[upbeat music] Welcome to the Oklahoma Memo Podcast, a conversation about politics, policy, and community that goes beyond the borders of our state.
I'm your host and the curator of the Oklahoma Memo newsletter, Ryan Welton. I've been silenced by the threat of tomorrow. Welcome to the Oklahoma Memo Podcast.
My name is Ryan Welton, the curator and founder of Oklahoma Memo, your daily local news recap.
It's a newsletter, and now it is a YouTube and podcast platform where I talk to movers and shakers from across the state in the world of politics, education, health, sports, business, you name it.
And today, I am joined by Brandi Torres DeMark. How are you doing, Brandi? I'm good. Thank you, Ryan, for inviting me, and hope you are well as well. I, hey, I'm doing a-okay. Can't complain.
It's gonna be colder for the next two or three days. I'm just ready for spring and maybe summer and warmer weather and shorts and flip-flops. I get that. I lived in Minnesota for 18 years. Ooh.
So I get the yearning for spring. Yes. I, I definitely have spring fever. You and I, uh, have never met in person- Mm-mm...
but you emailed me the other day, and it caught my attention because I'm wanting to do more content about things that are happening within the state legislature, and you made me aware of a Senate bill called...
It's Senate Bill 1421, improving safety standards for children in state-funded services, and I wanted to help listeners and viewers understand this better. But it's not just coming from you, Brandi, as an individual.
You are the founder of Our Kids Deserve Better coalition. Could you start by telling me a little bit about yourself and how you came to s- found this coalition? Absolutely. So I have a bachelor's in social work
and have been in- out from that degree for about 30 years. Um, I recently went back and started a master's in legal studies,
and part of that was I was taking, like, odd jobs in the field. So I had gotten a few odd jobs where it placed me in places that I got to see the interactions between providers and children.
So the, as the founder, the coalition focuses on strengthening policy, infrastructure, and child-serving systems through research-driven collaboration.
So I, when I saw those interactions, I began researching, and that was back in March of 2025. So it's called the coalition, um, the Our Kids Deserve Better coalition.
Coalition infers that there are multiple people bought into this. How big is the coalition? Currently... So
what happened was I had a lot of people on board, but they wanted to see what the legislation was gonna look like. So there are six professional agencies out in the field.
There are two tribes now, several doctors, several social workers. That's a good mix. Uh- Oh, and a guardian ad litem. Excellent. Excellent. Okay.
So as I read Senate Bill 1421, and by the way, I've, I've covered news for 30 years and 20 back in the Oklahoma City market. I often am ill-versed on how legislation moves through.
I understand that there's pitching that happens during the off-season. Somebody has to sponsor it. But you alerted me to Senate Bill 1421 having a very good day this week. But it wasn't that it became a law.
It's that it passed a, it got past a committee. Could you tell me about the process to make this a law and where it stands right now? Sure.
So Senate Bill 1421, what it does is it takes language and pol- language from policy and rules that are currently already in the system and codifies them into law. Hmm. So
that is the first step in looking at, down the road, different sess- future sessions. It's the first step in being able to make some changes down the road. First, there has to be a law.
So once I did my research, I then presented it, it to a House and a Senate member. They decided to take it on. That was November. Um, they sent it to the bill writer. From there, it got filed.
From there, it got read on the f- um, had a first reading on the floor of the Senate, which is required, and then it headed to the Senate Health and Human Services Committee. Before it was heard,
I am, myself and the author, who is Senator Josset, um, we had to convince the people around us that it should be heard as well as get them to go talk to the chair and ask him to hear it. So
Monday, this past Monday, it was heard. It was passed unanimously. But there's a few little things that I want to add about that.
We always hear things like there's no bipartisanship and, and things like that, but everything I've seen from the Health and Services Committee from the beginning of this session shows true bipartisanshipI've seen
both sides just be excellent with each other and support each other, and I think that's important to know.
So it got, it finally got a hearing in the Health and Human Services Committee on Monday, and it went through unanimously. Now it goes to the Senate floor. All right.
So I'm understanding that, and by the way, in my experience, it, it's the same as yours.
When the cameras are off behind the scenes when they're doing their work, uh, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, they get along marvelously, uh, doing, doing the people's work. Okay.
So I read through Senate Bill 1421, and I don't know that I was, uh, uh, perfectly understanding this, but this caught my attention.
Senate Bill 1421 has been formally introduced in the Oklahoma Legislature to establish required non-violent interaction training for professionals who work directly with children in state-funded service settings.
We've heard a lot in the news about, for example, police being sent to calls where really a mental health provider would be better equipped to do this. Is this in the ballpark of what this would establish?
So eventually down the line, that is something we hope this legislation will be able to address. The cur- currently in... Right now what this bill is is just codifying from rules to law.
Because before any of that can change, a law has to be behind it. I will tell you that looking at future sessions, we will be,
uh, collaborating and getting an idea, getting definitions of what violence is, getting definitions of what non-violent training is. I can tell you from what I've seen with my own eyes, it seems, and this is...
There's no one to blame for this. This system was never meant to be this complex and hold this much volume. So everybody is pretty much, I don't want to say drowning, but everybody is overwhelmed.
So, uh, there's no blame to go around. But when... What I was seeing is, is the, through an agency that sees kids, those who had the most face time with the kids had the least amount of training- Hmm...
around certain areas. But as you went up in the, in the hierarchy or in the, in the service agency, they had gotten it up, the upper levels had gotten it different places before they even got to that spot.
So my hopes are in the future that we just bring everybody along with that kind of training, top to bottom. That makes a lot of sense.
And, and so when I read the phrase non-violent interaction training, perhaps I should presume that all good interaction training is non-violent, and really you're just saying that the, the boots on the ground, the employees, everybody in the building needs to have the same training that the executives have.
Yeah. So in a hospital system, the entry-level worker needs to have just as much as the master's in social work. Yeah. I could see a situation- And I'm not talking- Yeah. Go ahead.
I was just gonna say, I could see a situation in a hospital where somebody comes in in distress, perhaps with a parent who's trying to help them, and the people, the reception area, they don't have the training.
Somebody who walks out of a, you know, one of the back rooms comes out, uh, defensive, and they don't have the same training, and that could escalate really quickly.
Right, and it sets it off on a bad foot, because if the first person you see who you have face-to-face interactions with
doesn't understand the training or the concepts or anything like that, that really sets the tone for the kid and the family moving forward. A few questions about Senate Bill 1421, presuming it becomes a law.
Are you optimistic right now? Do you think that this will become a law, or do, do you think you're going to run into problems down the road?
I mean, a lot of bills get introduced at the beginning of session that never make it through. Uh, I, I sense that you're optimistic. I'm very optimistic 'cause there's no fiscal note attached. Great point.
One of the questions I have here, does this bill increase costs? And you note, supporters note that prevention-focused training actually reduces long-term system costs. How does it do that? Okay.
So currently, and I don't have the exact numbers from my research, but currently we are spending a lot of taxpayer dollars on, um, citizens over 18,
and many of those citizens who are needing services over 18 were the kids who didn't get what they needed before 18. So we have transferred the cost from zero to 18
over to 18 plus in places like homelessness, juven- you know, justice, substance abuse. Those all cost a lot of money post 18 years old, and we're spending a lot of money dealing with
the possibility that if they had had, if the providers had had training prior when they were in the, possibly in the system zero to 18, they wouldn't have needed as much.
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Th- this is a case of where prevention would actually save the state a ton of money on social services.
You know, ev- at the beginning of every year, whether it's through the state of the state or you hear legislators, legislators talk, they, they talk about, uh, social service spending, wanting to reduce that.
This is a way naturally that that could happen by providing better training to those who are working with people from zero to 18 at the forefront, so to avoid some of the problems that happen, uh, after they're 18.
So that- Correct... that's not only not increasing costs, that's reducing costs. Is it replacing, would this bill replace any existing programs? No. This bill only states that the rules that you had to be-
had to have this training, this, um, what we often call trauma-informed. Um, it's kind of a buzzword that some people have anxiety about,
um, because they have been told that trauma-informed care costs m- lots more money than regular, and it's very much not true. But, so the, the, the rule already exists.
There's just everybody gets to... It's kind of like in agencies in general in government. Mm-hmm. Um, legislatures in Congress t- say to the agency, "We are giving you permission to handle this."
And they always make it broad 'cause you can't legislate everything, and you can't think of everything.
So they always make it broad, and they give it to the agency, and then what ends up happening is within that agency, whoever is the head of the agency or whatever, they ch- they kind of rule the roost and choose.
And the reason this is an issue is because then the next agency head comes in and doesn't have the same ideas. Hmm. So what this would do is place into, it would co- codify into law
that this isn't an option and, and the definitions are gonna be the definitions and so on and so forth. So the law comes first, then the, then the collaboration- Mm-hmm...
between everybody comes second into figuring out what is best. Ha- have you and the coalition thought about what that sort of timeline would look like once this becomes the law for agencies to adopt this?
And how long would it take? So it'll depend on when it goes into effect. So that is part of the process. I don't have a date if passed when it would go into effect.
There is a possibility they may, um, put it forth a year, and then the coalition will have a year to bring back suggestions, um, and stuff like that to the next legislature. Mm-hmm.
So this... Okay, so I told you this, and people laugh when I say it. This is an ultra-marathon with a Navy SEAL obstacle course in it. Like, this is not a sprint,
and I think oftentimes people want it to be faster than it actually can be. And I've learned through all this that, 'cause I was one of those instant gratification, like, "Just pass the bill." It don't work like that.
Right. And, and I will tell you, I, in, in my experience, I see a lot of the same bills come up every year, changed a little bit from last year. L- it's like legislation evolves over time. So, uh, I...
It sounds like you've had experience with molding legislation before. Yes, sir. All right. So, um, I, I see a couple of the questions in here. I'm really interested in this because this, it seems like win-win-win policy.
But there's a question here. Does sta- uh, does state, does Senate Bill 1421 create criminal penalties?
Um, did you find that that was a concern amongst some folks that they thought, "Oh, there's going to be punishment if we don't do this"? Yes, because, like I said, the system is so overwhelmed
due to volume and complexity that would- could never have been foreseen. So those people are overwhelmed, like everybody in the system is overwhelmed.
Every level of the system is overwhelmed due to complexity and volume, and they were like, "On top of the complexity and volume, you're gonna punish us?" So we wanted to make it clear, no, that's not the case.
It's just an industry standard, like ISO standards from back in the day. Um- Yes... ha- have, have you, uh, encountered any objection from agencies?
I would think that they would all be open to this.I've had some pushback
because any time you say more training to an already overwhelmed system, before they even look at it or hear it, they're like, "I'm not doing another training. Enough with the trainings." So I have had some pushback.
Except that it seems like your vision is much more broad, saying, we can actually save the system a ton of money if we refunnel most of our efforts on zero to 18, and that would require proper training for everybody.
Correct. And the other, the other part about this is it's not just for the kids, it's for the providers.
When you have a list of standards and a standardized training that everybody has to follow or everybody gets ideas from and things like that, there's less of problems for a kid who goes between providers. Mm-hmm.
Or a family- Ah... that goes between providers. They get some, uh, consistency of experience. Yes. Who would, uh, who would actually administer the training? So we are not there yet.
Um, my thoughts are that it's going to... There's many possible ways it could go, and I wouldn't want to predict at this point which way it would go. There's so many different options for that. Right. Right. Right.
Um, anything that I failed to ask you here, or anything that you wanna talk about relative to this bill? For, for those of you watching us on YouTube, leave your questions below.
I will make it a point to get them to Brandi, and she can hop on and answer, or I can answer on her behalf, whatever she gives me to answer.
And if you're on the podcast, you can always send us a- an email at news@oklahomamemo.com with any comments or questions you have. Anything I failed to ask? Um, I don't think so about Senate Bill 1421. What...
Is there anything that you would like to add or talk about? I have another project. [laughs] Okay. Tell- Um- Tell me... so my heart breaks every election when I see the turnout in Oklahoma. It breaks. Mm-hmm.
I grew up in voting booths from the time I was born till now, in every voting booth, either with a parent, a grandparent, um, and... or when I had my kid, it was m- me taking my kid.
So I just want people to vote. I will never tell you who to vote for, I just want you to vote.
And I think the problem that we're seeing in the low turnout is that people have been convinced that things can't change because they didn't, they don't see what happens at the capital, right?
You talked about the clips and the anger and the, "I'm not doing it because they're a Democrat or they're a Republican." It doesn't happen that way at the capital. Mm-hmm. So
I started with a person for, with a social media specialist out of New York. It's called the Great American Reset Experiment. Mm-hmm. And it is on TikTok and Instagram, and I will provide the links. Mm-hmm.
And all it is is asking people to commit to voting in local, national, um, local, state, and national elections through midterms of 2030.
It's kinda like, uh, if we all do this and see what happens, and I'm really coming at, from it from the point of if we don't see change in three years from all of us voting, then I, I'm gonna, we're gonna talk about how maybe you were right.
Right. Right. And I was wrong. Right. Right. Well, not, not me specifically, 'cause I do believe in the power of voting and the power of change.
I, you know, Brandi, I've always thought that there needs to be, um, reminders.
I, half the time, uh, my wife and I, we remind each other, not for big elections, not for huge ones, but for the, the mayoral vote on February the 10th. Uh, the, which there was also a Deer Creek bond.
Um, it's almost like if there was an app that had a calendar, uh, you could associate it with rewards from local restaurants if you can show that you voted.
I, I don't know what's possible, but w- you know, it needs to be modernized. Correct.
And if you go to the Great American Reset on TikTok, you will see notifications that were put up for across the nation for special elections- That's awesome... and reminders. So like, it's very nonpartisan.
We do not tell people how to vote, 'cause people know what they need. Mm-hmm. And we need to get them into the habit of saying what they need with their vote. So
as special elections came around, I was posting them on the Great American Reset. Also, on the Great American Reset project, there's a script
that we are encouraging people to record themselves s- um, saying or send audio so we can add it to montages, and it's, basically the script says, "Hey, we're all tired.
We're normal people, and we're tired of the division. So let's all get together and vote." I've never heard it, uh, phrased exactly the way that you did, uh, just now. Um, express what it is you need with your vote.
It, you know, a lot of times we just go into the voting booth, and we pick who we like as opposed to expressing what we need with that vote, and I think if, if, you know, people thought about it that way, uh, a lot more folks would vote.Brandi Torres-DeMark with the, uh, let me make sure I get this r-right, um, Our Kids Deserve Better Coalition.
We've been talking about Senate Bill 1421, which would improve safety standards for children in state-funded services. I'm Ryan from Oklahoma Memo. Leave your comments. Leave your...
If you're on a podcast, leave a five-star review. That helps this conversation with Brandi get seen by more folks.
It's, it's the last remnant of an algorithmic system where the review, no matter whether it's five star or one ti- one star, but I'm, I'm just asking, five stars, it actually helps us get seen.
This is an important topic, and Brandi, I hope we get a chance to talk again, especially once it becomes law. C- yes, I'll be excited to come back, and I just wanna thank you for your time
and having me come on and talk about it. I really appreciate it, Ryan. You, you are very welcome. Thank you, Brandi. Have a good night. You too.
[upbeat music] I've been silenced by the threat of tomorrow.
I can either linger or point a certain finger at the enemy who causes me heartache. My spiritual condition, the result of my decision.
So when it feels like rain, I shut my eyes. I can smell the sky when I open my window. Mother Earth provides, and she takes me high.
Pitter patter, nothing matters. Man, it feels like rain. And I lift my voice to heaven above.
Man, it feels like rain. And I lift my voice to heaven above.