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Troy just ate- Oh, hey... a chocolate bar. Mm-hmm. And that's how we're kicking off this episode. This is Two Dads and Tech. Thank you to our regular listeners.

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We get DMs and emails from you every week, and it means so much. It means the world to us that people are actually looking forward to our episodes every Wednesday morning.

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Today, we have a very special guest, someone who, uh, we just before this episode were like, "You know what? It feels like we all know each other." Uh, but we don't. We've never met.

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We only know each other from our LinkedIn personas. It is the one, the only, Anthony Natoli is joining us on Two Dads and Tech today. Thanks so much, Anthony, for joining us. I'm so honored.

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I've been waiting, uh, to get the invite. Finally got it. So- [laughs]... hopefully I don't let everyone down. Yeah, dude, you know- You, you won't... it is what it is. I, I feel like we sucked there for a bit.

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Even Daniel and I were like- We did... "Oh, crap, we gotta record 'cause it's coming out tomorrow, and, uh, crap, what do we talk about?" So not- Oh, dude... supposed to podcast, but it is what it is.

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I'm not even gonna lie. We were like- [laughs]... "We should have a guest," 'cause we don't, we honestly don't have that many guests. Like we, we- Yeah...

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part of the appeal of Two Dads and Tech is it's just Troy and I, and it's a- actually a lot easier to do an episode without a guest. But Troy- Yeah... Troy and I were like, "We need a guest."

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Like, we, "It's been a few episodes. We need another guest." I was like, "Well, like Anthony's just always available it seems like, [laughs] so we should hit him up."

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[laughs] And we look like- I'm the loser- Yo, can you-... I'm always available. I was like, "Yo, can you hop on today?" [laughs] You're like, "Sure." It's like, yeah. Uh, I know. Yeah, this is great.

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Came, came in clutch, and I actually want to start off with a question for you, Anthony. Well, first, what's your middle name? I feel like you have such an Italian name. What's your middle name?

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I'll give you each one guess. What's it start with? Is it, is it, is it Gabagoosh? I don't know. I don't know any. [laughs] No. Is it- It starts with a, it starts with a J. Jeremy. J- Joshua. Anthony Joshua sounds good.

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Um- I don't know... is it like- I-... is it Italian? Jesus? I don't know. It goes with, it goes with the flow. It's, it's Italian. Italian. Anthony... Joe? Like Joe's- Yep... Pizza? Joseph. Oh, is it? Joseph. Joseph.

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Okay. Yep. That- Got it... that, that works. I like it. Okay. So my real question to you was, on February 1st, you said that you were gonna drop 30 pounds, and I believe a few weeks ago, you hit that milestone.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you did hit that milestone, what's next? Yeah, 34 pounds as of today. Um- Let's go. Oh. I, I obsessively weigh myself every morning, sometimes multiple times a day.

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It's probably unhealthy, but yeah, I think what's next for me is now that that weight is off my shoulders, which it was for a long time. I'd... Last two years, I've been really trying to lose that weight.

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I kept telling everyone about it, kept telling myself I was gonna do it, and I kept not doing it. I was like really depressed, and you wake up every day, and you keep screwing yourself over the day before.

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It's tough to look yourself in the mirror and, like, operate at the highest level. So I think the first thing for me is, like, I just am operating now just a way more confident Anthony. Yeah.

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Finally followed through with my commitment. I'm getting married in October, so, like, all of that- Let's go... all the ripple effects feel really good. Like, I'm going for my tuxedo tomorrow.

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I'm not gonna look in the mirror and feel embarrassed. You know?

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So, like, those little moments are the things that I'm really looking forward to next, like, being able to, like, take my shirt off at the beach and, like, not feel super insecure.

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And I have all of these fitness goals, and now they're just so much easier. Like, Daniel, like you get it, it's a lot easier to run- Yeah...

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a mile when you don't have a 30-pound weighted vest on, on your body, so- It is...

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there's, there's really a lot of different avenues I can go, like, fitness-wise, but I think for me, and, like, it's a pretty cliche answer, it's all the mental stuff- Yeah... that feels so damn good. Yeah.

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Dude- Well, first- I wanna back up... dude, first and... Go ahead... before, before we go down the rabbit hole, tell our listeners who you are. 60-second- I know... introduction. I was gonna say we're so rude.

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[laughs] 'Cause we know, we know who he is, but honestly, Anthony's a very interesting person. Give us, like, your little elevator pitch.

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You meet someone in an elevator, and they have no idea who you are, and you're trying to just give them the, the, the broad, the brushstroke. Who is Anthony? Yeah. I'm horrible at elevator pitches.

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That's what I tell them, but I'm gonna try my best. [laughs] So I'm 32. I live in New Jersey, born and raised. Used to live in San Francisco, um, right after college for, for about five and a half years.

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Moved back home during the pandemic. Um, I've been in sales, uh, since I graduated, started in mortgage, mortgage sales. Started in SaaS after that job as an SDR, worked my way up. Um, I've led an SDR team.

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I've been in enterprise sales, and right now I work, um, at LinkedIn as a senior account executive. Um, I live in New Jersey with my fiance, like I said, getting married in October, and we have a golden retriever.

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Um, I'm very into fitness, all New York sports, um, unfortunately. I love dogs. I love going to the beach.

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Um, I love traveling, and I really try to optimize my life for the things and the people that give me joy and eliminating everything else that doesn't. Nice. It's awesome. I love that elevator pitch.

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That's a great elevator pitch. Yeah, it was great. You should start telling people that you have- That you're great at them... an excellent elevator pitch. [laughs] Yeah. And then they just have high hopes.

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I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's awesome. That's awesome. Real quickly- Okay, now back, now back- Yeah... to the fun conversation now that everyone knows who you are. Yeah.

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Dude, while he was- Go ahead, Troy... explaining it, I was like, damn, we didn't even, like, tell people who he was. We just jumped right into it. No. That's on me, though. Hey, look- That's on me... that's not my fault.

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You're like, "Yo, tell us about- I know. I know... how you lost weight." I was like, "Bruh, no one knows who this guy is."

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[laughs] Dude, I literally went to my notes, and it's like, open up with this question, and so that's what I opened it up with. But, uh, so back to it. When you said that you were...

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You told everybody that you're gonna lose this weight, and you, you weren't doing it. You're just like, "Ah, I just kept telling myself that, telling friends that, never did it." What were you doing instead?

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Was it just like, was it like a just lazy kind of thing, or you just didn't feel like it, or what? Yeah. So this is a pattern for me, to be honest. Same with, like, my gambling addiction, my spending, my eating habits.

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I'm starting to change this, but I used to be really good at telling people what it sounded really good to hear.And then when no one was around, I didn't follow through.

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So it's like, "Yeah, mom and dad, you caught me gambling again, but I'm gonna stop, like, for real this time." Six months go by, and I just go back to it.

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Or, "I'm gonna lose the weight this time for real," and then I binge eat. Or- Mm... "Hey, I'm gonna start saving and not spend like an idiot," and then spend like an idiot.

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So this all stems through, and I've learned this through a lot of, like, deep inner work, therapy, childhood stuff. You know, my parents got divorced at a very young age when I was seven.

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Um, my biological dad's not in the picture anymore.

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I was raised by my stepfather, who I consider my, my real dad, and I'm so blessed and lucky to have him, but when you're seven years old and you're being raised by your mom who's struggling to get by, um, who...

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and you're going to an after school program, you kind of feel, like, left alone and abandoned, and you have to, like, survive on your own.

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And I think a lot of that feeling not good enough, uh, insecurity, uh, looking for, for stability and control manifested in my adult life. When you're spending and you're gambling and you're eating,

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for me, it was like my safe space. I felt in control. It was like my escape. And so, you know, for me, like, those were the things that I escaped to. Like, those were the things I would do when no one was looking.

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And so getting back to the specific question, I would work out really hard, and then I would just eat a shit ton of calories, and I knew that was wrong.

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And so, like, after you eat all those calories, you're like, "What am I doing?" Like, this is so misaligned to what I'm saying I wanna do and what's important.

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And so through all these, like, different pursuits and challenges that I've overcome, I've just got, like, this unique perspective on, like, what it takes to be successful in life and, you know, I see things online and people just, like, screwing themselves over, and I'm like, "Man, if I can only talk to this person and tell them, like,

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you just have to do the thing for enough days in a row, and you'll get there." And a lot of times I have to, like, continue to prove that point to myself, and this last- Yeah...

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six months have, have, you know, been a, a testament to that. Yeah. If I can- Absolutely... double click on something you said.

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Uh, first all, first of all, i- it's, it's awesome how vulnerable you are about a lot of that. It's hard to share some of that stuff. Yeah. Uh, it, it seems- Yeah...

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like it's maybe not so hard for you to share, and maybe it's from just years of being open about it and talking to people, or maybe you're just more naturally good at sharing stuff like that.

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But a lot of our listeners and primarily just male figures- Yeah... it's hard to get open like that. Dude, we- I mean, I think the three of us can agree- We act like we're too tough. Yeah. Yeah.

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I mean, especially the 30-somethings, you know, in the '90s when you're a kid and a male, again, general brushstroke here- Yeah. Yeah, yeah...

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but you're mostly just told and taught, uh, "Yo, don't cry, don't feel, don't show your emotions. Like, be tough." That's, that's what...

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And, you know, we can call it toxic mac- masculinity, whatever you wanna call it now, but it's just, like, very refreshing, and that's the vibe that To- uh, Troy and I already try to do when it's just the two of us.

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But just to, to hear you kinda share about yourself, one, appreciate that. Two, I wanted to double click on... Y- you mentioned gambling addiction, and I wanted you to share what that means.

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Like, what is a gambling addiction? When you use that term, what are you talking about? Yeah. Gambling addiction, how I define it is, like, the compulsive,

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uh, sports betting, uh, online casinos, in-person casinos, and it's this idea that, like, you legitimately can't stop, and it has, like, this control over you. And I'll give you an example.

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You know, the normal person that doesn't have a gambling addiction may be able to put 50 bucks on a game, um, and lose it and be okay with it. For me, 50 bucks, like, that doesn't scratch the itch.

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I need, like, a $1,000 16 parlay that's gonna win me $15,000. Like, that's to the point where I got to. I was risking $1,000 on things that I knew were gonna lose, but, like, I needed that dopamine, that rush.

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And gambling addiction also manifests when you lose money from gambling.

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Let's just say, for me, for example, I got into $30,000 of credit card debt and owed, like, six figures, uh, to, like, bookies, and I had two personal loans. My way, uh, out of that, I thought, was by gambling more.

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So I thought that I can beat the gambling losses by gambling, and that is, like, the pure definition of gambling addiction is the obsessive, compulsive, insane, log- like, logical steps you try to take yourself through to be like, "All right, I don't need to tell anyone about this because if I could just hit this bet, all my problems go away."

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Yeah. Or it's like, you know, you're winning the bet, and you're, like, thinking of all the things you're gonna do with the money, and you're, like, this fa... They talk about the dream and the fantasy land. Yeah.

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And you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna go on this vacation. I'm gonna buy this watch." And then the upset at the end happens, and you're like, "I don't have the money to pay."

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And the thing about gambling addiction and what makes it so tragic, it's not like alcohol or drugs where you can physically see it.

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And so for me, it had to get worse before it got better to where I hit a rock bottom, um, until I got help.

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Because you can go, you can take out the personal loans, you take out the credit card debt, and you're like, "Man, if I can only hit it big, I can erase all these losses, and I don't have to tell anyone about it."

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And that's why it gets really, really bad, and that's why it's the, the highest suicide rate for any addiction right now. Holy cow. I did not know that. Yeah, I didn't know that. Oh, my goodness. Jeez.

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Um, especially with finances, when they're involved, it's, it's really bad. Like, I, I've met people- Yeah... through the 12-step program that are 60 years old crying that they had to...

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They lost their family, they lost their kids because they gambled the kids' college tuition away, or they gambled the mortgage away. Like, shit is serious when you're talking about finances.

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And then people start to lie, steal, and cheat to figure out ways to pay their gambling debts, and then they turn to alcohol and drugs, and they either are...

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committing suicide or they're ending up in jail if they don't get help. So it's one of those things where because you can like get by with it until it's too late, people end up letting it go until it's too late.

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Take us back.

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Tell m- tell us kinda how your life turned into that, and then after that, tell us kinda how you got to where you are now, you know, with a fiance and a great stable job and even the ability to look back and talk with confidence about someone who you were but aren't anymore.

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I'd love to hear kind of the whole story. Yeah. So sports gambling in New Jersey, where I was from, like upper middle class, suburban area, super popular from like middle school.

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So I had been sports gambling, playing like blackjack, all that stuff. My big thing was like sports, sports betting though.

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We used to do it through, uh, texts in class, and you'd see the kid the next day or whatever and pay.

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And then the online, illegal online sportsbooks would come, and you'd have an account with credit, and that's when it started getting really bad. I learned that you could bet with money that you didn't have.

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So like someone would give you two thousand dollars worth of credit, and it's like, "Wow, if I could, I could take this money that's not mine and, and bet it, like what's the repercussion?"

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And then I remember I went up like... This was probably my junior, sophomore or junior year. I went up like two thousand dollars on the online casino. I was playing like roulette or something.

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I remember I was up like three grand. The kid was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna drop the money off to you tomorrow." Of course, I went back, and I lost it all.

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I ended up-- And I was working at like Best Buy at the time, and I had like two thousand dollars saved up. And the kid was like, "I have to, like I have to talk to your parents, like you owe, owe me money.

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Like I can't just let this slide." That was like my parents' first introduction to like my issue, um, and my first introduction into like the slippery slope that is, that is gambling. And so like I paid that.

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I obviously like continued to do it behind my parents' back and like figured it out. Then I got into college, um, got myself into more trouble.

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I actually was like a bookie for a long time, um, in college, and then when I graduated and moved to San Francisco, I started making my own money, and that's when it got really bad.

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I was working in the mortgage industry at the time. My first salary was forty-two K.

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And to give you perspective, that forty-two K allowed me to live in an apartment where we turned like a one bedroom into a three bedroom.

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I think like nine months into my mortgage career, I got promoted into like account executive, where I was actually getting, getting commission.

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I made like two hundred K like my s- first year and a half out of college, and I gambled it all away because I was like- Right... "Oh, I, I have money now." Like, "Oh, I can afford to like gamble." It was crazy thinking.

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It's like- Right... instead of saving that money...

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Um, and I remember g-getting so bad that I had, I had a, um, a financial advisor at the time, and I was saving money, and I remember being on a trip to Me- uh, to Mexico with my ex-girlfriend, and I remember calling while I was in Mexico.

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I was like, "I need five thousand dollars out of my account." And I was like paying down credit cards and gambling, and I was just like a complete chaotic mess. I was just living in this fantasy land. Um,

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and correlation between that relationship and my gambling, um, I got out of that relationship. It was a really horrible, toxic ending.

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It was like my first love, first heartbreak, getting my heart, heart broken for the first time, and I was twenty-five. Um, so that was 2000... end of 2017 into 2018. And from 2018 to 2020,

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after that breakup, I was living in San Francisco, had the cool tech job, had all the friends. Um, everything on the outside w- seemed like going really well. However, I was like partying three nights a week. Mm.

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Drugs, alcohol, gambling, overeating. I gained sixty pounds. I got myself into six figures worth of debt. Um,

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life of the party, but really just overcompensating 'cause I felt like a loser, and I was super insecure, and I needed validation from everyone. Mm. And then, um, summer of 2019 rolls around.

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We're back in New York for an offsite, and I visit my parents. My clothes don't fit. Like size thirty-six jeans like just won't close, and I basically cry. Like my mom doesn't know about the gambling.

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She thought I stopped like a year before. They like bailed me out a little bit. Um, and I sat there and like cried. I was like, "I can't..." I was like a, I was like a, a balloon. Like it was horrible. Like I'm not...

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I'm five eight, so like two hundred and fifty pounds, five eight, like I now have some muscle mass, but it wa- I wasn't working out. So like, um, everything added up, piled up.

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A few months go by after that, uh, meeting with my parents, November 2019, um, I'm in like so much shit with gambling. Like owe so many people money.

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I remember just being there like Thanksgiving break, uh, back home for, from San Francisco hammered. Like on... Uh, DraftKings had just become legal in New Jersey. I was throwing in like crazy bets.

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I was just like, I had the fuck its. I was like, "Fuck it. It can't get any worse." Get a bang on my door the next morning. My flight's supposed to be at like six PM. My mom was connected to my bank account.

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For whatever reason, I thought she wasn't gonna see it. I thought she would like not connect it to. She brings me downstairs and basically says, "You know, you've got..." She was first...

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She's from Brooklyn, short Italian lady, like- [chuckles]... don't mess with her type of deal. Sure. And she gave me an earful and basically gave me an ultimatum. She said, "You're going to the airport right now.

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You're gonna get on that plane. Either you go in Gamblers Anonymous and get yourself help, or you're no longer allowed in this family, and we won't be seeing you for Christmas."

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And so there I was, neck-deep in debt, sixty pounds overweight, living paycheck to paycheck, owing bookies, people that you don't wanna owe money to, having creditors call me, chase, threatening me, and

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I sat at the airport for twelve hours-And I really thought to myself like, "Can I figure this out?" Like how-- a-and how the hell am I gonna do this? It literally felt like I had Mount Everest to climb.

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Like how was I gonna earn-- Like, I just broke my mom's heart, who I'm the closest with. Mm. I have so much debt to pay down. I suck at sales at this point 'cause it's my first year as an AE in SaaS,

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and this is December first, twenty nineteen. I get back, and it's really like two choices. Do I go throw myself off the, the Golden Gate Bridge and like end it, or do I like give myself a different path?

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And I say throw myself off the Golden Gate dri-- uh, Bridge, like figuratively because that's the path I was heading down if I continued. Sure. 'Cause I had those thoughts that day because I didn't see- Mm...

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a path forward. And then- Yeah, yeah... I decided to enroll into Gamblers Anonymous, and I, I never looked back, and that started down the path of this, this recovery.

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Um, and I'll stop there, but I'll, I'll kind of like close the loop a little bit and make the parallel with sales. Two weeks after I get back from San Francisco, it's the end of quarter, my first ever Q-four.

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If this isn't like a sign from the universe that like things were just like getting worse before they got better.

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I had three deals, and that commission check was supposed to like help me out a ton to get out of the debt. All three deals closed, lost, push- Mm... competitors.

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And I remember texting my mom and my dad because they were happy. They were talking to me again 'cause I took the step to get help, and I was just like, "Guys, I can't catch a break. Like, like this is horrible."

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And I still have the texts, and I look at that like every couple of months just to remind myself of the pain. And then three months later, closed my first ever six-figure deal.

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Um, I, I got ninety days clean from gambling. Um, then the pandemic hit, and I moved back home, which is the best thing that ever happened.

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Um, and that's when I started losing all the weight, started reading all the books, started doing therapy, and I started learning about myself for the first time,

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my childhood, wh-why did I gamble, why did I overeat, like what were the things driving this. And that's, you know, the last six years, that's been like my work, um, and how I've gotten to this point.

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So I know I rambled a bit there- No, no, no... but that's the, uh, that's the story. Yeah, no- Brother... dude. That's crazy. First and foremost, I'm proud of you. Like a lot of people- Thank you...

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can't find their way out. And are you gamble free from twenty nineteen and beyond? Like has it been six years, whatever, whatever it's been? It'll be s- it'll be six years dif- December first. Yep. Geez. Wow.

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Well, good for you. Good for you. It's the only reason- And then your... Go ahead... yeah. I was gonna say- The-... it's the only reason I-I'm, I'm here today is because I'm not gambling.

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And it's, it's not the gambling itself. It's just like the new identity that I've formed. Like that's not me- Yeah... anymore, right? Like I'm not that- Yeah... I'm not that person who I used to be. Yeah.

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But it's so familiar to me- Yeah... um, that I keep it close because it's a good reminder to never go back to that. Yeah. Yeah.

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Did your, um, now fiancée, soon to be wife, did she know you during this time, or was this after all, all that? Yeah. So we met twenty twenty-one. So I was two- Okay...

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and a half-ish years into like my recovery, and I lost all the weight. I had the, the debt paid off. I f- had my own apartment, um, right outside of New York City.

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And so like I finally was like ready to accept good into my life. Like I, I finally wasn't overcompensating and looking for people's validation.

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Like I finally was okay with who I was, and that is the only reason I found her.

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Like, the fact that I did all the work on myself, like I truly believe when people say like, "When you're ready, you're ready," or like, "When you know, you'll know," like she came into my life at the perfect time.

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Um, and she knows all like this context, of course, but she had been through similar like relationship challenges and, and she had lost, you know, um, her mom a couple years ago.

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So she had like gone through a lot of similar parallels in life, and we both did a ton of work on ourselves, and it was just, you know, it was just like meant to be.

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And when I, when I saw her for the first time, met on dating app, like it was, it was, it was meant to be. Dude. I feel like I've known you for years after hearing that story.

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Go ahead and try it and let us know what you think. You said you were rambling. I think you're actually a very good storytellerI'm just listening, very engaged. Um, again, I, I do really appreciate you going down that.

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You know, my-- We're all familiar with, like, Kalshi, Polymarket. Like, gambling is so prominent.

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I saw people placing bets on whether or not a meteor was going to crash into the moon and, like, destroy the world in twenty thirty-two or something. Yeah. And like,

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like it doesn't, it, uh, it doesn't even compute to me why someone would place a bet on something like that. But people are doing it, and I think...

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So my, my parallel to this is I've been alcohol-free now for over a year, and I chose to do that for health reasons that were really scaring me. You know, my dad had three heart attacks. I was gaining a bunch of weight.

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I was super out of shape. And so I just cut out a bunch of stuff, including alcohol. And after ninety days, I was like, "Well, let me go a year." After a year, I said, "Well, I have just no reason to bring this back."

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And the longer I'm away from drinking alcohol, and I'm still like, I'll, I'll go out with friends and just get like an NA beer, you know, a sparkling water or whatever.

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I, I realized, like, more people rely on the drink than they think they're relying on the drink.

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It's, it's like, "I'm not an alcoholic," you know, but, but it's like, well, dude, you're on your, you're on your fifth drink, you know?

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It's like, n- and I'm not going around being like, "You are an alcoholic," that's not my vibe at all. But like, it's, it's so much clearer when you're out of the picture how destructive that can be to someone's life.

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And I imagine the same for you, you know, like gambling, whether it's like betting or, uh, even just like hitting up a casino and playing blackjack or whatever, poker.

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Like, there's so many forms of gambling, sports betting, there's Polymarket, everything like that. It's like, yeah, there's the casual gambler, but like, like is there? Like, to your point, like, you get...

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Y-you're, you're playing with fire, right? It's like you might win some money, but the detriment of losing those bets, you can only take so much, I think anyone.

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I, I think anyone can only take so much before they start to cross the line of what's healthy and that turns into kind of a story like what you described. So I'm just... You know, I, I have so many questions. Uh.

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[laughs] I, I don't, I don't wanna derail us, but I'm like, what would you tell yourself if you were to go back in time? You know, like go back in time- Yeah... ten years.

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Like, what do you tell Anthony who's, you know, twenty-two years old, maybe a little bit further back.

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I'm not sure when this all started, but like, what do you tell him before he goes down that road so that he can maybe make some better decisions?

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Yeah, I think it's how I, uh, I view myself now is like, I'm-- I f- I think once I finally accepted my, like, character defects, that is when I was able to, like, m- actually move forward to make the change.

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I think a lot of people live in denial of like, "Oh, it's not that big of a deal," but they don't realize the, like, the ripple effects and big impacts it, it makes on the people around you. Like,

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I realized that I was so needy for attention from my siblings and my parents because I just, like, didn't... It all stemmed from a place of not feeling good enough.

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That wasn't true, but I thought it was true because I didn't let go and come to terms of, with that childhood trauma that I faced. Um, and once I, once I did, I was able to realize like, "Hey, you are good enough.

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You don't need to do these things. Like, you don't actually need anything to feel good. It's within you." I think my biggest message to young, younger Anthony, which I, like, try to remember all the time, is like,

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"You are enough. You don't need the, the relationship to make you feel good. You don't need the money, the, the promotion. Like, you are good enough." And I think

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for someone that hasn't been through what I've been through, like, maybe that doesn't resonate.

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But because of the adversity and challenges, and I've seen how bad life could be, the fact that my life isn't that way anymore, it feels like I've won. Like- Yeah... it feels like I've won at life.

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Like, regardless of my bank account status, regardless of my job title, the fact that I have a, a perspective on life where I can truly enjoy it, where I know my core values, where I'm so...

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I s- I so believe in who I am and, like, what I care about. That to me is, like, what defines a rich, wealthy life. You know? Mm-hmm. You see all these people, like,

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on Instagram and X posting their Stripe accounts or the next car. It's, like, cool, but, like, how much do you see your-- How, how many times do you see your parents? Like- Mm.

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Like, what do you do when no one's watching? Like, how do you actually feel about yourself? A lot of people let the external materialistic things define themselves, and I think... Of course, I like nice things.

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Like, I want a nice watch. I want a nice car. But I don't need those things anymore to l- make me feel good about myself. Mm. And I think that has been the biggest win, and I wish I could go back and tell him that.

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Like, you don't need to be invited everywhere. Like, just because someone doesn't invite you doesn't mean they don't like you, or just because you get passed up on the promotion doesn't mean you suck or whatever.

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So that would be my advice. Um, and I wish, I wish everyone realized that.

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And I almost wish mo- more people went through really hard shit because you then realize, like, what actually matters in this life isn't the cars, the money, the clothes, the job. It's how do you show up?

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Who do you spend your time with? What are your core values? Do you live in alignment with those core values? Um, are you happy and peaceful between the years when you wake up?

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I think that, to me, I wouldn't trade that for the world.

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Like, you can tell me I'm gonna win a million dollar bet or have this, like, I'm taking the, the inner peace all day long, 'cause I know I'm gonna lose the money anyway. Yeah.

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That, uh-- I mean, that's, it, the story in itself is, is inspiring, and I feel like whether it's gambling, alcohol, maybe it's just, like, insecurity, it could be anything, right?

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Like, people out there that are struggling. I feel like while you say it might not resonate with a lot of people, it probably does, but in many different ways.

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Um, but to, to pivot the conversation a little bit away from, like, gambling and addiction and things like that, you're, you're pretty well known in the LinkedIn world.

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I think you've, you've got over fifty-three thousand followers. You've gotten Natoli's Nuggets, all that fun stuff. Um-What I wanna know is, first, Natoli's Nuggets. I know what it is. Listeners may not.

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If you're in sales, this probably is somewhat relevant to you. Give us a little-- give us your elevator pitch on Natoli's Nuggets. Yeah. It's, it's pretty simple.

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I like to share content that helps salespeople build, close more pipeline, all the sales tactics, but I also wanna help people not burn out while doing it. I want them to feel good mentally.

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And I think the best part that separates me from maybe someone that's not currently doing the thing or is so far removed or re-regurgitates other people's content is like, it's all based on, like, my life experience.

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So like, I have the chops

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to be able to talk about mindset 'cause I've been there, and I think that's what separates me from the guru who writes the next best self-help book that's just repeating quotes and, and things like that.

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That is where I try to stem everything, and that's why I think, like, the nuggets, if you will, that I share, they're all based on, like, things that I've actually lived or I'm trying or do, not based on, like, theory.

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So that's what Natoli's Nuggets is about. Um, just trying to, like, teach people based on my learned experience. Yeah.

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Yeah, if you're in sales, you're looking to get in sales or anything like that, highly suggest following Anthony or even just looking at some of his content if you're not a big LinkedIn person 'cause it'll help you either get a job or excel in your job if you are in sales, at BDR, et cetera.

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So you went from six figures in debt, you know, five, six years ago. Now you're a s- uh, is it a senior enterprise AE at LinkedIn or an enterprise AE? I don't know how they structure them there. Yeah, mor-more or less.

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Okay. Sweet. So we'll just call it that. What do you ultimately wanna do? What's the goal? Yeah. My north star is opening up a dog farm where I rescue a bunch of dogs and have a coffee shop and have a gym there.

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Like, that is my north star with what I'd like to do. Wow. I don't wanna be in sales forever. I think anyone that says they do is probably lying, but maybe I'm wrong. Um,

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I think ultimately there is something bigger that I feel called to do, and it has to do with helping people based on what I've been through. That--

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I'm not gonna get too into the, the twelve-step program, but the last step of the twelve-step program is, like, basically continuing to help others based on what you've learned.

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And I think that principle in general makes the world a better place. If you can help other people based on what you've been through, like, that's a huge win.

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So like Daniel, if it's for you helping people get into running or lose weight, Troy, if it's for you helping other entrepreneurs, like, we could all help other people based on what we've learned.

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I think I've been through so much stuff that I would be doing myself and the world a disservice by trying not to do something with that.

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And the reason, going back to why, you know, hey, you're so vulnerable and confident talking about this, like, this is my gift. Like, for whatever reason,

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God, the universe, put me through what I've been put through so that I can help other people. Like, I truly believe that.

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Obviously, at the time, I didn't believe that, but now coming out of it, like, I need to do something with this information that's in my head. So whatever that is, if it's speaking, if it's a book, if it's coaching,

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I think ultimately that's my, that's my thing that I wanna do. I love that. I think I-I-I'm inspired, and I resonate with a lot of what you're saying. I, I, I...

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Very different reasons, but I had a very challenging twenty years of life as well, and I have, I think, seasons where I feel that responsibility of like, oh, I, like, I'd be doing myself s- myself a disservice by not passing this on to someone.

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But to be honest, and shame on me, but, like, I, I get so distracted.

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I'm like, man, you know, like, work and being a dad to two little ones and being a husband and involved in the community and side hustles, and it's like, like, when?

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And, you know, I think that's a, it's a valid excuse on the surface, but really when you put things into perspective, like what you've been doing, it's like, what else actually matters if not that?

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And I think I, you know, I have a degree in history.

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Don't ever spend a hundred and fifty grand on a degree in history, but if you happen to find yourself in the same shoes as me and did anyways, what I know about history is that before there was distribution, like podcasts and internet and email and all that stuff, people did what you're describing just to distribute everything, information and passing on values and culture and books and, like...

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Well, obviously books was one of the ways you distribute, but even before books, it was literally everything was word of mouth.

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And if you were rich enough to have access to some type of writing or scroll or tablet, depending on what period of history, like, that was not, not, not everyone went to their bookshelf and picked up a, you know, self-help book.

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It was like, no, that guy down the street has the, the book. [chuckles] And, uh, we all need to kinda listen to them read it out loud.

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I might not even be literate, so I literally have to listen to someone else read it to me. And I think we've lost that because of how easy it is to access information.

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Like, why would I go help person X if they can just ask ChatGPT what the answer is? And, and we start to convince ourselves like, well, there's not as much value as, as there used to be.

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But I think what you're saying, and w- I agree, is actually there's still the same amount of value.

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Darren McKee talked a bit about the value of person-to-person relationships moving forward as AI starts to basically envelop everything.

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And I think that applies here, is like, is the skill that comes from bringing people together in real life to pass information and share ideas and cry on a shoulder.

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Like, what scares me, I think, in this new world that we're ushering in is in your story, you mentioned a number of times, like the guy in a Gambling Anonymous that was sixty who was crying about, you know, losing his house and you crying on your mom's shoulder.

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And like, Troy and I both have different stories we could share about how we were just brought to our knees crying about something, you know, parenting, health, everything in between.Wh- where, what, what's, where's the space for that when AI takes over everything?

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Y- there isn't. E- everyone's gonna start being isolated and relying on technology, but s- w- whose shoulder are you gonna cry on when it's time to actually be vulnerable and let, let loose?

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Man, I, I think everything you're saying is just reaffirming how important those human-to-human interactions are gonna be moving forward. Yeah.

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And one thing you said, Daniel, which is what I struggle with too, and I'm wondering, Anthony, you mentioned, like, you think that you have a real purpose, and it's to help people go through essentially what you have gone through.

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Daniel said something that I feel like I fall into this trap all the time, and it's like, where do you find the time? I'm so busy.

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How am I supposed to go help somebody with, you know, their problems that they're dealing with? Or how am I supposed to help really anybody? I'm trying to help myself over here. I'm trying to go on a run.

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I'm trying to work. I'm trying to, you know, please the fiance. We're trying to go on dates together.

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Like, are you, are you able to find the time, or is that also something where you're like, "Dang, I wish I had more time to help people," or, or where are you in that? Yeah.

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I struggle too, man, because I've got this job that I need to perform in because I've got shit to pay for.

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Like, at the end of the day, I think we're human, and I think there's also a parallel with this idea of being present with where you are but also knowing, like, life is busy.

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And so it's this balance of like, I wanna chase my best version, but also sometimes I only have time to, like, eat this sh- this, like, snack that's probably not the best for me, or like, you both have kids, and like, that is probably r- extremely difficult, and it's hard to find the time.

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So I think there's a balance of, like, this idea of taking personal inventory every day and just, like, checking yourself of like, "Hey, where can I find the time today to make sure that I'm making the space?"

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And it doesn't have to be, like, a huge rock that you move every day, but can I move in the direction, even if it's an inch, closer who- to who I ultimately wanna be? And so I go outside of my-- on my, uh, my

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balcony in my apartment every morning, and I just, like, kinda think about, like, the day ahead. I got all this stuff to do that's probably gonna take a lot of brain power.

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Like, what's the thing that I could do to move myself closer to, like, who I wanna be, who I'm not yet?

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'Cause a lot of people get stuck in chasing who they wanna be or what they wanna do ultimately, and they're not able to be present with where they are, and I, I run into that all the time.

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It's like, "When I get, when I get to the weight goal, I'll be happy finally." It's like, "Well, why can't I just be happy now?" Or- Yeah...

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when I get to a point where I finally quit my job and I'm helping people full time, I'll be happy. Well, it's like, why can't I do both?

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So I think it's just accepting that it's okay to be busy with the, the busyness of life, um, while also figuring out a way to take those small steps forward.

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I also think it's, like, impossible to do full ti- like, if I were to launch a full-time coaching business or community, I couldn't do both LinkedIn and that thing 100%.

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So figuring out ways to, like, like, through my, my content scratches that itch for now, but one day it may not be enough.

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I may need to, like, take that leap, but I gotta make sure that I'm- I've got the money in the bank to be able to do that and all, all of that.

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So I think it's something that I struggle with, and it's cliché, but it's, like, finding the, the balance and really being in touch with, like,

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your, like, taking inventory and journaling on, like, where you're at, what you gotta do today. Like, is there a, is there a time? If there's not time, can I make the time this week? Um- Yeah... it's hard.

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It's the- Yeah... it's the question everyone's trying to answer, and that's why influencer content is so unrelatable to me.

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When you see the guy that's running 20 miles on a Wednesday, it's like, "Dude, you better be running 20 miles in shape like you are." That's all, all you have to do is run 20 miles. Like win. And like- Yeah.

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Like 20 miles-- first of all, 20 miles would take me four and a half hours. So like- Yeah. And it's-... yeah, when am I gonna do that?

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[laughs] Like, I see some of these guys like Alex Hormozi, and this is not a shot at any of those guys 'cause they're way more successful, like, monetarily than me.

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Like, Salil Bloom, like, all they do is have time to create content and spend time with their kids, and so they're talking about these principles that they want you to live.

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However, they're able to do it because they don't have the busyness of life, or maybe that we do, and I'm not saying that they don't deal with problems. I think we just need more people like us, and you have the podcast.

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People that are, like, normal people that aren't these, like, influencers that are spending all this time doing those things and talking about it more because

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there just seems to be such a disconnect, and people then think they suck if they're not living up to this expectation that this influencer is saying, and I think it's just a really slippery slope. Yeah. It is. Yeah.

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It is. It is. I think content creation is, in a way, addicting because you, you get that- That dopamine... you get that feeling. When something's somewhat viral, you're like ooh. Ooh, I got a million views on this.

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Like, how do I- Yeah... get that to happen again? Yeah. Yeah. It is. It's bad. I do think it creates a, a whole... I mean, it's-- my, my wife keeps me very well grounded because...

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and I- [laughs] All you talk about is how big of a content creator you are. [laughs] There's so much- She's like, "Dude." There's so much... No. No, no, no.

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Look, look, there's so much irony in what I'm about to say because I realize how often I am in my own universe, in my own bubble, when my wife doesn't have any idea what I'm talking about, and she's, like, a very normal user of social content and of social platforms.

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But I woke up this morning. I am a moron. I said, "There's nothing like a jet to holiday," right? Yeah. It's a stupid viral TikTok thing, and she's like, "What?" Dude, I say that all day every day.

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[laughs] And I was like, "Oh, geez." So then what I did, I made a TikTok about how I did that, and that TikTok is probably gonna get 50 likes 'cause I'm no one on TikTok.

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But I'm like, I literally hate myself [laughs] like, in that moment. Like, I'm like, ew. Like, I, like... And so she just reminds me, like, the bubble I live in. I'm like, "Hey, babe, did you see that meme?"

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She's like, "No. I don't even know which one you're talking about yet, but no, I know I didn't," because I'm so-I'm so plugged in. And so the,

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you know, what does perfect look like to me is, is being able to unplug and just never- Yeah... plug back in again. I'm like, I would... I, I started vibe coding an app. I talked to Troy about this last week.

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Um, I spent like max four hours on this, so like who knows if it'll ever go anywhere. But it's an app that gamifies unplugging.

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It's called Offline, and people compete with each other about how long they can disconnect from technology, and basically that's it. It's a timer. It's a leaderboard. There's some challenges. Um, but that's all it is.

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It is functional, but I'm like, who knows if I'm ever gonna do anything with it? But it was... it scratched an itch for me where I'm like, is there any way I can use technology, ironically, to- Sure...

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create a world where people use technology less? The answer is yes. Like, there has to be a way to encourage and, and really, uh, create these types of apps or communities or whatever it is. But I think you're right.

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We need more relatable people, and a lot of people are not relatable. A lot of people think they have to be not relatable to fit in to that influencer economy. It's like, just be yourself. I think that's my whole brand.

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People are... what... how do you, how do you do personal branding? I'm like, I have... one, I have no idea. Two, I don't ever schedule any posts I make, ever. I write them and then I post them.

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Sometimes it takes me five seconds, sometimes it takes me one, two minutes. My personal brand is I don't care. My personal brand- Right... is I literally- It's, it's so-...

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don't care about anything- All over the place... on any platform. Everywhere. On X- It comes through... on LinkedIn- Yeah... on TikTok, on Instagram. Like I... there's- Yeah...

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nothing I care about because I'm like, I know when I shut my laptop figuratively at the end of the day, like I have two kids who are amazing, I have a wife who loves me. And I, like, to your point, I won the lottery.

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[laughs] Like, like- Yeah, yeah... I have an amazing life. None of this matters. I want some of that to shine through in my content and Two Dads in Tech and, you know, in these spaces. Yeah. Yeah.

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I'm so addicted to my phone and social media. Me too. Oh, am I. I hate it. It's such a net, it's such a net negative, man.

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Like both of you, speaking to both of you, but Daniel, like specifically what you were saying, like when I delete apps off my phone, I can literally feel my brain shift to like, ah. Yeah. Like finally, it gave me a rest.

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The dope, it's the dopamine, man. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude. I've, I've deleted... I don't have Instagram, I don't have Snapchat. I deleted everything but TikTok. I love TikTok.

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I think it's the best app like ever created. Love TikTok, and then LinkedIn, of course. Um, which kind of back on that, that LinkedIn train. Anthony, you've got like a... your whole life is like LinkedIn right now.

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You work at LinkedIn. We can call you a LinkedIn content creator, LinkedIn influencer, whatever you wanna call it. Um, I got a question. How much, we asked KD this, Kevin Dorsey,

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how much money would it take for you to just completely get rid of your LinkedIn? You don't have the connections anymore, you have nothing like that. Briefcase full of cash, get off LinkedIn forever.

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Does this include- So like-... his job in this case? I know. I was gonna say it's different with you 'cause you work there. Um, it... you don't need to get rid of your job. Like that, just pretend it's a sales job.

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It could be a sales job anywhere, but like you do not have a following, and you can never have a LinkedIn again. How much money would you have to take?

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I think I'd be good with like a million, 'cause that'd allow me to get, get off the grid and go to my farm. Ooh, that farm. Love it. Daniel, KD said, what did he say? Seven? I don't know what we said.

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[laughs] I think, I think he said, I think KD said seven- He said seven... but like no hesitation. Yeah. Like, KD put so much thought before he a- We're like, "How much money?" "Seven million."

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He, I'm like, I didn't even ask the question yet. [laughs] What did you say, Troy? Yeah. You said, did you say five? I, I think I said like three or something. Three? I, I- Yeah, I think, I think a million because like

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ultimately, ultimately anything that I'm doing with my time, like I am expecting money, like, you know, in return. Like, I'm not gonna like- Right...

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of course, I wanna make the world a better place and all of that, but I still have like family to feed. You got a life, dude... other things I wanna do.

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So like, I think if you give me a million dollars, based on money that I have saved, I think I can like invest that smartly and then live pretty happily. Um, 'cause I've realized, like I don't need much to be happy.

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Like I need some good pasta, I need the beach, need my dogs. In that order. Need maybe, may- [laughs] Yeah. May- maybe the Jets to win a, a few more football games, but like- [laughs]...

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ultimately, ultimately like I don't need much. Um- Yeah... so yeah, mill- a million feels right. Nice. Nice. That's very cool. Before we, before we jump off, tell me about Stella's Sweets. Oh, Stella's Sweets.

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Uh, that is my fiance's business. She actually quit her corporate fashion job in uh, I think it was like January maybe.

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Um, we both realized that like we wanna have a family and don't wanna like necessarily hire help, because either way it's, there's gonna be a cost. Um- Yeah. Yeah, yeah...

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and she was miserable, like commuting into the city almost every day. S- not the safest place. I don't feel comfortable for her doing a 20-minute walk, uh, to the train and back, and she just wasn't happy.

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And so she's got this gift, and I'm very grateful to have the job that I do to where she was able to quit, and she was already doing it on the side, and she went full in on her baking business, and she does it out of our kitchen.

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She's kind of blowing up, and my mom actually does like charcuterie boards that you see on Instagram or whatever, and catering, um, for like special events.

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And so they kinda like work as a team, which makes me super happy, like they're super close through that. So yeah, we named it after our golden retriever, Stella.

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And yeah, Gianna used to bake with her mom all the time, and so it's a nice way for her to like carry on those recipes of her mom and her grandma.

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And her cookies, no, no, no, uh, shot at Crumbl, but like her cookies are 10 times better- Yeah, dude... 100 times better than Crumbl. No, no- I saw a picture of them... no additives.

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Can we just agree that Crumbl is kind of overrated? It's just a big cookie. Oh, it totally is. Like come on. To be honest, it's too mass-produced now. Crumbl- Yeah. Like, I don't know, maybe- So-...

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at one point Crumbl was good, but it's just mass-producedDude- Yeah... 34 pounds down and you probably have cookies in the kitchen all day, every day. Yeah. What... Dude, how? That's some self-control.

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I have the worst sweet tooth. Like, when I get, when I have my dinner and I'm, I'm done with dinner, I'm sitting down, I'm having a bowl of ice cream, a few Oreos. Like- [laughs]...

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I tell myself I work out in the morning. Every day? Yeah, literally every single day. I have a bowl of ice cream, Oreos. I probably have 500 calories of sweets before I go to bed. You suck.

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And so I tell myself I work out in the morning because I wanna eat sweets at night. Like, that's literally- Hey, whatever... whatever. Listen. [laughs] Um. Dude. Yeah, man. It's, it's really, really- It's-... hard.

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There, there... I haven't been perfect, and that's why, like, the scale goes like this. Yeah, yeah. And it- Of course... eventually goes down, but like sometimes I'll have a bite and then have to throw it away. Yeah.

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Yeah, see, I do that. If there's an extra for me. But she also doesn't make- It is so, so good. Yeah. There... I'll have to... I'll, I'll send you guys some. Um, figure out a way to get you guys some. Yeah, I'll pay you.

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I'll pay you. Yeah, just- You gotta support a small- You said-... support a small business. Yeah, yeah. I would, I would love, I would love some of that. You said you wanted to start a family.

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What kind of dad do you wanna be? Yeah.

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This, this one hits home because, um, my biological dad and I had a falling out my f- going to my sophomore year of college, and we haven't spoken since, and kind of like abandoned me. Um, and my stepdad, again, like,

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I wanna be exactly like him, just the way that he took... You know, treats me as his own son. I have two step-siblings, but I consider them my, like, real siblings.

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Like, we've all been together since I was 10, so it's been, you know, almost 20 years. I wanna be the dad that, like, my kid can count on, that keeps his promises, that he can see as a role model. Like,

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I want him to be able to point at me, or she, point at me and say, "That's my dad," and, like, be super fucking proud, and know that I'm never- Yeah...

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gonna leave them, and know that I'm always gonna have their back, and I'm gonna instill confidence in them from a young age. I'm never gonna, I'm never gonna to make them feel like they're not good enough. And, um,

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I think if I can do that, I'll leave them, as an adult who can operate in this world, like I may have not been able to because of those things. That's incredible. You're gonna be a great dad. Yeah. Yeah.

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And I kept saying- You're gonna be a great dad... he. I might be a little biased. I'm a boy, but whatever. [laughs] Uh, I'll be, I'll be, I'll be grateful with that, whatever the universe gives me, but, um- That's right.

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Yeah. Hey. I just want... Like, I'm so excited to be a dad. Like, you have no idea. I know it's gonna be really challenging, but, like- Yep. Yeah. Oh, yeah...

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I think I can use what I've learned to become a really good parent. You can. Yeah. We'll see. You can. And I'll need both of your advice and help as, as that- We're here... stage comes. We're here. Whenever. We're here.

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You're gonna crush it. Two boys. We both got two boys. You're gonna crush it. We- Yeah. Dude, mine are crazy. Mine are absolutely crazy. Um, you stopped recording it says. No. I- Never mind... I see it still going.

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Okay, never mind. And, and by the way, if you guys wanna keep rolling for a few, I'm, I'm good. I don't have a hard cut. But if you have any more questions. I'm happy to cut, though, too. You- No pressure.

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No, you're good. Daniel, you look l- it looks fine. It looks like it's still going, but I just got a pop-up that said Daniel Burke stopped recording. But you're good. It's still... Ugh. And now you're...

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[laughs] Well, who knows? Now it's gone. So my, mine's still saying stop. Uh, or am I still saying, like, stopped the recording and it's still going? I'm thinking he probably, uh, got disconnected, which...

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[laughs] All right. You good, dude? Weird. We can, uh- No... we can have our- It's still recording. It's still recording... I don't know what happened. We can have our team... Did it ever stop? Uh, I don't think so.

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I don't think so. No. Okay, cool. On, on my end it went through. Dude. Okay, awesome. Anthony, what's up with the LinkedIn algorithm? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. [laughs] Tell us exactly how to hack it. Tell me.

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I get, like... Everyone's coming at me. I'm like, "Dude, I get- I've noticed... 2,000 impressions." I'm like- Yeah.

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You mean you can't jump into your Microsoft Teams and just, like, @ the engineer that- Yeah, you know what? You know what?... is working on it and be like, "Yo, yo, yo, tell me exactly how to go viral right now."

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You would, you would- "Go pump my post." You would be shocked at the messages that I get from people. "Unlock my account." [laughs] "What? The sales and app team isn't answering me." I'm like- [laughs]...

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like, who do you think I am? Yeah. Like- [laughs] I just-... someone, someone today, Vin Matano, posted like, "LinkedIn didn't pay, pay me for this, uh, this, uh, content that they sent me," or whatever. It's packaged.

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Yeah. Saw that. Someone tagged me, and they're like, Anthony, "@AnthonyNatoli, pay the man." I'm like, "What... Who do you think I am?" [laughs] I'm just a salesclerk. It is hysterical. Dude.

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Uh, but it comes with the territory. Yeah. I try to pass all the feedback I can along. Yeah. It's- Better than TikTok with the anonymous cesspool of commenters. Dude.

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Dude, LinkedIn wouldn't last a day with TikTok's comments at all. Are you kidding me? [laughs] Dude. For real. Oh. For real. There's, there... I mean, I think- They're funny...

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the comments, the comments are, like, the funniest part, but, uh, yeah, LinkedIn, I think I, I screwed up.

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And last thing I'll say here, I think I screwed up and kind of put all my eggs in the LinkedIn basket, 'cause now I get frustrated when, you know, it doesn't perform, and, like, my business kind of also relies on LinkedIn, so it all just gets me frustrated, but...

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And I finally, I think I've disconnected. I'll post something and if it's, like, five likes, I'm like, "Screw it." Five likes, whatever. But anywho, we can wrap it up. Daniel, uh, you usually wrap us up.

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Do we need to do an ad read? No, we don't. Can you hear me? Yeah, you're on the wrong- 'Cause I think my- You're on the wrong mic... my device is jacked up. Yeah. You're on the... I'll, I'll close this out.

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Just cut this out. You do the- Yeah... you, you close this out, 'cause I think something jacked up over here. Yeah, you... Whatever. Um, awesome.

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Anthony, thank you so much for joining us, and then thanks for also being available like, like that. Like, it was a very spur of the moment. We're like, "Dude, let's get Anthony on. Like, we have no guests.

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We gotta record today. Let's see if he's available." So I appreciate you coming on, and honestly, your stories, you're an incredible storyteller. You should go tell stories. Tell stories on TikTok. Blow up on that.

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[laughs] I know. A lot of people on TikTok also dealing with gambling addictions. You know that. But yeah, thank you so much for joining us. I really do appreciate you, Johnny. Thanks, fellas. This was a blast.

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Um, yeah, thank you again- Yeah... for having me. Yeah, of course. And everybody, uh, Two Dads in Tech on all platforms. Twodadsintech.com. You can get merch. You can do challenges, all that fun stuff.

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We have it all set up. Two Dads in Tech. Uh, subscribe and rate us five stars, 'cause it helps us out a lot, so thank you so much. And, uh, we'll see you next week. Daniel, don't say anything. Your mic sucks right now.

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That's it. [laughs] See you soon