WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:17.720 [upbeat music] It's Quinn. Maybe you're like me, and sometimes you just spiral out, not just because everything is a lot all of the time, but because some part of you actually wants to do something about it. 2 00:00:18.220 --> 00:00:31.660 But, I mean, holy shit, where to start, right? Great news. We built an app for that. It's called What Can I Do? Even better news, it's free and it's fast. It takes just three clicks to start unfucking the world. 3 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:35.540 Visit whatcanido.earth to get started for free. 4 00:00:36.080 --> 00:00:57.600 [upbeat music] Chronically parched is not something anyone in this country or anywhere should ever have to feel, but here we are. 5 00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:08.860 So how are towns and states making clean water more affordable, reliable, and less controversial? 'Cause remember, it's fucking water. Look, you might feel like 6 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:13.220 you're giving it all you got, but when you look around, things are a little dark out there. 7 00:01:13.880 --> 00:01:26.040 So you, our listeners and readers and viewers and users, whatever, across the world, want and demand more examples of fight and progress you can see, touch, feel, taste. 8 00:01:26.660 --> 00:01:35.640 And in these conversations, in this special series, in our partnership with our best friends at Run for Something, we're gonna do that. We're giving you exactly what you asked for. 9 00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:46.600 Each of these episodes features two guests, both sourced from the Run for Something pipeline and graduating classes, so the next real generation of US leaders all across the country. 10 00:01:47.080 --> 00:01:59.520 First, I'll introduce one young elected official at the state or local level who has actually made real measurable progress on an issue facing more Americans than ever before, but something that you'll notice. 11 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:16.700 And then in the same episode, after that, I'll introduce a bright-eyed candidate who's currently running for state legislature, for mayor, for city council, or for school board, who is similarly hell-bent on attacking the same issue in their own hometown or their state. 12 00:02:17.220 --> 00:02:22.760 And for all you know, one of these could be in yours or near yours or just have lessons that apply to yours. 13 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:43.760 So you and I are gonna find out together at the same time, live, what they're working on and why, where they've actually made measurable progress, where they've struggled, 'cause that matters, and how their exact tactics and strategies can be adopted and transferred to other schools and school districts, towns, cities, and states across the country. 14 00:02:43.780 --> 00:02:55.120 I do have a request, though. If these conversations inspire you in any way, please do two things today, 'cause remember, these folks are only part of the thing. You gotta do your part. 15 00:02:55.440 --> 00:03:07.750 Number one, find out what office you or some actual young person you love and respect can run for at runforwhat.net. You would be surprised at how many amazing offices go uncontested in this country. 16 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:19.980 Number two, please find and support incredible candidates endorsed by Run for Something and other amazing organizations we love at whatcanido.earth. And last, there is a third thing. Please share these. 17 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:32.500 Sure, you can give us a five-star review if you'd like, but also share these with somebody who might be into, for example, water. Because if you need this, and I need this, many more people need these conversations. 18 00:03:32.950 --> 00:03:43.680 So first off today, a little context for our topic, drinking water. You think it wouldn't be complicated or controversial, but remember, folks, bad guys are real. 19 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:49.680 So there is a lot of progress being made, even in the age of climate change and floods and all that. 20 00:03:49.700 --> 00:04:02.730 And the folks I've got on the show today are doing it in their districts, or they're running to, and they also have lessons for yours. Both of our folks today are from Michigan, no stranger to water issues. 21 00:04:03.040 --> 00:04:05.240 Introducing our incumbent. State Rep. 22 00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:16.880 Laurie Pohutsky is a Michigan-born millennial microbiologist serving her fourth term in the Michigan House of Representatives, where she serves on the Oversight Committee and is the chair of the Progressive Women's Coalition. 23 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:28.600 Laurie's mom was a nurse, and her dad was a teamster, and that's basically all I need to know, but I'll give you some more detail. Laurie sponsored legislation that became Michigan's Clean Energy and Jobs Act of 2023. 24 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:42.210 She is the co-sponsor of legislation to make polluters pay, which is always great, and to amend Michigan's Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, which focuses on environmental cleanup standards and procedures, which would be stellar since, 25 00:04:43.220 --> 00:04:49.760 as you know, the EPA has, you know, basically been abolished. Anyways, more good news. Let's talk to our candidate. 26 00:04:50.060 --> 00:04:58.830 Denzel McCampbell is a fine young community advocate and native Detroiter living and running for Detroit City Council District 7. 27 00:04:59.620 --> 00:05:03.940 Denzel was born and raised in the East Side and is a graduate of Michigan State University. 28 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:11.600 He is dedicated to public service, to fighting day in and day out to increase access to democracy and representation for marginalized groups. 29 00:05:11.900 --> 00:05:35.360 He believes the Detroit city government, of which he would like to be part again, should be a responsive government that uses its resources to ensure that every neighborhood is well-resourced and that every resident is able to have the fundamentals, adequate and truly affordable housing, public transportation, and access to water and opportunities and things like that to improve their lives and have their basic needs met. 30 00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:44.900 Denzel has deep knowledge and experience in organizing and advocating and working on all levels of government to affect change for his community. So there we go. 31 00:05:45.460 --> 00:05:54.500 Two amazing humans fighting for water and fighting for everything else. Let's find out what it means for their hometowns, for Michigan, and for yours. 32 00:05:56.219 --> 00:06:12.776 [upbeat music]Lori Podvesky, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us today on, like, our seventh version of audiovisual equipment. It's working. 33 00:06:12.916 --> 00:06:22.616 We got it Lori, correct me if I'm wrong, you are in your fourth term of Michigan House of Representatives? That's exciting. That's very exciting. Nothing has happened in those four terms. 34 00:06:22.676 --> 00:06:36.116 It's been totally boring out there. Could you tell us a little bit about your district? Yeah, absolutely. So currently, my district is a portion of Northwest Detroit, North Redford Township, which is a suburb. 35 00:06:36.236 --> 00:06:45.836 Even just a little further outside, I have Northeast Livonia. So the district itself stretches from a pretty urban area to a more suburban area. 36 00:06:46.296 --> 00:06:58.856 When I first ran and first got acquainted with Run for Something, I was running in a extremely gerrymandered district. It was just the city of Livonia, minus one square mile. Sure. Why not? 37 00:06:59.026 --> 00:07:08.126 And it had been Republican-held for quite some time. That seat, I ended up flipping it with a whole lot of help. We only flipped it by two hundred and twenty-seven votes. 38 00:07:08.485 --> 00:07:14.796 So, you know, when folks talk about, you know, "Oh, I feel like I'm not making an impact," I wouldn't be here talking to you if people didn't make an impact. 39 00:07:14.876 --> 00:07:25.646 Because when you look at those numbers, like, every single piece of outreach that someone did in their spare time made that possible. Yeah, a hundred percent. We were just handing out... We've a few 40 00:07:26.636 --> 00:07:37.666 gated communities here that are very obnoxious about door knocking and things like that, and a gentleman running for school board who's working with Run for Something, good guy, and this one community just won't let him in. 41 00:07:37.776 --> 00:07:44.506 And so we found some good neighbor friends that are in there and just gave them a bunch of stuff and said, "Just incognito, middle of the night, go drop these on doorsteps." 42 00:07:44.556 --> 00:07:50.446 Because like you said, two hundred and twenty-seven votes, everyone counts. I mean, Virginia, what was that? I was still in Los Angeles, I think. 43 00:07:50.536 --> 00:07:59.776 I feel like s- it was, like, six, seven years ago, they, like, took-- pulled a name out of a hat or some shit because [chuckles] it was, like, one, one vote. Yes. Everything is working exactly as it's supposed to, Lori. 44 00:08:00.196 --> 00:08:12.755 [laughs] All right, so like I mentioned to you, the other voice our listeners will hear from today is Denzel McCampbell, who's running for Detroit City Council. Fabulous gentleman. Tell me, you are a... 45 00:08:12.796 --> 00:08:21.866 I believe [chuckles] there was a description online as the, the millennial m- microbiologist. Is that right? That's a great handle. Why did you run for office? I got pissed off. 46 00:08:21.976 --> 00:08:27.716 There's a bit of a more articulate backstory there, but I was really just pissed off coming out of the twenty sixteen election cycle. 47 00:08:28.556 --> 00:08:37.256 I am a queer woman who believes I should have bodily autonomy, and I'm a scientist, and all of those things were kind of coming under attack. 48 00:08:38.076 --> 00:08:45.196 I, like a lot of people, I think, started paying more attention to more local levels of politics and government, namely the state legislature. 49 00:08:45.746 --> 00:09:00.816 And I saw that there were a lot of policies coming out of Lansing that had a basis in science, be that environmental, healthcare-related, but no one really there to advocate for those scientific perspectives because there were no scientists. 50 00:09:01.016 --> 00:09:12.886 Mm-hmm. So I l- with all of the hubris I could muster, was like, "Well, I'm just gonna run, and, you know, we'll see what happens." And I really didn't think that I was going to win, in all honesty. Mm-hmm. 51 00:09:12.896 --> 00:09:24.426 I thought I might move the needle a little bit. But I did win, and I got on some really cool, important committees from my perspective in my first term. And also, COVID ended up hitting in my first term. Mm-hmm. 52 00:09:24.456 --> 00:09:36.016 So I think that perspective ended up being a little bit more useful than I, I originally planned on. I've got a lot of questions, but mostly it really speaks to representation, doesn't it? 53 00:09:36.076 --> 00:09:44.656 You know, it's like there were no scientists. Great. It's just like how we don't have any teachers. I think we've got, like, one nurse in the US Hou- House of Representatives. Yeah, it matters. 54 00:09:44.816 --> 00:09:52.795 So thank you for doing that. It's very helpful. So talk to me about how you got hooked up with our good friends at Run for Something, and then we're gonna get into water here. 55 00:09:53.556 --> 00:09:55.516 I was looking for all of the help I could get. 56 00:09:56.096 --> 00:10:15.316 I had no experience running for any type of office, so I was applying for all of the trainings I could, all of the, you know, orgs that were willing to help young progressive candidates, uh, could get their foot in the door and get some education going and get some resources, and I was also in a really competitive primary. 57 00:10:15.856 --> 00:10:22.896 My opponent was also endorsed by Run for Something, and he and I get along fantastically, so there's no bad blood there or anything. 58 00:10:22.906 --> 00:10:32.696 But what I really appreciated was, you know, it was a really competitive primary, so a lot of people that got involved were like, "Oh, y- it's one or the other. It cannot be both." Mm-hmm. 59 00:10:32.796 --> 00:10:39.836 And that's not what Run for Something did. They were like, "Look, we want representation that both of you can bring." Sure. 60 00:10:39.926 --> 00:10:46.136 "So let's try and do everything we can to support both of you in whatever you need, because you probably have different needs right now." Yeah. 61 00:10:46.206 --> 00:10:54.896 And they were very interested in my story and why I wanted to run and represent people and the perspective I could bring, and it was just... It was immensely helpful. 62 00:10:54.936 --> 00:11:08.206 There were so many questions that I, you know, felt dumb asking, but got immediate help with, and obviously, you know, fundraising support, connections with better ways to recruit, like, people power too, which was so, so helpful. 63 00:11:08.496 --> 00:11:17.196 It's interesting because, like you said, I love the idea that they and you and your opponent were good sports about the whole thing, because it's like we gotta do all the things. Yeah. 64 00:11:17.206 --> 00:11:24.935 So w- like, why are we picking and choosing now? Which I understand. That's obviously [chuckles] what a primary is for. We don't shy away from how the political sausage is made here. 65 00:11:25.236 --> 00:11:27.086 But it's gotta be something, you know? Right. 66 00:11:27.136 --> 00:11:39.616 We've gotta do what we can to keep pushing and keep pushing, and that's what I think A- Amanda Lemmon and I are on the same page most of the time, which is, like, rage texting about our idealism, but at the same time, like, we'll take every step we can get along the way. 67 00:11:39.626 --> 00:11:44.396 Yeah. And that includes just getting more and more folks like yourself in there, so that's really great. 68 00:11:44.806 --> 00:12:02.776 So you came back to this idea of there's a lot of science-based stuff coming out of the state legislature, which, you know, as I'm sure you're aware, like you said, you became more aware of that there is a state legislature and how they operate, and a lot of folks in the past 10 years have had that same awakening for a variety of reasons. 69 00:12:03.036 --> 00:12:10.386 You know, all the trigger laws that kicked in the minute Roe v. Wade was turned down, and people realized some of these laws have been under the books for a hundred years, and they go, "Who made those?" 70 00:12:10.436 --> 00:12:13.096 And you go, "Well, congrats. It's your state legislatures." 71 00:12:13.176 --> 00:12:21.481 And-If you're a person who's been yelling at people to get involved on the state and local level for a long time, you don't wanna say, "I told you so," but you're also like, "Welcome. Let's do this." Yes. 72 00:12:21.492 --> 00:12:29.752 And now obviously more than ever, that is instrumental 'cause it's kind of all we've got in a lot of ways. So really helpful that you started before that. 73 00:12:30.252 --> 00:12:38.772 But you said there's a lot of science-based stuff coming out, and it's interesting. We kinda same time early COVID like came up with this fun little tagline called Science for People Who Give a Shit. 74 00:12:39.512 --> 00:12:41.352 And there's two things there. 75 00:12:42.132 --> 00:12:55.292 One, for better or worse, and I feel like I say this a lot, because of COVID, and climate, and all these different things, and poverty, and our housing crisis, there's a lot more people that give a shit, fortunately and unfortunately, than ever before, so we try to reach them. 76 00:12:55.592 --> 00:13:06.692 But at the same time, science is everything at this point, right? I mean, it, it's in everything, you know, and everyone became an amateur scientist in the past five years, again, for better or worse. 77 00:13:07.072 --> 00:13:24.652 But we're understanding that there's like fundamental pieces and building blocks of all these policies we choose or don't choose that can affect in a systemic way the science of our biology and our sociology and our public health and our climate and ecosystems and our water obviously. 78 00:13:25.092 --> 00:13:34.612 So I don't think I have to explain to people why we decided to talk to two folks from Michigan about water. Obviously, on the international scene, you came right into that. 79 00:13:34.692 --> 00:13:40.492 It's been like 10 years, I think, since the Flint stuff became news at least to the rest of the world. 80 00:13:40.532 --> 00:13:49.832 When you talk to folks around the state, and you talked a little bit about your disc group before, I know you're working on the pipes, you know, all these different pieces. There's the bottled water fiasco. 81 00:13:49.852 --> 00:13:55.352 It's been going on forever. How do people feel about it now? Do they feel like there's been progress made? 82 00:13:55.472 --> 00:14:06.452 Is there something that they can touch and feel that at least, again, this is a big complicated issue, that Michigan's going in the right direction? [upbeat music] Hey, it's Quinn. 83 00:14:06.512 --> 00:14:19.052 So as you might be aware, this whole thing started as a simple, "Hey, here's what you missed" newsletter. And today, we've turned that one little newsletter into this burgeoning media and tech empire, right? 84 00:14:19.452 --> 00:14:30.352 We've got over fifty thousand readers in almost a hundred countries and tens of thousands of podcast downloads a month and app visitors, and it all comes back to our email and website provider. 85 00:14:30.812 --> 00:14:46.212 Beehiiv not only helps us write and send these beautiful newsletters that actually get into people's inboxes, it also hosts our membership, it hosts our website, it gives us crazy best-in-class analytics with like unlimited ways to review our data. 86 00:14:46.252 --> 00:14:53.532 We can run polls and surveys and use custom fields, and also it integrates with a ton of external tools. 87 00:14:53.952 --> 00:15:03.852 Their API lets us sync your email user profile to the profile on our app, so everything for you is streamlined and in sync, and you don't even see what's going on behind the curtain. It's great. 88 00:15:04.372 --> 00:15:15.712 So if you've ever considered starting a newsletter for your hometown, for book club, business, yourself, your art, whatever, Beehiiv has a deal for you here. 89 00:15:16.172 --> 00:15:24.052 You can sign up using my link, and you get a thirty-day free trial and twenty percent off for the first three months, which is a lot. 90 00:15:24.452 --> 00:15:32.482 So I'm gonna read you the link, but you gotta know it's also in the show notes, and you can just click it, okay? And understand that Beehiiv is spelled a little funny. 91 00:15:32.882 --> 00:15:50.012 It's beehiiv.com, but it's B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com/?via=quinn. Honestly, if you can remember that, congratulations. Otherwise, it's right in the show notes. Check out Beehiiv today. You guys will love it. 92 00:15:50.132 --> 00:16:01.052 We depend on it every minute of every day. So thanks for supporting our partners. [upbeat music] I think in some ways, yes, in some ways, no. 93 00:16:01.212 --> 00:16:06.532 There are so many reasons that what happened happened, racism, you know, systemic issues. 94 00:16:06.572 --> 00:16:20.472 But even if we just look to look at water infrastructure and isolate that piece, we have done tremendous amount in Michigan in going in and replacing our water infrastructure before it becomes a problem. Mm-hmm. 95 00:16:20.572 --> 00:16:30.572 And I think a lot of people see that when we're literally tearing up in front of their yards. It's an ever-present fear for people now, I think. Sure. But it's also a little hard to 96 00:16:31.732 --> 00:16:40.932 consistently get people to know about, and recognize, and be invested in 'cause it's sort of one of those out of sight, out of mind things. Sure. 97 00:16:41.112 --> 00:16:50.012 People don't necessarily look at that as critical infrastructure in a way they probably should. I think that there are also other issues related to water 98 00:16:50.932 --> 00:16:56.152 that we've made some headway on, but frankly not nearly as much as we should. 99 00:16:56.622 --> 00:17:05.032 And I think those are also the issues that tend to get more coverage than something sort of like mundane and kind of deeply unseen as water infrastructure. Mm-hmm. 100 00:17:05.092 --> 00:17:11.832 When you look at things like PFAS and microplastics, there's a ton of work that we need to be doing there. 101 00:17:12.292 --> 00:17:20.232 And there is headway, but not nearly as much as there could be, and frankly as I think most people would want and expect. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, again, 102 00:17:21.432 --> 00:17:28.932 I really love infrastructure, and I've had a couple guests on talking about it. I'll send you a couple books that are great, and one is like a kid's graphic novel, and it's great. 103 00:17:28.992 --> 00:17:37.032 It's like, look at what's around you, even if you can't see it, right? Even if you never go to the part of town where the treatment plants are, right? Whatever it might be. It's every... 104 00:17:37.292 --> 00:17:40.042 It's the idea of like when you hit that switch on your light, whatever it is, 105 00:17:41.312 --> 00:17:50.012 it really helps to spend a day considering how that works, not just so you understand it, but for the gratitude of how many different people, and how many different pieces, 106 00:17:50.972 --> 00:18:01.332 and how many different systems interact to, to make it so your light turns on, to make sure that water comes out of your faucet, and to understand who the bastards are making the decisions when they cut it off, right? 107 00:18:01.492 --> 00:18:05.912 Yeah. Or to not replace the pipe. Someone is deciding to keep you sick, basically. What 108 00:18:07.052 --> 00:18:20.044 lessons in all the billions you guys are spending to, to, like you said, rip up these pipes and put in new ones, which again is really touch and feelThis is big work, and you are not unique in America to the respect that you have to replace aging infrastructure. 109 00:18:20.284 --> 00:18:22.824 What lessons, I guess, have been learned? 'Cause you're four terms in. 110 00:18:23.084 --> 00:18:29.924 Are there things you would change about these bills, or updates or amendments going forward as this work continues that might be transferable to other places? 111 00:18:30.224 --> 00:18:40.124 The longer you wait to address something, the more expensive and harder it gets to do. You know, Flint was the light bulb moment- Yeah... for everyone. 112 00:18:40.744 --> 00:18:48.784 But this is a crisis that could happen to some degree in any community here in Michigan. Mm-hmm. Because we all have aging pipes. 113 00:18:48.904 --> 00:19:07.224 And, you know, there are funds available, there just were through, you know, the federal government and state assistance, but a community has to be below a certain threshold and meet a certain level of need in order to access and draw down those funds to replace their infrastructure in that way. 114 00:19:07.484 --> 00:19:17.584 And a lot of communities don't, but one, they desperately still need to replace that infrastructure, and two, they don't actually have the funds available to do it- Mm... so low. 115 00:19:18.064 --> 00:19:35.344 So we need to just get better holistically, particularly when it comes to infrastructure, in looking prospectively and trying to address problems as we can, rather than waiting until it's literally a crisis and we have action levels popping up all across the state. 116 00:19:35.984 --> 00:19:46.183 That revenue has to come from somewhere eventually. Mm. And politicians hate raising revenue. This is what happens when you don't. You know, we have virtually... I should say we have no plan. 117 00:19:46.404 --> 00:19:57.484 There are a lot of communities without resources that desperately need assistance in replacing this infrastructure, and that's something that we could have been looking at a long time ago, but certainly since Flint. 118 00:19:57.544 --> 00:19:57.984 Totally. 119 00:19:58.024 --> 00:20:18.544 Well, if we're talking about, and again, like you said, this is endemic everywhere, part of it's federalism to bring the national government into it for a minute because for huge infrastructure projects, traditionally, a lot of that money will come from there in some ways, even it takes forever to be distributed, and every state and then locality treats it differently, the whole thing, right? 120 00:20:18.644 --> 00:20:27.024 We saw- we've seen that with every bill. But again, if we're looking at assume we're not getting any money from the feds, [laughs] have you seen success? 121 00:20:27.164 --> 00:20:37.764 Are there learned lessons from local and state governments actually starting to work together on some of these things to find a common way? 'Cause like you said, local governments can't afford to do this shit. 122 00:20:37.904 --> 00:20:42.224 Like, uh, whether we're talking roads or pipes or whatever. Y- yeah. 123 00:20:42.344 --> 00:20:50.454 You know, I mean, I think that, like you said, part of it is a structural issue just because of the way that we have s- historically funded and relied on the federal government for that. 124 00:20:50.484 --> 00:21:12.944 But I will say that, you know, trying to connect our local governments to the statewide departments that are doing this work, we have made it a priority in previous budget cycles to set aside funds to try and help communities that are not going to qualify for federal funds to make sure that they're not left hanging because they simply can't do it without some- Yeah... 125 00:21:12.984 --> 00:21:22.924 assistance, right? Yeah. So yes, there absolutely have been lessons, but we've had to act faster now than we would have if we had just been approaching it this way since, you know, probably before I got there. 126 00:21:23.193 --> 00:21:26.524 [laughs] But that's a tale as old as time for everywhere. You know, Michigan isn't... 127 00:21:26.864 --> 00:21:39.304 Well, m- most people who don't understand geography, it's not on the East or West Coast, so you wouldn't think, oh, storms, but like, you guys are dealing with real increased rains and flooding and erosion in a real way 'cause you're on these enormous b- bodies of water, obviously. 128 00:21:39.904 --> 00:21:48.004 Mm-hmm. I- in a lot of ways. But again, that's endemic throughout the country, like whatever- Yeah... you're talking about. And like you said, we didn't start early enough. Now we have to do it. 129 00:21:48.074 --> 00:21:56.244 It's gonna cost more, but that doesn't mean we can't do it. Like- Exactly... you do have to do it or it starts to be truly crippled in a lot of ways. 130 00:21:56.284 --> 00:22:09.794 One of my best friends works in a research hospital in southwest Virginia, and when he got there, he's a real problem solver, and he's gonna murder me for s- oversimplifying this, but they were basically like, "Make people stop coming to the emergency room so much." 131 00:22:10.484 --> 00:22:15.134 And that is such a complicated problem, but it's also very simple in a lot of ways. Absolutely. 132 00:22:15.134 --> 00:22:24.684 'Cause so many people come in with heart pain and chest pain, and the doctors say, "Steve, we've seen you three times this year. You have to take your heart medication. 133 00:22:25.634 --> 00:22:31.424 This is gonna cost you so much money, especially if you took an ambulance, clogs up the emergency room, right? 134 00:22:32.044 --> 00:22:42.464 And we can't show up every day and make you do this, but if you do this, it will be less costly, both fiscally and to your health span," right? To everyone involved. And it's the same thing for everything. 135 00:22:42.524 --> 00:22:49.344 You know, that maintenance goes a long way. And obviously sometimes you gotta replace the pipes, but that's where we are, and we do have to do that work. 136 00:22:49.364 --> 00:22:57.164 And a- as much as Michigan has been, you know, unfortunately in the spotlight, nowhere else is safer from this. New York City's pipes are 1,000 years old. 137 00:22:57.364 --> 00:23:12.674 So who are your allies when it comes to water in the state legislature, but also advocacy groups and other groups that are, again, advocating or outside groups that are helping to write policy either on the national or the state level for y'all? 138 00:23:13.084 --> 00:23:21.554 Like, where can you- Yeah... turn to for that? There's sort of like a contingency of the environmental legislators, you know, that have kinda just sort of owned these issues. 139 00:23:22.104 --> 00:23:25.104 And, you know, we have term limits here in Michigan, so they've come and gone. 140 00:23:25.704 --> 00:23:37.374 But in terms of advocacy organizations, we work a lot with the Sierra Club, the Natural Resources Defense Council, but there's also a lot more, like, hyper-localized groups. Mm-hmm. So, like, MOSES in Detroit- Mm-hmm... 141 00:23:37.384 --> 00:23:39.314 deals a lot with affordability. Mm-hmm. 142 00:23:39.384 --> 00:23:52.184 I have learned so much from them in terms of how this has just really been designed to disenfranchise, i- in my case, Detroiters, but, you know, there are communities all across the state and country like this. 143 00:23:52.284 --> 00:23:56.704 Detroit Action and People's Action, Michigan United has been fantastic. 144 00:23:57.244 --> 00:24:08.644 The League of Conservation Voters, they are getting into historically, obviously, always, you know, conservation and environmentally focused, but also they've gotten into affordability areas. 145 00:24:08.684 --> 00:24:11.154 They've gotten into, like, pro-democracy areas. Mm-hmm. 146 00:24:11.444 --> 00:24:28.636 So, like, really kind of highlighting for people how all of these things are linked.But no, it's just, it's been really fantastic to sort of have a coalition of people statewide and more at a local level to raise awareness and bring other people into the issue too. 147 00:24:28.686 --> 00:24:40.996 'Cause, you know- Sure... you mentioned this earlier, like times are hard. Everyone is just kind of overwhelmed all of the time, so you cannot possibly, you know, keep an eye on every crucial issue. 148 00:24:41.056 --> 00:24:51.605 So sometimes having people raise awareness in communities and sort of be trusted mesh- messengers for people is really helpful too in getting people to understand why it's important. Well, I love that because 149 00:24:52.636 --> 00:25:01.696 we ran a poll once. It was something along the lines of, "Have you ever considered running for local office?" And we got some incredible responses, but a lot of were like, "No, I'm terrified. 150 00:25:02.156 --> 00:25:10.535 Didn't know there's a local office. No one will like me. No, it seems too hard. I've never been to a city council," all these different things. And you're like, "You can go to a city council meeting. 151 00:25:10.836 --> 00:25:18.396 I mean, you only need to make people like you for a little while." You know, all these different things. Yeah. But I understand the fear of it and the fear of, "I can campaign." You know? 152 00:25:18.596 --> 00:25:24.135 Uh, I think it was Barack Obama who was just... You know, campaigning's much easier than actually governing, which is true. 153 00:25:24.796 --> 00:25:33.556 But at the same time, there's always people who are already there doing the work that can help you along the way, like those allies, like you said, like those folks in the legislature that have come and gone. 154 00:25:33.896 --> 00:25:44.076 You're not gonna have to show up and do the whole thing. Yes. There's always folks, and especially, again, someplace like Michigan where folks have been on the ground doing it 'cause they have to. Mm-hmm. You know? 155 00:25:44.236 --> 00:25:53.156 And those are the best folks to learn from for sure. Like what's actually- Absolutely... gonna work in this bill. What is just a waste, you know? How do we get Nestle out of here? 156 00:25:53.576 --> 00:26:01.136 Well, and to give the history of some of that, again, we have term limits, so institutional knowledge is so, so valuable in this state. Yeah. Yeah. 157 00:26:01.426 --> 00:26:10.476 And it's not gonna come in most cases from sitting legislators because we've only been there for y- you know, a hot minute really when it comes down to it. Mm-hmm. 158 00:26:10.496 --> 00:26:20.116 So having organizers and stakeholder groups that do have that institutional knowledge because they have been there fighting this battle consistently is so, so critical. 159 00:26:20.936 --> 00:26:25.055 So what does the future look like for how Michigan... 160 00:26:25.096 --> 00:26:32.976 Again, like so many places, you are bailing out the boat, but also trying to plug the hole in a lot of ways, knowing more rains are coming, knowing more erosion's coming, things like that. 161 00:26:32.986 --> 00:26:41.426 You're fixing the pipes, which at one point, like, wasn't in the conversation, and now it is. It's along the way. Can you look ahead at all to go, what are we gonna need to do next? 162 00:26:41.556 --> 00:26:50.316 What's the next thing that's sort of the intersection of achievable, but also something that'll make measurable progress that people can touch and feel? Yeah. 163 00:26:50.396 --> 00:27:00.396 You know, I mean, I touched on PFAS and microplastics, and I'm on the microplastics package. I think that those are real threats, and they are very serious concerns for people, so I'm not trying to disregard those. 164 00:27:00.436 --> 00:27:10.656 But also, the landscape has fundamentally changed since I started in the legislature in 2019. People are trying to survive on a day-to-day basis now. 165 00:27:11.056 --> 00:27:21.516 So when you ask me what is the next big issue for me and what is something that I also think is achievable, it's water affordability. Mm-hmm. Just plain and simple. 166 00:27:21.596 --> 00:27:34.836 We had a package that was so well vetted, and there was virtually no opposition, and it would be a whole separate podcast episode to talk about how we got to a point where it all fell apart in the end. 167 00:27:35.036 --> 00:27:45.706 But suffice just- Interested. Continue. Great. [laughs] Always available, and I will make sure that my tech works. But suffice to say, I know that, you know, folks are gonna hear from Denzel on this one too. 168 00:27:46.536 --> 00:27:52.856 Denzel's opponent killed that. The margin we had was one person, and she stopped showing up. 169 00:27:52.926 --> 00:28:06.136 And that is a program that would have been transformational for people under the best of circumstances, much less now- Mm-hmm... when the cost of everything is going up. People are losing their food assistance. 170 00:28:06.296 --> 00:28:12.785 You know, healthcare is being held hostage, and premiums are going to go up on, you know, ACA coverage and everything. 171 00:28:14.176 --> 00:28:30.016 That package would have been a game changer for people in this state, and it is still so incredibly possible if we can just get, you know, the actual politics of stuff out of the way. It had bipartisan support. 172 00:28:30.096 --> 00:28:36.436 I believe it still does. It's been reintroduced. That is one of my top priorities because it is a good bill package. 173 00:28:37.016 --> 00:28:57.136 Senator Stephanie Chang is leading the way on that, and she just did an immense amount of work to get everybody that could have a stake in it, with the exception of one, you know, random commissioner somewhere, to be on board with it and still make sure that it did what it needed to do. 174 00:28:57.166 --> 00:29:06.576 And it was- Yeah... important last term, but it is 1,000 times more important right now. So that is one of my top priorities to try and get done. Thank you for sticking with your guns on that. 175 00:29:06.876 --> 00:29:18.256 The good and the bad news about the fact that we're fighting for the basics all over again is that it's so easy and often, like, cathartic to really draw a line in the sand with people about. 176 00:29:18.436 --> 00:29:27.985 Not that this wasn't incredibly important and aspirational and awesome, but when people like, "Oh, in the IRA, uh, yes, we got a green bank, and how much money should it... And how..." That's all awesome. 177 00:29:28.176 --> 00:29:36.566 I will argue about that all day. It's really exciting. We're all coming from the same place that it should exist. Now we're like, "Do you believe that people's water should be shut off?" Exactly. 178 00:29:36.576 --> 00:29:47.776 If the answer is yes, you're a bad guy. [laughs] Like- Exactly... I have no problem... In fact, I'm excited to call you out and be like, "Oh, you think people's water should be shut off. Let's talk about that. 179 00:29:47.856 --> 00:29:56.456 How do you think people live? What do you think [laughs] people need to live?" Right. It's that and, like, dirty air, and one of the other conversations we've had is school lunches. It's just stuff that makes me, 180 00:29:57.516 --> 00:30:08.876 again, like, kind of in a cathartic way, go haywire. Uh- We had a three-hour-long hearing on that bill package because there were so many people who had their water shut off who wanted to come testify. 181 00:30:09.336 --> 00:30:17.196 And like, I have had my water shut off. That is a mortifying thing to disclose to a room full of people who probably cannot relate to it. 182 00:30:17.236 --> 00:30:27.156 So it was a three-hour-long hearing because if that many people want to come and, like, share in that way to explain why this is important, then we're doing it. And one of the Republicans... 183 00:30:27.196 --> 00:30:28.116 It was my committee at the time. 184 00:30:28.576 --> 00:30:41.072 But one of my Republican colleagues on that committee at one pointAsked them if they had Netflix accounts and if they had considered shutting off their Netflix in order to afford their water. 185 00:30:41.952 --> 00:30:48.982 And it was not my, like, most professional moment, but I wouldn't change a single thing about it because I don't know what he thinks you do. 186 00:30:49.272 --> 00:30:59.572 Do you think that people who cannot wash their hands or go get a glass of water or flush their toilet are spending a whole lot of time enjoying Netflix in their house? 187 00:30:59.832 --> 00:31:09.482 There's a moment in the very first Avengers movie where someone... I don't remember how they get to that point, but basically the Hulk says, "My secret is I'm always angry." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's right." 188 00:31:09.652 --> 00:31:19.182 [laughs] Yes. And that's okay. I'm gonna ride that as long as necessary. I will burn out into the sun on that because I would've... However you handled that, I would've handled it much more poorly. 189 00:31:19.692 --> 00:31:27.921 And what are you gonna do? It's just incredible. It's incredible. We can talk about bad guys all day. But yeah, what's next is, like, we're still fighting for the basic stuff. 190 00:31:27.992 --> 00:31:30.312 In fact, we're going backwards on a lot of this stuff, whatever it is. 191 00:31:30.412 --> 00:31:41.162 You know, when they're, again, wastewater sur- surveillance, using it for evil to try to find birth control in the water, and you're just like, "Okay, that's where we are. Got it. Mask are off. Not microplastics, though. 192 00:31:41.172 --> 00:31:48.392 Perfect." We're keeping it positive here. You guys are doing a lot of tremendous work. It has been, like, 10 years, which is crazy. I feel like I'm 1,000. 193 00:31:48.892 --> 00:31:59.772 But you are doing the work, and that's not a not complicated thing. You are replacing the pipes while people try to kidnap your governor, you know, while you are dealing with bad guys who are mad about Netflix. 194 00:32:00.032 --> 00:32:10.252 And us, actually. Yeah. Fun fact, the people who tried to kidnap her came to the Capitol looking for her, couldn't find her, and decided they were going to start assassinating us and live streaming it to lure her out. 195 00:32:10.692 --> 00:32:19.712 Awesome. Great. So that's just a fun bit of bar trivia to keep in your back pocket. But you're the monster that wants people to have water to drink. Perfect. Hang your hat on it. 196 00:32:19.752 --> 00:32:28.312 Well, that is what good representation's all about, and I'm sorry you went through that. It's... Yeah, all we can do is keep fighting, I guess. Laurie, what's a book you'd recommend during this? 197 00:32:28.672 --> 00:32:42.022 [laughs] We get the Constitution, we get coloring books, we get fantasy, we get amazing nonfiction. It is truly your choice. Lawless by Professor Leah Litman, who is, full disclosure, a friend of mine. Beautiful. 198 00:32:42.022 --> 00:32:55.532 But she is a law professor. She is just an incredible litigator. She's argued in front of the Supreme Court. She helped with the fight for reproductive rights here in Michigan, for LGBTQ rights here in Michigan. 199 00:32:56.052 --> 00:33:08.812 But she really just outlines how what we're seeing with the Supreme Court now is not a new phenomenon. This has been in the works for a really long time. There are absolutely moments where it's a bummer. Mm-hmm. 200 00:33:08.872 --> 00:33:21.312 But there's also, like, a tangible call to action, and here's what you can do to fix it, and it's just... It's absolutely essential reading for anybody living in America right now. [laughs] Perfect. Great. Awesome. 201 00:33:21.332 --> 00:33:29.492 We will add it to the list. We've got a bunch up on the bookshop, which the people love. Is there a, last one, a playlist you can't get enough of right now? 202 00:33:29.992 --> 00:33:37.761 That's a new one, and I was like, "Why haven't I been asking this? This is where people go." There's a new Florence + The Machine album that came out today- I know... 203 00:33:37.812 --> 00:33:48.432 that is called Everybody Scream, which I feel like is just chef's kiss right now. [laughs] Perfect. I saw her once at the Hollywood Bowl or The Greek, I think, and it was just like... 204 00:33:48.472 --> 00:33:58.242 It w- I mean, it was 1,000 years ago, but it's just, I mean, incredible. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I'm very jealous right now. No, she's fantastic. That's awesome. We'll find the new Florence + The Machine album. 205 00:33:58.372 --> 00:34:08.432 I will be blasting that on the streets of Colonial Williamsburg later. Perfect. Well, listen, y- the hardships you went through to appear today are numerous and on no notice, so I really appreciate it. 206 00:34:08.612 --> 00:34:17.402 Thank you for everything you're doing. Oh, we're, we're trying, man. You know, when people like... I can't look and see and touch and feel and taste and drink some progress. 207 00:34:18.012 --> 00:34:28.932 I do know it's out there 'cause I'm so exposed to all this through all of this, but I understand it, and if we can do some way to facilitate that so people can go, "Oh, well, my town, we could do that," or, "What are the examples of this in my town?" 208 00:34:28.992 --> 00:34:45.052 Or, "What's transferable to my town?" Least we can do. I really appreciate your time today. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate it. [upbeat music] I got Denzel McCampbell on the phone. 209 00:34:45.132 --> 00:34:55.672 Denzel, tell us a little bit about where you're running and what office you're running for. Absolutely. Uh, thanks for having me on, Quinn, and good to be here with you. Again, my name is Denzel McCampbell. 210 00:34:55.712 --> 00:35:03.572 I'm a candidate for Detroit City Council here in District 7, and born and raised in the city of Detroit, been on the city's East side. 211 00:35:03.652 --> 00:35:12.272 So for folks who aren't familiar, you know how some areas may be divided up by quadrants, and here in the city of Detroit, we're divided up by the East and West side. 212 00:35:12.772 --> 00:35:16.832 So now living in District 7 on the West Side for the past 11 years. 213 00:35:16.912 --> 00:35:35.832 I'm a community organizer, someone who's been involved in working on the ground together with community around issues such as voting rights, environmental justice, equitable development, making sure that corporations, when they get money and tax subsidies to build things here in the city of Detroit, that they're actually giving back to community and it's not just a blank slate. 214 00:35:36.292 --> 00:35:50.112 I've worked on our city's charter, which is our governing documents, to push for a Detroit Bill of Rights that actually center folks' needs, and I'm just running for city council to make sure that we are paying attention and delivering for our neighborhoods here in District 7. 215 00:35:50.632 --> 00:35:58.412 We have a lot of children and a lot of seniors and marginalized groups that we really have to put at the forefront and deliver for. So again, it's good to be here with you. 216 00:35:59.252 --> 00:36:09.092 Man, thank you for being here, for running, for fighting for your hometown. Most important question of the day is gonna be, your website said you have a dog. W- w- would... Tell me about your dog. Yes. 217 00:36:09.311 --> 00:36:16.482 [laughs] Absolutely. So I have a 11-year-old Yorkie named Minnie, and she actually runs this household. Mm-hmm. 218 00:36:16.732 --> 00:36:29.712 And the story behind Minnie is that back in 2014, I wanted a dog, and my mom then took Minnie from me [laughs] 'cause she wanted a dog, and that became her best friend. 219 00:36:29.812 --> 00:36:40.956 But, you know, unfortunately, my mom passed away in 2020, so-Folks are like, "Oh, what are you gonna do with Minnie?" I said, "Well, of course I'm gonna take Minnie." So she's been my sidekick ever since. 220 00:36:41.196 --> 00:36:54.286 She is a trip for sure. That's awesome, man. The dog definitely r- runs the house for sure. I've had my line of them and they do. I got my wife who I answer to, and my kids who don't answer to either of us- Right... 221 00:36:54.296 --> 00:37:03.216 and then my dog, who kinda does what she wants. If there's bread on the counter, she's like, "I've been fed. I'm good. I've got it." [laughs] No, don't work for me. I'm good. I'm covered. 222 00:37:03.386 --> 00:37:13.966 No, you don't need to feed me the dry kibble shit. She's like, "I ate the Cinnamon Rolls." That's amazing. Well, I wanna talk about how Minnie has been endorsed by Run for Something twice in 2021 and now. 223 00:37:14.096 --> 00:37:24.126 Tell me a little bit h- how you got hooked up with those folks at first. I came across Run for Something when I ran for Detroit City Clerk, and this is a role that is in charge of our elections, election administration. 224 00:37:24.176 --> 00:37:46.896 Again, I got my start in organizing around expanding access to the ballot box, so that was something that continues to be dear to my heart and came across Run for Something and really loved their mission around lifting up folks who are first time looking to run, and they have Run for Something and whether it's at the city council level, the municipal level, you know, state rep, what have you, and really 225 00:37:47.836 --> 00:37:50.646 breaking down these barriers to running for office, right? 226 00:37:50.776 --> 00:37:57.976 Because so often folks may feel like, "Oh, you know, I have to be, uh, involved in this," or, "I have to have this amount of money," or, "I have these connections." 227 00:37:58.076 --> 00:38:12.806 I got connected with Run for Something to really break down and get rid of those barriers and they were very helpful in 2021, and I'm fortunate to now be endorsed again by Run for Something here in 2025 and they continue to be helpful. 228 00:38:12.826 --> 00:38:21.196 And not just for me, but folks across the state of Michigan, across the country, and really saying, you know, "We need more folks. We need new voices. 229 00:38:21.236 --> 00:38:29.176 We need fresh leadership in these roles to really change the outcome for folks and deliver on people's needs." So I really appreciate them. I love that. 230 00:38:29.256 --> 00:38:38.016 So I'm sure you don't have to explain to your constituents what the city council is and, you know, what your powers and your duties and responsibilities might be. 231 00:38:38.536 --> 00:38:46.786 But take me back to, because there's such a focus from us in Run for Something and a lot of other groups about we have to fight for every office from like school board- Yeah... 232 00:38:46.856 --> 00:38:56.716 on up, sheriff, like you said, city clerk, this and this. How often when you started to run for city clerk did you have to talk to people and they'd be like, "What is city clerk?" 233 00:38:56.776 --> 00:39:05.296 Like maybe you've heard of it, but what do you do? Because that is such a problem in local elections and they're kinda different in every town sometimes- Mm-hmm... in every city. 234 00:39:05.876 --> 00:39:13.485 Tell me about that 'cause it sounds, by the way you explained it, that you've had to do that many times before. I had to do it a lot, right- Yeah... when I was running. And that's a great question. 235 00:39:13.576 --> 00:39:19.265 I think it, it also lends to the civic education, right? Mm-hmm. That we have to have with every level, right? 236 00:39:19.336 --> 00:39:28.476 And so it came across a lot and like I said, with the city clerk, it's one of those roles that you don't know about until you really hear about, right? 237 00:39:28.576 --> 00:39:39.676 Going to vote, I will see, you know, the folks who are working the polls, polling locations, but you probably are not gonna see the city clerk, but you will see their impact in what they're running. 238 00:39:39.796 --> 00:39:51.056 The city clerk is also our record keeper and the holder of our seal, so as folks are interacting with city council, they c- actually keep the agendas and things. And that's the same in the city council as well. 239 00:39:51.086 --> 00:39:54.436 I would say that we have had to talk to folks about the power. 240 00:39:54.596 --> 00:40:04.506 That's why I also bring up my role in the Charter Revision Commission because a lot of folks don't know, but also I would say a lot of folks that get into these roles don't know the extent- Mm-hmm... 241 00:40:04.506 --> 00:40:15.116 of their power as well. Sure. Or the need to be able to break down that at the doors on the phones. When I ran for city clerk, and I'm continuing to push for what I call a civic education corps- Mm-hmm... 242 00:40:15.136 --> 00:40:31.256 that actually has mostly young people, but folks of all ages in the community partner with block clubs and neighborhood associations, that we're going door to door, meeting people where they are to talk about the issues that are impacting them and how it connects to each level of government and each office, right? 243 00:40:31.676 --> 00:40:36.676 Here in Detroit, we have a strong mayor system, so our mayor runs our departments. 244 00:40:36.716 --> 00:40:44.876 The mayor has a cabinet, and those are the folks that you will mostly call if you have a issue with like trash pickup, if you have a issue with taxes and such. 245 00:40:45.436 --> 00:40:57.176 But our city council is the legislative branch, and we have i- investigatory powers. We approve the budget, but we also, we have that oversight as well, what the mayor does. So I've had to explain a lot. 246 00:40:57.416 --> 00:41:08.996 When I ran for clerk, I had to explain a lot about that- Yeah... but also in the city council race, folks are familiar with city council, but it's also a conversation about here's what we can and what more we will, yeah. 247 00:41:10.936 --> 00:41:24.696 [upbeat music] Imagine this. You get some goddamn notification about something you give a shit about, and you just wanna stop what you're doing, whatever you're doing, and actually do something about it. 248 00:41:25.156 --> 00:41:34.666 You can't just live out here on the receiving end of these things. So you head to whatcanido.earth, and boom, right in front of you is our new intelligent starter action section. 249 00:41:35.076 --> 00:41:44.616 Front and center, exactly the action you want and need to take right now. Head to whatcanido.earth right now to check it out, because the world won't unfuck itself. 250 00:41:44.915 --> 00:41:56.816 [upbeat music] Sure. Yeah. No, absolutely, man, and you know, it's different everywhere. 251 00:41:56.996 --> 00:42:03.756 I am, I say it all the time on the show, I'm downtown Colonial Williamsburg right now, which is where I was born and raised, left for a thousand years, come back. 252 00:42:03.836 --> 00:42:13.156 But we've got the proper city of Colonial Williamsburg, which, uh, just Williamsburg itself has not... The boundaries haven't grown in 400 years, and a whole county has grown up around it. 253 00:42:13.596 --> 00:42:20.535 Little like when I was in Los Angeles, there's Hollywood and then there's West Hollywood, which is much bigger- Right... and surrounds the whole thing, and then there, there's all the rest of it. 254 00:42:21.016 --> 00:42:28.186 So we've got a city council and a mayor who's elected from the city council, so the mayor's not quite as powerful as in Detroit. Right. 255 00:42:28.196 --> 00:42:38.086 But we've also got a board of supervisors from the county and, like, how those work with each other in the school system, which is a hybrid school s- Like, it's complicated, so I understand why people are like, "I don't really know how this works." 256 00:42:38.266 --> 00:42:46.012 Yeah. And you hear about people arguing over budgets, and you're likeOkay it's complicated, and man, I'm so with you and invested on the civics education front. 257 00:42:46.062 --> 00:42:51.672 And there's some fundamentals that are transferable, which I'm really interested in for everything we do- Mm-hmm... 258 00:42:51.692 --> 00:43:00.202 from education to policy, but again, then there's those little intricacies, man, that really matter, and roles like clerk where you're like this is what makes the machine work. Yeah. 259 00:43:00.202 --> 00:43:05.452 Keeping the records and keeping the seal, especially these days, right? You are the single source of the truth for a lot of this stuff. 260 00:43:06.272 --> 00:43:26.942 And I appreciate you having this conversation a- and asking those questions because also, you know, as we see how the media landscape is changing, right, especially as local newsrooms are getting smaller, we're in the city of Detroit, you know, maybe 10, and we have some phenomenal folks on the ground that are still covering local aspects, but a lot of that has had to come from, you know, nonprofits and- Mm-hmm... 261 00:43:26.972 --> 00:43:28.712 really stand, like, in that space. But 262 00:43:29.852 --> 00:43:45.572 as we're thinking about accurate minutes for city council, being able to see how your city council member has voted on this issue or this contract or this budget, that brings into how more important, like, someone like a clerk would be, so absolutely. 263 00:43:46.392 --> 00:43:54.512 So I wanna talk a little bit today about water. It is one of my, you know, pet peeve doesn't do it justice. It's like clean air, again, being in LA or whatever. 264 00:43:54.992 --> 00:44:05.212 It should be pretty fundamental and not something that is up for disagreement, but it's complicated. It's obviously clean, accessible, affordable water i- is actually a million different things. 265 00:44:05.312 --> 00:44:16.192 So you mentioned 2014 and many entering life, that's when Detroit's water issues were sort of front and center for the world for a minute. So- Yeah... you don't have to explain why, 'cause it... 266 00:44:16.532 --> 00:44:26.832 I think it inherently makes sense why that would be a platform of yours because between the water shutoffs and the crazy rain you guys had, infrastructure issues that a lot of cities face and things like that. 267 00:44:27.712 --> 00:44:38.452 Tell me specifically though, because again, this is the feedback we've gotten, what are you specifically fighting to make, like, measurable progress on? Cool. And what does that look like for folks? 268 00:44:39.112 --> 00:44:46.052 You are so right how it touches so many aspects, right? I would tell you just a little bit about the background as you're talking about water shutoffs. 269 00:44:46.632 --> 00:44:58.112 Like, there was one story of a family, an older couple that had to melt snow really to have water to flush a toilet, right? Like, in the richest country in the world, right? 270 00:44:58.132 --> 00:45:02.412 And we know that water is life, that folks need it to live. 271 00:45:03.092 --> 00:45:24.432 And what came out of that was a push for, one, a water affordability plan of that says that no matter who you are, no matter how much money you make, you will have access to water, and we will actually allow you to pay what you can into the system so we can keep water flowing, and the pushback against the widespread shutoffs that folks were experiencing. 272 00:45:24.992 --> 00:45:34.432 And for folks who may be watching or listening, that may seem like a no-brainer. There are places that have done this in Philadelphia and other places across the country that have this. 273 00:45:35.372 --> 00:45:44.772 A- and just on the basis, as we think about what government is, right, this collective of folks that have put in resources to deliver on the basic needs. That's how I view government, right? 274 00:45:45.332 --> 00:45:54.812 To make sure that folks have their basic needs covered. You know, folks on the ground, advocates, organizers, have long pushed for a true water affordability plan that actually... 275 00:45:54.852 --> 00:46:00.022 And pushing back on disinformation, you know, opponents will say, "Oh, well, folks need to pay their fair share." 276 00:46:01.172 --> 00:46:14.732 Quinn, if you make $0 or if you are living in deep poverty and you don't have money to pay for water, what are we then telling folks? Mm-hmm. Right? That you don't deserve to live, basically. Correct. 277 00:46:14.872 --> 00:46:22.692 Um, so- Yeah, when we really boil it down, like- Yes... the note behind the note is what you're saying is, "We're fine with the way this goes." Yes. 278 00:46:22.752 --> 00:46:31.752 And also ignoring the fact that when we actually s- go to folks and say, "Pay what you can," it actually gets more money into the system- Mm... 279 00:46:31.812 --> 00:46:40.172 because then folks are not looking at a high water bill to say, "I can't tackle that- Yeah... because I have food on the table," right? Yep. "I can't tackle that because now I have to pay 280 00:46:41.332 --> 00:46:50.432 my utility bill that is also outrageous because we have a private monopoly here in Michigan that continues to increase rates." So really thinking about how all these issues connect. 281 00:46:50.532 --> 00:47:11.912 So on the water aspect of getting folks water is really pushing on the local level for water affordability plan across the city, an income-based water affordability plan, something that also State Senator Stephanie Chang and advocates have pushed at, on the state level to have a statewide water affordability plan that I was involved with on the advocacy side to help push. 282 00:47:12.502 --> 00:47:30.952 And just to bring a race into it, my opponent actually held up [laughs] it was at the very moment in a Democratic trifecta at the end of 2024 that we were very close to passing this legislation, and my opponent walked out and ended the session, so we could not get that legislation passed. 283 00:47:31.012 --> 00:47:39.442 So that's one tangible thing, that I'll push for at the local level to- Your current opponent? Yes. So that's one thing. Then you talk about the infrastructure side. 284 00:47:39.592 --> 00:47:53.212 You know, it's so funny that we use 100-year floods, you know, to describe these big floods, and- Mm-hmm... in the city of Detroit, we probably have had five or six 100-year floods in the last decade. So they're... 285 00:47:53.252 --> 00:48:05.992 now they're historic two-year floods at this point. But 2021, in my neighborhood, I had two floods within one month of each other. This was after I moved into my home. 286 00:48:06.052 --> 00:48:10.372 You know, as you're moving in, you're trying to figure out where things are gonna go. I mentioned my mom passed away. 287 00:48:10.492 --> 00:48:22.352 A lot of the sentimental things were in my basement as I'm figuring out where to put things, and my basement flooded. And, you know, that happened to me, and it happened to many of my neighbors. Many of folks had... 288 00:48:22.392 --> 00:48:26.592 You know, people had finished basements that they have sitting areas. 289 00:48:26.762 --> 00:48:33.762 And for the folks who may not know, some areas don't have basements, but here in Detroit, many folks use their basement as an additional room- Mm-hmm... 290 00:48:33.762 --> 00:48:39.992 additional living spaces, additional quarters, and just devastated folks across the board with floods. 291 00:48:40.052 --> 00:48:59.740 So there has been some work to go on with infrastructure upgrades, but for me, as I'm looking at this, that we have to make sure that we're continuing to push for climate resilient infrastructure, infrastructure that-Delivers clean water to folks, that we're replacing and continue on a rapid pace to replace our lead lines here in the city of Detroit and delivering water. 292 00:48:59.860 --> 00:49:26.620 And also to take bold climate action against what we know will increase these floods and the frequency of devastational weather, making sure that the city of Detroit is accelerating this pace to be a carbon neutral city, that we're investing in not only here in District 7 on the west side, but on the east side where there has been flooding on the canals because the city of Detroit sits on the Detroit River, that folks experience flooding all the time. 293 00:49:26.700 --> 00:49:38.540 So really coming together with my colleagues to have a citywide plan to build climate resilient infrastructure, to deliver clean water, and to make sure that we are playing our part in not 294 00:49:39.560 --> 00:49:42.289 advancing the climate emergency that we're in. 295 00:49:42.380 --> 00:50:03.600 I appreciate that so much, man, and your wide-ranging and at the same time deep understanding and perspective of both the intimate problems faced by yourself and people in District 7 and the west side and the east side in Detroit and everywhere, in that we have to do, and you guys have to do, and so many places have to do two things at once, right? 296 00:50:03.620 --> 00:50:19.220 Mm-hmm. We have to, as they say, adapt and mitigate, and part of that adaptation is not being afraid to say out loud where we are in the known nones, as we say, which is that you're gonna flood every two years. 297 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:27.220 That's table stakes now. Mm-hmm. You can call it whatever the hell you want, but we're gonna flood every two years, right? Right. Is it disingenuous to say 100-year flood still everywhere? Yes, of course. 298 00:50:27.600 --> 00:50:35.780 We're gonna flood every two years. Great. That's a starter. We've been... I mean, I think w- you tried to start replacing the lead pipes in, like, 2018, right? Something like that. 299 00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:40.540 And so many places are facing that, but obviously huge issue in Michigan. That's enough. 300 00:50:40.740 --> 00:50:48.230 The work is ongoing, but going from lead pipes that get overwhelmed and then plants that get overwhelmed, and you got boil notices, right? 301 00:50:48.260 --> 00:50:55.640 Which right up the street here in Richmond h- enormous problem in the past year with that. Mm-hmm. To climate resilient infrastructure. 302 00:50:55.720 --> 00:51:04.200 Like, it's a leap, but you have to always come back to these people and say, "I have been affected by this. I want to make sure- Yes... 303 00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:18.390 that the pipes are not lead and that they're clean and they're not gonna hurt your children's learning capacity, and that you're gonna have plants that don't require a boil advisory," which, like, how do you boil when you can't pay your ut- utility bill, right? 304 00:51:18.620 --> 00:51:28.330 Yes. How do you melt snow when you can't pay your utility? Like, we have to piece by piece get to these things, so I have such admiration for the specific ways you are fighting for this. 305 00:51:28.430 --> 00:51:38.620 'Cause again, that's what when people say to us, "I can't touch and feel this change," that is what will do it, right? Absolutely. 306 00:51:38.740 --> 00:51:45.800 And, you know, I know you have folks watching and listening from all over, and I know ma- many municipalities are facing this, right? 307 00:51:45.820 --> 00:52:02.340 And I get this question often, because what we see that's going on on a federal level in the cutting of funds in these programs that a lot of municipalities depend on, I tell folks that we cannot let up on the advocacy, the pushing of our folks on the federal level. 308 00:52:02.560 --> 00:52:16.140 Because it is going to take large investments, and it's unfortunate that in this last, not even a year, wow, not even a year that we've seen many of those advancements in funding either frozen or cut, right? 309 00:52:16.230 --> 00:52:37.360 And for me, wa- hoping to sit on the Detroit City Council is that I want to make sure that my colleagues, the incoming mayoral administration, our state legislators, our congressional delegation, that we are locked in lockstep to say we have to do all that we can to bring these resources back down to the municipal level. 310 00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:51.920 Because again, this is impacting folks day in and day out. It's water. And w- yeah, it's water, and if we can't solve this, we are in deep trouble. Yeah. Yeah. That's a very professional way of putting it, so thank you. 311 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.240 So you talked about we can't stop the advocacy. Okay. 312 00:52:54.480 --> 00:53:06.940 As you're trying to move into official capacity here on the city council, who are and will remain your advocacy allies pushing for clean, accessible, affordable water in the Detroit area? Yep. 313 00:53:07.020 --> 00:53:14.180 So there are organizations such as the People's Water Board. We the People of Detroit and, you know, there are organizations like Hydrate Detroit. 314 00:53:14.580 --> 00:53:27.400 We affectionately call all the folks that have been working on these issues for decades our water warriors here in Detroit. And it's like, I tell folks that the solutions to our problems are in our neighborhoods, right? 315 00:53:27.470 --> 00:53:27.470 Mm. 316 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:41.700 And these are folks that have been, you know, delivering water to folks when they had water shutoffs, that when the Flint water crisis happened, dropped everything and went to Flint to help ensure that families had water. 317 00:53:42.360 --> 00:54:03.190 These are the folks that I take direction from, because these are the mothers of the communities that have been doing this work all the time, this entire time, that not only is doing the emergency response, but also developing policy to say, "Let's triage where folks are right now, and let's have long lasting change so we don't have to continue to do this." 318 00:54:03.650 --> 00:54:11.040 Those are the folks that I will remain in partnership and advocacy space with. You know, there are folks, as I mentioned, on all levels of government. 319 00:54:11.080 --> 00:54:21.540 You know, Councilwoman Gabriela Santiago-Romero has been one to talk about environmental justice. Councilwoman Latisha Johnson in Detroit as well in dealing with infrastructure on the east side. 320 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:28.020 State Senator Stephanie Chang, as I mentioned, has been leading the fight around water affordability on the state level. 321 00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:43.740 Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, who I've, I had the opportunity to work with and be on her staff, has pushed on the federal level for more money around water infrastructure and water affordability, and even during COVID, pushed for there to be a moratorium o- on water shutoffs, right? 322 00:54:43.850 --> 00:54:55.200 And those are folks in the partnerships in the different levels of government that I really will work with to make sure that we have this really strong front in approaching this all and everywhere that we can. 323 00:54:55.620 --> 00:55:05.228 I love that, man. I'm so glad for all your decades of water warriors. And, and again, it's not, for a lot of reasons, something we canPause on or stop at some point. 324 00:55:05.368 --> 00:55:14.258 Where, you know, we work with so many nonprofits and advocacy folks who would love to put themselves out of business, right? Like- Yeah... kids cancer or some shit. They're like, "I don't wanna do this job." No. 325 00:55:14.258 --> 00:55:19.287 No one should have to do this job. Let's make it not stop, but someone has to do it until we can do it, right? 326 00:55:19.528 --> 00:55:27.368 Until you're ready to handle these floods that are gonna come, until you're ready to get rid of these lead pipes, until you're ready to do all this and make sure that... Here's the deal, water can't be shut off. 327 00:55:27.768 --> 00:55:38.328 Let's just start there. Let's make it a fundamental human right. So understanding that is a pretty black or white, like, measurable outcome. Yeah. What have you found so far? 328 00:55:38.408 --> 00:55:49.368 What are you working on that you feel is transferable to more cities? 'Cause again, like Michigan is very deeply dealing with this, obviously, and has been the focus of national and international coverage. 329 00:55:49.468 --> 00:55:57.748 But what else is transferable on the district and local level, you feel like other cities and towns and municipalities could catch up on? I think it is... 330 00:55:58.098 --> 00:56:06.128 'Cause I know that the answer will look different for different places. I think it is that, that coalition building- Mm-hmm... that is transferable. 331 00:56:06.208 --> 00:56:18.898 And what I mean by that, we've constantly had spaces where nonprofits, advocacy organizations, have been at the table with researchers, with folks that can dive deep into the data, folks that can look at other cities, 332 00:56:20.008 --> 00:56:25.848 and policymakers to say, "Here is the complete package" And also doing the organizing in the neighborhoods. 333 00:56:25.928 --> 00:56:35.108 I think that is the most transferable, is to not lose sight of that organizing space and that complete package of bringing everyone to the table, to coalition build in that way. 334 00:56:35.508 --> 00:56:48.948 The reason I'm bringing that up is 'cause we know that we're gonna confront folks who are against this movement, and will come with disinformation and try to bring in things that, "Oh, well, if we do this, pe- we're gonna just be paying water bills." 335 00:56:49.068 --> 00:56:54.428 No, it doesn't work like that. There are other places that have done. Mm-hmm. This is how it's done. They've actually got more money. 336 00:56:54.508 --> 00:57:07.648 I would say that's the m- most transferable thing that I can offer, is that coalition building space, so that we can confront at every space, whether it's research, policymaking, advocacy, on-the-ground conversations. 337 00:57:07.688 --> 00:57:13.427 That we're building a, a true coalition there. I love that, man. I have two remaining important questions. 338 00:57:13.668 --> 00:57:27.158 One I've been asking guests for years, and it's fairly standard, which is, what book is working for you these days? It could be water related, or civic data, or it could be a coloring book, or about dragons. 339 00:57:28.068 --> 00:57:40.217 What do you recommend? We got a whole list up at Bookshop that people love. I'm going to... 'Cause I'm telling you, my brain at this point is much- Like mine? Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Yes. 340 00:57:40.228 --> 00:58:00.608 But there is a book that I really, especially in, like, thinking about the city of Detroit, and I think it's this historical context that a lot of people will look at where we have come from in Detroit, and this breakdown of really the, I would say this corporatization and this view of, even in that conversation around water, of, "Oh, people just won't pay into it." 341 00:58:00.668 --> 00:58:08.428 But Whose Detroit?, by Heather Ann Thompson- Okay... is a great book that folks, if you're gonna get the audiobook or read it, will look into. 342 00:58:08.488 --> 00:58:20.628 And it really dives deep into the labor movement, politics in Detroit, and how race comes up in Detroit as well. Because folks who may not know, Metro Detroit has a region that is deeply segregated. 343 00:58:20.678 --> 00:58:31.568 And how we see politics come up in that is something that I think people really need to take from. So Whose Detroit? by Heather Ann Thompson is one that I would recommend. Awesome. We'll find it. 344 00:58:31.608 --> 00:58:35.888 And last one, what's a playlist you've been rocking lately? Okay. I 345 00:58:36.868 --> 00:58:50.448 love house music or the origins of house music in Detroit, but also there's this playlist on Apple that ha- is like Afro house music, which are Afrobeats and house music. So definitely recommend that. 346 00:58:50.528 --> 00:59:03.428 And also, because, uh, I've been trying to do, you know, some grounding and meditation before I go into a day of campaigning, surprisingly, Ariana Grande has a breathing playlist on Apple. That's awesome. 347 00:59:04.128 --> 00:59:13.548 And I love it 'cause Ariana Grande is one of my favorite artists. So yeah. Can I tell you some crazy shit? Yeah. My wife wrote the Wicked movies. Really? So Ariana has been like... 348 00:59:13.648 --> 00:59:22.078 My kids are like, "Oh, well she's our hero." And I'm like, "Yes. Correct. She is. You're welcome." But that's awesome. I will have to find her breathing list. That's awesome. Great. Rock and roll, man. It's awesome. 349 00:59:22.088 --> 00:59:32.438 Listen, Denzel, I can't thank you enough, man, for what you're doing and, and taking your time and sharing all that with us. I hope you win and crush this guy who walked out of the meeting. Just- Yeah... what a coward. 350 00:59:32.888 --> 00:59:42.588 Put that on your ad. I really appreciate it. Let us know anything we can ever help with, man. Absolutely. A- I'm happy to keep you updated on this water fight as well. I appreciate you having me on, for sure. 351 00:59:42.628 --> 00:59:50.528 Yeah, for sure. Oh, real quick. I'm an idiot. Give me your campaign details. Oh. I was gonna mention that, but Denzel McCampbell again, candidate for Detroit City Council in District 7. 352 00:59:50.968 --> 01:00:04.048 Folks can go to www.denzelfordetroit, it's all spelled out,.com. And also on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter as well. Okay. Rock and roll. We'll do that. We'll put it all in the show notes. 353 01:00:04.468 --> 01:00:11.508 Again, Denzel, thanks so much, man. That's it for this week, and I hope you loved these conversations and people as much as I do. 354 01:00:11.988 --> 01:00:24.178 Huge, huge, huge thanks to our partners at Run for Something for all of their hard work every day, but also to bring these conversations to life. As always, this conversation was produced and edited by Willow Beck. 355 01:00:24.588 --> 01:00:31.548 Reminder, you can find candidates who are endorsed by Run for Something and other awesome organizations we trust at whatcanido.earth. 356 01:00:32.168 --> 01:00:40.628 If you or someone you love is under 40 and wants to run for something at the state or local level but doesn't know what's available, head on over to runforwhat.net. 357 01:00:41.108 --> 01:00:52.948 And if you wanna know more about our work, read our newsletters and essays, check out our other podcast, or even get some of our awesome T-shirts, hoodies, stickers, or coffee mugs, head to importantnotimportant.com. 358 01:00:53.288 --> 01:00:55.387 Thanks for listening, and thanks for giving a shit.