WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:06.980
America leads the world in medicine development. It matters. We get new medicines first nearly three years faster.

2
00:00:07.380 --> 00:00:19.600
Five million Americans go to work because we make medicines here at home, and not relying on other countries keeps us safe. But China is racing to overtake us. Will we let them, or will we choose to stay ahead?

3
00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:29.820
When America leads, America cures. Let's tell Washington to keep us in the lead. Learn how at AmericaCures.com. Paid for by PhRMA.

4
00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:49.680
[upbeat music] Welcome to For the Long Run, the podcast exploring the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated.

5
00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:58.420
I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt. I've been running for a few years now and have the privilege of meeting many incredible runners on my travels all across the country.

6
00:00:58.430 --> 00:01:07.240
This podcast is intended to share those amazing conversations. This week's podcast is sponsored by SynchroKnit, powered by Wigwam.

7
00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:17.580
SynchroKnit uses breakthrough technology, creating a truly fitted sock that doesn't slip, and it enhances the performance of a running shoe. They're tight on the arch and heel, which makes it feel snug.

8
00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:32.480
Go to SynchroKnit.com, S-Y-N-C-H-R-O-K-N-I-T.com, and enter in the code LongRun25 to receive 25% off. I'll be wearing them this spring, and you should too. Enjoy.

9
00:01:35.860 --> 00:01:45.820
And welcome back. I am here with Nick Klustava, uh, who is joining from Baltimore. Nick, thanks for, thanks for joining today. Yeah, thanks for having me. For sure.

10
00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:55.640
So we've known each other, um, on the, on the internet and through Instagram for a few years now, and we met, we met... We finally met down in Atlanta a couple weeks ago.

11
00:01:55.800 --> 00:02:11.899
But for those of you who, those of us out there who don't know you, uh, who is Nick? Yeah. Nick is a man of many hats. I am a father of two daughters, a three-year-old and a one-year-old. I am a runner, avid runner.

12
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:23.579
I am a running coach. I am a software engineer/project manager. Um, you know, I think that sums up most of what I do every day. Yeah. Cool.

13
00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:36.400
So, uh, here on For the Long Run, we're all about, uh, exploring the why and understanding what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated, and, um, you're all about the motivation side of that.

14
00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:46.460
And on social, you're a, you know, you're a cheerleader of, of many, um, definitely more than most. Um, so I want to know what, what keeps you motivated?

15
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:57.300
Uh, what, what keeps you going, um, when, you know, the training gets tough or, or the race gets tough? Yeah, you know, for me, running has always been social.

16
00:02:57.540 --> 00:03:09.740
Like, when I started, it was in high school with a group, with a team, as part of something bigger than myself, and I ran in high school, I ran in college, and then I took some time off after college.

17
00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:16.460
I didn't have a team, and, you know, running by myself was foreign to me, and I think I just sort of lost touch.

18
00:03:16.510 --> 00:03:27.300
And when I started up again at age 30, as I had moved to Maryland and didn't have any friends and sort of just started exploring the social aspect of running again. I met a person on Twitter of all places.

19
00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:36.420
I really never used it back in 2011, but met someone there, and we connected. They had a running group, and then, you know, running again became this social thing.

20
00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:44.399
And a lot of my friends I met in Maryland who started with running and now our kids are friends have all been through this social amazing thing.

21
00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:53.040
So for me, Instagram and sharing people's journeys and motivating them is, is awesome because it, it is what I love so much about running.

22
00:03:54.840 --> 00:04:04.940
And when you got back into, into running after that break, what was, what was the first thing you did? Did you sign up for a race? Did you just put in a bunch of, a bunch of miles? What did that look like?

23
00:04:05.580 --> 00:04:16.040
Yeah, so it was hard. So I was, you know, running D1 and, and running competitively my entire life. When I came back, it was a lot of, "Okay, well, I just wanted to lose some weight.

24
00:04:16.140 --> 00:04:26.650
I don't know if I'll get competitive again, but I just wanted to run." I just enjoyed it. And so I started running, and it took me a while to actually sign up for a race, and when I finally did, it, it...

25
00:04:26.700 --> 00:04:33.980
These competitive juices came back, and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, well, I can, you know, run the same time I ran in college, even though I've only been running for four months."

26
00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:46.400
[laughs] And you know, that comparison trap sort of caught me, and I just, I struggled for a couple years trying to think I was the runner I was at 20, you know, that I now at 31 with eight years off.

27
00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:55.120
And a lot of the times, I kept just looking back to that runner and trying to run those times and struggling and workouts being too hard, being too hard on myself.

28
00:04:55.150 --> 00:05:07.500
And so, you know, I, I ran races, but then it got so much race anxiety to me that I s- took a year off and just enjoyed running again with a group with no goals. Cool.

29
00:05:08.260 --> 00:05:18.960
Um, and we have the same coach and, and do similar structured training. And so, um, I'm familiar with how David, you know, doesn't care about the splits.

30
00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:40.730
And, and it's been, it's been fascinating to watch an athlete like yourself, um, really, um, really enjoy that process and, and really, um, fundamentally buy into the approach that it's, it's all about the process and not about, you know, did you nail your splits today.

31
00:05:40.760 --> 00:05:49.540
And I can't remember when it was, but I remember pretty vividly there was like a switch for you where you just stopped splitting your watch during workouts. So let's, let's talk about that.

32
00:05:49.760 --> 00:06:02.860
Um, you've run, you've run some very fast times, and you're training for, um... What's, what's the marathon goal? So I'm running New York City Marathon this fall, and, you know, I, I wanna break 230.

33
00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:12.296
I'll see how everything goes, but-Course or not, I don't- I know New York City's a little harder. I- that's my goal is to break 230 and see how far I can go under that. Cool. So, so yeah.

34
00:06:12.376 --> 00:06:20.236
So you're running fast, uh, it's faster than most, and, um, you're doing it in a way that's a little different than what you did in high school and college.

35
00:06:20.276 --> 00:06:31.256
So let's talk about how you got there, um, and, and what it's like now where you're just out there crushing it, um, versus, you know, staring at your watch. [laughs] Yeah.

36
00:06:31.476 --> 00:06:43.436
So a lot of being a tracks runner, you know, we live 400 meters at a time, you, you know your 100-meter splits, and you can calculate in your head, extrapolate and figure out exactly what pace you're running to the mile.

37
00:06:44.276 --> 00:06:46.816
And, you know, a lot of that was overwhelming at times.

38
00:06:46.976 --> 00:06:55.536
I would run workouts and compare it to other workouts and know 100 meters into my split, even if it was 2,000 meters long, if I was off pace, on pace, too fast, too slow.

39
00:06:55.896 --> 00:07:08.496
This was exhausting in my mind for someone who already has an, a racing mind, anxiety- [laughs]... filled mind, like, so you know, I had gotten to a point in my own training that I was stopped sort of improving.

40
00:07:08.706 --> 00:07:16.416
I, I wouldn't know if a workout was good or bad. You know, I would run it and be like, "Okay, this, this seems fast, but maybe I could've been faster or not."

41
00:07:16.496 --> 00:07:22.356
And so I reached out to David and 'cause I had liked a lot of what he said, and we worked together, and it took me about...

42
00:07:23.096 --> 00:07:37.956
I bought in immediately 'cause I, I was like, if I'm gonna have a coach, I better trust and listen to him, but the idea of these minute on and not splitting, like it was about, it was about eight months together until the point where I just sort of wrote him a message one day, and I was like, "I, I didn't split a workout.

43
00:07:38.076 --> 00:07:49.176
I don't even know what my splits are." And he's like, "Perfect. Do that every time." [laughs] And you know, we went from there, and it, it all fall of 2018 I, I didn't split a workout. I would, you know, if I ran...

44
00:07:49.716 --> 00:07:52.866
Only thing I would know is my miles would s- click on my watch 'cause- Right...

45
00:07:52.916 --> 00:07:59.476
I have, you know, so but I- if I would do two-minute intervals, I wouldn't know what my pace was 'cause I had to rest in there, and just run the workout.

46
00:07:59.536 --> 00:08:05.506
So start my warmup, run the workout, start my cool down, the whole workout would be, that, that would be my workout. I wouldn't know.

47
00:08:05.536 --> 00:08:13.075
And you know, I just started embracing the fact that, uh, if I'm running my effort, and if I'm running hard, then I know I'm running hard.

48
00:08:13.116 --> 00:08:23.116
I don't need some validation from something on my wrist that isn't always accurate. I, I... The validation's in my mind. If I believe that I'm running a hard effort, then I'm, I'm running fast.

49
00:08:23.156 --> 00:08:33.036
And then it came to fruition when I ran a four-minute PR in the half at Richmond when I ran 111. And you know, I, I didn't know what I was capable that day.

50
00:08:33.136 --> 00:08:39.856
I just went out and just kept falling into this, this pace range mile after mile after mile, not caring.

51
00:08:39.916 --> 00:08:50.156
And you know, I sort of put it in my head that, hey, I can do tough things, and I can run these splits without having to know what they are. Yeah. I think, I think it's fascinating.

52
00:08:50.196 --> 00:09:05.276
And then you get, you get the, you get to the point where you're racing, and the outcome, I don't wanna say it doesn't matter, but it doesn't, it doesn't determine who you are as a runner. Yeah.

53
00:09:05.336 --> 00:09:16.876
I mean, that's how I felt at Richmond. I didn't need to run anything to know how well I was doing. I, I knew I was gonna have a good day, and it, it didn't, it didn't, the, the outcome didn't matter.

54
00:09:16.936 --> 00:09:21.686
I knew when I started, it, I was w- I was already, you know, better off than I've ever been.

55
00:09:22.236 --> 00:09:32.756
And because I didn't have race anxiety, and I ran that race smiling and thanking fans and things like that, that I would've never done in the past because I would've thought I'm wasting precious energy.

56
00:09:32.876 --> 00:09:43.376
[laughs] Now how did you get there? What, what was that journey like? You know, it was... When you have a coach who literally every day puts a comment in there of, "Hey, you're doing great.

57
00:09:43.476 --> 00:09:51.216
Hey, you know, you're doing wonderful. Hey, you know, th-it doesn't matter what that split is, it doesn't matter what this is", you know what?

58
00:09:51.296 --> 00:09:56.196
Over time, it just, it just makes you feel loved and cared and makes you feel like you can do anything.

59
00:09:56.376 --> 00:10:22.476
And so, you know, as more and more of that world of David came out, of this, you know, grateful, gratitude-filled, you know, person just filling you with love of the journey and the process, the more I bought into the fact that if I just work hard, if I just, you know, if I just look at workouts as a way to gain fitness and not prove it, that then, you know, I, I will get faster and, and it doesn't matter.

60
00:10:22.586 --> 00:10:25.615
I don't need to have the watch or anything validate that.

61
00:10:25.696 --> 00:10:39.616
So the journey just kind of filled itself out as mo- workout after workout, week after week of support that I just felt loved, that it didn't matter what a time was. Yeah. I find, I find the approach fascinating.

62
00:10:39.756 --> 00:10:46.116
So I've, I've considered myself a runner now for [clears throat] maybe seven years, um, in my entire life.

63
00:10:46.496 --> 00:10:59.036
And for the first five years, six years as a runner, I cared way too much about splits and paces, and, you know, if I was running an easy, easy run at, uh, 7:30, I was going too slow.

64
00:10:59.716 --> 00:11:12.516
Um, and I kept trying to BQ, and I kept coming up short. I would either, you know, I would keep pace for 13 miles, or I'd keep pace for 18 miles or 19 miles, and then I'd hit a wall.

65
00:11:12.596 --> 00:11:29.756
And I was so hard on myself, you know, for running a 3:20 or a 3:27 or a 4:01, you know, when I thought I was in 3:05 shape. Um, and then after maybe a year and a half of working with David,

66
00:11:30.896 --> 00:11:42.916
yeah, I guess that, yeah, roughly, almost a year, um, I lined up at the start line of Providence with this shit-eating grin on my face. [laughs] It was raining, it was 50 degrees, and I was just like, "Let me go."

67
00:11:42.996 --> 00:11:55.836
Like, "Let me at this course. I'm... It's a celebration." And I started that race, I was running 6:40s, and I couldn't stop smiling. And it felt like I was flying, and it was totally effortless.

68
00:11:56.396 --> 00:11:59.476
Now that effortless 6:40 lasted about five miles.

69
00:11:59.596 --> 00:12:14.948
[laughs] And, and I ended up running the, the sub-three that, that I was, um-That I had been chasing for so long and it- I almost didn't even care that it was sub-3.

70
00:12:15.188 --> 00:12:38.788
I cared that like I put in the work, and I showed up to the start line happy and like l- ready to race versus like ready for a test, and I think when you can shift away from seeing a race as a test and seeing a race more as like this is something we get to do, I think that's- that's powerful, um, and it's hard to do.

71
00:12:40.188 --> 00:12:48.028
It is, and- and I- I like to tell people and athletes I coach, like, training is the test, racing is the celebration, so, you know, let's celebrate. Let's- let's...

72
00:12:48.348 --> 00:13:00.308
Th- we sign up for these things for fun, and the- you'll do much harder work training week after week, running a har- a hard workout after an- a, you know, miles the day before, and cumulative fatigue.

73
00:13:00.408 --> 00:13:11.808
But like, you know, when you get to the race day, it's just celebrating all of those gains, all of that fitness and having the time that you want to, which is excitement and fun and joy because that's ultimately why you signed up.

74
00:13:11.868 --> 00:13:23.388
It's n- we sign up to chase goals, but we also sign up to have fun and enjoy it and have a great time, and why not do both? [laughs] Definitely. So you're a coach. How did that evolve? Yeah.

75
00:13:23.468 --> 00:13:39.048
So I, um, I started- I've always wanted to be a coach, but my job has never allowed sort of me the luxury of being a high school coach, you know, uh, where the hours I worked didn't fit, and, you know, run coaching online started becoming more of a thing that people were doing.

76
00:13:39.068 --> 00:13:51.008
And around 2018, I reached out to a friend and just started working with her just, you know, for free, but just doing it enjoyable to help her try and chase her goals and for me to see if how much I enjoyed this.

77
00:13:51.078 --> 00:13:54.308
And, you know, we started a- around the end of 2018.

78
00:13:54.338 --> 00:14:05.388
Another one of my friends who I just ended up going to trials with to just cheer, we started coaching- I started coaching her in December after CIM in 2018, and then I sort of just started saying, "Hey, I, I like this.

79
00:14:05.868 --> 00:14:11.948
I'll reach out." You know, I didn't do much marketing. Um, I, I wrote a post on this, but I'm, I'm...

80
00:14:11.988 --> 00:14:19.368
It's hard to be that, you know, feel like you're bragging about yourself sometimes, so like I'm the worst promoter or marketer of myself. Yeah.

81
00:14:19.408 --> 00:14:24.448
I just, I just, I feel like if people like me, they'll say stuff, and, you know, I'm just doing a good job.

82
00:14:24.648 --> 00:14:47.818
So I'm getting better with that, but I didn't market myself much in the beginning, and I had a couple athletes just local, and then I reached out to Mary Johnson from Live Run Perform about the summer of 2018 and asked if she would bring on a- another coach, and we talked, and, you know, she has the same coach as both of us, too, so when we talked about training philosophies and how we approach it, we were on the same page obviously 'cause, you know- [laughs]...

83
00:14:47.828 --> 00:14:48.968
disciples of David.

84
00:14:49.438 --> 00:14:59.288
[laughs] And, um, so, you know, I started coaching with her and- and, you know, that helps because she has a business, and she's very good at marketing and- and that just sort of helps bring athletes in.

85
00:14:59.308 --> 00:15:14.488
And it honestly, you know, with how my 2019 went, it's been one of the most enjoyable things because when my running wasn't going well, it was easy as me, a huge empathetic person, to just invest in my athletes and just be excited for them every day, every race, every workout.

86
00:15:14.568 --> 00:15:29.768
I'd get amped up and excited, and, you know, I, my- I was hurt, I was- things weren't going right, and I was just like, "This, this is enjoyable, and this is so much fun, and this is, this is what it's all about, so I can have my own journey, and I can invest in everyone else's," and I've loved it ever since.

87
00:15:30.688 --> 00:15:36.388
Yeah. I think it's so cool when, when you can f- put the focus on somebody else maybe when things aren't going so well.

88
00:15:37.068 --> 00:15:59.848
Um, that was the story of my January and February [laughs] where it was, um, it was a nice distraction to have another race to focus on with the Olympic trials, um, and it's so cool when you can, when you can be there for other people and- and have it as, I don't wanna say a distraction, but like something to, like, that's your, like, guiding light or your, your focus.

89
00:15:59.888 --> 00:16:00.018
Yeah.

90
00:16:00.028 --> 00:16:24.568
It keeps me excited about running, and like I said, it's so social to me that, like you said, a reason, a lot of reason I reach out and post on people's post and get invested in their running, whether I coach them or not, is just because it- it's fun to me and because I know what it feels like to have someone post on your post, "Hey, great job" or, uh, you know, someone who read your post or someone who sees what you're doing or someone who offers you some, you know, compassion or sympathy when you're struggling, like,

91
00:16:25.568 --> 00:16:30.068
it feels amazing. So, uh, to me, I always wanna tell people, "Hey, you're doing amazing."

92
00:16:30.108 --> 00:16:38.088
I wanna say the nice things that you don't know if people hear ever because we all assume everyone, you know, why would you say something nice to someone? They hear it all the time.

93
00:16:38.128 --> 00:16:49.348
Instead, the only confrontations we have with people are when it's negative, so I always like to bring the positives because I don't think enough is said nicely to people or encouraging to people. Definitely.

94
00:16:49.928 --> 00:17:03.048
Um, let's talk about something you briefly mentioned, um, mental health. Uh, we're both a, a fan of talking about it, to say the least. Uh, for you, where did that come from? Yeah, so I sh- it's very funny.

95
00:17:03.228 --> 00:17:12.508
I, I'm- my wife is a physical, a mental health therapist, and, you know, a lot of her li- my life she would sort of say, "Hey, you know, you should see a therapist. You sh-" and I was always like, "Eh, eh, whatever."

96
00:17:12.628 --> 00:17:28.208
Like, and, you know, so I kept going on my life, and I kept having like i- things that were, I was stuck on, things in my life that I was stuck on, but I would always just, you know, bury, bury, what we do, bury it deep inside, like not worry about it, try not to- Push it under the rug.

97
00:17:28.278 --> 00:17:37.378
Yeah Yeah, and, you know, growing up when I did in- in the 2000s as a male, like, you weren't, you were told to be tough. You weren't told to be sensitive. You weren't told to have feelings.

98
00:17:37.408 --> 00:17:50.848
They were, i- in your bo- in your male group friends, like, they weren't acknowledged, and a lot of that, like, I think stuck me, and I, you know, as I, I was a highly sensitive person with huge empathy from the start, and, you know, when I finally,

99
00:17:52.208 --> 00:18:03.540
I, I finally hit a really bad spot in 2016 where my anxiety was just crippling, and I finally-Took the ther-- You know, I finally went through and, and got a therapist and sat down with her.

100
00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:13.320
And as I talked through everything, uh, every session was like this epiphany to me, because I would talk through things and she would just listen, and she'd offer some words of wisdom.

101
00:18:13.340 --> 00:18:22.000
And, you know, then I'd go home, and I'd search on the internet, and I'd connect some dots, and I'd come back next week and be like, "Hey, I think I'm this plus this, and I've seen this, and this is from my history."

102
00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:32.420
And she'd be like, "Oh, well, let's talk about that." And each week it was like learning more about myself, and as I kept going through and learning more, like, I kept embracing the person who I was. It's like

103
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:46.380
who I've always been, I was maybe scared to be that sensitive person who, you know, has feelings and cares about them and wants to share them and wants to be vulnerable and wants to just be who he is. That's awesome.

104
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:57.620
Um, what advice do you have for someone who may be, you know, the 2016 version of Nick versus the 2020 version? Yeah. I, I guess I would just say there--

105
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:05.040
The more, the more you can learn about yourself, the better, and we all have a huge bias on ourself.

106
00:19:05.300 --> 00:19:16.740
We all are super hard on ourselves, and I think too often we, we, we do things we're not proud of, and we get upset at ourselves, and we beat ourselves down, and then it just spirals.

107
00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:29.900
And ha- going to someone to talk to really helps you have someone in your life who's not also biased, you know, not your significant other, not your best friends, who you may tell you you're doing great, but you're like, "Well, they're just my friend."

108
00:19:29.970 --> 00:19:39.280
Yeah. Right. And you're not gonna go to your enemy and ask them ex- We don't do that. [laughs] So going to like, you know- We should We probably should more, but- Tell me everything wrong about me.

109
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:54.380
[laughs] But having this non-biased person in your life who, you know, isn't telling you anything other than the things you need to hear and, and think about and learn, like I learned more about myself in, in three years of therapy than I learned in thirty-six years of life.

110
00:19:54.420 --> 00:20:02.030
And it's because I was willing to listen to someone who didn't have some bias to my life, and I was willing to, you know, be ready for it.

111
00:20:02.140 --> 00:20:10.350
I think that's the other thing is like, you have to want to change, you have to want to learn more. You can't force it. If you go there and you're like, "I'm not gonna listen to anything. I'm fine." Right.

112
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:18.380
You're probably not gonna get a lot out of it. Just like with run coaching or the process, if you don't wanna buy into the process, you, you might not really do great with the process.

113
00:20:18.449 --> 00:20:28.620
So I think it's just, you know, being willing to go for it and also just acknowledging that, you know, there's something you can learn about yourself that you don't know. Cool.

114
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:40.520
How has your running changed since going to therapy? You know, it's very interesting. So I have run faster since I've gone to therapy, and I don't know if it's... It's probably all correlated.

115
00:20:40.540 --> 00:20:51.240
It's David, it's therapists, it's, it's just being more comfortable in my own skin. But like, uh, if nothing else, it's, it's being less hard on myself is, is one of the key things.

116
00:20:51.300 --> 00:21:02.580
And that is how, as you ment- asked earlier, how I sometimes cannot split workouts or just go through these, these periods of running and be content is because I'm not hard on myself.

117
00:21:02.820 --> 00:21:06.509
I know if I tried my best every day, that's all I can ever do, and there's nothing more.

118
00:21:06.540 --> 00:21:14.020
And sometimes I come up short in my life, and that's perfectly fine, and sometimes I do things that I regret, and we're all gonna do that.

119
00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:21.360
And, but that's perfectly human, 'cause we're all perfectly imperfect, and, and that's wonderful. That makes us human beings.

120
00:21:21.540 --> 00:21:42.780
And I think learning more of not trying to hold myself to these incredibly high standards in life has helped me in running because, uh, you know, as running is this numbers comparison game, you could get stuck comparing yourself to everyone and needing to feel like you have to run 100 miles a week, and every mile has to be at a sub-six pace.

121
00:21:42.840 --> 00:21:55.400
And, you know, you, you have to never t- s- only sleep five hours a night 'cause you're doing core work all day and lifting, and you don't ne- and, you know, you can do all that stuff, but you can also do what your life allows and be perfectly fine, too.

122
00:21:56.360 --> 00:22:05.280
Cool. Um, my, uh, chiropractor made a comment about my own running maybe last fall.

123
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:17.900
And he knew he-- like we talk about therapy all the time, um, and he's like, "You're-- like you-- people don't normally have gains like this." And David has said the same thing. Megan has said the same thing.

124
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:27.820
And what he got to, where he got to with it was like running for me is just running. It's not, you know, it's not where I'm going to seek isolation.

125
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:36.880
It's not where I'm going to work out, you know, what I did in the day or did in the day prior. It's, it's pure, and I'm, I'm just out there enjoying it.

126
00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:53.720
And I think that therapy allows us to work through the, maybe the roadblocks that, um, we might focus on when we have that alone time, and then you can just rip it [laughs] when it's, when it's time to run, um, because you're-- there's nothing holding you back.

127
00:22:54.980 --> 00:22:56.220
Yeah, that's a really good point, I think.

128
00:22:56.320 --> 00:23:07.680
I think a lot of my running pre-therapy was spent on things in my life, things-- If I said something to someone and I'm an- overanalyzing it in my head, I'd spend 40 minutes on my run doing that.

129
00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:16.580
You know, if I'm in a race and I see someone who I said something wrong to once in my life, all of a sudden I'm spiraling on that, not focusing on the race. So that's a really good point.

130
00:23:16.620 --> 00:23:26.840
I think, you know, it helps us focus more on our task or just the running of enjoying it and not- Yeah... spending the whole run spiraling. For sure. What's your favorite thing about running?

131
00:23:28.660 --> 00:23:37.940
Um, you know, uh, like I said before, social. So I, I think I love just sharing a run with a friend, and I said this to-- I, I did a run with Carly Gill recently.

132
00:23:38.020 --> 00:23:46.400
I did a run with Andy Casarelli recently, and what I said to both of them was like, "Hey, these are people I've known from online but never met."

133
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:57.000
And we went out and shared 90-plus minute runs together, and we talked for the entire time, and it's like we've known each other our entire lives. And like- Yeah... what other sport, what other hobby does that exist in?

134
00:23:57.100 --> 00:24:04.770
It doesn't. Like it's, this is-- People are always shocked at work when I say, "Hey, what'd you do this weekend?" "Oh, I went for a two-hour run with my friends and we caught up." Like, like what?

135
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:24.348
Like, this is sometimes the only time you get with a lot of your friends when they're running friends, and to me that, you know, to be able to still rip it sometimes with my friends or if I have to do some workout and they're not, I still can share some of that run and catch up and have a great time, and that's the enjoyable part of this whole thing for me.Yeah, I love that.

136
00:24:24.448 --> 00:24:30.298
Um, I get to travel a lot for work and run with some really interesting people and, and, like, that's my favorite part of the whole thing.

137
00:24:30.428 --> 00:24:43.168
Just, like, being able to experience new places with new people or with people that you know really well, but maybe you've never met. Um, and just sh- it's, it's such a,

138
00:24:44.828 --> 00:24:57.698
it's such a unifying act, such a unifying activity. And it, um, [laughs] I love how Andy described the run that you guys did together. She was like, "That was the most casual 6:30 pace I've ever [laughs] run."

139
00:24:59.288 --> 00:25:14.508
[laughs] She said you guys had a blast, so that's funny. Another, uh, podcast guest, Andy Cazarelli. Um, what is, what is next for you? Uh, we have some interesting times ahead. How are you, how are you managing that?

140
00:25:16.048 --> 00:25:24.388
You know, the best I can every day, day by day. Um, in, you know, I'm working from home and that's new for me.

141
00:25:24.508 --> 00:25:34.588
You know, i- as I mentioned, my anxiety, it, it is a very difficult thing in an uncontrollable, um, unknown world. It, it spirals really bad.

142
00:25:34.648 --> 00:25:41.668
So for me, running is, is helping me, you know, remember where I am and forget the world around me.

143
00:25:41.768 --> 00:25:51.528
Um, you know, just, so for me, it's just kind of helping athletes I coach, helping friends who are struggling, helping family members or anyone who's just having a tough time.

144
00:25:52.108 --> 00:26:00.268
For me, helping people helps me forget what's going on. E- even if I'm talking about it, if I'm helping someone else, it feels like it's less anxiety to me. Yeah.

145
00:26:00.508 --> 00:26:09.398
Um, so, you know, I've reached out to friends, I've been supportive. I've, you know, done strange things. We did a virtual happy hour last night, which was super fun. Yeah.

146
00:26:09.468 --> 00:26:22.048
Um, and, you know, just taking stock of what I have in my life and, and that I'm healthy and I am able to run, and, you know, I have a job, and going from there. And so for next for me running-wise, I don't know.

147
00:26:22.088 --> 00:26:36.428
I don't know if I'll have any races for a while, so I have none, but I have New York City Marathon in the fall, and that's what I'll keep moving towards. Cool. Um, what big, scary goals do you have for yourself?

148
00:26:38.088 --> 00:26:50.468
Um, you know, scary goals in my life are sort of everything. I, I, you know, being a coach was a big, scary goal for me, and, and I still love it, and I still want to be better at it and learn more.

149
00:26:50.508 --> 00:27:01.508
And every day, I'm trying to learn from some of my, you know, favorite coaches in the business who've been doing it forever. And so to be an amazing, supportive coach who can...

150
00:27:02.088 --> 00:27:15.088
I'm very supportive, but learning more about the other side and having both, I think, would be amazing. 'Cause I know it's something I'm capable of. For running, you know, my goal in 2019 was to try and chase an OTQ.

151
00:27:15.768 --> 00:27:29.868
I never got to run a marathon. I spent 85% of the year hurt for weird, different things. And, you know, so big, scary goals for me are just taking it year by year. I think this year I, I just wanna race a marathon.

152
00:27:29.928 --> 00:27:40.728
It's been two years. I wanna get under 230. And every year, I like to look at things in a bigger picture. So for me, I, I have 40 years of goals ahead of me.

153
00:27:40.768 --> 00:27:55.308
I'll be 41 in 2024, and I, I'd like to still chase that, but if my life takes me to a different path, I, I don't mind. I don't- I love the troll, uh, the trail world. I've run a couple 50Ks. I've run JFK 50 Miler.

154
00:27:55.388 --> 00:28:00.868
I wouldn't necessarily mind going back to that life and trying that. And, you know, just keep advancing in my career.

155
00:28:00.898 --> 00:28:13.408
And, and then, you know, a big, scary goal for me is to get my kids more involved in running, and if they want to, or just being really involved in their lives too while I juggle my goals, you know? Cool.

156
00:28:14.048 --> 00:28:24.688
So one of the communities you're also a part of is, uh, with Rabbit, and I know they had a, a pretty large, um, delegation down in, in Atlanta. What's, what's that team like? Is that similar?

157
00:28:24.928 --> 00:28:37.348
Is that, being on that team similar to what you experienced in college? Is it totally different? Um, what's, what's the vibe there? Yeah, it's, in 2018 I joined, and, uh, I was lucky enough to be put on the elite team.

158
00:28:37.377 --> 00:28:45.708
And, and one of my favorite things about it is it felt like I, I had lost sort of this team community thing when, after D1 college.

159
00:28:45.748 --> 00:28:56.648
And, you know, I had a running community here of, of fast runners, but the nice thing about Rabbit was we were all scattered, but we're all super incredibly supportive of each other through Instagram.

160
00:28:56.658 --> 00:29:02.148
I mean, we haven't even met each other, a lot of us. We're just, you know, encouraging each other through DMs, through posts.

161
00:29:02.228 --> 00:29:09.908
And, you know, for the last two years, the people I've met through Rabbit have become some of my friends that I, I would've never even known otherwise.

162
00:29:09.968 --> 00:29:19.808
And, you know, you've met Jill and Monica, and they're one of the b- most wonderful, supportive, community-oriented people and have created something truly amazing.

163
00:29:19.848 --> 00:29:32.088
And, and I love the, what they do, and it's fun to stand behind that product and those, that, you know, both of them and, and help to promote their brand, but also to have a team to feel like I'm racing with.

164
00:29:32.148 --> 00:29:40.988
And when I put on my Rabbit singlet and I show up to a race with other Rabbits, it's, it's very fun to just, you know, share those moments together. Cool.

165
00:29:41.528 --> 00:29:54.568
Um, what are some things you know now about running that you wish you knew when, when you got started? [laughs] Um, maybe, maybe the second go around. Yeah. Um, you know, I think run your easy days easy.

166
00:29:54.908 --> 00:30:04.408
That was a, a tough one. I found my college running log a few years ago, and it had a week where I basically ran every mile under six minutes.

167
00:30:04.528 --> 00:30:12.808
[laughs] Like, and I would, and we were doing three track workouts a week at the time. Wow. So it'd be, like, hard track workout. Next day it'd be, like, seven miles at 5:35 pace. Wow. And I'd be like, "It felt hard."

168
00:30:13.218 --> 00:30:21.088
[laughs] And then it, and it'd be like... And I was just reading my comments and, like, and there was a race on that, like, Sunday- Felt hard... and I was like, felt dead for my race. And I was like, "You, you idiot.

169
00:30:21.188 --> 00:30:30.876
Like, you were running so fast- [laughs]... every day, you never had a chance to recover.Um, no wonder. And, you know, then reading it and knowing how hard I was on myself, like, every day.

170
00:30:30.956 --> 00:30:38.076
I, I remember I used to always just tell myself, "Nick, you have to be tougher." And, and, you know, this is this male mentality that I grew up with. I always had to be tougher.

171
00:30:38.136 --> 00:30:46.396
It was never like, "Hey, Nick, you were running too hard and you weren't recovered. Hey, Nick, you know, you just gave your best effort today." It was always, "You just have to be tougher late in the race.

172
00:30:46.476 --> 00:30:55.396
You keep collapsing at, you know- [laughs]... 3K of a 5K." It's kind of in life. Yeah. [laughs] It was like, if I was just tougher I would've, I would've been able to finish it and run that PR.

173
00:30:55.496 --> 00:31:05.116
And, you know, I hated that mindset, and as I got older I don't... Sure, toughness matters. I, I feel like, uh, and I tell a lot of people, I think runners are tough. We're all tough.

174
00:31:05.776 --> 00:31:14.316
You know, most of the times when we struggle at a race, it, it isn't always that toughness. It's, you know, maybe we were overworked. Maybe we didn't have the right fuel in that race.

175
00:31:14.356 --> 00:31:20.236
Maybe we had ton- tons of anxiety in our life the day before. You know, sometimes it's toughness.

176
00:31:20.296 --> 00:31:29.076
But I think I always went to toughness, so I'd lo- you know, as I got older I, I removed that from my mind, just say, like, I don't always have to be tougher. I have to be smarter.

177
00:31:30.016 --> 00:31:36.176
Um, you know, so those things and then just, you know, this idea of, you know, I don't have to prove my fitness in workouts.

178
00:31:36.936 --> 00:31:42.396
I felt like I always would think if I couldn't run a certain split in a workout, how was I gonna do it on race day?

179
00:31:42.456 --> 00:31:52.376
If I couldn't, you know, split five-minute miles on race day, I could never run, you know, what I wanted in the 5K. And, you know, as I got older, I learned that I don't need to prove anything in a workout.

180
00:31:52.536 --> 00:32:04.116
I just need to gain fitness and run hard and do my best efforts. And all those things have helped me grow so much at this age that I wish I knew when I was younger. Awesome. I think that's a good place to wrap.

181
00:32:04.616 --> 00:32:18.676
Um, where can we, ah, where can we find you on social media? Yeah. So I'm, ah, @nklastava, K-L-A-S-T-A-V-A, on Instagram, Twitter, and, um, yeah [laughs] I think those are the two I use. Very cool.

182
00:32:19.076 --> 00:32:31.926
Well, ah, hopefully we'll see you in New York, and, ah, thanks so much for joining in today. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. For sure. Thanks again to SynchroKnit for sponsoring this week's podcast.

183
00:32:32.196 --> 00:32:41.036
SynchroKnit uses breakthrough technology, creating a truly fitted sock that doesn't slip in your shoe and enhances the performance of a running shoe. They're tight on the arch and heel, which makes it feel snug.

184
00:32:41.496 --> 00:32:59.436
As a reminder, you can use the code LONGRUN25 to receive 25% off your first order at synchroknit.com. That's S-Y-N-C-H-R-O-K-N-I-T.com. I'll be wearing them this spring, and you should too. That's it for today's episode.

185
00:32:59.856 --> 00:33:06.356
Like many long runs, it's sad when it has to end. I hope you join in next week on For the Long Run, and in the meantime, happy trails.

186
00:33:07.016 --> 00:33:12.065
If you've enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it so that others can find it and enjoy it too