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[upbeat music] Welcome to For The Long Run, the podcast exploring the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated.

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I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt. Through personal and professional connections in the running world, I have the privilege of getting to know some amazing athletes.

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I've always been fascinated by the psychological aspect of running, and this podcast is aimed at exploring this and much more. I hope you enjoy.

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This episode is brought to you by Forward Spine & Sport, a Boston-based top spot for evidence-informed sports injury and pain assessment, diagnosis, and management.

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I've been seeing Brian Kent for two years now, and he recently opened his own practice called Forward Spine & Sport with another chiropractor in the Boston area.

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At Forward Spine & Sport, they use the right tool for the right job, not the same tool for every job.

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Every treatment is tailored to your specific needs and physiology, utilizing hands-on myofascial work and taping techniques, joint motion restoration, and the part that I've loved most is the specific rehab exercises so that you can fix yourself.

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Check out forwardspineandsport.com. If you're not from the Boston area, their Instagram account is full of runner-specific tips and guidance. Welcome back. Today, I have Corey Waltering joining me on the podcast.

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Corey, uh, thanks for, thanks for hopping on to chat. Yeah. Hey, uh, thanks for having me on. Um, finally glad we could connect. [laughs] For sure.

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Yeah, we talked about doing this one, uh, back at, uh, back in, uh, in Marin after North Face, and, uh, we were so excited to connect in person, but, uh, I guess, you know, connecting after a 1,200 mile FKT is, uh, [laughs] is not, not a bad alternative.

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Yeah, absolutely. [laughs] So here we are. [laughs] Awesome. Well, first question, who is Corey? Oh, who is Corey? Wow, that's a big question.

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[laughs] Um, so to simplify it a bit, um, just an openly gay Black man living in the Midwest that likes to run trails and, uh, really far distances. So

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that is, um, that, I guess that leads right into one of the questions that, that somebody had for you.

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Um, what was it, what was it like going into your FK- and we'll talk about the actual FKT attempt, um, afterwards, but [laughs] I wanna talk about, um, this, uh, right from the start. What, what was it like, um,

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starting-- You started on June 1st. Yep. And you finished, you know, 12, uh, uh, c- couple weeks later- Yeah... um, after the 1,200 miles.

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What was, what was your experience, as you said, as a gay Black man, sort of coming out of the FKT into what you saw, um, this country looking like? Yeah.

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Um, so the very, I guess the hard part about this was, um, I kind of threw this FKT attempt together in basically, like, three weeks. Um, and so I basically started planning for it in May, and then started June 1st.

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But, like, maybe four days before I started, uh, the George Floyd incident happened, which then sparked a bunch of protests and riots and everything else going on.

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[laughs] And so it's one of those crazy things where you know you're about to take on a 1,200-mile journey, but then the rest of the world, or at least the rest of the States are just kind of, like, just c- being completely thrown and turned upside down.

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Um, and so, like, for me, I had thought about potentially, um, I guess, holding off on the FKT attempt, but we had people coming in from a couple different places that had already, um, had made arrangements to be here.

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And, um, I guess I decided to go through with it, just because it felt like the right thing to do. Um- Mm-hmm...

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in, in this time I feel like we really need to be elevating stories of the LGBT community and people of color and just people doing good things, because there is so much darkness right now.

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Um, and so, like, I made the decision to go ahead with it. And I--

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it was-- things just kept intensifying as the FKT attempt was going on, and I don't know that I really was able to see everything that was happening because, I mean, I was spending, you know, anywhere from 12 to 18 hours a day just out on the trail.

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Um, but yeah, now that I'm looking back on it, it's, it's just amazing at the amount of just, I guess the amount of [laughs] everything that's been going on. I wanna, um,

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I wanna highlight something that you shared that, uh, just now.

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You said that you think it's so important to, to focus on the good and, and, um, all of the good that's around us versus, um, I don't wanna say the negative, but, um, you've-- y- your social, um,

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your social media presence comes off this way. You know, you're always focused on th- the things that are awesome and the things that are great and, and I think the world needs more of that for sure.

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Um, but how are you, how were you able to focus? How are you able to focus, uh, on a, on a day-to-day basis? Yeah. Um, I do like to focus on the positive things that are going on.

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Um, and so, like, this is obviously an awful situation. Um, but, but-In my head, it was, okay, you have a job to do, and you would like to...

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like, I would like to go out and cover these miles on these trails, but along the way, I mean, I'm going to be running through, like, the middle of nowhere Northern Wisconsin, which isn't necessarily probably known for being the most open and diverse place.

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Um- Mm-hmm...

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but I still wanted to kind of be that light that is going through those places and being put in these situations where, yes, if people are watching the news, they're gonna see a lot of terrible things going on.

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But I still want people to see that in-person interaction where, like, yes, we are all humans, and there are a lot... There are still a lot of really good people out there.

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Um, and so one of the really cool things about this FKT attempt was that, um, there are many trail communities along the way, and people in those communities heard about the FKT attempt, and they're very supportive, whether it is someone, you know, just standing outside of their house as they're clapping as I run by, or some people brought food to us, um, or just many really awesome things like that, that I wasn't necessarily expecting would possibly happen in somewhere like Northern Wisconsin.

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[laughs] That's awesome. Um, diversity in trail running is something that has come up, uh, a lot recently.

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And I've had a couple of guests on the podcast who have shared that they feel like the only person that, that, uh, looks like them when they show up to a trail race.

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Uh, Adam Mary is, is one of them, and I know you guys have run some, some amazing trails together.

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Um, and he's, he's spoken very highly of, of his experience running with you and running, you know, at the front of the pack. Um, so I wanna know, like, what...

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Uh, first, how did you get into, how did you get into running? Uh, let's start there. Yeah. So I've been running, uh, probably since I was seven years old or so.

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Um, just kind of running for fun, and then through, like, the fifth and sixth grade, track meets that we'd have, followed by junior high track, and then high school, and then college.

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Um, but I was, like, a 200, 400, 800 meter runner. Um, really enjoyed the sprints. Um, I was awful at the mile, and so I just never really ran a competitive mile until probably high school. Um,

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and it's just kinda been one of those things that I was actually also a pretty solid soccer player, and so I used running kind of as a way to stay in shape for soccer. Um, and I enjoyed running, it just...

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it wasn't necessarily my passion when I was younger. Um, and that's why it's just really funny, because as someone that was racing all that shorter stuff, now I absolutely love going longer and longer and longer.

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[laughs] Um- And s- so what, where did that come from? How did you, how did you decide, or how did you realize that, um, that the, the 800 meter wasn't for you, but instead the, the 1200 mile was? Yeah.

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Um, so I had a few injuries in college, and so I also had a swimming background. So in, you know, in my head, the most logical step was to focus on, um, triathlon for a while. Mm.

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And so, well, so while I was in college, I qualified for the Ironman 70.3 World Championships, um, twice, actually.

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And it was just kind of one of those funny things where, uh, I would complain about having to race eight kilometers for cross country- [laughs]...

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but yet, but yet I had no problem being out there for four and a half hours in a half Ironman. Um- Right... and so it totally didn't make sense, but, you know, I enjoyed it.

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My coaches let me do it, so that's just what we did. And after college, I moved to Boulder, hoping to become a professional triathlete, because, uh, that was just the goal at the time.

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And that's when I found trail running, and trail running basically, uh, became the new goal. It's an easy, an easy thing to fall in love with when you're out in Boulder. Absolutely.

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I mean, I had trails around me- [laughs]... all the time. And it was funny, because, like, I was so focused on triathlon, and then I realized- Mm...

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like, hey, instead of, you know, being out here on all these roads and these streets all the time, like, there are some amazing trail systems around me, like, why don't I go explore those?

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Um, and, like, my group of friends at that time was basically made up of trail runners. So, [laughs] um, it became pretty easy to get sucked into it. That's awesome.

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What, what are some of your favorite trails out in Boulder? Um, you know, I've... So Mount Sanitas is, like, my hands down- Yes...

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favorite trail in Boulder, um, just because I love the amount of elevation gain that you can get in such a small time. Yeah. And so, like, that is hands down my favorite place. Cool.

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Um, so you've had, you've had quite the, the last couple of years. You've been with a couple of brands, and now you're with, now you're with North Face.

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Um, I know we talked a little bit about, um, your experience with that team, uh, last year. But what's, what's it been like to be a part of a team like that? Yeah. Um, so being with The North Face is great.

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Um, you know, it's, we have a lot of very high level athletes, um, and not just in running, but across the board.

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Um, and so it's really cool to be part of a team that, uh, everyone takes their sport seriously.Um, and it's also been cool because I've had the opportunity to do some different climbing things as well.

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Um, and so that's been fun where the brand has also been supportive of just kind of testing out these other outdoor skills and exploring, um, just other things that I haven't done before.

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Um, and then, like, with our runners, I mean, it's great. Um, we have just a really, really, really solid group of people.

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Um, and it kind of also makes you push to, um, want to run well just because you know that your teammates are also pushing and running well. Definitely. Have you asked them about a, uh, performance Speedo yet?

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Um, you know, there has definitely been some talk of one. I've been pushing for one. [laughs] So hopefully, hopefully we will see one of those soon. Nice. Yeah. Um,

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I had some, uh, some photos pop up from Western States 2018, and, and, uh, it was quite the, quite the race outfit. Yeah. Um, that... [laughs] Yes. [laughs] The, the crop top with the waist pack with the Speedo. Yep.

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I mean, you never know what you're gonna get. [laughs] Yep. Well, that's, that's what Western States brings for you. So what, um,

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w- was the timing of, um, was the timing of the FKT to sort of line up with when, um, many of these big races were supposed to happen? Was that intentional, or was that, um, was that sort of by chance?

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Um, I guess it kind of just ended up being by chance. Um, it was more just that I didn't really have anything on the schedule that I was training for, and

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to do something like this that is gonna take, you know, three weeks to complete, um, to have a crew that can come out for three weeks is usually pretty hard to find.

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So it kind of became the perfect storm of, I have a crew that could be there for the entirety of it, um, I don't have races that I need to train and recover from, um, and just there really wasn't anything left on the schedule.

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So it kind of became that perfect mix where it just seemed like the right time to do it. Cool. I've run, uh, about 20 miles on that trail, and, uh, it, it was beautiful, um, out at, uh, North Face, uh, Wisconsin.

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Um, so I can [laughs] I can only imagine what, what, um, much more of it was like. But what... where did the idea f- for, for it come from?

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Um, yeah, it is a beautiful trail, and, um, even the North Face Wisconsin race, um, starts to get into the area of, uh, the Southern Kettle Moraine area that is pr- It's hilly, but not the most hilly.

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But, like, once you go up north, uh, you get some really big hills up there. Um, and so the idea just basically came from,

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um, I, I do a lot of training on the Southern Kettle Moraine area, and that's maybe a 30-mile stretch, and then I do some training i- in the Devils Lake area, which is another 15 miles or so.

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Um, but you hear about this trail being almost 1,200 miles, and I thought, "Yeah, but I've, I've only seen maybe 75 miles of the trail total."

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Um, so at one point, I was like, "I would love to kind of check out this whole trail system at some point."

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Um, and it was probably going to be a few years down the road still, but with no races on the schedule, it just seemed like the thing to do.

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Um, so I started talking to my coach about it, and, um, Coop was really awesome, and he's like, "You know, you've put in the miles." He's like, "You've put in work.

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Uh, you have a base and just the fitness level that I think you can do it."

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Um, and I was like, "I don't know, like, how, how different would the training be w- like, what I had been doing compared to if this had been the original focus of the summer?"

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Um, and he's like, "Honestly, it wouldn't be much different. You're fine, so I think you should just go for it." [laughs] So were you, were you training... What was training looking like for you in March, April, and May?

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Yeah. Um, so it was kind of funny because I was training for Black Canyon. So I went out to Flagstaff, um, the start of January and, um, spent a good six weeks or eight weeks at altitude and, uh, then raced Black Canyon.

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That just didn't go great, but, um, that's okay. And so from there, I just had to figure out what I wanted to do. And I was gonna go after a golden ticket at Canyons 100K.

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So we, uh, put in a decent block to get ready for Way Too Cool, and then we were just gonna kind of push through to Canyons. And with that canceled, I'm like, "Well, I have put in quite a few 100-mile weeks.

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I've put in some decent climbing, and, um, like, I just have all this fitness," and I just felt like I really wanted to do something with it.

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Um, and so we just kind of kept pushing through, and then I took a little bit of downtime in late May just to kind of rest up any little injuries and stuff that were there, and then started this thing on June 1st. Cool.

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And what do people eat during an epic, uh, journey like that? [laughs] Oh, boy. Um- [laughs]... so I figured out that I would need to eat between 6,000 to 8,000 calories per day,

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and it's just like... it just... When you think of the amount of food, that is, like, it's almost impossible to eat that much, like, healthy food, um- Yeah... because otherwise you're- It's just that much food.

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[laughs] Yeah. Like, otherwise you'd just be eating all day, which I mean, I feel like you're eating all day anyway.

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Um, but I figured out that there are about five things that always work for me no matter what.Um, so Kwik Trip is one of the gas stations up in Wisconsin, and I love it because it basically has, like, a mini market in there, so you can actually get some fresh fruits and vegetables at times.

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Um, but I figured out that their cheeseburgers, their crispy chicken sandwiches, and their breakfast croissants are, like, three of the main things there that I absolutely love.

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Um, and then condensed chicken and stars soup, and then cold SpaghettiOs with meatballs.

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So, so yeah, those are, like, the five foods that I would eat every day, and it was just so funny 'cause in the morning I'd load up my pack and, you know, I'd, I'd leave wherever we were and have a breakfast croissant in one pouch of the pack, and then have, like, a cheeseburger in the other.

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Um, and so, like, I was just plowing through cheeseburgers and breakfast croissants, and then midday I was just drinking the condensed soup straight out of the can and washing it down with water.

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Um, and then, like, eating cold SpaghettiOs with a fork or put it in a plastic bag and eat it on the go. Like, it was...

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Yeah, I don't know, it's, it's really funny because it doesn't sound healthy at all, um, but that's what worked. That's wild.

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I mean, I think at the, at that point it becomes a, a question of, like, c- can you simply replace what you're burning? And, um, yeah, that's, that's fascinating. Did you get sick of any of those foods at all? Um, no.

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So shockingly, those were the great foods that, like, it didn't matter what the temperature or the conditions were, I knew that I could always eat at least some of that.

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Um, and then there were also a lot of donuts and red velvet cupcakes. Nice. Um, and so you carried all that. Did you have your crew carry some of it? Um, I would always carry my own food and my own fluids.

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Um, I had pacers that would be with me, but they also had to carry their own stuff. Um, and then my crew, I could meet my crew probably...

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Uh, there were a couple of stretches that were, like, 15-mile stretches where it's just kind of hard to get back into the trail area.

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But normally I would probably see my crew at least, I would say at least once every hour and a half or two hours. Um, so, like, so really it wasn't too bad.

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So I've done, I've, I've talked with Mike Wardian a fair amount about this type of day after day after day after day, and I find, I find the, the, the mental side of it fascinating.

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Like, what does it take to get out of bed or get off the ground or get up and get moving when you've done the same thing for 14, 15, 16 days? So what is it for you that, that kept you going? Yeah.

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Uh, it's definitely a giant mental challenge.

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Um, and it, it's kind of funny because, like, post-FKT, um, the first, like, four days, um, I would wake up from sleeping and just be like, "Oh," like, "I'm late for being on the trail." [laughs] And, like,

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and it, like, my first instinct would be to just hop out of bed, put cl- like, running clothes on, and think I need to head out of the door.

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Um, it is, it's just nuts how that becomes your mindset of, "Okay, this is my job. This is what I have to do, and this is what we're gonna do all day, every day for three weeks."

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Um, the one big thing, though, that kept me going was w- just honestly wanting to have this positive story be out there.

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Um, and so, like, I knew that, like, if I didn't finish this FKT attempt, then, like, that, that would still be okay because it's a long ways to go, especially for, like, your first attempt at something like this.

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Um, but, like, I really, really, really wanted to be like, "Okay," like, "we need another positive story." Like, let's make sure that this is a good story being told.

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Um, and then the other thing, I was running for Feeding America, so, um, like, I just, I wanted to raise as much money as possible for Feeding America because, um, they provide a lot of food to our nationwide food banks, and last year they provided 4.3 billion meals, um, to people in the States.

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So, um, for me it was kind of like I'm choosing to put myself in a position of discomfort because I would like to just see, um, how far I can mentally stretch myself, but people should not have to go to bed hungry.

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And so, like, if I can raise money for that, um, that, like, that just seemed like an awesome thing to do and that kept me going. I love that kind of motivation.

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It's, it's something bigger than yourself even though you're the one doing it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, I think it's powerful when, when you can, um, when you can get to a place where, where that's possible.

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You look at some of the, you know, biggest performances on some of the biggest stages, um, I mean, Shalane Flanagan comes to mind. She, she, um... Sorry, uh, Des Linden comes to mind. She,

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uh, was essentially, you know, working to support, uh, Shalane, and ended up winning the race herself.

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And when you can put somebody or something else as the focus or the driving motivation, um, that optional discomfort is, uh, seems to be a little bit more manageable. Absolutely. Yeah, I, I totally agree.

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Did you have any wildlife encounters? Um, there was a ton of wildlife out there. Um, I only saw two bears during this whole thing- [laughs]... um, which is, I g- I don't know.

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I mean, that's two more than others-How many saw you is the question. [laughs] Uh, yeah, exactly.

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I mean, those two definitely saw me, and the funny thing is, like, I didn't see them till I was probably 50 meters away from them.

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And so, like, um, 'cause I had my headphones in a little bit, didn't have the music too loud, but like, I was just, like, walking down at the trail and enjoying my day, and then I looked up and I'm like, "Oh," it's like, it looked kind of like a tree stump.

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And then I was like, "Oh- [laughs]... it's like two..." Then I'm like, it's like two people sitting down having a picnic on the side of the trail.

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Um, and then from, like, 25 meters out, I realized that it was two bears. Um, and- [laughs] Yeah, and I was on a downhill stretch, so I'm trying to, like, slowly slow myself down without startling the bears too much.

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Um, and also just thinking like, "Okay, what is my escape plan here?"

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Because there was a creek on one side, and then there's just a trail, it wasn't even a trail, but it was just, like, a hillside that I'd have to go straight up on the other. And I was only about 20...

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I was only about a quarter mile away from the next trailhead.

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[laughs] And so, like, I didn't wanna startle the bears and have them go straight down the trail to the trailhead, because I knew that my crew was gonna be down at the bottom of that.

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[laughs] Um, and so luckily the bears looked up and they saw me, and then they ran up the side of the hill, and so- Hmm... um, got away. That was good. Um, but yeah, I mean, there are a lot of snakes out there.

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Um, a lot of just birds and wildlife. Um, a lot of deer. Um, I got hit in the shin by a baby deer. Um- [laughs]... like, there was just a baby deer sleeping on the trail and, um, I guess I startled it.

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And, like, I couldn't really see it 'cause the grass was pretty high. Um, and so I guess it just, like, woke up and, like, it ran into me as it was confused and then ran away. Hmm.

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Like, yeah, just, I don't know, crazy, crazy things happening. Um, but the- Well, fortunately, fortunately the, the bears were, uh, were, were not as excited to see you- Yes, exactly...

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[laughs] as I'm sure your, as I'm sure your crew was if you told them that there was a bear right, right around the corner. Yeah. Well, that was the funny part, 'cause they're just like, "Oh, how is your day going?"

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I'm like, "Oh, you know, just saw two bears out there." And they're like, "Where?" I'm like, "Just a quarter mile up the trail, so as I was gonna say." [laughs] Just, whoo. Nice. Um, how did you...

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how, how did you and how do you prepare your mind for this project, but also some of the other longer racing that you do? Yeah. Um, this one, honestly, it was...

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I think because we planned in such a short amount of time, I didn't have enough time to really freak out about the just entirety of this project.

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Um, because at this point I was like, "Okay, like, you just need to break it down day by day, um, and basically just celebrate the little victories along the way."

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So once I'd hit 20 miles for the day, I'd be like, "Oh, this is great." Once we'd ha- uh, hit 50K for the day, then we would finally stop and we'd have an actual lunch, like, on the side of a trail somewhere.

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Um, and I'd drink a beer with my lunch as, like, my lunch beer. Like, yay, you just did 50K for the day. Now go back out there and get another, you know, 20 miles done or whatever.

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Um, but I don't know, just mentally breaking it up into shorter things makes it so much easier. Um, especially when you start breaking down like, okay, I just hit the half marathon mark. I hit 20 miles.

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I hit marathon, 50K. Um, and then miles kind of just start to fly by. Um, and the big thing, though, is just not thinking about what you have to do the next day.

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[laughs] And so- Yeah, it's like run the mile you're in or run the, run the 50 miles you're in. Yeah, absolutely.

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Um, and then to mentally prepare for, like, some of the other longer races and stuff that I've done, um, I- I've always enjoyed 100 miles just because I think it's fun, and I don't necessarily know that I'm the most competitive at 100 miles, um, or at least haven't been.

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So, like, for me, it's always been like, oh, like, I'm out for a nice jog in the woods that's just gonna be 100 miles, but that's okay.

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Um, whereas when it comes to, like, 50 miles, um, it's definitely a change in mindset for me, where it's like, okay, um, it's more of, it's more of self-

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self-monitoring, I guess, and knowing that 50 miles is probably gonna be decently painful and, um, just I prepare for that, I guess.

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What is it about, and I know you mentioned the, the choosing discomfort route, what is it about going to that place, um, that, that you love so much?

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And I've talked at length with, with your teammate Rob Krar about it, and he's got [laughs] he's got quite the interesting take as well.

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Um, but I'm, I'm curious for you, what is, what is, what is it about going to that pain cave? Yeah. I think that, um, I think that for me it's just something that I guess it makes me feel alive.

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Um, like, it actually gets me excited to have to go to that place, just because, um, like, there's, there's definitely discomfort and there's definitely pain at times. But it's like, how much of that can you take?

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And, like, if you think that you've had all that you can do, like, is that actually all you can do, or can you still go for more?

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Um, and so I just, I really enjoy that because once again, like, it's, it's, I'm choosing to do that. [laughs] Um, and I guess there's just something kind of wild about that.

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'Cause, like, you know, in an everyday training situation or whatever, like, it's-I don't know, I guess, like, the most painful it is is when you do some of these, like, longer intervals or something.

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But once again, like, your workout's done in an hour and a half or two hours, and you're at home, and you can just, you know, you can go eat ice cream or something. I don't know.

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[laughs] Um, [laughs] whereas, like, uh, for this longer stuff, it's, like, just... I don't know. I guess it's the exploring the unknown. Yeah, I think, I think that's one of the reasons I love it so much.

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Um, it's y- you said it makes me feel alive.

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Um, I was watching one of the, one of the movies that came out recently about western states, and they were talking about how, um, people have too much comfort in their life, and everything that, that has been built up around us is designed to make life comfortable.

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And the majority of people don't experience, um, the right kind of discomfort enough, and I think that that's...

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I mean, personally, I think that that's what leads to entitlement and all of these issues that we're seeing come to a forefront now.

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And if, if everybody w- if everybody ran [laughs] and experienced this discomfort, I, I joke, but I'm, I'm also serious that, like, the, the accomplishment and, and perseverance that it takes to, to openly choose discomfort, work through it, and come out the other side, um, you learn a lot from.

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So my question to you with, with that in context is what are the takeaways that, that you've had, not just from this project, but other races, other events, and things like that in the past that you're able to pull from running and apply into life?

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Yeah. Um,

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so I would say that one of the big things that I've learned, whether it's been this or other races, has just been, like, the ability to keep moving forward even when things are just not necessarily going how you want them to, or you're like, "This is really uncomfortable."

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Um, it's just- Mm-hmm... that perseverance that if you can do it when you're racing, you can also do that in life. Um- Right...

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and so, um, I guess another interesting part about that would be, um, I didn't come out until I was maybe... well, I was 25, almost 26 years old.

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Um, and for me, like, I remember being afraid to come out, um, just because I didn't know how that would affect sponsorship, and I didn't know, um, how, like, my friends would react or how my family would react or whatever.

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And so I just remember, like, training during those times and almost, like, training myself into the ground trying to avoid, uh, the topic of coming out.

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Um, and th- or, like, you know, trying to, like, run away from the fact that I was gay or anything like that. And it was interesting because once I came out, um, all of my friends were just like, "Yeah, we, we've known."

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And I'm like- [laughs]... "Okay." And so, um, then when I told family, they were like, "Yeah, like, we, we've kind of known that since you were probably, like, five years old."

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And then, um, on social media, like, it was actually nothing but, like, good comments and stuff. I mean, maybe one or two people deleted me from Facebook or whatever, and I'm like, "Whatever." Um, but it was just so,

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so interesting how I guess I was trying to run away from that, and then cons- and then it just ended up not being a, ended up not being a thing, really. Um, but I don't know.

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I don't really know where I was going with that.

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I guess it's just, like, the perseverance to keep on going even in those difficult times, and I think that running has allowed for me to deal with, um, just difficult situations in life better than I probably would have before trail and ultra running.

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Yeah, and I th- and I think that the, the trail running community is unique in that, um, and I was talking about this on a, on a prior podcast. Really, the only thing, and, and please correct me if I'm wrong,

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w- what it seems like the only thing people care about is, uh, are you having fun, um, are you trying hard, and are, [laughs] are you not throwing trash on the ground?

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Everything else is essentially, y- you know, irrelevant, and, and I mean irrelevant in a, not in a bad way. But, like, we all bring a lot to the table. We all are very different.

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We all are, um, our own people, and I think the trail community is uniquely, um, suited for, um, for diversity, despite m- it might maybe not having it. Um,

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I'm curious what your, um, what your take on that is as, as a gay athlete in, in this community. Yeah. I, I would definitely agree with those points.

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Um, and I think that as a community, trail running is rather open and accepting.

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Um, um, it, it is just kind of funny because, uh, like, say I'm in a new place, I'm going for a run or whatever, and, um, a lot of times, like, I may not necessarily know the people that I'm gonna be meeting up with for a run, but people are like, "Hey, come run with us."

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I'm like, "Sure, whatever. Like, that'll be fun."

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Um, and then, you know, we always end up getting to talking about life or whatever, and people are just like, "Oh, yeah," and like, uh, "What does your husband do for work?"

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or whatever, and I'm like, "How did you know I have a husband?"

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Which obv- I mean, if they've seen me on social media or whatever, they did, or, um, just, like, they'll ask about, like, family life or they're like, "Oh, I saw that you and your husband are doing this."

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So, like, people are very open in bringing it up and, like, not in a bad way. Um, and so I do think that's awesome.

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Um, but then I do also think that part of that has to do with, like-Um, when you are an athlete that maybe has been towards the front of the pack for a lot of things, I feel like the experiences might be slightly different, um, than maybe some of the people that are in the back of the pack, um, or maybe even some of the newer people that are getting into trail running that just, um, don't feel

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super, super comfortable in the trail running community. Um, and I think that we can still do better at inclusion and diversifying the sport.

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Um, and so it's, it's overall a very, very positive thing, so. That's awesome.

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Um, and then how, how does the intersection of being a Black gay athlete, um, present itself and, and how... What's been your experience, uh, in that arena? Yeah.

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Um, so, uh, once again, like I-- like the trail running community when I came out, uh, was a great community, community to be part of. Um, and just over the years, it--

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the, the funny thing to me is being Black and gay has been less of an issue when it's came to, say, like sponsorship and stuff than, uh, living in the Midwest. Um- [laughs]...

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like, honestly, because like- Because of race, race access or, or, um, closeness to, to the West Coast? Yeah.

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So like for us, it's like if we want to get ready for some of these early season West Coast races, then like- Oh, yeah...

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we're gonna have a lot of treadmill running we're gonna do, um, or we're gonna be like just even on the treadmill just to get the hills and stuff. Yeah.

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And so it's funny because they're just-- the Midwest has a lot of great races here. Like Superior 100 is like the 10th oldest 100-mile race in the country.

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Uh, Kettle Moraine 100 is like the 12th oldest 100-mile race in the country.

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And, um, like, we have these races that don't necessarily get the same respect as they used to, but you have to remember athletes like Scott Jurek used to win Superior and he used to win Voyageur in Minnesota.

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And, um, and so [laughs] one of the big things that I've just noticed is like, uh, a lot of sponsorships want, you know, like the pictures of people on the mountains and all that stuff.

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And, you know, maybe the pictures of corn fields don't necessarily sell gear or whatever as much [laughs], but I think for it makes-- I think it makes for a very interesting story. Um,

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and so yeah, like it just-- z- we have a lot of great athletes here, and sometimes I feel like we get overlooked or people are like, "Oh, well, you know, he lives in the Midwest, so, like, he's probably not gonna run well at this" or whatever.

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Um, and so it is just kind of fun to go out and have those great performances on some of the West Coast races or even, you know, uh, on an international stage. Yeah.

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I think that's-- that, that sort of gets back to the, the principles of training and it's, you know, you don't need to be flashy. You don't need to be, you know, overly, you know, using all of the, um,

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mountains around you or whatnot. Um, [laughs] I had a, uh, uh-- I've had the same problem.

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I live in, in Boston, and, and in Boston, my, my fourth floor apartment is the highest elevation that I get on my run, [laughs] and it's like, you know, 50 feet above sea level. Um, and

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I, I talked to my coach, David Roche, uh, uh, last year about I really wanted to do, um, Rim to Rim to Rim.

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And so we talked about like how, how was I going to train for this without, you know, miles and miles and miles of climbing. And he was like, "We're just gonna get as fit as possible."

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And that's, you know, that applies to anything. And, and, you know, we didn't even do very much, um, you know, terrain-specific training.

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There was-- there were a few hard downhill efforts, but, you know, you [laughs] can only do that once or twice in a cycle anyways. Um, so, so has Coop been, um...

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How has Coop handled, you know, you racing internationally and, and in the West, uh, while living in the Midwest? Yeah. Um, it's basically the same principle of just getting as fit as possible. Um, and it is-- it can be

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interesting when you're like, "Okay, so I can do a 20-mile run, and I can gain less than 500 feet in 20 miles around here." Right.

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Um, and so I'll go out and do those, but, like, those will normally have intervals in them or something like that, and it's just kind of one of those mental challenges of knowing that these five-minute intervals that you're doing when you're, um, in the middle of a 20-mile run are basically trying to simulate, you know, like a five-minute hill climb or something.

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Um, but it's just-- it's so, it's so much of a mental game as well, but he's been great about that.

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And then I do also-- we do have a 20-mile trail loop that's about an hour and 15 or an hour and 20 minutes from the house that actually has 4,500 feet of gain. Um, and so it's the Crimea River course.

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Um, and so like- That's great name. Yeah. And, like, I go down there. If I'm home, I go down there probably once a week to get in a longer run and knock out that kind of climbing.

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And it's really funny because, like, those 4,500 feet are like the bulk of my weekly vertical. [laughs] Um, [laughs] and it's, it's fun though.

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Um, and so we just-- we become very creative with the different workouts, and that's mainly more for like the mental sake of it, so I don't get sick of doing the same, like, intervals over and over and over.Um, and then, like, honestly, when it comes to some of these races, it's just, uh, go down there and try to at least get a run in on the course just so you can kind of see the terrain and stuff and know what you're in for.

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Um, but, like, historically I've run pretty decent at altitude coming from, uh, sea level, so that is one thing that I've, uh, I've always kind of enjoyed. That was gonna be my next question.

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How do you, how do you handle altitude? Uh, yeah. You know, just you really need to be smart and, uh, probably a bit more conservative on the climbs anyway.

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Um, on the flats and downhills I think that you can kind of let it go a little bit more.

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Um, but, like, I've typically run well at altitude coming from sea level, but I'll either fly in, you know, one, maybe two days before. Um, otherwise I'll try to get there a couple weeks before and kind of just explore.

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Um, but if I'm gonna be there for a couple weeks, then it's usually, like, a, like, a tune-up race and then a bigger race coming up later in that cycle. Cool. Where are some of your favorite places to race?

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Um, I love Peru. Um, so The North Face has a endurance challenge race down in Peru that is, um, really awesome. It's also so, um, it's so hot and it's so hard, but it's so fun.

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Um, and then Japan for Ultra Trail Mount Fuji was actually really cool. Um, I need to go back to that sometime just 'cause I was at mile 90 when the race was canceled due to a blizzard. [laughs] Um, and then, yeah.

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Like, Peru and Japan have been really cool. Um, and then here in the States, like, I don't know, I really do enjoy a lot of the upper Midwest stuff. So, like, uh, Superior or Marquette, like, those have all been great.

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Um, and then honestly, like, Tunnel Hill is just kind of that really fun end-of-the-season race that a lot of people go and run insanely fast there. That's 100, right?

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Uh, they have a 50 and 100, and they've also added a marathon. Oh, wow. Choose your own adventure. Um, what's, what's on tap for you for the rest of the year?

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What are your, what are your next big dreams or goals, or, or how are you approaching the second half of 2020? Yeah. Um, I don't know.

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The second half of 2020 is going to be interesting because I don't necessarily have anything on the schedule at this point.

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Um, I am potentially going to run Kettle Moraine 100 in September if that race still happens. Um, and [laughs]

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it's just funny 'cause I've been on that course so many times, and then just was on it throughout the Ice Age FKT. Um, but, like, I don't know.

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It's one of those races that it has never fallen on a great weekend for me, 'cause it's always, like, right before states or somewhere in there, so I've just never done it.

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And I think that this year it'd be really cool to kind of still race it because it's something local.

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Um, so if we have any local races that end up happening, um, I'll probably happen to quite a few of those and just kind of, um, still try to race safely, um, as long as it's something that I can drive to.

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But I don't see flying to any sort of race or FKT probably for the rest of this year. Um, and I don't know. Right now it's just kind of recovery time and, and, um, yeah.

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Recovery and a little bit of unstructured training. Cool. Um, what do you know now that you wish you knew when you started trail running? Hmm. I don't know. I mean, the...

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So I started trail running probably about six years ago, and I guess one of the really funny things was that I was still, like, obsessed with what the watch would say.

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[laughs] Just because, like, I was coming from a track and field background where it's like, okay, if you're gonna do these intervals then you have to do them in this pace, and there you go.

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And then coming from triathlon where a lot of things are, like, watching your heart rate on the run or watching your watts on the bike and all of these different things.

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Um, and then trail running was just, like, so frustrating for me, 'cause I'm like, "But why does my heart rate say this, but then the pace is saying this?"

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And it just was, like, this giant, like, okay, like, let's just turn the watch on when you start your run, turn the watch off when you stop your run, and there you go. So I guess that's the big thing.

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Like, I've, I don't, I don't really look at my watch anymore when I'm running. Um, I just use it to kind of keep track of distance and, um, or even, not even distance, but time.

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Like, we do everything time-based now, and that is just so much more relaxed and so much more exciting for me. Yeah, it's interesting.

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I started, um, as a runner working with a coach who was a track and field, um, and cross country coach, and now I work with a trail-focused coach. And the, the difference between... And, and both approaches are useful.

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Uh, it just depends on, you know, what the, what the goal is and what the focus is. But, um, I've found so much freedom from, you know, not being tied to a specific workout pace or a time or, you know, whatnot.

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And, like, last year, I just remember over and over again, like, my long run pace was at a, like, a pace if you told me to run it for 15, 20 miles, I'd be like, [laughs] "I can't do that."

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But instead it was just like, go out, run, and, and then do this within the, within the long run. And, you know, it, it turns out-You, you can do much more than you, you think you can.

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So, so sort of subconsciously or, or in- unintentionally, maybe intentionally from the coach's perspective, you are actually doing more than what you might think was possible as long as, you know, you're not going too fast and whatnot.

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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Um, what are you afraid of? Um, so one fun thing we learned I was afraid of during this FKT was ticks.

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Um, so- A reasonable fear. Yeah. But like, so I'm out in the woods quite a bit, and run trails often, and, um, like I had never had a tick on my body ever. Um- Mm-hmm...

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and so on the first day of this thing, like we walked through some field, and I mean, you came out of this field with like 20 ticks on you, and it was just like, "Wait a second, what is going on?"

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Like, "Why are there so many of these here? This is awful."

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And then it just became even crazier 'cause the farther we got into, uh, the trail, like the more and more ticks you're pulling off, that one time there's 30 to 40 ticks on me, and it's like, "What is going on?"

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[laughs] And so, like I just mentally was not ready to deal with that.

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And then the issue was even when you'd get to somewhere that you're on pavement or whatever, like if you had stopped for more than like a minute or two on the pavement, like the ticks were just still- [laughs]...

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getting on you. So my crew would be on pavement, they're pulling ticks off of themselves, and then I was just like bringing, you know, tens of them off of the, the trail with me.

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[laughs] And it was like, "What is happening here?" Um, so that happened on the first day, and then the second day, um, I was eight miles into my run and still just not having fun.

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And I sat down in the chair for probably two hours, um, after just eight miles of trail, and I go, "We cannot do this. Like there are way too many ticks. Um, this, this just is messing with me.

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Like I don't enjoy this because as you're stopping to pull the ticks off, then the mosquitoes are getting on you." [laughs] So it's like there, there was no win-win here. And, um,

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and so like I almost left the FKT attempt at mile eight of day two, um, just because I am like, I would, I don't have the mental energy to do this.

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Like we need to come up with a different plan, and we're just gonna do this at a different time of year. I'm very happy I did not let that- [laughs]...

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be the stopping thing, but I mean, it is like a two-hour stop that I took where I'm just like, "Okay, like unless we figure something else out, like I just, I will not go back out there."

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Um- How did you, h- how did you work through it? Um, so I had been talking to a couple people on Instagram, and they told me, they're like, "Yeah, you're gonna have a tick issue for probably the first 350 miles of this."

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And I was like, "Oh, okay, like a tick issue." I'm like, "It can't be that bad." And like, no, it was absolutely that bad. But the, they're like, "So you have a couple options here."

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They're like, "You can either wear pants with socks and tuck the pants into the sock." I'm like, "Yeah, 'cause it sounds so fun for running in."

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And so, um, they're like, "Or you can just take duct tape and put it like sticky side out, and put it around your ankle, so that when the ticks are in the grass and fall off into your shoes, they then try to start crawling up your legs, but they'll get stuck to the duct tape, and they won't get on you."

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And I was like, "What kind of sorcery is this? This sounds crazy." [laughs] But I was like, "You know what? I am willing to try it if that, if you, if you say it's gonna work."

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And sure enough, I went into the woods and came out eight miles later and had about 40 ticks stuck to the duct tape, but none of them made it onto me. And, uh, after that, I, it wasn't a problem. That's incredible.

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I hate ticks, too. Um, I've, uh, I had the first one show up, uh, like last week, and it was in the sh- I found, I saw it in the shower, and, uh, [laughs] I was horrified- Yeah... um, to s- to say the least.

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[laughs] Yeah. It, they're so creepy. And like the part that scares me about it is you just, you don't feel them when they're on your body. So- Right...

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if I'm gonna be out there for, you know, multiple hours and not actually stopping to check, like one would have time to start burrowing in if it wants to. And like- Right... I don't know. It just, I don't know.

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And so it was, it was just amazing how that little switch ended up being this amazing thing that basically saved this FKT attempt. But ugh, like I- [laughs]... I still don't like 'em. That's awesome.

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Um, what's one time when, when something didn't go quite as well as this, uh, turnaround, and you had to learn from maybe a failure or something that, that somebody might consider a failure? Yeah.

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Um, so with the FKT attempt or just in general? Just in general. Um, so I would say that, um, racing Sean O'Brien 100K, um, in 20-

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2017, um, I'd hoped to get a golden ticket there, and it just, I don't know, we flew in from Chicago to LA, and we were like, "Oh, it's gonna be warm in LA. It's gonna be nice." Well, it was 45 degrees and raining.

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Um, and so j- definitely not what we were prepared for.

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Um, and that trip just kind of started out all wrong because I didn't bring like all of the rain gear I needed, didn't bring the warmer stuff that I probably really needed.Um, and I thought that I was still-- that was gonna be my first 100K, and I thought that I could finish a little bit faster than, well, a lot faster than I did actually.

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Um, and so because of that, I'm like, "Oh, well, I don't need to put that much in my drop bags because I'm only gonna be out here for nine and a half hours or whatever."

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But I think I was out there for, like, 13 and a half.

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So, um, here I am coming into these drop bags and, like, don't have everything I need, don't have all the warm gear I needed, didn't put a headlamp in, like, my last drop bag.

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Um, so, like, it's just, like, this comedy of errors that are happening. And, um, that was one where it's like, okay, like, I probably was fit enough to run, um, the time that I was hoping to run.

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But, like, I just was not prepared and did not think ahead and prepare well enough, um, to be able to do that.

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And so that was, like, a-- In my head, I considered that a failure just because, um, I was not prepared for the logistics side of the race.

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Um, and that's when I really thought, like, okay, like, if you're gonna be doing these bigger races, and if you're gonna be flying to races to get this stuff done, like, you really need to start, um, just overall preparing better.

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Cool. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Um, awesome. Well, if people wanna follow along with your adventures in the future, where can, uh, where can they find you? Yeah. Um, I believe I am Corrie Woltering on Instagram.

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Um, and then I also have-- my blog is back up, uh, corriewoltering.com. Um, and then I have my athlete page on Facebook as well. Cool.

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Well, Corrie, thanks so much for, uh, for taking the time to chat today, and hopefully, uh, see you out on, on some trails at some point soon. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Of course. That's it for today's episode.

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Like many long runs, it's sad when it has to end. I hope you join in next week on For The Long Run, and in the meantime, happy trails.

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If you've enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it so that others can find it and enjoy it too.

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Thanks again to Brian Kent at Forward Spine and Sport for supporting this episode and my own prehab and rehab the last couple of years.

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If you're an athlete in Boston looking for answers to a reoccurring injury or evidence-informed sports injury and pain assessment, check them out.

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If you're a runner looking for tips and prehab guidance, check out the Forward Spine and Sport Instagram account