Ah, what's up? Welcome back to- What's good?... Another Two Dads and Tech. What's up, dude? Oh, goodness. Much. Did you hear that? Did you hear my chair kind of breaking right there? I, I, I wish I could.
Ah, man, I'm big. I'm a large man. So many wings. I actually- I wonder if that gained weight... I wonder if that gained quite a nut. Juicier too. What is it f- Is that a commercial? When in the world is that? It is.
It is a commercial from, like, the '60s. Uh, I don't know why. Interesting. I don't know why. I love the Tootsie Pop commercials. Yes. Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
To get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? I don't know. Let me see. Well, let's find out. One. One. [laughs] Two. [laughs] Three. Three. Ah, so good. Ah. Dude, oh, that's good.
Uh, [laughs] should we just end the podcast there? [laughs] Just- Could you... Wait, we should do that- That would actually be legendary... at least once. Yeah, we should. Like, 62nd episode. All right, uh- [laughs]...
find us at twodadsandtech.com. Bye. That would be very funny. I kind of, I kind of want to do that. That'd be so funny.
Um, hey, I was, uh, I was having a conversation with some friends, and he was like, "Hey, if you had an extra $30,000 to spend right now, what would you spend it on?" You don't? And I gave some bling.
[laughs] Well, no, I do. I'm, like, really rich. Um, so but for all the- Mm. [laughs] No, I was gonna say... Anyways, um, yeah, so if you had, [laughs]
if you had $30,000 right now and you could spend it on anything, it's not taxed, anything like that, what would you spend it on? I'll tell you right now. Yeah, yeah. Is that... Are you asking me? Yeah, yeah.
Like, what, what would you wanna do with it? And it doesn't need to be a trip. Like, it could be- Check it out... a car. It could be some tunes. Watch this. Watch this. Oh. Eight feet wider driveway, 10 by 12 shed,
new deck, new patio, done. [laughs] Dude, so you have a lot of house projects in mind. Because I, I need $30,000 specifically for those things. [laughs] Someone. I know what it costs. I've priced it all out.
If anyone could please Venmo me $30,000, I can finally have a wider driveway. [laughs] What's going on? Is your- Or I'd get a Jeep Wrangler. Do you have a- Our, our driveway, we have a driveway that is, like...
It's not one lane. It's a little wider than one lane. B- So it basically goes up. It's a pretty long driveway, but then it opens really wide at the top.
So you could fit, like, three cars at the top, but the problem is if you have anyone behind one of those three cars, you have to move that car all the way out of the driveway to get- Ah...
anyone else out because it's not big enough for two cars. Yeah. So I wanna widen it so that there's, like, basically two lanes.
It's not that expensive of a project, but it's like, all right, 5,000, 6,000 here, 5,000, 6,000 there, 5, 6,000. It just, all these projects.
And then another 5, $6,000 project are some really, really big trees overhanging my house that I get very annoyed by that I wanna slash. I just wanna get rid of them. Dang. Dang. So everything is- Yeah...
is- I've thought about this... it's like a f- Yeah, it's like a funnel. Your, your driveway's kinda like- I know... a funnel a little bit. Yes. Um. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. What would you- Wow, okay...
what would you do? $30,000 right now, Venmo's showed up in your account, no take backs, what are you spending on? You have 24 hours to spend it. Ooh, 24 hours to spend it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I'm going, um- I added a rule.
I added a rule. I added a rule. Yeah. No, no, I like that rule. A- a- and it disappears in 24 hours. Am I understanding that correctly? It goes ba- It goes to Daniel.
It goes to Daniel's, Daniel's Money doubles every hour you don't spend yours. All right. So- All right, all right... my incentive is to get you not to spend it in this new scenario. I added a third rule.
[laughs] No, just kidding. You have 24 hours. Spend the money. Ugh. All right, yeah, 30 hours. Honestly, I would... I feel like mine's so cliche, and I even told this to my buddy. I know.
I feel like mine's so cliche 'cause it is like I want to go take a trip and buy stuff on a trip. You're such a normie. You're such a normie. And so it, it- Where are you going? I, I... Okay, that's a good question.
I would go travel Europe. I would go travel Europe. Yeah. And I'd spend every...
But that's the thing is if it disappears in 24 hours, I'd buy the flights and everything now, book the Airbnbs, take the cash out of the ATM. Yep. Yep. And, well, I guess it's Venmo, so I can't.
I'll go get a- You're getting mugged... sign up for a Venmo card. 24 hours, doesn't matter where the money is, someone's taking it. Someone's showing up- Yeah... in a mask, and they're pickpocketing you. Yeah.
I, I would, I'd, I'd travel Europe and, uh- Dude, Europe's very- Oh, I'd have to spend 24 hours? Okay, hold on. Europe's very what? I, I, you know what? Forget, forget the rule. Just tell me what you do.
No, but- But you can, you can travel in Europe really reasonably priced. Like, I- when we- That's what I hear... lived in Spain, we went to London for a weekend.
It was $40 round trip tickets to fly to London from Madrid. $40. Wow. Less than- Wow... 100 bucks for both of us to get to and from London. Like- Yeah... unreal.
I mean, it's, like, cheaper to fly than it is to get a tank of gas. Not always- That's insane... but, like, the right flights and the right place. But, like, different country? Going from Spain to London? Yeah.
And it's 40 bucks, so I'm like, it's so inexpensive to travel there. It's unreal. That's what I hear, and as I heard spec- I heard specifically, like, Spain is a great place.
Which you ever, you would never move back, but- Maybe. No, we've talked about it. We're not in a rush to leave where we are now, but we've talked about- Yeah, of course... we, we wanna go back, uh, periodically.
So we might go back this year. We went back last year. We love- Okay... we love Madrid. We love Spain in general, the culture there. The, it's just we love the country. Yeah. That's what I hear. I have...
There's, uh, actually a girl on LinkedIn that was like, "Hey, would love to just pick your brain." Have you heard of Suji? Suji, if you listen, I don't think you do, but if you listen, what's up? Suji.
I, I don't even know- Is that-... how to spell that. I'm trying to picture the name, and I'm, it's... I may be remembering it. Okay, try to guess. Try to guess- S- S- O-... the spelling... S-O-U-G-E-E. Close. S-U-J-I.
[laughs] Not close at all. Wow, I was not close. I know. Yeah, she, she's awesome. She was actually really cool. Went to Madison, so she actually lived in Madison. I think she lives somewhere... She lives everywhere.
She was just essentially- Sure... saying, like, she's a digital nomad- Yeah... kind of person- Yeah... traveling all over.
Uh, she was like, "Spain is a great place to actually go and have a family 'cause it's cheap, and it's safe, and the culture's great, and it's welcoming," all this fun stuff.
Spain, Portugal, ItalyThree countries I, I've been to and would go back to in a heartbeat. All three of them- Yeah... have their own nuances. But I feel like if you're a digital nomad, I don't know.
I, I've never been a digital nomad. I've, I've moved around a lot.
But, like, true digital nomads, like jumping from couch to couch types of lifestyles, I feel like I've seen so many of them go through those three countries. Obviously, you've heard of, like, the Bali and- Yeah...
some of the, like, farther east countries too. But if you're going through Europe, Portugal, Italy, Spain. Amazing. Okay. That's what I hear. What's your-- What does your dream life look like?
I'd love to retire before I'm 40, but retirement is... We've talked about this in the past, but i-it's not, oh, like, stop working completely and just never lift a finger.
I think retirement for me, like, work on the things that you find value in and not be forced to work on those because you need a paycheck.
So once that happens, whether it's before I'm 40 or not, I would love to lean into community. Courtney and I, my wife, we, we love building community and, you know, we have local communities here.
We have a local business that really is built around community.
But, like, community, just doing what we think actually changes people's lives, being generous, finding needs, whether locally or globally and, and doing what we can to help meet those needs or fill in a gap.
Traveling, we love to travel. We've talked a lot in the past about having a, a kinda like a home base, and we love where we live now. So a home base would probably be where we, or at least the area we live in now.
But being able to go like, "All right, we're gonna go for three months to, you know, drop a pin, you know, on the map." And, and maybe it's to, uh, you know, we're part of a family of churches.
Maybe it's to go, you know, spend time with a church abroad, or maybe it's to just live in Europe for some time. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of things we've talked about doing.
We've talked about, uh, Courtney, especially in school, she went to school for some different things, uh, involving 501[c][3], like, nonprofit work and stuff. And so- Yeah. Yeah...
you know, we've talked about doing nonprofit, like, orphanage work, you know, abroad. I don't know. Uh- Yeah. But- I wanna do meaningful work. I think that's, that's where my heart goes.
My heart and my mind go to doing what matters and not doing what doesn't matter. I think we do a lot that doesn't matter in the, in the grand scheme of things. We
just, you and I and everyone, like [chuckles] people do things that just don't matter. I like to imagine a life where I'm not doing the things that don't matter as much as I am doing right now. Yeah. Okay.
Let's, let's get a little bit deeper on that and paint the picture here. You wake up. What's the first-- Okay, so you wake up in this dream life. What's the first thing you look at? What's the first thing you do?
Uh- In the morning. Would love to... Yeah, I mean, some of these things, I'll, I'll, I'll be the first to say are practical right now, and I should just implement them. But here's, you know, we'll set that aside.
Would love to not have to be on technology when I wake up, and not, like, immediately. Like, right now, again, don't have to do that, but, like, to go hours.
Wake up one day with the sun, circadian rhythm, and go the whole day until the afternoon without needing to check a social account or look at Slack or, you know, see if anyone got back to me in an email.
Like, the, the needs that, like, never really stop in this stage of life, whether it's the three things I just described or something adjacent to those, we're just glued and tied to technology.
But to be able to actually disconnect, but regularly as part of my lifestyle, I think that's, that's what, like, the morning looks like. You know, brew a cup of coffee, hang out, do yoga, like, meditate.
Like, the things that sound, in theory, to be relaxing and de-stressing, uh, that, that sounds, I don't know, that sounds like an ideal morning to me. Yeah. Yeah. And you would live in Charleston, you said? I don't know.
I, I mean, I think we're open to... Even when we were in Europe earlier this year, we've talked about, like, man, it would be so cool to, like, come back to Europe every year.
And we, we even, we were dr- daydreaming when we talked about this, but, like, buying property in Europe and having, like, a place to go back to that's, like, ours, where we get to know the town and the community and the people.
I think eventually something like that could, could happen. But I think there's the, the balance of, like, do we want... Like, when you buy property, you feel like you've gotta go back to that place.
But, like, there's a freedom of, like, well, we don't, we can go wherever we want. You know, just get an Airbnb for a month, and who cares where it is. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Charleston is great.
Um, but there's a lot- Yeah. I mean, the world is, the world's full of really, really cool places, and I haven't seen all of them. It is. It is. What would, what would your house look like? I always, I've always been...
Like, if you look, if you ever just, like, go on Zillow and look at, like, five, ten, fifteen million dollar houses, I actually like the very, very modern ones.
You know, there's, there's the appeal of, like- So, like, big windows, like, square kind of? Yes. Like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like- Yeah, yeah... extremely minimalist inside interior and like- Yeah...
you look at it and it almost looks like the future. Like, you look at the- Yeah... outside of the house and you're like, "Whoa, that looks like sci-fi." I love those houses.
That said, I don't know that we would agree on that type of house, but I don't know. I mean, you know, we're not, tomorrow we're not gonna buy a ten million dollar house. So it's like, I don't know. I, I like to...
We went to Costa Rica on our honeymoon now almost eight years ago, and the house we got, we rented was, like, on the side of a mountain, very remote area, overlooking the ocean.
So you were probably a quarter mile from the ocean, so it's, like, right there, but far enough away where you're actually in the mountains. I'm like, that idea... Hong Kong.
Someone, someone I work with just brought up Hong Kong. They were traveling through. They sent pictures. I went to Hong Kong about, uh, twelve years ago now, a few times, and I took this picture. I remember taking it.
If you look at Hong Kong from, like, up above, there's a few aerial shots you can get of it.
Dense city, mountains surrounding it, and then ocean, like, water, like, right in the middle, and it's, like, two islands actually, Hong Kong is.
I love the combination of that type of, like, city with water, with mountains. Seattle is similar. It's, like, very much like a city in the mountains on the water. Interesting. I don't know.
There's a lot of places like that in the world. But I love having all of it in the same place at once. It's very, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I've never been to Hong Kong.
I think-I've never even had the desire to. Should I have the desire? I kind of have it now, but- Yeah, definitely, definitely go to Hong Kong if you ever get the chance.
I, I was in China for three months the summer of 2014, and I flew through Hong Kong, so I was there for a night before I went to China, but then I went back to Hong Kong at least two or three times for, like, a few days each.
Yeah. And it's just really a very, very cool city to experience. It's a melting pot in many ways. Like- Yeah... you go to New York City, and there's, like, every culture and, and language imaginable.
Like, Hong Kong is... I- I don't wanna say it's similar to New York City, but it's, like, very much so a melting pot of culture. So it's not just, like, you go to Hong Kong, there's a bunch of people from China.
It's, like, there's people everywhere from all over the world. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's a Russian here, a German there, you know, someone from Great Britain, and then a lot of Chinese people, a lot of Japanese people.
It's like Hong Kong is just very much like a melting pot. I loved it. It was so cool. Yeah. Yeah. In this dream life, would you do something? Like, is there anything you would do every single day? The basics.
Uh, I would try to pray. I would try to meditate. I would really just try to stay grounded. Yeah. I don't know. What would I do every day? Do, do you meditate right now? I try. Yeah. Okay. So maybe- Yeah, I try...
maybe not all the time, but I actually, yesterday- I should meditate more... was the first time. Yeah, I don't know how. [laughs] I literally Googled yesterday how to meditate because I was like- Really?...
"I feel like I should meditate a little bit." Yeah, yeah. Just to kinda like clear the mind before I get my day started. Meditation... Whatever.
I've meditated more in certain stages of life than others, but, like, there's different forms of meditation. I remember doing one. During school, I took a semester off.
Technically, I was still a student, but it was, like, called a co-op, so it was like an internship where you're technically a full-time student, but you're working. I don't know why they do that.
But I worked, and I would have a 25-minute commute to work, and I was seeing a therapist at this time who was teaching me how to meditate.
And one of the forms of meditation that he had mentioned, uh, and this is a really common one, I can't remember the name of it. There's an order of operations. It's like see, sight... No.
Sight, touch, feel, smell, sound, I think. I- I'm probably botching this, but what you do is you clear your mind. Turn off music. I did it while I was driving.
Perfect world, you do it, like, in a room, but while you're driving's fine. And you go down the list of, all right, what is every single thing... You, you know, you're just brain and eyes on the road.
What is every single thing I see? And you start to just notice those things. Just see. All right, now move on to sight. Or, uh, to sound. What's everything I hear?
So you're not trying to focus too much on the things you see. Obviously, you're driving at this point. If you're not driving, you just close your eyes. What do I hear? Identify all those sounds.
What do I smell after that?
And you just go through this list, and what it's doing to your brain is it's, it's almost categorizing these senses so that you're not so distracted by all of them happening always at once, and you get better at training your mind to distinguish s- like, distinct things happening to your senses.
And it... I don't know. There's obviously science behind why you do this. Yeah, yeah. But ultimately- Yeah, yeah... it calms the mind. It, you know, slows the heart rate. It gets you to be more intentional.
Um, I found that it was just a really good way to start the day.
You know, I think work w- started at probably 8:00, so I was in the car at 7:30, and it was just a really good way to, like, start the day, to be very intentional.
You know, get your emotions in check, prepare for work in that stage of life. So I don't know. That's one form of meditation. Obviously, you got the, the om, you know, that's like a very- That's... [laughs] You know.
I don't know. Yeah. Criss cross applesauce. Cliché. Hands in the air. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, cliché, but, like, there's, there's so many different form. Prayer is a form of meditation. Um- That's what I assumed it... Yeah.
Yeah. There's, there's a lot of- It's-... a lot of ways to meditate, and a lot of studies, spiritual and science, around why people should meditate and, and the effect it has on them. Yeah, yeah.
Maybe I, maybe I should do it. I was l- literally yesterday on the StairMaster I was looking at it. Yeah. All right. And then if, if, uh... Again, back to this dream life scenario, what would you buy right now?
Take your stupid little house projects out of this. What would you buy right now that you just want because you can? Jeep Wrangler. Really? You'd be... What are you driving now? Like a sick...
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We have a Toyota Sienna, so like a van, and a, an Acura MDX, so like a seven-seater. Whoa. That's an SUV k- yeah. Yeah, and I, I mean, the, the van is... We need the van. We took a Wrangler
to the Outer Banks a few summers ago. Uh, we rented one on, like, Turo and drove it to Outer Banks, and we went to those beaches in the Outer Banks that you just drive on the beach, and it's awesome. Mm.
Ever since that, it's been maybe three years, we're like, "Oh, like, we have to buy a Wrangler." And look, I know they're not reliable. I know they cost a lot to fix. I know there's a lot of safety issues with them.
Like, I know it's not the car to get if you want, like, the best car out there, but we want one. We both want one, and we wanna be part of the club.
If you're-If you're in a Wrangler and you pass a Wrangler, like, you're, you're, you're waving at them, you're doing the little hand up on the steering wheel, like, you're nodding your head.
Like, there's a community, and when we had that Wrangler for those few days, oh, it just felt like we were part of something bigger. We were part of something bigger than ourselves. Yeah. Yeah.
[laughs] I can see you being one of those big duck guys. Yes. I feel like your Wrangler would just have ducks stacked to the door. Dude, I would buy, I would buy my own ducks. I would break all the rules.
I would get so many duck- [laughs] No, I'm just kidding. It was funny, we, we got a duck on the one that we rented, and it's like you're only supposed to give...
technically, you're only supposed to give ducks to the ones that you're like, "That is the sickest Jeep." Like, y- y- Oh, really? It's like almost a form of... Apparently.
I don't know much about it, but that's what I've heard. And so you don't just like- It's like a-...
give away ducks to anyone, and it's specifically the ones that aren't that impressive, like, they'll probably have less ducks. [laughs] So, like, one of our, my friends is, like, a Jeep, like- Big duck guy... aficionado.
Like, he's... No, it's funny, he doesn't have a ton of ducks, but he's, he's got this crazy sick Jeep from way back in the day that he knows everything about and is apparently impressive.
[laughs] But, like, no one gives him ducks 'cause it doesn't look impressive, and he's like, "All these people with a whole dashboard of ducks probably are just buying them themselves 'cause no one gives that s- me- that many ducks."
I was like, that's funny. Dude. That is funny. Where- That's a funny thing to care about... where do you, where do you think that originated from, the duck thing? Do you know? I have no idea. That's a good question.
We should ask Chat. Yeah, ask Chat. Where did the duck thing come from for Wranglers? Let's see what Chat tells us. Searching the web. The pond.
The duck thing, a trend among, among Jeep owners called Jeep ducking or duck duck Jeep. The tradition began in 2020? No. It can't be that new. No. 2020? No. This is, like, uh- BS... decades old. All right.
Unless it started in COVID. I don't know. Hold on. Let's see. No. Dude, Chat, when did the duck Jeep- Maybe they don't think... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Thing start Someone tell us.
Someone reach out to me. 2020 in Ontario, Canada. It can't be. It can't be true. What? It can't be true. It said it started back in 2020 during COVID. All it took was for one Jeep owner named Allison Parliament to...
Oh, I'm chewing something. Can you tell? Yes, I can. Uh... Very loud. Please stop. Let's see. Uh, let's see here. Everyone- Story behind the Jeep ducks. It actually started in 2020. That- What? That has to be wrong.
Dude. That's cra- and then one person, I wanna know how this started, but it took me to a Facebook post, and I can't find it. I'm, I'm reading- Um-... something on, on Jeep Chrysler
that says the practice of Jeep ducking originated in a small town in Canada in 2020. Damn. Dude.
Allison Parliament from Ontario randomly bought a bunch of rubber ducks from a convenience store and gave one to another Jeep owner with a note that said, "Have a great day."
The intent was to bring a smile to the individual and spread a little cheer that we all needed during the pandemic. This small interaction turned out much better than expected.
The Jeep owner walked out of the store, was confused when he saw a rubber duck being placed in his Jeep, however, after reading the note that was left behind, left a huge smile on his face.
That night, #duckduckjeep was born after being posted on Instagram, and the rest is history. Five years ago? What? I would've bet money that that was not true. I need someone who's a Jeep just, like- Just a, a Jeep-...
savant- Yeah. [laughs]... to tell me this is wrong. Please. Like, please hit me up and be like, "No, no, no. That is fake news. It started way before that." But, like- Dude...
this is, this is, until proven otherwise, it's a five-year-old trend. So- That is-... that's pretty cool. That's crazy. Yeah, I would've guessed- Yeah... 1989 maybe. You know?
Like, something crazy like that- Yeah, forever ago... where it's just been- Yeah... for... Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Well, Allison Parliament, I know you're probably listening.
Good stuff starting duck, duck, Jeep. I know. She's our biggest fan, Alice- Allison Parliament. [laughs] She does not stop messaging us about loving our episodes. Um, anyways, that's awesome.
That is, that is so, so cool. But- Yeah... okay, we're, we're, like... Okay, you have all this money in the world. What trip would you take? What's the number one trip you wanna go on?
Um, well, if I bought the Jeep, I would probably drive it- No, take the Jeep out... somewhere. Okay, take the Jeep out. I would love to go to Tokyo. That's the- Ooh. Like- Really?...
in this current stage of life, the most exotic and also difficult place to get to. Yeah. Like, Europe, very easy to travel to Europe comparatively. Yeah, yeah. Comparatively. It's not easy. For sure.
But, like, comparatively, the time difference is six, seven hours. The time in the plane is, you know, eight, give or take. It- it's just easier transition.
Going anywhere in Asia is just way harder on the kids especially because of the 12-plus hour time difference, all that stuff. But I've also never been to Tokyo, and I would absolutely love to go.
I'm a big anime guy, so I watch a lot of anime. I love Japanese culture, love listening to Japanese. I don't know how to speak it at all, but I love the sound of the language, and I would just love to go.
The history of Japan is something that's very fascinating to me. I'd love to go someday. Wow. I mean, J- Tokyo just sounds like such a cool city to go to, so yeah.
I feel like, I feel like I would love to go there alone, and maybe that's a really bad thing to say. That'd be cool. And I think I, I think I say that 'cause my wife has zero interest. I've talked about it. Really?
Like, would you ever want to go to Japan? And she's like- Yeah... "That's not for me." We're, we're a put us in the mountains or put us on the water kinda people. Yeah. Yeah.
However, I feel like that'd be a really cool trip. I mean, there are, there are mountains and water in Japan, just so we're all on the same page. Yeah, but I'm thinking of Tokyo specifically. Um- Yeah. Yeah. And- Fair.
Fair enough... I don't know. So when I'm thinking of it, I'm like, eh, I think, like, it would be a really cool trip to just go learn the culture.
Uh, of course, it'd be great to go with, like, your family and stuff, but, like, sit there and go for a week or two just by yourself and just learn everything, eat whatever, have no worries in the world. Yeah.
I feel like that would be really cool.
Obviously, like, logistically for my life, that makes zero sense, and I would never do that, but I can't imagine dragging my 11-month-old and four-year-old around Tokyo right now for a very extended period of time.
Yeah, I think the, the reason we like-S- Spain so much is 'cause we both speak Spanish, my wife a lot more than myself. So even in remote parts of Spain, like we're, we're fine. We'll get by. Yeah.
Japan, obviously in the bigger cities, people are gonna speak English. It's gonna be fine.
But if you were to travel outside of that at all, like there's nothing to fall back on if you happen to be somewhere where there's not much English speaking. I remember experiencing this in China.
I was in Guangzhou, where there's plenty of English speakers. But I traveled
way out west into the Yunnan province and, you know, Jiangxi, and like all over the place in China, where there was very little English speaking.
And it didn't occur to me that I had learned some Chinese before going there, and I, I was conversational.
I could get by, but there are dialects in China, so learning Mandarin Chinese in one specific way and not understanding the accent that someone in a different area of China might bring to Mandarin Chinese, oh, dude, unbelievably difficult.
So I would... You just drop me somewhere 30 hours away from South China, and I'm like, I can't... I couldn't understand a single thing they were saying. And I was stuck- Really?... a number of times- Yeah...
like in the middle of nowhere. Like, I just have to figure this out. Uh, that's a fun situation to be in as a 21-year-old who- Yeah... speaks enough Chinese to get by but is American-learned Chinese. Yeah.
I mean- Yeah... dude, what a... It was, it was fun, though. I was single guy, didn't have a family, you know, full of life. It was, it was a fun time of life. You live such a unique life. Like what? Yeah, it's been fun.
Like what were you doing over there [laughs] and why? Um, a number of things. I taught English. Um- Okay...
which I self-supported myself to move there for three months, taught English to recoup some of the money at the end, and I was helping a church.
It was like an underground church over there, um, that I was doing like mission work with, which was pretty cool.
Uh, very illegal to do that in the way that I was doing it because China has two, at least back then, has two specific churches that are China-governed and- Yeah, yeah...
Christian, Christian churches that are China governed. If you are part of those two churches, you're good. If you're not part of those two, you're breaking the law. Um, a lot of reasons- Huh...
why I helped an underground church there, but many of the, you know, non-denominational Christian churches in China are technically underground, some more than others.
And so it was, it was a cool experience, mission work, doing something like that in China. Um, and then also just alongside learning Chinese in school was a very cool way to like put some of that to practice. Um- Yeah.
That's so cool... any way you can put yourself in a culture fully immersed is, I will die by this, is the way to learn a language. I mean, I've learned book languages.
I've learned German, Hebrew, Chinese, Spanish, and obviously English. I've learned technically all of those languages in school professionally, some more than others.
Spanish, learning it in Spain for a year, Chinese, learning it in China for three months, it just, it like 10Xs your- Yeah, so different. Yeah... ability to comprehend. There's really just no comparison.
So people like are all about like Duolingo and stuff. I'm like, whatever.
I mean, you're probably learning vocabulary, some pronunciation, but like I have yet to experience a single case ever of someone who went from zero to Duolingo, drop them in the middle of a foreign country, and actually have conversations.
Have to get by. Yeah, yeah.
[laughs] Like, maybe you can hear specific vocabulary and understand a little bit about what people are saying, but the types of things that you don't get until you're in real situations in another country,
I mean, it's like embarrassing. Like- Yeah. Yeah, yeah... Duolingo is, is, is a fun, it's a fun thing. It- it's fun to brag to your American friends. You're learning something. It's gimmicky. Yeah.
It's, "Whoa, I'm level..." You're like, "Yo, look at this. I can speak Chinese." "... 760 on my Duolingo streak." Like- I mean, who cares? Yeah. Like you're not, that's not doing anything. Yeah, yeah.
But like good for you, you know, but I think that's all it is. It's like a game. Yeah. You're learning something, but it's not actually learning a language. Yeah.
You're a good man, man, for all the work that you've, that you've done. Do you think, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, do you think that you would be upset
if one or both of your kids grew up and they were like, "Dad, I don't think religion is for me"? No, not upset. Do you think you would have- Sad... failed? Would you feel failed, like that you failed? No. Okay. No.
Courtney and I, we want to do our best to display our own values and- Yeah... to bring up our kids, uh, with those values. But- Yeah, yeah... the way that I view Christianity is that it is a personal choice.
I grew up going to church, but I d- did not consider myself a Christian until I chose to be one as I was 15, still very young, but that was my choice.
It's not my parents' choice, and the same way that I'm raising my kids, it's not...
Like they're not Christians until they choose one day to be one or not, and that's their choice, and I'll influence that choice as their dad, but I won't force them to do anything.
I mean, it just, that's the antithesis of what I believe the Bible teaches about following Jesus, is that y- you don't force people to do it.
I also don't expect people to live like a Christian when they don't say they are a Christian. I think that's what a lot of people get wrong about religion in general. I've studied at the graduate level.
I've studied many different world religions, Islam, Judaism. You know, that's why I learned Hebrew.
Uh, I have a long line of people who were Jewish in my family, so like a lot of family history there as well, and I think history shows that when you expect a person to live the way that you believe people should live, when they don't believe that, it always turns into some kind of catastrophic war.
Uh, you just don't... I don't believe anyone should live a certain way unless they want to. Yeah. Yeah. So I live a certain way, and I try to have values and display those values and try to be- Yeah, yeah...
a good person, and I have a lot of different diagrams of what I think that looks like based on my own belief system. But, I mean- Yeah... my, my kids have to decide that for themselves. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's, that's what I believe deeply.Nice. You know, I've always wanted to ask you that for, like, a year now. Which, by the way- I am- This might be coming up on a year. [laughs] I'm not closed off.
I mean, you ask me any questions. I believe also there, there's a scripture that says, "Always be prepared to give an answer."
That's, that's what I, I always, I always try to answer any question someone asks me, and sometimes I'm not prepared. Yeah. Yeah. You can throw me off.
I'm sure if you ask enough questions, eventually I'll be like, "I have no idea how to answer that." But- Yeah...
that's part of why I studied culture in school and got degrees in history and philosophy and theology, is because I want to be able to uniquely interact with people of any different background or culture or religion, because I think that's how the world becomes a better place.
I think too many people are too closed off and wanna only interact with people who are like them. And if you look at history, that, that is just a dangerous ideology. It is.
Anyone who is refusing to interact with or love those who are not like themselves is a, a typically a one-way track to danger. That
nothing makes me more irrationally mad than people that will only- But rationally, I think. I don't think it's irrational. But- I think that should upset you.
But, but, but it's a, but it's irrational because I shouldn't care what somebody else lives by and what they think and what they believe in and who they choose to- Sure... interact with, right?
So like- I hear what you're saying. But like, ugh, yeah. When it's like, I don't even wanna get too far into it, but when anybody is just, they think this way, I will never be their friend or I'll never respect them.
I'll, you know- Yeah... whatever it might be. Like, come on. The world's- I- The world's too beautiful for stuff like that. Yes.
There are two things that I've heard said before, I think possibly by the same person, but I can't remember. One of them is, "I reserve the right to change my mind on this opinion."
And I've always tried my very best when expressing an opinion I have or a belief system that I've adopted to do it all through that lens. I reserve the right to change my mind on this opinion. Yeah. Yeah.
Because you learn new things every day. Yeah. You learn new things every day. And at, at some point there might be something that shows me something more about something I believe that changes my opinion on that thing.
So that's the, that's the first thing. The second thing is I try to believe the best in people until they show me I should believe otherwise. I think that is the opposite of how most people live their lives.
I think most people assume the worst. I think most people assume people are bad people. Most people assume people are up to no good, have malice, deceit, whatever. And unfortunately, many people do.
I mean, the reality is- Yeah... many people are not- Absolutely... quote, good people.
But when I'm confronted in a one-on-one situation with someone who tells me something about themselves or something about their universe, I choose to assume they're telling me the truth, that they are honest people, that they are good, again, until it is obvious to me, not what I've heard or what I've seen in the grapevine, like to me personally, that that is not the case.
I think people actually act and behave better when given the benefit of the doubt. I don't think... People don't get the benefit of the doubt as much as I think they should. And I think- Yeah...
again, this is all, I think, just the world would be a better place if more people gave others better benefits of the doubt and second chances and assumed the best in people instead of the worst. Yeah.
Yeah, I think I always heard, I don't know where it was from, but just the, the phrase, "Assume positive intent." Um, so if somebody even does do something- Yes, assume positive intent... you, yeah.
So I've always kind of lived by that. I'm, and I'm the same way, and I think, I don't know, I... Yeah, I just think that there's [laughs]... I don't know. I think the same way.
I'm just trying to think of like when I go out and meet people, random people, I, yeah, I always assume like, "Oh, this, this is a great person. This is a good guy." Yeah. And maybe they're not, right?
Maybe they're doing so many other things that are horrible below the surface- Well-... that I don't know about, but... assuming the best in people or assuming positive intent doesn't mean being stupid either. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, you think, you and I are both parents, and if we're out in public and you need to use the bathroom, something you don't do is ask a stranger to watch your kids while you go to the bathroom.
Well, I assume the positive intent, like everyone's fine. I assume they're gonna be fine. No, you don't do that. That's stupid. It's not, you should be more trusting of strangers.
It's, do not leave your kids with a stranger. [laughs] That's- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So there's like, there's, there's boundaries that you draw still.
But, you know, if I'm working at a coffee shop and I have to go to the bathroom, depending on where I am, I, I may leave my laptop there. Usually I don't.
But I think I'm aware that in most cases, if I were to just tap the guy next to me and say, "Hey, I gotta run to the bathroom real quick. Can you watch my stuff?"
99% of the time that person would be like, "Yeah, sure, for sure." Like, totally fine. Like- Yeah... what? You're gonna just- Yep...
happen to ask a thief to watch your stuff, who's gonna take that 30-second opportunity to steal all your things? Like, the odds are slim.
More people are willing to be good people than people who are willing to be bad, so. No. Yeah. Yeah. All- That was- Very interesting conversation. That was, that was beautifully said. That was beautifully said.
You're good at that. [laughs] You're, you're good at explaining things. [laughs] You're so good. That's why I do- You're so good at speak. You're so good, you're so good at explaining. You so speak good.
[laughs] Thank you. Oh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. What do you have for me? I just asked you a ton of questions. Let, let me hear you one off rip. I came- I do, [laughs] I know, I know. I came unprepared.
I came unprepared. I gotta, I do gotta jump a little early. I have to, have to jump on a call- That's fine... in 10 minutes on the road. 20 minutes, but, um, yeah. What would you do if your kids decided to be religious?
Yeah, yeah. And so for, I, I haven't ever once spoke about religion on this podcast 'cause I don't care to. Um, but I'm not, I'm definitely, I'm not, like I did not grow up in a religious household, right? Right.
So I, all my extended family outside of my household family is all religious. My direct family, not religious. We never went to church.
So I didn't grow up on it, so I never have attem- Actually, I attempted in college when I was dating a girl who was very religious, old school Catholic.
Kind of, kind of like threw me off a little bit, going to a very old school Catholic church, and it was very foreign. Yeah. And I was like, "Whoa." [laughs]What was that? And there's nothing against it. I just...
It's literally like going to a country and somebody's talking to you- It is different... and you don't know what they're saying. Yes. And I'm like, "Whoa, I don't know what you- If you've never been to a mass.
I don't know what I'm-" Yeah. Yeah. It's very different. So anyways, I don't care. Be religious. Are you kidding me? My, my sons- Yeah... can do whatever the... Kinda like to your point, they can do- Yeah...
whatever they want. And I even tell people, like, I'm not, I'm not against learning about it. Like, I don't hate it.
Like, there's a lot of people out there that, that are very science-based and they're like, "Oh, you're dumb for thinking Jesus is real," like that kind...
I, I g- I think I purposely neglect conversations around it, so I don't ever- Yeah... have to think about it. And I think I do that- It's fair... with many topics in life, to be honest.
When I don't want to think about something or I don't believe... Yeah, if I don't wanna put the brain power behind a specific topic, I'm like, yeah, I just won't even think about it, you know? Why do you think that is?
I avoid conflict. That's my biggest red flag, and I tell everybody that. Um, I hate conflict. I hate anything about like... Yeah, just anything about... I hate negative vibes. I really hate negative vibes.
And so, like, I'm not saying that there always needs to be a negative vibe with conflict. I don't think that's true at all.
I think there's very healthy conflict that you can have, and I think I need to indulge into more of those, into more of those conversations 'cause I don't have them enough.
But I'm definitely, like, just give me, like, happy... Like, b- I just wanna smile and be happy and not serious all the time. And so, like, that's just who- Yeah... just who I am. And so I think I purposely avoid it.
And so f- I'll give you a good example. My mom is the same way, and I definitely learned it from her, and I wish I did not, for sure. This is the one thing I wish that I was not like is where I avoid conflict.
But we went to Chicago, and I hope she doesn't listen to this, but we [laughs] went to Chicago. Lovely. She's lovely. She, you know, paid for the Airbnb and stuff like that. We were there for a handful of days.
And she wasn't being as helpful as I would've wished, and I, I let her know, but I had never once let her know that, even though that is a talking point, where it's like, you know, we're flying out to Dallas, we're spending $1,200- Yeah...
to get there. We're getting your car... Like, come on, get, like, help us out a little bit, right? And so- Yeah... wasn't very helpful. There's... It's the most stressful trip I've ever had.
There was just times where, you know, we're at dinner and the kids are losing it, and it's me having to calm them down. I'm like, "Come on, Grandma, please. Help. I need you." Yeah.
So then I, I finally got to the point where I just, like, tapped her on the shoulder and I said, "I need you to do more." And then I kinda just walked. She didn't say anything 'cause she hates conflict, too.
She would never once be like, "Well, why do you think that is?" Or like, "I'm sorry" or da. It was just quiet. Nothing. And so I grew up in a household like that.
Anytime that there was conflict, you just didn't talk about it. You swept it under the rug. So I avoid all conversations that make me, I wouldn't say uncomfortable, but conversations I don't want to have. Yeah.
That's Troy, everybody. It's my red flag. My wife always talks to me, "You need to open up more." And I'm like, "Eh, do I?" [laughs] I think- Uh... you are probably not unique in that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I think most people learn from a very early age to protect themselves from being in situations that require discomfort. Yeah, yeah. And the questions of life require being uncomfortable. Yeah. What happens when you die?
Yeah. Does all of this actually exist? Is heaven and hell real? Like, those are questions that most people avoid asking and answering. The easiest way is to just say no to all of it.
A lot of people won't actually put their foot down and say, "I will argue that this is no, and here is why," because they've never thought that much about it.
So I think the, the, the big questions of what is the meaning of life, that's easy to avoid because they're huge questions, very overwhelming. Yeah.
But the trickling effects of, well, I just don't like, uh, having any uncomfortable conversation about what meaning of life is and what I should be doing in the 12 to 16 hours a day I have awake and all these different things, you know, it's...
You're not alone. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No one wants to put themselves in a situation that requires discomfort. But I think there's, there's ways you can learn how to ask and deal with some of those questions.
Not that you have to. I mean, you're, you're your own adult man. You don't have to do anything different than what you've done the last 30-odd years, but- [laughs] Yeah, no...
you can definitely, you can definitely have conversations about that- [laughs]... and figure out how to deal with it. Yeah. Do you think...
Uh, here's a, here's a question I've always had, and maybe this is for a different episode. It's more on the religious side. Do you th- Uh, maybe it is. Let's, let's leave off with this. Do you- Bring it up. Bring it up.
Let's do a cliffhanger. I will. I will, but because I ha- Yeah, exactly. This will be...
There's so many different religions out there, and many of them believe in different things, or maybe one religion has many gods and multiple gods. And in Christianity, there's like...
Maybe I'm wrong about this 'cause, again, I'm not educated about it, but there's, like, one God- Sure... and things like that. So i- let's just say, okay, let's just say God put us all on this Earth.
Why do so many different religions believe different things? And a lot of them are somewhat conflicting and contradicting.
So do you believe that there's one, and maybe because you're a Christian you do, but, but that there's one specific religion that you have to be to follow God? Or, or like... You know what I'm trying to say?
I don't know how to ask it. Yes. But I always wonder, like- I will-... if it's true-... offline I will, I will help you ask the question more concisely, and we can have that conversation.
That's a, that's a very good question. Man, I think that should be the next episode, to be honest. Um, like I think people- We can talk about it...
'cause a lot of people are i- in my shoes, where they just grew up not religious, and they're like, "Ugh, I don't really care about it." Then there's people that are like- Yeah... "Religion is dumb."
And then there's people, of course like you, where it's like, "No, like, I choose this life because of X, Y, and Z." And I think it would be really interesting. We need a...
[laughs] Maybe we need somebody on this pod where it's like, "I'm anti-religion," and it's just like, "Let's just talk." [laughs] Let's just all three talk. Sure. Um, but- Yeah, I think those are- Yeah. [laughs]...
those are very engaging conversations. Yeah. I mean, there's really just a, there's a, a library and encyclopedia of directions we could take that conversation, but it's a great question.
And, and to anyone here- And with that-... that's... Wait. Yes. To anyone listening that is religious, pardon my stupidity. I just, again, I didn't grow up religious. But it's not stupidity.
But no, no, look, most of the planet has those questions and either never asks them or has never gotten a good answer to them. Yeah. So I think you're, you're, you're, you're not stupid.
I think those are very valid questions to ask. With that, [laughs] now you can get into- Where do they find us, Two, Two Dads in Tech, Troy? Uh, yeah, twodadsintech.com.
And I noticed that your name on this just says Two Dads in Tech. [laughs] I know. I know. And not Daniel. Uh, it's funny. Yeah, it doesn't show up- But it doesn't show up on the recording, so who cares? It doesn't.
Twodadsintech.com. Uh, go there. All of our podcast episodes are there, our YouTube episodes, things like that. And then from there, what really helps us is five stars on Apple- Yes, it does... and Spotify.
Like, it really, really helps us, so if you've gotten here 43 minutes in, I'd greatly appreciate if you spent the next five seconds just giving us five stars. Uh, YouTube, hit Subscribe. We just crossed 700 subscribers.
Daniel and I are both a little upset that it took us this long to get to 700, but I also think it falls on us and, you know, how much we promote it- Yes, it does... and stuff like that.
So, uh, at the end of the day, go hit Subscribe as well. Really helps us. Other than that, see you next week. Awesome. See you next week.