WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:13.500 [upbeat music] We inspire each other and, like, for me, I think that does motivate me just to, like, to feel like you're pioneering something for, for other people. 2 00:00:13.580 --> 00:00:24.990 Like, how can we-- what do we need to do to, like, have longevity in this sport into our 40s and, like, be able to share those things too? Welcome to For The Long Run. 3 00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:34.340 We explore the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated, and how they've been able to achieve sustainable excellence. I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt, and we're so glad you're here. 4 00:00:36.740 --> 00:00:45.760 This episode is sponsored by Eternal. Eternal is a science-backed preventative health company built for anyone who takes their health and training seriously and wants to live up to their peak. 5 00:00:46.460 --> 00:00:54.980 Located in San Francisco and New York City, Eternal provides comprehensive, integrated primary care services in addition to advanced testing and personalized health planning. 6 00:00:55.540 --> 00:00:59.900 They go beyond your biomarkers and data to provide real answers to any of your health concerns. 7 00:01:00.220 --> 00:01:10.950 From proactive care, acute care, and expedited referrals to performance testing, physical therapy, and personal training, they're healthcare providers that care about you and the lifestyle you strive to live. 8 00:01:11.600 --> 00:01:21.480 Whether you're trying to hit a PR, avoid injury, or simply want a better handle on your health, Eternal gives you the full picture and a plan of action. It's the kind of primary care I've always dreamed was possible. 9 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:33.880 Thanks again to Eternal for supporting personalized, evidence-based care for athletes like us. This episode is brought to you by Amazfit, the GPS watch that's a serious challenger to the established watch brands. 10 00:01:34.300 --> 00:01:43.400 I've been using their TRX 3, which is an awesome name by the way, built for adventure. Think ultrarunning, big mountain days, or just forgetting about your charger for a week or two. 11 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:48.700 It's got the same accuracy and features you'd expect from the big-name GPS brands, but without the sticker shock. 12 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:56.039 Battery life, comparable to the best out there, and that's coming from someone who's used many watches extensively over the last few years. 13 00:01:56.100 --> 00:02:09.800 Amazfit's also investing back into the running community, partnering with athletes like Grant Fisher, Ruth Croft, and Rod Farvard, and five podcasts within the Long Run Labs collective, a group of popular running podcasts I've assembled and am helping to create partnerships for. 14 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:17.100 Amazfit is focused on making accurate, reliable watches accessible to everyone, from your first 5K to your next 100-miler. 15 00:02:17.810 --> 00:02:34.080 If you want a GPS watch that performs like the big guys but costs way less, check out amazfit.com or hit the link in the show notes to see the TRX 3, the New Balance 2, and their Helio strap, which provides recovery insights and also functions as a higher quality heart rate monitor worn on your wrist or bicep. 16 00:02:34.860 --> 00:02:49.560 You can use code FTLR for 10% off. Amazfit, performance for everyone. And welcome back. We have Sarah Hall joining the podcast today, making her return to the podcast. 17 00:02:49.660 --> 00:03:02.600 We first recorded it in the fall of 2019 in Flagstaff. Today you're calling in from Crested Butte, and I'm in Boulder. So Sarah, welcome back. Thanks. Good to see you. I guess six years, that seems like a long time. 18 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:11.040 [laughs] Definitely. Um, and you are still running strong. So the first question is always a doozy, and that question is: who is Sarah? I don't know. 19 00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:27.880 I mean, I'm a, like, child of God, likes to run, a mom, wife, passionate about helping people in Ethiopia es- and people living in extreme poverty. Um, an author now. Um, yeah. [laughs] Professional runner for 21 years. 20 00:03:28.920 --> 00:03:43.580 So you are the epitome of, uh, this podcast. The podcast is called For The Long Run, and my goal is to understand what enables people to do it and be successful and keep at it and do amazing things. 21 00:03:43.720 --> 00:03:53.540 We're gonna dive right into it. Like, six years ago we had a similar conversation, and you're running professionally now in year 21. Like, how? Yeah. 22 00:03:53.640 --> 00:04:03.380 It's, um-- Actually, why I wrote my book, [laughs] um, For the Love of the Grind, was kind of like sharing what I could about longevity in the sport. And it's a number of factors, I would say. 23 00:04:03.420 --> 00:04:14.140 It's like, um, you know, mental, physical, spiritual, emotional. It's kind of all of those things 'cause the sport is tough for sure at the professional level. Like, it's, it's an individual sport. 24 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:21.060 It's just you out there being judged, you know? [laughs] Just your body. And so I think like-- And then also it's just hard on your body, right? 25 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:27.980 Just the pounding for so many years and how to, yeah, avoid injuries and stuff. So, so I share a lot of that, like the physical. 26 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:35.020 Also, like, the things that help me mentally, 'cause I definitely was ready to stop running professionally, like, pretty early on in my professional career. 27 00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:44.660 Um, yeah, like 2009 I think I was last place at US Nationals in the track and really struggling physically but also, like, mentally to really enjoy competing. 28 00:04:44.760 --> 00:04:56.840 Um, and so, so really I, I, like-- Yeah, I, I share about, like, for me it was my faith was a big part of how I got rid of that fear of failure and was able to start enjoying competing again. 29 00:04:56.910 --> 00:05:06.900 And then that kind of just started the snowball going the other way and, and also figured out some stuff physically that was going on that helped me just get some more momentum physically and all of that. So, so yeah. 30 00:05:07.170 --> 00:05:13.680 Th- and I g- I guess another answer is just, like, I have an amazing team. Like, I have amazing people helping me, the best people in the world. 31 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:24.240 And so, um, yeah, I definitely couldn't do this alone at this point in my, my career, but I, I really lean on those people a lot. I want to talk about the mental side, the physical side, the spiritual side. 32 00:05:24.420 --> 00:05:36.900 Let's start with the mental side. So last in that race in 2009 to you've had a handful of fourth place performances, some very strong races that you've done over the years. 33 00:05:36.960 --> 00:05:48.820 Like, what is it about continuing to challenge yourself and see what you can do even when things aren't going as you want? Yeah. I think you really do have to love the process. 34 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:51.080 Like, like, For the Love of the Grind, the title of the book. 35 00:05:51.120 --> 00:06:02.520 Like, it's like you have to love the training and you have to love the day in, day out because the, the races are never worth it if you don't-- if it's just for the sake of that. 36 00:06:02.640 --> 00:06:30.836 And also, like-It's like those are just the very public moments of what we do, but like there's a million private moments where like no one else has been around but maybe Ryan, you know, that like I treasure just as much as like the really good races I've had because just the feeling of what that feels like to be out there and just, um, like, just being in a flow state, like feeling your body just so powerful, like shocking yourself with what you're able to do in training. 37 00:06:30.876 --> 00:06:32.876 Like those moments I treasure like just as much. 38 00:06:32.916 --> 00:06:53.156 Like I did a, a podcast for the Marathon Project, and they were asking me like what my favorite memory was like from that race, and I was like, when I think of the Marathon Project, like I'm more, more than the race, like, and I ran the second-fastest time in US history that day, but like what I treasure more is like the training, like a couple training moments before that. 39 00:06:53.176 --> 00:07:03.996 Like were just so fun, and like, yeah, it was just like such a breakthrough period for me, so like I almost... Like my mind goes to that when you say The Marathon Project. So it's funny. 40 00:07:04.226 --> 00:07:11.576 But, um, but yeah, I think, yeah, when, when things are not going well, really you have to like... I, I kind of look at it as an opportunity to 41 00:07:12.496 --> 00:07:23.826 just get rid of my ego because really that's the only thing that's hard about it is like if that's really all you have to lose is your ego, like to me that's nothing to lose because like I'm always trying to work on that anyways. 42 00:07:23.936 --> 00:07:35.436 So yeah, I, I think when you can frame it that way, it helps you handle like the harder races easier. I love what you said about thinking about the small moments that nobody sees except for maybe Ryan and, and your team. 43 00:07:35.636 --> 00:07:52.336 And so like I just went through this really incredible training block that, um, brought me to Crested Butte where you are today and like staring down a 40-mile race, like totally unsure of like [chuckles] how I was going to do it, and two months ear- earlier I was injured and not able to run. 44 00:07:52.416 --> 00:07:58.936 And standing on that start line, I was like, "My goodness, this was like a dream training block." 45 00:07:59.036 --> 00:08:08.576 And there were so many fun moments of like doing a six-and-a-half-hour adventure day with a, with a 100-mile and 200-mile champion, Rachael Dutrainkent. 46 00:08:08.636 --> 00:08:20.356 Like the moments that I got to experience in the build-up to that day, the way that you, you're sharing it, like it's not just the race day that matters. Like when you can think of it that way, it's super helpful. 47 00:08:20.416 --> 00:08:37.076 And, and I think amateur runners can relate to like having, setting a, like we're not out there winning races or aspiring to win races, but like I spent four years trying to break three hours in the marathon, and people spend, you know, their entire running career trying to break four hours, five hours, six hours, et cetera. 48 00:08:37.676 --> 00:08:49.906 And if, if your only designation of self-worth is, you know, first place or podium or breaking that time goal, like even when you break it, it's also just a moment, right? 49 00:08:49.936 --> 00:09:01.876 Like even when it goes well, if you're so focused on the outcome, that's fleeting, too. It is, yeah. Like my agent, Josh, uh, Cox, also a friend, um, would- always says it's like chasing the mist, right? 50 00:09:01.996 --> 00:09:08.996 Like it's like you never quite-- like even if you achieve it, it's like there's always something else, like, or you have to back it up or you have to, you know. 51 00:09:09.476 --> 00:09:22.196 So yeah, it really, the outcomes, you know, they, they are really special, and like that's kind of the carrot that you, like, it, it helps to have with training and something you're visualizing, some goal you're going after getting up in the morning. 52 00:09:22.316 --> 00:09:31.855 But yeah, the process is, is the fun part, too. I was just talking with Amanda Basham, who's a pro trail runner, about this yesterday, and she was saying pretty much the same thing. 53 00:09:31.896 --> 00:09:41.456 She's like, "You know, if I, if I only evaluated my success as a runner, like based on race day, like I would've hung it up a long time ago." 54 00:09:41.536 --> 00:09:50.296 And she's had some really exceptional races and, and podiums and race wins and, you know, at some of the highest stages, but she's also had the opposite. 55 00:09:50.476 --> 00:10:09.286 And, um, I just think [chuckles] I told her like my agenda with this podcast is to highlight that the pro runners think about running in quite similar ways that amateurs can and perhaps should, even despite, like you're being paid to run, and you're saying it's all about... 56 00:10:09.596 --> 00:10:22.436 not all about, but there's a lot of room to focus on the process, the joy, the fun, the moments, the community, all of the stuff that's quite different than, you know, if, if you just assume that all that matters, it, for pro athletes is winning. 57 00:10:22.476 --> 00:10:27.006 Like that's not correct. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, I feel lucky. 58 00:10:27.176 --> 00:10:48.376 Um, you know, my entire pro career I've been sponsored by ASICS, which is, yeah, over 20 years now, and I, I feel like that has, they've helped me be able to have that perspective, 'cause, you know, obviously performance matters, like even with them, but they aren't like a cutthroat company where it's like you're only as good as your last race and you're gonna get reduced if you don't, you know, perform and stuff. 59 00:10:48.416 --> 00:11:01.116 And so I think when you have that kind of sponsor and that kind of like pressure all the time, like it can be really tough to, like it, it really kind of has to be sometimes about the last race and about performance. 60 00:11:01.136 --> 00:11:15.016 But when you are valued kind of for who you are as a holistic person and athlete and have a little more like loyalty, I feel like it helps to be able to not have negative pressure and be- and have more like the positive motivators in a race. 61 00:11:15.476 --> 00:11:20.656 How do those conversations go? Um, you mentioned that they've helped kind of shape that for you. 62 00:11:20.796 --> 00:11:28.976 How have they done that, and like what does that look like for them to care about Sarah the human versus Sarah the sponsored runner? Yeah. 63 00:11:29.036 --> 00:11:38.796 I would say it's, it's less like conversations and more just, like their actions, you know? Like I think, yeah, I mean, l- like they continued to support me at times I was really struggling on the track. 64 00:11:38.856 --> 00:11:53.706 And, and then like one moment that stands out was like before the 2020 trials, marathon trials, like, uh, we were doing a photo shoot at ASICS and, um, our rep, Ben, was kind of pointing out things about everyone and, and he's like, "It's so awesome to..." 65 00:11:53.976 --> 00:12:03.836 Like I'd just ran 2:22 in Berlin, like sixth fastest time in US history, and he was like, "It's so great to like see Sarah becoming like the athlete we like always knew she could be," you know? 66 00:12:03.896 --> 00:12:11.216 And like that just like meant a lot to me that like, I don't know, they like saw my potential and like they were willing to like stick it out with me through some hard years. 67 00:12:11.776 --> 00:12:19.596 And yeah, I think like-You know, I, I failed to make the Olympic team in Orlando, but, like, my rep's like, "I couldn't have been any prouder of, like, how you ran," you know? 68 00:12:19.636 --> 00:12:29.616 And, and, like, they just-- they took my option year after I really sh- had a really tough race in Chicago last fall. They took my option to extend my contract, you know? And, like, like, those are all... 69 00:12:29.715 --> 00:12:40.596 I think it's more, like, the actions, too, you know? Like, just how they, um, they've, like, just continued to, like, support me and, like, believe in me. Yeah, even, even at 42, it's like, it's easy not to, right? 70 00:12:40.656 --> 00:12:45.056 It's, like, easy to just wanna sign someone younger and-- that comes along. [laughs] Yeah. 71 00:12:45.096 --> 00:12:54.316 And, I mean, when you started running professionally, we didn't have any-- so many of these examples of, of women who are just, like, crushing in their 30s and 40s. 72 00:12:54.356 --> 00:12:58.285 And so what is it like to, like, be leading that charge and showing that... 73 00:12:58.316 --> 00:13:06.836 Like, I just had a conversation with Amanda Brooks the other day, and all of her coaching is focused on women who are 40-plus, or a lot of her coaching is focused on women who are 40-plus. 74 00:13:07.376 --> 00:13:16.096 And she's like, "Look at, look at people like Sarah and, and Keira, and all these athletes who are crushing it." And, like, you're an example and inspiration to those people. 75 00:13:16.136 --> 00:13:30.956 And I just think about, like, how much running has done for me, and thinking about how people can have more confidence in themselves, and just that trickle-down effect of, like, you're out there doing it, so somebody else is thinking that they can be out there doing it, too. 76 00:13:31.016 --> 00:13:39.626 Is that something you think about? Is that like-- is that fire-- fuel for the fire for you? It is, yeah. I think it really-- it's-- especially you go places like Boston where 77 00:13:40.576 --> 00:13:55.836 people are really serious about the sport for their age, and, like, it really-- I th- they've just communicated to me, like, if you're still trying to, like, run with the best people in the world, then it makes it s- feel like my goals, which are, um, not as hard, are still possible for me, you know? 78 00:13:55.916 --> 00:14:02.396 And, um, that is cool. It's, um, it's something that, yeah, I mean, I definitely never imagined doing it at this age. 79 00:14:02.476 --> 00:14:11.266 Um, I remember, I, I wrote about this in my book, that, like, Deena Kastor would joke about being old when we'd be, like, in the weight room, and she was, like, 32. And- [laughs]... 80 00:14:11.266 --> 00:14:18.396 and I was like, "Yeah, that's, that's so old." [laughs] Like, I'm-- like, "I can't imagine doing this at that age," like, I can't... [laughs] Like, I can't believe she's still running. 81 00:14:18.436 --> 00:14:27.076 And at the time, like, that was, like, really, like- [laughs]... like, unusual. Like, most women did not do it past, like, 30. And so, so now to, like... 82 00:14:27.116 --> 00:14:36.376 It's, yeah, it's, I think to now kind of re-standardize things with, with some of us has been-- we're kinda pioneering, like, what, yeah, like, how good can you be? 83 00:14:36.396 --> 00:14:50.636 And, and then we have role models, too, of, like, um, Edna Kiplagat. You know, like, to me, she ran-- she got third at Boston at 44 years old, and that was a stacked field. Like, really, like, really, really deep. 84 00:14:50.696 --> 00:15:02.996 So, like, that to me meant a lot. And, and you see, like, Kipchoge, right? Like, he's, like, 40-plus, right? Like, probably hard to know exactly, like, but potentially 44 or 45 or [laughs] something, you know? 85 00:15:03.046 --> 00:15:12.956 And so, um, so yeah. I think, um, we inspire each other. And, like, for me, I think that does motivate me just to, like, to feel like you're pioneering something for, for other people. 86 00:15:13.056 --> 00:15:20.916 Like, how can we-- what do we need to do to, like, have longevity in this sport into our 40s and, like, be able to share those things, too? 87 00:15:21.776 --> 00:15:31.856 I think a lot of people listening are in that age bracket and, you know, women in their 40s. Like, what do you want to say to them? I would say just, um, keep an open mind of, like, what's possible. 88 00:15:31.876 --> 00:15:41.706 And I think for me, a big thing was not joking about being old, like, being really careful about, like, what I said. Like, because I believe, like, there's power in our words. 89 00:15:41.706 --> 00:15:52.316 Like, what we speak over ourselves a lot of times comes to pass, or, like, it can impact you, you know? So I'm really careful about what I say. Like, I think it's like-- 90 00:15:53.296 --> 00:16:01.676 I think it's cultural to kind of just joke about stuff like that or, like, be sarcastic or use the grandma emoji, you know? Like, "Ugh, I'm old now," you know? 91 00:16:01.696 --> 00:16:09.696 But it's like I don't do any of that, and, like, I've been really intentional, like, not to do that 'cause, like… And I learned that from, um, my coach, Terrence. 92 00:16:09.776 --> 00:16:18.616 So when, when Deena would be joking about being old, he's like, "Deena, like, when you start saying you're old, you start the clock," you know? And, like, he was joking and stuff, but s- but also serious. 93 00:16:18.656 --> 00:16:28.596 And, like, I don't know, for some reason, I filed that away in my head, and I was like-- I was 23 or 4 at the time or something, but, like, I was like, "Oh yeah," like, "that makes sense." 94 00:16:28.636 --> 00:16:36.076 Like, I've seen in my own life, like, how what I speak over myself, like, changes things. So I've-- yeah, I think, yeah, just keep an open mind. 95 00:16:36.136 --> 00:16:47.196 Like, don't, you know, don't, like, think any, any less of yourself or, like, lower your goals or expectations of yourself just 'cause of that, you know? I love that. 96 00:16:47.256 --> 00:16:59.886 I was gonna make a joke about the ripe old age of 35, but I won't now. That's where I'm at. Um, and yeah, it's like the words you use have such an influence on the subconscious, right? 97 00:16:59.916 --> 00:17:10.856 Like, I still think of myself as, like, a 25-year-old, and sometimes that gets me in trouble when I don't do my warm-ups or [laughs] stretching or anything like that. But yeah, it's, it's, it's just a number. 98 00:17:11.376 --> 00:17:19.596 Okay, so moving-- we talked about the, the mental side and, and what's enabled the doing it for the long run, uh, pun intended. Um, let's talk about the physical side. 99 00:17:19.736 --> 00:17:31.736 What are the, you know, your, your secrets to-- your not-so-secrets to longevity in the sport on the physical side? Are there-- are you focused on, you know, honoring recovery in a certain way? 100 00:17:31.816 --> 00:17:42.336 Is there something nutrition-related that you feel is your, your strong suit? Like, how do you, how do you balance or how do you think about the, the physical side of the longevity aspect? Yeah. 101 00:17:42.376 --> 00:17:51.536 I think, um, a big part of it is listening to your body. Like, I think I've always been good at that as an athlete, whereas Ryan would say, like, he was... 102 00:17:51.576 --> 00:17:59.736 Like, that was kind of his downf- one of his downfalls was, like, just getting really married to, like, numbers. Like, "I have to hit 130 miles in the week," or whatever it is. 103 00:17:59.796 --> 00:18:09.136 Like, and instead of just, just flowing with things and doing the right, maybe it's more than that, but maybe it's less than that another week, and I think I've always been really good at that. 104 00:18:09.336 --> 00:18:24.996 Um, and yeah, I, I also work with, like, a really incredible body worker named John Ball, and, like, he's really helped me with my mechanics, especially, like, in, um, I started to have, like, a long injury cycle that started in-After World Championships in 2022. 105 00:18:25.076 --> 00:18:32.976 And, um, yeah, there was a year after that where, like, there were more days I couldn't run than I could run, and that was the first time I've had that in the sport. 106 00:18:33.156 --> 00:18:40.416 I always felt like durability was, like, my strength as an athlete before that, but then I just all of a sudden was completely broken. 107 00:18:40.436 --> 00:18:45.336 And, and so through that process, like, the way out of that was, like, really working on my mechanics. 108 00:18:45.436 --> 00:18:51.576 And so I'm really a big proponent on, like, getting your body to move better, and there's different ways you can do that. 109 00:18:51.736 --> 00:19:01.376 Um, self massage, like, learning how to work on yourself, 'cause, I mean, you can't see a person every day. You know, it's too expensive or it's too not people's life. 110 00:19:01.496 --> 00:19:12.996 Like, they don't have the ability to get off work or whatever it is. And so just learning how to take care of yourself. Also, learning, like, certain form cues that, um, for me, that's really... 111 00:19:13.036 --> 00:19:23.636 Like, I've just improved my mechanics a lot, and I, I feel better than in my 20s now when I run. Like, my- I feel smoother. Like, my s- my stride feels more powerful. Like, and so that's what's cool. 112 00:19:23.796 --> 00:19:34.396 I think, I really wish I'd done this stuff, like, a lot earlier. But I think what's, what's cool is, like, for people in their 40s, just knowing there's, like, there's other things you can... You know, age, you can't... 113 00:19:34.416 --> 00:19:36.306 It's a real thing. Like, it's not just a number, right? 114 00:19:36.416 --> 00:19:47.156 And so it's, it is gonna impact you in certain areas, but there's other things you can improve, and then the net of that could be faster or it could be staying the same. You know? But, um, but yeah. 115 00:19:47.276 --> 00:19:53.336 So mechanics has been one of them for me, and, um, strength training has been a big part of it. Cross-training at times. 116 00:19:53.376 --> 00:20:05.336 Like, if my body's, like, not moving well, I'm more likely to, like, supplement with some cross-training because I feel like I have just, like, a shorter leash now of if, of dis- if there's, like, dysfunction, like, 117 00:20:06.266 --> 00:20:16.616 I have a shorter leash, and I used to be able to re- run through that more. But now, yeah, I'm, I'm less likely to just, like, slog through for the sake of, like, hitting some mileage number or something. 118 00:20:16.656 --> 00:20:28.996 And I've noticed a few more trail runs on your socials lately. Is that, is that a recent change? Is that something that's always been a part of making sure that the running is fun and not just, you know, hard road miles? 119 00:20:29.556 --> 00:20:35.836 Yeah. I would say it's, um, less recent and maybe I just share it more. But, um, I, like, started in the trails. 120 00:20:35.916 --> 00:20:42.336 Like, I grew up just running single-track trails across the street from my house, super hilly, techy trails. 121 00:20:42.396 --> 00:20:53.596 And, and I've always, like, even in college, like, I, I don't know, we never knew that, like, hard long runs was a thing. We'd go out into, like, the trails and, um, in the redwoods and stuff and do our runs there. 122 00:20:53.636 --> 00:21:04.176 I th- and then I got away from it a little bit. Like, just I had some injuries from tripping for a while. [laughs] Like, those were my only injuries were, like, I have size 10 feet. Ankle rolls. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 123 00:21:04.476 --> 00:21:11.296 So, um, but then f- being in Crested Butte more, like, it's like the more, most beautiful spots are, like, in the trails. 124 00:21:11.316 --> 00:21:27.025 And so it's, it's more like, yeah, I just really value the process a lot of, like, h- like, the vibes of where I run, you know, [laughs] is, like, a big priority versus, like, yeah, maybe I can run a little faster if I'm on a dirt road or somewhere flatter, but, like, I just, like, wanna get in the aspens. 125 00:21:27.116 --> 00:21:38.956 You know? And so, um, but also, like, I, I would like to race in the trails eventually. And so it's kind of me, like, just getting comfortable propriocepting, too, like, kind of easing my way towards that. 126 00:21:39.056 --> 00:21:48.456 Um, like, Ryan's stuff that he's done in the trails here in Cal- in Crested Butte just looks so amazing, and he's, he says he's having more fun than when he was running professionally. 127 00:21:48.536 --> 00:21:58.956 Like, he's like, "Like, I enjoy this way more than, like, when I was at my peak." You know? And so that makes me, like, wanna do more of that kind of stuff with him eventually. So, so I'm kind of, like, easing into it. 128 00:21:59.076 --> 00:22:05.496 But, um, yeah. [laughs] We gotta have a chat with him about all the trail running and push him to, to do some racing. That would be cool. 129 00:22:05.576 --> 00:22:11.476 But we would love to see you doing trail races, um, sometime down the, down the road. 130 00:22:11.676 --> 00:22:23.696 I've had conversations with Kara Goucher about, like, her first trail race and her first couple of trail races, and she thought at first that people would expect her to win, and that it would be a huge disappointment if she didn't win. 131 00:22:23.756 --> 00:22:27.416 She, like, came in sixth in a, in a 50K and was super disappointed. 132 00:22:27.746 --> 00:22:39.176 And she was then surprised with, like, how welcoming everyone was, and they didn't really care where she finished, and they were like, "Did you have fun?" and "Did you enjoy the, the buffets at the aid stations?" 133 00:22:39.256 --> 00:22:49.016 and, like, "Did you smile the whole way?" And that's, like, that's the vibe that, um, I think people are, are finding when they race trails, let alone, like, run trails. 134 00:22:49.056 --> 00:23:01.236 And you're in Crested Butte, and, uh, we were just talking before we started recording, and I think that's the most beautiful place in the world, um, at least the places that I've been, and definitely in the state, uh, of Colorado. 135 00:23:01.496 --> 00:23:14.186 And it's just like, [laughs] like, are you kidding me with this? This is stunning out here. So gotta get you up high into the, into the mountains and those, like, 360-degree views of, of mountains all around. 136 00:23:14.216 --> 00:23:21.496 It's just like, I could not believe it was real when I was out there a few weeks ago. That's awesome. Yeah. You know, I definitely, 137 00:23:22.476 --> 00:23:31.296 definitely would love to do that in the future, and I definitely have a lot of respect for trail running. Like, I don't expect to just, like, be able to crush races there or something. 138 00:23:31.356 --> 00:23:39.456 Like, I, I know one pro runner, like, she's like, "Yeah, I'll probably, like, do UTMB after..." You know, and I, like, I have a lot of respect for something like UTMB. 139 00:23:39.536 --> 00:23:47.776 [laughs] Like, I may never be able to do something like that. But, but yeah. I definitely am following the sport more and trying to learn it more from afar. 140 00:23:47.826 --> 00:23:58.096 And, like, um, it helps having, like, friends like Alicia Vargo that's a pro trail runner and just, like, learning it from her and stuff. So, um, so yeah. I'm excited for that in the future at some point. Yeah. 141 00:23:58.176 --> 00:24:08.256 Uh, her and Chris have some really fun trails right in their backyard now they're in Breckenridge. And, um, yeah, the s- the photos that they post, it's just, like... But, and that's, like, right out their front door. 142 00:24:08.336 --> 00:24:22.416 It's wild. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd love to come out here and visit and, um... So yeah, I'm, I'm excited to run more with her on the trails eventually. Amazing. [upbeat music] Reviews are like cheers from the sidelines. 143 00:24:22.516 --> 00:24:34.884 They keep us going and help more runners join this community. Leave one today and help spread the love.This episode of For the Long Run is brought to you by Janji, running apparel designed for everyday exploration. 144 00:24:35.364 --> 00:24:41.964 I've been running in Janji gear for years now, like literally a decade, and what I love most is how thoughtfully it's made. 145 00:24:41.984 --> 00:24:49.764 Their shorts are lightweight but durable, their tops breathe well even on the hottest days, and every detail feels designed by people who actually run. 146 00:24:50.284 --> 00:25:01.104 It's gear I can trust for easy miles, long runs, or travel, and it holds up, and it doesn't chafe. In fact, Janji backs all their apparel with a five-year guarantee, so you know it's built to last. 147 00:25:01.544 --> 00:25:10.544 You can find Janji gear at REI stores nationwide or shop online at janji.com. That's J-A-N-J-I.com. 148 00:25:10.864 --> 00:25:18.704 If you're shopping online, use code FTLR for 10% off your order and see why Janji is the go-to for runners who want performance gear made to explore. 149 00:25:18.744 --> 00:25:30.404 [upbeat music] Are you always thinking about your next mountain escape just like I am? Skip the crowds and head to Leadville, Colorado, the highest incorporated city in North America. 150 00:25:30.884 --> 00:25:41.604 From skiing at Ski Cooper to cozy cabin adventures at Tennessee Pass to January's Fat Bike Worlds and the brand-new Sauna Festival. Yes, you heard that right. Leadville is packed with winter magic. 151 00:25:41.844 --> 00:25:46.783 Come for the trails, stay for the community spirit, and make Leadville your go-to high altitude getaway. 152 00:25:49.044 --> 00:25:56.114 [upbeat music] Well, hopefully there's a long road-running career ahead, but the trail community is thrilled to have you join it one day. 153 00:25:56.764 --> 00:26:16.224 Um, and it's really exciting in trails because there is a focus on speed, and there is a, there is a, there are a lot of, like, 20-year-old, athletes in their 20s that are coming out of college and going straight into trail now, and it's, it's changed from the perception of, like, that [chuckles] trails, trails are where marathoners go to retire. 154 00:26:16.254 --> 00:26:27.484 And, like, to be competitive in trail running, you need, you need really, a really strong base and really, really high levels of fitness. Um, so it- it's cool to see these days. Absolutely, yeah. 155 00:26:27.584 --> 00:26:35.984 I think, I imagine that I would kind of, like, go back and forth. You know? Like, where it's like you do some trail races and then you do some road races. And, like, I've seen that even with, like, Lauren Gregory. 156 00:26:36.024 --> 00:26:44.304 Like, she did, like, a half in the winter this winter, and then she's doing trails now. And, and, uh, Sarah Alonso, I think, ran a half in the winter too. 157 00:26:44.344 --> 00:26:54.104 And so, so yeah, it seems like it's beneficial to really work on that speed and, or, like, to keep-- I think in any event, like, keeping speed close is really important, you know? Yeah. 158 00:26:54.524 --> 00:27:03.504 So a couple years ago, I, I spent a training block training for the mile, and then, um, I did the Crested Butte 55K like six or seven weeks later. 159 00:27:03.534 --> 00:27:18.744 And it was such a wild experience to come into that 55K with that aerobic engine, and, like, I was running uphill at 11,000 feet. And that wasn't because I specifically trained for a 55K and to run uphill at 11,000 feet. 160 00:27:18.904 --> 00:27:30.544 It was 'cause I had that crazy engine from, from the mile. And so yeah, I totally agree. I think that there is so much benefit in, like, getting fast, staying fast, and leveraging that for trails. 161 00:27:30.564 --> 00:27:34.484 But even more so, like as we were talking about before, like, it's just fun, right? 162 00:27:34.524 --> 00:27:43.184 Like, we can make choices about what race to do by categorizing ourselves as road runners or trail runners, or we can just say, like, "This sounds fun. 163 00:27:43.284 --> 00:27:53.824 That sounds fun," and kind of pick things off based on what's stoking the fire in that moment. Absolutely, yeah. I think that's the benefit of kind of being off the, like, track circuit. You know? 164 00:27:53.884 --> 00:28:03.864 I feel like that's, like, a very distinct circuit of, like, what you do, you know? But then, like, in the roads or the, or the trails and stuff, you can really, like, yeah, what's, what's just exciting you. 165 00:28:03.944 --> 00:28:16.404 Like, follow your curiosity, you know? Let's talk more about curiosity. Curiosity's a principle that I've noticed, uh, to be a common trait with people who have done conventionally awesome things, right? 166 00:28:16.474 --> 00:28:28.353 Things that, like, society deems as like, "Yep, that's awesome." So what's your relationship with, with curiosity, and how does that influence your training and, um, how you think about the sport? 167 00:28:29.124 --> 00:28:30.744 I think it's a big part of it, really. 168 00:28:30.824 --> 00:28:51.984 Like, I think it's what kept me in the sport for a really long time because yeah, like I said, like, I was pretty ready to be done early, but then there'd always be some curiosity, like one road race or something that I felt really good where you're like, "Yeah," but, like, there was these, these glimmers of moments where you, like, saw what was possible, and you were like, "I kinda wanna, like, keep going to see." 169 00:28:52.064 --> 00:28:58.004 And you know, I remember I, I didn't make the 2016 Olympic team in the marathon. I actually dropped out. I was in LA. 170 00:28:58.764 --> 00:29:05.524 And it would've made sen- Like, we'd just adopted our kids, and our families were kinda like, "Why are you still doing this?" You know? 171 00:29:05.544 --> 00:29:13.534 [chuckles] And, like, I think, like, you know, it would've made sense just to, like, move on at that point. Ryan had retired. But I think it was just, I was just still curious. 172 00:29:13.584 --> 00:29:25.764 Like, I just really loved the training for that race. It was my second marathon and, or third marathon, and I was just, like, really loving, like, getting faster at marathon training each time out and the process. 173 00:29:25.864 --> 00:29:36.804 Um, so yeah, it's, it's that. It's also curious of just, like, how evolving how we do things. I think Ryan and I have always liked to experiment. He experiments a ton on himself now even. 174 00:29:36.844 --> 00:29:47.324 Like, he's, he was doing this treadmill workout yesterday where he had this giant pile of shoes, and he was, like, doing a 400 in each pair of shoes and, like, like, comparing them and, like, you know, just... 175 00:29:47.724 --> 00:29:53.124 I don't know. Like, he's always keeping a journal of, like, his, all his kind of experiments he does on himself. 176 00:29:53.154 --> 00:30:00.004 And then for me now, I think in doing this in my 40s, it's, it's, you're, you're constantly, like, being like, "What if I did this instead?" 177 00:30:00.064 --> 00:30:08.624 Like, "I, I wonder if I would handle it better," or, "I wonder if I could accomplish the same thing with less risk," or, you know, you're kinda just, just playing around with things, which is fun. It's fun. 178 00:30:08.724 --> 00:30:20.004 Like, I don't-- When I see people that do the same type of training year in, year out, to me that seems boring. Like, I like to evolve what I do and, and do things differently. Love it. 179 00:30:20.044 --> 00:30:28.984 Okay, so New York is coming up in a couple of weeks. What is firing you up about that race in this season? I feel really excited for New York. 180 00:30:29.104 --> 00:30:37.764 Um, I've really only gotten to run it once, like nine years ago, and I'm just, like, a different marathoner since from then. That was, like, one of my first marathons. 181 00:30:37.844 --> 00:30:48.508 And I tried to run it in 2019, but I got food poisoning and had to-Unfortunately, dropped out. I was, like, right before the 2020 trials too. Um, so, so yeah, it's just like a race. 182 00:30:48.628 --> 00:30:59.868 New York's just, like, somewhere I've always raced well. Like, I-- Like, all of my big wins in my career have, like, happened there, and kind of like, it just, like, makes me excited, like that city. 183 00:30:59.968 --> 00:31:08.148 And when I think about totally transitioning to the trails, like, what I, I know I'll miss is, like, moments like New York, like, those kind of stages. 184 00:31:08.188 --> 00:31:21.008 Like, I think that's, like, everything I love about marathon running, like those really big stages, and it's, it's in cities that excite you and stuff. So, so yeah, I think, um, as a place, as a race, like, that's why. 185 00:31:21.088 --> 00:31:36.638 But also, yeah, I think, like, I feel like there's just more I haven't quite seen in my recent marathons that I'd love to kind of, like, prove out there, and, like, I feel like I've gotten away from, like, needing to prove myself to others or myself, like, in my career. 186 00:31:36.708 --> 00:31:46.988 Like, for a long time, I, I've, I've gotten away from that in a healthy way. Like, but I feel like a healthy amount of, like, proving, like, I'm still here, like, I still wanna be competitive and do this. 187 00:31:47.048 --> 00:31:59.048 And, um, yeah, it feels like a fun amount of that. So, um, so yeah, I feel like that too when I think of New York, and yeah, just excited to be healthy and, like, feel the body strong and out there. 188 00:31:59.508 --> 00:32:10.448 With a stage like New York, is it the history? Is it the crowds? Like, the energy around it? What, what's the vibe that you're drawn to there? Yeah, it's all of that for sure. I don't know. 189 00:32:10.488 --> 00:32:18.288 There's just, like, no city quite like New York, uh, how it f- how it feels, and yeah, the history, I mean, I've watched Ryan run there. 190 00:32:18.348 --> 00:32:28.838 I've, I-- for a while, I was going every year 'cause ASICS was the title sponsor, and I was just, like, I was coming from the track, and I was like, "Wow," like, "This is so much cooler." 191 00:32:29.028 --> 00:32:34.128 [laughs] And, like, just, like, was amazed watching. And it's just, like, it's fall. 192 00:32:34.168 --> 00:32:42.228 You know, it's, it's everything that's great about road running, um, like that crisp fall weather and, like, s- the leaves changing in Central Park. 193 00:32:42.288 --> 00:32:49.248 And, like, I, I-- what I like about New York, it's, like, really international. So, like, I feel like every of the major marathons has, like, a different feel. 194 00:32:49.328 --> 00:32:58.128 Like, Boston, it's very much about, you know, people that are very serious about running, like, they have to qualify. They're really, they, they follow the sport. 195 00:32:58.157 --> 00:33:08.858 And then New York is, like, super international, and it's really cool to just see all the different cultures and get to meet people that have followed your career from, like, halfway around the world for a long time, things like that. 196 00:33:09.388 --> 00:33:20.328 Yeah. I volunteered there once, and I think I spectated once, and it-- just, like, the-- Boston has crowds that are, you know, five, six deep, and [chuckles] New York is, like, 10 deep. It's wild. Yeah. 197 00:33:20.368 --> 00:33:31.578 Yeah, they both are just so, so awesome. That, like, there's few races that, like, just make me smile a lot out there, you know, 'cause it's so painful. But those two races, like, I'll just be, like, smiling. 198 00:33:31.628 --> 00:33:44.028 I'm like, "This is just crazy," you know? I ran Boston one year, and I finished, and the next day, my biceps and triceps were sore from, like, going like this the whole way down Beacon Street. Oh, cool. 199 00:33:44.038 --> 00:33:57.948 [laughs] And it's just like, there's noth- there's nothing like, like it. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, let's talk about your kids and the, the fact that they're now out running and, and doing some training with you. 200 00:33:58.008 --> 00:34:09.508 What's that evolution been like? It's been fun. Um, yeah, I would say, like, it's a little less now than it was with my older two daughters 'cause they were both really serious about running. They were state champions. 201 00:34:09.548 --> 00:34:20.688 They went on to run in college. Um, so that was really fun 'cause it was a lot of, like, our easy runs, we would-- like, they could keep up with me at seven min- minute pace, 7:30 pace and stuff. 202 00:34:20.728 --> 00:34:28.308 But with my younger two, they are-- they're definitely, like, not as into running as, as my older daughters, but they still do enjoy running. 203 00:34:28.808 --> 00:34:39.248 They enjoy-- They're both doing cross-country right now, and Jasmine, who's a senior in high school, she's a very, like, social runner, so she will never just go-- wanna go for a run by herself. 204 00:34:39.268 --> 00:34:47.928 But if I'm going for a run, she'll, like, wanna join me. And all summer, she likes to hop in and out of my workouts 'cause I do a lot of 'em on a loop in Gunnison. 205 00:34:47.968 --> 00:34:51.548 And so she'll just, like, run a minute, like, cut across, run another minute, you know. 206 00:34:51.608 --> 00:34:57.268 And, and I'll be doing a tempo run or a long run or something, and she'll be doing little, like, intervals of it, and she loves that. 207 00:34:57.328 --> 00:35:03.188 She'll even get up really early, and, and shows, like, like she wants to be out there, you know, which is-- it's really fun. 208 00:35:03.227 --> 00:35:19.068 Like, for me, like two summers ago, I was, I was really struggling, like, I just didn't feel like myself, and I wasn't responding well to training, and it brought, like, a lot of joy to my training that otherwise would've been even harder, like, to have her out there and, like, experiencing it with her. 209 00:35:19.248 --> 00:35:30.068 Um, but yeah, it's, it's been fun to, like, just see all of my girls kind of have different relationships with running, and I've just encouraged them, like, running is, is always gonna be there for you, you know? 210 00:35:30.108 --> 00:35:34.128 Like, and, and it's something you can always pick up and do, like, whenever. 211 00:35:34.168 --> 00:35:44.528 And my oldest daughter, like, I didn't know if she would keep running after she graduated college, but she's like, "I wanna tr- qualify for Boston." And I-- like, I was like, "Okay." Like, "I don't know how to do that." 212 00:35:44.568 --> 00:35:50.468 Like, I have to look up, like, what do you have to run, and, like, uh, by when, and how do you register? Like, I don't know all that stuff. 213 00:35:50.568 --> 00:36:08.128 So I, like, looked that up for her, and we got her, like, you know, it's-- track season's pretty, pretty late considering you have to qualify by a time by September, and so we found a marathon in Au- late August in my hometown and, um, got to pace her for the second half of that race. 214 00:36:08.198 --> 00:36:13.828 And yeah, it was, um, really fun, like, just getting-- I'm really, really excited for her to experience Boston. 215 00:36:13.888 --> 00:36:25.748 Like, she already loves the roads, and I know that she'll, she'll j- it'll just blow her mind, and so, so yeah, that's, that's always really fun just get, to get to, like, share something you love with your kids, you know? 216 00:36:26.188 --> 00:36:35.188 Like, it's, it's, it's tempting to, like-- You're always, like, trying to make sure they know, like, I'm not trying to force you to become a runner, you know, like, all that. 217 00:36:35.208 --> 00:36:42.708 But at the same time, it is, like, like in-- with anything, like, you wanna find common ground. You wanna find things that you both all enjoy. 218 00:36:42.728 --> 00:36:54.902 And so, so yeah, I've appreciated that.I love that you paced her in the, in the race. That's super cool. Um, Emma Bates just wrote about her, um, experience running a half-marathon in Copenhagen with her friend Erin. 219 00:36:55.572 --> 00:37:02.182 Um, so she was like, "This was wild. Like, nobody was keeping us dry in the corrals, and there was no place to warm up." 220 00:37:02.232 --> 00:37:10.051 And she had, like, a lot of very funny realizations as a pro runner, like, doing a c- the citizens race. Like, what, what was your experience? 221 00:37:10.692 --> 00:37:17.211 Um, what were some of the pieces that surprised you in participating in, in the race in that way? Yeah. I, I know. 222 00:37:17.272 --> 00:37:24.732 I'm definitely not looking forward to those days where you have to, like, be out there for super long [laughs] in the cold and, um, yeah. 223 00:37:24.912 --> 00:37:33.272 I think with Hannah it was like, okay, I guess we have to look at, like, what they're offering on the course for fluids, 'cause you're not getting bottles out there. 224 00:37:33.292 --> 00:37:37.332 [laughs] Like, you know, like, let's practice with what's out there on the course first. 225 00:37:37.382 --> 00:37:49.212 And it was like, oh, like, make sure you, like, go get your bib or things by the right time, because they're not just gonna, like, bring it to you wherever you are, like at the start- [laughs]... in it. So, um, yeah. 226 00:37:49.272 --> 00:37:56.632 I think, yeah, it was, it was, like, this one was nice and low-key, and they, they did a good job taking care of us, 'cause, um, it's my hometown and stuff. 227 00:37:56.732 --> 00:38:03.552 But, but yeah, I w- I was carrying a lot of her gels for her and things that, like, when she does Boston she'll have to figure out, I guess. 228 00:38:03.632 --> 00:38:12.692 But I, I was, like, it was the, the mom in me that's, like, trying to help with all the logistics. [laughs] But... That's awesome. 229 00:38:13.242 --> 00:38:23.592 Um, so you mentioned that one of the things outside of running that's a, a major focus and passion for you is, is helping those that, um, experiencing poverty, and particularly in Ethiopia. 230 00:38:23.672 --> 00:38:31.272 Where does, where does that passion and, and interest come from, and what does that look like in terms of how you, how you're doing that? Yeah. 231 00:38:31.352 --> 00:38:38.252 Um, I talk a lot in my book about, like, where that started at a younger age, um, in trips to Mexico with my youth group. 232 00:38:38.292 --> 00:38:50.672 But, um, but yeah, it's, you know, obviously Ethiopia with my kids, like, I spent a lot of time over there during the adoption process. And, um, I've always, like, been really gripped by the, 233 00:38:51.812 --> 00:39:03.192 by extreme poverty in the world. Like, my sisters, um, does malaria research, so I would visit her in different countries in Africa. And you see the orphan crisis, like, you see just really heart-wrenching s- stuff. 234 00:39:03.252 --> 00:39:15.212 And I think it's really important, I think, to see that firsthand. I think when you're just watching it on TV or hearing about it, like, it doesn't quite hit you the same as being there. And, um, for me, like, 235 00:39:16.232 --> 00:39:25.001 spending time in developing countries, like, totally changed the trajectory of my life. It's what led me to adopt my kids. It's, like, what led us to start our charity, The Hull Steps Foundation. 236 00:39:25.052 --> 00:39:30.622 And, um, so currently, like, we're starting our own project in Ethiopia for the first time. 237 00:39:30.652 --> 00:39:42.402 Thus far we've been supporting really good work happening there with, like, orphan care, and there's, like, over 60,000 kids living on the street in just the capital city alone. So we've been funding, 238 00:39:43.392 --> 00:39:47.172 like, a home for, um, kids coming off the street and different things like that. 239 00:39:47.192 --> 00:39:57.512 But we're gonna actually be starting our own project to help kids coming off the street and, and provide them with either education or job training and get them, like, on a better track of life. 240 00:39:57.672 --> 00:40:09.992 Um, so yeah, so that's been, like, a big thing that I'm working on, um, now that my book is, I'm kinda in the final stages of that, and now this project is kind of, um, a big part of, like, what I'm doing outside of training and my kids. 241 00:40:10.032 --> 00:40:16.992 And to me, this is what I wanna do post, like, running career, and it's what I've always thought I would do after college. 242 00:40:17.072 --> 00:40:28.912 So it's kinda just, like, running's been a really long tangent [laughs] basically from doing this. But I still wanna, um, even while I'm competing, like, continue to, like, work in these areas, for sure. 243 00:40:28.952 --> 00:40:39.972 What can people listening, um, to this do to, to help support that? Yeah. Well, you can, um, donate. You can run a race, um, to fundraise for the charity. 244 00:40:40.092 --> 00:40:53.172 Chrissy Geer just sent me, like, prize money from her track season, which was, like, so touching. Um, and yeah, I think, uh, I'll share a, a lot more about the project as it gets going. Um, but it's something that, like, 245 00:40:54.092 --> 00:41:02.652 to me, I, I don't know, I just, I've always looked at, like, how I spend money, and I'm like, "This money could go to someone that's, like, starving to death," you know? 246 00:41:02.702 --> 00:41:09.532 And it's, like, hard for me to justify living really extravagantly and, like, spending it on, you know, 247 00:41:10.552 --> 00:41:19.002 like, a, a really expensive meal or something when I'm like, I've always tried to live by the Gandhi quote, like, "Live simply so others may simply live," you know? 248 00:41:19.052 --> 00:41:24.552 And there's so much of the world is struggling just to simply survive, you know? 249 00:41:24.622 --> 00:41:32.532 And I think that disconnect of, like, how we live here in the US, like, we feel disconnected, but the, the truth is we're all connected, right? 250 00:41:32.632 --> 00:41:42.312 And so it is impacting us that that's happening, and yet we're living in a, like, this totally alternate reality [laughs] here, you know? So, so yeah, so, um, 251 00:41:43.272 --> 00:41:55.432 the Hu- uh, the stepsfoundation.org is our, um, charity's website, but, um, yeah. [laughs] Another piece that is foundational to your experience is the aspect of religion. 252 00:41:55.752 --> 00:42:06.132 And so how does that play into, and how does your faith play into what makes you whole? Yeah. It's, it's a big part of, as I mentioned, like, for me dealing with the pressure of the sport. 253 00:42:06.212 --> 00:42:16.392 And, and really it was more, like, developing an identity apart from who I was as an athlete. Like, really getting rooted in, like, when you ask, like, "Who are you?" Right? 254 00:42:16.492 --> 00:42:21.112 Like, and I think first, like, ch- I'm a child of God. Like, He created all of us in His image. 255 00:42:21.132 --> 00:42:29.712 And I didn't realize, like, for so long I had kind of made my identity around being successful, 'cause I'd had a lot of success in the sport early. 256 00:42:29.752 --> 00:42:36.272 And, and then all of a sudden it's like, that's on the line every time out if, like, that's where you're getting your identity from, you know? 257 00:42:36.992 --> 00:42:48.452 And, um, I really had to realize, like, I'm worthy of, like, love and belonging, like, no matter what. Like, like, really experience God's unconditional love. And for me, that took a lot of failure. 258 00:42:48.512 --> 00:42:59.740 It took, like, in that time of, like-Getting last at US Nationals to really feel God's love, that he couldn't be, like, any prouder of, like, me, or, like, he couldn't love me any more in that moment. 259 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:04.700 And yeah, I talk about some pretty cool, like, supernatural experiences I've had in my book. 260 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:13.840 Um, and those were really powerful because I grew up in the church, but, like, I always wanted to experience God more than I had, and I always knew there was more. 261 00:43:13.900 --> 00:43:24.500 And so it's a lot, like, I talk in the book about just my quest of that. Like, um, just wanting to experience more of the supernatural and, and how that, like, shaped things in my own life and in my running career. 262 00:43:24.580 --> 00:43:37.160 And it was why we moved to Redding, um, in 2011, like right before the Olympic year, right before Ryan ran the marathon trials. We, like, moved to just, um, see what God was doing in this one area of the world. 263 00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:48.580 And, um, yeah, it's, it's been, um, it's cool. I think in the, in my book, you, you really see my faith journey, like, 'cause it's evolved, too, right? Like, I'm... I definitely don't have the same beliefs or, like, 264 00:43:49.640 --> 00:43:57.420 kind of, I don't operate the same way I did in my faith, like, in high school or college. Like, it's really, like, grown, and I think that's, like, healthy. 265 00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:07.620 But yeah, it's, uh, yeah, it's a big part of who I am, and, like, I think when I, when I think of longevity, like, to me, we're body, soul, and spirit. 266 00:44:07.700 --> 00:44:19.060 And when you just live in the physical, like, there was a time in my career I was just trying so hard to do everything right physically, and I neglected those other areas of myself that, like, I actually was, like, 267 00:44:20.020 --> 00:44:32.480 really poorly performing. But it was when I started to invest in, like, all of that that I actually started performing better, 'cause I think we need to-- we're a whole person. And yeah, you can't neglect those areas. 268 00:44:33.040 --> 00:44:35.180 How do you think about balance as it relates to that, right? 269 00:44:35.250 --> 00:44:46.780 'Cause people, people will often say you can have different priorities, or you can have different things that are important to you, and it's very hard to, to focus on all of them equally all the time. 270 00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:53.620 So is there, like, an ebbing and flowing of these different pieces of, of Sarah? I think so. I think there's seasons. 271 00:44:53.680 --> 00:44:59.740 Like, I think, like, going all in as a professional athlete on a sport, like, it's, like, okay for a season, right? 272 00:44:59.860 --> 00:45:09.600 But it's like, it's probably not a healthy thing for your entire life to be, to live that, like, focused singularly on, you know, like, your performance and stuff. 273 00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:20.380 But yeah, I think-- and I don't think it's necessarily, like, trying to spend the same amount of time, like, doing everything. It's more just, like, like how do I still get filled up in this area? 274 00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:33.280 Like, even if it's spending, like, 10 minutes to meditate or, like, get, like, taking the extra time to drive somewhere beautiful to run because, like, getting in nature is, like, really important to my spiritual side, you know? 275 00:45:33.340 --> 00:45:44.660 And whatever it is, like, it's, uh, I think just, like, yeah, just being intentional with all of them at once. Speaking of intentionality, you've been pretty intentional with where you live and train. 276 00:45:44.900 --> 00:45:58.540 Talk to me about how, how you think about that, and, and I think that, like, I always envisioned myself living in Massachusetts for my whole life, and I ended up in Colorado temporarily, and then it's been four years. 277 00:45:59.340 --> 00:46:10.250 And I think that there's a lot of good, a lot of value in changing your environment and changing the, the day-to-day and what normal looks like and this and that. 278 00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:19.560 Like, how, how much of that-- how much do you think about that and, and as it relates to Flagstaff versus Redding versus Crested Butte? Yeah. I've always really liked change. 279 00:46:19.720 --> 00:46:23.780 Um, I'm like a gypsy at heart, so I think, like, I love, like, 280 00:46:24.720 --> 00:46:35.880 like, I've been in Flagstaff a month, I'm like, "I wanna go to Quito and train for a little while," or, like, "I wanna get back to Ethiopia," or, like, there's always the adventure part of me, and that's, that was a fun part of my book, too, is just- You're gonna love trail running. 281 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:47.780 [laughs] I know I will. Um, so yeah. I think, like, for me, adventure, like, fills me up, even if it's just exploring a new run in your own city. But I've always gotten a lot out of, 282 00:46:48.740 --> 00:47:11.920 yeah, like, new places, um, keeping it-- That's really kept my career fresh, I think, and I've always learned a lot from, like, I talk a lot about what it was like to train in Ethiopia and really get embraced by a team there and, like, not just be, like, a tourist kind of, like, observing the, the training there, but I actually, like, have lo- like, spent a lot of time training with a group there and, like, actually seen, like, how they do things. 283 00:47:12.040 --> 00:47:22.380 And that really impacted, like, how I, like, trained for the marathon and w- I feel like what helped me really be successful in the marathon. And so, so yeah. I feel like you gain so much from everywhere you go. 284 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:31.899 Like, for me, the, the place in, in Redding, like, being a part of the church community there, like, I-- that's what allowed me to be able to adopt my kids, I feel like. 285 00:47:32.269 --> 00:47:44.140 I, like, I, I kind of gained all the, like, just personal, um, growth that I needed to be able to say yes to them. And I think also just, like, as a mom, like, you have to-- 286 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:49.620 you're, like, your kids are looking to you, right, for, like, wisdom and, like, direction and everything. 287 00:47:49.670 --> 00:48:02.300 And it's like, I feel like I needed to grow up myself to be able to, like, have something to give them, and if I had just been a mom at 22, like, I don't think I would've been a very good mo- [laughs] you know, like, I don't, I don't think I would've had all of that. 288 00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:13.580 So I feel like all of those places that have shaped me, like, I was able to, yeah, pass that on to them, too. So what were some of those takeaways that you learned from the training group in Ethiopia? Yeah. 289 00:48:13.660 --> 00:48:21.940 Um, you'll have to read the book to find out all of them, but I think, like, a lot of it was, like, a mindset with how they trained. 290 00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:29.980 Like, I feel like we can be really kind of calculated with how we go about things, where it's like, oh, we're trying to just, like, hit this 291 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:36.160 one pace the whole time, or like, we're gonna run in these, like, really controlled settings and controlled places. 292 00:48:36.190 --> 00:48:49.300 And, like, there it was just, like, a lot more wild and, like, a lot more, like, I don't know, just, um, just, like, sending it [laughs] a lot more. And I think I can see why racing, it doesn't feel as... 293 00:48:49.700 --> 00:48:59.600 It probably feels really calm, 'cause a lot of the places we trained were really chaotic, and you just get re- you learn to just kind of keep your peace amidst all of it. 294 00:48:59.700 --> 00:49:15.020 And, and then I would guess, like, you know, moves are being made in a marathon or something, it doesn't feel anything like, you know, dodging stray dogs or like, uh, like, like, really intense traffic whizzing around you or things like that that happen in a, on the roads all the time. 295 00:49:15.080 --> 00:49:25.510 So, um, so yeah, a lot of it was, like, mentally, but also, also just how, like, the workouts they do and yeah, just kind of like, they're not trying to, like, set up workouts a lot of times. 296 00:49:25.560 --> 00:49:34.399 Like, it's just like, yeah, you're not trying to, like, I'm gonna, like, rest for this long tempo and try to, like, really crush it for Strava or something like that. [laughs] Like, they're not, like, doing that. 297 00:49:34.420 --> 00:49:47.320 [laughs] So. Cool. Sarah, this has been a blast. Can't wait to see, uh, your race in New York, and then eventually what the trail racing looks like for you. And, uh, we'll see you out there. Thank you. 298 00:49:47.420 --> 00:49:59.420 I look forward to being out there with you guys at some point. [laughs] Of course. Thanks. [upbeat music] That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs with friends, it's sad when it has to end. 299 00:49:59.720 --> 00:50:07.660 Join us next time as we continue to share inspiring stories from the running community. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or family member who you think would love it, too. 300 00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:16.220 This podcast and accompanying music has been produced by Brian Walters of Singletrack Sound. For The Long Run logo was created by Vanessa Wolf of Sterling Wolf. 301 00:50:16.640 --> 00:50:33.880 This show is produced by Emily Holland and Angie Marie of Wild Poppy Creative Consulting. Thank you for your support, and we'll see you out there. [upbeat music]