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[upbeat music] Welcome to For The Long Run, the podcast exploring the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated.

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I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt. Through personal and professional connections in the running world, I have the privilege of getting to know some amazing athletes.

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I've always been fascinated by the psychological aspect of running, and this podcast is aimed at exploring this and much more. I hope you enjoy.

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This episode is brought to you by the Bolder Boulder, America's all-time best 10K.

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The Bolder Boulder, which normally takes place on Memorial Day each year, is keeping tradition alive by hosting their virtual Memorial Day 10K.

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Registration is free with the option to purchase limited edition gear, with a portion of the proceeds going to support Colorado's COVID-19 Relief Fund. Register for free and get more details at bolderboulder.com.

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Welcome back. I have Scott Fauble joining me today. Scott, thanks for, uh, thanks for joining in. Thank you so much for having me, John. Ready to do this. Oh, of course. So first question, uh, who is Scott? Who is Scott?

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Um, [laughs] I don't know, man. I'm just a guy, just a guy who likes running, I guess. [laughs] Awesome. And you do quite a lot of that.

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Um, so as we were talking about before we started, the goal of this podcast is exploring the why, uh, digging into chatting with, uh, digging into, into the sort of inner workings of what keeps pro athletes and elite athletes, um, successful and, and motivated.

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So I wanna know, why, why did you go for your fir- why did you go for your first run? Um, you know what? I guess I'm not sure. Uh, I started running, I guess mostly to, um, just as part of a youth track team.

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I think my mom kinda wanted me to get out of the house a little bit over the summer, and so she took me to, took me to youth track practice, and I don't know, I was pretty good at it right off the bat.

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So it was probably something to do with, um, wanting to be good at something. Again, like wanting to be really good at it. So fast-forward, uh, couple of years, you're first American at Boston. What has, what has

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allowed you to continue progressing, um, over that time? You know, a whole lot of miles, but, but what has it been that's kept you, kept you engaged with the sport? Um, that's a good question.

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Uh, th- that answer has definitely changed. You know, I think if you would've asked me in high school, that answer would've been being good. It would've been winning. Mm-hmm.

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Um, in college, probably a lot of that too, winning, but also the camaraderie of being on a team. And, um, now we've--

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I s- you know, there's still the competitive part of me that wants, the ego part of me that wants to be really good and wants to win things. Mm-hmm. Um, and there's a part of me that is like, "Well, this is my job.

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This is-- It's-- I have to be professional. I have to take care of the things I have to take care of. I have to represent my sponsors and my team and my, uh, coach well, and my agent well." And, um,

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but I don't necessarily know. I, I would guess that there's something under that, and maybe we'll kind of be able to drill down at that during this interview. But I don't necessarily know if I can,

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uh, put a finger on what that answer [laughs] is right off the bat right, right now. Um- Yeah... it's probably, there's probably some undercurrent that is, has been there the whole, whole time, though.

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One thing that I've found interesting with, with how you approach it, you wrote an article or a blog post a while back,

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basically with the summary of, if you don't let fail- failure define you, success shouldn't define you either, and I think it fits well into this conversation.

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Also, the, the idea that it's, it's just running at the end of the day, right? Mm-hmm. And, and we do it for fun, we do it for a job, we do it for whatever the motivation is. But I wanna know, like, where did that...

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Was that, was that always your approach to it, or, or, um, is it something that you learned along the way that, like, the ups and downs are just part of it? Um, no. I think that's--

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the ups and downs being part of it is something I've, I've learned since becoming a professional. And I think, um, at other parts of my career, I could-- if I ran my best race, I would be pretty successful. You know?

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Mm-hmm. In college, I meant top 10 or top 15 even at nationals. And, uh, you know, in high school and, um, youth track, like, if I ran pretty well, I would win. Like, that was just part of it.

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Uh, and then you get to be a professional, and there are a lot of races where you run really well and kinda get your doors blown off. Um, for me at least, like, I'm not, uh, at a point in my career where

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I can say, like, "If I run really well, I will win." Um, at least not right now.

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You know, I can-- If I pick my spots well, and if I run well, and if I'm really, really fit, I think I can compete in a lot of different situations.

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But, um, I think kind of making peace with the fact that, like, I'm not the best in the world, I'm not the best at this, and there are gonna be struggles, um, and kind of figuring out a way to deal with that

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was sort of what motivated that. Um, and then also, I don't know, I was probably looking at Instagram and- [laughs]... saw somebody's bio that was like, had their PRs listed, and I was like, "Oh, that's kinda dumb."

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And then I- [laughs]... I sorta let that thought, let that thought spiral a little bit. Yeah. I, I find the whole approach that you guys take at Northern Arizona Elite to be fascinating.

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Um-Uh, so Ben was the first guest I had on this podcast, and in that conversation we talked about how, um, he had a group of athletes racing New York, and ahead of New York, and feel free to correct me [laughs] if, if any of this is wrong, 'cause you were probably in that conversation.

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But, um, he was saying that, that you guys weren't talking about times. You were talking about execution, and if, if you execute your best on race day, that's success.

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It's not 209, 211, 259, 359, whatever the time is. It's, it's did you show up and, and perform optimally in the th- in the way that you can control? Yeah.

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I mean, that's certainly, uh, our philosophy, and we kind of believe that if we do compete well, and if we do focus on competing, the times will come. Mm-hmm. Maybe not every single time.

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There are certain situations where the race is just not gonna be fast. Um, like Boston 2018 comes to mind. Um- Mm-hmm... but by and large, like if you look at

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people's best times over the course of their career, they're almost always a product of competing. They're very rarely time-focused. Like, if you look at, uh,

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like let's say Ryan Hall for example, like his best times were the times when he just let himself go and he just focused on, on racing.

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You know, the 204 at Boston, he was just like, "I'm gonna stay up front, and I don't care if these guys are gonna run 435s, 440s for 26 miles." Right. "Like, I'm just gonna do what I can." Um,

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and I think the more you kind of follow the sport, the more you see that, uh,

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that the best way to have success both in a race and on the, like, top 10 lists and on your PR-- when you look at your PRs, that's-- it's from competing. Um,

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and it's also, I think, the most gratifying sort of approach to take, is to focus on,

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on competing and doing what you can do, um, as opposed to constantly being, uh, worried about your PR, being worried about seconds on the clock, being worried about where you stack up, um, you know, on a leaderboard, so.

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I have two follow-up question. I'll start with the one that's probably taboo.

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Do you think that [laughs] if you put Kipchoge in, in-- at the London Marathon this year in a race setting that, you know, he could have broken two?

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In, in, in the ra- in the race setting and, and the ability to compete with, with people around him versus, um, just competing with himself? Um- Now, I say that sort of half as a joke, but...

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[laughs] I mean, it's, it's tough because... Yeah, I think he would run faster if it, if he had someone to compete with. I think that's clearly the answer. It just-- He's at a place where, um,

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there aren't a ton of people to compete with for a number of reasons. Uh, [laughs] it's hard to get-- You know, he's one of the two fastest marathoners of all time.

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Um, him and Bikila are basically right there and two seconds apart, you know, if, in terms of, uh, record legal, um, races. So, uh, you know, I don't know. I mean, whether or not he can

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run 159 on a, on a record legal course in a record legal situation, I have no idea. Um- Yeah... so yeah.

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So the other piece that you were mentioning is you talk about execution and, and the, the results and the times will come.

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Um, I, I wasn't in a place where I believed that until it actually happened, and it was a fascinating experience to be standing on the start line so disassociated with the time on the clock, but the time on the clock was part of the goal.

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So I, I'd spent four years trying to break three in the marathon, and I, in that process, I, [laughs] I, I didn't even break four in one of those races. And it, it took,

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it took getting onto that start line feeling confident and feeling like I've done everything possible

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in the build-up, and I think I even, you know, tagged you in a couple of the, the workouts that, like, put, put in the w- the, put in those bricks that were required to get there, and it was such a freeing feeling.

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And, and, you know, I, I didn't care if it was a two, three, or a four that showed up on the, on the finishing clock, and fortunately ended up being a two.

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But my question from that is what's, what is your advice to other runners, specifically probably amateurs, that are really caught up on the times? And I know I was in a place where, uh, the times were everything,

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and it wasn't-- I got to a pr- probably a pretty unhealthy place with that.

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Um, so I wanna know, what do you-- what would your advice be for somebody who's maybe in that, um, in that place where they're so hyper-focused on PRing or, or breaking three or breaking four, breaking five, whatever it might be?

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Um, I guess I would say that probably the most-- The advice that I would give somebody is like, is like it's really not that important, you know, at the end of the day. Uh, even for me,

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what the time on the clock says or what the place on the results say. Like, the most important things to me are, you know, the people in my life, uh, and the relationships I have.

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And, um, I remember we were doing like a Q&A at a running store, and someone asked a very similar question, and he was there with his, I don't know, wife or a lady friend.

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And, um, I, like, kind of redirected the question to her and I said, "Are you still gonna love this guy if he doesn't PR?" [laughs] And she was like, "Yes, of course." And I was like, "Okay."

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[laughs] "Well, in that case- [laughs] "... then you just go out there, man, like try your hardest, have fun, and whatever the-- like, no matter what happens-Uh,

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the most important thing in your life is still gonna be there, or, like, a very important thing in your life is still gonna be there. Like, it's not that big of a deal.

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Um, and if you train as hard as you can and you prepare as well as you can and then try as hard as you can in the race, like, you can't really, like, be mad at that. The result has to be whatever it is.

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Um, and you just need to be at peace with that and-- at least in that moment. And that's not to say that you can't take another crack at it or try to push the limits or whatever, but, um, on a day, like,

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if you did everything you could, that's what you could do. Definitely.

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Yeah, I think-- I think that, um-- I think that that's a piece that, that we all need to hear more often, and especially coming from someone whose job it is to perform. Um, even someone like Scott is saying that it's,

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you know, just go out and execute, and if you do well, great. If you don't, it's not the last race. Yeah. Hopefully. [laughs] So that leads us into, um-- that leads us into where we're at today maybe.

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What's- what's your perspective or what's-- where's your head at with, um, the uncertainty that we have around us? Um, you know, that's a good question. Like,

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I'm, I'm not an epidemiologist, so I'm not gonna sit here and try to predict whether or not Boston will happen or Chicago or New York. Like, um, that's way above my pay grade. But, uh,

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for us at the moment, we're just kind of looking at ways to still compete, and whether that's,

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um, you know, chasing a Strava segment that we, you know, that we've laid out, or whether that's just running a time trial or whatever it is. Like,

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opportunities to compete and opportunities to test yourself don't have to be between a start and a finish line. You can just go out on a road and, and let it rip. Um, even if it's a completely arbitrary distance.

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Like, some of the most fun races I've ever done, even, like, the races that, um, have been, like, official races when distance was not a factor or time was not a factor, those are some of the best ones.

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You know, cross-country, times don't mean anything. I love cross-country. Mm-hmm. Manchester Road Race, like, that race is like four point seven four four miles. [laughs] That's not a distance.

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Nobody knows what that means. Right. [laughs] Um, it was one of the, the coolest races I've ever done.

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Uh, you know, we're talking about talking on the, uh, the Boulder Boulder, you know, is coming up and, like, that race is a 10K that's run in the middle of the day at altitude on a really hilly course with a lot of turns.

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Like, time does not matter. [laughs] It doesn't matter. Right. The only thing that matters is trying as hard as you can and, like, really trying to rip. Um, and so

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that's really what makes it the most fun, is when the clock isn't a factor, when it's not the typical, like, get on a track and time trial situation. Um, so yeah.

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Yeah, I think it's a permission to, like, have some more fun with it too. I, I had my coach on the podcast, uh, a couple weeks ago and, and he said, "One of the things that I'm stressing to all of the athletes is, like,

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you can stop your run and, like, smell the roses, and, you know, take a photo from the top of the mountain. And, um, and PS, you can do this at any time anyways." Yeah. [laughs] Um, [laughs] was what he would say.

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It's like it ju- just doesn't matter. Um, but it was-- Yeah, it's, it's funny you mention, um-- It's funny you re- mentioned it that way.

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It's like this is, this is the time to, to reconnect with why you run, and there's been a fascinating dialogue that's been going on on Twitter and s- through some other podcasts where people are really starting to ev- reevaluate, like, what, what is their motivation for getting out and, and, and doing it.

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And, you know, your neighbor in Flagstaff, Sarah Hall, was, was tweeting about how, you know, this is a great time for, for people who are intrinsically motivated to, um, potentially shine and, and develop and, and improve, um, which is super cool.

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So, uh, again, Boulder Boulder, um, [laughs] it's this weekend. I was supposed to be flying out there right about now actually. Um, so we're-- we'll both be sadly missing that one. Yeah.

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But it's super cool what, what they're doing with, with the community aspect of a virtual race and then potentially a race in September. Um, so why, why'd you choose that one?

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There are, you know, a handful of, um, virtual races out there. Uh, so I guess I'm curious, why, why Boulder Boulder? Well, I mean, I grew up 30 minutes south of Boulder.

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Um, grew up racing the Boulder Boulder, you know, bunch of years. So that hometown feel is really special to me. It was really- Mm-hmm... special to race it three times as a pro. Um, so it's, you know,

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it's kind of a, a no-brainer to wanna be associated with it in some way. And I don't know if Ben has a 10K, uh, tempo or whatever on the schedule, but, um- [laughs]...

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you know, I'll figure out a way to get six mi- 6.2 miles in and, uh, log it, even if it's-- even if it's slow, so. Cool. Do you think the team will be participating in other virtual races?

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What's, what's the sort of the take on, um, you know, staying connected to the racing community? Yeah, we're gonna do some stuff hopefully that is a little bit unorthodox for us.

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Um, you know, there's a couple Strava records in town that are, are pretty prestigious. Um- Mm-hmm...

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up with-- There's like two mountains or one, one, uh, mountain sort of climb that would be really cool to get, and we're gonna go-- probably try to go after that. And then, uh, there's, like, the A1 loop- Mm-hmm...

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which is, you know, a kind of epic long run spot that has, uh-Has sort of gotten notoriety. It's like 21 miles, and, um, pretty popular place to do a long run. It's pretty hard.

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And, uh, the, the Strava record's, like, very impressive at this point. So, uh, we might take a shot at that as well. Um, so yeah, we're, I mean, we're looking for opportunities to compete, and whether that's

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looking for a Strava race, whether that's setting something up in Flagstaff or going out to Southern California and doing something, like, informal, um- Mm-hmm... so be it.

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And, you know, hopefully this summer we'll be able to actually run, like, a formal race, um, in some way. So, uh, I don't know what the distance is.

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I don't know whether that'll be on a track or on a road or, or whatever, but, um, I'm optimistic that we'll get to have some sort of actual racing opportunity.

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But, um, yeah, other than that, you know, we're going after Strava records. We're doing time trials. We're just having fun, and we're just trying to compete. Cool.

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You think it's important for, for, uh, amateur runners to do virtual races? If, if they're into it, you know? [laughs] Uh, I think the important thing right now is to have fun and is to enjoy running.

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And if, um, if really pushing yourself in a 10K time trial is, is fun for you, if that's something that excites you, gets you out of bed, and, um, kinda lights a fire in you, then absolutely. Go for it. Rip it. Have fun.

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Yeah. But if you get up and you're like, "Eh, I don't know. Uh, this isn't for me. I'd kinda rather go run some trails," go for- go for that. Go do that.

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I'm not gonna sit here, and I know this is supposed to be a promotion for Boulder Boulder, and that's great. I love the Boulder Boulder. [laughs] But, like, I'm not gonna tell you to do something you don't wanna do.

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Um- No, I think- Yeah... I think it's good. I was chat- I was chatting with a friend the other day, uh, and she was like, "What's the, what's the point of a virtual race? Like, I, I c- I don't get it."

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And, um, she asked me if I was, if I was motivated to, to do any, and I, I hadn't been until this past week. Um, and I think, I think it's, like, the, the lack of, like, feeling connected or feeling

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like there are other people there with you that was why I didn't wanna do it. Like, I couldn't picture, you know, signing up for just a, you know, a virtual race and walking out my front door and doing it.

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And that being said, like, I love time trialing, and it's basically the same thing, but the perception or the way that it, it's presented, I think, is, is super important. So when there's, um...

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There was one in Boston, the Harpoon 5-Miler, and the way that they presented it was like, "We're gonna...

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You're gonna go, go for a race, then you're gonna drink your Harpoon, and then, like, tune into our, you know, in- into our, um, Instagram Live [laughs] and we'll, we'll show people partying afterwards."

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It's like, eh, maybe. Maybe that's a little bit of a stretch, but I, I kinda like it.

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Um, so I think it's, I think for races that, like, need the registration to sustain themselves, I think, like, they're gonna have to get creative and figure out a way for, for runners to, uh, to enjoy it.

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But I think, I think it gets back to being, you know, having fun. That's the, that's the most important part. Yeah, which, which should be the point of, like, actual races. Formal racing- Right... should be fun as well.

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Like [laughs]- Right... um, yeah. So have you gotten to a point in running where it wasn't fun for you? Yeah, of course. I mean, I think everyone at some point has a love-hate relationship with running. Um,

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for me, it was, uh, those times coincided with when I wasn't taking it that seriously- Mm-hmm... um, or as seriously as I should've. So, you know, in college, especially my freshman year, um, I really leaned into

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kind of my newfound freedom, and, you know, lack of curfew, and access to parties, and stuff like that. And, uh, you know. I mean, look, running's not that fun when you're trying to train really hard, and you're not

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sleeping enough, and you're not eating right, and you're not- Right... you know. Like, I was staying up till 2:00 AM three nights a week. Um, I was drinking too much. Uh, I wasn't taking care of my body.

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And so at some point, running's gonna go downhill, 'cause, you know, physically you just don't have enough energy to do that.

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And so yeah, running wasn't [laughs] fun when I was burnt out, and fried, and, you know, overtrained. Overtraining, um, which is not to say...

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Like, the workouts I was supposed to be doing were very manageable, but I was, I was- At the time it was too hard, yeah... killing myself. Yeah. Right. Um, because of my choices. Uh, so yeah.

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So yeah, of course I've, there's been times when I've been like, "This is stupid. Why am I even doing this?"

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[laughs] Um, but really what that ended up being was, like, it was, like, a cop-out, because what I should've been saying that a- about was the partying, and the drinking, and the chasing girls till 2:00 in the morning.

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Like, that was what I was stupid. That's what I was- shouldn't have been doing. Um, no matter how much fun I might have been having, like, uh, what w- has always been more fulfilling to me is the,

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um, the running and the dedicating myself to a task and trying to be the best that I can be. That's way cooler and way more interesting to me. So, um, yeah.

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That's a long way, I guess, of saying, like, sometimes running sucks. [laughs] Definitely. So what's the, what's the environment like with your team, uh, today? So

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do you mean, like, like, how does practice and how does our team sort of look on a weekly basis? Yeah.

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Compared to knowing that, you know, you guys do a lot of workouts together and, and whatnot, um, how have, how have you guys sort of kept that connection? Okay. Yeah.

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So, um, wh- when the pandemic hit and the stay, the shelter-in-place order, um, took effect, you know, we were completely on our own.

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If you lived with somebody else on the team, you could train with them, but that was it. Mm-hmm. Um, since then, those orders have been, like-A little bit relaxed.

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So we're still meeting in small groups, um, the men and the women. So currently we have four men in Flagstaff training. Uh, so we, the men meet up, and then the women meet up in a different place.

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Um, the men work out together, the women work out together. So we're still keeping pretty small, which is in accordance with, you know, Arizona rules.

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Um, and then from, like, a social aspect, you know, we do a Zoom call every Thursday, which is, uh... [smacks lips] It's supposed to be, like, a sports psychology kind of meeting where we do some, like,

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um, guided focus practice, focusing practice. Um, and then afterwards we'll usually hang out and chat for 20, 30 minutes afterwards. Um, we've had a few team meetings that were just, uh, nothing on the agenda.

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It was just social. Um, so there is still, like, a team aspect to our, to our week and to our days. Um, you know, it's not... We're by no means doing full practice.

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Like, we're still-- We're not going to the gym together. We're trying to be responsible in this, and, um, we understand that in a lot of ways we're role models. Um, so we're not trying to, like...

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We're trying to follow the best advice possible. Cool. Um, one of the things that it looks like you've been doing to stay engaged and active is your own podcast.

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Where did-- How did that come about, and, uh, what's, what's that experience like? Yeah. Unfortunately, I haven't, I haven't done enough. Uh, sorry, Chavez. Um, I'll, I'll get back on it.

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[laughs] Um, you know, I just like doing them in person, so it's, it's been tough to- Yeah... do them. Uh, get excited to do one over Zoom, um, or over Zencastr as we're using. Um- Yeah, I feel, I feel the same way.

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It's like I did my first 65 episodes face-to-face, and it's not the same. Like, you-- I can't see your face right now, so I don't know when you're excited about something.

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I don't know when you're, when you're bored with a question, and I don't know, like... It's hard as a podcaster to, to know, like, where to press.

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And so I have even more appreciation for anyone who, who normally only does it over the phone or whatnot. But yeah, I feel you on that. It's hard. Yeah. I think, um, the podcast that I, I like the most,

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they feel-- they're not interviews, or at least, at least they don't feel like interviews. They feel like- Right... conversations. There's give and take. There's reactions. They're not scripted really.

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Um, and that's just, it's much harder to get that feel over, over Zoom, and I didn't really want it to feel like an interview about somebody else's favorite movie. Like, that wasn't the point.

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Um, I wanted to engage with the movie as well. Like, I wanted to... The point was to just watch movies and have fun conversations about them. Um, so yeah.

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[laughs] I listened to the, the Top Gun review today, and by the way- Mm... Top Gun is, is the best movie out there, so- [laughs]... that one was fun. It's, uh, yeah- [laughs] It's certainly, certainly up there.

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In terms of rewatchability, I mean, it's- Yeah... next level. Yeah, and, and the, the soundtrack just never gets old. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, it's really a classic soundtrack. Um, just very, very '80s.

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Yeah. I didn't know that one of the songs was actually created for the, for the movie. Um- Kenny Loggins, man. Yes. [laughs] Awesome. Where did that, where did that come from?

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How did you decide that you wanted to, that you wanted to do that? It really came from having conversations on runs about movies, where it was like, you know, we go on runs as a group six times a week, and

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I, I was like, it turns out, like, when you get kind of on a topic, um, especially a movie, and you're talking about what you liked, what you didn't like, it goes by really fast. It's really, really fun. It's enjoyable.

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So, um, I thought

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it would be a fun way to-- a fun format for a podcast as kind of just an informal conversation about movies with, uh, runners who I think are, are interesting or cool or who are stopping through Flagstaff, um, or who I have some sort of friendly relationship with from before the podcast.

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I thought it would be fun to just sit down and have a, have a conversation about movies together. Cool. And so you said Chris Chavez is doing all the editing and all the, all the not fun stuff? Pretty much. Yeah.

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That was-- I said I don't really wanna do that, but I'll do this podcast for Sidious. Um- [laughs] And I need to get back on it.

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I think we're gonna do-- Ben Rosario and I, I think, are gonna do, uh, Jojo Rabbit this week.

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Um, and then I really-- I think, uh, myself and Jason Suarez-- And mostly I'm saying this mostly so that I have a record of me doing it. I have to- [laughs]... have to k- follow through.

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Um, I think we're gonna break down some of the Fast and the Furious movies. Cool. Well, this podcast is airing tomorrow, so it'll, it'll be out there that you said that pretty quickly. Yeah. Oh, man. All right.

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I'm on it. [laughs] By the weekend, you're gonna need to have, uh, four, four new episodes. Yeah. Um, so what's it like training with Ben? Uh, it's great, you know.

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He's a good coach, and I think we have a really good relationship, so, um, you know, I enjoy it. I've been here five years, so, uh, I think, I think we have a good, a good thing going. Cool.

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Talking about the, talking about the book. You guys wrote a-- co-wrote a book on training for New York City, the New York City Marathon. Um, it's a pretty in-depth and, and candid, um, view into who you are.

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Um, did that feel, did that feel-- Was there any sort of second-guessing the fact that you were doing that and sort of telling all?No, I mean, we-- it was, in a lot of ways, it was a, uh...

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Like, the idea was distilled from kind of our ethos already, you know? The minimal approach, yeah. Yeah, like we've never been, um, we've never, like, kept workouts close to the vest or anything like that. Uh, so-

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Mm-hmm... uh, the idea, that part felt pretty natural. Um, I think the part that was a little bit harder was,

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like I knew that the book was gonna be the best it could be if I was very open and personal and transparent about stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, and it felt more like a journal as opposed to sort of like- A training log...

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a polished-- yeah, a polished training log or like a, a hype piece, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, so I think the hardest part was, like, sharing, uh...

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Like one-- at one point, I share how I almost-- I felt like I was about to have an anxiety attack in a workout.

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Um, you know, I talk about, like, doubts and fears I had in my own fitness, and those are the hardest parts to write, but I knew that they were gonna be-- without those, the book- The, the realest... wouldn't be good.

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Yeah. Um, because no one wants to read, like, 17 chapters, you know, 150 pages of like, "This is going really well." You need- [laughs] Right... you know, nor is that reality. Scott's perfect build-up, yeah.

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Yeah, nor is that reality by any means. So, um, kind of opening myself up to, like, sharing stuff that maybe wouldn't paint myself in the best light, I guess, is, is more interesting to me.

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And I find that part fascinating in particular.

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Um, I think that that's what separates your group from many others, where, um, yeah, you're all running fast times, but you're also showing the human side, and I think it's very intentional, and I think it's needed in the sport.

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Um, but has that, has that always been, I don't wanna say second nature, but has that always been something that you've done, or is that-- has that evolved?

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You mentioned that, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't super comfortable at first. So what was, what was that process like? Um,

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yeah, I guess I don't think I would have ever done it had I not been on, um, an easy league to begin with.

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Uh, just part of the ethos of the team and part of our responsibilities as a member of the team is to, uh, share every part of the journey and document kind of like this--

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document our, our lives in a way that, you know, a-- that is interesting to people. We need to cultivate fans. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's sort of a professional obligation, but, um, it's also-- the hardest part is like, uh,

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is like starting out doing it the first time- Mm-hmm... because you're worried that people will, like, not accept it or whatever, um, or not look at you favorably.

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But realistically, like, running fans are pretty tame [laughs].

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Um, like I've-- I don't know that I've ever, like, shared something about disappointment or shared something I felt uncomfortable sharing, and then also got, um, like negative feedback from it.

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Uh, it's way, you know, harder to be like a professional basketball player, football player, baseball player, where the spotlight is really, really big. Um, so I think it's, you know, the running, running fans are great.

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They're, they're very supportive. Thank you again to the Bolder Boulder for supporting this episode. If you've tuned into the podcast in the past, you may have heard me talking about this race and how amazing it is.

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I've run Bolder Boulder the past two years, and I'm definitely going to miss it this Memorial Day. It's one of my favorite races.

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Fortunately, they're offering a free and virtual edition with proceeds from their limited edition gear going to support Colorado's COVID-19 Relief Fund. Register today at bolderboulder.com.

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And now back to my chat with Scott. Um, one of the other things you mentioned was having an anxiety attack in a workout. Um, is mental health or how, how is mental health something that you focus on?

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Yeah, I mean [laughs], um, you know, it's, it's not something you think about really until it is something that you really have to work on, I feel like. At least that was my- kind of my experience. Um- Mm-hmm...

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up until, uh, college, I, I never had to deal with any sort of like mental hygiene or mental health training or anything like that, and then all of a sudden, like I was having, um...

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I had like a documented anxiety disorder, um, and I had like three nights in a row where I was just irrationally obsessing about this stupid bank account that I had closed, and like how it was definitely still open, like even after I'd checked.

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And so since then, I've noticed that like just I have irrational anxiety in general, um, about things that are-- I don't, don't warrant me being anxious over. Um,

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so yeah, I think it's, it's important to me to be at least in control of, or not in control of, but, um,

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be able to deal with kind of the things that I go through in a healthy way, as opposed to, you know, staying up for three nights in a row.

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Like now I have strategies to kind of nip that in the bud, um, which I didn't have in college, uh, when I was just kind of like at this sort of anxiety disorder's whim.

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Um, so yeah, I guess in that, that's another rambling answer, but, uh, mental health is very important to me, Jonathan. [laughs] Awesome. How'd you-- how did you get there, uh, to have these strategies in place?

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I mean, the first thing I did- Did you work, you work with a therapist? Yeah, first thing I did was go see a mental health professional.

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Um-And then he gave me some exercises to do, and I, I did them, especially when I was feeling anxious. And, uh, at the start what I... I would journal them.

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I would carry around this, like, little journal, and I would write, like, in a very factual way, like, what I was doing and what the anxiety felt like, um, in like, basically as plain of language as I could.

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So it'd be like, "Standing in line at grocery store. Um, inside of chest feels, uh, itchy, um, uncomfortable, you know, 6 out of 10 severity," or something like that. Like, in a really, um,

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in a really straightforward kind of way.

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And then I would write, like, the thing I did to try to make it better, um, which was generally, like, a mindfulness-based technique, like grounding, where you focus on your feet touching the, the ground, or you take, like, seven breaths where you focus on the air coming in and out of your nose, um, or other techniques like that.

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Uh, and then not long after that, I, I sort of started a more formal mindfulness-based practice where I meditate every day, or at least I try to. Um, yeah, that's kinda what it looked like. Cool.

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I appreciate your, um, candor and openness with the mental health piece.

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It's something that, um, I think is important particularly for men to talk about so that it's not taboo, uh, taboo, I guess that's how you say that.

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Um, because, because I think that everyone's dealing with shit, and people think that everyone's, you know, not dealing with shit. And, um, to be able to hear more people and more men talk about

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the fact that, yes, they're struggling, yes, you can do something about it, and you can manage these things, I think it's, it's that, um, we're-- not we're all in this together, but, like, we're all f-

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we're all-- we all have things that we need to work on. Um, and I think that there's power in that type of unity. Yeah.

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And to your point, like, I mean, I was a psychology major in, in college, so it's like I knew the stats that- Mm-hmm...

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I think it's, like, 78% of people at some point in their life meet the criteria for at least one diagnosable mental disorder. Um- Mm-hmm... and it was so hard for me. Like, I still-- it took like--

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I still didn't really want to go to the mental health center 'cause I thought there was- Right... some stigma around it. I mean, there, there is some stigma- Yeah... around it.

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Um, I felt like it was a display of weakness or s- or something, um, even though three-quarters of the people, like, more people- [laughs] Right... than not will experience something similar or in a similar vein. Um,

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so yeah. I mean, I, I think going to see a therapist and opening up that line of communication was probably, uh,

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the best thing I could have done, um, especially compared to not going to see a therapist and just trying to- [laughs]... figure it out on my own and, like, how just dealing with, like, one problem after another.

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Like, how many times can you go to a bank and check to see if you have, have an account open, you know? Like, how many times can you, like, really struggle to get to sleep at night, um, before you kind of need to?

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And for me, that answer was- Yeah... like, go to the bank twice and not sleep for three nights. That was the answer for me apparently. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. The, the 78% thing is fascinating. Um,

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w- I started-- So I, I saw a therapist when I was a kid for, like, pretty bad depression as a, you know, eight-year-old, and what could an eight-year-old be depressed about? I don't know, but I was.

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Um, and so I saw, I saw a psychologist up until high school, and then I was in a much better place. And, um, for whatever reason, a couple years ago, I

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had a few people tell me, "You know, this might be worth picking up again," and so I did.

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And I shared that I was seeing a therapist on an Instagram post, and I had, like, literally 75 people reply to a story saying, "I see a therapist too," or, "Thanks for this. I'm g- I just started seeing a therapist too."

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And it's like I don't have, like, tens of thousands of people viewing my stories, and the fact that that many people responded, how many, how many did that apply to that didn't respond?

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And, and, like, literally the first 10 people I told that I was seeing a therapist, all 10 of them said that they were seeing a therapist too.

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So I think your point about, like, the stigma is a huge one, and there is a stigma, but behind the stigma, it seems like everybody's doing it or, or at least is impacted by it. Yeah.

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It's, it's kind of interesting to talk to people who have-- to, like, uh, know that there's a stigma and also talk to people who, uh, either are in therapy or have been to therapy.

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And pretty much everyone is like, "Yeah," like, "I love it." Like, "My therapist is really important to me." Yeah. [laughs] "This is such a valuable use of my time and money." [laughs] Right. Yeah.

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And yet it's still hard to, it's still hard to go sometimes, you know? It's still tough. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the first step is the hardest.

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Um, I was talking with Grace and Murphy about it the other day, and, and she was doing a Q&A on, on her, um, Instagram.

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And so one of the things that she said was, "Just, just take an-- take any action, small or large, to, to put the, you know, put the wheels in motion to get started." And I think that that's, that's

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hard, and it shows strength that you can do it. Um, but yeah. I totally agree. Like, the-- I'm now doing it on a weekly basis, and that hour or that 45 minutes is, like, the best use of my time.

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And it's always fascinating because sometimes I go into the... into it, like, I don't know what we're gonna [laughs] talk about this week. Yeah.

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But then he, he just like, he asks a question, and then you talk about, um, yeah, and then you talk about something that happened 10 years ago, and you talk about it for t- [laughs] for 20 minutes, and then it starts to explain, like,

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what's going on today, and it's, it's just fascinating how it works. Yeah, and, you know, I guess to the stigma as well, like,

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it's kind of interesting to me that there is a stigma, um, because no one would ever look down on you for going to see a doctor if your ankle was messed up. Right. You know? They're like, "Yeah, I have a shitty ankle.

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Like, I went in to see a doctor, and then he gave me exercises, and it wor- helped me to find relief in my ankle pain."

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Like, that would be such a normal conversation to have, whether that's, you know, two guys having that conversation, a guy or a girl, whatever, you know? Um, and for whatever reason,

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um, I guess it's maybe, like, people think that sort of your mental health is more related to your intrinsic value as a human being. I don't know what the answer is. But, um,

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maybe they see that as differently than, like, ankle or hamstring or knee pain. But, you know, the way I see it is it's a doctor. A doctor is a doctor, and if it's gonna help you

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have a better relief, or have relief, or have a, a better life or a better day, you know, go see him. Doesn't matter if it's a ther- a mental therapist or a physical therapist, you know. Definitely.

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Is gratitude something that you practice as well as part of the meditation? Um, I wouldn't say I, I practice it in, like, a, a formal way. Uh,

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most of the meditations I do are, like, literally just sitting still and focusing on your breath for 10 to 15 minutes. But, um,

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I think it certainly does-- Like, that practice certainly does lead to me experiencing more gratitude in my life and, um, being clear-eyed about the fact that I have a pretty sweet life.

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Like [laughs] I don't mean to come on here and brag about how cool my life is, but, um- [laughs] Like- I get to run and eat burritos all the time. Yeah. [laughs] But no, I think, um,

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it has, I guess, helped me see, like, the really good parts of, of my life, as opposed to- Yeah... focusing on- Focusing on the bad... maybe things, yeah, maybe things that I, I am not as fond of. Cool.

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A couple of questions that people wrote in. Um, what is one thing that you learned from the trials or, or one thing that you would do differently? Hmm. Um, one thing I would do differently from the trials.

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Well, uh, I would run better, I guess. [laughs] So, um, you know, I, I, I think the... [sighs] Here's what I'll say.

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I think after Boston, I ran 2:09, and I thought of myself as, uh, being, like, a 2:09 guy, I guess, inherently. Um,

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and it has taken a little while, and I don't even necessarily know if I'm all the way back there, to kind of have reestablished sort of the edge and the underdog mentality I felt that led to the 2:09.

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Um, but it's really easy, you know, when you have run really well, to kind of read your own press clippings and, uh, see all these sort of predictions of, like, you're gonna make the team. Like, these are my top three.

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Scott's in it. And just sort of believe that I have some sort of claim to being better than people who I've beaten previously, which is obviously not the case. Like, each race is its own thing. Um,

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so yeah, I guess, uh, I don't necessarily know if that's one thing that I could have done [laughs] differently or, or one thing I've learned, but, um, I guess my- Maybe it's humility.

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Like, you, you still have to- Yeah, sure... you still have to execute. That's probably a, a, a con- more concise way of, of- [laughs]... answering that question, yeah. I've learned humility. [laughs] Um, it was fun.

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Uh, I was, I was watching that race with the GU crew, and- Mm... Yuri was j- jumping his, jumping up and down and screaming his head off, so it was, it was fun on the other side to see [laughs] to see how it went down.

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Yeah, great guy, Yuri. And, you know, I should say, like, I feel very happy to be excited with, or to be, um, paired with the, the brands that I, I have, have partnered with.

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Like, all three of them, Polar, Global, GU, HOKA, they all had such a huge presence. You know, and they do- they treated me so well that weekend, made sure anything I needed, they, they had it.

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Like, those guys delivered bottles to my room, like, two days before the race so that I could have brand-new GU bottles. Um, you know, Polar brought down,

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uh, like, a special watch for me and some of the other athletes to wear. Like, HOKA had these brand-new, you know, flats that will be coming to the market soon. Like,

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uh, that was a really cool weekend, and I think all three of those companies really treated me really well, and I'm excited to, to be p- partnered with them. What's it like being at the, being, being

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involved in the innovation side and being, you know, having a, an ear to the people who are actually creating products? It's certainly enlightening. Um,

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you know, y- I think when you only see the output, sometimes you get frustrated, like, "Why doesn't everything go faster? Why doesn't-- Why can't we just have better shoes right now?" Like, you know, whatever. Um,

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but once you kind of have like a-- You realize that these people, you know, like the HOKA innovation crew, these are really smart people who are thinking about every single detail, and- Mm-hmm...

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putting a lot of money into creating these awesome, um, these awesome shoes.

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And, you know, the output now, the, the product that they have is the Carbon X-Rockett, the one that all six of us on the Nike Elite team wore at the trials. Um-And it's, I mean, it's awesome. It's a great flat.

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I can't wait for other people to try it. Uh, and being a part of sort of having feedback, um, in the production of that was awesome. It was great to feel so included in the Hoka One One brand. Cool.

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Speaking of production of a product, other than a tortilla, what is your must- your one must-have burrito ingredient? Um, I guess cheese. I think I would say cheese is probably the...

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You know, the tortilla gets a lot of, um, gets a lot of notoriety 'cause it's on the outside. It's the, the outward facing, um, aspect of the burrito, but I think cheese is really the glue guy, you know, if you will.

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Maybe it's, it's, like, kind of the Rodman to the '96 Bulls, if that was a burrito. Uh, just 'cause it really helps, it really...

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Something maybe you don't think about all the time, but accentuates all the other aspects of the burrito. What is your- what's your ideal burrito? I would say, I'm gonna get real specific with you, Jonathan.

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I, I really am. All right. Let's, let's do it. I'm, uh, it is a Super Azteca burrito from Burrito Azteca on Rosa Parks in North Portland. Uh, that was, you know, that's what we used to get

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probably two times a week every time we would go to Burrito Azteca in college. Um, yeah. Actually, they, when, uh, we were going to college, when I was going to college, uh,

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that was not on the menu, the Super Azteca burrito, because the Super Azteca is a,

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it's a chile relleno burrito with meat in it, and back then you could just get the chile relleno or you could get the Azteca burrito until myself and, and a few friends asked, "Can I just get the Azteca burrito- [laughs] -with chicken and a,

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and a chile relleno? Um, can you just put it in there?" And I very distinctly remember on the first time, the first time I did it, the guy said, "I don't know how much to charge you for that."

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[laughs] And I said, "Whatever you think is fair, man." And, uh- [laughs] Yeah, and now I guess that's been, uh, five years later it's on the menu, and I really feel responsible for that. Are you getting royalties?

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You should be. No, I don't think I deserve it. This place was so special. I can't be taking money out of their pockets. I don't deserve it. [laughs] This place is a haven- So- -of quiet.

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Before I started going there- [laughs] -it'll be, it'll be a haven well after I've, well after I've died. [laughs] God willing. So we [laughs] so I have a similar story.

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Um, growing up, uh, I grew up just outside of Boston in a town called Needham. Yeah. And Needham is, is next to Brookline, home of Ana's Taqueria, the greatest burrito place in Boston, in my opinion.

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Um, not in my opinion, this is a fact. Um,

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and every, every time we had the long lunch in high school, we would go, and it was like a, it was like a 26-minute drive in each direction, and we had, we had like 70 minutes or something for lunch.

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Um, so it's sort of like threading the needle on both sides, but we would, we would get a, a double super burrito. Mm. We would get two super burritos and put 'em down,

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like, twice a week, and it was, it was the best, and it wasn't on the menu, and now it is.

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Uh, and now apparently they even have something larger than that, [laughs] and I can't imagine eating, like, like 24 or 30 ounces of a... or 30 inches of a burrito, but I guess, I guess that's what you need sometimes.

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Yeah. That sounds like, uh, maybe you might be flying too close to the sun there, brother, but I support- [laughs] -any one's burrito consumption, no matter how long.

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[laughs] Speaking of flying, if you had to choose any actor to play you in the f- play you in a film, why would it be Tom Cruise? No, I'm kidding. Uh, who would it be and why?

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Um, I mean, I think selfishly it would be Ryan Gosling, because he's just so handsome. [laughs] He's just so handsome. Um, and yeah. I mean, that's it. That's the whole reason. He's very handsome. Okay. There you go.

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Yeah. Uh, what is one film that everyone loves that you can't stand? Oh, what am I alone on? All right. All right. People are gonna really hate this. I didn't like The Usual Suspects very much. Okay. I just didn't.

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I didn't care for it. And look, this movie came out in like 1988, so spoiler- [laughs] The haters probably- I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say spoilers. Um, if you don't, you know, turn it off. It's 52 minutes.

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[laughs] Turn off this thing. If you haven't watched it, go watch it. It won, you know, a, a couple awards, but it... Here's what I didn't like about it.

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The whole, every time in a heist movie, right, or like a sort of like a thriller or a caper, the bad guy, if he...

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Or not the bad guy, the main character, if he's so smart he's got everything planned out, then every time he's in the cop- he's interacting with police, he is in control. He is, it's his choice to be there.

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And frankly, Kevin Spacey, he got lucky a number of times in that movie. Uh, they very easily, that fax could have come in 15 minutes earlier and he would've been in handcuffs.

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Um- [laughs] There were many times they could have found out that Verbal and Keyser Söze were the same person. [laughs] He was leaving a lot up to chance for a criminal mastermind, and I just didn't buy it.

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I didn't care for it at all. Um, I li- I like

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movies like, let's say, Ocean's 11, where every time that Danny Ocean and, um, Rusty come up against someone who's trying to foil their plan, it's really on Danny Ocean and Rusty's terms, um, that they're, that they're talking.

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You know, even the same with Seven, if we wanna take another Kevin Spacey, uh, example. Like, his plan involved going to the police.

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The police might have thought they were in charge, they might have thought they were in control, but they were, they were along for the ride. There was nothing they could do to stop this mastermind.

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Which is not the case in The Usual Suspects. He could've been, been caught-Six or seven ways from Sunday. So that's my island. I know I'm alone. [laughs] I know I'm alone on the Usual Suspects isn't that good corner.

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Um, but, uh, that's... I'm sticking to it. So if you wanna hear some more of this rich movie content, check out Scott's podcast because you'll get that for the whole episode. Um, what do you wish people knew about you?

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Uh, I don't know. I don't know. I, I think I do a pretty good job of, of sharing the things that I want people to know about me. Um, and I guess not sharing the things I don't necessarily need people to know about me.

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Is that- All right... is that the first time anyone has said nothing? Um, yeah, I think so.

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Sometimes, sometimes you get, like, an oddball, like, "I play the flute," or, "I play, like, some obscure instrument," or, um, "I have nine toes," or... Nobody said that, but- [laughs]... that'd be a good one. Um,

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another one, and this might be the hardest question of, of them all, uh, so saved it, saved it for the end. Yeah. Uh, what are you scared of? What am I scared of? Let's see.

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Well, on a really surface level, um, the movie The Quiet Place scared the shit out of me. [laughs] Uh, but I think on a, on a, like, a more existential level, like, I am a little-- I do get scared that I won't, uh,

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that I won't be able to be the best version of myself, I guess. Um, I won't- Mm... maximize my own, my, my talent, and in doing so, like, I guess I, I get scared that I will let the people around me down.

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So I'd, I'd refer you back to the, the comment you made to the, the marathoner's girlfriend or wife or- Yeah [laughs]... lover or whatever [laughs] and say, um, would the people around you still, still care?

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Yeah, I mean, I guess, like, um, by, like, scared that I won't be my best self, I don't necessarily mean, like, running. Maybe, like, I'm scared that I would fuck up in some personal way- Yeah... uh, outside of running.

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Um, I guess that sort of would be, I guess, more of my fear. But, you know, on, on the running side also, like, I'm not... I say these things and I, I try to make myself believe them, but hey, you know, I'm human too.

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I'm not enlightened by any means. [laughs] Definitely. Well, cool. Thanks so much for chatting today.

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Where can we find you if we wanna follow along with your burrito adventures, your running adventures, or, uh, find your, find your podcast? Yes, the podcast is Showrunners podcast.

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You can search for it wherever you get your pods. Um, the... You know, f- you can find me on Twitter and Instagram. Just search Scott Fauble, I'll come up. And follow...

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You can follow NAZ Elite for even more behind-the-scenes Scott Fauble content. So that's kinda-- that's what I got. Awesome. Thanks, Scott. Thank you so much, Jonathan. Of course. That's it for today's episode.

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Like many long runs, it's sad when it has to end. I hope you join in next week on For the Long Run, and in the meantime, happy trails.

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If you've enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it so that others can find it and enjoy it too