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Well, happy Wednesday everybody. Are you a big Ford guy? No, I'm not a big Ford guy. I actually, I wear this hat because I needed a navy hat, and it was on sale for 10 bucks at Urban Outfitters, so I copped it.

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How's it look? It looks good. Urban Outfitters. That's, uh, I just passed an Urban Outfitters earlier this morning in Charleston. Almost walked in, did not.

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Dude, considering that you're rocking gold chains and stuff nowadays, I think that you should have walked in. It's like- I know. I know... I say, ooh.

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You, do you keep it tucked in or do you untuck it when you're wearing these shirts? Usually, usually tucked in. Usually tucked in. I want people to, I want people to wonder. I want people to, I want people to wonder.

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What, what gets you to untuck it? Like, what kind of scenario do you have to be in to, to whip that bad boy out? Uh, I have a couple shirts, I have a couple shirts that are, that are, that are kinda snug around the neck.

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I untuck it for those. I untuck it for those. Ooh, that's nice. I know. Our last two episodes we had guests, and we don't typically do guests.

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I wanted to sit here and kinda talk about what do you think about those guests, how do you think it went, and I have some thoughts that I wanna share about it too. Yeah.

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We don't usually have guests, and when we have, they've certainly not been back-to-back. It's been an exciting few weeks at Two Dads and Tech. We had the one and only Tyler Denk from Beehive.

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So I've had the pleasure of working closely with him for the last several years, and it was cool to get him to talk a little bit about who Tyler is behind the scenes.

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And then of course we know last week we had Sam Parr, uh, and you know, he's kind of been through a whole journey of his own from my first million, not my first millionaire, for those who listened to last- Dude...

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week's episode. Uh, he of course started The Hustle and sold that to HubSpot, and then, uh, a number of other things that he's up to now with Hampton and, uh, Moneywise.

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And so, I mean, it's just been a packed few weeks, and I've actually really enjoyed having guests.

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But you and I were talking a little bit offline, it's almost, it's almost like this balancing act that we're, we're trying to, you know, walk, where we want to have guests, and I think part of the, the fun in Two Dads and Tech is us getting to kind of ask those questions that we think they probably haven't been asked on other podcasts, and maybe even some that they're not necessarily prepared to answer.

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You know, I think it was funny, we kind of threw off Tyler with one of the questions. He's like, "Uh, yeah, I haven't been asked that before."

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And so that's the value we bring is we're trying to, we're trying to think a little bit beyond the facade or, or public appeal that people kind of give a, an impression of online, and we want to kind of go where others haven't gone before.

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I've loved it. What about you? I mean, how do you feel like the last couple episodes with those, what I, what I'm, dare I say, two banger guests were in the last couple weeks on Two Dads and Tech?

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They were incredible guests. And yeah, I've got some thoughts on having guests. First and foremost, Tyler, he's so calm and he's so chill. He is. Like, I almost wonder two things.

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One, what is it that makes him excited and get out of his calmness from a excitement perspective? [laughs] And then two, like him being like, "Let's go, come on," like I wanna see him like that.

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And then two, like what makes you tick? You know, like really what, [laughs] what makes you go off? And maybe you know this, but you probably don't wanna share it if you do.

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Um, you've worked with that guy for a while now, but- I've seen it. I've seen it. [laughs] And I bet it's there. I bet it's there. But, so I like having guests.

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And I kind of want to give the real real behind having guests, and I think there's two reasons to have guests. And real quickly I'd like to give a quick shout-out to our sponsor Agree. That's agree.com, A-G-R-E-E.com.

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They are by far, without a doubt, the best solution when it comes to documents in the entire market.

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So over here at Demo we switched our entire infrastructure to go from DocuSign to agree.com, and the reason for that is simple. One, the pricing is a little bit more friendly for a company like us.

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Two, they have payment integrations. And three, I no longer have to spend time chasing down invoices. It's an incredible tool, it's really easy to use, and they are growing extremely fast.

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So go ahead and check out agree.com. That's A-G-R-E-E.com. One, just to switch things up so you don't have to listen and deal with Daniel and I for 45, 50 minutes.

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The second reason is to get really interesting people on the podcast that like transparently put will help the podcast grow, but also like get people to want to be interested in what we talk about and those people's lives beyond the, whether it's success, whether it's fatherhood, whatever.

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Like, however they a- appear online, like what's behind that, right? Like the Brian Lamana, for example, and KD, like it's almost like what's behind your online persona? But- Yeah...

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the realness behind it is like having a guest is interesting because Daniel and I, we love to just go back and forth and riff, kind of like what he mentioned, like just talk, go unscripted.

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But when you have guests, you have to have a script, and you have to follow some sort of specific kind of workflow or walkthrough, or else it just gets disgusting and you don't ask the questions that you wanna ask. Yep.

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And, and what's behind the scenes, 'cause post-prod it sounds pretty good, right? Pre-bod, pre-prod, it's like us interrupting each other, Daniel asking a question and I'm asking a question at the same time.

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Like, "Oh, wait, nope, you go ahead. Oh, nope, nope, you go ahead." [laughs] And it's like super awkward. And then it's just, it's, it's funny 'cause we don't do inter- like we're not an interview style podcast.

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But when we have guests, it forces us to become an interview style podcast. So it's a little weird. It does. But it's amazing because like I don't think Sam Parr disappointed one bit.

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I don't think Tyler disappointed one bit. And like same thing with Brian and KD, like they didn't disappoint at all. And it's nice to have like a third party in there. But it is a little different. It is.

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It's different from the typical Two Dads and Tech style. So that's kind of my thought on like what goes on behind the scenes.

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It's fun how far we've come from having our first guest to, I think even the way that you and I were kind of riffing off each other over the last two episodes. The behind the scenes is funny. We have a shared doc.

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I'm just, I'm just spilling all the beans right now.

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We have a shared doc, and Troy and I have our second monitor up, and so we're asking these questions and, you know, engaging with the guest, but then we're also basically-Talking to each other on this Google Doc about who goes next, and then like when there's an off script, like, oh, I'm gonna...

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Like the way that this guest responded was awesome, and I don't want, like, if I asked a question and Tyler or Sam responded, like, I don't necessarily wanna just move on from it.

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So I'll be like, "Yo, let me keep going in the, in the doc." And then, and then Troy's like, "I have a great thought, like, in the doc." So I'll like pause instead of us just saying, "Troy, you go ahead."

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And, and like, it sounded, in my opinion, much more natural in the flow of the recording and definitely in post-prod for us to riff because we both had a pretty good understanding of the flow of the interview and the episode, but also the nuances that we both knew we would both bring to that episode.

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It's, it's great. It's great to have a good guest who is comfortable being interviewed and has been on podcasts before.

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I mean, I think Tyler and Sam both, like you said, they didn't disappoint, and I think they're both very comfortable speaking and riffing on topics that are honestly not necessarily super easy to talk about, or just, you know, you can't really throw them off.

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And so the conversation I think was very rich. Yeah. I think there was a point at Sam Parr's podcast where you were typing to me on that doc, and you were like, "Keep asking questions."

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And I'm like, "Wait, is it my turn again?" I'm ty- and just so y'all know, I'm, we're typing this back and forth as we're having a conversation. I'm like, "Wait, so still my turn?" He's like, "Yes."

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And I'm like, "Uh, okay. I guess I gotta find another question to ask." [laughs] But yeah. It's just, it's fun. It's fun. It's different. It is. But I love it, man. I love it. I, I was, I was...

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Actually, this is gonna be a pivot because I was gonna say I was on TikTok Live today, and so I'm doing this thing. It's really weird. I feel extremely uncomfortable doing it, but I'm gonna go ahead and admit it.

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And I wasn't gonna bring it up, but I decided why not bring it up today? Why not? So I'm doing this kind of like challenge. There's no public challenge out there, but I'm personally doing it.

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I'm going live on TikTok Live for 30 business days in a row. Doesn't matter how long. Ooh. Yeah. 10 minutes, an hour, I don't really care. And so a lot of people have subscribed from this live. Like, they'll ask us...

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My title is like, when I go live, it says like CEO/host of Two Dads in Tech. And so everyone that jumps in is like, "Hey, what are you the CEO of?" And then, "What is Two Dads in Tech?"

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And one of the hardest questions they ask is, "What do you talk about?" And I'm like, dang, where do I start? Like, so I'm like, "Um, anything and everything." So I try to narrow it down.

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I give some examples like, "If you buy a Tesla, do you support Elon Musk? And if you eat at Chick-fil-A, do you support their moral beliefs?" Like, I kinda talk about the whole spectrum, parents, all that stuff.

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But one thing that I've learned, and one thing that's really cringey is, dude, TikTok is hostile, man. People jump on there, and they'll be like, yesterday they were like, "You're way too old to wear a backwards hat."

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And I was like, "Okay, that's kinda cool." And then they were like, um- You should've been like- "What is that?"... "I'm only 17." You should've just absolutely gaslit them. [laughs] "I'm only 17 years old."

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I was just gonna- "I, I'm still in high school." Yeah. [laughs] No, I've learned that if you're white, you're a Trumper. Like, some guy came in and was like, "You're a Trumper."

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And I was like, dude, like, I'm just sitting here talking, but it's actually been a really interesting experiment. I'm 15 days in.

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Some people don't know this, but people from LinkedIn have jumped in and been like, "Yo, Troy." And I'm like, this is so awkward. Like, you, I know you from LinkedIn.

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I hate, like, I hate when attention's on me, like funny enough. I hate... I don't tell anybody when it's my birthday. I don't do any of that because I do not like attention on me.

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And so, like, when people jump in that I know from my contacts in my phone, and they're like, "Yo, we went to high school together." I'm like, "This is really awkward. Um, what's up?" Dude.

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"I'm on TikTok Live and I'm 30 years old." [laughs] But it's weird, man. But it's been fun. Yeah. Like, a lot of, a lot of subscribers have come from it and a lot of people have checked out demos, so I'm like, screw it.

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I'll go 15 more days. I don't think I'll continue after that, but it's been a weird experiment. Did you see there's someone who actually found our podcast from your TikTok Live and left a review on Apple?

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They're like, "Yo, I listen to Troy on TikTok Live. That's how I found you guys." And he's like, "I binge watched nine episodes" or something, which is, like, pretty cool. That's awesome.

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There's, there's, there's a number of reviews, and I've also received some DMs as I think you also have, you know, across LinkedIn, Twitter. People are like, "Yeah, I found Two Dads in Tech."

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One dude found Two Dads in Tech as a recommendation on Spotify. Spotify was just like, "Hey, check out Two Dads in Tech." Dude. And he listened to all of our episodes in one night. He had just had twin babies.

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He was up all night, and he listened, at that point, it was like 14 episodes. I was like, I don't even know if I like Two Dads in Tech enough to listen to 14 episodes straight. [laughs] I was like, well, how...

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That's awesome, though. I'm like, wow, that's, uh... I thought that was shocking and also, like, really affirming. I'm like, okay, we're putting something out there that people seem to resonate with.

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And I mean, i- it's, TikTok Live I think is, is untapped for us. Like, we haven't really put too much there.

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I, you know, definitely do another 15 days, but I feel like there's probably more, more to that even beyond the 15 days.

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I also really don't like when people who I don't think know about my online presence in real life mention it in real life. Dude. I've started to care less and less about it.

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Mostly because, a- and this isn't me tooting my own horn, but, like, all of my friends in real life know I, like, create content. There's just no way around it now if you... Unless you live under a rock.

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They've either seen me do a video on LinkedIn, they've listened to the podcast, you know, Twitter, I'm, I'm all over Twitter. Like, they're, that's what I do.

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I'm a content creator through this and through a lot of other avenues, but it used to make me very uncomfortable. They're like, "Oh, yeah, I saw your, your LinkedIn post."

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Or like, one, one time I saw a friend who I hadn't seen in, like, at least 10 years, and it was part of this get together, uh, a few of us one night.

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We just went and got dinner and drinks, like, I don't know, sometime last year, and I, I remember dapping him up like, "Yo, it's been... How long has it been? Like, eight, 10 years?"

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And I was trying to figure out the last time we'd seen each other, and he's like, "Honestly, I don't know when we saw each other last because I see you every day on LinkedIn."

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And it was one of the most embarrassing moments of my life because there's this dude I hadn't seen in 10 years who feels like he knows me, but I'm like, guys, my LinkedIn persona is [laughs] it- Yeah... it's a facade.

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I'm, I'm comfortable saying that. I have very real posts. I have very real posts. You'll know those posts when you see them. It's me. I'm raw. I'm talking about my family. I'm talking about health. Like, those are real.

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Those are real posts. But, like, I-My meme posts, the one that, the ones that typically go quite a bit more viral than my very real raw posts are [laughs] they're just me being a moron.

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And, and like I'm happy and, and confident in that. Uh, but I'm like, "Oh man, if that's all you know about me, uh, you don't- [laughs]... you don't really know me. Oh, geez."

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But that's what we have Two Dads and Tech for. I mean, this is, this is real. The, I think this is real us. You know, we're not really putting on a facade here, which is why I love this podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

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It, it weirded me out at first. And even to this day it still weirds me out, but I'm, I'm definitely used to it now.

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But I remember when I first started posting, I think I fell for a lead magnet, and, uh, somebody was like, "Comment growth and you'll get it." And I think it was like some outbound thing.

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And I commented growth, and I have one friend that still texts me to this day. I commented growth smiley face, and he'll just text me the word growth with a smiley face. And I'm like- Stop [laughs]...

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dude, like in the beginning, that's when I like first, first started, maybe my first week or so. That is funny. Oh, boy. It was so awkward.

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But yeah, and this, not to toot my own horn, there was one time where my wife and I was at a brewery in Raleigh, and this guy was like, "Are you Troy?" And I was like, "This is really awkward. I don't know how to act."

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I, again, I don't like attention, so like if you approach me in public, I don't know how to respond really. Like- Yeah... it's a weird, like if you're my, if you're my friend- That is weird...

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if I find that you in, in person, which I probably never will 'cause I don't want to- Yeah, no, I would never do that... but if I ever did, I'd be like, "What's up Daniel? I've recorded 176- Yeah... episodes with you.

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It's, it's nice to finally meet you." [laughs] I love when people comment. Uh, there was someone who commented on one of our posts recently, they were like, "Have you guys even met in real life?"

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[laughs] And you're like, "Ew, no." Like, but that's part of the, part of the appeal. I mean, we probably will meet- We'll, we'll meet... in real life at some point. Yeah. But, but it is very funny that we haven't.

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I mean, this is our 20th episode, which, hey, do we have a gong to ding or something? Episode 20, that's a big deal. Dude. There's like- Huge deal... 1% or something of podcasts make it to episode 20.

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I don't know what the actual figure is. I'm gonna look that up right now, but I think what's so... I tell, I tell this story.

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I told it to, I met with a Beehiiv customer today for lunch, and I was telling him, I was like, "Yeah, it's, it's interesting, we didn't even really know each other." Like, not even interactions.

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Like we'd had a few interactions. You had obviously started a Beehiiv account for demo. I'd helped you with some of that, and we had probably back and forthed 10 to 20 times total. And it was very- Yeah... business.

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Uh, w- Yeah... not real relational, just very transactional. Like, "Here's how you do it. This is how you set up an account." These, you know, passing you to solutions and stuff.

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But then I knew kind of what you were about from your content, and I think you sorta knew what I was about from my content. So I think we both just took this risk, and here we are- Yeah...

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20, 20, well, 20 episodes and 20 weeks, which is almost half a year. Dude- That's insane. Dude, that is insane. We're, we're coming up on half a year. I know.

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I tell people, I'm like, "Yeah, I started this podcast a couple months ago," and I'm like, "Wait a second. We started this like four, five months ago." [laughs] Mm-hmm. Like, I didn't even...

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It's insane to even think about that. But yeah, it's, it's fun. Actually, um, while you look that up,

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this guy has never once asked me to plug his podcast, but I'm gonna plug it because it's two to four minutes long an episode, and I think it's one of the most entertaining podcasts in the world. Okay.

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And he posted on LinkedIn not that long ago, I think it was like 50 episodes in or something, maybe 30. I can't remember the numbers, don't quote me on that. But he was like, "Hey, LinkedIn network."

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And he's, he's not like a creator, so he's, doesn't have a big following. But he was like, "Hey, LinkedIn network.

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I've been recording this podcast every single day," 'cause they're daily episodes, two to four minutes a day, of a fun fact. Like, about anything, like ants and things like that. Anything.

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And so he was like, "The thing is, it's not getting the traction that I'd wish," et cetera, et cetera. But I think it's an amazing podcast. I think his quality is incredible. I think it's clever.

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It's called While You Poop. And the reason that he names it that- While You Poop... is 'cause, While You Poop 'cause it's like, "Hey, I'm gonna give you a fun fact that you can listen to and learn while you poop."

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And so like- Love it... that's what it's called. That's his thing. Like, the sign-off is like him flushing the toilet or whatever. It is so well done.

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So if y'all ever have two to four minutes, go listen to the podcast While You Poop. I think it's by Jared Anders, I think is his last name.

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Really, really good, really well done, and you'll learn something every single day. It's While You Poop. Love that. Anyways, go. All right. So I have, I have the podcast. It, it's the Graveyard stats.

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Someone check me on this. This is just ChatGPT, and, uh, I have no sources to back this up. Yeah. But it says, "90% of podcasts don't make it past episode three. 50% of podcasts stop before episode seven."

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I don't know how those two stats- Wait... even make sense together. [laughs] All right. I'm already off to- Keep reading at this point. Yeah, no, hitting...

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And then it says, "Hitting episode 20 puts you well into the top 10 to 15% of all podcasts [laughs] ever started." I'm like, I'm like pretty sure none of those numbers make sense together. All right.

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I don't trust any of this. I don't trust any of this. And I love it because you live off of ChatGPT's, like- I do... responses. [laughs] But I, I- Like, that's what you like...

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I know, I know when the, I know when the responses are bad. I know when the responses are bad. How many podcasts don't make it to episode 20? Here we go. I'm gonna give it a second.

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I'm doing deep research here [laughs] on that stupid question. Okay. That's gonna be some time then. Let's, let's move on 'cause that's gonna be some time. I know. I know. So I have a question as we move on.

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Nope, I lost it. Go ahead. [laughs] Okay. So I have a question as we move on and wait for deep research to do its job.

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Sam Parr said something that was pretty interesting on his podcast, and he pretty much didn't hide from the fact that money absolutely does make you happier. And it made him happier. Yes.

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So I wanted to ask you, not, not you specifically, but in general, do you think money makes people happier?

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So I, I actually really like what he answered to the question of how much money it takes to not care anymore, to like no more money will actually make a difference.

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And he said 25 times your monthly spending in liquid money.

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And so I thought that was interesting because I, I, I sort of side with Sam on this philosophy where it's like money, up until that point, whatever that threshold is for you, does it create happiness? I don't know.

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I, this is all philosophy at this point. I do think strongly that it reduces stressors and friction, in some cases depression, in ways that-Inadvertently make you happier.

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You know, I've, I've lived on both sides of the spectrum.

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And look, I am privileged, and so my, you know, period of life where I was strapped and, and penny-pinching and trying to get out of student debt, like, that looks very different I know even still than, than many people in the world.

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And so I'm not unaware of that.

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But relatively, that stage of my life versus my current stage of life where I have a, a bit more money and I'm, you know, building wealth and I'm really trying to, you know, save for my future and for my kids' future,

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those two differences are fairly stark in my own mental health and in my own ability to just even juggle life.

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I mean, when you're so strapped that you're, you know, pinching pennies to get to the next paycheck to pay your bills, and I mean, I've been to the point where you gotta open a credit card just to pay your bills, and then your bill's on a credit card, and then you're still not making enough money, so you pay the bills on the credit card the next time, then you pay your credit card bills, and you just dig a, a hole further and further and further down.

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Like, I've been there. I mean, when I graduated college, I was making fifty-five thousand a year, and my wife was a teacher in Chicago suburbs, and I had a ton of student debt.

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She did not give us any student debt, thanks be to God. And the moment you stop going to school, you're, you know, Uncle Sam some- comes knocking at your door and asking you for that money.

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And so that was a stressful time in life. Super, super stressful. I hated not having enough money. I mean, there, uh, it caused anger that, uh, that I had to deal with personally.

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There were some difficult conversations my wife and I had to have where we had to just constantly revisit the money conversation. So do I think money can create happiness? In a manner of speaking, yeah.

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Uh, I do think there is a limit. You know, does ten million make you happier than eight million? I mean, I don't know. It kinda depends on what your lifestyle looks like.

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But I think one million can make you happier than twenty-five thousand because it just, it can solve a lot of problems. I do think,

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however, there's this, there's this funny, or I guess interesting thought experiment where it says if you stripped away a hundred percent of the money, the assets, you know, the net worth and net worth of a rich person

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and of a poor person and then gave them both twenty-five thousand dollars, the rich person would make a lot of money with the twenty-five thousand, and the poor person would be poor again.

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And that's a thought experiment. There's a lot of loopholes there and a lot to really unpack.

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But I think if you're just painting a broad stroke across everyone, the rich know how to get rich, and the not rich struggle to get rich. And I think that's, it's an interesting thought experiment. But what do you think?

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How do you feel about the, the money brings happiness conversation? I'm in line with you. Um, money can buy you out of stressful situations. And like,

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again, uh, s- similar to you, I'm in a fortunate situation where, like, I don't make a million bucks. I'm not a millionaire- Right...

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so it's not like I can just go do whatever I want in the world, but I'm lucky to be in this situation and grateful to be in a situation in which, like, I can go to dinner and get a babysitter whenever I want and, like, not really have to, like, worry too much about it.

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Like, I'll definitely look and be like, "Where we going?" But I feel like I'm very fortunate to be in that situation, and I do feel like the short answer, like, you unpacked it so well.

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But the very short answer I think is, yes, it can buy happiness to an extent. And that extent is, like, if you're doing everything you possibly can in the world just for money and you have nothing else, uh, maybe not.

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Like, maybe you think it makes you happy. But I, I didn't listen to that episode. You brought it up on Sam Parr's, not to, like, keep going back to that.

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But you brought it up on his saying that he had an episode saying, "I asked a hundred millionaires if money makes you happy," and I did not listen to that episode. I wish I did because I think it makes you happy.

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I think it makes you happy to an extent, but I think it's like, it comes out, like, what are you losing to become rich? That's probably where the conversation gets a little blurry.

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But in short, it buys you out of so many situations and buys you into many situations that you probably want to be, in vacations, fun things around your house, et cetera. But that's my overall- Yes... thought on it.

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How, how's deep research? Did it, did it give you [laughs] It's, it's still working. I was looking for a tweet that I think goes perfectly with this conversation, but I can't find it. Here it is.

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Dolly Bali @dollybali2 said on Twitter, X, on April 14th, so that was a few days ago by the time this episode comes out.

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He said, "Found out one of my guys who I pay well," which is, he says in parentheses, "over a million dollars," "has lived in the same three K a month apartment with his girlfriend for the last decade."

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And then he says, "Pretty admirable, to be honest." And I think it, it really goes to show people don't always look at money as a one-to-one exchange with happiness.

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Like, I, I don't know anything else about the story, about this guy, about this context, but to me it tells me this guy's happy with what anyone who makes just shy even of six figures could afford.

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He's got his girlfriend. He's got his three K a month apartment. Like, he's, doesn't really sound like he's doing much. Yeah.

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Again, like, to even Sam's point, he could be buying tons of services we don't know anything about. Yeah.

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Like, there could be a lot in his lifestyle that are totally outside of the, the realm of these very limited facts we know about him. But a million dollars, that's a lot of money. Yeah.

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And he's not necessarily inflating his life in accordance with his, his salary, and so I think there's, there's something to it. There's something to- Yeah...

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finding what makes you happy if it doesn't, you know, require a lot of money. Yeah.

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And we talked about in the very beginning of the podcast, you're making fun of my Ford hat, and I was like, "Yeah, I honestly just bought this 'cause I needed a navy hat, and it was ten bucks."

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Well, the shirt that I have on was also 15 bucks, and it's one of my favorite shirts because it's one of the most comfortable shirts I have. And I've... a few people actually on TikTok Live will be like, "Are you rich?"

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And I say, "Rich is subjective, and so I don't really know how to answer that." And they askWell, what do you spend money on? And I was like, "Well, not clothes. I don't care about clothes. I don't have any nice cars.

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I could care less about what I drive. Just get me to my destination." But I think there's two things that me and my family personally that we spend money on. One is this house, because it's like we both work from home.

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We're here 24/7, unless we're out and about. That's one. And the second thing is, that I like to spend money on, is experiences, but it doesn't even have to be something crazy. Like, it doesn't...

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I know you're going to Italy soon, which I'm so jealous about, but just being able to go out to dinner and enjoy dinner and ha- and get a babysitter so my wife and I can enjoy dinner together, or going to a brewery and letting the kids, well, one only, only one of them's [laughs] big enough to run, but run around and play and kick the ball and stuff like that.

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I like spending money on that. And other than that, I don't buy things on Amazon. The clothes that I wear are all five-plus years old. I don't care about anything like that.

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And so, I don't know, money, money allows me to do some happy things with my family. So that's where, that's where I'm at with that.

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[laughs] Yeah, and I, I think there's, having not always had the financial flexibility that I do now, my wife and I got really good at being creative. So right now, a goal we have is to go on a date every single week.

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And we're doing a pretty good job this year. And it's, it's hard. We have two kids, one is three, one is one, uh, almost one, and that's hard. I mean, that's just the lifestyle where it's not easy to go out all the time.

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But we have found a very sustainable way of going out, and there's one time we went and got fast food together, went to TJ Maxx, and then got an, a tub of ice cream on the way home at, uh- Mm...

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Earth Fare, and then ate it together at, you know, at home after the kids were in bed. And so, like, a, you don't have to, a date with your significant other doesn't need to be two, $300. You can- Yeah...

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we get a babysitter. Our most regular babysitter, well, beyond family, that's free, which is amazing. If you have family to babysit, that's always, you know, top of the list in my opinion.

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Uh, but we have a babysitter we pay $10 an hour. $10 an hour. Ooh. That's it? That's affordable. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. She's in high school.

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She's got a younger brother who she watches all the time, so super reliable. Old enough to, you know,

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u- unless it's a real emergency, like, be actually helpful i- in a, a, an emergency, where the emergency could wait for us to get home.

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Uh, you know, it's, it's $10 an hour, and so it's, it's like we could go on a two, three-hour date and it's 20, 30 bucks. That's, like, super easy to do that e- even every week.

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And so, yeah, I think you can be creative to, to- Yeah... make what matters happen when you need it to happen, even if you don't have a bunch of money to spend. Yeah. Yeah, and what's your favorite ice cream flavor?

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Like, what do you remember the tub that you bought? Oh, we got the Ben & Jerry little single serves or whatever.

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Um, I like anything with peanut butter, so I try to get, like, I'll get, like, peanut butter cups with peanut butter ice cream with peanut butter drizzle, and then I'll put peanut butter onto that at home.

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Like, I'm just, like, loading this thing with peanut butter. Yeah. Um, Courtney is dairy-free, so she gets her own ice cream usual, usually. I don't, I don't remember which one she got, but I get anything peanut butter.

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What about you? Yeah. What's your favorite ice cream? So I love peanut butter. I actually, I eat, like, four servings of PB Fit every single day. So good. So good.

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Dude, it's, I actually think sometimes it tastes better than regular peanut butter because they add organic coconut sugar, so it's a little bit sweeter- Dude... depending on what you're eating. Yeah.

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But, so I like, I'll just eat spoonfuls. I'll mix it with water and just... Oh, 100%. 100%. You can't go wrong with peanut butter. Dude, I think that this is gonna be an unpopular opinion, my favorite ice cream.

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Don't say mint chocolate chip. I'll, I'll end this podcast right now if you say mint chocolate chip. It was mint chocolate chip growing up, but it's not right now. Okay, good. Dude, good. Dude, good.

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I'm gonna say two things about ice cream. Good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good. [laughs] Go ahead. [laughs] Okay, so- Good.

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Don't say mint chocolate chip. I won't. I promise. But I love mint chocolate chip. I love thin mints. I'm a huge mint chocolate guy. I swear to God, say mint chocolate chip one more time and I'm quitting this podcast.

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[laughs] You're on your own. One dad in tech. Two things about ice cream. Two things. One is vanilla is underrated. I actually think it is phenomenal, okay? Vanilla, vanilla's, vanilla's based. I, I'll give you that.

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Yeah. I'll give you that. Okay. Just so help me God- And then-... if you don't say mint chocolate chip. No, it's not. I promise. I promise. My second one is cappuccino chocolate chunk.

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Dude, that's my favorite of all time. Cappuccino chocolate chunk. Okay, I'll give you that. Tell you that, but so good. Honestly, uh, I'm not even sure I've had it, but it sounds pretty good. Ooh. Sounds pretty good.

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Any coffee ice cream, brrr. [laughs] I wonder if they can hear that. [laughs] We should do that for the rest of the podcast episode. Put the, put the gain at, like, 10,000%. [laughs] Oh, my goodness. Oh, that'd be funny.

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That is funny. That is funny. I missed, I miss you, Troy. We don't, we don't get this with guests. I know. I know. I know. That's why it's good to have us back. It is. It is. It is. We will have another guest soon.

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I did have... I texted you, like, literally 30 minutes before this. Yes. I had one of my entrepreneurial idols respond to me saying, "I'm traveling right now, but I'd love to be a guest maybe sometime in May."

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We might have to push it, but if you know anything about entrepreneurship or newsletters, I know you do, you need to get him to convert if he's not on Beehiiv already- Mm-hmm...

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'cause he writes one of the most prolific newsletters in the world right now. Yep. He's one of the, he's one of my favorite founders in the world, and he has built one of the most successful bootstrapped companies.

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He's one of the most well-known people in the startup world, but he said yeah. So I'm pumped to have him. Let's do it. Let's do it. And then we have two other guests lined up in May and June.

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I'm not gonna give away any info, but- Oh, yeah, we do... we have exciting guests coming up. Quick pivot. Uh- Yeah... something that you've talked about a lot is your past, but you haven't really talked about it.

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You just tell us, like, high level, like, have a crazy past. Mm-hmm. So I have all my notes here, and we share our notes.

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Just so y'all know, what we do is we share our notes and, like, we kind of write down topics that we see throughout the week. Uh, Daniel did not write down anything besides recap last two guests.

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Whoa, first of all, do you see my rapid fire notes? [laughs] 'Cause I have 10- Yeah, that was five minutes before the episode [laughs]... incredible... I was, I was, I was curating. I was curating.

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Yeah, no, I didn't, I didn't prepare- But-... for this episode... but I don't, but I honestly don't care at all.

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It's kind of funny to be able to, like, just rip on what actually goes on behind the scenes, but one of them says- But my-... I have a que- What? My-I just pasted.

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I was like back and forth with the transcripts from the last few weeks and trying to ask it questions. And what's funny is I pasted the whole, "Absolutely, here are ten more concise but open-ended..." [laughs] Yes.

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[laughs] I didn't even realize that till right now. It's supposed to. [laughs] I just, I didn't even try to make it look like I didn't use ChatGPT. That's-- Yeah. Oh, that's funny. He did.

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It literally says, "These are built to feel natural and in the flow of your show." [laughs] Come on, Dancin' Trowbridge, he lives. All right. Well, we have about ten to fifteen minutes on this podcast.

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I gotta jump a little early. Um, but yeah, I wanted to ask, like, you've talked a lot about your past, and you've talked about how you've... You know, it's an episode for another day.

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Maybe it does require a full episode, but, like, I don't think you've shined any light, and maybe it's purposeful, on like what past Daniel Burke looks like. Yeah.

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It's a, it's a can of worms we probably should set aside. In a whole episode? All right. An episode for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can, I can get high level, but every, every answer is gonna require ten more questions.

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Yeah. That's fine. You don't even need to... No, we'll wait. We'll, we'll create a whole episode of both of our pasts. Okay. Cool. Let's just keep it there. Like twenty-five minutes about you, twenty-five minutes...

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Yeah. Yeah, because there's, there's just so much, there's just so much to unpack.

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There's so much to unpack, and so much misunderstood that it would have to be-- I'd have to frame it in a way that doesn't necessarily, uh... Yeah. Let's have a full episode about it. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it.

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It'd be interesting. I get it. I think it'd be a great one. Do you think that you'd be able to, to narrow it down to twenty-five minutes? Like, we both just went in on a podcast and was like...

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'Cause I have a pretty crazy past too, so- Yeah... it might be cool to be like, "Tell me about you. Okay, now tell me about you." Maybe, maybe. You're like, "I need, I need an hour and a half."

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I didn't finish middle school or high school. Was kicked out of school starting in first grade, and every year, many times, all the way through graduating, uh, with a GED, and then I started college. Holy moley.

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Oh, yeah. Which was luck. Luck, luck would have it that I finished college with a degree from Clemson, but that never should have happened.

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I, I sort of schmoozed my way through the system, having not finished any part of my schooling up to, uh, college age. So lots to unpack. Ooh. Yeah. And that's just school.

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That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of everything not school-related. Yeah. School is like one percent. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's crazy. It's crazy.

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You, yeah, you, you know- It leaves you asking a lot of questions. [laughs] As it- Yeah. We'll, we'll- As it leaves me asking a lot of questions. [laughs] How in the hell did I get here? Um... Yeah.

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[laughs] Yeah, we don't need to get into like any crazy, uh, anything too, too personal or crazy, but I couldn't help but notice. We'll talk about it.

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I never had to take like my SAT or anything like that, 'cause kind of schmoozed the high school system. Sounds like yours- Yep... was a little bit, little bit more, uh, advanced.

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Your schmoozing was a little bit more advanced than mine was. [chuckles] My schmoozing was psycho. Yeah, yeah. But, but let's get into your ChatGPT questions. Okay. Here we go. I got, uh, some rapid fire questions.

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What I did, just for all those, uh, eerie listeners out there wondering, "What does he do to come up with these questions?"

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I uploaded a transcript of the last episode and the one before it, and I'm asking it bunches of questions, and I'm trying to curate ideas that are kind of spin-offs of questions that we've discussed before.

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So now episode twenty, we got a lot of content. I have a custom GPT kind of curating content behind the scenes based on what we've talked about, and so lot of cool just rapid fire questions here. But here's my question.

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I'll start with, just go down the list. Is product or distribution more important right now?

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And I wanna, I want you to answer this question through the lens of AI startups, because we talk a lot about AI in this podcast, a lot about tech, and with all of these different, quote, "moats" being disrupted right now with AI, would you say product or distribution is more important?

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I'll give a short answer here. I think product is more important right now. It's a very interesting answer.

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Yeah, and I'm gonna tell you why, and I think it's because every single product looks exactly the same right now, and the only way to stand out is with your product.

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And I think, like, look at these AI startups and, and I'd love to hear your rebuttal here, but if you look at most AI startups that are churning at a very high churn rate, it's because people jump from one to another prospecting outbound tool, another prospecting outbound tool, and I'm keeping it very sales focused 'cause it's the world I know.

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But it's 'cause they all do the same exact thing. And so, like, I don't care how much you distribute stuff.

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If you have a piece of crap and you distribute a piece of crap everywhere, you just, you still have a piece of crap at the end of the day, right? You don't have a good product.

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And I also think it's why a lot of companies are starting to consolidate into these bigger players, because they have- Mm-hmm... good products, whether, like, regardless of if you wanna complain about it or not.

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It's like, well, dang, it works. It's already tied into everything. But who knows? Maybe I'm looking at that wrong. So it sounds like you think distribution. Would love to hear.

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I think if I had to die on a hill, I would agree with what you're saying. The, the intriguing part of this question is what a friend of mine would die on a hill saying oppositely. Yep.

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And they're an engineer, and they will, and have in conversations with me, died on this hill saying onboarding

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the product and distributing the onboarding flow matters more than the actual user experience of the product itself.

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And so they spend all their time basically vibe coding and bootstrapping all these apps and businesses where they're building these beautiful onboarding flows where you get some ad that you see on Meta or influencer you, you do see, like, on TikTok, and you see this experience that this person is doing.

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You go, you download the app, you pay some, you know, upsell in the app, but then the app itself sucks.

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You might churn, but you're growing this app because of the distribution and this, you know, this position or th- this perception that the marketing is giving that this, this- Yeah...

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onboarding experience into the app is, is incredible. So- Yeah... I don't know. It's interesting. It's- I think product ultimately is gonna be what makes it stickier.

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You know, churn is gonna be high if all you do is distribute a crappy product, but you might be able to get the first few payments from them. I don't know.

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Yeah, I, I think distribution can get you money, and I think honestly- Mm-hmm... like we, we might have fallen into that trap in at Demo in the beginning.

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It was like we were able to distribute and be everywhere, and everyone talked about us. Our churn's high. Like, to be completely transparent, our churn's high. It's because our product is not where it needs to be.

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So I think, like, I'm experiencing it, and that's why I'm like-It's gotta be product, and then I even think about Two Dads in Tech.

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Okay, great, let's say we are on TikTok, we are on Instagram, like, we have a little bit of buzz on all of them, but people go to our podcast, they're like, "Dude, this sucks." They're not gonna stay.

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They're not gon- you know? Like I, I don't know. I think that we're entering a world where, like, brand and product are becoming a thing again, and, like, becoming the only moat, because it's...

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Like, being creative is not a moat anymore. Engineering's not a moat anymore. Like, your go-to-market workflows aren't moats anymore. Where you went to school is not a moat anymore.

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Like, at the end of the day it's, like, brand, you know, product. I don't know. Yeah. That's, that's my thought. But, uh, you got some other questions here, and we have seven minutes. Yeah.

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Do you want me to ask the next one, or do you want the next one?

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I'm gonna do something out of left field here and read a tweet that I thought was incredibly illuminating from an hour ago, and it's from Jay Clouse, who's one of my favorite creators.

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Uh, he has over 100,000 subscribers on his YouTube channel. He has an incredibly successful paid private community. Uh, he writes Creator Science. Anyways, Jay Clouse tweeted this.

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He said, "I have a few rules for myself in using AI." He says, "Number one: I don't outsource what I enjoy doing. If I use AI to do things that I find joy in, what's the point?

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Number two: I don't outsource what I want to improve at. When you don't do a thing, you get worse at it. Number three: I don't outsource what makes me unique."

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He says, "AI will take a lot of work away from people, and if you become a middleman between the client and the AI, you won't stay in the middle very long." And then he goes on and says a little bit more on that.

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And then finally, "Number four: I don't outsource what I claim to do personally." He said, "There's nothing more disappointing than learning that something you admired someone for actually doing wasn't their work.

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I don't wanna create that experience." He says, "Above all, I think a lot about trust.

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The trust I've built with those who follow my work is the most valuable asset I've built in this business, and I want my use of AI to only increase trust." So I thought that was really, uh, to me, well put.

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I think a lot of people are starting to use AI with their workflows so rapidly that they're kind of skipping a step about what using AI means for their own reputation, their own brand.

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And I thought Jay thoughtfully thinking about how that affects, either good or bad, his brand by leaning into AI or choosing not to use it at all for different processes is worth the discussion. So- Yeah...

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I mean, what do you think about- It-... how that trust is, is, is built and how AI may or may not affect that trust? Yeah, so you said Jay Clouse is his name? Yeah. Okay.

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Never heard of him, but just you reading that- He's great... yeah, just you reading that, I was like, "Holy cow." Like, I never thought about it.

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Now, this guy sounds like maybe he's taking it a little too far, and, and what I mean by that is, like, if I'm... Like, something I enjoy doing is writing, right?

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Like, I actually enjoy writing now that I post on LinkedIn. I think writing's really fun. I think... I don't know. I li- I hated school. I sucked in school, but now I love writing. It's kind of weird. Yeah, yeah.

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But, like- Yeah, same...

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at the end of the day, like, I think ChatGPT is great to help me with writing, not by actually writing, but by giving me things to write about, but maybe, like, that's just ideation, and I love ideation.

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Like, I don't know.

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So I think some of that's like, okay, but you can have it help you in those areas, but, like, you s- like, let's just say, like, you go to an industry that's not super tech forward or not very progressive when it comes to technology, and you're like, "Hey, I do this work, I do this service, and I can help you out," and at the end of the day, like, ChatGPT or AI is doing 100% of it, and then you deliver that service to them and say, "Hey, here you go."

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I mean, I think that's, like, a... I think that's kinda, like, unethical and a lot of, a lot of garbage. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I know that, like, people are going to do it, right? Like, that's...

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And especially if the money's there. People are already doing it. Yeah. People are already doing it. Yeah, I mean... So, yeah. I think, I think trust is...

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I- it's the same reason why I don't think Demo or any other company out there will replace the way sales is done, especially once you start going upmarket, 'cause when I think about my time at Proofpoint, I think about all those in-person visits and sitting in a conference room and talking about problems and having somebody come in with, like, a bag of Chick-fil-A and stuff like that.

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No political stuff there, please. But anything like that, I'm like, "This c- like, s- AI will never, ever, ever replace this."

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And, like, I don't understand how people would be able to ever evaluate technology in, in the depth in which those conversations I had, but I don't know.

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Like, trust, being human, I think, will always, will always do better than AI. But who knows, dude? It's a scary world.

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We can probably build clones of ourselves on- like, at least digital clones of ourselves very soon that can analyze- Yeah... all of our internet behavior ever in the history of- Yep...

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of the internet, and then be like, "Here's Troy." So- Yes... real weird, man. Real weird. Yeah, I mean, there's already... Shout out Memelord Tech. I mean, there's already...

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He just launched last night, Jason Levine, a, a technology in the, in his meme app where you can put your face on other people's videos. It's pretty well done, and so he- Wow...

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this, this viral, uh, Rory McIlroy meme where he's celebrating, and he's, like, tearing up- Yeah... and he had just done his grand slam, and just, like, two minutes, you know, of him just walking through the galley.

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All the stuff, i- it's, like, really emotional. He put his face on it, and it, like, really looks good. I was like, "Wow." Yeah. I mean, the future is now.

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I mean, we're, we're there, and I think there's just so many, so many interesting use cases that, you know, I think it's an interesting question. Are we overthinking it, or are we underthinking it? I don't know. Yeah.

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I don't know, man. I think, I think overall, and I, I made a, a LinkedIn post about this, I think overall we're underthinking it, but who knows? We'll see. We'll see.

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But I'm gonna have to say that that concludes us there, because I gotta go for dinner. Let's go. Yeah, wait, what's your middle name? I feel it's... Wait, don't tell me. I feel it's, like, like, an Edward.

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Edward or, like, a Daniel John. It's Christian. Daniel Christian Berg. Really? Yeah. Daniel Christian Berg. DCB? That's it? Okay. DCB. Troy Douglas. I got an old man middle name. Troy Douglas Munson. Okay.

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Come on, Dougie. D-Dog. What up? Doggy. D-Dog. Yeah, Dog- hey, doggy. We should've s- [laughs] I'm gonna change my name. Dougie Munson. Ooh, that's cool. I'm gonna call you Dougie. Dougie D. Dude. Dougie D. Munson.

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That's sick. Let's go, Dougie. All right. Doggy. Dougie and Christian are logging out. [laughs] Daniel, Christian Berg, where can they find us? Twodadsintech.com. Also shop.twodadsintech.com.

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We have some sick merch, merch, merch, merch. I meant to wear it. I meant to wear it. [laughs] I know. If you wanna sponsor Two Dads in Tech, we do have some open inventory later this year. It's a great time to get in.

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We're only going up and to the right. Twodadsintech.com and Two Dads in Tech on every social platform. Find us, reach out. Looking forward to hearing from you. And we'll see y'all next week. See you next week