[upbeat music] Hello.
This is a conversation that I had with Christian Mücke, the creator of the Possible Conference that's in Miami Beach from April 27th to 29th. The Rebooting is happy to be a media partner of Possible for the event.
Thank you to the team there. We'll be around the Font & Glue doing a video series, probably by a pool. So if you see me holding a TRB branded microphone, say hello, or at least don't mock me while we're filming.
I hope to see some of you in the lobby area and around the pools. Drop me a line if you'll be in town. We're gonna get some people together for an informal meetup. My email is brian@therebooting.com.
Now, here's my conversation with Christian about building events. All right. Welcome to the Rebooting Show. I am Brian Morrissey. I am very pleased to be joined by Christian Mücke. Christian is the founder of Possible.
If you do not know Possible, it is in its fourth year. It's the fourth edition this year. It has become one of the sort of tent pole events in the marketing media landscape.
I mean, for me, I would, I would put them as like CS kicks off the year. Everyone has their meetings in Vegas.
They complain about going to Vegas, and then they go to Las Vegas, and they sequester in these suites in the Cosmopolitan, and it has its own sort of rhythms, they all do.
Maybe they see some robots, like, on the show floor, but it's really about the meetings to kick off the year. And then I think Possible has established itself in April as a go-to event. Like, I was a little skeptical.
We'll, we'll, we'll get into that, so I want to be honest. And then Cannes is a major event. All of these things are very different. In the fall, maybe Advertising Week. I think Advertising Week that my... I'm not sure.
DMEXCO used to be, and we'll talk about that, like, particularly in Europe. I don't know if I'm missing any.
But, like, let's, let's get into it, Christian, 'cause I started to know of you, I don't know if we, we knew each other in person, when you were basically the face of DMEXCO.
Like, I thought of DMEXCO like I thought of you really. But you didn't start in this events business, right? So you, you were working in Germany, then we'll get into DMEXCO.
But e- e- ex- explain, like, how you found yourself. Yeah. Let me summarize quickly. So yes, I started... I came to the kind of media world becoming the assistant of the German Cannes Lions representatives years ago.
That was back in the '90s. And therefore my first Cannes Lions experience was in '94 or '95, being his assistant. And of course that was purely the creativity event and only happening at the Cannes festival.
Nothing happened on the beaches or in, in all these hotels. Wait, this was in the '90s? Yeah, that was in the '90s. '94, '95. Okay. Yeah. And then I, I- This is before my time. Okay. So you forgive me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As I said, it was different. Should I say more enjoyable? I don't know. It was different. However, so and then over the next following two, three years, I learned about this internet thing which came up, right?
And we learned about, hey, we can run ads, these boring, big static banner ads. I was then the guy in Germany, based in Germany at this time, who sold one of the first banner ads in, in, in the German market.
So I, I run my, run my own little company, you know, kind of agency who were stepping, and I was stepping into this online digital advertising world, very early days.
Then I came to AOL and Yahoo for a long time and worked there in, in the corp world, which was amazing. These brands were outstanding at this time. They were leading the industry.
And then came my move when I left Yahoo in 2007. Beginning of 2007, I moved to New Zealand for private reasons, for lifestyle reasons, with my family. Right.
And what I haven't planned then was that three months later I told my family that I'm flying back to Germany to launch a new business together with my business partner, who was based still in Germany, and that became DMEXCO.
So we launched DMEXCO in 2008, a year later, in a time where we experienced a financial crisis, where our industry, as a kind of virtual industry, you know, we are not running hardware products.
We are not an automotive industry, right, with hardware going into a trade fair hall. Yeah.
So we were, I would say, the first ones who thought about a physical event, like a trade show, for this industry, which was mainly happening on screens, which was weird for many people.
So that was my, my first step- Yeah... into the event world. And, and DMEXCO was always an outlier to me just for that reason. Like, trade shows were not really part of this world.
A little bit with, like, Internet World and- Yeah... what was like Comde- Like, there was a few, and I think the Ad Tech Conference had an element of that.
They had a, they had, they had a vibrant, like, sort of show floor. Well, it was added to events, you know, like CS, which for decades now is a major- But that's tech... tech show.
Tech, tech has, tech has trade shows, and marketing did not really for the most part. But I also think there's like, tell me if I'm wrong here, there's like a little bit of a cultural element. I find, like,
Germany in particular has a lot of trade shows. Is this, is this me, like- No, no, you... I think you're right... stereotyping or something? No, it's... I think you're right.
So you, you can find a proper trade fairground, you know- Yeah... in every bigger city in Germany, and not just in the main capital. However, that made it our life a bit easier. You're right. That so the, the,
the, the willingness, you know, to, to think about such a thing was, was very much there, and therefore we had to put it into a format which works well, right? With the conference added and, and things like this.
But at the end, yes, going into a windowless big trade hall or over the time into many trade halls, right? It became- Yeah...
a 1.5 million square feet event over the time.That was a bit weird for many people still, but the Germans are in a network where we started with, they were comfortable there, right?
Because they, they're used to go to trade shows. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. So this was... When you, when you guys started it, it was more German than international. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
It was definitely designed in the first step for a German market, and then because we were somehow the first of its kind, you know, then we immediately felt an, an interest from European, other European regions, specifically the main markets like France, and UK, and, and Spain, et cetera.
And then it was myself who was very much interested in bringing more gr- the global audience to, to DMEXCO at this time. So I was- Yeah... very passionate about this.
I believe that only with an international audience, whether on stages, but on the show floor as well, with a lot of international exhibitors, it becomes a weird show because Europe was not leading that industry at this time.
It was US and it was other regions. So I was convinced that this needs to be done to become the major event at this time for the industry. And I spent a lot of time therefore in U- in the US and also in Asia- Yeah...
to bring more international audience to, to DMEXCO. Yeah. And, and like, Germany's like a kind of funny market I found, like, with that, in that, like, it's... Well, it's, like, big enough. I mean, I'm gonna- Yeah...
I'm gonna be a little American here, right? Like, so it's like, it's big enough that, like, it throws its weight around that other European countries don't.
But in the global context, like, you know, but that's why people like international. It's like, okay, well, you know, the US market is far bigger. You have to go Pan European to make Europe close to, like, the US.
But I've, I always found the, the German market can be honestly somewhat, like, insular. Very protective. Yes. Yeah. Very protective, especially the media, media companies, et cetera, which is still the case.
But it was, it was a m- we had massive discussions at this time, you know, why we should become, why we want to become so international, et cetera.
And I said, "Well, you know, we, we have to bring everybody who will, who rules the world, you know. We have to be part of DMEXCO.
We cannot believe, you know, as an isolated region here that we, we can do it on our own." So but yeah, you're right. Germany is, is very much protective when it comes to this. I also have to say that, you know,
because I, I experienced this several times, one thing which is not true is that Europe is one country. So coming from the US- Interesting...
especially the ad tech companies at this time, you know, who all expanded into Europe- Oh, they th- they think it's one country? [laughs] Yeah.
So- sometimes I get, got the impression that, you know, you guys believe that this is one country and we can do it, you know- No...
as one, one- [laughs] I can't s- I can't speak for the other 300 and something million- However, yeah, it turned out that it's not, and it turned out that the Germans had to learn that, you know, we have to open up a bit more to other regions, and, and that was the success, I think, of DMEXCO.
Yeah. So one of the things that I rem- I never actually got to DMEXCO, only because, like, it was, it was only two days- Mm... and it was like- Yeah... it was, it wasn't a long time to go to Cologne.
And, and, and we had a team when I was at Digiday in, in London, so they covered off on, on DMEXCO. But the things that I do know about it is one of the hallmarks of it were these stands, okay?
And explain what the stands. Tell me if this is, if this is correct. [laughs] This is correct. I mean, uh, again, you, you go to, to a, let's, let's say you go to CS, right?
And you see th- these impressive stands, you know, big and double storage, and, and all these things. You know, y- pe- companies- They're structures. They're like- Str- They're, they're structures...
in- infrastructures and structures. Correct. And they invest a lot of money into this every year, again, because it needs to be redesigned. You know, you cannot reuse all the material every year and things like this.
And this was such a need and such a passion for this, you know, to present the industry in a more and more professional way, and not just putting up your, your little banner, right, and have a high table, and, and, and two high chairs, and this is called your stand.
So that was so impressive to see, and if you look into pictures from, from that time, especially around 2015, '16, '17, when we were at the high with 60,000 people. So you are the on- you was the only missing one, right?
We had 60,000 people on site- [laughs]... over two days coming from all over the world, despite the, the, the, the, the bad connections, you know, to fly into Frankfurt and then hop on a train to, to Cologne.
[laughs] But maybe that was the, the interesting part for many. Yeah. And so, so you, you left DMEXCO in, in 2019? 18. 18, yeah. 2018. Mm-hmm. Right? And I mean, I was surprised at the time.
I don't want to get into so much detail. You probably don't want to, but, like, I had always thought that you were, like, the, the owner of it, honestly. Like, I didn't know...
I didn't, like, deeply, you know, study DMEXCO or, but I just knew- No, we, we- You and your partner Frank, I just knew that- Yeah... you guys as, like- We had our shares.
I mean, we, we, we were part owner, and we had our shares. And- You had control... then there was... I mean, it's such a long time ago.
However, you know, we had a clear vision, you know, for internationalization and all these things, and there was, there was a s- a strong ask, you know, to, to focus a bit more onto the German market at this time and things like this.
So at the end we've decided, hey, it makes sense after 11 years to go different, different paths and, and, you know, in '18, I mean, nobody knew what, what, what, what would happen shortly after. Some called me- Sure...
you know, I was just lucky, you know, to step out of the event business before the pandemic hit us couple months later. So whatever it is, that was a great time.
Of course, it was an exceptional time, and we made it, you know... We, we created DMEXCO, and it was seen as the international tent pole event for the digital advertising industry at this time. Okay.
So but afterwards you were... I'm sure a lot of people are like, "You're just gonna start DMEXCO again," but you're doing something different. But what did you take from DMEXCO that led to Possible, and how- Yeah...
what, what, what was the thing that you saw missing? Because- Yeah...
as you said, you didn'tYou wouldn't start off in, in the events business, but then you had, like, a decade of, of experience ru- running and scaling this massive event.
But we all take away different things, and, like, Possible is, despite me not going to New Mexico, I believe it is not a carbon copy of New Mexico. No, it's not. It's not. And a, a couple of things.
First and foremost, if you launch-- if you think about ah launching a new business, in this case launching a new event, you have to be different than existing events.
Of course, you cannot just expect, you know, copy and pasting something would, would, would succeed. This was one clear thing for me. You know, I, I had to think about something different.
At the same time, it was obvious for me that the time of creating just big events, mass events, is over, at... E-especially when you think about launching a new event.
If you're an existing, you know, event like CES, you know, or Cannes Lions, you know, you exist for decades, you have a, a lot of history, et cetera, that's a different story.
You're, you're building on that and develop further. But with, with something new in your mind, you have to be different, and it was not just about becoming big. I think quantity is no longer a currency.
It's all about quality, and everybody agrees with this I've spoken to. Whether the, the brands, whether executives, whether tech companies, time and efforts to spend is more valuable than any kind of budget.
So approaching this idea of Possible was not- Yeah... how can I make it commercially successful? How can I make it big to sell it five years later? That would be the wrong approach.
It was purely all about quality, and convince the entire marketing world how it's set up in today's world, which is far more diverse and complex, as we know. To bring- Yeah...
everybody together in a so highly creative way, and I'm not just talking about the stages and the programming.
In many ways, highly curated that people see this as a huge benefit, as an added value to all the existing events in our industry. Because one was... One, one more thing. One was obvious for me.
We are going for not increasing budgets when it comes to the commercial part. We had to go to the existing budgets.
So we had to be so successful that companies and people will take money away from other events to, to put into- to spend with us. Okay. And your, the sponsor base, right?
Like, I mean, you're- you've got attendee, you know, revenue, but you also have sponsor revenue. Yeah. And sponsor revenue is usually, I don't know how it is in your model, but it's usually larger in, in these models.
And m- a lot of the sponsor, and honestly, the attendees, I mean, it... They- these are substitutable in some way. Like, I mean, you do have to make budget decisions. Mm-hmm.
You know, and like, you know, you put it on the calendar when you did, and I think it was probably strategic between CES and Cannes. Like, you're not... You know, there was ta- there was talk for a while.
I think Martin Sorrell really kicked it off by saying Cannes was too brash and stuff one year, and just because it was too, too expensive. Yeah. And it is expensive, trust me.
So- And Martin also told me wh- when I, when I, when I was sharing my idea, my vision before I launched Possible with some of the leaders in the market, and Martin, of course, was one of them, of course, we are close friends, and he immediately told me, "Christian, we don't need another fucking event, so don't do this."
[laughs] Okay, so this was not the event he wanted. I think he does one in Cannes somewhere, like, a little bit less expensive than the south of France, and there's a lot of difficulties in operating in Cannes.
Like, it's just... It's, it's a very difficult place. I'm surprised that Essential hasn't, hasn't threatened, if they haven't already, to move it somewhere else. But you, you didn't wanna go head-to-head with that.
Cannes is a, Cannes is a juggernaut. I mean, it's massive. The opportunity you saw was, one, to do a marketing conference, but also situated in close to the United States, in Miami. Yeah.
And that-- And I think that, that's important. Like, you know, getting... Cannes is a, is a global event, right? But there's a lot of Americans who go there.
Tell me what else that yous- you decided was, you know, the white space- Yeah... because you didn't want it to ma- you don't build a... Cannes was built in a totally different generation. Mm-hmm.
A- and so it was started by French cinema owners, for anyone who doesn't know- Right...
the long tortured history, because they started putting ads on movie screens, and so they said, "Hey, we gotta get excitement around this. We gotta get better ads, so let's start- Right... like, a- an awards program."
And it grew out of that. But you decided to do something that was a little bit more, I think it's more, it's more business-focused. Cannes is this way, but, like, it's a weird...
Because of its history, it's, it's a weird, like, amalgamation of things, I think. And also, like, the ecosystem of that, which I think is important. Yeah. It's...
You, you cannot compare us because of the reasons you've mentioned, and, and at some stage, you know, you, you need different events around the year for, for most of the companies who were then targeting different audiences.
But everybody is more, more thoughtful about where to spend time and money with less events. That's my impression from the last couple of years.
So if you're in the range of the top three events, then you're the winner, otherwise you, you struggle.
And it was obvious for me that with the experience from New Mexico, I bel- I still believe in the, in the activation space.
I don't call it trade fair show anymore because I, I wanted something which provides more excitement and more inspiration, and therefore I decided to go to Miami Beach in the US. This is the market.
There was a need for that. It doesn't exist. It didn't exist at this time. And Miami, obviously, is... It, it was for, for all the attendees and partners, it was a...
I mean, we all Miami for different reasons, but for the event business, it was the first time going to Miami for such an event. And otherwise, we know Vegas.
You know, everybody goes to Vegas 10 times a year for all kind of events, or New York. However, that allows- allowed me to do something differently, indoor/outdoor activations- Yeah... in combination with a conference.
And this sounds simple, but it didn't exist, and this makes it so unique at this highly curated level I've already mentioned. I'll come back to this later on.And then talking to brands and marketeers.
That Possible idea was designed and discussed with marketeers from marketeers foremost, and therefore the MMA as the association of the industry body for marketeers was heavily involved and, and was, was a key driver as well.
So with this support, and then a lot of industry leaders who just believed into the vision and, and joined me to, to bring it to life, that was such an impressive support, and honestly, I would only do it again in the US because of this- Yeah...
environment which is positive for entrepreneurs. You cannot do this in, in Germany. You cannot do this in Europe like this. Yeah. A- I think that, that's right. Like, so at the... I- it's in the Fontainebleau, at...
which Miamians call the Fountainbleau for some unknown reason. I will call it the Fontainebleau. It's in the Fontainebleau in Miami Beach.
And the outdoor area i-i-it, which is usually a series of pools, it still is a series of pools, but it's surrounded by a lot of these cabanas that, that sponsors take out. They have meetings there.
They have some, like, cocktail hours and, and whatnot, and they're just, like, they're little- Presentations and yeah... I guess I didn't see this beforehand.
But now this year we're expanding into the Eden Roc and Nobu Hotel next door, so we are, we are- Yeah. Yeah... doubling the footprint. It's still one central place, which is great.
You don't need to hop in a cab, you know, or a taxi to go to s- to, to another place.
And we bring around 6,000 people, you know, senior executives from brands, from agencies, consultancies, tech companies, creative economy together.
And this, this environment provides such an energy, but in a positive way. It's not chaotic, it's not too overwhelming. It's created. It's somehow better structured. This year we also go into the beach- Yeah...
with th- running... We are running 3,000 meetings, scheduled meetings between brand marketeers and vendors. In addition to your own schedule you are setting up when you're one of our partners and have your own space.
This is optional. Okay. Are you doing, are you doing that on the beach? We're doing this on the beach, so it, it, it, it- I see. You could do this kind of thing in Miami... could be a better environment.
This is the kind of thing you don't do in New York. Like, you could do this, and not just because there is no beach- Exactly... but, like, Miami would be like, "You want the beach for a day? Absolutely." Exactly.
Things happen there. They love business. They love capitalism. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you bring up a really interesting point, and that is the hosted buyer model, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And so we're gonna get a little event nerdy here. Yeah. There's different types of events. You know, it's not just events. Like, we talked about trade shows. Those have their own... I personally am, like...
As, like, a consumer, I'm horrified by trade shows. But, like, as someone who is a capitalist, I really like trade shows.
Any business where your customers line up at the end to sign their contract for the next year, I like that business. I like it a lot. [chuckles] Mm-hmm. But, like, there's, there's upsides and downsides to that.
Hosted buyer model is one I know really well, because this was the model that was used at Digiday. Digiday. Mm-hmm. And it... And basically it, it involves you...
It's almost like a controlled circ model of, of trade publishing, but you bring in, like, a lot of the sort of target audience, I don't know how else to put it, and, you know, they're your guests, you know.
They might get a travel stipend. They get a, a free... a comp ticket to the event. Yeah. Yeah. And in exchange they, they do, they do meetings with your ecosystem partners, which are the people who wa- wanna sell to you.
Now, that sounds, like, pretty... You know, to some, like in the capital J journalism world, they're like, "That's a little crass." Mm.
Like, this is a, this is a business, and matching up a buy and a sell side is how business takes place. So talk to me about how you decided to meld a few different models with Possible, 'cause I don't think it's...
There's a festival model, there's a conference model- Mm-hmm... there's a hosted buyer model, and it seems like you've taken, like, a few different elements. Absolutely correct.
I like the description as you, as you said. It was the... The challenge was to combine it in a, in a, in a good way that it doesn't feel separated, separate from, from each other.
Obviously, we, we, we, we did this, and it became one great experience.
And on top of that, we have so many different formats that whether you're a senior marketeer, whether you're an tech executives, whether you're from the mid-management, we, we provide different formats for each of those individuals or each of these audiences.
And that makes it so unique that y- you can really pick and choose. And when it comes to whether you want to spend... And it's all optional, right? It's no obligation that you have to go into meetings, for example.
It's optional. But of course, the benefit is it's targeted, as you said. You know exactly who you're going to meet. It's doubled confirmed, double opt-in. So brand marketeers who are committed to the...
committing to the, to these meetings, or a minimum number of meetings over three days, as you said, they get a comp ticket for the entire show. They get a travel reimbursement.
So there's no reason for a CMO, for, for a team leader to, to deny, you know, that, that the team is coming as well. And this is how we bring more marketeers on site. And, and- And that's critical...
it's critical for most, if not all of, of the rest to be able to con- connect with them in different ways. The hosted meeting program- Yeah, because in this world... Yeah, in this world the, like, marketer is...
Like, I always joke that, like, all you need to know about this world is that there are multiple marketer halls of fame. You know?
The fact that there d- isn't just one, that there's [chuckles] multiple ones, tells you the money starts on the marketer side, okay? Yeah. Absolutely.
And it wa- makes its way through a crazy daisy chain ecosystem, and some of it ends up in publishers, [chuckles] a lot of it does not. Yeah. But, like, that, that's how it works, and there's a lot...
And the marketers are the kind of rock stars. And in an ecosystem event, which means you're not just... It's not the A- it's not the ANA, right? Like, you...
But you need to have at your core the marketer audience, right? Even if they're gonna be a minority of the attendees, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
And we, we call it at, at Hive Group, you know, who, who acquired us two years ago-We call them the gold dust. You know, Mark Joshua, our CEO, calls them the gold dust, and this is exactly the right description.
You know, these are the most, well, valuable, but of course, th-they are, they are so hesitant, you know, to go to events, for good reasons.
They, they prefer peer-to-peer conversations because the challenges which are-they are facing are so, so immense, and this is the reason why we came up all over the last three years with additional ideas how to serve the marketing industry and the marketeers themselves.
We have a new CMO experience this year with the CMO lab, which is not a typical conference type of thing, which allows marketeers, senior marketeers to come together in a protected environment for peer-to-peer conversations over three days.
Because they normally don't want to be in a big room with a thousand sellers in the room, right? This is, this is not their style, which I totally understand.
On the other hand, they're happy to send their teams into the meetings, right, and, and to, to bring all the information back into the company. So you keep, you keep the...
I think someone has-had mentioned it to me at one, like, possible, about, like, the CMOs being in, like, the red keep. You know, like, [laughs] they're like, they're, like, sort of like not actually there.
We were saying the market- like, they're there, but like, you know, it's, it's almost like- No, they're there and, and with these things, you know, we keep them on site and, and, you know, and not just having them on stage speaking and then disappear.
This is one big benefit. And of course, there are so many events happening, as you've mentioned at the beginning, you know, happy hours on site and then of course a dinner here and lunch here.
So they are all involved in this. But of course- Yeah... you cannot expect a, a global CMO from one of the top 10 advertisers walking around the show floor or the, the activation space all day long, right?
This is not going to happen. As well as, you know, Elon Musk. When we had Elon Musk there in the first year, of course, he didn't do this as well.
So this is something which just requires a more creative approach to connect the right people together.
And there is always, you know, there's always part of the audience which fits perfectly well, you know, just browsing around all day long and run into each other, while others would like to have a scheduled itinerary before they, before they show up.
I think that's, that's fair and absolutely normal. Yeah. And I think choosing the Fontainebleau was, was, was a good decision because, like, it's unusual for a Miami Beach property in that it is, it's, it's very large.
Like, it almost seems like, it almost reminds me of a little bit of, like, a Las Vegas kind of s- in that, like, most, like, Miami Beach hotels are, are not as large as the Fontainebleau complex, and now they've built out a conference center and it connects to, to Eden Rock.
And really you can... I don't know how you end up seeing it because, uh, I think it was last year I was like, "You guys gotta take over the entire Fontainebleau." We got families on vacations. We got OnlyFans models.
Like, I, I feel bad. I always feel bad. Like, I'm like knowing that it's Miami and they always forget to tell pe-tourists that the tip is included in the bill. Mm-hmm.
That, like, they don't tell the people who are booking that, like, you're gonna be in the middle of a massive mar- not massive- Yeah... but for them it'll be massive- Yeah... massive marketing conference. Yeah.
No, it was...
I remember I went to Miami Beach in '22, March '22, and signed the contract with the Fontainebleau at the end of the pandemic, and it was just a year before the first event should, should, should be launched.
So it was a tough timeline. And I arrived there in March, and it was spring break. As you can imagine, arriving there, I, I was, I was shocked, right, seeing, uh, seeing the- Oh, that was, there's gonna be a...
That was the original spring break too. This is, this was, like, a little wilder. Miami Beach has cracked down on spring break since. Well, it was wild enough for me, right?
And I thought to myself, "Holy, holy moly, how should I do an event here-" It's more PG 13 now, Christian... during these times?"
So but we figured out at the end, we are in April when spring break is over, and of course we are, we are really, really ambitious that, you know, we wanted to have a buyout, a complete buyout, so that we can really keep our audience together.
And this is the case now. So it's a full buyout of the Fontainebleau. Oh, great. A full buyout of the Eden Rock. Next door we have Soho House.
And yes, it was somehow part of the vision, you know, when I thought about how to further grow. Yeah. Well, I think one of the... And tell me if, if, if I'm wrong here.
It's like, one of the weird parts about Cannes is that they leak a lot, you know? I mean, the, the reality is, like, you go to Cannes and there's activations everywhere. Yeah.
Outside of the Palais is where the main sort of programming takes place, but it's so decentralized everywhere in Cannes. People have beaches. People have houses. People have villas. Mm-hmm.
Up and down the Croisette, the main, like, drag. Whereas i- when you're in Miami Beach, you're, first of all, you're not in South Beach, which is good. Right.
And then you're kind of, it's, it's mid beach and you're kind of, like, contained a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you're not, like, isolated where you're a- at some, like...
You know, a lot of people do events in, like- Yeah. We, we did one once at SCAD. You're in a card, you're in a card in prison.
You, of course, and therefore in the evening when all these, you know, gatherings and dinners happening, are happening and parties as well, this also happens in offsite, nearby or in, in somewhere in Miami Beach and sometimes also in Miami, which is great.
So we create an ecosystem, a massive community around this. The event itself will grow further, but it's not about, as I said at the beginning, it's not about numbers per se, right? Yeah.
I don't have the vision that it has to be 20,000, 30,000 in two years' time. It has to be the right quality. Bringing the right people into the room is still the main goal, and then you grow automatically.
But knowing that a lot of more parties, you know, are, are added to, and, and not parties in terms of events, but parties in terms of companies and, and, and the entire ecosystem is now looking into Miami every April and, and is added to the event itself, which- Yeah...
which is another kind of growth, which is great to see by, by the way. You know that this is now becomingYeah, the tentpole event, at least for the US market.
And of course, I would not complain to have an even more international audience over the next couple of years, but let's see. Yeah. No, that, that, that makes a ton of sense.
No, I think it's established itself there on the calendar. It's... And so you- If, if you consider to come back every year, then it's an established event. Yeah, I don't even go to [laughs] DMEXCO, right?
I, again, it was just, it was too far. We had people who were, like, an hour away. They took... They were always like they took the train. They went to the- Right... what is that?
That ExchangeWire Conference used to have it before DMEXCO, and then they would go to this... I don't... I, I, you know, I was just letting them take the lead. That was it. It was nothing about DMEXCO. But, like, you...
It's also capped, right? Like, in, in... I mean, those are, like, big hotels, right? But, like, you can't do... It would be difficult to do, like, a 15,000...
I don't think you could, like, i- in that space anyway if you wanted to. Maybe with the new conference center. I don't know.
You'd have to move over to the- I mean, what I've learned as well is, yes, you need, you need a planning. And, and of course, you have to have a vision which you can share with your audience.
I'm not thinking about the next six, seven, eight years, to be honest, because things are changing so dramatically. Yeah. It will evolve, and I think we are flexible enough, to be honest.
We, we, we have, we have, you know, big convention centers in Miami Beach. We have additional convention centers in the hotels. We have other hotels next to, to those ones we're already using.
So I- I don't know where we will really e- end up in a couple of years' time if it becomes such a big event with tens of thousands of people. Again, I'm not working for that goal every day.
I'm just working on the qualities, right? You'll take it. You'll take it. That's okay.
[laughs] And, and, yeah, let's, let's have this conversation in, in three, four years' time, and then we, we might say, okay, that was...
It's still the same, and it's, it's established as the Davos of the marketing world, right?
Because Davos, the World Economy Forum, it's not the biggest event in the world, but it's seen as the most important one when it comes to a different agenda, as we all know. So it's not necessarily the biggest one. Yeah.
Right. And so a lot of publishers are, are pivoting to events. Mm-hmm. Right? And I've always been struck by, at least in this industry, and I don't know if it's reflective... I mean, it is in, throughout B2B.
I mean, usually... Yeah, it's weird because in B2B media, you end up having, like, your competitive set is totally different, right?
Because a lot of the business models are around events, and your competitors are not just other publishers. And I think, I think lots of publishers are finding this out now, not just in B2B. It's trade associations.
They, they ha- often have, like, the biggest event in a sector. It's independent. It's, you know, events organizations like Possible is not a... It, it's not like a publisher, right? Mm-hmm.
I mean, you publish content, but it, but it's not at its r- heart a publisher. And I think that there's upsides and downsides to, to both approaches.
What would you say are the dynamics that a lot of publishers get wrong when they do events versus, like, when people who are not publishers, who are not, you know, content...
I don't wanna say content-focused, but like- Mm... you know what I mean.
Like, publishers, like, media, how media approaches events, I find, particularly if they're, they come from the journalistic side, it is often very different from how business people pr- Yeah... events.
Because you have live journalism on one side, and then you have people who understand that this is about matching up a buy and a sell side, and the programming and the insights piece are a part of that.
But they, uh, but that is next to, like, cocktail parties. I would always say this to, like, RTO.
I'm like, "The stuff we do on stage is unbelievably important, but don't get this twisted, the cocktail party is just as important."
I mean, that's, that's a very good question, and I, I also would like to in- in- include associations in my, in my feedback to you. Yeah. Publishers and media companies and associations.
I understand that if you have, if you build up such an audience, right? As an association, you have your members. Publisher, you have your audience, your readers and so on.
You want to stay connected with them all year round. And it's, it's obvious that you want to have this also, let's call it monetized, commercialized, connected to them all year round at events.
Yeah, the margins on events are really good. Not too bad. But then you are s- stuck in the middle of the big events, independent events, and those ones who are, I call them boutique events, right?
The 50, 100, 150 people events wh- where the more senior people are, you know, like to be more because of the peer-to-peer conversations, intimate environments.
And this makes it very difficult per se to have an event over one, two, three days with a couple of hundred people at least, if not into the thousands.
A- and then you're, you're also stuck in to, to your audience, right? And, and- Mm-hmm... the, the external perspectives are somehow missing, you know. And this is what I had in mind with Possible.
Embracing the entire economy, embracing the entire marketing world, and not exclude anyone. And I, I was also approached and, and was asked, "Hey, are you, are you, now competing with publisher events or...
" I said, "Absolutely not," because this is an addition, but this is the first of its kind which embrace everybody and everything. And, and I think this is the challenge, and I've seen a couple of failing, right?
I mean, some of these events disappeared in the meantime from publishers and from associations because you need, you need a dedicated knowledge to run events.
It's not just that you can say, "Hey, we are great in creating content," and you can bring content on stage, no doubt, as a publisher. You can bring great content on stage and great speakers because of your network.
But what's beyond that? You have content, and you have...
You create some networking opportunities, but I think people wants also business opportunities, and this is what an event like Possible and others will do, and this goes beyond that.
I've seen too manySimilar events providing content more or less isolated, you know, focusing on one dedicated topic or, or audience, this is not enough in today's world anymore. This is not enough.
And by the way, sorry to say, as a non-American coming to the US and be then invited to those events, in the middle of nowhere for one and a half or two days in a resort disconnected from the rest of the world, if it's not a senior leadership summit, then I don't want that.
You know? I'm ending up in a, in a windowless kind of, uh, a ballroom, ballroom of one of these hotels which look all similar, and, and you see- Do not invite Chris into Scottsdale, to your event in Scottsdale.
He's not interested. This... No, this is not- Very- This is not in- this is, this is not inspiring. I, I don't, I don't see huge benefits out of this, to be honest with you.
Well, that is the irony that's like, you know, look, I spent...
I have, like, a lot of strong opinions about resorts because I spent 10 years where I added it up, I would spend basically 30 days a year in resorts, so I have a lot of strong opinions about turn-down service and various other resort matters.
But it was always you're in the most beautiful place, and you're in a, a, a, a windowless, dark, like, uh, hotel ballroom with the same horrible carpets and the chandeliers. Exactly.
I was looking at those chandeliers for almost a decade, so- Exactly... I, I, I hear you. And that is, like, something that I think, you know, like, events are a... They're difficult to do.
They're a details business, [lip smack] and it's not just you roll the ball out and then, like, say, "Hey, we're doing some live journalism. There's cocktails at 5:00." Yeah.
You have to get all the details right, and you are... You have a job to do, and that is matching up people with each other.
People go to events to connect not just with new ideas, that is the absolute part of it, but they, they generally judge the success of the event on who they connected with. At least that's how I do. Yeah.
I went to, I went to a cocktail party last night, and I... The hors d'oeuvres were fine. There was a little bit of, like, quote unquote, "programming" in a discussion, but it was mostly about the people I talked to.
Yeah. So. And there's another aspect wh- what, what I believe is, is m- becoming more important, is also knowing it from my own experience, having...
You know, I, I've seen, I think, all our industry events around the world, uh, in, in, in recent years. Quite often, you're... you come to an event and then you're...
It's your own responsibility to get organized and, and, you know, to get orientation, et cetera. And if the b- the e- event is even bigger, then, of course, you, you...
sometimes you f- you feel really lost and too overwhelmed. People want, want to be hosted.
You need to be a host, which means my philosophy is also if we go into the thousands now coming to Possible every year, at the end, I would like to know everybody's agenda and expectation and, and wishlist to meet their requirements, to meet their expectations.
And this, I, I want to describe with, with that example that you, you...
it's not enough to just call people into a place and then leave it with them to get organized and find their own way, to find the right content, power, and find the right people to connect with, et cetera.
I think in a very meaningful way, they want to be hosted, they want to be curated, and this is what I've meant at the beginning. This is what we try to achieve with Possible.
It's not just bringing thousands together and then, "Yeah, find your own way." We are spending so much efforts and time and, and, and money, by the way, to, to make this a different experience. Yeah.
I mean, there's a drone show, at least there was. Not this year. [laughs] No? Okay. There's still time, may- there, there could be, there could be someone that comes in late.
What do you think of the, like, festival approach to, to events compared to how, how you're doing things? I wouldn't call Possible a festival, but you- Right. I don't think of it as- No, no- Yeah...
but you said, you know, it was a festival component, it was a conference component, and a meeting component, et cetera. I think this, this is a, uh, the right combination.
Festival is people wants to be more entertained, inspired, wants to have in...
be, be more in a creative environment, call it whatever it is, but not entertained in a way that it's, it's only fun and, and, you know, just, just for, for pleasure. Of course it's business. We talk about business.
But you do business, you're more creative, you're more inspired, you're more open-minded, I believe, if you're in such an environment and with people. And by the way, this is why we also came up with the name Possible.
Be in such a positive environment.
You know, we have a lot of challenges to overcome and to, to solve and, and problems and things like this and as an industry, and the environment is, as we all know, becoming more difficult or every year it feels like this.
Let's create a positive momentum with Possible. Let's make everything possible. Let's make the impossible possible.
Let's create this momentum and environment to inspire people so that the outcome is more, is, is more exciting, it's, it's, it's, it's more specific, concrete, whatever you call it, for everybody to take home.
And if we can achieve this, then I, I'm, I'm doing a good job with my team. Yeah. How do you... And, and I guess it's on their side, but you end up having to do it as, as a seller.
Like, how do you f- how do you show ROI on, on what... on the sponsorships, right? Like, so the...
I think one of the things that I always liked about a hosted buyer model is that, that part of the model, and a lot of that was the Digiday model that I'm very familiar with- Yeah... was that it produced receipts.
I was like, "Okay, you had these meetings with th- this, these people, had this much, you know, spending power, and, you know, we did our job."
You know, before we had that model when I was there, it was like, "Okay, let's hope that the sales team did their job at the cocktail party and connected with the people that they needed to."
Whereas this allowed it to be very, like, curated, but also produce, like, receipts. But, like, how do you end up thinking about that? 'Cause I think as, like, as events become- Mm...
so much more important, I know that there's startups, like, working on this. Yeah. The attribution, it, it needs to get far better. Yeah. I mean, this is a, this is a big business. Yeah.
And I also believe that because of s- requirements are far, far more diverse than everYou need different layers.
So first and foremost, which is the core, core thing behind everything, is you bring, in this case, a couple of thousand people together. What is your audience? Who is your audience?
Is it just everybody who belongs to this? Is it, it doesn't matter the seniority level? And, and you have to think about your audience. This is the base for everything.
Those 6,000 or, you know, 6,000 plus executives on site in April, they're all providing such a benefit for our partners who will show up in different ways. So, and then you need different layers.
You need, you need, you need to give everybody, the partner side, but also the audience side, enough flexibility to find their own way, to find each other and, and, and have a more randomly set up agenda every day.
For those who wants to be more specific, we set up these dedicated meetings. You know exactly who you're going to meet. You know exactly the topic you're discussing with.
So we're creating business opportunities, very s- s- specific ones. And then we have the, the, the, the content part, you know, the conference, which provides ideas
for your business, and therefore you are starting to think about who can be... who can help me in my today's business and in my tomorrow's business. And everybody is on site. That's the beauty.
You don't need to leave the event and think about it, "Who can help me?" And then think about six months and reach out to, to different parties.
You have them all on site, tech companies, agencies, consultancies, et cetera, et cetera. So you can do your job, and this is so important to understand. You can do your job.
If you attend, it's possible you can do your job, and you should spend the full three days or three and a half days with kicking off on Sunday in the meetup. This runs your business for the next couple of months.
You, you, you don't need... Honestly, you don't need necessary to go to another event within the next couple of weeks or months because you can really do it here.
Do not just show up and go into a keynote session and then go to a party and then disappear, because then you're running behind. Yeah. There, these opportunities we provide all on site.
So as someone who do- I mean, I do smaller scale gatherings. I don't do to this size or even the size that, that we had done at Digiday when I was there. I'm always amazed at the, the sheer number of events.
Like, you must also be, right? Like, I regularly talk with people who are like... I'm like, "I can't believe," I go on LinkedIn, and I'm like, "There are...
There are some people that I think might be at events, like, 250 days a year." Mm-hmm.
I don't know if other industries operate this way other than the sort of media marketing- I think we're very special as an industry, yes, when it comes to this. [laughs] You sound like a valiant. [laughs] Yes.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna use that euphemism going forward, Christian. Yeah. At least I'll use it as a euphemism. Like, what, what, what do you see... Yeah, what do you see as, as...
Do you see that there's too many events, and, like, what... And, and, and what do you think will end up- No, I'm not saying that- Yeah, good one...
I'm not saying there are too many events because they're all there for a reason, but I'm saying that I, I see people going to less events a year. Okay. So they're spending less time at events. I understand that.
And this, of course, brings some, or will, will create some potential issues for some events, you know, who are not in this critical spotlight.
In general, you know, everybody belongs to the industry, so if you're very, you know, targeted in terms of topic, then you might be well-hosted and, and, and, you know, you, you, you...
It might be a good decision to, to go to a half-day, you know, conference with, with five speakers, you know, and get a deep, deep insight on, on a dedicated topic.
But if you want to get a complete overview of all kind of things which are, which belongs to our industry, then the bigger events are more appropriate for you. So- Okay... are there too, too many events?
There are too many similar events. Let, let's say it like this.
There are too many copycats from my perspective who wanted to take part in this business model, which is an attractive one, you're right, but I don't think that is a long-lasting model. Okay. Christian, thank you.
In part two, we're gonna talk about which the copycats are, but you're gonna have to stay tuned for that. Thanks so much. See you, see you in Miami Beach. Thank you so much. [outro music]