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Very excited to get this in with Sarah Personette. Sarah is the CEO of Puck. You're coming up on two years now- I am... as CEO. Yes, I've been here- Right?... for two years. Exactly right.
You know, I've always been, you know, interested in Puck. It, it is...
I think it's getting at something that is real in media in that everyone's trying to figure out how to have the, you know, the, the shift to, like, individuals, right?
And then to figure out a way to have the best of sort of institutional media with individuals, and I think that was really one of the f- founding sort of precepts of Puck, right? I think you, uh, nailed it.
John Kelly, the founder of the company, who's been on your show before, you know, he, he had a thesis that journalists were the original creators, and that subscribers and readers care deeply about that connection with the creator, with the journalists, bringing them sort of into, into their phone in order to learn about what's happening in the industry that they care about, in addition to also the connection points across industries, because Puck's sort of unique in that it's access to the inaccessible story that is happening in media, in politics, in Hollywood, in fashion, in art, in sports, and then also how th- at the upper echelons of those industries, there's so much connecti- connective tissue.
So each of those franchises are anchored by Matt Belloni for Hollywood, Lauren Sherman for fashion, Marion Maneker for art, and that is the, the, the culmination of John's thesis, and we've seen that, w- we've seen in the numbers from a subscriber growth perspective as well as in, I think, the, the commercial side of the business and advertiser growth perspective, that the connection with those individuals as, you know, journalists, uh, being creators has really panned out.
Yeah. I even saw some, like, playing cards with char- with, I guess, drawings of [laughs] I do- I don't know. I think my wife got, got a, got a, a thank you from Liz.
We have a, a game- [laughs] She did business with you guys. Yes. Yes, exactly right. We, we've actually done a couple of different games with the- Oh, is it a game? Okay...
with the profiles- I just saw it, like, literally before here. That's why I was mentioning it. I was like, "Oh." It's fun, e- because it, there...
We have one that is kind of, like, around the who Puck knows, and you have to, like, play different games in order to guess which talent is behind each of the different categories and sort of the stories that we're reported on.
But it goes back to your point, people have a deep relationship with the journalists that we put forward, and we put, uh, front and center, uh, inside of the company.
And I think the other part that's really interesting, which you do as well,
th- the, when the newsletter from Matt or Lauren or Ian Kreitzberg, who's our newest franchise with AI related to-- it's called The Hidden Layer.
You, as a reader, can immediately respond to Ian or to Lauren with a question, with a thought, with an insight, and so we're sort of breaking that fourth wall to create that connection so that you know where the story's coming from, you know where the news is coming from, and I think that gets a little bit at, at the evolution of trust in the broader industry for media and journalism today.
When you have a person who is the, the face and the repor- and doing the reporting and doing the actual writing, it's easier to trust that individual, and you're willing, and, and you're also, from business model perspective, willing to pay for it.
Yeah. And it seems like y- you're, you're moving into, like, franchises helmed by talent, right? Like, I mean, uh, and that's... uh, that to me is, is how you, how you square the two, right?
Like, I mean, having, like, a collection of people who are really good, like sub- at Substack or, or newsletters is, is, like, one thing, but there's obviously...
You're trying to, like, you're trying to balance a lot of risk, too, at the end of the day. I mean, one of the big problems is if, if one of the, the talent leaves, then, you know, you're, you gotta scrap it.
The, the best part of, of institutional media is you just, you, you just swap in someone else. You just hit on, I think, two interesting pieces.
The first one I [chuckles] will share is around Substack.A really interesting platform, and I think a platform that in many ways has democratized media and journalism and storytelling, and as someone who grew up in tech, I, I very much appreciate that thesis.
But it is a platform that is built for solo operators.
And for both journalists as well as for media companies, there is safety, security, and also I think opportunity in being able to be your own unique talent, like a, a Matt or a Lauren or a Bill Cohan, and have the support of a company that is bringing a growth team, a commercial team, a marketing team, an HR team.
And so I think that's where we have been really successful in recruiting talent that is in like truly the, the best of the best in each of these categories because they want to still have a singular voice, they want to be able to have a franchise built around them, and at the same time they do want that safety and security.
Now, what you were getting to in terms of the shape of the number of franchises and sort of the shape of these smaller businesses inside of the broader Puck portfolio, you are very much correct, and that is intentional.
So we have nine franchises now inclusive of The Hidden Layer, which we lan- launched this year, and then also I know we're gonna talk about this a little bit later, that also includes the acquisition of Air Mail, which we're working through- Mm-hmm...
that integration right now.
When, when the company first started, it was, you know, Matt driving Hollywood content, and that franchise is called, it's called What I'm Hearing, Morin with Line Sheet, Singular Voice for Line Sheet, and so on and so forth.
The only franchise that wasn't sort of a singularly anchored by a talent was our political franchise, and that's called The Best and the Brightest.
And we had more of what I would describe as like a galaxy of talent that reports on the coverage.
What we've learned over the course of the last couple of years is that the reader base is interested in more days of coverage, and they're also interested in more territories of coverage for each of these industries.
It's hard for one singular person to cover off on absolutely everything that's happening in- Mm-hmm... in Hollywood as an example.
I mean, when you get into the logistics of what's happening with, you know, very specific lawsuits in Hollywood and you get into entertainment law, Matt is an expert in that, but so is Eric Gardner.
And Eric Gardner is able to go one click deeper and offer that to our subscribers.
Kim Masters, who we brought on, is, you know, a legend in the space, and she's able to share what's happening at the top of all of the different companies across various studios.
If you look at Julia Alexander, she's really interesting because she is sort of a, a multifaceted athlete.
Because of her deep horizontal expertise in streaming and how streaming cuts across entertainment, it cuts across media, it cuts across the, this business of sports world, she actually writes for a variety of different franchises because the unique subscriber bases to each of those entities warrant her, uh, I think her real a- analytical mind and strategic mind around how, how the evolution of consumer behaviors and how business models are changing those industries and the specific impact on it.
So we're almost looking [mouth clicks] we're evolving the model to think certainly franchise first, but then you have specialists in each of the industries still anchored by the, the s- star talent, and then you have sort of horizontal talent.
Eric being an expert in legal affairs can actually weigh in on what's happening in the AI space right now. He can weigh in on what's happening in fashion. He can weigh in on what's happening in entertainment.
I don't know if it, it wasn't the original part of the thesis, but what was the original part of the thesis is that there is so much interconnectedness at what happens- Yeah... in all these industries.
And so now you're seeing the profile of the organization build out around that as subscribers demonstrate that that's of interest to them. Yeah. I mean, I would say it's become a little bit more traditional, right?
I mean, it's like a, it's like a more traditional media model that, than a collection of like individuals or like, you know, like a, a Barstool or, or even like The Ringer. You know? I think that's- Yeah...
that's different than, than what we're talking about here. The, it's an interesting comparison.
I, if I, if I take the question into brand strategy for a section, a second, like I always think about brand architecture as being there's, you know, a master brand with a series of sub-brands.
You're either a branded house- Yeah... or a house of brands. Right. I think the thing that is unique to Puck that w- will, won't change, right?
Is that our brand architecture is actually more of an equilateral triangle where you have Puck as one part of the triangle. You have- Mm-hmm...
the, the core talent, that sort of lead talent that anchors the, the franchise as a, a very important part of the, the brand architecture, and then you have the category or the like name of the franchise, the industry that they're in, whether it's again, art, AI, you know, so on and so forth.
Yeah. And for it to be a truly Puck offering, all three of those things have to be front and center.
There, there's n- not a world where we, where Puck can live and exist without having the anchor talent or the voice of the individual being present.And the same thing with the category or the industry not being present.
Those, those three things sort of always need to be true and we take that into the way that we even think about our experiential strategy.
For example, this morning we had the last of our series Puck Power Breakfasts down in DC.
Those are anchored by Leanne Caldwell, and we brought her on to actually anchor the best and the brightest, all of our political coverage this past January. Mm.
And she's been-- while we still have a stable of, of incredible authors that, that write for it, she's really that voice to the DC opinion elite that she sees each and every day on Capitol Hill, that she's convening in the Puck Power Breakfast over the course of each month.
And we make sure that she's front and center, Puck is front and center, and then ultimately, like, politics are front and back, front and center.
So I think it's a little bit different than the traditional media model because I think people- Mm... sometimes get lost, and I think- Yeah... sometimes industries get lost. Right. So let's talk about the business.
I, I feel like, you know, Puck started at, at the newsletter, like pe- at Peak Newsletter. It was probably Peak Newsletter.
It was like twenty twenty-one and, and there, there was a lot of attention on Sub Stack and newsletters in general. But I always think, you know, you, you can't stay...
Like newsletters as a business is, like, maybe for if you're just an individual. But to build, like, yes, and, like, f-finance and, and, and whatnot, you can, you can do it, but, like, uh, you have to go beyond
newsletters, I think. Talk to me about- It's a distribution mechanism. Yeah, yeah. But you also have to do more. You have to be multimodal in media these days. Like, you just... I, I, I feel like you can't just...
Anchoring yourself to text is, is a difficult proposition. And you guys have chosen podcasting. But tell, tell me about, like, podcasting as why that was... I think it's a natural in some ways.
I mean, I, I did, you know, newsletters and podcasting, so I [laughs] clearly see the connection to it. But wh-why, why, why podcasts? If I go back to the original start of the company, you are correct.
It started with newsletters as a primary distribution, and as you expand to the way that people wanna consume, and, and you and I were talking about this before we jumped online, in consumption of video, consumption of audio, consumption of text, if you wanna make sure that you're building for how the subscriber wants to consume in the moments and the free time that they have to consume, you do have to be multimodal.
So I, I, I completely agree with you on that, and that was a big driver behind how we expand each of these franchises while they're anchored by, you know, again, they're anchored by talent.
Newsletter is always going to be a core part of that offering. But similarly, then we think about how we expand to audio, how we expand to experiential.
We're also playing around with actually some different business models and revenue streams that are completely outside of the traditional media model, which we can talk about at another time. Oh, why not now?
That sounds really interesting. [laughs] Uh, it, it actually is really interesting, but that's for- [laughs]... for launch in twenty twenty-six. So, so more, more to come on that- I mean, you can't just drop it-...
but that hasn't been announced yet... like, "Oh, I got this really fascinating thing to talk about." But podcasting became a really...
wasn't, it certainly wasn't brain surgery, but became an interesting next way to connect with the audience. And so Matt had already had The Town, and we had The Powers That Be, which is anchored by Peter Hamby.
Really, that one, uh, that particular podcast does an excellent job of bringing the, the power corridors and, and sort of how all of these different categories, industries and, and really opinion elite sort of connect.
But then as we added Lauren Sherman with Line Sheet, as Dylan Byers gets more in, like, deeper and deeper into the media industry, we wound up thinking about how can we stretch those business and stretch access to subscribers and readers and listeners through that next, that next media solution.
And so we launched, we launched Fashion People last year with Lauren. We launched The Grill Room with Dylan, and now Julia Alexander has joined him as a co-host. We actually acquired, so this is an interesting thing.
In some cases we are building net new, and in some cases our growth is coming through, is coming through acquisition, so we brought Jim, or John Heilemann on.
He is, he has had a lot of success historically within politics, so that's been added to our portfolio, and we're supporting him there.
And, and then last but not least, when we introduced The Varsity, which is our business of sports franchise, it first started with John Ourand launching a newsletter, and then we very quickly moved into a, a podcasting structure for him, and he's actually our, our first pilot into how we think about video.
We're partnering with NESN, which is the New England Sports Network. Yeah, yeah.
And they're, they're our, our video production partner, and we're distributing through all of their different distribution channels and then also leveraging the audio. So I,
I think there's pros and cons to podcast models. There's been a, a run-up, I think, on the podcast, in the podcast world and everybody wanting to get into podcasts.
We're very specific around why we do a podcast, and when we do a podcast, it's usually to, to sort of stretch and sweat the assets of the thinking, the relationships, and the insights that our core talent have across these industries.
And then we will also take those podcasts at time, and we'll trans- and I think you do this as well, but we'll transcribe those because sometimes subscribers would actually rather read the podcast than, than listen to it.
And so it's really more of a, are we following the North Star of the consumer and their consumer habits and able to, and, and really wanna be able to deliver content to them in the way that they wanna consume it?I- Yeah And the only other add, now we really take with each franchise, we review those franchises on a biannual basis from a business metric perspective, and then we think about how do we extend and stretch to other channels like experiential, and we just let-launched our first round of premium ticketed events this past year.
Yeah, I wanna talk about that, but just on, on podcasting. Yep. Is it a good business on its own? Like, because- I don't think so... I, I think of podcasting as like, it gives leverage in different t- Yes... businesses.
It is my experience with it, is like as a direct, like, revenue driver, not great. But it, it...
Like, I know if someone listens to this podcast that they're more likely to take some kind of, like, action, you know, if I invite them to some event or some-something that...
'cause it builds, it builds some kinda rapport. And, and so that's how I think about it, but I'm just wondering, like, uh, do you see this as like a... Is it a good business?
I, I do not think standalone podcasting is a good business. I agree with you that it becomes a mechanism for connection with readers and/or subscribers and listeners, and it becomes another access point or window.
So there, again, there are some people who really love podcasts, and when they have a relationship with, oh, that's starts with Lauren through Fashion People, she talks about the work that she's doing and she's producing and sending, and if they're interested in that story that's going to be in the inner circle layer, they need to subscribe to, to that.
So in an interesting way, I think it is a creative platform for journalists, and I also think it's a relationship development tool between our talent and then the, the audience that they're trying to, to, to educate on, on a weekly basis.
But to- Yeah... to just do a standalone business, no, I, I would agree with you. I think there are the same faults and risks. Yeah. So why, why no-- Why, why has video not been more of a focus?
Why, why, why, why not, like, have Lauren do the TBPN of fashion? It's my idea for you. [laughs] Thank you. I, I'm, I'm gonna jot that down.
[laughs] It is absolutely true that video has been an explosive medium, not just for the last five years. I mean, from my time at Facebook, it-we were talking about the shift to mobile and the shift to video on mobile.
So these are our consumer behaviors that have existed and been s-strongly developed for a long period of time.
That said, I think that video is a, an expensive proposition to get into, and it is becoming more efficient over the course of time.
But if I zoom way out, I'd be happy to talk you through the, the five-year long range plan that we built a couple of years ago when I first joined, and really making sure that we are reinforcing our core, and our core being newsletters first and foremost, and then expansion to other channels within that franchise, making sure that we stabilize each of those franch-franchises and that they are margin accretive, making sure that we are growing our audience base across each of those franchise, and that we're generating real commercial demands because the audiences that this elite sort of o-opinion, uh, this opinion elites that are critical decision-makers in each of these industries are coveted by advertisers and coveted by marketers.
So if we can get those things right, then we start to get into the territory of testing expansion. And we've tested expansion into pods, we've tested it, and we're, and we're continuing to evolve that model.
We've tested expansion into a variety of different events, which we can go into, and we continue to evolve that model. And there is a world where we will...
We've started to test into video with John Ourand's and Nesson and, and The Varsity. We're gonna learn from that, and we're gonna take those learnings and then really probably start to scale at some point in time.
But right now, in the near term, when I'm thinking about how I'm, I'm financially running the company- Yeah...
I really wanna make sure that I'm, I'm, I'm appropriate in terms of the operational efficiency with which we are, which we, we, with which we are driving the business forward. Yeah.
I think, I think the conversation I had with John, he had said you don't, you can't own the waterfront, like, these days. Like, that, that is...
You know, and I think that's, it stands in contrast how a lot of these businesses are being built now versus- Yes... how they were, were built in the previous generation.
I, I think with that, the test and learn approach is really important.
So many com-media com- legacy media companies have gone all in on certain investments instead of starting small and, and learning what's working, not working, and then, and then iterating off of that, and that's the approach that we've really tried to be disciplined on.
So tell me about events. I mean, events are a big deal at a lot of media companies, publishers. I always say to some, some of them, the legacy ones, it's their, like, you know, legacy is not, like, analog anymore.
Legacy is a lot of digital media companies. I, I'm always, like, wondering. I'm like, "Okay, you're gonna do events now, and you didn't do them for, like, 12 years."
Like, that tells me that you're doing it not because [laughs] you really wanna do it. But and, and that's, look, a lot of these businesses now are heavy, like, event-driven.
And it's funny for me because I always came from B2B, and, like, events were, like, everything in B2B. They, they still are. And, and now I think the broader media world is, is gettingEvent fever.
Obviously congregating people is, is always, it's a testament to a brand. It has, it has, it has an economic function. You know? You- Yeah... depending on the event you do, like you, you- people go there to network.
You're, you're basically matching a, a buy and a sell side, you know, in, in... B2B's a, a lead generation business, so it's always been that way. And you guys are not B2B, right? But you're- We're B2P...
kind of elevated. We're business- What is it? Like B2P. You guys think business- Bus- yeah... to professional. I don't know. It's like- Business to professional... high-end B2B, whatever. It's South Tribeca.
I [laughs]... But tell me about how you, how you think about the, the events because you have different... I mean, one of the things that I find interesting about Puck is that you've got different media worlds under it.
So like the DC media world is, is a completely different beast from the rest of it. L- the Hollywood media world with the four-year consideration. And like it's...
Th- they're different types of advertisers, and the different, like how people do events in Washington, it's like, it's the one place where people love breakfast.
And, you know, there are then, you know, with, with all the awards in, in Hollywood, there are, you know, standard sort of event franchises. How are you thinking about events broadly?
The macro strategy for Puck really breaks down experiential into, to three different buckets.
The, the first one is our tentpoles, the second one is our thought leadership events, and our, our third one is really like our, our private built if sold events.
The, on the tentpole side, tentpoles are premium ticketed events. To your point, across all of these, the real power, I think, of Puck is its ability to convene.
So there is an element of that that is consistent across each.
But the ticketed premium events, we launched In the Arena, which was our sports summit this past year, and we also launched The Art of Influence, which was our art summit. These are full-day s- summits or conferences.
They are about 100 to 125 people. Our price tag is around anywhere between $1,500 and $2,000 for that, it, the entirety of that experience.
And it has been really successful in both the partnerships that we've been able to land. We worked with MoffettNathanson as an example for the In the Arena event.
It ha- it gives an elevated conversation, it allows for the networking that you just mentioned, and it really crystallizes, I think, for our subscriber base why they are subscribers to Puck.
So if you are a part of the inner circle, you get ac- early access to tickets, you get access to tickets at a, a slight discount from others. If you are just a, a regular subscriber, then you get access to tickets.
We actually did not sell outside of the Puck subscription base and the MoffettNathanson client base. And so that was a, that really made it premium in terms of the access to that type of offering.
Okay, so you had to be a subscriber in order to even buy the ticket? Correct. Okay. Correct. That's interesting.
And then on- Because I think one of the, one of the tough parts about ticketed events is you're kind of working against yourselves because everyone wants everything, right?
They want the ticket, they want the direct revenue, but they want the sponsorships. And like, you're almost working against, uh, yourself in some ways because the sponsors want the right people in the room.
Like, they don't want a lot of consultants. Sorry to all the consultants out there. I like you. But I'm just saying.
They, the, most of the sponsors want, you know, to be, to be reaching, like, influential people that they can hopefully sell things to.
E- I think that's actually why the premium price point, the nature of our partnership with MoffettNathanson, and truly just the audience that John Orans can, can convene, and then on the In the Arenas or on the Art of Influence side or our art summit, we partnered with Glenn Fuhrman's non-for-profit, and similarly, you know, we had Gagosian as our final speaker in, inside of that entire day.
The audience in both of those rooms was exceptionally premium. It was the people that, that we wa- you wanna be in the room with.
And I think that was dictated by a- a- again, really, like Marian's power to convene, John's power to convene. I, I think the, the core partnerships.
And then when you're putting it at a premium price point that only our subscriber base can access, you're sort of solving for that thesis that- Mm... marketers want to be in the room connecting with the right people.
So we were able to do that, and I think you'll continue to see us stretch within as we build out franchises.
Finding, finding the right white space to build that type of summit is important, but we have to have the, we have to have the right- Yeah... white space, and we had that.
With our thought leadership events, these are not ticketed events, but they speak to the market dynamics. And what you just mentioned earlier, DC is a, is a breakfast market, and they are- I love a breakfast.
[laughs] I love them. Breakfast is wonderful. Oatmeal- Yeah, you're obviously- Doesn't love oatmeal... gonna be going to your breakfast tomorrow.
I'm a little under the weather, so I might not go and make a super- It was today... spread event. It was this morning. No, there's a, there's one tomorrow. It's on my calendar. The private conversation with Orchestra.
Oh, that one. That's with, that's with Orchestra. I was just- See, no, you're into events. I, well, I was like, I was like, "Oh, dear. I thought you were talking about the Puck- No... Power Breakfast down in DC." No, no.
And I was like, "You missed it." No, I don't go to Power Breakfast. "It was this morning." I go to, I go to the Media Nerd ones.
[laughs]But, but with that one, it is a series where we're convening the political elite across that market on a monthly basis and bringing in different speakers. But it's not a ticketed event.
It really is about the networking, and it's about the ability to have access to Leanne.
It's about the ability to have access to the, you know, the, the, the powerful people and the influential people on K Street, and to also have access to the, the editorial content that's being brought forward.
We do the same thing in s- in Hollywood with Matt. We introduced Stories of the Season, which is a thought leadership event- Yeah...
around the Oscars and the Emmys, and that's the power to convene guild members and voting members for the Academy and, and, you know, across the different FYC periods.
But it, it would not work if it was a ticketed event.
It works because there is an editorial integrity in the way that Matt's programming that, and there's editorial integrity in the way that Leanne is programming the P- Power Breakfast that really makes that particular layer work.
And then I come from a world, actually, where I, I have seen that when a P&L gets over-rotated to events, it's actually the downfall of a media company because then they become an event company, and they're no longer- Oh, yeah...
a media and a content company. Talk to me about that. And so we guard- Because I think a lot of people will be in that... I know what you're talking about, but, like, the... You know, look. Yeah.
This industry chases, they, they chase the short-term revenue, and, like, you got to, right? And, you know, like, your colleagues at Semaphore, they're, you know, full, full on, like, event, event, event, event.
And I get it. That's like, you know, when... The last company I worked for was, like, uh, 85% of the revenue was events. I get it.
But that is an interesting point about being a media company rather than, uh, Edward Henry Blodgett had, had called Digiday. He said, "You're an events company with a website."
Being so very- I think he meant it as a compliment. [laughs] Yeah. I was, I was like, "Gosh, I don't know how to take that." [laughs] I have, I've no judgment against that. Look, I, from my experience, and
you just shared the example of Semaphore, and they might actually be in the business to have a long-term strategy of wanting to be an events company.
We are very clear that we are a media company, and being a media company and thinking about the long-term growth of this company and the reason why it was valuable to have a five-year long-range plan is that we are committed to methodically growing while very diligently protecting, protecting the strength of Puck's brand and our- the Puck's brand equity from dilution.
When you start to do thousands and thousands of events, and you over-rotate your, I, I think over-rotate your, your revenue dependency on that vehicle solely, you actually, you, you start to burn through your margins.
It's not a... A- and we run our e- experiential business with a, a very diligent mind to margins, but not everyone does that.
So you introduce an event in order to drive top-line revenue, and then all of a sudden- Yeah... you have a, a very, very messy P&L. So this is why as we...
The horizontal strategy of, you know, thought leadership, tentpole events, and sort of built-if sold private experiences, that gives us a framework to plug into each of the categories that we're in and consider- Yeah...
with that franchise lead, hey, a- again, what, what problem are we solving for the market with this programming?
If we're not solving uni- if we're not uniquely solving a, a problem in the market then, then we're not gonna get into the experiential part of the business. Same thing with podcasting.
We don't have a podcast across every single franchise and every single category because we- Mm... might not be solving a specific need in that market, and, and that needs to be true before we venture into it. Yeah.
So I'm sure you're gonna give me incredible details on the P&L, but I gotta ask. You know, it was primarily a subscriptions business when it started, but then also did really well with, with advertising.
Like, what are you willing to, like, paint as far as, like, what the, the, the revenue breakdown is now? So o- total revenue, we had a, a wonderful year, and we're really, uh, uh, really proud of that.
We grew about 40% in total revenue. Our commercial revenue grew about 30%, and our subscription revenue grew about 50%. So- Oh... all in line with the, the sort of long-range plan goals. And to do a...
like, take a really quick step back, within our strategic plans and our, our- But is subscriptions, like, a m- bigger? Is that, is it the largest, like, revenue line? Commercial is bigger than subscriptions. Okay. Yeah.
And that is a part of our strategy. When you look at just the, the- When you say commercial, you mean like ads? Advertising, yeah. Okay.
Advertising across newsletters, across display, across experiential, and across podcast.
So for the, the various, you know, various channels that we just talked about, there's the opportunity to do advertising placement in each of those.
And then within the subscription revenue, we have two type, we have two tiers.
We have an inner circle tier, which is at the 250 range, and then we have a just regular subscription, which is anywhere between 100 and, and 150.
We, uh, new, new subscribers are at 100, and then over the course of a few years, we then look at stair stepping into $150 as we add on more authors, more content, more accessibility to different things.
But yeah, we've had-In line with our goals, they, at, at a m- strategic level, we focus every year on audience growth, revenue growth, operational excellence, and brand protection.
And then underneath that, we have as, a, really a, a, a specific financial model that says, "What does our top-line revenue growth need to be?
What's the breakout between subscription revenue and commercial revenue and/or new lines of business?" And then with that, we then do projections for the, the forthcoming years.
And then on the operational excellence side, what's really important, we're not, um, not gonna share m- you know, sort of how we think about margins a- and those types of things.
But at a macro level, what I think is helpful to understand and why we have a different approach to the, the economics of the business versus maybe legacy media companies is because we are, we very cleanly look at our revenue per head as well.
So we wanna make sure that we're running the company as lean as possible with the appropriate amount of redundancy, but this drives us to solve problems through, uh, solve problems through process changes and through structural changes versus always trying to solve problems with additional people.
And I think that's, that's one of the benefits of having learned from studying the industry for a long time. Yeah.
I mean, that's how I remember, I think Jake Sherman from, from Punchbowl was on this podcast talking about their revenue per head being over a million. I'm like, "That's the new flex, not, not the Comscore numbers."
Like, I mean [chuckles] if you can have like, you know, revenue per head over a million, that's, that's good. Absolutely. Tell me about Airmail.
You know, we, I, we delayed this podcast till, till the Airmail deal finally closed. My friend Lachlan was, was, was [chuckles] was dribbling it out, like, as, as it was happening.
What is, what's the, what is the logic to this from the Puck side? Because it seems the, the business, from everything you say, you know, had a tremendous year.
And, you know, Airmail is, you know, is an interesting, is an interesting property, right? Really un- unprofitable, has no track record of profitability. Uh, you, you own retail now.
[chuckles] Actually, I, I saw you have a newsstand in Milan, I saw, so congrats on that. I mean, I am pro- Yeah... newsstand, to be c- clear.
What's the logic behind it, and why is it worth the, the, the headache or the risk? We are thrilled. I mean, I'm genuinely thrilled to have Airmail in the Puck portfolio.
It's been about six weeks since the acquisition, and so we're, uh, definitely in that post-merger integration stage.
But to, to kinda step back for a second, I, I will say first, these are two very complementary brands that both have access to an, an upper echelon of audience, and yet at the same time really don't have a ton of, of overlap.
So when I think about heading into 2026, one of the core parts of our long-range plan is that we were going to protect the core, which is our core business, and then we were going to reinforce through expansion.
And we were in market, so John and I were in market this past year looking for what were the players that could actually fulfill our investment thesis or our value creation thesis.
And that thesis sits in sort of three areas. It sits in subscription synergy, cost efficiencies, and then category expansion. And subscription synergies, really plainly, were very clear.
There is very little overlap between the Airmail audience and our audience. Very little in, in terms of, like, a, a paying subscriber base, which is important to the, you know, the overall audience growth metric.
When you look at content coverage, this acquisition very clearly and authentically got us into a category that we have not been in before. Uh, we are, are not in, like- You mean like luxury...
culture and society, really. Like culture- Okay... society, wellness, luxury. We, if you wanna get into the advertiser space, we have luxury. But that's what I mean. Like, I mean the advertiser- Yeah...
side, it's like you, you, you guys do a lot of the corporate social responsibility stuff.
A- and we actually have a ton of luxury advertisers, and we now with the Airmail acquisition have a, um, their portfolio of luxury advertisers is, is exceptional.
So we're now in the process of talking to them and bringing them over as well.
But it does open us up to content that fulfills a need for luxury advertisers because it is about, it's very sophisticated, global in nature stories and storytelling that cuts across, you know, uh, we always say there's, there's a little bit of, like, criminal scandal that's associated with Airmail.
There's a little bit of what is happening in the beauty and the wellness space that's really alluring. There are just so many topics that are a little bit more consumer in orientation than- Mm-hmm...
what we have done during the middle of the week that's more of a professional offering by category.
And we've taken a different approach prior to this over the last couple of years of acqui-hiring smaller substacks into, in order to break into different categories.
We acqui-hired Marianne Maniker'sArt Sub Stack and now he anchors Wall Power we could do that in, i- you know, through lots and lots of small acqui-hires.
And w-we will certainly leverage that as a part of our strategy but this was a transformative M&A deal that helped to deliver on that, that really important part of our strategic pa- plan of reinforcing expansion through acquisition.
And then a-again, with s- the synergies from a subscription perspective and the category piece, that mattered. But the third part that I had mentioned was operational excellence.
And w-we are able to look at that business, and through the process of, you know, diligence and, and, and really a series of l-lots and lots and lots of meetings. As you know, M&A is not...
It's not, it's not a singular meeting. It is r- it, uh, really is a, a long process- Mm-hmm...
and was amazing to work with the Airmail team on the other side and, and the bankers on the other side as well with Rain to come to the conclusion that we can operate this business as a part of the Puck portfolio, still delivering the same, same design aesthetics, still delivering the same premium editorial content, still delivering the same commerce experience, but we can find synergies across the company that allow it to move to profitability faster, and, and that's really what, what we have wanted to do.
As a, as an example, and Brian, we're, you know, sharing this here with you first, we're really proud to be able to say that we're exiting a year with, uh, over 100,000 paying subscribers, and that...
This is a, an important- Wow... acquisition in that process to be able to, you know, drive that type of audi-au-audience growth in a, a singular acquisition. So it's a...
It's really, I think, it's an exciting and transformational- Yeah... time, I think, for both companies. And so but these are gonna be, these are gonna be separate subscriptions. They are not.
Over the course of time, they will be a- Okay... singular subscription.
Right now, we will run both subscriptions as separate, and then over the course of the next six months, we're actually gonna be unifying the tech stack, and we'll be thinking through the unification of the, the subscriptions so that a Puck subscriber gets access to Airmail, and an Airmail subscriber gets access to Puck content.
We feel like that's a creative, in when I think about value creation, and I always...
I'm always thinking about for, for our subscriber, how do we make sure that they have access to the content that they want to have access to, and that they can s- can discover it as easily as possible?
This now opens up a whole host of really interesting content that, because of the, uh, the elevated and sophisticated nature of both audiences, there's real interest that both will have in cross-pollinization of the content.
[lips smack] And the other part of this acquisition, which was really a, a, a fun surprise, I think, in, in the middle of the diligence process, was meeting with Airmail's C- original CTO, who Graydon had hired.
He is exceptional. His name is John Tournay. He built a, an, an, really organically an entire content management system from scratch.
And I remember the days when, [chuckles] when content companies thought, like, the CMS was their... It was, you know- Yeah... the, the, the hallmark of their enterprise value.
That's not w- that's not what we're doing here, but it is a really outstanding system that makes us more operationally efficient, and, uh, as a, as a company, and is going to allow us to drive personalization in a way that's been needed for Puck subscribers and then, uh, and then additive for Airmail subscribers.
So it will- Yeah, that's gonna-... eventually become one. Yeah. That's gonna be an interesting process though, right? Because there's a price differential because- You-... Airmail is, like, is 80 bucks, 79.99. Yeah.
You're, you're- And, and you're gonna move these people up, you know... You can look at a $30 or, but y- or you're, you know, you're gonna move them up by, like, 40%.
So- The pricing strategy work is a, is running in parallel to the brand work and the technical work so that we can make sure that people feel like they are getting...
That as we stairstep pricing, that it, that it's- Yeah... it's ef- it's effective relative to price sensitivity. A-and s- so you're, you're completely right. It's a- Yeah...
it's, it's an important part of, of our strategy. So how are you gonna... I mean, uh, the Airmail brand is gonna remain, right? It's not gonna become- Yes... i-or it's not gonna become like a franchise of Puck?
No, it will become a franchise of Puck. Oh, okay. And so as we are w- I mean, like your other franchises, like, like what I'm hearing, like that kinda thing.
W- I would think of Airmail as being our core franchise that is speaking to,
truly, like, the, this cultural part of society, and that is a, a, a brand that will continue to deliver the same content that they've delivered.
It will continue to deliver the same es- brand aesthetic that, uh, is, that they have been known for and loved.
I mean, it's truly, I think, one of the reasons why there's, there's so much loyalty is because the experience is, is so stunning.
But it will be a part of the Puck overall master brand and becomes a franchise so that w-when you subscribe, you're able to access, you're able to access- Yeah... the content.It's a tricky thing, right?
Because, I mean, it's like when you're in the M&A, it's like, oh, there isn't much overlap, but then that works against you because that means that the-- maybe they're just totally different, you know, readers.
They're, they're just interested in different things. And so, you know, introducing Airmail people to Puck content is one thing, and then Puck people to Airmail content. 'Cause, I mean- The-...
they would've, they would've, like, subscribed already. [chuckles] Well, I- Right?...
I, I think a part of it's discoverability, but I, I think you just nailed a part, a-an important part of a, a growth and loyalty strategy.
So when we look, the, the learnings we have across our franchises on the Puck side is that we do expose people to content.
Even-- you might only be subscribed to Lauren Sherman, but if there is a story that we think is relevant to folks in the business of fashion, for example, Bill Cohan is in finance, but he writes a lot about Sachs.
And so there are times where that content will populate Line Sheet and will populate Lauren's, Lauren's newsletter.
I think there is a world where there is Airmail content that will be of interest to the, to different readers across the various franchises on the Puck side, and vice versa for Puck through to Airmail.
But we are not just making that shift immediately on day one.
We are going to take the time to learn about each of our, to learn about the su-subscriber base, and then also technically be able to make sure that you can personalize if you wanna learn about Wall Power and, and you're originally coming in through an Airmail subscription- Yeah...
that you're able to do that, right? This is-- this gets back to the an-initial setup of our conversation. It's so important to give people and, and subscribers the experience that they wanna have.
And, and so we're- Mm-hmm... being really thoughtful about how we step into the cross-pollinization of content across those, those audiences. Yeah. And it'll also be interesting managing the sort of edit.
Like, there's... I, and I-- John's a great editor, right? But, like, there's- Yes, phenomenal... there's, like, a lot of, there's Puckisms, right?
And, like, so I'm, I'm interested to see if they'll start to appear in, in Airmail or how you keep that editorial sensibility, which is... I think they're, they're, they're somewhat distinct, really.
And I don't know, I don't know if it matters as much anymore, but you can have slightly different brands.
Julia Vitale, who's our-the, the new editor-in-chief, she was brought up by, by Graydon and just has an incredible sensibility.
And I think she is the r-really the right leader at the helm of this next transition because she understands that the core DNA of what has worked for Airmail over the course of the last six years, and then at the same time, she is a, a really wonderful entrepreneur who is, is really leaned into, okay, what can we learn from best practices and how we operationalize and scale a media company as well?
So I'm, I, I feel like we have the right strategy in place, but strategy is only as good as the people that you have to execute it, and we have an incredible group of people that have, have joined us from the Airmail team.
But again, it's the reason why you, with any post-merger integration, you don't just flip the switch on day one. You really have to be thoughtful about where you believe- Yeah...
there are areas of opportunity, and then we're gonna test and learn into that because we wanna make sure that the subscriber experience is the best it can be. Yeah.
And that the advertiser experience is the best that it can be. Yeah. I mean, look, you were at Facebook, like Instagram, right?
Like, I mean, Instagram was, like, left on its own for a while, and then, like, it slowly merged [chuckles] in some ways but then still s-remained Instagram.
And it was, like, probably a textbook for, you know, successful M&A, really. Brian, it's funny that you bring that up.
I mean, I, I was brought back to Facebook to, to basically lead how the full family of apps and services gets brought- Yeah...
to market, how they remain distinct, and then also how you create the operational efficiencies to drive those businesses forward. Yeah.
People complain that they had to, like, log in with their Facebook or something for, like, a couple days, and then people just move on. [chuckles] They're solvable problems. But, but having- Yeah... the, having,
I think, the line of sight and the North Star to wanting to ensure it is a great reader experience and that it's a great advertiser experience, tho-those are gonna be the, the, the principles with which we, we move forward in, in tackling this, this incredible opportunity.
It's, uh, it's, it really is the- Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a special, it's a, it's a special piece of, or a special portfolio, I think, add for us.
Is this like, do you, do you expect to have, like, a portfolio of brands like this? Or, I mean, 'cause this is, this is different than, like, your, your franchises, and this is new.
I think we will continue to look at a balance of organic and inorganic growth, and we will continue to use the investment thesis in evaluating businesses and looking at, is there a benefit from a subscriber file perspective, does this get us into a new coverage territory, and can we operate the business more efficiently?
If I find more entities like that, I think it, it would make a lot of sense for us to continue to add them to the portfolio. But I will sha- I will say that in that that's long-term thinking.
I think in the near term, getting the integration right is so critical, and it is the thing that most companies, I think, miss, is really taking the, the time and the care to think through, what does this mean for people and culture?
What does it mean for technical integration? What does it mean for product go to market? Like, these, these things are all
missed oftentimes during the, uh, the, like, buying process, and then, you know, you quickly move on.
And I, what I'm really proud of this leadership team on is that we-we've taken the, the execution, the effective execution of this integration really seriously so that we can come out of the next, you know, six to twelve months with a, a holistic company that is really strong, and Airmail being one, you know, one core growth lever in that.
Right. Okay, awesome. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for taking the time, end of the year. It's the last recording, so we got it in. I feel very happy that I got to be your last recording.
[upbeat music] All right, thanks so much. Thank you. Have a great holiday. [upbeat music]