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Hey, listeners. Welcome back to another episode of Two Dads in Tech, where we talk about things that you think about but don't really talk about.

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I'm Troy Munsen, father of two, founder and CEO over at Demo, a place to evaluate software without jumping into a sales cycle.

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And I'm Daniel Burke, husband, dad to two incredible boys, sales leader, LinkedIn lunatic, and Beehive's newsletter evangelist. Thanks for tuning in. We hope you enjoy this episode.

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Daniel, how about you say we go ahead and get into it? Let's do it. Hey, man. Happy birthday. Hey, man. Ha- happy birthday. Actually, let me fix my camera. Happy birthday. Please do. Happy birthday. How's that?

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I was just about to comment. Yeah, I think it's... Ah, I'm a little... Whatever. I'm, I'm gonna figure this out and I think... How, how far are you from the mic right now? You want... That's, that's perfect.

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So we're gonna do ASMR that's in- Am I, am I too far or too close? Am I too far or too close? Can you hear me? That, that noise of you moving it- I know... was so- I have, like-... ridiculously loud.

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[laughs] I ha- [laughs] I have, like, a $1 boom mic stand. It's so bad. I need a, I need to get a new one. I need to get a new one, but whatever. I think you're good. Does this work? I think you're good.

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Here, let me, let me move it- Yeah... and not move it again. Oh. Dude, are you on a metal desk? No, it's just... I wish I could show you without messing up my camera. It's so bad. Yeah. It's so bad. Don't worry about it.

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All right. But is this, is this a good li- Is this a good distance? I think this is good. Uh, I can fix it anyways- Okay... regardless. Okay. So this is all right. Am I... Yeah, we're good. We're good.

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All right, I'm gonna put you on the hot seat right now, top of the episode. Would you ever consider leaving your job or your company for family?

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You give me a- an example and I'll, I'll, I'll- I will... tell you how I did. But give me a quick example. I will give you a quick example, and actually the reason I'm asking you this question.

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Tom Holland, of course, recently got engaged, which congratulations, Tom Holland. I know you're one of our- Congratulations... biggest fans of Two Dads in Tech. Two fans. Congratulations. He said,

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and I, and I don't think this is a pregnancy announcement, so that's not a rumor I'm starting. But he said one day when he becomes a dad, he will stop acting.

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Tom Holland, one of the biggest superstar actors in the planet right now, said that when he becomes a dad, he will stop acting. I thought that was shocking.

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I also thought, well, I have to talk about this in Two Dads in Tech. Yep. And what better way than to ask Troy, would you also stop acting for your family? Yeah. [laughs] Um, I mean,

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if I had all the money in the world, yeah, I'd stop my job. But let's... 'Cause what your question was is would you move, right, for family? Like, would you quit- Well, would you-... your job for family? Sure.

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Yeah, yeah. Okay. Not, not move specifically, although that might be related. But yeah, would you- Mm. Um, let's make it more practical. Yeah. Would you give up Demo? Would you- Yeah... would you dissolve Demo

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or hand- Yeah... the keys fully to another operator to be a better dad, a better husband, to be more present as a, as a family person, as a family man? The, the short answer is absolutely.

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There would have to be things in place from a legal perspective of like, hey, if this, if X, Y, Z happens with Demo,

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you know, then I get to reap the benefits, and I also would have to trust who I would be handing the keys to.

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So assuming all of those things are in place, and my wife was like, "By the way, Demo is completely ruining this family," and that you're sp- Mm... you know, spending no time with us or whatever it might be,

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I would, I would absolutely have to look at other avenues of how can I make Demo work where I'm less involved. So that's my answer. It's a good answer. I, I was wrestling with it myself as well.

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I think, uh, I had a conversation with my wife the other day.

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I can't remember what the, the, all the meat and potatoes of the conversation, but ultimately said something along the lines of, you know, "One day when we're rich and famous, I won't have to work as hard."

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I can't remember exactly how I phrased it, and she said something to the effect of, "I don't know that you'll be able to stop working so hard, because I think there's an aspect of building that you have to do for your own sanity."

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And I'm not gonna lie, I was a little ruffled by that. I was like, what? I, like, I would love nothing more than to sit on a beach, watch the waves, and turn my brain off forever. But

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couple days passed, my wife knows me really well, I think she's right. I think if push came to shove and what I was working on, building,

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uh, my day job, whatever it was, was taking the place of what my family really should have hold on in my heart, in my life, in my day to day, I think I'd have to give it up.

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I think that would be the, not only the right thing to do, which of course is an opinion, but I think the only logical thing to do as currently a dad and, and, and husband who prioritizes his family.

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I think I need to not just vocally prioritize them, but actually prioritize them. It would be hard, though. Yeah. Yeah, it would be hard, and my wife would say, she would say the same thing about me.

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I-I'm also obsessed and I feel like I'm going insane if I'm not trying to build something or create something, or maybe even a, a better word is accomplish something that's outside of my W-2.

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Um, and I don't know if we talked about this on one of our episodes yet, but, um, it's this whole idea be- behind feeling accomplished and feeling successful. Mm. So when I was a sales rep, I felt successful, and I was.

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Um, but I did not feel accomplished at all. And so- Mm... my goal is I want to go build a company and sell that company for a decent amount to where we could retire, but I- Mm...

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probably would not, because I'm the same way. I would go crazy just sitting there with nothing to do. Um, and to further answer your question, because I am the one that makes the money in the family,

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there would have to be another source of income where I could leave and quit Demo to then say, yeah, like, yeah, I'm leaving Demo behind. Family, I'm, I'm all about you now.

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We wouldn't be able to survive with, uh, without Demo right now, so there would have to be another source- No, yeah... of income that would make up for it. But yeah, I could do it.

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I could definitely do it, and I'd definitely... I, I would lo- Like, thinking about it kind of is like, ah, it hurts me 'cause I'm working my ass off, but yeah. I know, I know. No, I know. That's why I said the hot seat.

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You're... To, to those listening, Troy was unprepared because I did not give him any heads-up. I just figured I would put him on the seat. Um- Yeah... let's shift gears.

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There's another, there's another thread I wanna pull at, and we actually talked about this a few episodes ago.

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It was how SDRs, BDRs, whatever you wanna call them, will be affected by some of the tools that AI is creating currently, where even AI SDRs.

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And so I actually wanna read a post that Amit from Gong, the CEO and co-founder of Gong, wrote about AI cold calling, which is interesting coming from Amit because Gong uses so much AI in their tool.

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They're of course a unicorn, probably close to or if not a decacorn. I know at one point they were valued at, like, seven and a half billion dollars. You know, massive, massive startup, incredibly successful.

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But I wanna read this, and I wanna have your cold reaction to it because I also, to the listeners, did not tell Troy about this ahead of time. Amit's post says, "So, Amit, why is Gong building an AI SDR..."

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Sorry, "Why isn't Gong building an AI SDR to do outbound cold calling?" And he says, "I get this question all the time. Here's the deal. Outbound calling is hard for humans.

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Getting a stranger to stay on the phone is like a rodeo rider trying to stay on a raging bull. Every second is a battle to hold their attention before they throw you off. Now, imagine throwing AI into the mix.

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Mistakes will not only waste a good prospect, but will damage your brand. Right now, the LLM tech just isn't there yet to deliver consistent results.

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But here's what is possible today, and it's a game changer, an AI practice coach.

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This upcoming agent that we announced in November, Gong, will let sellers rehearse Q&A, get feedback, polish a pitch, and prep for meetings in a zero risk, judgment free zone.

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It builds confidence without the awkward learning moments in front of prospects. As the tech evolves, you can count on the Gong team," blah, blah, blah.

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And then they start to shill their own Gong product, which is really cool. But what's your, what's your reaction to Amit's statement? He says, "LLM tech just isn't there yet.

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It's gonna cause more problems and more damage than I think it will solve in the short term for AI cold calling."

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So I think it's actually illegal to use robocallers and have it fully AI automated, so I don't think it's even legal to do that. Um, I actually read that last week. So there's that that goes with it. Um,

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other than that, one thing that was mentioned, I don't know exactly how it was phrased there in that post, but it essentially said, you know, like, humans aren't even that great at cold calling.

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What makes you think AI would be good at cold calling? And then LLMs aren't there yet, and, you know, it would make mistakes, and they're not consistent. You could make the argument that neither are humans, right?

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They make a lot of mistakes. They're not consistent. But- I might make that argument... on the flip side, you can make sure, like, let's just hypothetically say it's not illegal, 'cause I, I don't know.

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I just read it, right? It's... I'm not gonna believe everything I read, but I read it last week. Sure. Let's, let's say it's not illegal. What AI robocallers, cold callers can do is hit a KPI. They'll dial all day- Mm...

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without a person behind there, right? They can... Sales reps, they hate cold calling for the most part. Almost every single one of them hates it.

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Um, I know that you called Grandma Doris the other day via a cold call, but, um, they- Very upset Grandma Doris... won't cold call. They won't complain about it. They'll hit their KPIs.

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They'll make their mistakes, but also that's why people train LLMs, so they can make less and less mistakes over time. So there is this weird thing where do I think it's there yet? Absolutely not. Do I think that

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it will damage your brand? Uh, do two things, AI SDR from an email perspective or from a cold call perspective, yes. But how is it any different than hiring an offshore outsourcing team or out- offshore outbound team?

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I don't know. I don't know how it's any different from a brand damage reputation, which many brands do. A lot of brands don't.

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But, um, there's a lot of fun things to be said and thrown into the fire here, but those are... that's, like, my overall thoughts. What are your thoughts? Yeah, yeah.

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We at Beehive, we just started using Nooks, and it's an amazing tool. Uh, shout out Nooks if you wanna sponsor- Love it... Two Dads in Tech. We are wide open in March, although not in February. Boom. Booked, baby.

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Let's go. Uh, but Nooks- Let's go. Oh, we're making moneyUh, Nooks is incredible. Nooks also raised a series B, uh, recently. They're, they're, they got, like, 40 million or something.

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Um, really, really cool tool, and as someone who hasn't cold called, like, in a- ages, uh, it was... I- it's really cool how far it's come. I mean, last time I cold called was with a phones.

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You pick up a phone, you press the numbers, and you call, and then you don't get an answer, and then you leave a voicemail, and you try again later.

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With Nooks, it's really cool, and it, it kind of brings AI to the human instead of replacing the human with AI. Mm.

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And so there's still the oversight and control and power and nuance that a real SDR or caller will give you, but,

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you know, they're using, I think, in a really safe, practical way, they're using some of this technology that AI is, is, is giving us right now. And, um, honestly, it's, it's...

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to me, if you're a founder or you're a builder, you're working tech in 2025, and you're not actu- actually using AI in some way, you are gonna get left behind. Yeah.

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I don't think you should replace your entire workflow with AI. You can replace bits and pieces. Honestly, you can.

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But I think Nooks is a really cool example of the two things coming together for, like, a very effective workflow. Yeah. Yeah, I think,

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I think leveraging AI for sellers, BDRs, SDRs, to arm them like Nooks does, and I know other dialers do it as well, where it's like it'll do the research beforehand for you as you're dialing through the list, so when somebody picks up, you automatically know about that person, about that company, 'cause the information is right there in front of you, which is incredible.

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Like, that's... If you can be relevant when somebody picks up the phone, like Grandma Doris, that's amazing. Um, but I, I do agree. Yeah.

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If you're not using it at some capacity, I'd say, I don't know, this year, if, if [laughs] if not this year, definitely next year, you will, in my opinion, be, be left in the dust.

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But I'm gonna segue from this AI, SDR conversation real quickly- Yeah... because it's on top of my mind, and I know I'll forget it if I don't ask. Oh, congrats, by the way, on your viral post last week.

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I for- I have to say that. Thank you. Pretty cool, right? Yeah. I- Yeah. Big time... it's actually the most viral post I've had on LinkedIn. Yeah. Uh- It was big... by- It was huge...

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quite a, quite an order of magnitude, yeah. Yeah. [laughs] It was good. Anyways, what I was gonna say is what is the dumbest or most clickbaity thing that you have bought from a social media ad?

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That I personally has, have purchased? Yeah, you know, the Shop Nows on Instagram or the TikTok shop or anything like that. Oh, man. Maybe you don't do it. Oh, man, this is embarrassing. No, this isn't me.

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Oh, no, no, no. Oh, yeah. Don't, don't make conclusions. Let's, let's hear it, baby. There's...

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[laughs] For anyone using TikTok, I guarant- ee, I guarantee this has happened to you at some point, where you see this stupid video of someone cleaning a bathroom with this stupid electric brush, but it's like the entire bathroom, like every inch of the bathroom is covered in suds.

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And it's like this, like, shocking video that you just have to watch, 'cause you're like, "What am I watching?"

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And there's this person cleaning with this electric brush, like, behind the toilet and in the sink and, like, the floor and everything, just suds everywhere. Mm-hmm. I bought that dumb electric brush from Temu. God.

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[laughs] And let me tell you, I will never buy anything off of Temu ever again. It was like $7, and good grief, it was not even worth $7. [laughs] I used it once.

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The power of this brush, like, I could have with one finger put more power on this brush than the actual- Yeah... motor did for me. Total gimmick. [laughs] Total gimmick.

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But I saw this dumb video on TikTok, like, probably dozens of times over months, and eventually I was like, "It would be nice to be able to clean my bathroom like that," [laughs] so I bought it. Oh, man. Uh. It's bad.

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Dude, I will say- It was... What do I do? I've, I've never purchased anything, like a gadget like that. I've purchased a lot of clothes. Um,

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and my wife gets really pissed at me, because every s- especially from the TikTok shop, everything that I've ordered from the TikTok shop does not fit whatsoever, even when I follow their dumb little sizing guides that they have right there.

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That's funny. Never fits, and it looks horrible. I think these one... [laughs] I tried to get these workout shirts that, uh, these workout shirts that kinda, like, make you look like you have a pump or whatever, right?

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Sure. And so I was like, "Oh, like, this is amazing. Heck yeah." Ordered them. They come to my house, and I swear, it was like...

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I don't know if you know the pictures of Zeke Elliott when he w- he's wearing, like, a crop top, and it's, like, tight around his jersey, but- Yes...

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it, it looks like a tight crop top on me, and they're still sitting in my closet in the bag, because it's more annoying to go and return them back to wherever they came from than to just, like, keep them or throw them away.

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So I've collected- Yep... about three different clothing item orders that are just still sitting in my closet that I'll never wear, but for some reason, I have this- Yep... emotional attachment to them.

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Um, but I say that- So-... because today, real quickly, I've been targeted. It's called Norstrand or Nordstrand. It's like... Do you know the melon hats that are really popular? Yeah. Okay. Really expensive.

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They're, like, $80 hats, but this is like the same thing. Yeah, no, I have one. Uh, it's not next to me- Yes... but I golf in melon hats. Okay. So you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's essentially- Yep...

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those hats, but they're $45. They look exactly the same, and I- Nice... like I said, called Norstrand. I've clicked on it two or three times today specifically, and I'm getting blown up right now.

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Soon, they're gonna get me, but not yet. So go ahead. Tell your story. [laughs] Melon, melon hats are great, by the way. I have one. It was $80. It was a Christmas gift last year- Yeah...

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because I, I can't spend $80 on a hat. Yeah. I just couldn't do it. Yeah. Love it. I've probably worn it 500 times. I golf. It's my only golf hat. It's incredible. Anyways, speaking of buying clothes,

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BYLT, spelled B-Y-L-T- Mm-hmm. Yep... the clothing line, they targeted meLike nobody's business for probably a year on Instagram. Yeah.

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And I kept seeing Gronkowski wearing these fits and I was like, "That actually looks kinda, kinda good." And eventually last year, so 2023, on Black Friday I bought a buy three or buy three for one or something random.

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Bruh, this is Bilt. I have a whole closet of Bilt. I actually love Bilt. Yep. I love them. Yep. I have five of these shirts now. I'm tempted to get their new line. They have like joggers, all, all sorts of stuff.

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They have a couple polos with like the, like three buttons right here. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah. I love Bilt. So sometimes you actually take a risk and you buy the click bait- Yeah...

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and you're like, "Actually, that was dope and I love it." Yeah. Yeah, Bilt's a huge one. They've targeted me for a while and then I stopped clicking on them, so for like the last year or so they have not.

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But so many people wear, wear- Mm-hmm... wear these Bilt shirts. And I will say like once you find that one thing that you love, and especially at, maybe it's a dad thing where you just buy like- Yes...

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every color of it, maybe even multiples- Yes... of the same color so you can wear it multiple times. Like I have these same... So there's a cheap, it's not cheap anymore, they kinda blew up, but it's called True Classic.

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Mm-hmm. Just plain cotton tees. Yep. Got, got, you know, targeted what, I didn't even know what it was, Instagram years ago. Now I buy a ton of True Classic tees and I just- Yep... have them in every color.

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But they sh- those ones shrink. Yeah. And I don't- Yeah. Oh, and I got a Cut, I got a Cut shirt, the Bilt competitor. So they're- Oh. Yeah. I, I've been all over- Yeah... the place with these stupid ads.

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They always get me. Yep. I guess- Yep... this is why they're there. I had a tweet last year at some point, it went like semi-viral.

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I said, "I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you have one pair of underwear that you like more than the others, go buy 15 pairs of those right now," and it blew up.

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I have, not exaggerating, 20 pairs of exactly the same boxers. They are random, but they're from Reebok. They fit perfectly, and I will not buy or try any other boxers because I know for a fact- Yeah...

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these fit perfect. So my whole boxers drawer is- Yeah... filled with the same, they're all different colors, but the same exact boxers. It's a, it's a life hack. Just go buy- Yeah... 20 of the same thing.

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Are you a boxers or a brief kinda guy? Uh, boxers. Boxers. Or brief. Brief. Brief. The, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're hugging, they're hugging my legs. They're hugging my legs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

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Yeah, yeah. So I, I might have the same exact Reebok ones and I love 'em. I have Reebok ones that I love, but hold on. I recently went to TJ Maxx, got me some Nike ones, and I love those as well. Okay.

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But it's, I think I love those 'cause they're like really fun colors. Mm. And then my- Mm...

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my wife opens up a package and to this day she has four packages that she walks in with and I was like, "I think it might be time," 'cause we're about to move into this house in two months.

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I'm like, "I think it might be time to stop ordering as much stuff. Like, maybe we should slow it down a little bit," you know what I'm saying? Sure.

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And she goes, she's like, "But I bought you these," and it's Kim K's SKIMS brand, but she bought me their briefs. Okay. And they actually- Okay... are extremely soft and like they hug- Are they?... the leg.

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They're, you know, athletic material, whatever. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're, they're good. They're good. Yeah. I'm, uh, I'm wearing- Don't, don't poke me on that. [laughs] No, I, I won't.

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I'm wearing Vuori shorts right now. Ooh. I'm, I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get just a taste of the luxury because I'm not there yet. Yeah. Everyone listening to this, I have not made it.

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I'm so far, I'm so far from making it, but, but let me taste what luxury feels like. Wear a couple little Vuori shorts just to, just to know what it feels like. Yep. Yep. But, uh- Yeah...

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hey, on this topic, we are talking about... Actually, I wanna switch back to the SDR AI thing- Ooh... as a good segue to- Let's go... a question from one of our listeners. Let's go. Let's, ooh. Sean Murphy.

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I think Sean Murphy keeps making- Ooh... almost as much as Brian Lamotta. Should we do a little fourth wall break here and just talk about Brian Lamotta first? Yeah, we might as well.

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Gosh, Brian Lamotta is such a good looking guy. Well, well- I wonder what boxers Brian Lamotta- Yeah... Brian Lamotta wears. [laughs] I, I bet he wears Lululemon briefs. I, I wouldn't doubt that for a second.

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No, no, no, no. 16.50 per pair. He wears Lululemon briefs. Kong branded. [laughs] Just around the waistband and he lets them show just a tad. Okay. So- All right...

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you're a CEO and founder, and so this question is for you. I have some thoughts, but I really wanna hear from you. Sean Murphy asks, "How do you use automation to optimize your work?"

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And he mentions AI agents, tasks, Zapier, Zapier, you know, whatever it is, but how do you u- like you at Demo in your life use automation to help?

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Ooh, this is actually, I have a call with somebody that pretty much automates every workflow they possibly can because I don't think I automate enough.

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Now at Demo, a lot of my automation comes from, like I don't automate any emails that go out. Well, our newsletter and things like that, like our welcome emails, but like prospecting and stuff.

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I don't automate any of that. That's all personalized.

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I do automate all of the account research, whether it's with the tools that I have like free credits for, or a lot of times I'll just go to ChatGPT and ask a very specific question.

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So I automate a lot of the account research, like what is this company doing? Give me some of their revenue numbers. Like what are their strategic initiatives? Mm. And tell me why you think that.

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Like, just things like that. Like before a call, let me read a summary about them to make sure I'm up to date on what's going on. Yep.

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Um, when it comes to like automation and from a Demo perspective, one big thing I think for us is owning our email audience and making sure that we can do email marketing as, as well as we possibly can.

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So when somebody signs up, a welcome email a couple days later, shoot them over like a, "Hey, by the way, you should check this out or this out." All of that's Zapped and automated through Beehiiv. Mm. Shout out Beehiiv.

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What up, what up? Yeah. Um, so which we gotta talk about what I messaged you earlier, but, um- Yes... all of that's automated. When it comes to my personal life,

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like yesterday I used ChatGPT and I said, "Give me three options for each day and I want healthy meal options from Sunday through Thursday for dinner."So then now I have options for Sunday through Thursday for dinner, three different options because we're going to the grocery store.

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So we kind of like, I automated what will be meal prep or for dinners that, that week or this week. Um, but I don't do anything crazy where it like does things for me in my day-to-day basis. It's kind of...

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It's, it's typically ad hoc. Cool. Yeah. I mean, I think what I'm learning is even you prompting ChatGPT to meal prep for you

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is leagues beyond what most people are doing right now, and it's because they don't even have the thought to do it. But that's a, that's a huge unlock because it's actually really helpful. I've done that,

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um, I've done that with workout tips, with running tips. I have a running GPT that I customized to like coach me. Although I have actually hired an actual running coach, so that's cool. Whoa, that's new. As of last week.

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Yeah, that's new. Yeah, no, as of last week, I have a running coach. I'm, I'm doing the Chicago Marathon. Let's go. And I need help.

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So this running coach, uh, he happens to be a friend of mine from growing up, and so I've known him for 25-plus years. Um, but he's done like a 226 marathon. He's run probably 15 or 20 marathons. He ran- Mm.

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-collegiate long distance. He's been a coach ever since. So he's, he's like the GOAT. Super awesome. I'm getting a great rate because I've known him forever. Uh, but I'm super excited.

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I mean, already I've met with him once, and he's given me some tips, and I'm like, "Oh, this is why people hire coaches." The, it's just- Yeah. -nuance and detail that you would never think about.

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But all I have to say, I do have a h- I have a running GPT, and it's, it's a few things. I have a running newsletter, and the way I curate my running newsletter, it's a personal, almost, almost diary.

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I'm not a running expert, and so you're not gonna subscribe to my running newsletter to like get all the tips and tricks to how to run because I'm learning how to do that right now.

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It's more of a follow along my journey while I figure out how to run long distance. Yeah.

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And almost e- even my tagline on Threads, where this is where a lot of my running content is on Threads, is becoming a long-distance runner in public, and that's kind of what I display public facing.

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So running.beehiiv.com, that's my newsletter, but the GPT I've created is almost therapy to create and, and, and, uh, generate this newsletter.

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So I tell this GPT what I've done, how I'm doing, how I'm feeling, setbacks, goals, and it talks to me like a therapist, like a coach. They say, "Oh, well, I'm sorry to hear you had tendon pain.

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What are you doing to, you know, get over this?" And, and, and I'm just having a conversation. It could be a five-minute conversation. It could be a five-hour conversation. It will not end the conversation. Only I will.

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Uh, this is how I've programmed it. Only I can end that conversation. Once I'm done, I say, "Turn our conversation into a newsletter." I've told it what the newsletter is. I've told it how to format the newsletter.

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I've told it exactly what the newsletter should include, titles, sections, et cetera, and it plops out a newsletter based on our actual conversation. I paste it into a newsletter.

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I edit it, so I'm actually like curating it a little bit beyond that and, and fine-tuning it, and then I send it.

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It's an awesome way to learn, grow, and actually curate content that is personal, but still with the help of AI.

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You were telling me about that and a few other personal GPTs that you ran, and when we first started this podcast, I think you even started like a Danson Troberg GPT. But- I did.

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I think we should start getting that back up and running because now you're- Yeah, we should. -making me remember once we're done with an episode, I'll go back and I'll edit it.

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I'll try to make it sound as good as I can for somebody that doesn't know how to edit things, and

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I then take that transcript and I run it through ChatGPT to one, create like a title, create the best like SEO kind of stuff for YouTube- Yep.

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For podcast, and then I also tell it to like bullet point every single little thing that we talked about because then I use those for like LinkedIn nuggets where I can go to those, all those topics and be like, "Ooh, that's kinda controversial.

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That'll get somebody's attention." So, um, I do- Yeah. -all these random things, and we should probably run that through like some workflow to do it- For sure. -all for us right when it's done. Yeah.

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'Cause all I need- Do it today. -is the transcript. No, I know. Do it. And, and what I built is Danson Troberg is literally the name of the GPT. It's hilarious.

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Uh, but it'll, it'll give us topics to come back to in the following episode and then just talking points and stuff. So super helpful. Yeah. The one thing I'm proudest of that's not fully functional, but I spent...

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I, I was up late one night and spent hours deep diving into Replit, and I have a local newsletter. It's called Palmetto Parents. We're big in Summerville, South Carolina.

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We have another city that we just launched in Charleston, South Carolina. I built this app in Replit, which if you haven't used Replit and you don't know how to code, Replit's awesome. You will have a field day. Yeah.

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I hear good things. And it effectively, yeah, it will effectively... The, the app curates any newsletter I want. Again, not fully functional. I got pretty close though, and it scared me how good it was.

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I got a list of I, I think it was 12 cities, and in those 12 cities, 10 to, 10 to 15 different types of parents because my local newsletter is written specifically for parents.

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And in any of those different variables, I could generate a real-time and a- actively relevant newsletter in the click of a button. Dude.

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And so it was, I don't know what, 10 times 15, I think is, is how many variables there are- Yeah. -in real time daily.

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And so effectively you could, you know, connect a Chrome job to it, and you could have, uh, you know, a whole whatever you want, have a conglomerate of hyperlocal newsletters generated by AI.

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Of course, there's so much oversight that I think would be required because even with AI right now you'll, you'll have to do some fact-checking.

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Like, okay, well, is this event actually happening at the place it says it is? Oh, no, they got the date wrong. Oh, no, they got the time wrong and-So, you know, I use AI to help- Yeah...

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my writing a lot, but I'm always checking it, you know, because- Yeah... you're always gonna be the best fact-checker as it currently stands. It's gonna get better though. Yeah. That's sick.

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I actually was just on a call last Thursday with a buddy of mine who, I guess, is there a Replit competitor named, like, V0 or something? Whatever- Yeah... whatever it is. Okay. Got him. He's- I haven't used it, but yes.

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So he, same thing, he's kinda like same stage as me. He just founded a company. But for his engineering team, he builds everything pretty much MVP for the app through V0.

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Then he sends it over to engineering, and they're able to easily, like, whip it up. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a quick, uh, a quick pivot as well here. TikTok ban. Okay. Dude, what about that? Dude.

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How about the TikTok ban? What are your thoughts on it? I missed it. I opened it up, like, 15 times, and I was like- I know, I know... "Damn. Got me again." I, I don't wanna be labeled as a conspiracy theorist, but

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there has to be a reason that TikTok... Uh, so here's my very limited understanding. The law passed under Biden administration was more or less suggestive when you look at the fine print.

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And this is not a political show. I'm not gonna even- Now I'm scared that I asked. [laughs] No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not even gonna g- I'm not even gonna get there.

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But this is, uh, very specific to TikTok, so my opinions on the past and current administration totally aside.

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TikTok name-dropped Trump in the little popup when they said, "We've banned it, but, you know, the next President Trump has already mentioned and vocalized that he's gonna work with us to get it back up and running."

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To do that the day before, so Saturday, uh, two days before the inauguration or the passing of, of the hand,

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and then 12 hours later to undo that and again say, "Thanks to President Donald Trump, we have already blah, blah, blah, and in his future presidenc- presidency, he's gonna help us, you know, make a long-term play of this," I'm like,

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there- there's definitely an angle here that I think it was a marketing campaign somehow, don't know how, but somehow controlled or driven or operated by the Trump administration. And look,

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I- I- there are 170 million u- US users, active users of TikTok, not even considering all the other countries that have TikTok alive. That is insane. I- I- Yeah...

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don't even know what TikTok is up to, if this is a totally left field conspiracy that is so far off base. But I, it was, it was very prominent Trump shout-out on both sides of the ban. Yeah.

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And I thought that was, uh, that was notable. Yeah, it was. It, so notable to the, to the point where thousands of people talked specifically about the shout-out of- Yeah... Trump getting it back up and running.

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A lot of people has saw that they're gonna del- you know, delete the app and things like that, which, hey, I get it. Um, but yeah, I...

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What it did show me, outside of all the conspiracies, what it did show me is how much of a problem I had. So- Mm... like, anytime I'd go to the restroom after I had some Taco Bell, you know...

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No, I actually haven't had Taco Bell in a while. Daily. Yeah. But anytime I go to the restroom- Daily... dude, I'm just like, I click it and it's like, oh, you know, we're shut down. I'm like, "Dang."

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And I, I must have clicked it 15 times throughout the day, and so it really is mindless for me- Yeah... the amount of times that I just jump on TikTok and watch videos. Um, it's bad. And, and, and that's me, right?

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I'm like an adult. I'm trying to run demo. Yeah. I'm a dad, whatever. Now there's these kids that are so addicted, where they're, like, crying and, you know, they're...

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All, I would say that people probably went into depression when that happened. I'm sure that the kids were like, "Oh, my gosh," like, "This is, this is pretty much what my life has consisted of." So

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yeah, really, really weird timing. Very strange. I don't get it either. I'm, I'm excited to see what happens with it. Will it be 90 days? Will somebody in the US buy it? Will it be half/half? Who knows? We'll see.

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I think, uh, the, either the, the day before or during the ban, the 12-hour ban, whatever it was, I tweeted something to the effect of, "I don't think we're ready for how many people,

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younger people or not, will actually commit self-harm because of how addicted they are to just- Yeah... be stripped of this technology." I don't justify that type of addiction.

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I'm not even telling you my thoughts on that. But the reality is there are people so addicted to TikTok that if it were just deleted from the planet in one fell swoop, I think we'd see problems- Oh, yeah...

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just like we've already started to see problems. We may have mentioned this in an earlier episode. If not, there was a guy who- Mm-hmm...

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took his own life because his AI make believe fictional girlfriend chat prompt more or less encouraged him to do it. And I'm, I'm generalizing the whole situation, but it was bad and he took his life. Yeah.

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It is, it is absolutely well within reason to a- to assume people who are stripped of TikTok, who are either generating their livelihoods from it, creator fund, or just addicted to- of watching.

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I mean, there's, there's- Yeah... some bad things that would happen, and so, you know, that's a problem, obviously. We need to solve- Yeah... that problem. It's not like...

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I don't know that the solution is keeping TikTok, but, like, there's a problem, and TikTok is at least adjacent. Um,

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yeah, I think that's why in real life events, in real life advertising, even like coffee meetups are making a comeback. I think that's why AdQuick is doing such a phenomenal job with IRL ad placement.

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And if you aren't familiar with AdQuick, it is- Tell me...

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an out of home advertising platform that simplifies the process of planning, buying, and measuring outdoor ad campaigns.It connects advertisers with media owners, offering access to thousands of billboards, transit ads, and other OOH inventory across the US and globally, which is pretty cool.

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Adquick leverages data analytics and advanced targeting tools to optimize ad placements, measure campaign performance, and ensure maximum ROI.

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The platform is designed for brands, agencies, and marketers, providing a seamless way to execute OOH campaigns efficiently, whether for local, regional, or national audiences.

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If you're interested in placing ads IRL, where they can't be banned because TikTok is virtual and IRL is out there in the real world, check out Adquick. It's A-D-Q-U-I-C-K.com. It's an awesome app. Troy and I love it.

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D- You'll love it. Love me some Adquick. And also for the boomers, IRL means in real life. I'm not sure. [laughs] In real life. In real life.

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In real life, which now the kids have to say 'cause they don't really meet up IRL. Everything's met up online. Um, but that's all right. IRL, in real life. Hey, quick question for you. Yes.

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You mentioned that you golf in melon hats. Yeah. Are you a big golfer? Or what's going on? I love it. Yes. I, I recently had a monthly club membership to a, uh, actually it was paid annually.

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I had to cancel it because I couldn't go enough. But- Mm-hmm... to a virtual golf club.

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It was a house of awesome sims, and I loved it, and then I had a second kid, and there are literally no hours in the day that I could golf like that anymore. Yeah. But yes, huge golfer. Yeah.

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Uh, just unfortunately busted my driver, so I do need a new one. Uh, but yes, I love golfing. Yeah. I haven't been as much this year. I golfed maybe 30 or 40 times last year. Ooh. This year- That's nice... my...

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Yeah, it was awesome. Um, second kid and the sleep schedule has certainly not let that happen this year or over, I mean, now 2025, but over the last year. But, you know, who knows?

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2025, if I can get 10 rounds this year, I'll be happy. I'll be more than happy. Yeah. Um, I think I maybe did five rounds in the last 12 months. I'd love to. And I typically go... I'm not great. I'm not great.

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I'm shooting on a good day. My best day, I'm shooting mid-80s. On a typical day, I'm shooting a 95. I, I'm, I'm- Oh, you're way better than me. [burps] Dude- Don't even ask me.

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Re- You're not allowed to ask me what my handicap is or what I typically shoot. It's not a- Well, I think-... it's not a question I'm willing to divulge.

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Well, I think it sounds like you're good enough to the point where you at least have one shot a round that keeps you coming back. [laughs] You're like, "Oh, yeah- Absolutely... that was good." Yeah, I get that too.

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I par or birdie once. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but don't, don't ask me. If I'm, if I'm shooting, if I'm shooting 105, I'm having a field day. [laughs] A field day. I am horrendous. But here's what I'll say.

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I am a good enough golfer to golf with a scratch golfer and not ruin their day. And keep up. Yep. [laughs] That is really important. Um- Yes...

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for me, for about, for about the past 10 years or so, I've only golfed about five to 10 times a year. Um, I've never been able to go a lot. I think I just kind of fell out in love with it.

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So growing up, my stepdad was- Yeah... super, super into golf. So from ages 10 to 13, I played golf competitively, which is why I've somehow kept up with it.

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But 10 to 13, like, dude, I'm swinging like little rookie clubs, amat- like these- Mm... little baby clubs, right? And so I, I, like, developed a good swing, and I still have my swing, but gosh, I- Mm-hmm...

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I can get ugly out there. And I told myself that I wanna golf I don't know how many times, but almost every single week this coming year. Yes.

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Where I will say that we're building, and, and this is, like, my, my proud moment, but we're building a golf sim in the basement. Love it. And I'm super excited- Love it...

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'cause then I can just go and at least swing whenever the heck I want. But, um, love golf, not great, super fun. And love being outside, especially on, like, a fif- Same... dude, 55 and sunny here in Wisconsin and- Mm.

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Mm, just, you know- Wisconsin has some good courses too, man. Dude. Wisconsin's... You know, my, uh, my brother, my... I have two brothers. My older brother has a golf sim in his garage, so- Ooh...

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you can, uh, definitely hit him up- Where does-... if you have any, if you have any questions. Where does he live? He's here. He moved. Okay.

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He was in Seattle, that's where he made the sim, but he since moved to where I am, uh, Charleston area. He's about 15 minutes away, so that's fun. Yeah, yeah.

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My other younger brother, as a quick side note, plays golf at least five to six times a week- Ooh... and is a professional poker player. Oh. And I mean that in every sense of the word.

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So he splits his time between Chicago and Vegas, and in the last two months, he's won 200 grand several times playing poker at big high-buy tables in Vegas. He's awesome. Love him. Yeah.

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He's much better at golf than me now because he plays, like, 1,000 times a year. [laughs] Wow. Well, hey, dude, you have, you have a, a, a pretty interesting family dynamic.

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I think your other brother is, like, a software engineer or something like that. Yeah. You're just the- Yeah... sleazy little sales rep, and then now you got a couple- Such a loser. I am such an idiot.

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Dude, at least- And, like, I got the- At least you're masculine... absolute shortest stick. I know. I'm not even masculine. Listen to my voice. [laughs] God, I'm such a stupid idiot. I hate my voice.

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When, when I edit these podcasts, I'm like, "Oh, come on, Troy. [laughs] You sound disgusting." I know. Every time you, every time you talk, I'm like, "God, you sound so bad." Like, when is this 45 minutes gonna be over?

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[laughs] Another random question that I just thought of. Yeah. What kind of music do you listen to? Ooh, it really depends. It really depends. Um, deep work, big desk energy. Shout out Tyler Dank.

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He has an awesome Spotify playlist- Ooh... and it actually- I gotta download that... hits hard. Okay. You need to download it, follow it. Um, yeah, great deep work playlist. If I'm running-It depends.

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If I'm trying to run fast, I have like a-- I have playlists. Actually, Spotify created these playlists, or someone did, and I just followed them or found them. But there's like cadence, like RPM playlists.

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So if you're trying to run like a one forty-five to one sixty-five cadence, there's a playlist. Yeah. Oh, wow. If you're trying to run like a one fifty-five to one eighty cadence, there's a playlist.

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So I have these playlists. Um, and then sometimes I'm listening to like worship music. I'm a Christian. Yep. I like some worship music. Big, big worship music guy. Uh, sometimes just instrumental.

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I have actually put my headphones in and listened to white noise before just to like- Ooh... turn my brain off. Don't know if you've ever tried that- Yeah. Nope... but highly recommend it. Okay.

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But yeah, a little bit of everything. Okay. What about you? I grew up on rap. Yeah. I definitely grew up on rap, and I was just... I was obsessed with it. All up until recently, it's kind of taken a backseat.

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Now I'm kind of just like, "What's hot today?" Right? Like, throw me, throw me on some Benson Boone, and we're gonna jam out on some- Yep...

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man, some Benson Boone in the car, or Zach Bryan, Morgan Wallen, all that fun stuff. So now it's more like whatever's, whatever's hot right now. But when I'm in the gym- Yeah... I think it's more rap when I'm in the gym.

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And then when I'm at home, I have this mix that I guess Spotify automatically created called Chill Mix, and it's like a little bit mix of like beats, but also like some very calm, like reggae. I love reggae.

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Like some calm reggae style. Like just- I also like some reggae. Dude, reggae is underrated. A lot of people, I mean, I guess for good reason, they always stereotype, "Hey, he's a pothead" with reggae.

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Don't smoke at all, but- I had-... reggae, ooh, it's great. I had a huge Bob Marley phase, and- Yeah. And I, like, I mean it. I'll listen to his entire, like- Yeah, he's great... whatever it's called, the discography

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many times. And so- Yep... vibing hard. Love, love some good reggae. Went to Jamaica for our babymoon with our first, so this was three and a half years ago now.

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Had like a Jamaican playlist, and I was listening to that thing like way long after we were in Jamaica. I was like- Oh, yeah... "Actually, this, this, this roll's pretty hard right now." So- Dude. Dude.

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I also love Discover Weekly. Like Spotify has hooked me forever because their Discover Weekly is so- Dude... good at telling me new songs I've never heard of that are so good. I love their algorithm. Yeah.

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Yeah, their algorithm's great. It's, it's really, really good. Almost as good as TikTok's. I love TikTok. I love TikTok. But yeah, Discover Weekly is great. It is, yes. Yes.

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All right, are we ready for some listener feedback? 'Cause there are a couple. Let's do it, and I will say I don't think we have the time to do it today.

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On YouTube, we've had a handful of comments over the last couple weeks. And- Oh, really? I didn't- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But we won't bring those up today, or I'll let you start, and I'll try to see if, how many we have.

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But yeah, go ahead. Sure. So while we're on the topic of YouTube, please go like, follow, subscribe, and comment on our YouTube channel. We are- Please...

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slowly but steadily growing, and it is honestly probably the most important channel for our podcast right now, early days, beyond LinkedIn, where, of course, we post about it a lot, and we both have massive followings.

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Massive is relative. Much smaller than like Darren McKee or, you know- And Brian Lamana... the million-plus crowd. Brian Lamana's such a good-looking fella. Give him a follow on LinkedIn if you haven't already.

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But some listener feedback.

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I posted earlier today, I said we're going to the studio, we're recording some things, and Andreas Jaeger, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, asks, "We're about to bring a solution to market that truly levels up something nearly every business uses."

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So I don't know what the solution is, but he says, or she, "What's your best advice for having businesses take a, quote, chance on an innovative solution?" Really thought-provoking question. You're the founder of Demo.

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You, of course, serve many SaaS companies. I work at Beehiiv. It is a SaaS company. I think we're both innovative in our own ways. And this is kind of a sales question.

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How do you convince someone to take a chance on you? And I think I did that a lot early days at Beehiiv. Now we have some maturity in our business.

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You don't really need to take a chance with Beehiiv because we have so much social proof now. Yeah. But early days, I'm curious, Demo, do people feel like they're taking a chance with you?

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I mean, we're a customer of Demo, or at least a free user. Sorry if we're not paying you. That's not in my, uh, purview. But I don't think we took a chance.

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I just was excited to use it, but you tell me your thoughts on this one. Yeah. So this is, uh, this is a huge question, 'cause almost every customer that we have is taking a chance.

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They're taking a chance on us that we will become the de facto of this is where I go to see software demos. And so we're not that yet at all, right? We're building this brand.

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Luckily, we, we've come out the gate with a decently strong brand name, but we still aren't that place to go to evaluate software. It's still gonna be ChatGPT, Google, G2, Trust Radius, things like that.

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But companies, I was actually just on a call recently, and I'm pretty sure that they are going to take a chance on us 'cause I told them like, "Hey, here are our strategic initiatives this year to get to X, Y, Z, like where we wanna be.

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We might fail. Like I have no idea, but I'm putting all of my eggs into this basket 'cause I really believe in it." And this is what I told them on the call.

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And I was like, "That's why I think that it would be successful if you are a customer," um, whatever. And so they are taking a chance of what will possibly happen. Um, how I sold it, I think a lot of times,

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'cause it, it does sound like it's kinda like, it sounds like this person's trying to see how they can sell their solution is what this question's kind of phrased as. Confidence, and like you just...

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One, there has, like there has to be pain, but I still think that people buy from excitement as well, especially if you're not too expensive. I think people buy from excitement. Um,

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so you just have to have so much confidence that what you're building and what you're creating is going to be like the next big thing. And it might not be. It might fail.

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It might crap the bed, and you might, you know, they might be out of some money. You might be out of a relationship. There's a lot of relationships you can build out there in the world, so don't worry about it too much.

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But that's my thing, is when I was selling it, people are always taking a chance on us, and then it's up to me to make that chance successful. So like let's hypothetically say Nooks becomes a customer.

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Now I automatically know, hey-I need to push cold calling and, and what I love about cold calling on LinkedIn, because it'll make, it'll make Nook successful as a customer.

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So that's kind of like how I also go about it once they have taken the chance. But that's my- Yeah... that's my outlook on it. Yeah, I think early days it's, it's, it's privy to even fundraising.

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When you're raising a round, especially like pre-seed, seed, series A even, you're selling yourself and you're selling an idea. Because you don't actually have anything to sell.

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I mean, you might have something, you may even have product market fit depending on when you raise, but you're convincing investors, like, you would be doing yourself a disjustice by passing on this opportunity.

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And if you're really confident that that is actually the truth and you sell that thing like a dog, you're gonna get really successful investors on that cap table.

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I think the same thing goes for an early product, you know, pre-product market fit, pre-launch. Like, I don't- Andreas Jaeger doesn't even mention what this product is, so it may even be pre-launch.

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You're, you're, it, you're kind of selling like you're selling a round. You're selling yourself. You're selling what you know you can build.

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You're selling what you know the product can serve and what the market is asking for that you're solving for.

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It doesn't even really matter as much now as what the product can do, it's what actual solution you're providing to a blank canvas where the market share is like, "Hey, we are begging for Andreas Jaeger to invent this thing."

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Yep. And so- Yep... I think early adopters will be, uh, advantageous to that, and also for your own product development. You'll be able to... I would pick, I would pick your early adopters.

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You want ones that are gonna help advise the actual solutions you build before you build them. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And to, to follow up on that, don't give it away for free for those early adopters.

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David Cancel, founder of Drift, did a thing where essentially he would go up to people and say, "How much money do you have in your pocket?"

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If they said, "10 bucks, 50 bucks, 100 bucks," he would say, "That's all I need. Like, one time fee- Mm-hmm... that's all I need." And there were a lot of people that had $20, and he was like, "Cool.

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20 bucks, you're now an early adopter." But if people don't pay, they won't take it serious. So try to get- Yep... paying customers. We were very strict on that.

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And actually what we do at Demo today is we pitch features that we want to build, and then if people say- Mm-hmm... "Yes, sounds interesting," I say, "Would you pay this much for it?" If they say yes- Yep...

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then we, if we get a x amount of money from people saying yes, we'll go and build that feature and have it shipped within a week. So, like, that's what we do- Yep... and how we build here at Demo. But yeah, don't, uh...

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Get early adopters and have them pay something. Whether it's a dollar or $100, like, get them to pay something. Yes. What's the next feedback? I love that.

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Anderson O says, "What is the biggest blind spot that organizations you serve tend to have?" And then it says, "What is the biggest blind spot that your organization has?"

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So let's pick one of those, 'cause those are two really big questions, and I think the answer is very, whether I answer it or you answer it. Uh, so let's go with the first one.

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What is the biggest blind spot that organizations you serve tend to have? I'll answer first because I read this earlier and I have a great answer. People I talk to- Can you answer, can you answer in one word or no?

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'Cause I wanna see if we shout out the same word. I don't think I can answer it in one word. Okay. No, no, no. Okay. Go. 'Cause that would be hilarious. My- Go. I, I think mine's probably different too.

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It's very newsletter specific. Okay. I think people I serve are typically totally oblivious to how much money their current newsletter with small, consistent tweaks could generate for them. Mm.

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I think even, even in the cases where you're like, oh, that brand, this logo must obviously have it all figured out, it's like, no, no, no. I'm talking to the biggest logos on the planet

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who I'm still advising, like, actually you could be making 100x what you're making right now by doing this- Yeah... tweaking that, offering these things. And I think it's, it's to... I live and breathe newsletters.

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It's so second nature to the way my brain is wired right now, and I've seen so much social proof and success with people that it's like, well, obviously you do this.

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But newsletters are still legacy for many organizations. And so that's what I think the blind spot is, is like, people think, oh yeah, this could definitely be a six-figure business. I'm like, no, no, no.

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You're sitting on an eight-figure business because of your- Yeah... recognition, your audience, what you've already built, the tools you have at your disposal. Like, we are way past six figures. Yeah.

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And I think that is, uh, illuminating for a lot of customers. What about you? So I'm not gonna make it newsletter specific. And you are really good at figuring out these small tweaks to make money on a newsletter.

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You need to figure out how to monetize it. I think you might even be monetizing it right now, I'm not sure. But regardless, go help people figure out how to make money on newsletters. Yep. I would say there's two things.

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One, and I'm just talking about organizations in general. This doesn't apply to every single organization. But two blind spots I see, one of them, ooh, it grinds my gears. Customer support. Customer support.

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Jason Limkin talks about this too, where he just turned off, like, two companies recently because they have not reached out to him in the entire year of s- being signed up as a customer. Like, customer support- Wow...

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sucks, dude. Sucks. Like, I love Canva, but Canva, I need to change my primary email and I've reached out to y'all four times [laughs] and I can't. Like, I don't know what to do. I even emailed the CTO.

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I was like, "Melanie-" They have to sponsor Two Dads Tech Podcast now. I know. I know. They have to sponsor us. So- They have to buy a three-month package for $100,000. Dude. It's the only way.

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So that's, that, that's one thing.

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The other thing is just companies as they scale and they get a little bit too big, they operate in silos, and then, like, the handoff from sales to CS is really bad, and that causes a poor experience.

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And then account management and CS, they don't really know who does what. Like, there's a lot of blind spots that happen there. But, um, those two things that they, they come top of mind right now to me. Yes. So, yeah.

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I think the handoff is a big one. I think more organizations need to have people who understand-How operations work well beyond their own day-to-day scope.

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I think as silos start where there's this org that understands how this thing operates and this org that understand how that, and, like, those two people don't really get the other one at all or even have familiarity with it, man, it's, it's, it could be bad news if not solved early on.

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So- Yeah... 100% on that one. Yeah. That's all I have. I, I mentioned Sean Murphy's earlier. Also, I'm gonna put Courtney Cook on the hot seat right now.

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She asked me to bring up incentivizing sales meetings by paying to have a demo, and Courtney, we already brought that one up. So- It's- It appears to me, and I believe Troy can affirm my appearance here,

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you're not listening to this podcast. And so Courtney Cook- She's not... shame on you. Tisk, tisk. She- ASMR tisk, tisk. Tisk, tisk, tisk, tisk.

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[laughs] But what I will say this, in, in her defense, I don't think we ever spoke about it as if it's ethical or it's a good strategy or anything like that. We did- Hmm... speak about it in a sense of which- Okay.

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Okay... we take the money for demos. But- Oh, strong defense. Well- Strong defense... maybe we'll talk about that in the next episode. But- Yeah, that was a good one... Daniel, where can they find us?

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You can find us at Two Dads in Tech on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can also find us at twodadsintech.com.

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It's also where if you're interested in sponsoring our podcast, there is a form you can fill out. It will get to me in email. I'll respond quickly.

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We are booked out all the way until March right now, and we're booking out fast into Q2 as well. But if it's a good product and company and brand alignment, we would love to have a conversation, so hit us up.

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We are excited for 2025. A lot of big things happening, and some awesome guests who we are not gonna reveal yet, but I promise- Ooh... it's gonna be exciting. I think we have

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a recording session with one of them, if not this week- Mm-hmm... either this week or next, the 45 session. I have to, I have to look. I think it's- I'll let you know. Wait. When is it? It's, it's soon.

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Next- I think it's- I think it's the first week in February. Yeah, well, that's one. No, no, no, there's an- there's another one that is even bigger, to be honest. [laughs] Maybe not bigger- Oh, man. Oh, yeah.

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I didn't know that was next week. You should send me that invite if you haven't already. I gotta find it. I gotta... I, I have this calendar link. Anyways, yes, huge guest. If you've listened this far- Huge...

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five stars Apple, five stars Spotify. Please. Please go subscribe. That means a ton to us. Daniel- Yes... it's always a blast talking to you for, like, an hour. Always. I wish it wasn't this long. You're annoying.

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Anyways, everybody- I hate you so much, but it's so good to t- [laughs] I, I- I don't know how to finish that sentence I, I know you [laughs] It's like Michael Scott. He's like, he's like, "Sometimes..."

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Look, Michael Scott, he's like, "Sometimes I start a sentence, and I just keep talking. I don't know exactly how I'm gonna end the sentence."

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I, I can't, I can't quote that scene, but that is one of the funniest scenes of all time. [laughs] Oh, it's a good start. I love it. Hey, everybody, have a beautiful day. See ya.