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[upbeat music] Hey, friend, it's David Avinski, the community lead of the Chief of Staff Network.

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We help chiefs of staff through the three Cs: cohorts, curriculum and community via Slack with over nine hundred people in it. Learn more about our membership, events and programs at chiefofstaff.network.

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You can also subscribe to our newsletter there as well. This episode of the Chief of Staff Podcast is with Rico Ashab.

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It was recorded in person at our Chief of Staff Connect two-day conference in New York City in October. Rico's the chief of staff at Destination DC.

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He used to be an EA there, so if you're interested in EA to chief of staff transitions, this episode is for you. You'll also learn about relationship building and so much more.

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Excited for you to level up as a chief of staff. Here we go with Rico. Cool. Uh, Rico, welcome to, uh, the Chief of Staff Podcast. Appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. Thanks a lot, David. All from DC. Yeah.

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It's good to see you.

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You know, we've had a lot of different interactions over Zoom and stuff, and you've been, um, such a great leader of the DC community and really been advocating for chiefs of staff getting together, and here we are in New York with about a hundred plus people.

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It's just, uh, it's great, man. Yeah, 100%. It's, it's... I appreciate you saying that.

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You know, I mean, everything that you guys have done with the Chief of Staff Network is really amazing, and this conference has been amazing.

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I love connecting with everyone and, um, yeah, as far as the DC aspect, you know, I'm big on everybody meeting in person- [laughs]... and getting people together.

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So I'm always happy to host, and it's been really great to, to meet people in DC and kinda establish those connections and keep those going. Yeah. Yeah. And what, um...

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I guess, like, what, what have you noticed about when chiefs of staff get together in person? Like, what, like, what do... Yeah, what do you see? Just 'cause I'm not there, I wonder. [laughs] Yeah.

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[laughs] Um, honestly, a lot of, like, strategic, like, thought processes- Mm... and, like, sharing strategies is what I've, like, encountered drastically over the course of the last twenty-four hours.

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You know, I feel, I feel like everyone really wants to exchange ideas, exchange strategies, frameworks, what works best in their organization, and, and it's really been great.

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Like, even the WhatsApp channels, like, I'm seeing so many people saying, "Hey, you know, I have a company that grew in the past eighteen months from, you know, a hundred and eighty to five hundred people." Yeah.

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"Is anyone in a similar situation-" Mm... "that you, we can exchange and bounce ideas off?" And, you know, like, all the comments and the, the, just the, the connection. People like, I, like, and I work in hospitality.

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Yeah. I work in the travel industry. Yeah. You know, we attend a lot of conferences.

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We host a lot of events and, you know, I'm used to seeing a lot of people that I email all year, and then everybody's so happy to be around each other.

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[laughs] And that's, like, I feel like what this is, only it's so many strangers, but it's like, "Oh, we're thrilled to be around so many chiefs of staff-" Mm...

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"amongst different organizations and, and in different fields." It's, it's just really kinda great to be around. I love that energy. Nice. Nice. Um, you talked about your role a little bit. Mm-hmm.

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Um, but, uh, yeah, how, how would you say, or how do you say you got your chief of staff role? Like, how did you get it? Uh, yeah, that's, um, that's a good question. You know, I started working with Destination DC.

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Uh, for background, we're the official marketing organization for the city.

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Uh, we also work closely with our partners, um, to help book, like, conventions and meetings within the convention center and throughout the city.

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And, you know, in my role, uh, or, uh, to get to my role rather, what happened was I started off in our convention services department, um, which is within sales and services as a coordinator role.

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I was reporting to the director of convention services back in July of twenty nineteen. I did that for a whole two and a half months- [laughs] Yeah... before our, uh, our CEO took me away.

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Uh, he was promoting and creating a new position. Um, that's a tease there.

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He was creating a new position for his EA at the time, uh, to go within our marketing department, and then, um, you know, obviously she needed to replace herself- Yeah... and he liked... You know, our CEO's awesome.

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He walks around the entire, um, office, all three floors, and he's always giving people fist bumps. This is pre-pandemic, post-pandemic, you know.

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[laughs] Like, but, uh, he's just always, like, tries to make time to have, like, intentional conversations- Mm... with every single person, new hires, interns, apprentices, uh, for a few minutes.

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And, you know, I guess what he told me was every time he came near me when I was the convention services coordinator, I always looked like he was bothering me from, like, doing my work. [laughs] Mm.

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Uh, and but I, I understand where he was coming from 'cause I, when I'm kinda locked in, I really get locked in, and I wouldn't even see him or hear him sometimes when I'm just, like, focused.

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Um, but anyway, he, he asked me if I'd wanna be in that role, and I had no idea what it would entail.

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So I talked to his current EA at the time, and she gave me a lot of advice, and it was awesome because, you know, at that point, this is in twenty nineteen, so we were in the office five days a week. Mm.

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So it was very good start for me because as I took on that role in November of twenty nineteen, I could just go upstairs to the fifth floor, where our marketing floor is- Mm-hmm. Yeah...

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and talk to her and ask her, "Hey, you know, he needs to go to France, but he also has to come back here and be in Virginia, and then he has to go to China the week after. I don't...

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Like, what's going on with this itinerary?" Yeah. "Could you please help me?"

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You know, and so to be able to have that resource was, was huge, and that's kinda, um, how I got to be his EA and then did that for about three and a half years.

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But I'd say probably after working for him for about two, we started to initially have that conversation- Mm... of next steps. Uh, I brought up chief of staff.

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I brought up different things I, I wanted to do and focus more on, um, even as an EA, and a lot of that was related to our board.

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A lot of that is related to government, um, with the DC Council, the mayor's office, the deputy mayor's office, and, you know, he...

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But that position didn't exist, not only at our organization, very, very few in our industry. Um, like, literally, like, less than five probably.

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Um, and yeah, he created that for me back in January of, uh, twenty twenty-three, and I've been in that role since. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Um, yeah. You mentioned about his, uh, you know, relationship

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making and, and con-Building, um, skills and stuff. Yeah. And I, I remember, it was like a couple of months ago, and I remember he like shouted you out on LinkedIn and stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, what was it [laughs]...

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[laughs] I... Okay. What was that like for you? Yeah. Oh, I mean, the timing of it was crazy. So it was... He does like anniversary LinkedIn posts- Mm...

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ah, different team members, ah, like especially on like milestones. Yeah. And that was my five-year anniversary. Although technically I've been with the organization for seven.

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Uh, what I left off earlier, before I started the coordinator role, I actually started, um, as a red coat, which is like temporary staff we hire. Oh.

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And they basically are assigned to big conventions and meetings as groups might need, you know, bag stuffing, you know, ah, registration assistants- Yeah... greeters, mic runners, things like that.

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Uh, so that's actually what I did for about a year and a half, ah, and then kinda made my way into that coordinator role. But, um, outside of that, oh, sorry, your question escaped me.

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Uh- Yeah, it was like, what was it like when, um... You know, like I think it's beautiful when you see a leader- Oh... um, you know, really like highlight the incredible work that the chief of staff is doing. Yeah.

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And just the way that the algorithm was hitting that day. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, yeah. It saw it pop up. Um- It was crazy...

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and I just was like, wanted to honor that and, um, yeah, highlight that like, yeah, you know, your incredible work is, is obviously being seen by him, and he's like, and he's elevating and highlighting that and sharing that for other people.

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The- Mm. But what was that like? What was that like for you? Yeah, appreciate that. Um, you know, for sure. He, I mean, the timing was just wild. Like I said, it was my, it was my five- [laughs]...

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year anniversary, but we were also literally that same week, like within a day, heading to Tampa for a conference called Destinations International. Mm.

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And that is like a really big conference where a lot of DMOs, destination- Yeah... marketing organizations attend. So i- like it was, "Congratulations. Oh, you're Rico," like, throughout the conference. Like- Mm...

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I mean, he's a star within our industry and like he, we always joke, if we need him to get somewhere at a conference at 1:30 and it's 1:00, like he needs to leave at that time, even if it's in the same building, because he's going to be stopped- [laughs]...

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consistently, like, and like, and I walk with him everywhere, so like I see it, and I see it. Like, it's like, "Elliott, Elliott," like everyone stops him. They wanna talk to him. They haven't seen him.

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They wanna take a picture. Like he's- Yeah... he's, he's a very, very big deal within our industry and, and, and rightfully so.

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I mean, he's, he's been in the industry over 30 years, and he's just, you know, great individual- Yeah... great human being. And I think for like him to post that, you know, when he did, just was so drastic. Mm.

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And, and also when he promoted me to chief of staff, you know, when he did that, it was a LinkedIn post. I had so many CEOs reach out, uh, "Can you give me your job description?"

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[laughs] "Can you talk to me about what it is you do- Wow... uh, with Elliott?" And then to the o- other end, I had a lot of EAs reach out, "How did you get him to do that?"

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[laughs] And I'm like, "Well, I didn't get him to do anything." Yeah.

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Like he, he made that decision, but it was just a conversation, you know, during review times or in other ways, but I'm like, you know, I had to really discuss and share what I would be doing that would be different outside of that EA.

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And, you know, some of the roles I, you know, outlined have even changed since then. Like I, our executive office has grown. You know, it was literally three people when I first started as his EA.

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We had a, a, a manager of indus- industry relations and government affairs. Yeah. But, uh, that person resigned and, and went on somewhere else.

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And then it was just, it was our CEO and myself as his EA, and we were a department of two for a while. Mm. And now we're a department of eight, 'cause we have an internal events team.

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It's five members of that team that report to myself, and then we also have an executive office assistant.

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So, you know, a lot of how our executive office is different, and a lot of my responsibilities are different because we do a lot of events. Yeah.

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Like customer events, client events, and, and the internal events team has to put on some of our big annual events as well. Or all of our a- annual events.

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So it's just, it's a different layer, um, but it's also, you know, a nice challenge because managing people is definitely one of the more difficult things I think that you do as a professional. Mm. Okay.

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So I wanna talk about that too. Yeah, sure. But, but, but the...

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I wanna just also like double click on this part of like, I've noticed sometimes when like, when people are known to be really good with relationships and really good with people, and you work with those people, it's almost like,

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I don't know, i- it's kinda like challenging almost- Yeah... because they're like so good at it that like- [laughs] Yeah.

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Um, so what, what would you say is like, how have you been able to manage and build a relationship with someone who's so good at relationships?

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I know that's kind of a weird question, but- Yeah, that's an interesting one. You know, um, I, I think just being authentic. Like he's a very authentic person.

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Um, you know, and he likes, he's, you know, he likes to joke around. Yeah. He has a good personality. I think that makes it easier. And he, he's just very good at making you comfortable. Mm-hmm.

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So I think it makes, it makes it easy for me to be comfortable with others around him. I mean, obviously he's a CEO. I think everyone has that level of appropriate fear.

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Um, you know, uh, but at the same time, like he's just a, a really genuine person. He expects you to get things done- Mm... for sure.

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Uh, but he, I love his management style, and I try to mimic that as much as possible- Mm... with the team m- that reports to me. But, you know, he really is really hands-off.

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Like, and, you know, "You know what you need to do. I'll follow up with you as needed, but I expect you to get things done.

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You know, it doesn't matter if you're in the office really early, if you, you wanna leave early or whatever, like you're working remote, it doesn't really matter, as long as what you're, what needs to get done gets done."

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And, you know, he doesn't wanna, you know, have to like be on top of someone in that way. And it's the same for everyo- every one of us that work in the executive office. It's the same for our executive team.

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And then I think that just trickles down from, uh, the executive leadership to the rest of the organization a- as a whole. How did your relationship change from EA to chief of staff?

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Uh, pretty, you know, pretty drastically. Uh, I became a member... So we have a senior staff, but we also have an executive team. Every member of the executive team is on the senior staff.

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Our senior staff currently is a team of 20, and our executive team is eight, of which I'm a part of. I became a part of the executive team- Mm... uh, as a chief of staff, so that's one major change at that moment.

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I would always join those meetings and senior staff meetings and just take the meeting minutes, but being actual member of the executive team, I really had to shift-The way I interact with all the other members of the executive team.

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Mm.

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And that's because you know, I felt a duty as a chief of staff to really make sure that the things the CEO is saying are actually being carried throughout, but also, you know, the relationship from the executive team to him.

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I mean, they all meet with him weekly or bi-weekly for some of them, but you know, there are things that they might not get a definite on and need following up. And you know, they're busy, they're traveling too- Yeah...

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and it's like th- I, I like to be that resource. I, I can, I, I'll get that answer, or I'll get that response, or I'll move this along, you know, to, to follow up for you.

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And, and I think I've developed that relationship with all of them. I think we all, you know, like each other, which helps [laughs]. But we- Yeah... we work well together as well.

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Um, so that's definitely one of the more drastic changes from EA to chief of staff for me. And did you have to, ah, like communicate your role or, um, yeah, continue to like reiterate...

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Like I, I know like sometimes, yeah, with just friends or so or like when things shift- Yeah... and, but the people are like, "I remember you as this." Right. Yeah, yeah. What was, what was that like? Yeah.

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You know, that's [laughs] that's a really good question. It's, it was interesting for me at first, ah, because I really wanted to make sure like I defined that as well before like really updating everyone else.

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And then there were some changes. I had to bring on a new hire. Mm. Like one of the first things he said after promoting me to chief of staff is, "We need an assistant." Mm.

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And that assistant currently, ah, reports to both the executive office as well as our, our partnerships department. Yeah.

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Um, the m- overwhelming majority, probably 85%, 90% of what they do is for the executive office, but there are still some split responsibilities between the different department.

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And that's worked out, you know, okay, but I think moving forward we'll probably just have the one assignment and then have our part, our, our partnerships department, you know, have on another admin role to just really keep them separate, especially now with the level of our executive office growing.

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You know, when it was just our CEO, it was different. He's only managing the calendar and things- Yeah... of that nature.

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But now that we have, you know, a whole events team and there's other support that they need administratively, I think I'm gonna really start incorporating that responsibility into this role, um, for the executive office assistant in, you know, this new fiscal year, FY25.

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Cool. Um, is there anything else about either

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how the way that you all, you and Elliot interact in terms of like cadence of getting together, um, communication types and is there anything, like best practices there that like you've learned to develop?

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Oh, yeah, 100%. Like one of the things I always say is, and I, I tell this to our executive office assistant all the time, it's like, "If you need responses, if you... Like you're on his time." So like, he loves to walk.

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I mean, DC is a great walkable city anyway. Yeah. But he walks like 20 minutes to a lunch meeting or something like that. I'm walking with him. [laughs] Like, you know, I need to get some responses.

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I don't, maybe I don't have time, or maybe he doesn't have time. Not me [laughs], but maybe he doesn't have time to put 30 minutes on the calendar and go through X, Y, Z.

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But I need to make sure, you know, we sponsored a table, and we need the names by such and such date. Like, who would you like to invite? Are you actually going? Like, you know- Mm...

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if you do go, remember, you're also traveling the following morning and, you know- Yeah... X, Y, and Z. So it's, it's a lot of layers.

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But if he, you know, if he's walking to the garage, ah, 'cause he's heading out of the office, he's about to drive home, I'm walking with him to the garage. [laughs] Um- That's free, that's unused time. Yeah.

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Like that's like- Exactly. Yeah. And, and sometimes it might be like, oh, I only need a quick one-question response, and I get that.

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And then the rest of the time we're just talking, connecting, whatever he wants to talk about. Maybe he's like, oh, you know, he gets phone calls all the time, so he's like, "Hey, I just talked to so-and-so.

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Can you please follow up on X, Y, and Z?" Mm. Or delegate it to someone else, you know, those type of things. So I think my best practice is like, obviously when you do have that one-on-one time, coming prepared. Mm.

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Like he always jokes, 'cause he likes to kinda have a little five minutes or so of just catching up and, you know- That's my style... joking around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm, he, I'm like.

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[laughs] Like [laughs] ah, as soon as we sit down, I'm like, this meeting was supposed to start at 1:30. It's 1:31. Yeah. We're talking about kids- Yeah... and, you know, catching up on the family.

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Like I'm trying to go, go- Yeah... through it 'cause, you know, it's just, we're always moving. But I appreciate it, and it gets me to like slow down a bit as well, like, you know, have a little fun with it. Cool. Yeah.

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Cool. Anything else on, um, kind of getting things done, relationship management, relationship building with Elliot or any of the other ELT? Yeah. I would just say, you know, I, like again, I'm really big on in person.

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Mm. Like w- I'm always pretty much in the office at least like four days a week, and it's so, like, it's just easy to me to just pop in, you know?

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And I, and some people may not like that, but like I'll just run upstairs or run downstairs or run on the same floor and see, oh, are they free? Like it's a quick thing I need to talk to somebody about.

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And it's not just members of the executive team. I try to be purposeful and connect and, you know, work with everyone at the organization- Yeah... and understand a lot of what they do.

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It also helps me with everyone's names [laughs] and titles- Yeah... and things like that.

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But a- as far as like just best practices with the executive team and, and our CEO, I think, you know, just always being available and having that communication, whether it be a phone call.

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Picking up the phone I feel like is a lost art. Mm. Like so many things can be avoided or, you know, worked out if you just- Drop your cell phone number into the... No. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, right. [laughs] Call me.

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Yeah. Call, call, call [laughs] me anytime.

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[laughs] But I think, um, I think that's just a lo- a lost art and, you know, I, I look at picking up the phone the same as, like for virtual, the same as like popping up- Mm...

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and just talking to somebody and, and like, "Hey, I saw your email. It was kinda long." You know, ra- rather [laughs] than me also reply- Yeah... with a, you know, three paragraph. Yeah.

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Like, "Let's just talk this out really quickly if you have time. And if you don't, then, you know, I'll send the email and work it out that way or whatever." Yeah.

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But I think just, you know, making the time to connect in person if possible is, is a good best practice. Like, you know, just having that casual quick chat. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like there's a...

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Like I'm even been feeling this. There's like, there's a certain level of like-It's weird to say, but, like, communication norms have shifted so much- Yeah...

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where it's like it does take a little bit of confidence to call. Yeah. Yeah, like, but yet that's the way we used to only communicate. Yeah. I know. [laughs] You know? So like it's, like, so weird to be like...

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But yeah, there's sometimes I'm like, "Oh, do I... Should I call this person or not?" Yeah. It's like, but like w-when you do it, you pretty much always after a phone call, you're like, "I'm so glad I did this." Yeah.

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Yeah. It's, it's just, it's a way to close a loop a lot faster. Mm. Yeah. And I also feel like, you know, sometimes people just wanna communicate and like, "Oh, this per-..."

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Like, some people might see a phone ring and like, "Oh." [laughs] Like, "Why is, why, why is this person calling me? I just sent them an email." Yeah. You know?

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But I, I feel like it's just easier to talk things through sometimes. Yeah. And i-if it can save a meeting, it's even better. Yeah. 100%. You know, like, that, that for sure because, you know, we all are very busy.

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We all have a lot of things that are taking up our time, but if a phone call can alleviate a meeting, that's always preferred as well. Love it, love it, love it. Yeah. Um, yeah.

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Well, clearly the podcast couldn't be an email, so- Yeah, yeah. [laughs]... I'm glad we're having this chat. [laughs] For sure, for sure. Yeah.

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Um, is there anything else you wanna share about either your role, uh, building relationships, in-person connection, um, events in Washington, DC? Um, yeah, anything else you wanna share, Rico? Yeah. Uh, two, two things.

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So, um, you, you kinda touched on it at the end. Events in DC, I mean, anyone, any of your listeners, 2025 is gonna be a big, big year. I mean, obviously- Mm... there's an inauguration.

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Anytime there's an inauguration year, there's always... It, it adjusts the calendar a lot, i-and for not only our events, but everything happening in the city.

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Um, but post-inauguration, you know, we do a really big annual event every, normally January. [laughs] It'll be in- Yeah... February this year, uh, called Global Marketplace. Mm.

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And basically, so we have, uh, 10 international offices, and we bring their, we bring our reps from those offices in. We have, like, panels. It's at the Ronald Reagan Building.

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We invite all of our members and stakeholders. We usually have anywhere between 300 and 400 attendees.

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Uh, that's a really great, uh, event to attend where you can learn a lot more, not only about the work we do, but, like, how the international traveler and, like, the sentiment is, and that's really interesting I always find because, you know, outside of the United States,

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most countries and people who travel from those countries still use travel agents. Mm. And that's, um, you know, really interesting, so that's a great event. Obviously, 2025 is also WorldPride. Mm. Um, gonna be in DC.

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That's gonna be huge. We're really looking forward to that. Uh, also Delta Sigma Theta is having their biannual conference, I believe. Uh, uh, I'm probably butchering that name.

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[laughs] But, but they're gonna have their conference in DC, uh, which is also gonna be really huge. And then, you know, looking ahead to 2026, you know, you got America's 250th birthday, bicentennial, so we're- Wow...

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obviously gonna be focusing on July 4th and things like that. So those are the DC quick updates I'd just share.

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And then the only other thing I would just mention to anybody listening is, you know, if you're on the fence about joining the Chief of Staff Network or if you heard about it but you don't know, reach out to me [laughs] if you wanna get, like, some honest feedback about it.

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I'd be happy to share. But even outside of that, like, I would just tell them to connect with you, connect with Rahul. Mm. Like, it really is great what you all are doing, and, and this conference is, is, uh, like, exact

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what I f-thought I would get out of it, like- Cool... when I originally joined.

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And, and just being around so many other chiefs of staff in so many different industries is really, like, purposefully, like, curated how you guys did everything- Mm...

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down to, like, the table assignments and similar industries. It's just, it, it just is a well-thought-out and well-run, you know, um, c-conference. And I just wanna give you kudos and, and the, the network in general.

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Wow. Yeah. From the events, uh- Yeah... from the event, events guy this, this, uh- Yeah. [laughs]... feeling, uh, really appreciated here. Yeah. No, for sure. Um- I know, I know from experience- [laughs]...

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I, I know from experience that, that things are definitely going wrong. [laughs] But from an attendee perspective, I haven't seen it. [laughs] So, so, so that's how you know it's y- they're, they're good. Cool. Yeah.

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Uh, like Elliot shouted you out, I wanna shout you out, Rico. Appreciate you. So thanks for all that you've done and, and yeah, made, um, the DC Chief of Staff events that you've hosted with us very seamless.

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And, um, you've been very generous, and your, your company has been generous as well. So, uh, appreciate you, appreciate all that you do for chiefs of staff in DC and, and, and beyond. Um, yeah, this has been fun.

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Thank you so much, Rico. 100%. It's been really great, David, and then I'm looking forward to the next one. Yeah. Sounds good. Yep.

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