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[upbeat music] This week's episode is presented by Beehiiv, the platform trusted by enterprise publishers like Newsweek and Time.

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Newsweek is in midst of an exciting transformation. With AI disrupting search traffic, they're building direct relationships with their audience through newsletters.

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And you can meet with Beehiiv's team of growth and newsletter experts today. Thanks so much, Beehiiv, for your support and partnership. Welcome to the Rebooting show. I am joined today by Kristen Haitman.

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Kristen is the Chief Revenue Officer and Senior Vice President of the Associated Press, where she oversees all global revenue functions, including sales, product, marketing, and customer operations.

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She joined the AP in 2022 after more than a decade at Dow Jones, where she held a series of senior commercial and transformation roles.

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She served as the Chief Commercial Officer for the Media and Marketing Solutions Group. She oversaw all advertising revenue globally for The Wall Street Journal, Barron's, MarketWatch, and Dow Jones' B2B product.

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And at the AP, she is responsible for modernizing the organization's commercial strategy, expanding its licensing agreements, and driving growth across both traditional media clients and emerging sectors like, I don't know, platforms, AI companies.

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I think I hit at the major things, Kristen, but I'm glad you're joining the podcast. Yeah. Thank you so much, Brian. Glad to be here. Okay, let's get into... because the AP is different.

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I'm used to talking to people at different businesses. The AP is a cooperative. It is owned by its, its member news organizations, and that structure is unique, and that provides a series of advantages.

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And just like Spider-Man, like our greatest strengths are oftentimes our greatest weaknesses, perhaps.

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But I think it's a-- this is gonna be a fascinating conversation because I think you guys are on almost like a reverse journey. It's like a reverse commute. Yes.

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Everyone's coming in one direction, and you're going [chuckles] you're going, you're going to Connecticut. Right. Right. Yes. So talk to me about the, the business model. I think I- Sure...

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basically got it, but give, give me the overview on why it's important to frame the discussion. Okay. Yes, and you're right, Brian. I would say that the AP is unique in the, in the media environment.

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We're primarily a B2B licensing business. Next year, »2026, will be the 180th anniversary of the AP. Yes, so we've been around for a very long time. Hundred and eighty. Yes, 180 years. And the AP- I'm doing math here.

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Yeah. Okay, keep going, and I'll do the math. Yeah, yeah. I'll do the subtraction. 18, 1846- Okay...

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was our initial year where the AP started as a news cooperative amongst five New York newspapers in terms of sharing costs, right? A lot of things have evolved over, over the past- Yeah...

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nearly 200 years that have changed the structure of the AP. But what's- You can say that. I mean, the, the distribution method- Yeah... is like horse. Uh, so yeah. [laughs] Well- The Telegraph... exactly.

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A lot of technological changes over the past- Yeah... 200 years, but, you know, one thing has remained consistent, and that, you know, that the AP is the backbone of the news industry.

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We license our content to thousands of news organizations and other customers globally.

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Throughout the US, obviously, the AP is in all 50 states, and we are-- have journalists on the ground in 100 countries and 250 locations throughout the world. Okay.

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So most of the business right now is it's a B2B business. It's a- Yeah... it's a, it's a data business at the end of the day, right? I mean, your news is the data, and you license- Yep... access to the data.

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And, you know, you've been doing this since the 1840s, right? And I, I feel like now, you know, data licensing businesses are obviously getting a lot more attention. I think the reason I said- Mm-hmm...

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the reverse commute is because in the AI era- Mm-hmm... I believe a lot of publishers are gonna have a larger line item, cross your fingers- Yeah... that comes from licensing because a lot of AI is going to...

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a lot of these AI chatbots and now they're with RAG, are gonna- Yeah... centralize, and they're gonna need access to, to data sources. And, and AP is, like, well-positioned, I feel, like, with that.

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So talk to me just to, to, to kick things off. And, and the re- I'm sorry. The re- the reverse commute part is, is because you're building a consumer-facing business now. We are. Right? Yes. Yes.

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So yes, I think while you're right, many or may-- many media organizations are gonna need to build larger licensing businesses.

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We already have a large licensing business that we're able to leverage now in the new AI space, but we're also, yes, building a direct audience relationship and a consumer business as well. Okay. Yes.

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So let's talk first about the, the B2B side. It's the majority, and maybe your customer base is- Sure... is changing. I mean- It is...

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historically, and I'm sure you always have to remind people, like, your customers- Yeah... are not, quote-unquote, just newspapers. They're not. You know? Yeah.

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So explain who the customer base is-- was historically, who it is now, and then how that is shifting.Sure. So I would say historically, yes, newspaper, particularly US newspapers, were a large portion of our revenue.

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Now, US newspapers are, you know, under ten percent in the single, single digits in terms of our revenue. But broad-broadcasters globally are an important revenue source for us.

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Digital news sites are an important revenue s-s-source for us, but also technology companies are important revenue source for us. Really, all information companies are important for us globally.

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Technology companies now are about fifteen to twenty percent of our revenue, and I would see that doubling over the next couple of years.

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Okay, so tech companies right now are almost, like, double what li- what newspaper- Newspapers are... publishers are. Yeah. But you think that in how many years did you say? Just kind of. Okay. I mean, a few...

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Like technology customers- I'll say five... Uh, well, yeah, sure. Five. [laughs] Technology, technology customers for us are a priority, right?

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We're focused on diversifying our revenue sources, but also diversifying our customer base. Okay. And, like, what, what is, like, when you say technology companies- Yeah...

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like, what is the typical deal that, licensing deal that- Mm-hmm... and give me, like, an example of the kind of deal that we'll get that will double that, say, in- Sure, sure, sure... three, three to five years.

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So technology companies have been customers of the AP for a long time. Mm-hmm. We license election data to them, we license images to them, and we license photos, other content, video.

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We also now license content to them for training of AI models, for their RAG and display layers also for their LLM.

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So tha- And that's where obviously we're seeing the growth come from and, you know, where the development is gonna happen over the next several years. Okay, you mentioned RAG. People- Yeah...

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I think I might have mentioned RAG. I like to do them 'cause it, like, makes me sound smart. Explain to, to people who are like, "Yes, RAG. Yes, exactly." What is RAG?

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[laughs] I would say for shorthand, it's, RAG is really about recency, right? Yeah.

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In terms of, you know, what's the most up-to-date information to make AI systems better informed and give more accurate answers back to their users and consumers. Yeah, so what happened today.

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Like what happened yesterday, that stuff's- Exactly... already gone, and [laughs] the, you know, whether you get paid for the training or not, the training's been done.

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And RAG is basically, particularly for the news industry, it's incredibly- Yeah... important because- Yeah... three out of the four letters in news are new. Yeah.

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And so I would, I would always remind people on my team [laughs] when I was an editor. Yeah. I'm like, "You know, the new is very important here." Right.

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'Cause if you scrape the web, you know, a month ago, but you don't have the most up-to-date information on what happened this morning, you're gonna be out of date, and you're gonna give people back bad information. Okay.

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So AI is a massive opportunity, I would think- Yeah... for this business because for a lot of publishers, you know, they have had very different businesses. Yeah.

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They have created news content, and they have looked to attract people, often through technology companies, to their properties in order to either sell, you know, individual subscriptions t- Mm-hmm...

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or to monetize through attention, which is through ads or affiliate- Mm-hmm... or something of that nature. This is, this is a different business that is, is clearly growing. You've already struck deals with...

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I mean, you have a deal with OpenAI. You have- Yeah... a deal with Google, and I think you're- We do... I think you're probably unique in that you might have the, do the most breadth of deals because the...

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I guess what I get to is the reason I think you're incredibly well-positioned, at least from a high level, is because, you know, you provide the raw material- Right... of news.

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Like, I always think, you know, AP content is, you know... I mean, historically it was called the wires. Yep. You know? Yep. And it was wire content. It was, it was fact, attribute, fact, attribute.

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It's not creator economy- Right... stuff. It's not Joe Rogan. No. It's not riffing. Right. Right. [laughs] Ex- Well, exactly. I mean, AP is the breaking news source for the global- Yeah... news media, right?

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I mean, we are often the first on the ground as eyewitness journalists to report on something, and that's historically been important for how people access information from broadcasts or newspaper organizations.

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But, but now it's important for technology organizations, right? And to have the most up-to-date information. And I would say the value proposition is the same on both sides, right?

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You want trusted information, you want reliable information. You want to be able to have someone who actually witnessed an event, right?

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So I think for u- for us, we are well-positioned because there's synergy on both sides. We're not changing what we do in order to license to AI companies. Yeah.

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It's the ex- it's the exact same report that we give to all of our global news customers, which, by the way, is unbiased, and that's always been a historical important element for the AP. Yeah.

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What we license to Fox News is the same as what we license to MSNBC, as an example, right?

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And it's gonna be the same as what we license to OpenAI because it's fact-based, and that I think is really an important element here too. Right. Because that's what I mean by the raw material, right? Yep.

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'Cause in the way I look at it, like, technology companies, when they see the media industry, you know, and they're very engineering brains, at least this is how I imagine- Yeah... it, right? They're like, "Oh, wait.

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So you guys are raw material, or you dig facts out of the earth like, like, you know, people in, in, are digging cobalt out of the earth," right?

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And then it's gonna be refined, and, like, we're gonna use the, the technology to refine it, and we need raw materials to refine it.

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By the way, when you refine cobalt and you make it into a phone, like, you know, a lot of the value is captured upstream of that. Right. And that, that is part of it.

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But, you know, I would think that, that these companies say, "Yeah, of course we need, like, credible, reliable-"You know, fact information. Like, I mean, we we need the cobalt, like, without a doubt. Right. Right?

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And and so we don't need a million different sources. Mm-hmm. And so that's why I, I would assume they're striking deals with... They- you guys go first, is because they don't need...

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I don't think they need, like, a trillion news sources that are, like, regurgitating the same information. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think they need a diversified content set, right?

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But do they need, you know, 100 news organizations with the same information? No. You know, I think our, our process, right?

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We did strike our first deal with OpenAI two and a half years ago in July of 2023, and we kind of had the same process for the past two and a half years, and it feels [chuckles] like it's been a long two and a half years.

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But for us, you know, we... It was really important, IP protection here, for us and for our customers, and getting a fair value for the content, right?

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And I think that fair value has been an education to a lot of these tech companies in terms of what it takes to create this content, right? I mean, we have- [chuckles]... staff, right? I mean, it's expensive.

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When I hear education, I think of a euphemism there. [laughs] Okay. Well- Krista [laughs] I mean- I like it, I like it. I like it as a euphemism. Yeah.

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Well, I, I, I would describe what we do as, like, we agitate, we educate- [laughs]... and then we negotiate, right? Okay, nice.

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And because I think that if you work for a tech company and you never worked for a news organization- Oh, yeah...

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you don't, you don't understand, you know, what it takes to actually have staff on the ground in Gaza, in Ukraine, in China, in really difficult to- Right... to get to parts of the world.

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Well, 'cause they think it's just yanking cobalt out of the ground. It- [chuckles] I mean, to me, like, it's just like- Yeah... okay, you're getting the raw material. We understand.

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We need the raw materials to, you know, refine it and stuff. Right. But you go and it's like, "No, no, you don't understand what we do. Like, we're going into Gaza. Like, you know- Right...

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people are getting killed, like, here." Yeah. "This is, like, serious business that involves, like, a lot of c- It's not just yanking, you know, a raw material out of the earth." Right.

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And it's not people sitting at their homes, you know, r- uh, pulling things out of the air. They're actually on the ground in these locations- Yeah... right? I mean, I think that's a really important element.

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So that, so that sounds like the classic bid ask super head problem. Right. Yeah.

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Which is, you know, I'm always reminded, like, you know, everyone, you know, believes their, their child is the perfect child and the most, like, handsome child, et cetera, and then, you know, others might have a different opinion.

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Exactly. And, you know, I think, you know, probably a lot of news publishers have run into this with, in their negotiations with- Mm-hmm... technology companies.

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Because technology companies, you know, not to paint with too broad of a brush, but they just see data sources, and they're like- Mm-hmm... "Okay, we've got to aggregate." You know, I think I get it.

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Like, beforehand we were talking about, about audio, before we got here, and I was like, you know, the producers have to zero in on, like, how do we get the perfect audio and stuff.

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But, you know, the rest of us are like, "Yeah, okay. Well, we'll make it work," right?

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And, you know, for, I think a lot of these technology companies, and tell me if I'm wrong in your, in your talks with them, they're like, this is one of many, many different data sources- Mm-hmm...

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that they are focused on, and they're, they're doing a variety of things in order to get the most reli- most up-to-date and reliable data. Not just the news. Right. This is way beyond news. Right. Yes.

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Yeah, no, I think that's, that's absolutely accurate. I think, you know, for all publishers, they've got to, they've got to figure out what their own value is in this space, right? For us, it's really clear.

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It's we're a breaking news organization. We are often the original source of information, and we know that's really important in this new AI ecosystem.

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So for us, we've put a value on it, and we've been able to do a number of successful deals across the space, some that are public and some that aren't. Yeah.

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But I think we, we have found our way through, basically, and continue to, continue to do so. How do you put a value on it, right? Yeah. Because, like, that is, like... You know, I mean, look, I'm, I'm sure- Yeah...

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and this is the bid ask thing, where- Right... I'm sure the technology companies are saying, "Yeah, this absolutely va- value here."

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I mean, all of us who are in sales see this, where people are like, "Oh yeah, no, that's totally valuable." Uh, when the number comes out I'm like, "No, no, no, that number that you have on the value- Right...

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is very different than the number that I have on the value." And in the ideal situation, it's determined by the market. It is. Uh- Absolutely. And I would say for us, because we are a licensing business- Yeah...

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I think we had a bit of an easier time originally, you know, wrapping our arms around how to put a value on this and what to value it against.

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Now, and I'll, I'll say too, you know, we have walked away from deals because we, we didn't think the value was there.

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So I think, I think it's often just a negotiation based on what we know about the use cases, and we don't always have full information on that, right?

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So I think, you know, in our experience, th- this is a long sales cycle, right? It takes many, many months, if not longer, to work through a deal with a big tech company o- on licensing content.

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So when you're looking at the overall value that the AP can provide to this broad array of, of AI companies, 'cause it's not just OpenAI and, and- Right... like Google. Like- Yeah...

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there's a lot of other companies that are- Mm-hmm... accessing- Yeah... and need up-to-date, factual- Yes... and accurate... I mean, they would call it data. Yes. Some, some of us might call it journalism.

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So wh- when you, when you look at, at...

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When you're talking to, to these companies, like, how, how do you end up thinking about, like, what a, what a good deal looks like, and what, what are the sort of-You know, for those who are newer into, like, the licensing space- Mm-hmm...

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like, what are, what are some nuances that you would highlight? So I would say we think about the scope of the license really carefully.

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Like, what can-- what are we allowing our content to be used for, and what are we prohibiting, right? So that's-- we try to have a very narrow scope to the license, if possible. We think about term length.

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Typically, obviously, that's important for everybody.

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Y-you know, over the past couple of years, we've often had a shorter term length knowing that this is a very rapidly evolving space, you know, and then-- and we think about the uniqueness of our content relative to others, and the fact that we own all of our content, right?

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I think that's also unique about the AP. You know, everything that we're licensing is AP wholly owned and all rights cleared. So I think that's been an important element for us, too.

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But, but the other thing I would say here, Brian, is that, you know, when I think about the value of AP's content today and the value of AP's content five years from now, I'm pretty confident the value of AP's content five years from now is gonna be far greater than it is today because of how many organizations, not just big technology companies, but really the long tail of companies that are-- that need content for their own proprietary LLMs and other systems that they're building.

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You know, it's kind of a-- it, it's a matter of how do we build that bridge between now and the next five years to ensure, you know, the health of the news and, and otherwise broader content ecosystem so that as many content providers can, can survive the next five years.

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Right. So when you're talking about like... Give me examples of the types of companies that are not- Yeah... like the big- Sure...

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like household names, but need access to this kind of content, particularly the RAG, right? Yeah. Like, so I think there's, there's archive basically- Yep...

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which is the backward-looking, and that has value to a lot of the LLMs and, and obviously they need up-to-date content.

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But there's an entire ecosystem, and it's growing, uh, because w-we're so focused on the infrastructure- Yeah... story at this point, which I-I- Right...

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you know, I can just re- getting flashbacks to the dot-com era where it was all about infrastructure, but, you know, you build on top of infrastructure. So there's an entire app layer that- Yes...

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that needs to be built and the-- and all of, all of those companies need access to this kind of fresh data.

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Yeah, no, that's exactly right, and I think we're starting to see marketplaces pop up to service those types of transactions, right?

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So AP has our content on the Snowflake marketplace as one example, which is heavily used by finance companies.

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So now we're able to transact with finance organizations who historically haven't been a big customer base for us.

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So that really opens the door to a whole new set of customers who need access to, particularly, I would say, real-time content. Yeah. But you're right, you know, our, our archive is also really valuable here.

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So what kind of finance companies? Like hedge funds? Like what kind of... So, so yes, hedge funds, but also, you know, traditional banks, but it's, it's even broader than finance, I would say.

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So we just a couple of weeks ago have announced that we have a new business unit, new solution set called AP Intelligence, for instance, and that's really our establishing a go-to-market strategy across a wide array of sectors.

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Not just finance, but anybody who needs data. You know, supply chain companies, risk and compliance companies, all sorts of different industries that are going to require this sort of data for their own systems.

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It's really interesting. So, like, let's talk about the consumer side then, because- Yeah... like, why not just focus on... Because it seems like you guys are really well positioned for this area.

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Again, it's the reverse commute thing to me- Yeah...

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'cause I'm like, everyone's in Connecticut trying to get into Manhattan, and you're, you're on your way to Fairfield because you're trying to-- you're also building a consumer-focused business, and you have been, you know- Yeah...

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for, for, for years now. So talk to me about like h- why th- about that diversification strategy- Right... because it's like the opposite of the diversification [chuckles] going on in a lot of- Well-...

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media companies... and yeah, absolut- you're absolutely right. And I'd say, you know, I think we recognize that media companies today have to have four or five different revenue strategies, right? So- Yeah...

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yes, AP News is our consumer-facing site. We've had a consumer-facing site for probably, you know, more than ten years, but it wasn't really invested in. It was kind of the very behind-the-scenes initiative.

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So a couple of years ago, we started to invest in AP News and, and the AP has always been the intel inside model, right? You didn't really always know that you were reading AP content- Right...

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but you knew the brand, right? So now we are investing in the brand, investing in the site.

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We saw white space in, particularly in the US news group of cu- group of sites in that there's white space, and you-- it's the same opportunity, I think you see the BBC and The Guardian recognizing that a lot of media, a lot of news media in the US has become more polarized, right?

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And the AP does not have any opinion content. We really report the facts, and you can make up your mind on what you think. So this has been a great initiative for us in terms of contributing digital advertising.

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It's also we have a donations element. The AP is a not-for-profit organization, so you can donate to the AP.

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I would, I would make the analogy that's a bit like our version of a subscription business, but more akin to what The Guardian does, again, in terms of soliciting donations from their audience.

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I think it-- we-- you can see us just building up a more direct relationship.

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The other benefit I'd cite, though, is that we now have a lot of data in terms of what people are reading, and there's a lot of re-reciprocity back into our B2B business.'Cause we don't get data back from our B2B customers [laughs] in terms of what's working.

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So we now have been able to do a lot of experimentation on AP News that then- Mm-hmm... benefits our B2B customers. It's a bit of a sandbox for us in that way. Okay.

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So we're like, so strategically, how important is, is that business? You know- I would- Because like it seems like- Yeah... you know, asking for donations, I don't know, I don't know how big that can get.

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Like, I don't know. It would, it would seem strange to me. Have you seen, have you seen The Guardian numbers? It's pretty big for them. Yeah. It's hard to... Okay.

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Well, tell me, like w- give me the case for, you know, I see, like, Vox, you know. I love Vox, but like, you know, they, they pop up and I'm like, "Maybe I'm the only person who knows how much money you guys raised."

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I mean, you guys are different, [laughs] so. Right. Right. But I'm like, why am I... I was like, "Why don't you go to one of the venture capitalists?" Is now you, you did, like... Yeah.

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I mean, so tell me the, the strategic- Sure... role it plays. So, yes. I would say AP News for us is an important part of our strategy, particularly on the revenue diversification side.

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But it's also an important part of us for the AP brand to be more of a well-known news brand, right? Right. Not just the intel inside model.

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So it's a marketing strategy for us as well, but it is one of the pillars of our revenue diversification.

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And yes, donations, I think for us, you know, I think we have hit a sweet spot of people who really want to, want to contribute to a free press, right? And that has- Yeah... been an important positioning element for us.

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Obviously, you know, we fight for the freedom of press around the world, not just for ourselves, but for our customers. And, and that's been a real... something that's resonated with the AP News audience. Okay.

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And obviously try to stay out of the sort of political fights. It inevitably, you get pulled in, right? [laughs] He... I never thought the AP...

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I mean, there's a lot of attacks on institutions these days, from the Fed on to the military and whatnot, but, you know, the AP style guide I thought would maybe emerge unscathed, but it got pulled in 'cause the AP style guide, I believe it is, I haven't checked it recently- Yeah...

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but it, it, it is still the Gulf of Mexico and the AP style guide. Yes. Yes. Yes, you're... Yes, you're right.

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And, and the AP, actually we have a, we have a hearing on Monday, November 24, for an update in our lawsuit against, against the Trump administration. And you're right, the AP never wants to be a part of the news.

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You know, that is, that's not our goal. But, you know, it is important that we stand up for freedom of press and freedom of speech.

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And, and that is what our executive editor, Julie Pace, our general counsel, and our Karen Kaiser, and our CEO, Daisy Barringtone-Hamel are fighting for. Right.

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But like you're seeing, I mean, like, overall, I feel like the AP has been able to mostly emerge unscathed from...

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Like a lot of news organizations are getting put into some kind of box, and it's like very difficult, some of which it's like, okay, I can understand, that's, that's how, that's how it really is.

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But in a lot of cases it's like, oh my God, like, this is like an impossible set of... Because it's being done for, for political reasons, and it's- Right... it's, it's not, it's not good faith in my view.

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[laughs] Well, I'd say there, like the importance of the independence of the AP, right? Yeah. That's what I think is unique about us, and that we're, we don't have a parent company. We're not a public company.

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We don't- Yeah... get government funding. Like we are an independent organization, and I think that's allowed us to really remain true to our values and principles. Right. Okay.

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So let's talk a little bit about, you know, there's a lot of talk about advertisers not wanting to be near news.

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I know you like talked about it, and, you know, I revisit the topic now and I almost feel like, you know, people were going on and on about it, like, more like in, like a year ago. I feel- Yeah...

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I don't know, like things seem like they, they've improved somewhat with a lot of these, like, blunt tools. But what are you seeing on, on that front when it comes to like, nobody can be against brand safety.

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Let's keep- Right... the brand safe. We all want the brands to be safe. I don't even know what that really means, but let's- Yeah... let's just, let's just do it.

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And at the same time, clearly the way that it was implemented was ham-handed, to be generous. Right.

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Well, yeah, I mean, I would say the brand safety conversation drives me a little insane because inherently news organizations are brand safe.

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You know, we invest hundreds of millions of dollars a year to have accurate reporting.

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There's all sorts of very simple ways to make sure ads are not targeted against things like natural disasters, or terrorist attacks- Yeah... or things that they would, of course, never wanna be aligned against.

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But yes, I think the news avoidance by advertisers, you know, is problematic for the overall industry. But do you see, do you see progress being made there, or is it the same as it has been?

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I mean, I think there's a recognition that advertisers need to support news organizations, and there's a reason to do so.

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I mean, and I would say in terms of the, you know, 50 word, 250 word block list that we used to, you know, receive with all sorts of, you know,

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ridiculous things like the word Florida being in a block list or things like that, you know, I think there's been some improvement there.

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But I think personally I'd like to see, you know, a greater move towards advertisers supporting news organizations. Right. Yeah. I mean, that would be nice. I mean, there's a lot of- Yeah... talk of it.

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So talk to me a little bit about this, the, the vote count- Sure... system and, and where that fits into this.

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'Cause I mean, I think again, you, you guys have a, a very interesting business that is different than a lot of publishers.So yes, and this is a very little-known fact, I think, about the AP, but, but for nearly all of our hundred and eighty-year history, since eighteen forty-eight, the AP has counted the vote in the United States.

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There is no federal system, believe it or not, that does this. It's really done at the local and state level.

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So the AP is the organization that counts the vote and declares winners in all races up and down the ballot, right?

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And we do so with nearly a hundred percent accuracy every time there's an election, and we deploy thousands of journalists throughout the United States to do that. Right.

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And it's-- I would say it's our, it's our first data business, right? Like, it's a very important- Yeah. It's an important element of what we do, and it's also really distinctive. No other news organization does this.

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Yeah. So what are other growth areas that you're focused on when you're looking at, at, you know, the areas that have the most, you know, the best prospects for expanding the AP's, you know, reach in business?

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So I would say a couple of things here, Brian, and it's a lot of what we've already talked about. Yeah. It is diversifying our customer base, and that is largely through using new technology and AI licensing.

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It's also about AP News and our diversification across digital advertising and donations. And then, eh, our election business is also in, in growth.

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Not just, you know, we are well saturated in terms of media customers globally, but that is also enabling us to reach new customers in different sectors outside of media. Yeah.

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It's really remarkable when you think about it that, like, newspapers are now, like, ten percent of- Yeah... of your revenue. Yeah. Right? Less than. Less than ten percent. You know?

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[chuckles] 'Cause I mean, that's a real... I mean, 'cause that's, you know, look, you're, you're...

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If you think about it, like a lot of, a lot of companies are, and organizations, like, are, you know, facing a, a lot of headwinds or whatever, you know?

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And like, your, like, customer base, you know, [chuckles] was basically, like, disappearing. Yeah. I mean, we've had to basically change the plane while it's being flown- Yeah... right?

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On a-- So that's, that has been a challenge for us, right, in terms of navigating that. But I think we're continuing to find our way through and, you know, have done so through a number of different initiatives.

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And as I said, I think m-media organizations now need four or five different revenue streams. The AP also has a software solutions business where we are a software provider to broadcasters through a product called ENPS.

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Mm-hmm. We have a production services business, right?

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We have all sorts of different things that, that we do for, yes, for news organizations who are our core, but also, you know, we're able to expand to other corporates and enterprises with the same solution set. Right.

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And so like, whereas like other news organizations w- may or, you know, media would- Right... diversify into events or something, uh, it's not- Yeah... like a big area for someone like the AP. No, we don't do events.

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I mean, which I, I think events are a great business for some news organizations. They require a whole different investment strategy and skill set- Yeah... than, than the AP is gonna do right now.

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Uh, so final thing is, like, let's talk about the use of, of AI within the organization. Sure. You know, I mean, I, I'm assuming that, like, you know, AI is not, is not writing articles at the AP.

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Maybe do some, some, some earnings releases. You know, the first, the first, the first one, which is, like, so and so or, like, that can be done by AI. Yeah. But like, what i-- Where are you guys...

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What is your sort of internal AI strategy? Like across- Sure... all organizations, I think we, uh, end up getting...

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Or all parts of the organization, a lot of times we get, like, hung up on, you know, "Oh, are the robots gonna write the news stories?" Whereas, you know, I think the biggest opportunities are not really that. Right.

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Yeah. No, I think you're right.

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And yes, the AP has used, you know, various forms of AI for ten years now to look at s- things like sports scores and earnings reports, but you know, we really think about AI across the organization in three pillars.

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The first, yes, is in the newsroom. You know, they are using it for things like translation, headline writing, you know, but nothing leaves the AP newsroom without a human editing it and looking at it.

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The second area, though, is across our products, right? We have added a lot of new tools and services to our core B2B products in terms of things like automated shot listing and discoverability of content.

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That's been a big one for us where we've improved search across AP Newsroom, which is our B2B product, so that across our archive you can just do a much better search than you previously could.

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And then the third pillar has really been about efficiencies throughout the organization, right? How can we save time by just using AI across teams like our finance team or our HR team, even our marketing team, right?

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So, so that's how we're thinking about it currently, across the newsroom, across our products, and then just efficiencies in the organization. Yeah. How are, how are you using it within your organ... uh, your- Sure...

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organization specifically? I mean, from a sales and marketing perspective, you know, we're using it to write a first draft of a pitch deck to look at- Mm-hmm... how are we researching customers before we talk to them.

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You know, really kind of some, some basic things like that that just save us a lot of time, but also do a much better first draft of something before, before a team starts to work on it. Yeah.

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So we're heading into, I guess we're in, like, twenty twenty-six planning. [chuckles] Right? So- Yeah. We're practically in twenty twenty-six. Yeah, I know. We're, we're doing, we're recording this in late November.

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[chuckles] So, uh, like, what are, what are the sort of five, like, key strategic priorities for twenty twenty-six for you?

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Well, certainly AI from a revenue perspective, but also from a organizational implementation perspective is one of them. You know, also... And, and I would say AI adoption in the organization- Mm-hmm...

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has been a key focus.For us, we're getting together our global leaders at the beginning of December, and that's a key theme of, you know, AI adoption throughout the organization.

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And then, you know, for me personally, just continued focus on revenue diversification.

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You know, our core customer is under a lot of pressure, so that in turn puts the AP under pressure, and we've got to continue to think of new ways of doing things.

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So when does your core customer become technology companies? Oh, gosh. That's a... I mean, if I had a crystal ball and [chuckles] could answer that- But that's the inevitable- Yeah, it is... like, direction- Yeah...

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isn't it? I mean, if you look at the numbers that- Right... you're just telling me now, if you're going from 20-- Like, pretty soon, your core customer is at, in some way, shape, or form technology companies.

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I mean, I always say it's like, I mean, you guys have never... To me, it's like, tell me if I'm wrong, but it's like y-you've been like, "Okay," like, "other people have distribution," right?

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"We're gonna, like, be suppliers." Right.

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And I think a lot of, just to go back to my analogy of the reverse commute, a lot of typical publishing organizations are dealing with incredible distribution pressures because they were reliant, particularly- Yeah...

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on search for, for distribution, and that has become far less reliable. And so they're looking to rebuild distribution channels, and it's, it's not, it's not, like, adding up exactly.

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But you guys are in a different position there in that, like, the technology companies control the interface layer, so they're inevitably, I would think, like, they're inevitably gonna be your core customer. Yeah.

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I mean, I think, I think you're right. That's certainly the way things are, are trending. That's why we're spending a lot of time finding and figuring out ways to work with them, right?

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I think that that's, that has been our strategy over the past couple of years, is how can we build up our relationships and the number of different ways that we work with technology companies, and I'd say technology companies of all sizes, right?

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Like, obviously, we've been very focused on the biggest ones, but as we look at the long tail, it's really about how can we develop relationships throughout the technology ecosystem and the number of different customers that then need information from us.

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Yeah. So I mean, like, so a lot of, like, news publishers are trying to be more distinctive, right? Like, and, and- Mm-hmm... I can see, I can see the argument being, well, we, we shouldn't be using AP as much, right?

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I mean, this is not... You, you have... A lot of people have access to this content. I mean, look, the broadcasters are, are do- are, you know, doing different things with that, that AP content probably.

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But, like, you know, running... You know, I would always think that with newspapers where I'm like, "Why do I need an AP?" Like, I mean, I get news from so many different sources.

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Why do I need the AP story of what happened in Gaza from, you know, the, The Miami Herald? Like, I don't... Like, why, why, why do I need that? Like, I mean, I guess they...

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It's, it's old role, like it was a bundle and, and that- Mm-hmm...

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but, you know, increasingly, you know, that, that bundling is probably gonna be taking place at a, on a, on a technology le- layer, not, like, on a news layer. So I'd say, you know, a couple of things.

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One, AP is, again, often the original source of information, right? And so our, our relationship with news, news organizations, though, isn't just about them running our content, right?

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We've got a lot of different touchpoints with them. Mm-hmm. We often serve as a tip sheet for them in terms of something that just broke, for instance, right?

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We often have a journalist on site before they do and can send them photos faster than their own staff can if they're there at all, or a video beforehand, right? It's not just about running the AP story, I would say.

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So I think the, the value of the AP in the ecosystem for news organizations remains just as true. We're also an insurance policy for them, right? I mean, in many ways, if their own...

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We are places their own staff cannot be or, or they can't afford to put them. Right. Okay, cool. That's all I have. All right, good. Well, thank you. I enjoyed this. Thank you, Kristen. [chuckles] This was great.

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It was great to hear about. I do think that the AP is, like, really well positioned for, for this environment. I don't say that to everyone 'cause I don't think it's true.

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[laughs] Well, I tend to agree with you, so yeah. Thank you. Yeah, sheer bias- Yeah... but I, I, I, I think it's true. Thanks again. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you so much, Brian. Nice to see you.

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