Success is really reaching a level where you feel comfortable to, to say, "You know what? I gave it all, and this is what I had to give."
And, and no matter what the outcome is, you know, what the scoreboard, what the time is, is knowing that yourself, you actually pushed yourself to a certain limit. Welcome to For The Long Run.
We explore the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated, and how they've been able to achieve sustainable excellence. I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt, and we're so glad you're here.
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Make sure to select For The Long Run when they ask about how you heard about them. All right. Welcome back. We have Ruben Sansa joining us on the podcast today. Ruben, thanks so much for taking some time to chat.
Thanks for letting me join, Jonathan. Thanks for having me here. I'm excited. Of course. We've known each other for a long time.
I've followed your, your running pursuits in the Boston area for, uh, for more than a decade now, and you're doing it for the long run.
And so I'm excited to, to dive into, uh, you and your story and Olympics 2012 and Olympics 2028- Yeah... and everything in between. So Ruben, uh, thanks so much for taking some time to chat. Yeah, of course.
Uh, yeah, I've been doing this for quite some time now.
You know, I went to, went to school here in Massachusetts, and I think most people who are familiar with the New England running scene, I've probably run into them, uh, sometime in the past 20 years or so.
So the first question is always a tough one, and that question is, who is Ruben? Ooh, that's a tough one. Uh, so I am-- I came to US when I was, uh, 12 years old, immigrant, uh, with my parents.
Stayed in the Boston area. Uh, I am someone who really is, um, you know, passionate about so many different things, uh, including running being one of them.
Uh, I think a lot of people have known me through running, but I work, um, as an executive director at a, a nonprofit called Braven, uh, where we partner with colleges and employers to help students make the transition from college to the workforce.
Uh, so that's, that's what I do for work. Um, for fun, uh, running's been a huge part of my life, uh, through high school and, uh, you know, college. Um, I am a brother, uh, you know, partner, uh,
s- a first-generation college student here in the US. Uh, graduated, uh, from UMass Lowell. Born pretty much, uh, you know, born in Cape Verde, but raised mostly in the Boston area, in Dorchester and Roxbury.
Uh, if you're familiar, uh, with those areas, you know, when I was in high school, those were areas where there really wasn't a whole lot of running going on there.
Now I think there is more now, which is super exciting to, to be able to kinda see that. Um, so yeah, that's, that's, uh, who I am. How did, uh, how did you find running? Uh, it's a pretty funny story actually.
Um, when I was-- I was in mills- middle school, and I didn't really know a lot of, uh, English at all when I came to the US. And I was, uh, in one of my English classes and my-- [sighs]
One of my, uh, English teachers came in and said, "Who wants to run cross country?" So I, uh, I, I got excited because I like running, and I thought we were running across the country, so I raised my hand.
[laughs] So from there, you know, next thing I, the next thing I knew, we were, you know, taking the school bus to Franklin Park. We weren't going across the country. So that's basically how I started.
And, um, and then, you know, through soccer, you get a lot of, a lot of soccer friends that do running because it helps with soccer.
So we sort of like, um, had a small group that we played soccer in the fall in, in high school, and then, um, in, in the winter and spring we, we would do running.
Uh, eventually I ended up, you know, giving up soccer for cross country, uh, my junior year. But yeah, that's basically how I, I got my start in running.
At what point did you realize that you were pretty gifted at, at running?
Um, I mean, I never really-- I never even think of myself being, like, gifted, um, because I was always-- E- even in high school, um, you know, I always-- you always feel like you're, you're training the hardest out of everyone else, and you always expect more, and you push yourself, and you, you think you can, you can do better.
And, uh, I always thought-- I, I had to kinda, like, when I was in college, I had to kinda trick myself to think, like, I had to tell myself that I was not gifted [chuckles]
so that it would actually make me train harder.Because, um, if I thought I was gifted, then I would be like, "Oh, I don't need to do that. I can, you know, I can just get away with this."
So I had to kind of like trick my, my brain to thinking that I was not gifted so I could train harder.
But also, at, at some point in my collegiate career, I started to really realize that one of the gifts that I actually had was that I could train longer, uh, for-- than most people could, um, without getting hurt, uh, without really having major issues.
And I could do a lot more mileage. Uh, my body was, was pretty, pretty resilient. And then I started to think, you know, like, th-this is really kind of like the hidden gift that I actually have.
You know, I didn't really get, you know, a-any major injuries like a stress fracture or anything like that, so I could put a lot of, a lot of, um, work, workload on my body and sustain it.
And I think that's what eventually drove me to like, um, trying the longer distances because I was already training at such a, a high workload, uh, in college. What do you think has enabled that to be possible?
[chuckles] Maybe a little bit of genetics. Uh, but, um, I think just training smart. Uh, you know, being able to, to know when to push, uh, when to back off.
Um, I think a, a lot of times people stick to, you know, schedules, and they don't quite listen to the sake of actually listening to their bodies.
And what I've, what I've learned over time is, um, especially in, in long distance running, is people, you know, sometimes they say, "Well, I can't, I can't do that."
And what I've learned is really like, yes, you can do it. Just slow it down, and you can do it.
And, uh, I'm a big believer in, you know, the literate system, um, that, um, you know, you can, you can actually slowly build yourself to being able to do certain things.
Um, but I think sometimes, um, we want to rush things, and when you rush things, uh, it seems almost impossible.
You know, I've been-- I've had periods of, in my training where a five-mile run would feel so hard, [chuckles] where, you know, you could-- uh, now I can, you know, run a ten-mile day, and it's like a recovery day, and I'll feel fresh the next day.
But, um, I, I think just being able to know, like, when to push, when to back off, when, uh, you know, when your body's feeling weak, um, that's, you know, th-those are some of the, the, the, the sensory data that, um, sometimes the GPS watch is not always going to tell you, but you gotta listen to your body.
And then, uh, also with like, uh, you know, with what, um, you know, what you consume this time versus that time to be able to help your body sustain all the training.
As time went on, you went from thinking you were running across the country to running cross-country to running track and, and mid-distance. The marathon entered the picture at a certain point.
What did the, what did the evolution of Ruben the, the distance runner look like, and what was it about the marathon that, that piqued your interest? Yeah.
So in, in high school, I was mostly, you know, I was running four on, four, uh, four by four and eight hundred and thousand, um, because I f- I, I trained through a system in high school that really focused on quality versus quantity.
So my, um, my high school coach was a, uh, three hu- he's a, he was a hurdler. So, um, I did a little bit, a little bit of triple jump in high school as well.
So a lot of my training in high school revolved around really technique, form, a lot of dynamic drills, a lot of, uh, you know, little fle-flexibility stuff, plyometrics.
And we really, uh, you know, from being a kid from the city, we really didn't, didn't really spend a lot of time doing, uh, quote-unquote, "distance." You know, we, we trained on the track, you know, three times a week.
We were very fortunate to have the Reggie Lewis Center as our home track. Every single day, we trained at the Reggie. So when I went to colle-- when I was, uh, you know, being recruited to run to college,
um, it was a huge transition for me to actually do mileage. Um, that was really different.
But I think that co- that combination of now you're going to be doing a lot more quantity, um, allowed me to actually bring all of the things that I learned in high school to, to bring to the picture.
So when we would go to, um, track meets, you know, I had my routine. I knew exactly what to do, how to stretch, the type of drills to do. I knew all the little things that could actually help me stay injury-free.
And then once we, we, we got to co-- Once I got to college, you know, we slowly, um...
I, I went to a program that was really focused on distance running, uh, at UMass Lowell, uh, where, you know, we really, um, my coach, uh, really focused on a lot of the aerobic development, um, at the time there.
And I think that, that kind of brought the combination of two different things. Uh, in, in high school, I, I was really an anaerobic beast. I could run four hundred pretty quick, you know, close to fifty seconds.
Um, but then, uh, in high sc- in college, really started to kinda take on more distance. Uh, at first, I tried the mile.
Um, I was doing, uh, well, I did the mile in high school and was never really successful because I didn't have a strong base.
But then in college, um, like my freshman year, I, I dropped, I think I ran my, uh, mile PR in a workout during cross-country.
So I knew right away, like if I had a little bit of distance running, I know I'm going to improve. Um, in the middle years there, you know, I kind of struggled,
but, um, uh, because I had a really, uh, uh, I always did really good in cross-country, I knew that I could do well in track on, at the longer distances.
I just needed to find kind of like my rhythm of how to run these, these longer track races, because it was almost like I would get, uh, it would get in my head just how many laps, and I would just not really be in it and motivated.
It took me a long time. Uh, not until like, I thinkMy, my last year competing in college, that's when I eventually, um, saw some success.
You know, broke the, broke the, um, the school records there, qualified for nationals, All-American, all the-- it just all happened in one year.
Um, and then from there I was like, you know, I think I have so much more to give. Um, and, um, I was already experiencing with, you know, pretty high mileage, I would say, for college.
Uh, and, uh, the transition to going on the roads was something to me that just came a little bit more natural than some of the, uh, maybe some other runners who would be trying to make that transition.
So I went into marathon, I think I was, um, probably two years af- yeah, yeah, two years after grad school, I went straight into, you know, my, my first marathon.
In the meantime, you-- two years after graduating, you went to London in 2012. What was the, what was the journey like that enabled that to be possible, and what was it like to represent your country, uh, in London?
Yeah. That was a unreal experience. Uh, like [chuckles] it's something very special. Um, I never thought I would have that opportunity. Uh, I... You know, when you're a runner, you always train.
Sometimes you train not, you know, looking at any of those big goals. You're just, like, training for your next race. Uh, and at times you're just training for your next week.
Um, but I, I was kind of like in a nix- unique situation where Cape Verde was allotted, uh, an athlete to compete on the men's side at the London Olympics.
And at the time, um, you know, I had already put up some pretty good, um, track times, uh, for them, and I had the opportunity to go, so I said, "You know what? Why not?"
So I took it, and it was a great kind of like eye-opening to what competition was like at that, you know, high, super, you know, high level, to be able to, to say, you know, I've been there, I've been to, uh, every-- I probably have been to every major, you know, global or continental championship representing Cape Verde.
So then, um, you know, being able to, to kinda see that and experience and be with so many other talented athletes is quite the opportunity for me to be able to learn from the sport.
And also, you know, being able to tell my-myself that, yeah, this is the next level, that if you wanna be here, you know, there's a certain element of, of training that you have to be able to do to, in order to, to make it to these championships.
So, um, that was kind of like an introduction to me. So now 16 years later, or I guess, uh, 14 years later, you're looking to do it again, LA 2028. What has restoked that fire or how do you,
how do you get yourself to a place where, you know, a decade and a half down the road, you're still in a place where something like this could be possible?
Uh, I mean, I, I think a lot of athletes in the US, especially in college, uh, you know, once you graduate college, there are those athletes that are gonna be going pro right away, running for Nike, New Balance, Saucony, whatever, and they have a full contract, and that's fully their job.
And then you're gonna have a, you're gonna have some athletes with- that will join a, maybe a training group out in Calif- in Arizona, Boulder, you know, Michigan, all those other areas.
And then you're gonna have another set of athletes that are kind of, they c- they, they could win a lot of the local races and, but they still have to be able to work [chuckles] to be able to sustain their, their life.
So I was kind of like in that group, uh, where I was competing, um, for Cape Verde in a lot of different championships, but, um, I still was working full-time. So I had a full-time job.
I have been, uh, working in, uh, higher education for the past, um, now 16 plus years, uh, which I really enjoy, and that's, um, something that I've truly, uh, you know, learned so much over the, the, you know, decades.
So I was kind of like in that, um, middle zone there, where, um, in order to be able to, to do really well, um, I had to be able to train, you know, really, uh, a lot of mileage and a lot of really great training, but also balance the two.
So balance becomes kind of like, um, it, it becomes the thing that you really try to focus on to be able to do both.
And for me, the-- over the past, you know, 16 years, um, I've been able to somehow not give comp- not give up running. I just kept putting in the mileage.
You know, every year I'm doing, um, you know, I'm doing a lot of training, I'm doing a lot of racing. With the exception of probably last year, I decided not to really focus on training.
But, you know, people go through this different life cycles and, uh, at times, um, it, it's a lot of sacrifice, dedication, commitment on your part. Uh, it impacts your entire life.
But thankfully, I've had a lot of great support, um, you know, from my family, friends, uh, the community, um, and Cape Verde really kind of being behind me, and it's allowed me to really keep my career going for a very long time.
Um, and then there's other things too, you know, being able to-- For me personally, I, I'm one of those people that, um, I would not-- during my career, I would not race if I was not ready to race.
So I've really limited myself on the amount of, uh, damage, quote-unquote, damage I've done to my body as far as marathons go. And that's allowed me to be able to, to sustain a longer career. Yeah.
I think the, the respect for the distance is, is important, and if you're not in a place to, uh, rip a marathon, don't rip a marathon kind of a, kind of a thing.
Uh, whereas many people will often line up and kinda say: "You know, I'll see what happens, and if I have to drop out, I have to drop out." And I guess there are pros and cons to, to doing each.
What is it about the pursuit of LA that's firing you up this time around? Um, I think because it's, it's here in the US, it really brings-Together, you know, both of my worlds.
I'm a dual citizen of both Cape Verde and US, and it's really exciting to having it here, to be familiar with a place that you, you know, I've called home for two-thirds plus of my life.
Um, so it's, it's kind of exciting to, you know, now that I'm in a, yeah, I'm in a place where I feel pretty healthy and it's still, like, far away, but I feel like I have really good momentum to where, um, I have a also a great balance to allow me to get there.
And, uh, you know, I'm only getting older, so this might be one of the last really good, um, good, you know, go around I get-- I ca- I ca- I can get. So I figured, you know what? Let me just, you know, go all in on it.
You'll be f- you'll be 41 at, uh, during the, during the games? Yes. You're looking ahead to summer 2028. How do you work backwards to create the framework or the structure for what would enable that to be possible?
So, um, I just kind of, you know, being able to, to eventually get to that level, to the Olympics, you know, there's the, the different qualification windows, um, and you're trying to have, uh, for me personally, either you, you get the, uh, sort of the quote unquote, automatic qualifying, which is, like, usually around 211 for, for the last Olympics,
or you, um, you are able to be one of the best from your country, where you can have different scoring levels. Um, the, the World Athletics, they rank every performance that you do on a scoring table.
Now it's pretty, uh, pretty transparent. Everybody has a profile.
So for me, it's trying to really, um, work backwards and, uh, uh, a- and I decided, uh, personally that this year I would sort of, like, take a really long-term approach to making sure that I'm healthy.
So I just finished, you know, my third, uh, I, I'm into my third month of, like, really heavier training dose, and I broke my, my year into five different phases, um, that I kinda focus on.
And, um, because I really didn't run last year, I kinda had like a, you know, a fresh start. And I, uh, I, I think my first day running ag- uh, again was back in December, where I've kinda had a, a good streak going.
But now I, I, I'm at the level now where I have a pretty good balance and pretty good reads on my body more than anything else.
Um, as any athlete, when you're preparing for a race that's so far out, uh, you really wanna have a good understanding of how your body, uh, ado- uh, adapts to different training environments and how it's able to actually,
you know, consume the training and the recovery that, that you're trying to, to bring to it. And I think being able to now see the full year ahead and, and feeling like I, I don't have to rush, you know.
If you have a race that, that went really bad, it's not a big deal. [laughs] It's, it's no pressure.
Like I, I'm at the-- You know, I've been-- I've had so many races and, um, but also having, um, a, a race that's so far out, for me personally, I'm, I'm looking to run the California International Marathon at the end of the year.
It allows me to really test out different things, um, throughout the year, test out fun, different races that I really haven't had a chance to, um, and, and really see where some of my weaknesses are so I can, you know, um, start to, to work on those weaknesses, but also see where my strengths are and, and really rely on my strength to get me to where I wanna be.
I've been doing a deep dive into my health and training data lately, years of Strava, blood work, and race results.
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Head to vacationraces.com with code FTLR.You're known for running high mileage, and for you, that looks like 100-plus mile weeks. How do you manage that with a full-time job?
[laughs] Oh, that is- That's kind of the golden que- the, the million-dollar question, right?
'Cause many of the people that are listening to this show are not professional athletes, uh, but they're people with full-time jobs, and they're, you know, professional amateurs, as, as I talked about with somebody recently.
Like, we take it seriously, but we're not out there competing to win or anything like that. But we love what we do, and we want to, to bring a level of seriousness and fun to it. Um- Yeah...
but like you, we have full-time jobs. How do you, how do you, how do you do it? Or, or what's the framework that enables you to do it? Uh, I don't have any kids, so that kind of [laughs] it, it, it does- That helps...
it, it helps. Um, you know, so, um... But I think just having, you know, I, I, I've built my life, a lot of it. Uh, s- you know, some people will see me, they'll say, "Oh, h- he just runs, runs, runs."
But I built a life where, um, I do a lot of other things that are also, um, not solely for running, right?
Um, so as far as, like, the job, um, itself, I've been working full-time since right after college, so I've been able to kind of, like, manage getting things around it.
[laughs] I do have a treadmill at home, which is really, really helpful, and I highly suggest if you're trying to run mileage because, um, you can, you know, get on it whenever, and it's not a big issue.
Um, but, uh, just being able to program your... You know, take it one week at a time. Uh, you know, just I think sometimes people can, um, over, um,
analyze things, and it's as simple as, for me personally, writing things down and making a Monday through Sunday list and trying to see, okay, when can I squeeze in this training?
When can I squeeze in this other training? Uh, looking at my work schedule, are there any things that might be able t- might, you know, get in the way?
And at times, you know, if, if I can't absolutely run a certain time, I have to, like, push my run to later. And if I can't push my run to later, then okay, um, it's not going to happen.
But being able to just program your week by week, just like you do as if, you know, when you're coaching someone, is, um, also being able to take the time to be able to coach yourself and, and see, like, where you can squeeze in the training.
Now, the hardest thing is, you know, with, with training is the recovery and the stress. Um, uh, and recovery is one thing, like, your body actually needs sleep, right? You need sleep to be able to recover.
But then it's sometimes, um, people really struggle with recovering from stress, like, just general stress from like whether it's work, whether it's, you know, other things going around.
And what I found to be helpful for me is to keep a pretty low-key, um, life where I'm, I'm trying not to really stress about so many other things, and that allows me to really get that, all that energy and put it right back into the running.
So sometimes when it's, if it's really late at night and it's, like, nine o'clock, and I can still have sort of, like, that calming energy to say, "You know what? I'm gonna go out for a run.
I'm gonna go on the treadmill and really just enjoy the time I'm there without stressing every- everything else." And that gives me sort of, like, the courage, the motivation to get me out to be able to do that.
And, um, and I think sometimes it, that can be really difficult, but it's something that's extremely difficult to be able to, to manage and balance. And we also, also, you know, we, we also have, like, social lives.
We have families. We have travel. And being able to plan that is sometimes not very easy.
So, uh, you know, I'm very thankful for the support that I get from, you know, my partner, my family, my friends who allow me to be able to do this. And you've worked with brands in some capacity over the years.
What has that looked like, and what are your goals in that department going into the next couple of years? Yeah, I mean, I've, I've had-- I've worked with brands in the past.
What I'm really looking for now is, is not, you know, I can... I just got back from, from buying shoes at, uh, Dick's Sporting Goods. That's why I was about a minute or two late.
But, uh, it's just being able to really tell the story.
Um, I think when we can, when we can bring the, uh, the inspirational story back to everyday, uh, you know, everyday work that we do, it can really help other people.
Because I may be looking to, to get to the Olympics, right? But some other people may be using that as some kind of motivation just to get them out the door, to exercise, to be healthy.
At the end of the day, um, a lot of us really stayed in the sport wasn't because we got trophies or because we, we won prize money. A lot of us stayed in the sport because we said, "You know what?
This is actually, it's fun, but it also keeps me healthy and keeps me, um, you know, being able to live longer and enjoy my life more."
So when we can kind of, like, um, bring that, uh, that connection to whether you're an Olympic runner or whether you're just beginning to train, there's always that sort of, like, community aspect to it.
And when I think about, you know, um, partners that wanna really tell the story, uh, I'd love to be able to tell my story.
In the beginning, when I got back from the Olympics, I really didn't, didn't really think a whole lot about it until I was getting so many people to, to ask me to tell, like, "Oh, how'd you make?" and all this stuff.
And I found that there's just, there's this, there's a special connection in being able to inspire people through what you do. And for me, I found that, that, um, being able to,
to show that, like, yes, you can, you can have a full-time job, you can be a, you can be a parent, you can, uh, you can still travel, you can still have fun, while you can still be able to run, um, that is, um, really, um, that's really fu- a fun life to have, uh, be able to do all things without being exclusively to, to, like, the running.Yeah, I love it.
And I, I think to your point, like, the ability to tell the story of motivation and, and getting out there and doing the thing, no matter what level you're at, um, seeing somebody who's doing it while holding down a full-time job and all the other obligations, for some that's more motivating than, you know, the professional athlete that can kick their feet up and, and recover all afternoon.
And so when, when you reached out a few weeks ago, um, about this, uh, I was like, "Hell yeah." Like, I wanna, I wanna help Ruben find some partners because- [laughs]... the story is, um...
I mean, it's what the brands are looking for, and many brands are looking for somebody in your shoes who, who is performing, and I, I think that there's a, a, um, kind of a shift back towards performance as a, a key
piece of the story versus just influencers or just content creators and, and things like that. And I think that's great.
And when that person who is chasing, you know, excellence is also relatable in some capacity, that's kind of a, a, a perfect scenario.
So for the people out there that are at a brand and wanting to connect with somebody like Ruben, um, I've, I've kicked off working with him formally to help him find some partners here, so feel free to reach out and we can have a chat.
I know we've had some initial conversations with some footwear and, and nutrition brands, and it's interesting to see how, how brands think about, um, this opportunity and putting a little more, um, effort into the Olympics, uh, given the fact that it's in the US and every consumer and every, every sports fan will be tuned in in, in, uh, in a couple of years here.
Yeah, no, I think you, you make a great point, Jonathan.
One of the things that, uh, when I first started to, to really compete, uh, against, you know, post-collegiate, and you would go to races and sometimes you, you know, I was not a, a sponsored or athlete or anything like that, and you kind of felt like, oh, do I really belong here?
Is this a place? Like, y- it's almost like you always question yourself whether or not you belong, right? And I think for me, that attitude has changed.
Now I go to races and I, I, I look at my training log and I'm like, "I've done so much hard training, more than probably like half the people that, that are here at this race."
And then I look and, and I tell myself, and I've also been working a full-time job. So instead of me s- you know, asking myself, do I belong here,
I tell myself I've actually fully belong here because of what I've done to get here, right?
And for me, that, that, that, you know, that mindset, um, has also allowed me to have some recent success because I'm no longer going into races thinking that I don't belong there or that I can't keep up with, you know, with the, with the pacing.
Um, it's given me the motivation to say, "You know what? I'm gonna stick, I'm gonna stick myself in there and see what happens."
But, um, because of, um, you know, a- again, finding that great balance and also knowing like, hey, you know, I've also built a future, uh, where, you know, running isn't just, uh, as far as like, you know, my financial stability, my family, uh, running is not what's supporting me.
So there isn't a whole lot of that pressure like, oh, I gotta be top, you know, whatever to earn prize money or, or my sponsors may drop me. There's not that kind of pressure, which I appreciate at this point in my life.
Um, but being able to, to go to races now and not have, um, you know, not, not, not thinking to myself that I don't belong there is kind of a huge lift, uh, off my shoulder.
Um, but also you bring up something that's, that's pretty cool, you know, thinking about working professionals who are also, uh, striving for, uh, for excellence, not just in their professional life, but also in their community or in their, in their activities, their hobbies.
Um, for me, that's, that's something that I really kind of...
I, I'm always bringing the two of them back and forth together, uh, as I am kind of, you know, structuring my training here, but also structuring my professional life.
Uh, I get, uh, you know, I get a lot of fun out of it and at times, you know, I, when I go back to work,
you know, and, and I tell my, my coworkers like, "Yes, I, I had a race over the weekend and this is w- what I did," and they also can't believe it. They're like, "Hold on. Hold on a second.
You're, you, you're an executive director in higher education and you're running an entire, like, region here, but then you're also working full-time." So w- we have, um, you know, we, we have, um,
some of our e- uh, step backs and meetings sometimes where I travel to, and at times, you know, it's like 6:00 AM in the morning or 5:00 AM, I'm, I'm making sure I'm getting my 12, 15 miles in before we go into the meetings.
And then when we come back after a full day of work, I'm also, you know, I'm not going to take a nap.
I'm probably gonna go and do another training run, and then I'm coming back the next day and doing the same thing before getting on a flight.
So a lot of this is kind of, you know, sometimes people think about it, they're like, "How are you doing this?" Um, and I tell them like, "Hey, I've been doing this for actually, for now, way over a decade."
So it does get mentally...
I, I, I wouldn't say it physically gets easier because your body's going through a lot of, [chuckles] you know, hard training in order to get better, but mentally I know I can do it and it, it allows me to kind of have the courage to push forward.
And you're also a running coach. Well, how does that, how does that play in? Yes. Um, I haven't been doing a whole lot of coaching as much as I, uh, I loved in the past.
Um, but I had a lot of people reach out to me and, um, just, uh, ask me about coaching. So, uh, I think it was right around 2017.
So I started a, a coaching website where I, uh, coach people virtually through, uh, portrunning.com, and it's, it's pretty simple, uh, just kind of guiding people to achieve their goals.
Uh, over time, you know, I've kind of found what works for me, but alsoUm,
be- being able to, to relate how, how do I bring all of my knowledge to someone who wants to do the training, but then they want to-- they, they, they may not have the, you know, the time capacity, or they may not be wanting to do it at whatever level, you know.
How do I bring a mixture of both someone who's training and also holding a full-time job and has a family and doing everything else?
So it allows me to kind of like really, uh, learn about people and their daily lives and being able to bring the same applications, um, the same of sort of like, um,
ingredients of my training that I know are s- are successful and bring it to every single level.
Um, you know, now they may be doing less mileage or, or less days of running, but the concepts are actually very similar in how they improve. What does, what does sustainable excellence mean to you?
How does somebody take running and do it well? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I love that.
Um, w- whenever I coach anyone, the-- one of the first things, you know, I ask them is like, "Hey, what is, uh, what is your actual goal? Like, what do you wanna do?
Like, not just for this year, but what is your goal in life with running? Where do you wanna take it?"
Um, because if you train someone for just one race, yeah, you can, you know, you can go crazy to try to make them to run fast, but the chances of them getting injured and just really hating running is gonna be really high once they get injured, right?
So, um,
sustainable running for me is being able to, to, you know, see where your goals are and chase after them, but also being able to say, "Hey, if I don't reach my goals, that's okay, and I can live with that, and I know that I'm gonna still love running after that."
That, to me, is what sustainable running is.
You're still gonna love running whether or not you achieve your goals, and you're still gonna be able to get out and run and first, first and foremost, actually be happy to be able to move in general.
And what does success mean to you? Um, I think success is really reaching a level where you feel comfortable to, to say, "You know what? I gave it all, and this is what I had to give."
And, and no matter what the outcome is, you know, what the scoreboard, what the time is, is knowing that yourself, you actually pushed yourself to a certain limit.
Uh, for instance, I, I sometimes go into races where, you know, you m- you may make some, some tactical errors and you're like, "Oh, I, I, you know, I ran a fast time, but I, I don't feel like I actually gave it all.
I-- maybe, maybe I gave it, you know, eighty-five percent. I didn't quite put in where I should have put in a little bit more because I was having some mental barriers," right?
And then I go into some other races where I'm like, "Wow, that race was amazing. I gave it ninety, ninety-eight percent. The weather was bad [chuckles], but, you know, the times don't actually reflect how great I felt."
I think that at the end of the day, that's how you, you really start to, to differentiate, like, okay, this was a really good, successful day, right?
How do you put yourself in a position to, to execute that ninety-eight or a hundred percent of your, of your potential? I think the first thing is just really being able to prepare.
That is, you know, you can't-- If you're not prepared, it's gonna be really hard to, to be able to, to produce the results that you wanna have, right?
And then, and then secondly is being able to really visualize that you can achieve that goal.
Um, I tell some of my runners before a marathon to just kind of really go through a visualization process where you're imagining yourself going through the five K, the mile, the ten, you know, the whatever mile marker it is, the half marathon, and feeling that amazing and, like, feeling great, like everything is flowing, and picturing yourself just, you know, taking a, a, a fluid here, a gel there, and being happy during-- when those moments are actually happening.
But, um, all of that, you can't do it without being, I, I think for me, really being confident in your ability to be able to achieve something. And that's something that I've had to learn, really.
It, it takes a long time to feel that way.
Um, in college, I struggled a lot of that through my f- my first couple of years in college because I just didn't really have the confidence, um, that I could be, uh, you know, or run with the people that I knew that I, that eventually I could.
So, um, you know, putting in the training and, uh, being allow, allowing yourself to be in sync with your body, with your mind, that you can achieve something, that's gonna be the m- the probably the most important thing, um, to help you get to where you wanna be.
And then being able to actually visualize it happening. Visualization is a, is a really powerful tactic that I feel like not a lot of people, not enough people are taking advantage of.
What, what does that framework look like and, and how are you using it to your advantage? One of the hardest things is, uh, we, we always have these sort of like barriers in our mind.
Like for example, um, I used to think, you know, my last workout before a, a big race was like, was the telling of how my race was gonna be, right?
Now, I've gone to the point where before my race, I've had really hard workouts, really easy workouts, good workouts, bad workouts, where I just don't let it play in my brain anymore. I, I just kind of like ignore it.
Now, there's gonna be instances where if you're like, "Ah, you know what? Uh, my calf is just not really feeling healthy," right?
Um, I feel like my, m- my, like this race may not go well because, um, I'm feeling a little bit injured. And that's where I think back and I ask myself, "Okay, if this race doesn't go well, so what? I drop out. So what?
What's the worst that can happen," right? I take care of the injury. I still have, you know, it's not like I have aRed shirt, uh, [chuckles] eligibility that I'm going to lose. I'm not in college anymore.
You know, you don't ha- you don't have a limited... You still have lots of time to be able to run.
You know, even after your, you know, after your 40s, you- you've got a lot of time to be able to run to, to make things up.
Um, it, it's just, it's just about really not putting pressure on yourself, um, that's the bottom line.
And trying to, to have all these, these negative thoughts that may get in the way of actually you being able to, to, you know, to have fun, uh, with the sport and do the things that you wanna do.
What about the, like, the act of visualization? It's a tough word. How are you doing that?
Are you thinking about what it looks like to execute properly on race day and take your bottles at the right spots and take your gels at the right times? Is it, you know...
Like, one time when I was training for a 50K that finished across the Golden Gate Bridge in California, I would visualize, like, mile 31 of that, of that day and, and see myself running across the Golden Gate Bridge.
Like, is, are you doing things like that where you're, where you're seeing yourself doing the thing? Yes. Uh, I mean, you gotta do it in practice.
[chuckles] It's not something that you're just gonna wait until race day to do it. I visualize it even in my workouts.
I know sometimes, um, I do, I do pretty much most of my training alone, so oftentimes it can be really mentally challenging to, to hit pace. Uh, I use a treadmill a lot.
There are people that hate the treadmill, people who love the treadmill. For me, I've always found it, as someone who trains mostly alone, that that's my, that's my training buddy right there.
So, um, I visualize all those things, how I feel.
Um, uh, Mark Wetmore, who was the coach at, um, University of Colorado, used to tell his runners, like, "When you go into every single race, the first couple minutes of your race, just start doing, like, a body scan.
Think about from the bottom, from your toes all the way to your head how you are actually feeling." Um, because it does matter.
It matters how, like, you know, the amount of confidence you have to be able to pick up the pace or slow down. So I'm doing that on a, you know, probably weekly basis when I'm doing my workouts.
Before I even start a workout, I already visualize, like, how is this workout gonna be.
I, I kind of get that, that feeling of, you know, when you're pushing, uh, uh, during a workout, uh, what it felt like last time and what am I expecting this time. And, uh, you know, and you kind of prepare for it.
And, uh, when you go into a race, it's the same thing. You're like, "I know exactly how this felt, and now I'm gonna visualize how I'm gonna feel during this mile and that mile."
You know, you can't control everything, right? But you can control a cer- certain amount of things about yourself. And I think that's, [chuckles] that's one of the things that makes it a lot of fun, right?
You practice, uh, to do these things in, in training, and you try to go to a race, and you try to do the same thing.
And, and I found that to be really actually a lot of fun where, yes, you're competing against other people, right? But first, first and foremost, you're competing against yourself.
This episode is brought to you by Mount to Coast, the award-winning footwear brand built for runners who go long, and I mean really long. You may have heard of the Double Boston.
It's exactly what it sounds like and also completely insane in the best way. A group of runners will kick off on Marathon Monday at 3:00 a.m.
starting at the finish line on Boylston Street and running the entire course in reverse, all 26.2 miles back to Hopkinton.
Then, after a short break to eat and recover, seven of these runners will toe the line and run the official Boston Marathon, 52.4 miles back to back in opposite directions.
Mount to Coast is sponsoring that group because of course they are.
This is a brand that literally makes shoes for some of the world's most extreme long-distance races, including Badwater, the 135-mile race through Death Valley. Going long is kind of their thing.
And to celebrate Boston weekend, I'll be joining that first marathon, and I'm doing a live podcast recording with Joe Corcione of Everyday Ultra, presented by Mount to Coast, Sunday at 1:00 p.m.
at Marathon Sports right at the finish line in Boston. We're going to talk about how to move up in distance, what it really takes to run ultras, and the gear that makes it all possible.
Seats are limited, and the link to register is in the show notes. Come on out and say hi. And check out Mount to Coast at mounttocoast.com.
And while we're talking about Boston, on Saturday at 5:00 p.m., head to the Boston Marathon Expo for a panel I'm hosting you won't wanna miss. It's called How We Can Make America's Cities Safe to Run for All.
We're bringing together real experiences and real solutions to make running safer for every single one of us. See you there.
Switching gears a bit, um, you mentioned growing up in, in Dorchester and the fact that there are a lot more people, uh, running in Dorchester these days. We both know Sid Baptista and Pioneers.
Talk to me about the, the running culture boom that, that you've been a part of and, and what you've seen, um, in, in that community.
Yeah, I mean, I haven't been as close as much as I would love to, but I have a lot of friends, um, especially, uh, you know, living in Dorchester, Roxbury, and I try to run with them every once in a while when I'm home.
So that's been a lot of fun because, um, I remember when I was in high school, um, going for a run in Dorchester was something that was very odd.
Like, you know, I was running in short shorts or I was running in spandex, and people looked at me like, "Wow," they're like, "What, what's going on?" Like, "What are you-- What-- Who are you running from for?"
[chuckles] Like, you know, I think one time I almost got punched when I was going for a run. Uh, and people call you names and all this. That doesn't happen anymore.
Like, running in, in those areas now, it is actually really nice. I actually appreciate it.
I, I, I take a run every once in a while through, you know, uh, Washington Street, Baldwin Street, and all those areas where there's a lot of Cape Verdeans running.
Um, a couple weeks back, I actually did a little tour of all the places where I lived, and I actually ran from, you know, from-From my parents' house to the first house that I lived in Roxbury.
And that is, um, that's been a lot of fun, and you actually get to see people running.
And there's some beautiful places, uh, you know, Neponset River Trail, uh, near, um, you know, in the, in the back near, uh, Milton, Mattapan areas. You've got Franklin Park. There's so many, um...
And then you've got Dorchester Ave that you can run straight to, to the beach, to Carson Beach, and then back. There's so many good places that I never actually took full advantage of back then. Um, but I think,
you know, now I see all the groups that are, are meeting up, uh, you know, Wednesday nights, the Pioneers is, is, is getting a group together for a run, and they run together throughout the entire, you know, the entire summer.
And there's actually series. There's, you know, they just had a track meet the other day, and they do a marathon in April.
So there's so many new opportunities, and what I love about them is that they are really getting the community involved, and it doesn't matter whether you are fast, slow. You know, I've run the Pioneers Marathon before.
Um, it's really about getting people, uh, moving, being able to allow, especially
when, when you take a look at the data, uh, you know, uh, heart diseases and high, high blood pressure, diabetes from those specific areas are much higher than other parts of Boston.
And I love seeing how the community is being able to bring people together for making it safe for running also.
Uh, you know, you see people going on the two-mile loop at Franklin Park and just going for a walk or going for a run or going for a bike.
That's been a lot of fun to be able to see that, and that, that's something that I didn't really get to experience, um, when I was in high school or when I was in college, uh, in Boston.
And I gotta give them a lot of props, uh, for all these different groups that are become-- that are emerging. There's so many of them now. Uh, it's really fun to see what they're doing.
I think a lot of it comes down to seeing people who look like you doing the thing and doing it on big stages, small stages, everything in between.
What is it like to be, whether or not you're physically there, um, driving that forward in, in that community? I mean, uh, visibility matters, right?
You know, when you see people that look like you, and you feel like, yes, you can do it, too, you belong in here.
So, um, I think that's, that's, you know, uh, the, the little influence that I've had, uh, I've quite really enjoyed telling my story.
You know, when I show up to some of the runs and, you know, people ask me, what was it like representing Cape Verde?
And I know a lot of these groups, there are actually a lot of Cape Verdeans that are, that are running in Boston.
And it's, it's fun to be able to, to kind of see like, oh, wow, like you, you actually, you actually enjoy running, right?
You're not just doing it because now, because you're, you know, you're trying to, to live healthy, but you actually generally enjoy the process of meeting up with people to go for a run.
So, uh, when I do show up, I really enjoy just kind of getting to learn about everybody's journey and how they got there. And, and, and also, like vice versa, I'm not the only one inspiring them.
They've also inspired me. You know, there's been times when, you know, I, I'm always trying to get to, you know, sort of like that next level in running, and I, I come back and I'm like, "Hey, you know, I can still run."
There's so much fun stuff that I can still do in the community that's not related to the clock, the time on the clock, right?
So that's, that's been re- really a lot of fun to, to see the proc- proc- the progress that they've had and how I can, um, I can inspire and vice versa.
I'm gonna guess that most people listening to this are actively running. Not like in this moment, although many of them probably. Um, but, like, they've gone for many runs before.
Uh, but maybe some people will tune in because they're fans of you or they, they're colleagues of yours, or they knew you from high school or something like that, and they're, and they're tuning in.
Or maybe they found us on YouTube, which you can, which you can do now, and they're not yet runners, but they, they wanna get into it.
What would your guidance be for somebody who's wanting to get started as a, as a runner for the first time or, or again? Yeah. You know, first of all, like everybody can run. Like you can run.
Uh, don't, don't limit yourself to, you know, like, oh, I, I don't think I... Don't, don't be shy. It's not, it's not a race. Runners are very friendly, actually.
Like I run with people sometimes, um, they'll say, "Oh, I can't run with you because you're fast." I'm like, "No, we're just going for a casual run. I can slow down." It's not, it's not a race.
It's not a competition, right? And what-- the advice I always tell people, everybody that runs is always run at a pace that you can actually hold a conversation. Like it's really as simple as that.
Don't, don't even think pace. Don't even think anything else. If you're just able to hold a conversation and you can talk to someone that's actually running with you, you're going to enjoy the run regardless, right?
So, um, that's what I would say. Um, and, you know, just, just go a couple times, find a, um, you know, find a, a accountability partner that you can, you know, set a time to go and enjoy yourself.
Or if you, if you don't wanna, you know, find someone, just find a group. Groups are very welcoming. Uh, all, you know, ability levels.
Uh, find a group that you can go, that you can kind of learn, uh, you know, what you have to do. Um, there are some things that are pretty helpful.
Uh, for example, people getting into running and understanding like, okay, if I wear the right shoe, it does actually make a huge difference, right?
Or if I, you know, if it's cold outside, there are actually weather tech, uh, you know, uh, equipment that you can buy to make running enjoyable, right? You know, I don't know anything about, um,
about karate, so I wouldn't really be able to give people advice on karate, right?
But there, there are probably a few, a few things that they could teach me on the first day that would basically break the barrier and allow me to be able to enjoy it more.
So going to these group runs can be really, um, eye-opening to, to some of the things that, that you know that you can do, uh, some of the little tricks here and thereUm, that can allow you to enjoy it because running is something that should be enjoyed.
It, it shouldn't be viewed as punishment. It should never be punishment, uh, you know. So, um, being able to go out, um, have a conversation with someone and just, you know, enjoy it. Don't think of it as punishment.
You've run Boston a handful of times. Yeah. This episode will come out around the Boston Marathon. Yeah. So let's, let's talk about some advice for, for those- Yeah... running the Boston Marathon. How about that? Yeah.
Ab- absolutely. So I've run Boston, I've run Boston four times and, um, one time I, I didn't finish, um, because I had a very close call with hypothermia at mile 18. Uh- That was 2018. 2018, yes. Uh, [chuckles]
I think half the people didn't finish that year. [laughs] And I was, uh, you know, I was part of that crew.
But yeah, Boston, um, growing up in Boston and, and, and seeing on TV, uh, Robert Cheruiyot, who was like, I think he was like 6'2", and he won Boston, New York a couple times.
And I, I, I, I always said, at, at the time, I remember
one year when he won and my PR at the mile at the time was 5:12, and I would tell myself, "Wow, I can't believe this guy's just ran like basically like 5:05 pace for 26 miles, and I can't even do a mile in under 5:10."
And, you know, I used to volunteer to, you know, give out water at, uh, at the Boston Marathon with the BAA in our high school. And to think about, you know, the first time I did Boston in 20,
2014, it was just an, an amazing experience.
Um, I think we can all, we can all say, uh, after Bos- uh, after the bombing in 2013, you know, the field was increased for the next year and there was just this like, I, I don't know what it was, there was something in the air about the motivation.
Everybody was out running. Like, everybody wanted to run the Boston Marathon. And I remember watching the bombing happen from my couch. I actually had surgery that year.
And I was like, I, I w- I was, I had my knee wrapped up and I said, "I'm gonna, you know, I'm, I'm gonna be there, uh, in, uh, next year. I'm gonna be, um, I'm gonna do the, the Boston Marathon next year."
And, um, and when I did it, um, it, because for me, that's kind of like my, my, that's like my hometown local race. So many people c- came out.
So if you're in Boston and you do the race, um, you know, the, all the, the, the preparation is brutal, brutal, but I think that's what actually really inspires people even more.
Um, training in Boston is not easy in the wintertime. Like, not only it's icy, but it's also dark. You're spending most of your time running in the dark or treadmill, so it's really not a lot of fun.
But I think once people make it through March, they kinda start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. That's when it gets really a lot of fun.
And you go to, you go to the Newton Hills for, for your long runs on Saturdays, you know, at 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 a.m., and you're just seeing hundreds of people.
And now kinda like the momentum is starting to, to like really build up the excitement and now those 20-degree days are becoming, you know, 30, 40-degree days. You get a little bit of, uh, of sunshine.
Everybody's on the course. And then on race day, you know, uh, just being there at the starting line. I mean, I've done a lot of races, and I would still say that Boston is definitely one of my favorite races.
You came in 20th in 2014, about 10 minutes behind Meb in a time that was almost your PR by just a few seconds.
What was, what was it like being in that race, running that fast and being a part of, you know, a, a tidal wave of momentum in the running community?
I became a runner the, the year prior and much, much of it was due to the, the days and weeks after the bombing and the, the momentum that was created and the pride in the city.
What was it like being a part of that next year and, and what, with what Meb did and what the city of Boston, David Ortiz and, and all these people?
Being from Boston and actually being-- I, I think that year I might have been the first, um, New England runner to cross the finish line. That was quite amazing, um, because I was wearing, um,
I was wearing my Whirlaway, which was my local club at the time, like singlet, and I'm with all these other runners from, you know, all different parts of the world.
And that was such an excitement, uh, to be able to wear my, my club jersey, being local and, uh, being in the race and having known, you know, knowing the course pretty much inside it out and out, which was, um, definitely a huge advantage to me.
It, it's just something like it's very hard for me to describe. Like I can go through a race, uh, any other race and kind of hit a patch where you're like, "Oh, I'm just really not feeling it."
Boston is one of those r- those races for me, and this is why I like doing it.
There's always that, that sort of like inner motivation that comes from this being your hometown race, this being like your turf that you're trying to defend.
And, um, that, I think that's why I've always done significantly better than what I'm typically ranked in going in. And I've always, you know, raced well there because I feel that sort of that hometown, uh, feeling.
But, um, being there at a time when, you know, when Meb won, when there were, there were so many Americans i- in the top 20 that year, uh, it was just such a, such a fun, uh, experience.
Uh, and, and it, it was actually was a pretty warm day too. I, I think it was close to, it was close to like 71 degrees at the finish, which is warmer day for the marathon.
But, uh, it just, it, it, it was a lot of fun to just be part of that.
And, uh, I see Meb at, at least usually once a year, um, you know, when he comes to Boston and I still, you know, talk to him now and, and remind him of that time and he's, he's, that's something that he really cherish.For someone that's listening and maybe they're lucky enough to be running Boston this year, what, what advice do you have for them?
Um, all right. So don't-- [laughs] The, the downhills- [laughs] First 5K, don't rip it. Yes. The, the downhills are real. Um, so it's really fast that, that first five mile. Um, stay as relaxed as you can. Um, my,
my training partner, coach and mentor, Nate Jenkins, would usually say, "When you are racing the marathon up to 10 miles, you wanna basically not think about anything, like the race hasn't even started."
And, uh, that's always kinda-- that's something that I always think about, you know, every marathon that I go into. Don't do math, don't think about anything, just like, just go and, and run.
And the race really doesn't start for me, typically, like once I see the half marathon point, then I'm like, "All right, now we gotta really start racing." And, um,
now there are tables that actually show you if your goal pace is to finish, you know, um, X amount in one race, it, it actually shows you a mile by a mile of where you should be at, for example, at the Heartbreak Hills.
You know, we know the Heartbreak Hills are gonna be really tough, but, um, you don't need to actually run them fast. You're, you're expected to slow down. I mean, it's a hill, right? You can't...
And, and it's trying to balance, like what is the right dosage of effort do I put in, um, that, that is equivalent to what, uh, the pace that I wanna-- that I would run on a flat, you know, um, flat mile.
And having the, the, the confidence to say, "You're going to slow down by this much" i-is helpful, right? Um, but during those moments,
I've always told myself, no matter how much I'm slowing down, but really work on trying to really maintain your form.
Because once you come off the hills, you can, you can really, uh, pick up people and you can do a lot of damage after that. Yeah.
As far as, you know, weather, just really being, being-- be ready for anything because Boston can be, can be rainy, can be snowy, it can be windy. Um, you know, it can, it can be all this different weather.
If you can stomach, uh, taking gels and fluids early on, take them early on. Don't wait, don't wait until you're completely, uh, depleted to take them, uh, 'cause it, it comes back to haunt you. Definitely.
Well, I can't wait to get out there this year. Such a fun weekend every year. And, uh, Ruben, thanks for, thanks for the chat today.
And, uh, and, and as mentioned, if, if you're, uh, part of a brand that's wanting to be involved with Ruben and his journey ahead of, uh, LA 2028, hit me up at jon@forthelong.run or shoot me a note if you have random other thoughts [laughs] about anything that is running related or, or not.
But, um, yeah, Ruben, appreciate the chat and, uh, we'll see you out there. Where can, where can we find you if someone wants- Um... to follow along with, with your journey? Yeah, no, thanks, Jonathan.
I appreciate you having me on the podcast. Um, I'm on Instagram where I post a lot of mostly related to, uh, to running, but I'm also on Strava.
So on Instagram, uh, RubenPSalsa, that's my, um, my handle there if you wanna follow.
Or just, just, you know, follow all of my training is on Strava day by day, month by month, and you can see all, uh, all my activities. I'm trying to do a better job of actually recording this journey. I'm super excited.
I have a, a spring, uh, racing season that I'm kind of like halfway through, and then after that I'll plan out a fall racing season too. Highly recommend following Ruben on, uh, Strava in particular.
It's very fun to see how fast he is and the workouts and the, the, the time it takes him to run 10 or 12 miles. It's, uh, [laughs] it's worth a follow. Thanks, Jonathan. I appreciate it. Of course. Likewise.
That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs with friends, it's sad when it has to end. Join us next time as we continue to share inspiring stories from the running community.
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or training partner who you think would like it too.
This podcast was produced by Emma Benner of Sandy Boy Productions with musical composition by Brian Walters of Singletrack Sound. Thank you for your support and we'll see you out there. [outro music]