Dude- Hey, what-... is up with your headset? [laughs] I didn't know you were gonna start, dude. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Dude, yeah, I, uh, headphones were dead. Look at this.
Flight, flight attendants, pr- please prepare the cabin for landing. Houston, we have a problem. Yeah, these are my wife's.
[laughs] If you're not watching, if you're listening on Spotify, please go, just look at how telemarkety, te- telemarketry- Telemarketry... telemarketry Troy, Troy looks right now.
He looks like he's trying to sell me life insurance. Dude, it's got a- A cold call at 11:00 PM right now from a life insurance agent... uh, you would be so mad.
But I also look like I'm, uh, possibly taking an order from Wendy's or- Yes... McDonald's or something like that. [laughs] In fact, I was hoping you could make me a sandwich right now.
It seems like that's what you're here to do. That's all I do for you, honestly. I don't do anything else but make Daniel sandwiches, everyone, which is actually a very fun, somewhat of a fun segue. I have a game for you.
Okay. Okay. And I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna bring it up right now. Go for it. But because we're talking about how I'm placing orders at a fast food restaurant- Bring it up... I think it's a good time to. I do too.
I do too. It sounds really weird. Like, these are just not the same. Yeah. Yeah. No noise canceling, so I hear my own voice and it's really- Yeah... awkward. Ugh.
Well, actually, I turn off the noise canceling on my AirPods- Ooh, that's weird... when we're recording so, so that I can hear my own voice. Oh. It's, it's... You're supposed to...
I- if, if you don't hear your own voice, you're probably... I don't know, it just, it's a... I like hearing my own voice- That's-... when you record... I heard that- It's, it's actually helpful...
you're a sociopath if you like hearing your own voice. Like, I actually heard- I-... that's a real thing. No, I hate hearing my own voice from the recording.
[laughs] But while I'm recording, I like to hear my voice so I'm not projecting- Ouch... louder than I need to, and so I hear myself and my enunciation and stuff.
Have I just been- I think I'm just better, I think I'm just better than you. I don't know. It's probably just- Have I just been screaming this entire time the last 26 episodes? [laughs] Like, "Daniel, can you hear me?
Daniel!" [laughs] "Yeah, so I wanted to play a game." [laughs] Anyways, let's go ahead and play our game. [laughs] All right. All right. So we're talking about fast food, ordering fast food, all that fun stuff.
So I wanted to, I created a bracket over here of the best fast food restaurants in the US, and I wanted to play this bracket with you. Okay.
So we're gonna see which fast food restaurant you think is the best, and I have it all populated and stuff right now. Beautiful. So I'm actually going to move my mic forward. Okay. So I can... Sorry, everybody.
I gotta be able to see what I'm typing here. Okay, so up close and personal. Let me move this a little bit, too. And we're getting real, real. Beautiful. All right. Let's play the game. So- Ooh...
starting off, McDonald's versus Chick-fil-A. Oh, you can't start with those. That ha- I- That has to be the finale. Nope. Oh, that's hard. Nope. Okay. Yep. My answer is Chick-fil-A. I do have to qualify.
I actually like McDonald's. I'm one of those weirdos. But I have to say Chick-fil-A. I have to say- Dude... Chick-fil-A. I have to be consistent here. Yes. Yes. But this is hard. I mean, you can't start with Chick-fil-A.
I'm just gonna pick Chick-fil-A for every single answer. I know. I was like- Anyways, let's continue... I bet Daniel's gonna let Chick-fil-A win this- Go ahead... whole thing.
Um, next one is gonna be Taco Bell versus Chipotle. Oh, okay. I see what you're doing. Uh, Chipotle, 100%. All right, so Chipotle takes this round. And we're gonna, it's gonna go into a semifinals.
Are you saying, are you saying Chipotle with a S-H? Chipotle, yeah. How are you pronouncing this word? Say, lean into the microphone and, and, and say the word. Chipotle. [laughs] Wait, is it Chipotle?
[laughs] I know it's a C- Ha... I know it's a C-H. It is. It is. But I'm pretty sure it's Chipotle. It is, it is patently not Chipotle. Chipotle. [laughs] Uh, yeah. It's- I say it with an S-H- Uh...
and I didn't realize that till now. Oh, yeah. No, you're, you're wrong. Wrong. But that's okay. [laughs] All right, cool. I do think Chipotle wins that one as well. Um, Five Guys versus Popeyes.
Ooh, gotta go with the good Five Guys. Me too. That's a, that's a delightful vibe. Uh, uh, uh, but j- Popeyes gets a bad rep. It's pretty good. It is pretty good. But, but Five Guys is, is delicately prepared. Yeah.
And when's like the last time you've like gone on like, "Yo, honey, I'm gonna go get us some Popeyes. What do you want?" [laughs] She's like, "No, I want the Chipotle."
There's a Popeyes not, not too far down the road that we pass quite frequently, and I, I have considered it. [laughs] But yeah, it's been, it's been a hot minute since I've been to a Popeyes. Probably a few years.
All right. Let's see. In-N-Out versus KFC. In-N-Out. I mean, hands down. Hands down. That's an easy one for me as well. Cool. Wendy's versus Raising Cane's. All right. I have never been to a Raising Cane's. Yeah, I know.
So you have to- So I have to say Wendy's- You have to... purely based on just historical data and evidence. I would- I don't know... definitely choose Cane's over that, but mainly 'cause their sauce.
I think so, so would a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people like Raising Cane's. It- Is it Raising or Raisin? Raising. You're raising g- with... You're Raising Cane's. Um- What, what is a cane?
What, what is r- what is it to raise? What is the verb to raise a cane? Maybe Cane is the founder and you're raising him or a chicken. Why? Why? Is it a, is that another word for a chicken?
Maybe the founder- I will say this... is a chicken. The founder is a chicken. I will say this. Their tenders are good. Okay. But they're average. The sauce is...
And I'm sure everybody that you talk to that loves Raising Cane's will say the same thing. Like, their, their chicken is good, but it's their sauce that is incredible. Yeah.
It's kinda like, it's kinda like a, it's not like, um, Chick-fil-A sauce, but it's- I'm gonna have to go check out a Raising, a Raising Cane's. Ra- a Raisin, a Raisin Cane. [laughs] A raisin, a cane of raisins. Ugh.
I'm gonna have to go check out a cane of raisins. Let's see. The next one is Burger King or Shake Shack. Oh, that's- Shake Shack. Yeah. Uh, uh, you have to.
Burger King, that's, uh, uh, shouldn't even, they shouldn't, Burger King shouldn't have even made it to the tournament. I know. [laughs] Only, honestly, only their social media should make it to the tournament.
That's true. That is true. Other than that- That's true... like, they suck. I'll, I'll give them that. I'll give them that.
Um, by the way, this is round one, everybody, and then it'll go into like a semifinal kinda thing, and then we're gonna kind of- Let's do it. Yeah. Let's do it. All right. Cool. Subway versus Domino's. Uh, do Domino's.
Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, let's see. Panera or Starbucks? Let's do Starbucks for the vibes. Yeah. Good vibes. Good vibes. Sweet. So that was round one, all right? We're gonna keep on- All right... moving on here.
All right. Chick-fil-A versus Chipotle. Chick-fil-A, hands down. I already- I love Chipotle. I already know where this is going. Can't, can't go against Chick-fil-A.
Uh, Five Guys versus In-N-Out.Ooh, I'm gonna have to go with In-N-Out on this one. Mm. You know- I know... I, I love in, in, a, a Five Guys burger. Yeah. I love it. Yeah.
I think they make great burgers, and I think In-N-Out's- Yeah... burgers are just meh. Yeah. But that's who. Okay. This is your bracket, not mine. [laughs] Okay, okay. Uh, let's see, Wendy's versus Shake Shack.
Uh, we're gonna do Shake Shack. Okay. Good choice. I like Shake Shack a lot, too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Shake Shack's pretty good. Domino's versus Starbucks. Starbucks. Okay. Interesting. For the vibes, for the vibes.
For the vibes, the good vibes. All right. Now we have the semi, uh, semifinal, and it's gonna be Chick-fil-A versus Five Guys. Or, you know... Oh, we have to do Chick-fil-A. This is too easy. Oh, wait.
I mean, it's- You didn't say Five Guys. No, I said In-N-Out. You said In-N-Out. I- But still... this is my bracket, I guess... Chick-fil-A. Chick-fil-A's the answer. Chick-fil-A's the answer. All right.
Chick-fil-A's the answer. And then, uh, where are we at over here? Shake Shack versus Starbucks. Shake Shack. We have pretty similar taste. For, for the most. Um, besides your weird In-N-Out, but, uh, that's all right.
I don't know, In-N-Out is, uh, is, is unattainable. I can go to Five Guys right now. I can't go to In-N-Out unless I'm on the West Coast. Mm. So there's something about it that's like a commodity. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I can't, I can't quite... Not commodity. It's the opposite of commodity. Yeah. You know what I'm saying. I know what you're saying. Well, this is the final, and I feel like I know exactly what you're going to say here.
[laughs] What's the, what's the final? I don't think, I don't think you've left any surprise for us, but Chick-fil-A versus Shake Shack. Shake Shack. No, just kidding. [laughs] Chick-fil-A, obviously. Ah, you fooled me.
Obviously. [growls] All right. What if that's how I laughed every time? [laughs] What if I- You know, dude, have you ever seen Wild Thornberrys? Yes. [growls] [laughs] I'm Nigel Thornberry. Oh, my God.
Why do we know about- I talk about- Wild Thornberrys... I make that noise way too often. [growls] [laughs] [sighs] That is so- That's how I asked, that's how I asked Courtney to marry me.
[laughs] I just said- I took- [laughs] Oh, my God. I got on one knee, I got on one knee... All right, all right, all right, I got... Okay, calm down, everyone. [laughs] I got on one knee, and I said [growls] [laughs]
And she said, "Oh, my God, yes, I do, I do." [laughs] No, she said [growls] [laughs] And then y'all kissed, and you put the ring on. Oh. Oh, gosh. Oh, that's, that's my ab workout for the month. [laughs] I know.
I have tears in my eyes. Oh, God. I got tears. Um. Oh, that is, that is rich. Okay, wait, before we move on- We should just end the episode right now. That was just... We should. Oh. Ooh. Go ahead. Go ahead.
All right, before we move on to your, um, I think you have, like, some conversations you wanna talk about, but- No, I don't... before we do that, I've been writing down a wrist, a... Wait. I'm so ADHD.
When I went to the beach last week- You're so stupid... I got so many bug bites. Like, you can see one here. It's all over my arm. Oh, yeah. Dude, those are the worst. It, ugh.
Are, are they no-see-ums, or are they mosquitoes? Do you know about no-see-ums? These aren't mosquitoes, so these might be a no-see-um. No, I don't know about them. It's a thing.
It's a thing in the South, 'cause you are in North Carolina, right? Oh, because you don't see them, and they get you.
You literally don't see them, but they bite you like, like a swarm of gnats, like hundreds of just tiny little bites that you're like, "Where did this come from?" Okay. And it bothers you for, like, a week or two. Yep.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's probably what it was. That's- It's super- Dude... unfortunate. Were you at the beach when you got those bites, or were you off the beach? I don't know.
I just went to bed scratching myself, and I- Those no-see-ums... probably didn't realize how bad it was- Yeah... until I watched- Yeah, it's terrible... the episode that came out today, so episode 26.
And, like, I start off the podcast, me just itching myself, and I'm like, "Uh, that's weird. It looks like I have a- Yeah... I'm withdrawing from something." My, both of my kids and my wife get those a lot.
Actually, I do too. Mosquitoes, I don't typically get a lot of mosquito bites, but all my kids get mosquito bites. Dude. So we, like, treat- I get-... our house and stuff. It's, like, a whole thing. Yeah.
I get the worst mosquito bites, and they're, like, massive here in Wisconsin, but... Ugh, terr- that's terrible. Social selling. I have a stat I just found that HubSpot released this year, in 2025.
They said 78% of businesses that use social selling outperform those that don't. And I wonder, you and I are both social sellers. I mean, that's- Oh, we're the best... we live and breathe. There's no one better.
Brian Lamana wishes, Brian Lamana, Brian Lamana wishes. Brian Lamana wishes. He d- Um. He texts me every night, "I wish I was as good as you at social selling." Darren McKee, Darren McKee tries, tries- They don't...
to be. No. Good luck, guys. They can't, they can't. Tell me more about why you social sell and what
you, what led to the whiteboard phenomenon that you, I, I believe you popularized, and I'm not gonna lie, I have, I have some accounts I'm going after right now. I am gonna get a whiteboard, and I'm gonna steal that.
I, I love it. I love it. I'm gonna do that. Well- That's gonna be my thing. That's my thing now. [laughs] That's not your thing. I invented that. You, yeah, you...
Dude, okay, so I, I'll answer this question, and it is funny 'cause my friend, shout out to Dave McDonald, he is the one that told me not...
I always whiteboarded when I did a video, but he was like, "Videos take too long to record.
Instead, I just go to Photo Booth, and I draw their logo as quickly as I can, and I take a picture, and I put that picture- Love that... in the email thread or on a LinkedIn DM." And so- How big is the whiteboard?
I gotta eyeball this. 8 by 12 maybe. All right, so 36 by 48 inches is way too big. You're like this. You're, like, holding it up your whole wall.
[laughs] You should put, like, a, a picture of your family in the bottom left corner so they're like, "Oh, he's a family guy." [laughs] Um. 48 by 48 on rollers. 119 bucks on Amazon.You're like right into that GIF.
All right, all right, back, back- Um, anyways... back to your story. Back to your story. Yes. [laughs] Tell us more.
Yeah, so he's the one that was like, "Hey, I just draw logos, and it works really well for me, and I put it in my email chain."
And let's stop right there to give a quick shout-out to our sponsor of today's episode, and that is Tango. I have been seeing Tango everywhere on LinkedIn, so I caved. It's like one of those things, right?
When you see something enough, you end up caving, and you decide to try it. I caved, I tried it, and honestly, I think what they're building is gonna change the way that CRM automation is done.
A lot of companies today do data entry and all that fun stuff, but what Tango is doing is they're automating every single thing that a sales rep does within Salesforce.
You just have to do it once, and it'll automate it from there on out.
So things like adding leads to Salesforce, progressing a deal from stage one to stage two, uh, closing a deal, creating your quote, all of those processes can now be automated if you just do it one time.
And so that's what they're doing for organizations. I think it's incredible. I think it's incredible. I used it for a HubSpot workflow.
I also used it for a step-by-step how-to guide on setting up HubSpot webhooks in Demo. So many use cases. Literally anything that you wanna automate in your CRM can pretty much be done through Tango, so go check 'em out.
It's tango.us. That's T-A-N-G-O dot U-S. Now let's get back to the episode. And I'm like, "Oh, crap. Let me try that." So I tried it. It's still... I was actually gonna bring this up today.
It is still the highest reply rate I get from anything, is the picture of me holding a whiteboard, and I draw their logo. A lot of times I'll call it out.
Like, a, a, a meeting that I booked with Vidyard, I called out that I had black s- like smudge marks all over my fingers. And like right above the image, I just put in parentheses, "LOL at the black smudge marks."
And like they, they like that kind of stuff. So- Yep... so why do I social sell? Because I'm scared of cold call. And so I think... [laughs] No, k- um- And I mean- I don't cold call. I don't cold call.
And it's not because I'm scared to, I just don't want to. I hate cold calling. I just, I believe deeply that I can more effectively create meeting and buying opportunities- Yeah... not cold calling. Yeah.
And there will be people that die on a hill- Yeah... arguing with me about this. Yeah. You- I think there's a time and place. I- I'll be honest, but I'd rather just not do it. I will, I will say this.
I will die on the hill that cold calling is the easiest way to book the most amount of meetings, when you're going for quantity. Yes. Now, when you're going for quality, very well-researched- Yes...
these kind of like, these meetings that you know will 100% go somewhere if you get it, I personally believe social selling, if you're selling into a, um, into an industry where they are somewhat active on social, or even cold emails.
'Cause if... Nobody's gonna respond to a cold email and take a meeting unless it's relevant to them right now. For cold calls, people are scared to say no over the phone or in person. Yes.
So they'll say yes, and then you get more no-shows. Again, that's completely fine. Like especially if you're an SDR and you're booked on meetings, cold call all day long, and then mix- Yes...
in a little bit of social selling emails. So I will die on that hill. So let's define social selling as well. I, I, I imagine most of our audience knows, if, if not all of it, but like- What is it?
We're, we're getting some listeners. So- Yeah. We are...
real quick, social selling is the process of using social media platforms like LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, whatever platform, to find, connect with, engage, and to nurture sales prospects.
Instead of cold calling or hard selling, it emphasizes building authentic relationships and offering value through content, conversations, and thought leadership.
That is, in a nutshell, what social selling is, when Troy and I talk about why we lean toward content creation and social selling as opposed to your typical sales motion with like a spray and pray cold email sequencing and cadencing.
The, the time and place, but, you know. Anyways, back to the, the story at, at hand with the whiteboard. Tell me, tell me two or three, you know, big, big stories about how those worked. You don't have to use real names.
I know you can obfuscate some of those companies. But I know you've, you've won some pretty major deals from the whiteboard. Yeah, yeah. So when I was...
I'll tell, I'll tell one name, um, only because I don't have to tell who I reached out to at that company. But like AutoZone was one of the companies that I booked through my- AutoZone.
And it was the first email to this person- AutoZone. Hey, I'm talking. I know. I had to do that. So it was the first... [laughs] This guy's got like a squirrel brain just like me. He's like, "Oh, he said AutoZone.
Let me just go ahead and [laughs] sing that song." Oh, oh, oh, O'Reilly. Totally different. Um, [laughs] anyways- Same, same company... AutoZone, that was on the first email.
It was just, I drew their logo, and I wrote out AutoZone, and it was disgusting. But that booked the meeting. Oh, yeah.
When I was at Metadata, the largest new logo deal closed was from a whiteboard, um, from a whiteboard and a video, actually. Was that your whiteboard, or is it someone else using your strategy? It was my whiteboard.
And then I get messages, I'd say, they used to, when I post about it, I'll get a message like the next week saying, "I just booked a meeting using a whiteboard." But there's like a guy named JP Campbell. He took...
Like a lot of people read the advice, but they don't actually put it into action. Yes. He always sends me like, "Dude, just booked another meeting, just booked another meeting." Yes.
And it's always like he'll show me him with a whiteboard. Such a cute guy, too. But- I mean, I have, I have Amazon pulled up right now. Dude, just- And transparently, there are so many different sizes.
I have to get a, a ruler and a, like a tape measure and like figure out- Measure it. Measure it through the screen. I, I'm going to. [laughs] Measure it through the screen. Wait, hold it back up. Hold it back up.
Hold on. Why do you have that right there? [laughs] Oh, we got three inches by 1.75. Okay. Um- It's funny. When you said 1.75, it showed- We should- It showed the actual, it said four inches on the thing.
[laughs] We should, we should do... I need to get a whiteboard that's this big. [laughs] And just say, "I drew your logo," but just illegibly small, and just like, just like blotchy and scribbled. Oh, goodness.
Oh, that'd be funny. Um, are you allowed to- Ew, yeah. So let me-... to share the, the deal value or the, the logo of that largest deal for Meta Base? The Meta Base, Metadata. That's all right. Metadata. My bad.
Metadata, that one was a little over 205K. The AutoZone pipeline, I never closed it, 'cause I ended up leaving that company, going full time on Demo. But that was over 500K is, for pipeline, qualified pipe.
Um- Total contract, is that over two, three years, or do you remember? That's the, that's year oneUm, but that was, that was- Big, big- Yeah... big logo. Yeah.
But, um, yeah, I mean, I use it all the time, like Vidyard- Oh, yeah... I've gotten many of the Vidyard from it. I had-- I've gotten many meetings from Demo because of the whiteboard. I still use it. Actually,
I, I can't really share my screen, but anyways, if you look at my Photobooth app, it's just me, hundreds of pictures- Mm... every single day just taking pictures of myself. Photobooth, that's a, that's a- Classic...
yeah, that's super classic Remember making those pictures back in the day? And it was like- I mean, I just do not, I just, uh, I have not opened that app for a decade, but it's still there. Some- Take a picture...
somehow Apple still kicking and screaming. Drag it into the email chain. You're good to go. Love that. But- Uh, switch-... yeah, social selling, you also asked, like, why it works. Yeah, yeah.
And it's just because you become a familiar face, like especially again- Yeah... if you're industry, the industries that you sell into are active on social media, and they see your face, they see that you share- Yes...
helpful things- Yes... authentic things, things like anything that they can take from and be like, "Oh, that guy's kind of funny," or, "Oh, that guy shared something that helped me out." Your face- Yes...
your name becomes familiar. It's a lot easier to book a meeting that way, so. I have meetings every single week, and this is a, this is a fact.
This is happening to me now week after week after week, saying, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I knew about Beehiiv, but then I saw something you said, and it, it, it got me on this meeting. It got me on this call.
It made me interested enough to meet." And these are people who I'm not even necessarily booking meetings with. They're just coming inbound because of something I said.
Now, the philosophy of do we qualify that as inbound or outbound, uh, to each org their own, but I think they're t- the familiar face. Uh, uh, y- you can't be overstated. I mean- Yeah...
even the way that I firmly believe and will argue that this podcast actually helps Demo's growth and Beehiiv's growth. This is not a Demo or Beehiiv-endorsed podcast. This is a totally separate business venture.
I mean, I, I guess Demo somewhat endorsed being that Riverside [laughs] is owned by Demo. Um, but, but this is just, we happen to be affiliated with those two companies.
Troy is the founder of Demo, and me as a, you know, salesperson at, at Beehiiv, but it's like, it's the familiarity and seeing our faces and the clips that come from this, like, it's just a matter of time, and, uh, it's already happening.
For me, I mean, people are already seeing Two Dads in Tech and, and wanting to talk to me about Beehiiv because of seeing my face all over the place. And, and let's talk about being a familiar face. Yes.
You posted an Instagram clip- Mm-hmm... of, you know, just a random clip of Two Dads in Tech. I wouldn't say it went mega viral, but it's- Not yet... dude, it's doing numbers. And I looked at it this morning.
The- I was like, "Holy cow, what- The shares are- Yeah, what is it?... are outdoing the, the... My, my cue for virality, at least, like, a signal, is that the shares outdo the likes.
Oh, I guess it's not gonna show me the shares on my desktop, but we're at seven hundred and fifty-two likes, and last I checked, we were over a thousand shares. Yeah.
So that's where you're getting two, three, four, ten degrees separated from your specific audience, and I mean, look, I have... How many followers do I have? I have five hundred and twenty-nine followers.
So I have already more likes than followers, and so I think, uh, you know, I didn't put paid spin behind this. I didn't say anything super fancy in the description. It's just a thing that's going to continue growing.
And Instagram, I love Instagram's algorithm because it's not gonna suppress this in two weeks or three weeks. Like, it's gonna keep getting shared and surfaced for weeks. I think it's- Yeah. Yeah...
it's the platform that does that best in my opinion. Yeah. Um, so. And I thought it was a good clip, but I didn't think it was, like, a great clip to be like- We didn't even give the answers.
Dude, we have other clips that are just, like, unbelievably good. So much better. And I'm like- Yeah... "Okay, we need to keep doing that then because-" That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Just post the thing.
That's my takeaway from every viral piece of content I've ever created- Just post it... is, like, just post a stupid thing. Yeah.
Um, but it's interesting, speaking of, like, sharing content a- and social selling and being a familiar face, there's a term called sharenting, so parenting and sharing, sharenting.
It's the practice of parents sharing content about their children on social media, and there's a lot of studies right now. We've discussed this briefly- Yeah, we did... in past episodes.
But there's a lot of these studies right now about how you should determine a child's consent in those moments- Mm-hmm... and concerns around the privacy of children. Yeah. Yeah, we talked about that.
Um, a great example that comes to mind for me frequently, we have a local media company that my wife and I operate, and we do reels. We have an Instagram, we have a Facebook.
We, we share a lot of content around the, the media and, and newsletters and articles themselves, and we're always trying to make sure our kids' faces aren't in the videos just in case one pops off.
We're like, "Uh, we don't really want that." But we had this amazing video once, and it was, like, really well done.
It was, we-- my kid was running through a corn maze, and I was, like, following him at his height, and it just looked awesome. And I realized after the video, I was like, "Oh, face isn't in it. This is awesome."
The shirt he was wearing, it just had the name, logo, and title of his school. I was like, "Dang it." And so I had to think about, like, I think we did end up sharing it, um, for what it's worth. Yeah, yeah.
But I was like, "I don't know, man. Uh, things just... People get so weird." Yeah. I don't like the internet knowing where my kid goes to school. Like, that feels- Little weird, yeah... that feels like an overstep.
So I don't know. We're- Yeah... we're always trying to think through the privacy concerns, but, like, where do you draw the line- Mm-hmm... of parents sharing for or on behalf of or about their kids? Yeah.
Yeah, we did kind of talk about this when, a little bit, I think last episode or maybe the one before, where it's like, do you think parents would rather market their children or parent their children?
We did talk about that, yeah. It's a weird-- I mean, at the end of the day, until they're,
I mean, you know, legally, until they're 18, you're allowed to consent everything for them, and I think that when they become- Which can get weird, right? Like should- Which can get weird.
16 year old, he shouldn't be able to be like, "No, I'm gonna post- Yeah... this about you because you're 16. You can't tell me otherwise." That's weird. That's weird. Um-[sighs] Dude, it kind of- I don't know...
it kind of goes back to our, our first conversation where, in my opinion, as a high level, parent the way you wanna parent, I don't care. Like, if it's, whatever.
Like, some people might want to live that lifestyle where it's like, "I wish I had all of this attention on me, and I was never able to get it, so let me, you know, put it on my kid," even if that kid is three years old, and they can't be, "No, I don't wanna be famous," whatever.
I feel like that's kind of like a Justin Bieber scenario, to be honest. He kind of just got, like, thrown into the limelight. But, um- Dude, I mean, yeah, what do you even do? He's rough now. He's rough right now.
But- It's crazy. Like, on Instagram, he's still posting a whole bunch of, like, feel-good statements and photos about, like, became a Christian however many years ago now, and he'll stay...
He'll still s- kind of say some things around that, look fairly healthy, all that stuff. But then, like, you'll see, like, paparazzi things where you're like, "Whoa, dude, are you all right?"
And- Yeah, he's- I don't know, man. I personally don't like that. Like, when I see stuff about, like, Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber, like,
I don't know, you, you go down the list of, like, these superstars that are just known worldwide- Amanda Bynes. Like, all these people that- Yeah... yeah. I'm like, man, like, I feel so bad for them.
Me too Like- Britney Spears Like- I mean, all of them. Yeah, like- All these ones that were young. Yeah.
Well, I feel bad for them, and I, I, I feel bad that the spotlight is on them in these, in these live or die moments of their lives, like- Yeah. You can't even go to a restaurant. You can't... Yeah. Yeah.
Ironically, we're talking about it now, but like, you know, it's, it's...
Amanda Bynes, like, that's a great example of, like, oh, man, like, it's just a, it's just a night and day from her stardom as a teen on, like, The Amanda Show and all that, if you're old enough to remember those things, and to now, where it's like, dang, man.
I don't know. I- Yeah, I feel bad too... it's, it's weird. It's, it's- I feel bad for it...
a- and that's like, my wife and I have talked about it, and I, I'm nowhere near fame whatsoever, but I always have said that I, I never wanna be famous.
I just wanna be, like, wealthy, and, and wealthy is subjective, right? But at the end of the day, like, I don't- Financially free... ever want to be... Yeah.
I don't ever wanna be in a situation where, like, I'm out with my kids, and people are taking pictures. Like, that seems super- Yeah... uncomfortable and- It's weird...
super weird, which kind of ties back the whole conversation, which is it's up to the parents, and it's up to what they want. But I do think that it's somewhat- Yeah...
I wouldn't say strange, because I don't wanna judge what other parents are doing, but I, I don't think that... Just the, the internet's a really scary place, and it's a really- Yeah, it is...
weird place, and it causes- It is... a bunch of mental illnesses and a bunch of weird things to happen to you or whatever. And- Yeah... there's a lot of pros, but there's also a lot of cons that come with it.
So, um, me, not a big sharer of my children, mainly 'cause I just, that's, it's my family. But, um, but yeah, that's kinda what I take about it.
With the rise of the internet, there is this ongoing conversation about digital first sales versus- Mm... hopping on a flight and g- doing an on-site, and the, the handshakes that exist with those types of sales motions.
And,
you know, uh, there's a study by Gardner that came out this year, and it says 80% of B2B sales interactions between suppliers and buyers in 2025 and beyond a- and probably increasing, increasingly so, will occur in digital channels.
And I think tools like, um, I'm blanking right now. There's all these, like, deal room tools now. Yeah, yeah. Align, Trumpet, all those. Yeah I, I can't even think of a single... Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
I can't think of a single one. There's like five of them. Um, Notch, you know, the list goes on. There's a lot, yeah. And
I think it's so interesting to me because most of my life does occur behind a screen, but I've also done the hop on a flight and do on-site, and every time I leave those meetings, I'm like- Yeah...
I couldn't have done that- Yeah, for sure... without doing what I just did. Yeah. So how, how, how do digital sales channels affect business moving forward?
How do, how do we survive, and like, what's the, what's the balancing act? Yeah. How much in person versus behind a screen should we expect? Yeah. Well, I guess, can you elaborate on digital sales?
Like, does that mean email and phone calls, or is that like Zoom- No, I think-... and like tech and stuff? The whole nine yards, uh, end to end. Everything. From outreach to- Okay...
qualification to your proof of concept to- Yep... your technical deep dive to your onboarding and training to post-sale customer success all the way through- Yeah. Yeah... just never meeting in person.
I mean, I, I have hundreds of customers I've never, ever met in real life. Yeah. And for a lot of those people, it works. But for some of these huge logos, like, ah, you gotta go, you gotta go to the, the office. Yeah.
I mean, even, even when you are
doing visits and visiting people on site and stuff, I, I would still say the majority of your deal probably gets done over a digital channel, to be honest, whether it's a phone call- Yes...
text message, email, et cetera.
Like, if you're going on site and doing a POC, and then you get back and you're doing a bunch of back and forth emailing, like, I would still say the majority of deals are done through a digital channel, even if you do in-person sales.
Those in-person meetings are typically, you know, like one hour, two hour, or you go out for a happy hour- Yeah... happy hour for a few hours, and then you go back and you converse via email for the most part.
That's why I asked if, like, email was involved. But what I will say is, I think COVID, we've, we've talked about COVID a lot. I think COVID- Mm-hmm... showed that business can get done without needing to be in person.
However, like you mentioned, these large, complex enterprise deals that you really want to win, having somebody on site will always outperform somebody that just sits behind the screen and handles conversations there.
And it's amazing what can happen when you bring, like, a VP of sales or a VP of customer success onto an on-site meeting and they talk about, like, "Hey, if you become a customer, if you make this investment, here's what things will look like afterwards," and that's the VP of, you know, CS saying it, and then they can just, like, walk you through it in person.
I think those interactions will always, always beat an email or a Zoom call, but they're not needed. They're not needed, like you said, about 80% of the time.
Like, you can do a lot of it just like this, like what we're doing. I think transactional sales is going to look so different forever. In like three years, I think it will. Yeah.
I think there's a lot in sales that-Is cyclical. Everyone cold calls and then it's saturated, and then no one- Yep. Yep... cold calls, and then everyone cold emails, and then it's saturated, so everyone cold calls again.
I think right now we're seeing a shift that is permanent. I think transactional emails, transactional cold calls, transactional outbound, fill in the blanks- Yeah. Yep... transactional sales is being eliminated.
Not now all at once, cut it off, but we are seeing automations and AI agents and AI tools do what transactional salespeople have been doing on a phone.
It's so funny you're wearing this, like, telemarketing headset right now. Yeah, what do you mean? Like telemarketing. Telemarketing will be replaced.
This is the first I'm having that thought, but I think I would die on that hill.
Because if you've ever gotten a cold call from a telemarketer, and when I say telemarketing, I'm defining, like, the absolute, like, mass parallel cold callers that are cold calling thousands of people a day.
They get hung up or non-answers 99% of the time. And if they get one sale, they've paid themselves back- Yeah... in, in what their cost is to do business. So why would that change if all they need is one?
I- why would you pay for a human being if all you need is one? If you can more effectively do what one person is doing with a.001% success rate, just get a tool behind that.
Even if, even if they get more answers and more people know it's just a robot talking, who cares?
Like- To my understanding- The real human- To my understanding, AI cold calling is illegal, though, so it might force- In some, in some countries. I actually don't know all the details behind this.
I don't know all the details. I know Mack from Comscore has just- He, he dies on that hill... recently posted on this, and he will die on this hill. Yeah.
But he also lives in Europe, and there's a lot of regulations there- That's true... that are totally different than the United States, and they have to do with the headquarters of the, the company doing the outreach.
Uh, not the time and place to get into that, but I've, I've of course helped with, like, GDPR junk in my current role and in past roles, and it's- Yeah, I know... it's complicated. But- Can of worms, for sure...
I think what tools are doing that's bringing digital sales rooms and humans together are enabling effective, skilled humans to do the job better. But I think people- Yeah...
who have been kind of leaning too far into the transactional day-to-day, uh, I don't know. I... You know- Yeah... it's funny.
Like, what, what I think I realized the other day, I've been wasting so much time documenting stuff, and it's stuff that you can just figure out how to do with tools.
So I'm talking, like, hours writing SOPs, explaining how to do things, answering the same Slack questions over and over again. But then I found this tool, and it's called Tango AI. Dude. Do you know Tango AI?
I've seen them. I... W- what do they do? It's like having a personal documentation assistant that actually does the work for you, but it doesn't eliminate who you are and what you still need to do.
It just gets you up to the point where there has to be human intervention.
I'll do a task once, navigate through a platform, set up an integration, and Tango automatically turns it into a step-by-step guide, screenshots, descriptions, everything that I can share with my team.
And it doesn't look ugly like some Notion doc either. It looks legit. You can drop it into Slack. You can share it with the team. You can embed it in tools. It's clean.
And in my opinion, if you're in tech, sales, parenting, whatever, you're probably the go-to person for, like, how do I do this?
And a lot of times you have to rewrite this whole process from scratch, when if you have Tango AI, Tango ends that reduction. Do it once, send the whole process to Tango AI, and just move on. It's awesome.
It's a cool tool. I think you should check it out. And why did I even bring it up, Troy? Tell us. Well, because Tango is our partner, and fun fact, I acted like I didn't know what it was, but I actually used Tango.
This was before they were even a sponsor. This was- I love it... six, seven months ago. I used it to create step-by-step guides. Now they're more automation focused. So cool, yes.
But like, for example, a lot of our customers were like, "Hey, how do I set up this web hook? How do I connect with this integration?" Or, "How do I do this integration?" All this stuff. Yes.
All I had to do was go through and, like, do it myself, and then it- Yes... turned it into documentation, and I just said, "Hey," he like, "Hey, here you go," and it's step by step with screenshots, et cetera.
Like, Tango's great. Great tool. Yes. Which is an amazing pivot to something that I have in my notes. Let's go.
I have a bunch of random questions that I want to ask you that I have just been writing down in my notes for- Yes... the last, uh, I don't know, day or two. Yes. And I wanted to get your, [laughs] your answers.
So one of them is more deep. We'll end off- Okay... with that one. All right. Raspberries. When you're eating raspberries, do little seedling thingies get stuck in your teeth? Oh, absolutely.
I gotta go, I gotta go, like, look in the mirror and get them out or, like, wash my mouth out. Yeah, absolutely. My... I told my wife that, and she was like, "That only happens to you." And I was like, "No." No.
No, no, no. I was like, I, they like, you- Yeah... chew, and you kind of- Yes... feel them in your teeth. Yes. Okay. [laughs] I think I texted you this a long time ago.
When you shower, do you wash your legs or do you let the soap run down? [laughs] Uh, it depends on how dirty I am.
If I just worked out outside, like ran, biked, or if I'm like, just got done, like, spraying the yard for bugs and stuff, and, like, my, my legs are gross, I'm gonna, I'm gonna wash legs. Cool scrub.
A lot of times I'm just gonna do a quick little pat down, and I'm done. Yeah, yeah. I'm the same way. Yeah.
When you grab the last piece of anything from a box that is in the pantry, are you good at throwing that box away, or do you leave the empty box in there? Oh, gosh. No, I have to throw it away.
What are you talking about? Who... Do you leave the empty box in there? I'm not great at it, dude. I, I'll grab, like- Oh, God... I haven't eaten Pop-Tarts in forever, but I just, uh, I'm thinking of a box right now.
Like, if I grab, like, a last Pop-Tart, the, the empty box will 70% of the time stay in the pantry. I'm really bad- No. Yeah. That's just wrong. [laughs] I know.
Like, then someone's gonna go look at those Pop-Tarts and be like, "Ooh, Pop-Tarts," and then pick it up and just, like, air weight. Oh, that's bad. I know I'm wrong. I know I'm wrong. Okay.
You need to, you need to change. I know. Do you... One of my friends does this, and I think it's the weirdest thing in the world. Do you wash your chicken breast? All right. So this is gonna sound embarrassing. No. I...
No, no, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.I don't cook. [laughs] Oh. [laughs] So, um- Does I think-... your wife watch? I think, I think we... I don't know. I think so. Why? Are you supposed to? Text her.
Oh, wait. You're on your... Your phone's your camera. Yeah. Um, okay. I don't wash the chicken breast, but I had a friend one time, I went to his house, he was grilling chicken breast for us.
I don't think you're supposed to. Like, that is kind of weird. And dude, he was running this stuff under water like it was- No, no, no, no, no... like a fruit basket. [laughs] I was like- Yeah. No, no. Anyways.
We don't do that. We don't do that. I would, I would have noticed and, and, and, and put a stop to it if we do that. [laughs] That's weird. So you don't, you don't cook anything?
I do periodically, but really- [laughs] He's like, "I have to say this"... honestly with... No. Like, I, I know how to cook certain things, but like- Uh-huh... 99% of the time, I mean, I'm working until I smell dinner.
Like, that's just how our life is. Our kids are- Yeah, yeah, yeah...
very like, "Give me food or I'm gonna lose my mind," and I'll like smell dinner at 5:30 or 6:00, and that is my cue to get off of my, you know, get out of my office and go join the family for dinner. Let's see.
Last one that I have before I get into like the more seri- It's not really like a serious question, but it's a, it's a deep thinker. If you... This is kind of the same.
So let's say you're eating something with a wrapper on it, candy, whatever. Are you good at throwing the wrapper away, or do you typically...
Like, if you're eating it at your desk right now, do you leave it on your desk? What a weird question. Uh. No, no, no. Uh. Yeah. Uh, uh, uh What's on your desk right now? Tell me what...
Uh, obviously a tape measure's on your desk. Uh, there's no trash, but, but there, there... I wouldn't be surprised if there was. You don't wanna see my desk. Oh, it's bad.
I kind of do, because like, the other day you pulled out like a PS5, and now you just pulled out a tape measure. [laughs] I'm like, "What is going on behind this guy's-" It's so funny.
It's so funny how, how put together my, my office looks. It's all right there. [laughs] It's very intentionally cut off on the two sides that no one wants to see. Down, up, left, and right, all chaos, but this- Ugh...
area looks great, so. No. Yeah. It's all that matters. Yeah. It's all that matters. No. Okay. I know, I know.
So this question I have, um, randomly thought of it today, and it's do you think that we will ever be able to artificially create a human, one that can reproduce and do almost everything that a human can do?
So when you say artificially, are you meaning aside from like- IV... Yeah, yeah... an IVF- Aside from... Yes... embryo... aside from anything like that? Like, literally no humans connected to the child at all. Yes.
Just 100% artificial? Like, do you... Yes. Essentially, do you think robots at some point, not in our lifetime, I don't think, but will get so advanced that they can actually essentially be human and reproduce and stuff?
[sighs] I don't know. That gets into- I don't know... some like moral ethics and stuff that I don't know that I've actually had the time to think through.
The easy answer is actually for me to say yes, but what that means for my worldview, being that I believe in God and I believe that God created mankind, is whoa.
[laughs] Celebrate. [laughs] Ah, I don't know. If you're not watching, what just happened is balloons just started floating on my screen. I wanna make sure that never happens again.
Don't know how to turn that off, but if, if, if robots someday can create humans without humans being involved in the creation process, that is a groundbreaking discovery in a sense. Yeah.
I don't think it's off the table. Yeah. But it still makes me very uncomfortable to think about that potentially- Yeah... happening. Yeah, I agree. I don't- What do you think?
It is weird, and I, I know that we, we discussed several podcast episodes ago that we're gonna talk about, like, religion and, and... Not religion, right?
Like, people that follow a religion and people that don't and things like that. Yeah.
And then we, we've, we've kind of backtracked on like, "Ugh, can open up a can of worms," but I think that there, there's still room to have a conversation that's a, a very middle ground conversation for sure, but- Honestly, I think we're at the point...
We're on episode 27 right now of this recording. Maybe episode 30 we do that.
I, I mean, I think, yeah, we have enough, we have enough foundation and skeleton on this brand where we should probably start having conversations that make people uncomfortable.
I, I don't think we're ever gonna get where we wanna go without having some conversations that even make you and me uncomfortable.
I think we're, we're willing to be uncomfortable and sit in the sauce a little bit, and I'm, I'm, I'm totally for that. I think we need to.
If we're gonna, if we're gonna start being the podcast that really starts to break things, I think we have to start talking like that a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I think we're there. I think we're there.
Um- Yeah. I think so too. But that's all I had on my notes today, so before we end this episode, I'm gonna give it over to you. Do you have any more conversation starters, or should we say, "Hey, see you next episode"?
No, I think we can end it right after this. I was just gonna do a quick call back to the, either the last episode or two episodes ago where we talked about phubbing.
It's, uh, this idea of, like, choosing your smartphone over a human interaction, being so distracted or so addicted to your smartphone that...
That actually is what went, not viral, but got a lot of attention on Instagram, and I started digging a little bit because it, it got enough attention.
There's like 75,000 views or something right now, and you know on, like, Instagram and TikTok when you get to a certain point, there will be like a suggested search on the video. Yeah. So there's a suggested search.
I, I can't look right now what that search is, but it says something along the lines of, like, phubbing and parenting relationships with their children or something like it.
The term phubbing, P-H-U-B-B-I-N-G, phubbing, is like what people are searching for when they're finding this video organically of ours. And I didn't realize how big of a deal this actually was. Yeah.
You know, you and I kind of stumbled- Same... on this idea of- Yeah... phubbing... I didn't know that. And we had a conversation about it in real time.
It's a big deal, and it's affecting more than just relationships in the household.
I think, I, I posted about this on X as well when I posted on Instagram, and someone replied, they're like, "Hey, this is a problem so much so that..." They live in New York. They, they take the subway every day.
They're like, "Every day I'm on the subway, people are so glued to their screens." Yep. It's almost this fail-safe or false sense, rather, ofConfidence boosting and security.
When you're in these awkward situations where you're like, you know, twiddling your thumbs- What do I do? Yeah... like, "I don't really know what to do here. Let me just look at my phone."
And think about, like, if you're in an elevator and there's three, four people, and no one really knows each other, what are you gonna do? You're gonna look at your phone. Yeah, for sure.
No one's just standing there looking at the wall. Dude. But that's a, that's a learned behavior. Like, that's actually weird. It is weird. If you remove- The phone...
if you remove culture for 20 years, 20 years ago, you're not... There's nothing to do. Like, you're not- You're having a conversation with the person next to you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Like, "Hey, so what do you got going on today?" You know, "Read anything crazy on the news?" Like, "What about that game last night?"
Like, it's not groundbreaking conversations, but you're at least connecting with a human. So crazy. Now, no one, no one is doing that. Yeah.
Not a single person on the subway in New York, not a single person on the street. Everyone has their headphones in. That's crazy. Everyone's looking at their smartphones.
And what's crazy is you could maybe argue and justify why that's fine for out and about and stranger interactions.
That is emphatically wrong in the household, but it's bleeding into the household, and I think it's ruining relationships. I think it's causing divorces. I think it's damaging- I agree...
children's relationships with their parents. I think it's causing a false sense of either self-worth or even a lack of self-worth and self-esteem issues.
I think our kids are gonna have therapy sessions in, in 20 years about how their parents never listened to them. Yeah. It's- When I posted this- Do you- I mean, I could go on- Go ahead... and on and on about this. Do...
I'm gonna stop you right there. Do you think it's the new daddy issues? I, I think so. I think so too. Or daddy issues or, or mommy issues. Oh. I, I- Just, yeah...
someone, someone, like, old time, like, this was, uh, someone probably, uh, two... A, a generation older than us, maybe in their 40s or 50s, and they said they remember... And this is, this was, this was shocking.
They remember being at the dinner table frequently in their early childhood years, and their mom would get a phone call on their Nokia, so we're talking, like, late '90s, early 2000s,
and would leave the dinner table for 30 minutes to have work calls whenever that happened. Mm.
And it happened so much so that she gets nauseous hearing a ringtone that is familiar or sounds like that Nokia ringtone from 40 years ago- Interesting. Wow... or 30 years ago- Yeah... for this person. And I'm like,
I think that is happening right now. And we don't even- And I, I- We can't even see it, yeah... hate it. I'm... I got, I got nauseous reading...
I, I read a comment on this Instagram thread or in this Instagram Reel yesterday, and it said, "If your kids are in the room, put the freaking phone down." Yep. And I read that comment- Somebody...
I think somebody commented that on our video- Yes... or something. Yeah. On our video. I read that comment while my kids were right in front of me. And you had your phone. And I- Yeah, [laughs] yeah. I was, I was upset.
Yeah. I was actually fuming. Yes. I was like, "No. I, I will not be this dad." So I put my phone down immediately. Did you just grab it?
I was like, "This is-" I probably would've grabbed it, like, five minutes later- No, no, no... 'cause I'm so bad at it. I'm like, "I'm done with this for now." Yeah. Okay.
And it upsets me enough to, like, want to just, like, break my phone. Like, I've actually daydreamed about going to the ocean and just throwing my phone in it. [laughs] It's true. I think it's ruining our lives. It is.
I think our phones are ruining families and breaking important romantic relationships, relationships with your kids. Friendships, like- I hate it, and it's gonna affect our kids' romantic relationships as they grow up.
They've seen their parents just ignore each other and ignore them for the sake of a phone. Whatever's next, phones are not gonna be around forever.
There's gonna be something more advanced, more consuming, more addicting, and they're gonna choose that over their significant other, over their kids.
We're creating a generational cycle right now that is changing the fabric of humanity, and I hate it. Yep. And I don't know what the solution is other than talking about it and telling people to wake up.
It feels like I'm a conspiracy theorist. Like, people are- No, you're... Dude...
caught in the Matrix, and I'm like, are you seriously choosing this stupid scrolling TikTok idiocy over genuine, warm interactions with your kids? Like, you...
If you realized right now what you're doing, if you could s- if you could fast-forward 10 years and, and visualize what you're doing and how you're damaging your kids, I think you would never touch your phone again.
I think you would be so disgusted by it- Yeah... that you would have to divorce the technology in your life immediately. But I just don't think people are putting themselves in reality.
I think they're so consumed with these- By it. Yeah... pseudo realities online- Yeah... that they're, they're not taking the time to, to actually think through those things. Uh, and that scares me.
I think we're in a very, very scary cycle of technology and, uh, and human interactions, and I think it's gonna continue to be worse and worse before it gets better.
And we're gonna leave the episode off on that, 'cause that was an incredible speech. So go to twodadsintech.com. We have a brand-new website. T-W-O-D-A-D-S-I-N-T-E-C-H. Did I get that right? Oh, my God.
I can't believe- It's like a-... you just spelled that. Yeah. Is that nice? I don't know. I couldn't- Yeah. Twodadsintech... I couldn't follow those letters. [laughs] As though no one...
As though everyone doesn't know how to spell twodadsintech.com. Like, dude, some people, some people do two, though, like the number two. It's true. So any- It's true. We gotta, we gotta figure this out.
There's the balloons. We gotta turn it off. I hate these balloons. Anyways, Twodadsintech. Type out... I don't know if it actually comes up if you type out the number two, but, um- No, it does not.
We can buy that, though. Twodadsintech. Let's not... Let's buy that before this episode goes out, 'cause I do not wanna pay someone for that stupid domain. Oh. Now that you did this, you did this to us.
[laughs] Uh, twodadsintech.com or go to Twodadsintech everywhere, so YouTube, Spotify, Apple- Follow us on Instagram... wherever you- TikTok... want to listen. Check out the YouTube Shorts.
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This was a great episode. Troy, thank you very much. Yeah. Happy birthday. Hey, happy birthday, man. I'll see you tomorrow. I think we're recording- See ya... tomorrow too. Bye. [laughs] Take care. Bye-bye.