[upbeat music] Just with everything I do, I do it to the best of my ability.
So when I'm standing on the starting line, I'm looking back with 100% confidence, knowing I spent every day doing what I could to get closer to whatever goal I'm working towards.
And I'm, you know, I'm pretty strong in my faith, and just knowing, like, I worked really hard, and if it's the Lord's will, it's gonna happen for me.
And I kept telling my dad leading up to the Olympic trials, "Dad, go get your darn passport." [laughs] And he, he went and he got the paperwork. He filled it out.
But he's like, "I'm not, I'm not gonna submit it until I, [laughs] until I know for sure you made the team."
So I don't know what it was, I just had this, this feeling in my heart and my soul that I was, I was gonna make that team, and I was doing the work every day to, to back it up. Welcome to For The Long Run.
We explore the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated, and how they've been able to achieve sustainable excellence.
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This is a recording from a live panel that I hosted for Puma with Molly Seidel, Dakota Lindworm, and Bill Rodgers. Enjoy. [upbeat music] Amazing athletes here over the, over the decades here with Puma.
We have Bill Rodgers. [cheering] Let's hear it for Bill. [cheering] Bill has won many marathons in his day.
Bill has run amazing fast times, and we're gonna talk to him a little bit more about the, the running in the '70s and '80s at-- '60s, '70s, and '80s, and, uh, and some of the shoes that he's been running in today.
He ran with Puma at the Boston Marathon a number of years ago. Um, we have some other athletes, Molly Seidel. [cheering] Do you guys know Molly? Yeah. [cheering] Who knows Molly?
[cheering] [laughs] Do you know Molly's a trail runner now? [laughs] Oh. [cheering] [laughs] Um, and Dakota Lindworm. [cheering] Uh, newly minted Olympian as well.
So we're gonna talk today about, um... Puma released a, a promo recently, or a, an, a campaign recently, see the game through their eyes.
And so what I love about this is it's a way to see the sport that we are all doing through the eyes of an elite athlete.
Um, Bill and I were talking about, o-on the run about how the sport is all about longevity, and it's-- and your ability to perform is based on your ability to stay healthy.
And so that's really gonna be the framework of this and, and understanding the game through, through their eyes. So let's this time start with Molly.
Um, what do you wish people knew about you and, and your training as an elite athlete that they may not know or might not assume to be true, uh, for you as a professional athlete? Yeah.
Um, so I come from a pretty, like, interdisciplinary background. Um, when I was in high school, I would be, like... I, I never actually ran in the winters.
I would just do cross-country skiing and downhill skiing, play a lot of different sports.
And I've found that that kind of interdisciplinary approach, being able to feel like a true athlete rather than just a runner sometimes, has been really instrumental to staying healthy, and that's something that I'm trying to get back to a little bit more with some of this trail running.
[laughs] Um, and I think it's being able to take a slightly broader approach, a little bit more holistic approach is really, really important. Never getting locked into one thing too much.
Bill, about an hour ago we were talking about the, um, the fact that running is not just a single season, it's a lifetime. You ran in these shoes in the Boston Marathon. First of all, let's hear it for that.
[cheering] Look at these shoes. These are the shoes. They still stink. [laughs]Um, Bill, how come you're still able to run today? You know what? I, I think like Molly, I, I...
You know, I started running, I started running cross country when I was a kid, 15 years old, with my brother and our best friend.
It was very low-key, and, uh, we had a good coach, but, but, but our track was just in a field. You know, five laps to the mile type thing.
In cross country we didn't run as far as runners are going today, going the 5K and everything, but it was very low-key.
The, the backwardness to the sport then was there was no girls' team then, and that's, that's, that was 'cause world athletics was backwards, you know?
But, um, but I think if y- if you, if you're a member of a team, that's key. D- don't you think- Oh, yeah... Molly and Dakota?
You know, because you need someone to run with, otherwise you'd never get going, I think, and, and that's why we're here. But I think also later when I went to college, I met a guy named Amby Burfoot. He's right there.
[clapping] Whoo. Boston Marathon winner in '68, and he took me out on the trails, and I never ran that much mileage. And we did like a 12-mile run or something. I- my legs were cramping. [laughs] It was just so much fun.
But I learned about running on dirt in, in nature is what Molly's talking about, you know? And, and that's... All of us are experimenting with and... But that way you avoid injuries, running on dirt.
'Cause concrete, there's no give, and asphalt. And that's the challenge of the marathon. When you go to the marathon, we're hitting that, you know? W- what do you think, Molly and Dakota? Yeah. No, I completely agree.
I mean, we were talking about it before. I did, I did the 26.2 marathon yesterday, or 20 miles of it, and it was all on pavement and I'm like, "Oh, I haven't run on pavement in a while."
[laughs] Um, but I think it's really important to be able to, yeah, respect your body, know that you've gotta give it different stimulus, be hitting it in different ways, build strength in different ways.
Yeah, and I think that makes it fun too. Like, when you switch it up, it keeps it fresh, and then you have a good time doing it. Yeah, exactly. But what if you grow up and like in, you're in Rocky Mountains or something?
I hate heights. I, it's a phobia. I can't do- Okay, hiking is the worst. I know. [laughs] It's so slow. I was in Arizona with my partner, Karen, and w- we went out in Phoenix.
There's all these big cliffs and everything, and I could go a little bit of the ways, but she, like, doesn't have the phobia. So it's mental. Like running is mental. But something...
I think I'd have to go to see a psychologist to do that. But I think I'm gonna stay at sea level. [laughs] Bill, I'm actually just gonna turn this over to you if you, if you wanna ask the questions. This is great.
Have you thought about having a podcast? [laughs] Um, so a bit more on the tactical side. So you guys have been talking about switching up the surfaces and keeping it fun.
People who are listening are like, "Oh, maybe I live in Boston. How do I do that?" Molly, you lived in Boston. How did you do that? Okay. Boston is incredible for trail running. The- Whoo...
Sorry, I keep not talking into this. I, like, I will proclaim to the world that Boston is the best running city in the country because- Whoo... not only do you have... Yeah. N- Amen.
Not only do you have all of the city running, of going on the Esplanade, going down the Emerald Necklace, going down to JP, where every time I'm going around Jamaica Pond I'm like, "Bill Rogers ran Jamaica Pond.
I can run Jamaica Pond." [laughs] Um, but then you go a little ways outside the city, and when I lived here, luckily I had a car, and I would drive out to the Middlesex Fells.
I would drive down to the Blue Hills down in Quincy. I would go out to Concord and run in the Great Meadows. Um, like, all the trails out there. There's a great diversity of, like, running surfaces out here.
You just gotta know where to look for it. [laughs] I totally agree with that. Y- I think, but every city has their places. Mm-hmm. When I...
I'm not from Boston, I'm from Newington, Connecticut, a little town that's out of Hartford. And, but when I ne- came to Boston I was an ex-runner. I was a smoker. Are there any ex-smokers here? You know?
[laughs] I, I, I always ask that question and I, there's, I guess people have given up smoking and everything. That's what they call point and altitude. [laughs] W- does that... [laughs] I think that- Does that...
[laughs] I don't think it did me any good. But when I moved here, I joined a running club, and that was the key. 'Cause then your friends take you out. Exactly, yeah. I- isn't it true?
I mean, that's the best part of being in Boston, there's always a crew to go with. S- so where are you r- Are... You're in Flagstaff now, I think. Yeah. I, I've gotten out of the city, sorry.
[laughs] I remember when you were living here. I've heard your story, and of course Karen and I were cheering for you when you were running the Olympic marathon. I said, "What? How does she do it?
It's like 86 degrees in Tokyo, and this is tough, tough running." And I don't understand how you did it. It's your mindset. But can you tell us about that day? [laughs] This is great. I love this. I love this.
We're just turning it over to Bill. My God, you're like an expert at this, see, John? [laughs] Let's hear it for Bill. Um,
I think some of it, it's, it's learning to deal with some of the adversity of, like, by nature of training in Boston, it's, it's not the perfect training conditions. It's really hot in the summer. It sucks in the winter.
But I think when you're used to doing that and knowing that you just gotta get out and get it done regardless of what the conditions are, I think it builds a little bit of resiliency. And I mean, Dakota's living...
You're up in Minnesota. [laughs] Like, it, I think- Coldest place on the planet. Yeah, exact- [laughs] There is literally no place colder. [laughs] Yeah.
Um, and so I think a little bit of that when you are constantly training your brain to deal with that adversity on a daily basis, by the time you get to the race, you know you can handle whatever it throws at you because you're used to it.
Like, I... Dakota, you can speak to this too. Yeah. I mean, I think you, when you're having that adversity, you show up to practice and you're like, "Okay, it's not gonna be an A day." So then when you hit...
When that happens in races, you're like, "Okay, it's not an A day, but I've done this before. I've, I've challenged myself through this." Mm-hmm. You know, it's just flipped me out because I have one other question.
The k- [laughs] Sorry. Gotta ask this 'cause I wouldn't think of it. But the Kenyans and Ethiopians are so determined.To have the eye of the tiger and everything. But do you think-- Or the eye of the puma, I'm gonna say.
Okay? But do you- Nice...
when you were in Tokyo, and you lined up with all these great runners, the best of the world from all the countries of the world, which is what the Olympics is about, representing your country, weren't you nervous as heck?
Or- Oh my God. Of course... or did you, or did you let go of that and just move up and say, "I, I gotta ra..." Did you know who you should race with, do you think?
Yeah, I think with getting to that race and having, like, the...
I guess the context of it is qualifying a week before the pandemic started, and that entire marathon build, and that year-and-a-half postponement occurred during the pandemic, and it was tough, and it sucked at times.
I, for a year and a half, did not do a single run outside here in Boston without wearing a mask. Middle of summer, you are breathing through a mask, and it's tough.
Uh, but I think overcoming all of that and finally getting to the line, I stepped to the line in Tokyo with such a level of obviously nerves, but also gratitude because it was really uncertain whether or not that race was going to happen.
So I think I was able to let go of some of these expectations that I was holding myself to.
I'm like, "I'm so grateful that I get to be on this line despite everything that's happened in the world, travel internationally, and represent my country here."
And I think that opened me up to a performance that I, I couldn't have believed could've happened even r- a year before then. So it was COVID that made you, in a certain way, relax because we all...
There's no competition. Oh, it gave me terrible anxiety. [laughs] Did you really think COVID made me relaxed? Well, yeah. We, we were all...
I remember running down the road with a mask, and you see someone on the road, and we had to cut to the other side of the road. It was sadness. Yeah.
I had a relative very close to me hit with COVID, so we all know about COVID. Bad sadness. But, but I think maybe that's what gave you your strength. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think it gave the opportunity to, to just grow a lot. Like, I... If the Olympics had happened that year before, I wouldn't have won the medal.
It gave me the chance to grow stronger, to train, to prepare myself to grow up a bit, yeah. What a weird sport we're in. [laughs] Bill, I'm loving these questions.
[laughs] Gonna have to give the mic- We could bring him on as a co-host. I know. I'm gonna... What are you doing every Friday?
[laughs] Um, talking about trusting the process and, and believing that, that what you're doing is eventually potentially gonna work out, but maybe not, but if, if you believe in that process, you'll get to a place that, um, that you wanna be.
I think Dakota knows where this is going.
I watched the Olympic trials in Orlando, uh, with Puma, and watched it next to Dakota's aunts, who just kept talking about how proud they were of her, and they just kept saying she's, she's so confident in herself, and she's just putting herself out there, but doing it in a way that's smart.
She's trusting her skills. She's trusting her, her ability, and she's not, she's not going out too quickly, which if you're running on Monday, don't go out too quickly. Trust me. I've done it twice.
[laughs] Um, Dakota, how do you, how do you trust that process? How do you trust your skills and abilities?
Nobody in this room who's running on Monday can do anything else from a physical training perspective, but they sure as hell can do something from a mental perspective.
I think the big thing for me is just with everything I do, I do it to the best of my ability, so when I'm standing on the starting line, I'm looking back with 100% confidence knowing I spent every day doing what I could to get closer to whatever goal I'm working towards.
And I'm, you know, I'm pretty strong in my faith, and just knowing, like, I worked really hard, and if it's the Lord's will, it's gonna happen for me.
And I kept telling my dad leading up to the Olympic trials, "Dad, go get your darn passport." [laughs] And he, he went, and he got the paperwork.
He filled it out, but he's like, "I'm not, I'm not gonna submit it until I- [laughs]... until I know for sure you made the team." So I don't know what it was.
I just had this, this feeling in my heart and my soul that I was, I was gonna make that team, and I was doing the work every day to, to back it up.
On that note, how early did Montana put the Eiffel Tower on his Apple Watch background? [laughs] That was just actually a couple weeks ago. [laughs] Amazing.
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You'll also get a $20 discount on your first month when you sign up for a monthly plan. Thank you to Fubo for supporting this community. [upbeat music] Um, Bill, let's jump back to the shoes here.
So these are the-- Like, they, they're actually floating. As I hold them, it's going up because they're so light. Um, will you hold these for a second? Um,
so your, your toes were poking out a little bit there it looked like. Yeah.
But these, these are quite different than even the shoes you're-- the trainers you're in today, uh, with the, the wonderful Nitro foam that the Puma team has developed here.
Talk to me about the, the changing of the shoes, the changing of the technology, and if you were-- if you had these shoes in the '70s and '80s, what are you running?
You know, I, I think, you know, I started running in the '60s, but when I got these shoes, I, um, I think whatever shoes you, you're in, you're trying to make the best and you're trying to explore it.
There wasn't-- there weren't so many shoe companies around years ago. I remember New Balance cranking up and, and everything, but when Puma was starting, I ran for Puma for three years. And, um,
but, but I think that everything has changed. You know, it-it's a big business now, you know, and it wasn't such a big business years ago and everything, so I think that was part of it. I mean, look at Ab-Abi Gebrekidan.
He won the Olympic Games barefoot 'cause he was used to running barefoot. You know, his feet were very strong.
So I think, I think having strong feet i-is, is part of it, and I think by, you know, that running, like we've been talking about running on grass and dirt, it helps us avoid injuries and everything.
So I think I did that. I don't know what to say except that, uh, I'm just glad to be here still [laughs] as an older runner. [cheering] [applauding] And, you know, and could, could I just say one thing?
Abby is running Boston this year, and he won it in '68. [cheering] [applauding] He's a couple years older than me, and [laughs]
and there's so much happening in running today with women coming in so much over the last twenty years or so, and thirty or something like that.
And, and, um, you know, from the days of Jackie Hanson, Bobby Gibb, you know, and, um, Nina Kusik, all those early v-veterans of the sport.
But, but also the gentleman next to him is eighty years old, and he's gonna run Boston. I was saying, "How does he get his mind?" [applauding] I was-- That would be scary.
It's that leap of faith that we all have to do, I guess. Is, is that marathoning? But I think it's, you know, that the shoe companies and Puma is coming back, making a big comeback.
And, and so when I ran these, I, I was wearing a pair of shoes that were not, um, cushioned enough 'cause I was so used to wearing shoes without much cushioning.
But, but you feel less soreness in your legs, and we all know that now. Yeah. So I've learned that too. And I have to run with my partner. She's younger than me a bit and trying to kick me into the ground.
[laughs] [laughing] So it's your training partners too. She makes me work a little harder.
So, so you always want one training partner, don't you think, Molly and, and Dakota, who will push you a little bit, but one that will go slow.
And so 'cause you-- we-- slower than you or whatever, 'cause we need our easy days. Yeah. You know, don't you think? Oh, one hundred percent.
You've gotta have like-- You, you know your specific friends that like there are friends that I go to when I'm feeling really good, that I'm like, "Okay, we're gonna haul this run," and then there are friends that I go to where I'm like, "This needs to be a party pace kinda day."
[laughs] [laughing] [laughs] I'm, I'm super lucky that I get to train with Annie Frisbie, who blows my doors off on every track workout. [laughs] Um, she really humbles me.
And then I, you know, I've got my boyfriend who's new into running, and he, he keeps me, keeps me going easy. I'll say that. Are you calling out boyfriends? [laughing] [applauding] [laughs] No. No, no, no.
[laughs] Never Montana. [laughs] No, I, I think he, he keeps me, uh, he keeps me healthy. [laughs] [laughing] That was so cold, girl. [laughing] We're gonna phone a friend. Montana, do you have any questions?
[laughs] Uh. [laughs] He doesn't have a mic. Um, let's, let's keep it on Puma for a second. So Molly, you, you signed with Puma after the trials and before you'd run in the Super Shoe.
Uh, Dakota, Puma bet on you, and here we are. You're going to Paris. What is-- what does this brand mean to you? And this question will, will come back to Bill as well, um, because I'm super curious to that one.
But let's start with Dakota. What does this brand mean to you? And, and I'm just gonna add one comment to it. Look at how many people are, are in this room. If the shoes weren't great, these people wouldn't be here.
But it's the community that this brand has helped to foster, and the way that they treat the people, and the way that the employees love it so much. It's just incredible.
And everyone that's been a part of putting this event on just cares so much. And so, um, let's give a shout-out to the Puma team. [cheering] [applauding] And Hugh Boston, the food is fantastic.
I imagine there may still be people in line, but, um, thank you all. Uh, so Dakota, what does this brand mean to you? Yeah.
When I first signed with Puma, I had really no business getting a professional contract, but they believed in me, and they believed in my dream.
And, um, at that point, it was really just Molly, um, who had been with Puma, and she really paved the way, and we saw what great things she was doing in the shoes, which really made me believe that they, they were putting in the time and the effort.
And in a lot of ways, I feel like I've gotten to grow with them, 'cause not long after signing with them, I ran a two twenty-five, and in, in their amazing shoes.
And, you know, I didn't get four minutes faster on my own.
It was the help of them, and their support, and their belief, and I'm just so grateful because I would-- I wouldn't be sitting right here if it wasn't for Puma.Yeah, I- it's been such an amazing experience for me to feel like I've gotten to grow alongside Puma Running.
Of, I, I came on with Puma when they started this whole rebrand of getting back into distance running. I, uh, had the option to, um, re-sign at the end of 2020.
I was leaving my previous company, and when my agent reached out and was like, "Hey, Puma wants to talk to you," I'm like, "Puma isn't in distance running."
And they're like, "No, they're, they're trying to start something new." So I went into the Boston offices and met with the entire team, and the energy that I felt and realizing, wow, this is something different.
This is something different than anybody else is doing right now, and taking a little bit of a chance, and I told them in the office that day, they're like, "What do you wanna do in your career?"
I'm like, "I wanna win a medal at the Olympics, and I need to find a company that's gonna help me do that. Like, if you guys think you can help me do that, I'm going with you."
And they're like, "We can put you in a shoe that will win you a medal." And I ran my first race a month later in the first iteration of the Deviate.
I ran a minute faster in the half, and I was like, "I think this is gonna work." [laughs] And six months later, I had a medal.
And it's been just, just seeing this growth, seeing two Puma athletes on the podium at the trials when we had no Puma athletes at the last trials. Like, that just, that stuff makes me wanna cry.
It's stuff like that, that it's this groundswell of support. It's the community. It's the fricking shoes. Like- [laughs]... this is what makes it cool and makes me excited about it, and it's only growing from here. Yeah.
Bill, how about you? You know, I, when I ran with Puma, I ran for three years for Puma, and, um, there was, it was, it was almost like now. It's a little deja vu, you know?
But the shoes, you know, the shoes were, are so much better. So Puma was experimenting. They're trying to make their move.
Mike Roche, an American Olympian in the steeplechase, ran the program, and he's, um, a guy that I got to know. And, um,
but I was kind of beyond my prime, so were best years, and the tricky thing about running, you know, look how many of us are here, and we just... Look, how many people are runners in the world?
I don't even know how many are, but a lot of people. There's so much competition, and it's such determination amongst runners, you know?
And, um, so, so, so I remember running here when I, I, I think I, I d- I cracked 2:12 in these shoes. I remember that. My brother... We had a running store in Boston. So my brother saved my shoes, you know? But I, I ran
pretty solid in them, but I, I love the new shoes. If I, like Molly said, you know what works for you, but it took me a while, you know? Now I'm, I'm, like, an older runner and n- it's, like, nothing works for me.
[laughs] No, I'm just kidding. Seriously, I still love running. You know, I've been a runner, like, 59 years, something like that. You c- you can... I always say let's run forever 'cause it's lifetime. It, it's lifetime.
So that's what we're all trying to do, but your shoes are key.
I remember when I lived in JP, running from JP over to Cambridge to pick up a pair of shoes at Brian's Sporting Goods, 'cause I didn't have any money then, and then running back home, and that's what running was like back in those days when it was smaller.
Now, women are here, half our population. It's the way it should be. It should've been then, but there's, the leadership was weak, you know? Now it's strong, like, the BAA is stronger, you know?
And, and they, they, they're doing more and more and more, you know? So we're seeing the sport build and grow, you know? But, but we're all having fun, though I was at the back of the pack today, I was like, "Whoa.
[laughs] You're all ahead of me. I, I hate you." [laughs] But no, not really. No, I was running with my partner. She stayed with me, so it was cool.
So I think my last question or last topic is gonna be around my favorite topic, which is fun. Bill was talking a lot about it, um, and Molly and Dakota have also talked a lot about it.
How do you keep it fun, and how do you keep it, um... You guys are doing this, the two of you are doing this for your career, and if you're not having fun, what's the point, right? So let's start with Dakota.
How do you keep it fun? I, well, I don't know if you've ever seen me run a marathon, but I, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun, and I, I like to show that.
Um, I think fun is really important because it, it kind of gets you out of... When you're too serious, it's, you put too much pressure on yourself, and when you're having fun, you're gonna be the best athlete you can be.
Um, and then, I don't know, I keep it fun by just keeping it light. Like, if, if this is the best thing I ever do in my career, that's fine.
If I never do anything better than making the Olympics, that's gonna be okay with me as long as every day I get to get up and go out for a run. Um, find whatever grounds you in the sport and continue to do that, I guess.
Mm-hmm. I think being able to maintain fun and an, an open mind in your training is really important because it fosters a lot of creativity.
I know we don't think of running as a creative exercise necessarily, but I think when you can hold on to this thing
closely but loosely, you open yourself up to approaching your training and your running and your racing in new, creative ways and constantly reinventing yourself, going out and running with people that you never would think to train with who push you, going out and doing races you never expected, going out and opening yourself up for running across the city with a pair of shoes to go pick up another pair, or
just doing, like, fun things. I'm going out and doing the Paul Revere Classic tonight where we're relaying from Hopkinton all the way in. It's that kind of stuff where
those opportunities open you up to new things, and I think that's the biggest part of it, that I hope that I'm always finding new aspects of running that I love because, I don't know, you're always discovering some new, fun piece of the sport.
Are, are we the luckiest people in the world? I think- Yeah. [clapping] I think, I think we areWe're just still a small population, but we are going to take over worldwide sport [laughs].
Well, I think that's the best part too. It's like- Yeah...
where-- what other sport can we do where you get to come in with hundreds of other people that love the exact same thing that you do and just hang out on a Sunday morning? This is awesome.
Are there any people here who are in their first year of running or something like that? Or no. Most of you... Maybe so. Yeah. Yes [laughs]. Thank God [laughs].
[laughs] But, you know, it's like you should come up here because running lifts all of us, lifts every boat. You know what I mean? You-- That's why we're here, you know?
And we, we can feel it in our minds and how we live, and we're all lucky because most people in the world aren't or never got a chance to become a runner, didn't get chosen to be on a team in high school.
You know what I mean? That sort of thing. But, but here we are. So, so let's keep going for another... Amby, twenty years maybe? We'll try. [laughs] My buddy, my good friend. Anyway... Well, thank you. Thank you all.
Uh, Bill, you, you probably should start a podcast or something because I think that was the biggest takeaway from, from this conversation. Let's hear it for these three amazing athletes. Let's hear it for Puma.
I want to give a special shout-out to Liz Rock over here. Liz put on all of this alongside her Puma team. She's amazing. And Greg, go, go Puma. Go Boston Marathon. Let's... One more time for the Boston Marathon.
Let's hear it. [cheers] [upbeat music] That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs, it's sad when it has to end. I hope you join in next time on For the Long Run, and in the meantime, happy trails.
If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it so that others can find it and enjoy it too. This podcast and the accompanying music has been produced by Brian Walters of Single Track Sound.
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