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[upbeat music] Welcome to For The Long Run, the podcast exploring the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated.

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I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt. I've been running for a few years now and have the privilege of meeting many incredible runners on my travels all across the country.

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This podcast is intended to share those amazing conversations. As a little disclaimer, we had some audio quality issues right at the beginning. We turned our video off, and it was fine for the remainder of the episode.

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I hope you'll bear with us for the first minute or so. Enjoy. And welcome back. I am here in Boston. Uh, I'm here in Boston, but, uh, my guest, Casey Lichteg, is, uh, is not in Boston. She is joining in from...

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Are you in Nebraska today? I'm in Omaha, Nebraska. [laughs] There we go. All right. Cool. So, uh, first question: Who is Casey? Ah, that's a interesting question.

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[laughs] Um, Casey is a physical therapist/road trail ultra runner. Um, live here in Omaha, so have two dogs. [dog barks] You can hear him. [laughs] I don't know what else.

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[laughs] That's a good starting point. Um, so you've, you've done some long distance racing. You've done some road racing. Um, what got you... What got you into running initially? Um, very interesting.

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So back when I was in h- I was in... All sports that did not involve running,

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and finally on my junior year, right during the summer, my best friend, she ran cross country all the time and, "We only need one more person to be a team. Would you be able to come out for cross country?"

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And I'm, like, laughing 'cause I have not ran at all, and she's like, "Please." So of course being a best friend and I wanna hang out with her, I was like, "Yeah, okay, I'll, I'll join."

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[laughs] So literally that's kinda what kickstarted in- me into running, and man, it, it had to grow to be a passion for a while 'cause I, I couldn't run even a half a mile at that point.

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[laughs] But it just became a passion for me just because you could see how your improvement was day in and day out, and you got out what you put into it, so. So that's cool.

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So it took, um, it took sort of a community aspect to get you into running. Is that... Would that be a correct assessment? That's very true, yes. [laughs] And is that why you still do it? Definitely.

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I love being a part of this awesome sport we have. So, uh, when did you realize you were, you were good at it? [laughs] That's funny. Um, that took a long time. [laughs] I finished...

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Basically, I was the last person to finish on our team every meet of cross country. You know, I, I just wanted to be a part of that team, so I worked my butt off to, you know, provide some, you know,

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as much as I could, and then from that point on, I just started to work harder and harder and thought, "You know what? I'm gonna join some road races, do those kinda things." And

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I think just that dedication is what made me start getting better. So, um, I think that it's, it's interesting how the... Like, what got you into it is still what, what keeps you going.

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A lot of people get into it for one reason and then their, their goals and, and objectives change.

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But, um, from everything, you know, that we know about you as a runner, you're, you just love, love the community and, you know, everyone, everyone is in full agreement that you're one of the nicest people out there and, and just, you know,

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fully enjoying the moment, whether it's, uh, a good moment or a bad moment.

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I was at Western States in 2018, and I remember seeing you a handful of times, and it was really cool to see, um, sort of like the, the life in a day, um, replay where, you know, we saw...

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I think I saw you at the 50K, at the 100K, and then 80 miles and then, um... And, and it was just...

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It's fascinating to see the, the different, um, you know, the highs and the lows and the ups and the downs but, you know, with a smile on your face [laughs] in all of these, uh, in all of these moments.

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That's, that's what it's all about. [laughs] So why do you do the long stuff? Why do you like 100 miles? Oh my gosh, I just love that feeling of, you know, pushing beyond what you think is possible and just being able to

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go through those highs and lows and having to, you know, problem solve all the time. I love that feeling. And, like, the longer I run, the happier I get. Even though it may hurt- Yeah...

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it's still making me s- so happy just doing what I love. So

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how did the evolution of road running into ultra running or trail running into longer trail running, how did that happen for you?It, it was interesting.

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So I started out, you know, doing cross country, and then I evolved to doing, like, 5 and 10K road races.

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And eventually I was like, "I want- I kinda wanna do a marathon" and so I talked my mom into running a marathon with me. Mm-hmm.

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And so we did a training, you know, we did it all together, and unfortunately I ended up c- becoming lame during the, like, final two weeks before the race. So

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I was able to finish the marathon, but I couldn't finish with my mom. Mm. She ended up doing the Boston qualifier, but I struggled to, you know, finish. I did finish, but it was just kind of like a wake-up call.

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Like, whoa. [laughs] And I, I loved it. I'm like, "I gotta do this again" and so then it just, you know, I just went to what are my next goal, what is my next goal? And seeing how I can take time off.

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You know, I wanted to hit that standard of the 330 at the time to get the Boston qualifier, and that to me was so hard at that time.

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[laughs] But, you know, with the passion and dedication of just getting out there every day, consistency, training, I finally achieved that, and then I went after, like, faster times. And it wasn't until...

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It was, um, 2011, I had just qualified for Olympic trials in the marathon, and 2012, so it was at CIM, and 2012 was, in February was the race, um, Olympic trials. Mm-hmm.

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I did that, and right afterwards my friend's like, "Hey, at the end of February there's a, a 50K down in Kansas that we always love to go to. It's called the Psycho Wyco. You should come." And I'm like, "What?"

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I have never ran trails ever. [laughs] And 50K, I know it's just five miles, but that sounds crazy far. Mm-hmm. So I thought about it and I was like, what the heck, why not? You know? They talked me into it.

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I went down there. It was the most insanely cold day I've ever had- [laughs]... experienced. It was like, I think the high was, like, maybe 10 degrees. So here I am, my first trail race, scared to death.

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I am like, "Oh my gosh, what do I wear?" So here I am bundled up. I have, like, five tops on. Like- [laughs]... I have two pairs of gloves with another extra huge pair of gloves on.

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I have this big stocking cap, and then, like, my tights, and I'm, like, scared sh- you know, shaking at the start. Like, "Oh my gosh, what am I doing?

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This is so silly" So I started the race and I ended up running with a guy, and you could run with your dog. So his dog was named Tina, and the guy's name was Larry.

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So I ran with Larry and Tina for basically two of those loops. It's 10-mile loops. And then the last loop I was like, "I feel really good. I'm gonna-" [laughs]... you know, 10 miles, I'm gonna see what I can do.

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And I finished that race, and I finished having the most exciting time in my life. Like, I loved every moment of it. And ever since then, that hooked me.

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And even in, even in that first race, it's like that uncertainty that you seem to, seem to thrive on. I do. I, I love to see what I can do. You know, what my mind thinks I can't, I like to see what my body can.

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So what are you, what are you thinking about? What were you thinking about at mile 20 or, or in Western States or 100 mile? What are you thinking about at the 100K?

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At that point I'm definitely just dialing in on my effort and making sure at that point that I'm running at a level that I can finish the race. I, I don't run at that red line, because it scares me.

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[laughs] I like to run knowing that I have just a little bit of extra in the tank so that I feel comfortable running and not kinda that panic of, like, what if I get to mile 78 and I have to DNF because I ran too hard?

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I never want that feeling. Yeah. I wanna make sure I have that little extra tank still. That's awesome. So, uh, you mentioned training for the marathon with your mom.

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Um, you also do some running and, and exercise with your grandma. Uh, let's talk about that. What's, what's that like with, with both your mom and your grandma? Oh, that's such a...

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Oh, I'm so blessed to have both of them. My grandma, she, she loves walking, and she wants to do all these little 5Ks that are local, so she gets out there and she ru- she walk trots, is what she calls it- [laughs]...

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on the trail that we have there in Dannebrog, which is, like, really fortunate. Where there's, like, 300 people, but we have this amazing three-mile trail around the town. And so she gets out there and

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she, um, always lets me know that she's doing her training walks and runs. Mm-hmm.

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[laughs] And so when we are able to experience a race together, like, we like to make sure she can have a, a race to, that she can do too. We'll do our part, and then we'll always go back and finish with her.

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And she just, she loves it. She does it for, you know, just being out there with us. Mm-hmm. Um, she's just, she motivates me to get out there every day, because she's 81, and if she can do it, I can do it.

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[laughs] That's awesome. So is, is gratitude something that you practice? Absolutely. What does that look like for you? Just being able to get out that door every day is something I feel so grateful for.

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And there may be days where I don't really feel like running or maybe I, I'm just not in the mood, but just knowing how, you know, my grandma goes out there, does it.

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Like, she always tells me, "You won't have this every day of your life. There'll be a time when something happens and you may not be able to do what you love doing, so do it now."

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And ever since she said that to me, it's like-I am going out there because I can, and I'm so grateful for this opportunity to do so. That's awesome.

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I had a conversation, uh, on this podcast with Mike Wardian, um, in Squaw, uh, after Broken Arrow this past year. And, um, and so he was running three races that weekend as he, [laughs] as he loves to do.

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And so I asked him, I was like, "Why do y- why do you do it? Why do you, why do you do this? Why do you race so much?" And he had the, a very similar answer. It was, um, along the lines of, "Because at one- at some point

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either this'll be taken away, or I'll- I won't have the passion for it, or, uh, I, I won't be able to do it." And I think that that type of, um, attitude or approach of having that kind of gratitude is, is powerful.

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And, and especially in a time like this, where racing has been taken away from us, uh, and we've sort of been blindsided by it, but we can still run.

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And so it's, it's a gift that we can get out the door and just sort of like clear our mind for an hour a day, or whatever it might be. That's very true. I actually know a lot of people that just run for running.

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[laughs] They don't do races. And it's like- Yeah... I think about it, I'm like, wow, you know, that's even more inspiring because they just do it because they love it. It's not because- Yeah...

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they, they wanna work at, you know, X mi- X goal for this race or whatever. So, you know, we just have to take a step back and be grateful for what we are able to do. So how are you handling the, the, uh,

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um, limited race season? Uh, I was fortunate to be able to go to do a race in the Canary Islands, the Transgrancanaria. So at least got, you know, that race to kind of boost my season until we get to race again.

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So, um, yeah, taking off, you know, Lake Sonoma and Silver State, you know, some of those, like the Lincoln Marathon, those are heavy hitters, you know- Mm-hmm... for your training.

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But you still can train, you still can run, you just have to be more, you know, flexible with things. And they will come back, races will come back, we just have to be patient. And so,

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you know, I hope that Western States stays on there, but again, it could get taken off, and I understand, and I have to be willing to, you know, just bear with it.

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Like, everybody's having to give up things, so it's not just races. Definitely. Um, so how does... Switching gears a little bit, how, how does what you do for work, um, impact you as a runner?

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And first, do you wanna, uh, share a little bit what, a little bit more about what you do, uh, professionally outside of running? Yeah. So I'm a full-time physical therapist.

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And for me right now, I've been working in a hospital setting for the last eight years. And so I see post-op patients, so anything surgical, ortho.

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So if they've had a total knee, total hip, total shoulder, spinal fusions, those are the people I see right after surgery, and I get them up out of bed, I get them walking for the first time, and to the point where they get to go home safely.

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And are you able to, um, are you able to use some of your learnings from being a physical therapist, uh, for yourself as a runner, or is it, is it one of those things where it's sort of like a cognitive dissonance where a lot of experts are experts, you know, with, with others, and they need, you know, [laughs] they need some sort of expert to, to help them too?

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Right. So,

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you know, with my background in exercise phys and, you know, biology, anatomy, it has helped me tremendously in knowing, you know, if I feel something on my body that feels odd or off, whether to know if it's an injury or if it's something- Mm-hmm...

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else related. So that's helped tremendously in keeping me healthy. Um, sometimes I'm too stubborn to be- [laughs] Like we all are- Yeah... and don't listen to those cues or listen to my head.

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But for mo- the majority of it, I definitely have been really h- grateful for that kinda knowledge. And I still- So-...

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do have my own physical therapist that I see, just because I like to have another set of hands or another set of eyes that can s- can see the other things that I don't.

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So how do you, how do you make the decision between, um, pushing through, like, a niggle or, um, taking rest for an injury? Where, where is that line for you, or how do you, how do you decipher that on, on somebody else?

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That's a very good question. It's always changing and evolving. So for me, I, I depict if it's gonna be something tendinous, muscular, or nerve, i- or bone. Mm-hmm. And then decide, okay, how much is this limiting me?

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How much is it comp- like, am I compensating for it? If I'm compensating, then that's a big, big red X. That's gonna cause something else to flare up, so it's like- Yeah...

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nope, we're gonna take some time off, cross-train. Um, you know, it's, the mo- the most important thing is that you don't compensate, and then it's not changing your gait pattern.

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And doing your stretching and exercises is huge to keep you from having those injuries that flare up. For sure. What do you do from a, uh, prehab perspective? Since... I used to not do much, because- Yeah...

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I thought, "Oh, nothing's gonna affect me." Invincible. "I'm fine." [laughs] Yes. Aren't we all like that for a while? Yeah.

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But since that, when I had my-Pelvic fracture, that really woke me up, and now I'm like, "Okay, I have got to do things. I'm not getting any younger."

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So I have definitely been doing stretching, is a huge thing after my runs. I don't do a lot of pre-stretching before runs or anything like that.

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Um, I make sure my, when I start my run, that it's super easy, and that keeps my body so it can warm up and not just push from the get-go.

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Also, I like to use, like, different tools and things to make sure, like massage tools. Um, you know, I'll use dry needling if something starts to get real tight and really irritated, um, from my physical therapist.

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Otherwise, just, you know, really keeping flexible for me is a big thing. Cool. What are some goal races you have in the Midwest? Ooh, obviously Western States. [laughs] Mm-hmm.

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Um, I am excited to run High Lonesome this year. That's the race in Salida, Colorado. Mm-hmm. It's a 100-mile race, so that's a really big goal for me, something I'm gonna be out of my element again for,

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for running on- With the altitude and- Yes, [laughs] 'cause I've honestly never gone above 12,000 feet, so 14,000 is gonna be interesting. [laughs] It's a little bit different up there, isn't it? Yes.

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[laughs] Uh, what is it about Western States you love so much? I've fallen in love with that race ever since the day I re- stepped foot in Squaw Valley. Um, the people, I feel like it's a family to me.

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They've welcomed me there. I've had the biggest highs and the lowest of lows there. So basically, I am like a raw person. You know, my emotions are, are open

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when I'm at that race, and I have so many fond memories. I couldn't imagine not going there and being a part of it. And then how does, how does the European racing compare to, to the, uh, racing here in the States?

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It's a lot different. Like, the starting times for one thing. [laughs] It's so weird starting at, like, 11:00 PM at night or 6:00 PM at night.

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It's just kind of weird to sit around all day thinking, "I'm about ready to race. What do I do all day?" [laughs] Yeah. That part's interesting. Um, you know, the...

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It's a lot of similarities, but there are some differences. I, I love both of them. I think everybody should experience both different types of racing because in Europe, you know, they have a lot... Everybody uses poles.

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So you gotta be Euro and use poles. Right. But, like, in the, you know, United States, we don't have as much of that terrain here to have to use those kinda things. Um,

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but I mean, they're so friendly and inviting, just as well as, you know, Americans are. Cool. What are some big goals you have for yourself, uh, for the next five plus years? Hmm.

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Stay away from the coronavirus for one. [laughs] The next five minutes, yeah. [laughs] Yes. Five weeks. [laughs] Well, one of my biggest goals, I want to make 10 for 10 for Western States. Mm-hmm.

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This'll, this year would be number seven, um, hopefully if it goes, goes on. So I wanna get that 1,000 mile buckle from Western States. That's the biggest goal. Um, and then I still wanna travel the world.

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I wanna go to New Zealand. I wanna be there. I wanna do the Andorra race. Um, I just wanna be out of my comfort zone and experience different things- Mm... 'cause I know what I can do. Right.

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And I obviously, like, I can run, but I wanna see other things that I can do and problem solve, um- Like, like different types of racing or, or different terrain? Or w- what do you mean by that?

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Probably, like, different terrain and types. Mm-hmm. So, like, Andorra is very, you know, it's a beautiful place, but it's gonna be really mountainous and rocky and, you know, using more than just running techniques.

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And also, I would love to do, like, stage races. Mm-hmm.

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I think I would just love to have, you know, a stage race where it's like every day you have to go out there and compete, those kinda things that I haven't tried yet, but I want to.

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Even I've thought about, you know, I kinda wanna do the 24 hour, see what I can do for 24 hours of running.

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[laughs] I talked with Sabrina a little earlier this week about, um, about the 24-hour racing, and, and she was tell, talking all about that, and that's a whole different beast. It's like, you know...

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How do you, how do you approach pacing something like that even? Yeah. That's, that's why I wanna try it- [laughs]... is just to see what, what happens. [laughs] What it's like, yeah.

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Um, so for you, it's really just the exploration of the unknown- Yeah... and, and going into new places and, and trying new things to, you know, to see if you can? That's exactly it.

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I just, I love problem-solving, and running can do that for you. [laughs] Cool. So, um, how has running changed since you, since you began running, uh, as a professional athlete? Hmm.

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Well, I've learned a lot. Um, throughout the years I've learned, you know, what I'm good at, what I'm need to work on, things like that. I know what stresses me out, what doesn't stress me out, so that's been helpful.

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Mm-hmm. Um, you know, just- How has, how has, how has your relationship with social media changed or your, your use of social media changed in the last few years?

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[laughs] Yeah, I was, like, not on anything but Facebook- [laughs]... I remember.And back in the day when MySpace was on- [laughs]... I remember using that.

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[laughs] But now it's like I r- I've, you know, broadened my social media so it's now I could just have the three main ones, like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

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But I try to keep that as a positive platform for people, and something that can be, um, helpful for others, you know, not something that's negative or that's degrading other thing, like other people or

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anything, 'cause that's not who I am. So I stay real. Mm. And I will obviously show my lows or whatever, but that I can c- that we all can come out of those lows. For sure.

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Yeah, I think that's what it's all about, it's sharing the story and, and, um, bringing others along for the ride. So how has your...

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What's been your experience as a sponsored athlete or working with, working with brands? How has that evolved as, as the years have gone on?

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Um, and the reason I ask is I think that a lot of people who listen to this podcast are amateurs and they, they sort of enjoy the, um, in, the behind-the-scenes insight, uh, from athletes like yourself. Yeah.

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So I started off back in, I think it was 2013 when I first started really doing trail running, trail running.

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Maybe it's '14, but I, I ran into Scott Jaime, who was on the Pearl Izumi team at that time, and he was like really great about saying, "Hey, you're up and coming. I think you'd be great as part of this team."

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And at that point, I was like, "Wow, I don't even know- [laughs] "... like this is, this is blowing my mind. Like, what do I have to do?" And he's like- Right...

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"Basically, you just, you know, wear the jersey that we give you, you know, send out, you know, little sponsor things." So it was like really low-key. It was just like I'm wearing this cool jersey, I'm part of a team.

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I l- I love this. So I was on that team for, you know, a year, and then it dissolved because they went back just to biking, which was really sad, 'cause I had a lot of cool teammates at that time.

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And when that happened, that's when Nike was like, "Hey, you... We've watched what you've done. We would love to have you on the team." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is mind-blowing. Like, Nike?" Mm. "Who?

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This little person from Dannebrog, Nebraska- [laughs]... is actually gonna have Nike talk to them?" I was just like floored.

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And so I was on, you know, the Nike Trail team for three years, and I loved it, but at that point it was like they were wanting to me to do too much social media stuff that, you know, I'm not comfortable with that. Mm.

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And doing like, you know, daily posts and everything, and it's like, I have work to do. I can't just go out and d- do all these pictures and stuff. Mm. So I was just like, yeah, this...

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unfortunately, I have to like decline being on the team again, which I had awesome teammates too.

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So then, you know, Altra's like, "Well, we'll pick you up, and we'll just make you have to post, you know, you know, three times a month and things like that." And I'm like, "Okay, I guess. So that, that sounds fun."

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[laughs] So I was able to do that, and I couldn't wear the shoes, so I was really bummed. [laughs] I just could not wear the zero drop. I tried, and I tried, and I tried. I'm like, my body's not made for this. And

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they were so, you know, they were really grateful for me being part of the team and trying it, and they understood that, you know, it's not for everybody. Mm. So yeah.

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Then I was like, I have to have a stack in my shoe that I know I won't injure myself, and I need to feel confident.

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And thank, you know, thankfully, HOKA, I've been on their team now for almost two years, and I love 'em, and I love the shoes and the people. I am so grateful. It's been remarkable.

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And they're not, they don't push me into racing, you know, they'll push me into social media stuff. They just let me do my own thing, which is huge.

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And it's like they, they promote that action speaks louder than words, basically. So you know, just get out there, do what you do, and that speaks enough. Yeah, I think that's awesome.

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Um, I think that there's a lot of, uh, it's a weird time definitely on social media where there are so many brands and, um, you can't tell who likes what or, or this and that.

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And, um, at the end of the day, you can sort of read through the, read through the messaging. And, and if, if you like something, you know, it'll, it'll come out for sure. Definitely. And- So... Yep, go ahead.

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Oh, diversity is great. I think it's important to have diverse things in life. For sure. Um, how do you feel about balance? As in like- Just in-... work-running ratio or? Yeah. It's important to have.

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Right now [laughs] I'm not- [laughs]... doing great with balance because I am on a 14-week quarantine or 14-day quarantine. [laughs] And so I'm like at home like, "What do I do? Oh, I'm gonna go for a run.

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What do I do again later? Oh, I'm gonna go for a run." [laughs] So I love having work be a part of my balance. [laughs] Yeah. I miss it right now. Um, but I, it makes me more grateful for it, that's for sure.

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Um, but it is important to have balance. Like you can, you know, find yourself in a rut, and you need to have something else to take you out of that rut until, you know,

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keep you so you stay healthy and stay not just physically, but mentally healthy too. For sure. So for someone looking to move up in distance, um, in ultras, what do you, what do you suggest?

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I would definitely, you know, start off with a 50K. That's a great step forward. If you've done a marathon, 50K-I would not recommend going from a marathon to, like, 100K. I mean, that's just a lot of work for you.

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It's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot k- that can go wrong. But when you start that process of, like, kind of s- step-stoning up and from marathon to a 50K, 50K to the 100K, you know, or 50 mile even-

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Yeah, I was gonna say-... that's huge... you missed a step. [laughs] There's a 50 mile in there. Some 40s around, but- Right...

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just, uh, you know, those are important things, and if you can get the confidence, that's the biggest thing. You have to have confidence that you can finish a race.

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Or at least- So how do you, how do you, how do you find that? During training. Yeah. You have to make sure that your training is setting you up for a confident race. Because you could be in, you know,

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you could be signed up for this 50K, and say you're like, "Oh, well, my longest run was 18 miles. I'm really unsure." And say the next person over here was like, "I've ran a marathon before. My longest run was 18 miles.

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I know I can finish 50K." You know, that kinda thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You have to have the right mindset going into it. Do you do any, any mental training? [laughs] Every training run is a mental training day.

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[laughs] It really is. I think of things, like, there'll be certain parts of my run, I'll be like, "I do not wanna run this part." And I'm like, "Why?" You know, it'd be like, you know, this is good mental training.

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It's like you gotta do this stuff that you don't like always- Yeah... because it'll help you out in the future, and it really does. It does pay off. So do you, do you like training or racing more? I just like running.

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[laughs] Yeah. Honestly, I, I love both. I love the aspect of racing, because it has that community vibe- Mm-hmm... but I also love being out by myself and just training.

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I d- I enjoy it a lot, just being at peace with my mind and... So- Cool... honestly, I, I like both. But all in a balance. [laughs] For sure. What do you wish people knew about you? Oh, goodness.

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[laughs] The hard-hitting question. [laughs] I have no i- yeah. I really don't know. [laughs] You got, like, a hidden talent? Hmm. Can you play the piano? I used to play the French horn and the piano.

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All right. There we go. [laughs] Cool. Um, well, where can we find you on social media if we wanna follow along with your journey? I am on Instagram, ultrarunnerkc. I'm on, uh, Twitter.

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I think it's KC- I don't even know what my- [laughs] I'm on all of these things. Just look up- Okay... Casey Lickteig, because I'm, like, the only Lickteig around. [laughs] Awesome. And I'm on Strava, too.

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I love, I love Strava. Cool. Well, thanks so much for joining today, and, uh, good luck with the rest of your 14-day isolation. Six more days. [laughs] Yep. Cool. Thanks so much. Awesome. Thank you. Sure.

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That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs, it's sad when it has to end. I hope you join in next week on For the Long Run, and in the meantime, happy trails.

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If you've enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it so that others can find it and enjoy it too