what it's like to have kids.

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And so I was like, "I have no one to tell." I could tell my mom, but, like, what's she gonna do? Whatever, like, she might just give me, "Ah, it'll be okay" advice. So

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if you don't have anyone or you feel like you don't have anyone, that's not true.

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So what I did, because I took it so bad on my, like, mental health of just, like, the transition from zero to one, was I just Googled dad support groups.

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I ended up going on a weekly Zoom for three to four weeks just to hear other dads talk about their problems and talk about mine. That's awesome.

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And it, it got to the point where I was like, damn, like, I'm, I'm not alone in this. Like, everyone... Not everyone else- Yeah... but a lot of other people are in the same scenario, if not worse.

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Maybe that made me even feel better. But yeah, after about three to four weeks, I was like, cool. Like, I'm good. I realize that I'm not alone. So if you don't think you have anybody, I promise you do.

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Google dad supports group. I don't, I don't know what groups are around you, but I promise there's somebody to talk to. 'Cause I feel like a lot of people... And don't be scared.

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Like, men think that they're too, like, macho to go and share their problems. Like, dude, it's better than [laughs] it's better than having mental, mental health problems around it, so. Dude. Um, yeah.

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I just got a crazy idea. Go on. Should we start a community, Two Dads and Tech? You know, it's funny. Actually, I should reach out to him. Do you know Will Falkenberg on LinkedIn?

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Uh, I think I've seen the name, but no, I don't know him personally. He used to pop off, and then he got a new job, and he stopped posting. But, uh, he has a Tech... It's literally called Tech Dads, and it's a good one.

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It's a good community of- A community? It's just a Slack, Slack community where people just- Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm in a couple that are, like, ish. I'm talking about, like, make our own. Like Dad Good?

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That's, that's been popping a little bit around LinkedIn. That's true. I don't know if you've seen that one, but- We could partner with Dad Good. The issue about it is I tried to start a community once, and I grew it.

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It was a sales one. It was, like, thousands of people. Yeah. And I hated running it. I did not know how- Oh, no, same... much work went into a community.

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I started the Beehive community, and it's got like 10,000 people now. I started my own newsletter community. It's got like 5,000. I've started- It's so much work... I've started so many communities.

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I, I was the head of community for a startup, uh, Flipside Crypto or something. It was like 14,000 people. I started Links DAO. I was a founding team member there. There's like 40,000 people there now.

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I've started so many communities, and the one thing I, I, I feel about all of them is how much I hate them. [laughs] Yeah. It's like- So if you start a community- So I don't know. Terrible idea...

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and outsource the community... No, if you outsource the community- Yeah, yeah, yeah... management, it opens up a lot of doors for- So I love being part of communities... ad sponsors. That's what it, that's what it is.

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Yeah. I love being part of it. Yeah. I hate running them. I hate... There's so many problems. People don't realize how much work goes- All right. Let's chew on it... behind it. Let's chew on it. Yeah.

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Anyways- No, so much. Wrap us up. Wrap us up. That was a good episode. Wrap us up. I hope that this resonated with some parent out there. Yeah. My dogs are going crazy, so you wrap us up. I know. I hear them.

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Uh, twodadsintech.com. Go find us, subscribe on YouTube, like us on podcasts, rate us five stars on Spotify.

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If you're interested in sponsoring us, we have some open slots in November and December of this year, uh, which is 2025 for those listening. And, uh, yeah, let us know if you wanna sponsor the podcast.

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We are posting 10, 12 times a day across social, so there's a lot of opportunities to partner together, and then we have the weekly episode and a newsletter as well. So looking forward to hearing from you.

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Uh, Daniel@twodadsintech.com if you are interested. Otherwise, see you next Wednesday.