WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:04.260
[on-hold music] Welcome to the Rebooting show. I am Brian Morrissey.

2
00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:11.700
We are kicking off a series of podcasts over the next couple of weeks from an event we held last week in New York City in collaboration with WordPress VIP.

3
00:00:12.200 --> 00:00:19.580
We gathered together seventy-five or so product leaders, publishers at WordPress's soon-to-be former offices. They used to be home to Tumblr.

4
00:00:19.990 --> 00:00:25.040
In order to discuss the challenges and opportunities facing product leaders and publishers today.

5
00:00:25.400 --> 00:00:33.000
I mean, obviously a lot is in flux at the moment, which leaves product departments with the conundrum of what to build and to what purpose.

6
00:00:33.180 --> 00:00:40.680
We just released a research report, also done in collaboration with WordPress VIP, to assess the state of product at publishing companies.

7
00:00:41.140 --> 00:00:51.400
We found that many publishers are facing the challenge of trying to nail the basics to serve real business goals at a time when everyone pretty much has to do more with less.

8
00:00:51.900 --> 00:00:58.120
And that means focusing on things like site performance, first-party data, and personalization over flashy new features.

9
00:00:58.540 --> 00:01:09.930
In a report, Bloomberg Media Head of Product, Marissa Zanetti Croom, told us, quote, "We're sitting across all of the businesses within media and thinking critically about how well we understand who our audience is.

10
00:01:09.980 --> 00:01:18.460
How do we make our news truly relevant and timely? We talk directly to subscribers about that. It's what inspires the design and product work we do."

11
00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:24.140
I dug into this and more with Marissa in the following conversation we recorded last week at the Media Product Forum.

12
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:40.380
We discussed how product is organized at Bloomberg, how it is impacted by being part of a larger organization that at its heart is really a product company, why Marissa is something of an AI skeptic, and what Bloomberg was trying to accomplish with its recent homepage relaunch.

13
00:01:40.820 --> 00:01:51.700
Thank you again to WordPress for its partnership in the Media Product Forum and the State of Product Report, and also to bringing these conversations to the Rebooting show. Be sure to check out the report.

14
00:01:51.770 --> 00:01:58.160
I will leave a link to it in the show notes, and you can always find it on the Rebooting's website. Now on to my discussion with Marissa.

15
00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:17.870
[on-hold music] [audience applauding] Okay. Hi. Hey, everyone. Yeah. Good. Marissa just had, like, several cups of coffee, so she's raring to go. I'm good. I'm good.

16
00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:28.080
So Marissa, you are the, the Head of Product at Bloomberg. Correct. I think one of the interesting things that I think about when I think about Bloomberg is that it is a product company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

17
00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:38.400
How does that change... First of all, how is product defined within Bloomberg? Because I think a lot of times it can mean lots of different things in different organizations. So many things.

18
00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:43.500
And I think it's, it's true, and I appreciate your comments earlier about alignment and trade-offs.

19
00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:53.920
Like, our team, I, I really see us as sort of the central focal point of, of everything that the business is currently touching. And, and we represent our users, and then we also support our revenue streams.

20
00:02:53.960 --> 00:03:05.080
And so you can imagine our team is really critical to thinking about how we're building the future of the business in a way that I think is really exciting and really critical to how we're thinking about it.

21
00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:11.299
And so I think it's been great to see some of the, you know, core parts of being a product manager.

22
00:03:11.380 --> 00:03:18.359
So it's like really understanding your user, understanding their pain points, thinking about how we use data, and all of these things I think are really just infusing...

23
00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:28.070
You know, exist, you know, existed at Bloomberg before. And so it's been, uh, a great opportunity for us to really think about how, how we drive and how we build. So what...

24
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:31.049
But what rolls up within the product organization? Yeah.

25
00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:45.800
So we support what we call sort of digital engagement, which is really looking across all of the platforms that our customers touch, so our core website, our mobile app, our video products, audio newsletter, so all of those extensions that our users are really touching.

26
00:03:46.200 --> 00:03:57.600
And then we also support our events business. We support our commercial organization, and then we support our data infrastructure. So really thinking about how, how our team really we're, we are both...

27
00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:11.600
I think we're both horizontal and verticals, where we're thinking about how we grow our audience base, how we grow our subscriber, but also how to really, really support and underpin some of the core foundation that, that's driving our business forward.

28
00:04:11.660 --> 00:04:21.820
Our CMS is a part of that, which I know we'll talk about as a group. But we're, we're really across the whole organization, which I think is a really powerful place for a product team to be. Yeah.

29
00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:32.840
So how did you get into product? Oh. [laughs] It's not a major in college, right? [laughs] No, it, it definitely was not. I will date myself to say I don't think it existed when I started working.

30
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:42.090
I started my career editing history textbooks, which feels like, man, Stone Age. I think you made the right choice. Uh, well, you know, it was one of those things.

31
00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:48.120
I sort of feel like whenever you talk to people in product, a lot of folks have great stories about how they just fell into product and fell in love with it.

32
00:04:48.500 --> 00:05:06.120
And it was a little bit of right place, right time when it was as that industry was really shifting from a very print-based world to students and teachers starting to use more, like, digital technology and thinking about how technology can help learners with different styles learn and read and consume, uh, information.

33
00:05:06.170 --> 00:05:15.120
And so that's really been my path into product, and I think is really what's keeping me inspired to, to continue to work and then work in the, the media space and the news space. Yeah.

34
00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:24.080
So what do you think the sort of the future... How will the, the job that product does, how will that change in the organization in five years?

35
00:05:24.700 --> 00:05:33.910
I mean, if you ask me how is that gonna change in the next week, I don't know if I could answer that. But I think, I think what you said about audience and knowing your users is gonna become more critical.

36
00:05:34.060 --> 00:05:45.660
I think we're working and living in a time where subscriptions flood the market, and so there's so much choice. And so we're really thinking about, in a world of choice, how do we stand out? What is the value?

37
00:05:45.760 --> 00:05:46.900
How do we differentiate?

38
00:05:47.010 --> 00:05:59.700
And I really think product is the vehicle within an organization who can both sort of work with the, the newsroom or work with the organization at large and really bring alignment around that audience and who we're serving.

39
00:05:59.740 --> 00:06:03.244
And so I think-That will stay the same.

40
00:06:03.324 --> 00:06:14.264
I think the things are gonna change are gonna be the kind of product that we build, the platforms that we're on, how we think about revenue models as sort of like the business and sort of human behavior change over time.

41
00:06:14.324 --> 00:06:24.004
So let's talk about how you decide what to build, right? Yeah. Because even like anyone who has not been to the Bloomberg Tower, I highly recommend it. [laughs] They have amazing snacks.

42
00:06:24.444 --> 00:06:35.664
They, they, they have a very strange thing where they, they keep your photo though on file, and so you get to like confront how, how, how much older you've gotten a-and when you return. [laughs] But anyway, great office.

43
00:06:36.024 --> 00:06:46.704
But how do you decide what you're gonna build? Because even like, you know, as part of Bloomberg, a lot of, you know, advantages to that, but, you know, I do think we're moving into a more with less era.

44
00:06:46.724 --> 00:06:58.634
And then on top of that, a lot's unclear about what the shape of this business looks like in five years. Like I, I- Yeah... I spent Cannes asking people like, "Okay, well what's your business look like in five years?"

45
00:06:58.674 --> 00:07:07.264
Yeah. And I got, "Oh, come on. I don't know." Who knows? [laughs] We'll figure it out as we go. So but, but how do you decide what to build and what i- what, what are the priorities? Yeah. Yeah.

46
00:07:07.404 --> 00:07:23.124
I mean, I think for us, one of the things that we've really made a concerted effort around is to keep the user at the forefront of what it is that we are building, and thinking about what it is that we need to be successful, how do we serve those users, and then what moves from that.

47
00:07:23.304 --> 00:07:29.903
I think a good example is, you know, we-- earlier this year, we launched a brand new homepage. It was like, why the homepage? Homepages are back.

48
00:07:30.004 --> 00:07:38.524
But it was really like we saw that our users were there, our subscribers were there. It was really a place where we could express our brand voice and the value of our work.

49
00:07:38.584 --> 00:07:49.504
And so we did a lot of work talking to our users. We looked at our data. We sort of understood like strategically, what does it mean for Bloomberg to be audience first, and what are some of the sort of tenets of that?

50
00:07:50.044 --> 00:07:54.624
And that's really helping, I think, drive some of the decisions we make around the products that we build.

51
00:07:55.104 --> 00:08:04.284
I think that audience focus is also, you know, influencing what we're building when we think about our commercial business and how we work with marketers and really thinking about...

52
00:08:04.344 --> 00:08:14.144
You know, we released a products, a product called Audience Accelerator, and that's really about how marketers can, you know, make sure their products are meeting the audience that we want.

53
00:08:14.194 --> 00:08:29.944
And so really getting crisp around who our audience is, what they value from us, what their pain points are, how do we solve it, and, and really, you know, keeping that at the, at the forefront as much as we can around the decisions that we make.

54
00:08:30.024 --> 00:08:36.944
And, and, you know, sometimes we make decisions for other reasons. Sometimes we're, you know, we look at revenue. It's a complicated space.

55
00:08:37.104 --> 00:08:47.134
But I think really understanding our audience has set us up to have really good conversations to think about trade-offs and to really be thoughtful about kind of the big bets that we're taking on.

56
00:08:47.364 --> 00:08:52.564
So when you think about trade-offs, I always think it's good to have... Like I, I think some people call it a North Star metric.

57
00:08:52.613 --> 00:09:01.874
I just did a podcast with Jason White, the chief product and technology officer at The Arena Group, and he talked about a God metric, and he was saying revenue per session was like the God metric. Wow. Okay.

58
00:09:01.974 --> 00:09:12.124
And everything that they're gonna build around is around revenue per session. Do, do you think that way or no? Because there's a lot of different like thing... You're talking about what falls under product.

59
00:09:12.224 --> 00:09:19.284
You're gonna have to- So many metrics. Yeah. So many metrics, so many options. And, and we had a lot of conversations about that, and still do.

60
00:09:19.484 --> 00:09:37.624
I think one of the things that was really important for us is sort of this broader hypothesis that is if we can engage our audience, if they find value in our product, they will stick with us over time, and that's gonna drive revenue in the long term, and, and that's gonna build a really strong audience cohort that marketers are gonna wanna be around.

61
00:09:37.654 --> 00:09:44.524
And so our hypothesis is really like we drive revenue by building a product that, that our consumers really want.

62
00:09:44.944 --> 00:09:53.224
And so when we thought about North Star metrics, we, we thought about, well, what does that mean to have like a, a strong customer, and, and how do we sort of measure that?

63
00:09:53.773 --> 00:10:07.504
And so we've been really thinking about product usage, and so it's, it's how much are people using our product. Bloomberg exists across many platforms, so we also think about depth of usage across platforms.

64
00:10:07.564 --> 00:10:12.914
Are people consuming our podcasts? Are they consuming our video content on, on CTV and fast channels?

65
00:10:13.274 --> 00:10:30.424
And just really understanding how our, our users are interacting with our content across that ecosystem and, and understanding where they are, looking at the data, understanding how they're engaging with that content is helping us make smarter decisions around how do we choose to monetize, how do we think about our subscription business, how do we think about retention?

66
00:10:30.504 --> 00:10:39.244
And so really thinking about engagement metrics focused, uh, you know, around monthly active users and, and consumption and reach has been important for us.

67
00:10:39.744 --> 00:10:48.464
So how is that different than the sort of metrics you would be looking at or the KPIs you'd be looking at a few years ago? Is that, is it any different or has it evolved?

68
00:10:48.524 --> 00:10:51.944
I mean, I think we've focused a bit more around usage.

69
00:10:52.104 --> 00:11:06.264
I think with really strong search platforms, sort of really different ecosystem with social platforms driving so much reach and distribution for us, it was really about like scale and scope, and really thinking about, right, total UVs, total UVs.

70
00:11:06.724 --> 00:11:20.624
And for us, as we think about our business in the long term and, and what it means to be engaged, like we want people to come back over time, and we want people to continue to use our product, and that's really what we think is gonna help us grow our business.

71
00:11:20.664 --> 00:11:31.424
And so how do we strive towards that repeat engagement? We still care about reach. We want people to know who we are, who our brand is, what Bloomberg Media is about, and so that's really important.

72
00:11:31.444 --> 00:11:42.104
But I think we balance that a bit more with looking at engagement and looking at those metrics that help up- help us measure are we being successful at driving value for our audience.

73
00:11:42.504 --> 00:11:54.616
So what are some specific measures of-Engagement. Is it just time on site? Pages con-consumed? I'm not a huge fan of time on site, but- Okay... just 'cause it's like, you know, you- I know... walk away, like, who knows?

74
00:11:54.856 --> 00:12:05.516
We really look at sort of repeat engagement, so within a month, are people coming back multiple times? Like, how, how frequently are they touching Bloomberg content across different platforms?

75
00:12:05.966 --> 00:12:16.476
And then we also look at how much are they consuming, what kinds of thing, things are they consuming? You know, we're a product. We've got market data. We have incredible data graphics.

76
00:12:16.596 --> 00:12:19.936
We've got content, and so there's a, a great audio, video.

77
00:12:19.976 --> 00:12:31.256
There's a great variety of, of what we offer as an organization, and so really understanding how consumers are engaging with all of that content and helping us sort of understand really what does good look like.

78
00:12:31.736 --> 00:12:45.876
And then as we learn more about our audience, just sort of the, you know, how are people, you know, if there's volatility in the market or there's a st- you know, a story that's, that's popping in the news, how are they looking at market data versus news?

79
00:12:46.066 --> 00:12:58.196
One of the things we've heard is that people really are craving that context, so really understanding, okay, this happened, but why? And for our audience in particular, it's about how does this impact the market?

80
00:12:58.256 --> 00:13:09.296
How does it impact my money, the money? And we really feel like that's a, a place where we can really shine. And so really I think for us, it's engagement, is understanding are we delivering on that context?

81
00:13:09.336 --> 00:13:20.236
Are people reading deeply about a particular topic or story? And then are they coming back? Are they finding value in that? So how did that inform the... Well, actually, I wanna get to how that informed the homepage.

82
00:13:20.286 --> 00:13:28.956
Yeah. But first of all, why, why redesign the homepage? Like, I mean, before it was, like, always you start with the article page because, uh, all the- It's where everyone was... do we still talk about side doors?

83
00:13:29.416 --> 00:13:34.076
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you talk about that anymore. No, yeah, front door, side door. So why, why the, why the homepage? Yeah.

84
00:13:34.156 --> 00:13:38.566
I mean, you have, you're unusual in that what it's, like, almost, like, half your tra- Uh, not half. No.

85
00:13:38.596 --> 00:13:49.386
I think, I mean, we still have, I think like any publisher, many people coming in through search and social, or we do have sort of users who are coming to us sort of through newsletters, and so there's a variety of side doors- Yeah...

86
00:13:49.386 --> 00:13:49.756
if you will.

87
00:13:50.356 --> 00:14:03.375
I think one of the things when we sat down to, to look at the data and to really understand our audience, we s- we saw our subscribers were spending time on the homepage, and that was surprising to those of us who've maybe been like, "Oh, that's interesting, the homepage?"

88
00:14:03.896 --> 00:14:14.596
And so we, like, did some surveys and, you know, we sort of were like, "Why? What's the value you find here? Why are you here? How is the homepage... Like, what's the need it's serving for you?

89
00:14:14.666 --> 00:14:23.556
How is it helping you in your day?" And we got some, some great answers around that. You know, people care about what, what Bloomberg publishes, what Bloomberg thinks is important. There's, there's data.

90
00:14:23.596 --> 00:14:31.636
There's this, this timeliness to sort of our publication. So then we look to sort of say, "Well, is our homepage nailing it? Is it, is it great?"

91
00:14:31.676 --> 00:14:36.736
We hadn't changed it for several years, so it perhaps was like, needed a little bit of a refresh.

92
00:14:36.856 --> 00:14:49.815
And as we started to look at our homepage and kind of understand again what people wanted from it, what they liked about it, what it wasn't delivering, I think that really informed a lot of what you see in the homepage now.

93
00:14:50.216 --> 00:14:51.416
And it's small things, right?

94
00:14:51.476 --> 00:15:02.376
It's like when there's a story that breaks now sort of the, you know, you can see the market data right there, and that was a big thing for our users, which is like, "Don't just tell me what happened, but how is it impacting the markets?"

95
00:15:02.896 --> 00:15:14.936
Context was, was important to our consumers, and so as we're publishing again across different formats or, you know, publishing sort of different angles of the same story, how do we bring that together in a product?

96
00:15:14.996 --> 00:15:18.356
And so we built a feature that we sort of call the Record, and that does that.

97
00:15:18.396 --> 00:15:31.076
It sort of brings together different perspectives and information around a particular story that helps our audience, like, go really deep when they want to and, and, and really understand sort of like the story behind the story.

98
00:15:31.106 --> 00:15:39.715
And I think the other piece we, we heard loud and clear, which I'm sure everyone hears, no one has time, and they want things delivered to them really quickly, and they want it to feel really relevant.

99
00:15:39.786 --> 00:15:48.636
And so there's sort of the right rail of the page is, is really about delivering on that, which is sort of like, "Here's the latest. Here's the rundown. Here's the top movers in the market."

100
00:15:49.096 --> 00:15:50.916
And so you start to really get...

101
00:15:50.956 --> 00:16:00.076
I think we have, like, an audio update that publishes, like, every thirty minutes or every hour, and so it's really the space where people can come in and get, like, here's what's new, here's what's timely.

102
00:16:00.666 --> 00:16:11.376
And so a lot of the sort of great visual design, and I think a lot of the product work was really done in an effort to sort of listen to those users and really deliver on those needs.

103
00:16:11.416 --> 00:16:17.136
And it's been super exciting, and I'm so proud of the team 'cause we, you know, put a survey up after we launched it.

104
00:16:17.756 --> 00:16:24.796
Nobody likes change, but it was really fulfilling to hear our users be like, "Oh, hey, it's great to get the market data with the news story."

105
00:16:24.846 --> 00:16:31.736
And so you really heard from our consumers that they got what we were trying to do. We were like, "We heard you. You heard us," and so...

106
00:16:32.196 --> 00:16:41.196
But it was really about, it was where our subscribers were, what was driving them to be there, what value did they find from it, and then how do we just make it better for them? Yeah.

107
00:16:41.616 --> 00:16:49.196
It's funny, we were talking, like, earlier, and it's very different than, like, the 2015 redesign. Yeah. I was... I'm dating myself, I guess, a little bit.

108
00:16:49.256 --> 00:17:02.325
And that was Josh Topolsky was, was in charge of it, and I think Josh has- does some amazing stuff with design and really pushing things forward, originally with The Verge, and now he's doing it with Sherwood, some really interesting stuff with the product there.

109
00:17:02.336 --> 00:17:12.796
But it was probably too much for Bloomberg. I mean, just because I feel like, though, these exercises, and we called it back to the basics, are really... They gotta be tied to real business goals- Yeah...

110
00:17:12.876 --> 00:17:18.396
and not a lot of the, the flashy stuff that I feel like the mid-2010s were about. Yeah. Yeah.

111
00:17:18.816 --> 00:17:26.516
And I think, you know, one of the things that's, that's interesting about the project is I think the last version of the homepage was around 2018 or 2019.

112
00:17:27.096 --> 00:17:37.176
And from then till now, which I g- actually is, uh, six years, which is a decent amount of time, you just sort of think we consume information, and we want information in very different ways.

113
00:17:37.216 --> 00:17:49.828
And so for us, it's, it's not just like, "Hey, we listened to our users, and we built this thing." It's like-People are gonna change how they consume, and we need to think about how we change our product to keep up.

114
00:17:49.877 --> 00:18:03.768
And I think the, the homepage is a great example of, you know, I think when we did this in twenty eighteen, it, it met a user need, and people were excited about it, and they liked it, and it made sense for how they were consuming information.

115
00:18:03.788 --> 00:18:11.418
And, and that's different now, and we sort of saw that in, in the research that we, we did prior to the project. And I think... So who knows?

116
00:18:11.488 --> 00:18:18.428
Maybe the, the orange and purple was like, you know, hit it, hit it on the mark when it happened. And, you know, I think we all change.

117
00:18:18.468 --> 00:18:28.928
And, and so for us it's like, how do we make sure our product is, is just staying relevant for our consumers? Yeah. But how about the article page? And I-- 'cause I, I'm interested in the future of the article page.

118
00:18:28.948 --> 00:18:45.568
Yeah, yeah. Because I think, like, it's obviously been the, the core of what people make, right? Yeah. And the question I always ask people is will article pages matter in five years? I think they will.

119
00:18:46.068 --> 00:18:51.627
I think the question is what are they gonna look like? And I think, you know, or, you know, I think it's...

120
00:18:52.148 --> 00:19:05.068
People are always gonna want information about a certain thing or a certain topic or a certain story, and I think people are always kinda gonna wanna either, you know, get the updates really brief, give me the bullets, or they're gonna wanna go really deep.

121
00:19:05.108 --> 00:19:14.128
And I think with our audience in particular, we hear that. Sometimes they wanna do that deep reading. They need that sort of, like, deeper analysis and insight, and that's what they value from us.

122
00:19:14.188 --> 00:19:25.748
And so I think that need is still gonna exist. I think what that article page looks like, it... Sort of the conceit of the page is that, you know, how does it look? How does it feel? How do you interact with it?

123
00:19:25.788 --> 00:19:34.828
I think all those pieces are gonna s- are gonna change. But I think at the heart of it, like, I think users are still gonna want a space where they can come and learn and go deep.

124
00:19:34.928 --> 00:19:38.908
And again, we'll, we'll continue to figure out how people engage with that.

125
00:19:38.988 --> 00:19:49.548
I think we still hear from our audience they're interested in longer reads, which was sort of surprising to me, and I think in a culture where we're all, you know, exhausted sort of at the end of the day.

126
00:19:49.568 --> 00:20:01.098
And, and so I think people are still craving deeper reads, insight, something they can kinda lose themself in and go deep. And so we'll see if that changes. So I think there will still always be an article.

127
00:20:01.288 --> 00:20:09.108
I just think the form of it will shift. Mm. Yeah. I find it like... And so what about... What is the, the role of the app then?

128
00:20:09.168 --> 00:20:20.288
Because, I mean, again, Bloomberg is unusual in that I'm sure you get a lot of desktop traffic, which is strange for a lot of publishers. [laughs] Right? And it's a lot of traffic during the day. Yeah.

129
00:20:20.528 --> 00:20:28.508
People are at their desk, and a lot of your core users are kind of forbidden from using apps for like, um, like, social apps and things.

130
00:20:28.588 --> 00:20:39.448
So, I mean, you've got a lot of strange things- Yeah...that a lot of publishers don't. With that said, what is, what is the role of the app? Because I think that would, that would seem to be like what the homepage...

131
00:20:39.808 --> 00:20:47.968
the modern version of the homepage. Yeah. I think it's a great question, and I, you know, I think it's one that, that we sort of debate and think about all the time.

132
00:20:48.128 --> 00:21:01.768
I think we see the app as really a complement to our core products, and I think the way we think about the app, again, is really understanding the user journey when people go to the app versus when they go to the website versus when they read a newsletter.

133
00:21:01.778 --> 00:21:12.848
And, and we see spikes in behavior. You can imagine commuting is like for, for I'm sure many of our consumers are reading while they commute, and so, like, they're not going to necessarily a website.

134
00:21:12.888 --> 00:21:20.828
And so we're understanding from those app readers, are they also consuming on other platforms, or are they solely app?

135
00:21:20.868 --> 00:21:33.518
And then how do we think about building experiences that are either complementary in how you engage with those two platforms during a day, or how do we think about this, this product as, as... Is it more separate?

136
00:21:33.588 --> 00:21:44.218
Does it sort of live on its own? But I think we are, are unique in a lot of ways, where we have consumers who engage with Bloomberg across multiple touchpoints during the day.

137
00:21:44.248 --> 00:21:58.248
And so I think it's a constant question for us, which is, you know, where do we emphasize different behavior and different content on these platforms, and, and then how do we also keep the journey seamless so the brand, the voice feels consistent?

138
00:21:58.468 --> 00:22:05.908
Mm-hmm. Do you think because of the Bloomberg audience, you don't have to keep up with sort of the latest consumption patterns as much?

139
00:22:06.448 --> 00:22:15.788
I mean, I just noticed, like, in the New York Times, like, app, there's, there's a certain TikTokification that's happening there, except it's, like, middle-aged reporters and stuff [laughs]. Um,

140
00:22:16.828 --> 00:22:27.208
uh, I, I don't think we are immune to that. You know, I think you see when we, we talk to our users, people use our apps and our products in the way that they use other apps and products.

141
00:22:27.288 --> 00:22:31.588
I, I, I don't know that people put on a different hat 'cause they're using a news site.

142
00:22:31.728 --> 00:22:49.468
And so I think there are patterns that we wanna be min- mindful of in how we're thinking about building our product alongside everything else people are using, 'cause I think that line of what people pay for, how people consume information is getting really blurry.

143
00:22:49.648 --> 00:23:00.728
So I, I don't know that we can just go in a hole and be like, "We're Bloomberg. We're, you know, we're gonna ignore how that people seem to like video." But for us, it's, it's what's our overall strategy?

144
00:23:00.968 --> 00:23:09.468
What do we hear from our consumers? What do we think is right for our brand? We have a pretty... a broad audience with a... that's, you know, got a lot of different needs.

145
00:23:09.508 --> 00:23:13.588
And so for us as a product team, how do we think about which ones we serve where?

146
00:23:14.208 --> 00:23:24.448
And we're doing a lot of work in the app right now to think about how we really serve that app audience, and we're getting to know them a little bit deeper, and it, it's been exciting. So stay tuned for more.

147
00:23:24.868 --> 00:23:33.488
So what, what are the priorities on the CMS side and, and just, like, on the foundational infrastructure level? 'Cause again, it's... I, I always would love the stories about, like, a redesign.

148
00:23:33.528 --> 00:23:42.368
They're not in stories anymore. [laughs] But, you know, it's kind of like the subway, right? Like, politicians love the, the new station. You know, you know, they get to cut a, a ribbon and stuff.

149
00:23:42.448 --> 00:23:51.928
But, like, the real work is, like, fixing- Yeah...the signals- Yeah...and [laughs] Yeah. And, and that work. Yeah. It's harder to talk about the stuff that is less like, "We're more efficient now."

150
00:23:51.968 --> 00:23:58.858
But, like, that actually was a key thing for us. Like, when we sat down to do the homepage project, for example, we talked to our...

151
00:23:59.168 --> 00:24:09.128
the team in the newsroom, and it was a really strong and really great collaboration with them to both sort of design the front end but also think about how we design the tools that they're using, and how do we make their lives easier.

152
00:24:09.348 --> 00:24:21.596
And, you know, we, we can't... The homepage can't be what it is without the backendTooling, getting a facelift or being upgraded as well. And so you really can't, you know, divorce the two.

153
00:24:21.696 --> 00:24:30.316
You kinda have to think about them together. And so with each of the projects that we're doing, that's like a big component. You know, we serve our users, we also serve our news-newsroom.

154
00:24:30.396 --> 00:24:42.176
We, we partner with them, we build their tools. And, and so, you know, again, those things have to be sort of seamless in, in how they work. And so that's just a part of all of the work that we do. Yeah.

155
00:24:42.576 --> 00:24:51.976
Uh, can the CMS be a competitive advantage? I mean, 'cause we went through a period where a lot of companies w- maybe it was venture capital driven [laughs]... maybe.

156
00:24:52.056 --> 00:25:03.236
But they were sort of masquerading as technology companies, and they were saying that their CMSs which- Yeah... usually had strange names from like Greek mythology- Always...

157
00:25:03.246 --> 00:25:11.735
were [laughs] a massive competitive advantage. Yeah. I think The Verge's like CMS caused some editors to cry. They weeped when they saw it.

158
00:25:12.416 --> 00:25:18.336
I mean, I think to, to me, I mean, I don't know if I would say it's a competitive advantage, but I think it's just...

159
00:25:18.416 --> 00:25:24.756
I think each newsroom is different, sort of the pace of each newsroom is different, and sort of the needs there are different.

160
00:25:24.836 --> 00:25:34.566
And as a product team, that is a product that we have to care for and think about how we make those workflows and tools work for the newsroom.

161
00:25:34.636 --> 00:25:41.996
And so I think just it's, it's important to keep that in mind as it's like a part of the product, not a separate product.

162
00:25:42.156 --> 00:25:52.756
And I think again, we've built great partnerships and, you know, think about innovation in that platform as much as we do on the front end, and I think that that's been successful for us.

163
00:25:53.196 --> 00:26:07.496
So we made it twenty-seven minutes without talking about AI. Congrats. Great. Great. [laughs] [clapping] That's over now. Yeah. [laughs] I'm told you're an AI skeptic. [laughs] You told me that actually. I did.

164
00:26:07.596 --> 00:26:17.166
I did say that. [laughs] Not a skeptic. Maybe that's a strong word. I think like we're all still figuring it out, and so I think it's really exciting, and I think there's a lot of opportunity.

165
00:26:17.406 --> 00:26:26.416
And I think it's fun to see how people are being creative with it, but it's so new. But leave aside generative AI and stuff. We're talking about AI, uh, not totally new. Like what...

166
00:26:26.476 --> 00:26:37.476
how are you using it, if at all, and what gains, if any, have you seen from it? Measurable gains. Yeah. Yeah. I think that we've used...

167
00:26:37.656 --> 00:26:43.636
I think, you know, we've all have personalization and levels of personalization across our products.

168
00:26:43.776 --> 00:26:51.616
We have a feature in our mobile app that's called The Bulletin, and that's driven by AI and, and gives you sort of top three stories and some, some summaries.

169
00:26:51.656 --> 00:27:08.196
And so I think we've been leveraging AI in our products for a while, and I think we see that really as an avenue both to really like we hear from users, they're like, "Ooh, this needs to feel relevant to me," or, "I'm looking for this thing."

170
00:27:08.796 --> 00:27:11.696
But when you're like, "What are you looking for?" There's, there's no answer.

171
00:27:11.776 --> 00:27:22.456
And so like where I think, you know, we can use sort of AI is to think about how we better deliver content to our consumers and make sure it feels relevant, and it's what it is that they need.

172
00:27:22.496 --> 00:27:31.816
And again, we have a pretty broad audience, and so that's important for us to be able to do. And so that's, that's been an important component to how we build our products.

173
00:27:31.856 --> 00:27:48.296
And then, of course, we've, you know, we leverage it on the commercial side of the house as we think about audiences and understanding our audiences and, you know, again, that audience accelerator is a product we built that's really around like how we're targeting consumers, leveraging some of what, what is relevant to them.

174
00:27:48.596 --> 00:27:59.676
Okay. So it sounds like no like home run uses yet. I mean, it's like the blocking and tackling, and it makes like slightly more efficient, but it's not like this is changing the business. I think that's the big question.

175
00:27:59.716 --> 00:28:07.296
A trillion dollars has gone into this. Yes. It's gonna have to... I think we're officially in the trough of disillusionment- Yeah. Yeah... with AI. I mean, I think it's...

176
00:28:07.456 --> 00:28:19.536
I would say like AI is just infused in our-- like it has been infused in our, our product and, and when we build out features, we think about how do we use sort of machine learning to make these better?

177
00:28:19.676 --> 00:28:24.916
Can they make these better? Or is it the right thing? And to be really thoughtful about when we deploy it and when we don't.

178
00:28:25.416 --> 00:28:34.055
And so on some level, it's not nec- it could be a big win, but it's something we consider for every single feature that we're building. Yeah. And I think it's just a part of our process.

179
00:28:34.196 --> 00:28:37.616
So final thing, and this will pull in gen AI a little bit.

180
00:28:37.876 --> 00:28:49.076
When w-we're thinking about consumer expectations, 'cause that's the thing that I really wonder about with, with search moving to answers and, you know, things just becoming more...

181
00:28:49.106 --> 00:28:53.696
A lot of the-- look, Silicon Valley loves to remove friction. They love it. Yeah. They love it. Yeah.

182
00:28:53.736 --> 00:29:03.216
And so they're trying to remove a lot of the friction and, and a lot of publishing businesses are frankly built on friction. But how does that change consumer expectations?

183
00:29:03.256 --> 00:29:14.136
'Cause I think the big question for me ends up being will the publishing experience as it is, will that start to feel incredibly outdated?

184
00:29:14.216 --> 00:29:27.976
And I think about the, the Forbes kerfuffle over Perplexity taking an in-depth investigative piece that Forbes had, had done about Eric Schmidt and his various investments in defense tech.

185
00:29:28.006 --> 00:29:38.996
And Perplexity created a page, a package, like using a... I mean, you could say it was AI. They basically just took the content. But it was a superior user experience for sure.

186
00:29:39.146 --> 00:29:51.876
[laughs] I mean, no offense to Forbes, but it's a pretty aggressive article page experience, I'll say. Do you think it changes consumer expectations, or is it just it's a big unknown? I think it's a bit of an unknown.

187
00:29:51.936 --> 00:30:00.036
I mean, I think consumers are still figuring out how to best use, like how to best use generative AI, how it helps them, how to engage with it.

188
00:30:00.496 --> 00:30:09.296
And so I think it's something we're mindful of and something we're thinking about. And, you know, I think it's, for us, it's how do we understand what users want?

189
00:30:09.336 --> 00:30:11.636
And if this feels like the right answer, then let's pursue it.

190
00:30:11.816 --> 00:30:25.076
But we wanna be thoughtful and responsible about how we're using something like that because I think what's so important to, to Bloomberg is, you know, there's, there's a lot of trust in the brand, and so we take that really seriously, and we wanna be thoughtful about how we leverage these tools.

191
00:30:25.576 --> 00:30:35.916
But I think time will tell. I just think it's... we just don't know how, how I think we all want to engage with AI and interact with it. So it'll be fun. Okay. So right now, no Bloomberg bot.

192
00:30:35.956 --> 00:30:46.316
[laughs] You know, like we're- Not yet... everyone's playing around with it. All right. We'll see. All right. Maybe next quarter. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Marissa. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you.

193
00:30:46.656 --> 00:30:57.296
[clapping] [upbeat music]