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[upbeat music] I feel like I have a lot of purpose with running. The best things in my life are all running related. Going to school, meeting my fiance, having the best friendships, like getting a job.

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These are all running related things. Like, I don't know that I could even think of a thing that's been a huge positive in my life that didn't evolve from running, other than like my family. So I owe it a lot.

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Welcome to For The Long Run. We explore the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong, and motivated, and how they've been able to achieve sustainable excellence.

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I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt, and we're so glad you're here. This episode is brought to you by Precision Fuel and Hydration. Spring race season is here, which means a lot of you are moving from training into race mode.

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Precision cuts through the noise with three simple dials: carbs, fluid, and sodium. Their gels and chews have powered thousands of miles for me the last couple of years, and I'd love to hear how it works for you, too.

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Head to visit.pfandh.com/fortherun and take 15% off your order. Make sure to select For The Long Run when they ask about how you heard about them. This episode is brought to you by Tifosi Optics.

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I wanna take a second before I get into this, because Tifosi is kicking off their third year as a partner on For The Long Run, and that means something to me.

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Partnerships like this don't happen without an audience that actually engages. So if you've ever clicked onto their site and tried a pair of sunglasses, thank you. That's what keeps great brands coming back.

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And Tifosi has invested a lot in this show. In return, what I've seen is that the people listening genuinely love the product.

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I've been able to hand pairs out at local events, share them with podcast guests when we're together in person, and the reaction is always the same. People put them on, and they love them immediately.

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I wear Tifosi on every run, in the sun, when it's cloudy, when it's snowing. Whatever the conditions, there's a lens meant for that, and I use their prescription option, too.

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Getting prescription sports eyewear that actually performs has always been kind of a hassle, but Tifosi made the process surprisingly simple.

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You submit your prescription online, they handle everything, and you end up with sunglasses built for running that you can actually see out of. Fast turnaround, no headaches, and they look great.

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If you've been curious, now's a great time to try them. Head to tifosoptics.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off. That's tifosoptics.com with code FTLR2026 to tell them I sent you. And welcome back.

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We have Dan Green joining from Marinwood. We're here at the Big Alta. Dan ran the 50K yesterday. We're gonna talk about running. Dan, thanks for taking some time to chat. Hey. Always down to talk about some running.

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Wanna talk about running? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. All right, who's Dan? Who's Dan? Who's Dan? Tough one right off the jump. Dude. Dan, Daniel Edward Green, uh, full name. We're going formal. Yeah, you know.

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I'm a runner. I'm a, I'm a trail athlete for Solomon. I'm newly engaged to my fiancee Sydney. Grateful for my ability to just be able to run. Somehow we luck out, found ourself here. How did running enter your life?

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I started running in high school, as a lot of people would, I guess. So ninth grade, um, 2012, 2013. Actually, the reason I started running was, uh, some friends of my brother's in high school were like...

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We were, in high school you have, like, those weird meetings where it's like beginning of the year, you go in the auditorium and it's like basketball sits here, football sits here, swimming sits here, whatever sits here.

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And up until that point, I had played football and swam a little, and I was in the football thing. And my brother's buddies came down and were like, "What are you doing, dude? You're, you're not good at football."

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And I was like, "You're right." [laughs] And so then I went up with the cross country guys, and from then on I've been running. At what point did you realize you were, like, pretty good at it? Uh-

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Or, or ha- I don't know... have you, have you realized? I don't know. I don't think I'm that good. I mean, really, I definitely wasn't that good in high school. Um, I loved cross country.

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I was just good enough, I think, to be able to go to school and run at a, on a team, and I think

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a lot of that is mostly because the college I went to didn't have a men's track, so it's, like, not very attractive to a super high caliber athlete, 'cause it's like, well, it's kind of useless to go here, 'cause I can't even run track.

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But for me, I was like, well, I like cross country more. I'm better at it, and I get to go here and kind of get a better scholarship, because, like, there's no track team. But for me, that was, like, a plus.

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I guess then, when that actually happened and someone was like, "Yeah, we can actually pay for, like, most of your school, uh, this way," and then by the end it was like, "Your school is actually, like, paid for for most of it with-" From running...

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just running. Yeah. And I'm like, "Well, that's, I, I must not be that bad." [laughs] I'm not the greatest in the world, but I'm like, you know, at least I, you know, it, it does something. Uh.

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And when did trail and ultra come into the picture for you? Trail and ultra running, it's always been something I wanted to do.

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So I had a, a, like, a mentor in high school who had kind of introduced us to ultra, just as, like, a thought kind of experiment, just like, "Hey, here's something to think about."

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Um, not because he ran ultras, but just because it was, like, interesting. Yep. And, um, t- ever since then I was like, "That sounds great." Like, I'm just the classic someone who just loves running.

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Like, if I could just run three times a day every day, that would be, like, my ideal life. Um, so realizing early on that y- there's things where you can just run as much- For days on end...

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as mu- yeah, days on end, as much as you want, uh, that was super enticing.

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Kind of sucked, though, 'cause it was like I wanted to do that [laughs] early, but then it's like, well, you kind of got to do high school and college running, and then you can do that after you're done with that, even though some people skip the college part.

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But yeah, early on, man, I was like, "Dude, I wanna run far." [laughs] At what point did you realize that things like multi-day events existed?

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I mean, I knew, like, indoor stuff in- existed, like, multi-day indoor track races existed.

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I know that's been going on for so, so long and at first I kind of thought that's what I would be doing, was like- How come?Just 'cause I thought that's what there was That was the only thing?

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And then I was kind of anti-trail for a long time in college, 'cause I was like, I was the guy on the team who was like, "You better not be-- I better not hear about you running on trail or, like, going skiing, because I'm gonna be pissed, 'cause, like, you're gonna get hurt and not be able to run cross-country or track."

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So-- And that changed obviously, [chuckles] 'cause now I'm like, "Dude, we should definitely be running a lot of trails." But

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yeah, s- When, when did that shift happen when you were like, "Hey, trails are a thing, uh, that I wanna be a part of instead of [chuckles]-" Soon as you're out of college. Yeah.

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Uh, so as soon as I was done with college, and I was just working at the running shop, and, you know, you see a lot of trail runners come in to get shoes, and you talk to them.

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And some of the people that work there, you know, or own the place, like, definitely ran a lot of trails. And, um, it's kind of a small trail running community in West Virginia.

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It's, like, essentially the community that would be around, like, one-- Like, Marinwood trail running is probably, like, the same size as all of West Virginia trail running. So, like, you know, it's pretty tight-knit.

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You hear a lot of stories. You, like, wanna go do stuff and, uh, yeah, I just had the right people at the right time, like, influence me. So you started doing it.

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You did some longer distance racing, and you had some pretty good success early on. What were those first events like when you went further or longer than you ever had before?

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Uh, I mean, the first ultra I ever did was a 24-hour race around, like, a-- It was, like, a two-mile loop around a flood wall, and that was pretty rough. But I remember- What made it rough?

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It's, like, an asphalt loop, a concrete asphalt, and so it's just, like, really-- I wasn't prepared for it, but my mindset was like, "Okay, I'm just gonna run until I can't walk or stand, just to, like, get a baseline," which is definitely terrible advice, but

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I did that, and I was like, "Holy shit," like, "Okay, we can go pretty far. That's cool." Um, but the first, like,

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competitive race, I guess, or race I actually did well at probably would be, like, the first time I did Black Canyon was decent. I got 10th.

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And then, uh, doing Javelina for the first time and getting, like, fourth there, I was super happy with that.

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Those are both pretty competitive races, and top 10 or top five, pretty good for a initial, um, foray into the sport. What, what did you think was possible at the time? Were you even thinking professional?

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Like, did you wanna be a pro runner? Uh, I mean, that's always, like, on the back of your mind, but it just seems so unrealistic.

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It didn't seem achievable for me, so I kinda was like, you don't wanna think about it too much. It's like I tell people sometimes, like, I think some people set goals, like, that are just ridiculous.

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I get setting big goals, but I'm also, like, anti-big goals, 'cause I'm-- You gotta be realistic. You gotta set realistically large goals. And so sometimes it's...

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You know, I-- Even after getting fourth at Javelina the first time, I was like, "I'm still not sure." But then I was able to go back the next year and get third, and I was like, "Okay, that's pretty good."

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I think that was probably-- So 2024 is probably when I thought, like, "Okay, maybe I could, like, work this." Like, we're beating some, like, sponsored athletes. Um,

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so I think given the right time and place, the right race, like, I think we could make it work. What was the framework for goal-setting at that time? And, and I wanna talk more about the, like,

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you said that you both do and don't love the idea of setting big, crazy goals.

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I've talked with a bunch of people on this show about the concept of, like, if you wanna be a pro runner and that's all you focus on, it's unlikely that you'll end up getting sponsored, 'cause you're gonna, like, squeeze the, squeeze the egg too hard, and it's gonna, it's gonna break.

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Sure. How did you think about, okay, you went and you came in fourth, then you came in third. Like, how did you think about progression and, and where to go from there?

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When you have results that are good, like, you can't-- You don't wanna become complacent. I mean, you gotta just...

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Still, I think, even still then, like, yeah, I thought, "Okay, maybe this is more possible," but then it's, like, also I'm still just gonna keep doing what I do, and doing things that excite me, too.

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I think that's another thing, like, you do have to go to the races that matter, but also you still wanna do things that are fun- Yeah... um, or things that excite you.

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Otherwise, it's like ne- that's never gonna-- That formula never works.

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So I think just continuing to be yourself, and that's the best-- Especially in today's world, I think, you know, being yourself, being a real person, being a relatable human being as well as an athlete is, like, huge.

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Um, and so just being yourself and doing the best you can do at these races. [chuckles] Like, it sounds, like, super cliché or whatever, but, uh, it's the truth. Really all you can do. Yeah. Yeah. Just be yourself.

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Be a normal person. Like, don't be-- Don't try to, like, put on a show. Uh... When did, when did the multi-day and races like Cocodona come into the picture for you? Um- Or, or why did they- Yeah...

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come into the picture? I think that just kinda relates back to just wanting to run as much as possible. Yeah. Like, just being a guy that just loves running.

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So, like, oh, if I can go run-- If the race is twice as long, it should be [chuckles] twice as fun. So- [laughs] Does that math work? Yeah, dude. It's 100%. And so, yeah, knowing that that existed and then

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I'd wanted to do that Coco- I'd wanted to do Cocodona or Ray200, mostly Cocodona, probably three years ago, and then it was kinda like, "Well, don't do that. I shouldn't probably do it."

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Like, people that I trusted, and, and I think they were right probably, too. Like, "Oh, wait a little bit." Like, "Don't do that now." Like, "Wait a couple years."

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And then the really thing that set me off there is, like, I'm like, "Dude, I'm tired of, like, just wait. Like, why would I not just do what I wanna do now?" Yeah.

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And so I was like, "Screw it, I'm just gonna do it this next year."

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And I was lucky enough to go out the previous year, so 2024-And crew my buddy Ryan, and pace him for a lot of it, and it was just awesome for him, and it really solidified my choice of do- wanting to do it the following year.

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And so, yeah, went out and did it, and it went as good as it could've gone. You're standing on a start line of a 250-mile race. What's going through your head? Stay calm, dude. It's j- not a whole lot. Uh,

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pretty simple there. I mean, you don't wanna think about too much when you're about to run for, like, two days straight, so not really thinking about a whole lot.

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I know that's, like, a terrible answer, but- But how do you bre- how do you break it down, right? It's all about chunking. It's all about putting it into perspective. Yeah.

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Uh, f- I think for me, like, the, the way I broke down Cocodona was, like, how, at least in the training leading up to it, I was like, okay, usually, like, for smaller races, okay, can I run a half-marathon easily?

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And you're like, okay, if I can run a half mar- if I can run 18 miles easy, I can run a marathon. And so for me, it was- Half-marathon's 13 miles. Yeah. I'm just [laughs]-- It...

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But for, for me, I mean, I guess training for a marathon. Yeah, yeah. Usually, a lot of people will do, like, a couple weeks out, they'll run an 18-mile long run. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's, like, the- You're good.

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They're like, "Okay, we're good You're doing far enough. Yeah...

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So for me, that looked like 100-miler, so I'd, was like, okay, I'm gonna get fit enough to where I can run 100-miler in, like, decent time, and it be, like, totally easy, and I can just resume training the next week.

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Like, if I'm not able to do that, then 200 is not gonna be... I might finish, but it's not gonna be enjoyable, and we're not gonna be competitive. And so I was able to train enough, um,

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l- somehow, did the right things, and I did 100-miler up in Pennsylvania, uh, like, a month and a half out from the race. It was pretty easy.

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I mean, it was like we-- I think I ran 17 hours in, like, a bunch of mud, and it was, like, simple. It was, like, pretty easy, and I was like, "Well, okay, that's a good sign."

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A lot of people that listen to this show run marathons, or they have dabbled in ultra, or they run ultras. Sure. Um, this isn't Distance Empty. We're not generally talking about 200, so I think- Yeah [laughs]...

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a lot of people are, like, really cur- myself included, like, curious, like, what is it, what is it like to be on day two of a race and [laughs] not, not be done yet? Yeah.

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It's weird 'cause, I mean, if you've ran 100, there's always, like, that weird moment where you're 40 miles in. It's long enough that you feel it, but then you know you have more than what you've ran left. Right.

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And so that's a weird thing to feel when you're, like, 120 miles in, and you know you have further than you ran left. It's kind of, like, a weird- You've already seen two sunrises. Yeah.

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And you're like, "Hmm, that's odd. I have more than I have ran left, but I'm 120 miles in." But that goes back to, like, how I thought in the beginning, like, you just really cannot overthink that.

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It is, like, if anything, the longer you run, the more simple you have to be. 'Cause it's just food in- It's just eating and moving... take steps.

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This episode is sponsored by Boulderthon, and if you're mapping out your 2026 road race season, this one deserves an early spot on the calendar. Boulderthon is more than a single race.

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With a 5K, 10K, half, and full marathon, and kids races, it's an ideal weekend whether you're hunting a PR or towing the start line for the very first time. Use code FTLR2026 to take $20 off your half or full marathon.

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And the fun doesn't stop at the finish line. The whole weekend is a big celebration of running, Colorado, and truly great humans. You won't wanna miss it.

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Visit boulderthon.org to register and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off. Huge thanks to Boulderthon for putting together such a fantastic community event.

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Quick heads-up: if you wanna support the show, we've got paid subscriptions at $8 a month, or $96 for the year. If you go annual, you'll get a For The Long run hat while they last, plus some goodies from our partners.

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It helps us invest in higher quality production and rely less on ads so we can keep the show focused on the conversations you care about. Check it out at forthelong.run/subscribe, and thanks for listening.

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How has this made you better in other pr- parts of life? Or has it made you better in other parts of life? Running and ultra in general, or- Yeah... I feel like I'm happier.

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It's nice now 'cause it's, like, validating as far as, like, working with a brand. I know it's, like, shouldn't be about that, but when you spend as much time as I was spending training and stuff, um,

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it's nice to, like, go to a race and, like, have a good result. Um, so that's cool. So it makes you pretty happy just in general. But, uh, I feel like I have a lot of purpose with running.

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Like, I, I find myself, like, talking, like, all of the best things that's happened to me, I will tell people, "The best things in my life are all running related."

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Like, going to school, meeting my fiancée, like, having the best friendships, like, getting a job. Like, these are all running related things. Like, I honestly don't have--

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I don't know that I can even think of a thing that's been a huge positive in my life that didn't evolve from running, other than, like, my family. Um, so I owe it a lot. Uh, it does that for me.

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What's been the journey of becoming a sponsored athlete? Like, like, we went on a run today, and a bunch of people recognized you, and they were stoked to see you, and you were stoked to see them. Yeah.

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Like, what's, what's that been like? Uh, I mean, that's weird.

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It's cool, though, like, 'cause I like going to places, and, like, talking to people, and doing stuff, and, like, running with whoever, and so that's nice 'cause you can always find someone to run with, which is cool.

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Um, but the journey there is kinda weird. Like, there's no-- The weird thing with f- trail running, at least for now, and it probably will change, but, like, there's no beat, there's no G League, there's no minor league.

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There's no- You're in or you're out... there's no, like, whatever. You're either just spending a bunch of money and going to races, or you're a sponsored athlete.

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There's, like, no-- Or you're, like, an ambassador, which is, like, in between.

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But yeah, it's, there's no-- It's a weird, it's a weird one, and for me, it was even tougher just-Being from the East Coast, it's like you're not as connected, you're not as linked into these, like, groups and these people, and, like,

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you don't know the right people, you know? And so that makes it even a little more difficult, 'cause sometimes it comes down to... It doesn't, I mean- It's who you know. I mean- Yeah, it's who you know, to an extent...

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the ability- Not-... the ability to talk about you in a room that you're not in. Yeah. Not entirely, but, like, it doesn't hurt. Right.

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Um, and so, kind of being disconnected on the East, and, like, especially in West Virginia, like,

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uh, to be honest, I didn't think it was even possible, 'cause I thought even if I had great results, like, I didn't know that it would even be possible living there.

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Like, I thought people wouldn't even care just because I lived there. What do you think did it, though? Uh, I mean, Cocodona. I think Cocodona, and just being able to be on that live stream and have, like,

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you know, enough time to, like, show who I am, and, like, be able to express myself in that, on that race, and, like, do my, do what I like to do. I think that had a huge part.

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And, um, you know, maybe having, especially being around, like, having some of the right people in the right places be like, "Hey, have you heard about this guy, like, just did this race, like, and won?"

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And I think that helps a lot, too. Like I said, like, knowing some right people and- What about on the media side of things, and, and social? That's what I mean. Yeah.

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Like, where, where Cocodona was so big, and it was such a long live-streamed event, like, people got to know you, and, like, see you, and, like, uh, just connect

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with however you would connect [laughs] with someone on a live stream. But, um, so... And yeah, a lot of people saw that race, and I think that was huge.

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When you think about the impact that you wanna have on the sport, have you, have you thought about the impact you wanna have on the sport?

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What's the, what's, what's the Dan Green [laughs] approach to, you know- Oh, man... boom, I stamped my name on that, uh, and I'm really proud of it? Uh, I mean, I just wanna keep things, like, fun, authentic.

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But fun kinda make this sound, like, stupid- No, but it's fun... in a way, but, like, just authentic and just, you know, you can be yourself. Like, you can be weird, you can be like- Yeah...

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whatever, and you can still go perform. And we have people in the sport that are like that, and, and I kind of will associate with people like that more so.

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But, like, just being yourself, and, like, being relatable, and it doesn't mean you don't- Take it seriously... show up to the start line like, "I'm ready to, like, try to win, or try to run as best as I can here today".

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But you can still have fun. Like, you can still talk to people on course. You can high-five everyone on the course. Like, giving someone a high five on an out-and-back does not slow you down.

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I mean, you came out of the, the- It makes you look like a jerk. [laughs] You, you came out of the, the, um, the start line high-fiving- Yeah, dude... people right from the jump.

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It takes no extra energy to s- fricking do some high-fives on the way out of the corral. Like, but it's fun.

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And especially if, like, people are there, and, like, if for some reason they know who I am, and they, like, have been following my journey at all, and they're, like, psyched to see me there, you know, hopefully I made a couple people's day, like, talking to them or giving them a high five or- Whoever jumps in the size 12 demo shoes.

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Yeah, dude. Whoever jumps in the demo shoes- [laughs]... I wore for that race, dude, shout-out size 12, 12 and a half. Uh, we know what's up.

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But yeah, dude, like, just doing stuff like that, like, it takes so little energy, and, uh, I just think it makes a big impact. It's clear.

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So, we've been here at, um, uh, Big Alta f- with Solomon for this weekend, and it's clear you're just, like, having fun. And there's, th- there's, maybe there's intentionality around it, maybe not.

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It, maybe it's, like, really who you are to your core. And, like, that's infectious, and that's, like, people wanna be around that. People wanna be associated with that. People wanna watch that.

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I'm dying for you to, like- It's crazy... do a, like a, a long-form podcast on a regular basis, um, with Rachel Trenkan. That, I feel like that would be- Yeah... hilarious. Um- I've talked with her some.

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We, I think that would be an interesting pod. I think that would be, like, one of the best and- Yeah... and most ridiculous podcasts that could exist.

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I mean, look at what, like, Kara Goucher and Des Linden have done, and they- Mm... knew each other kind of, and they hit it off, and now they do a podcast once a week. And- Yeah... like, they've been able to...

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Kara hasn't run competitively in years, and Des is gra- graduating to trails. Um, and they've both been able to stay, like, extremely relevant, and Kara just signed a three-year deal with Brooks- Yeah...

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as a athlete ambassador, um, at, I think she's 47 years old. Yeah, something like- So she's, like, still crushing... I think that's sick. Yeah.

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Um, so how do you think about, like, that side of the media, and that side of the sport that's not the performance side, but the, like, showing up? Like your personal brand? Yeah, the personal brand.

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Yeah, I think it's really important. I mean, especially as an athlete, I mean, you kind of, you can't complain about the way things are unless you're trying to make a difference.

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So, like, I don't have a huge media presence, social media presence, but, you know, me and my buddies have Barga Boys Media. We do some YouTube videos. We do some podcasts on there.

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And control what you, not control what you control, but, like, put out what you wanna put out, you know? Put out what you wanna see, and that's kind of, hopefully that,

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you know, goes further, you know, actually does something. But you can't really- It's differentiation... you gotta, yeah. Yeah. And you, I guess as far as personal brand's concerned, like,

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it does come down to that to an extent. It's like, well, what makes you more attractive to a brand, or a deal, or what have you? Um- It's like the intangibles. Yeah.

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It's, it, so you gotta, like, kinda foster that a little bit, and I think it goes back to just being authentic, and, like, you don't want your brand to not be...

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The brand that you're s- you're selling or you're showing people, you don't want that to be not who you are. Right. And so you gotta make sure you're...

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authentic and the brand that you're selling, and then the person who you are. Like, those two things should be the same. How do you think about that and the interaction of, like, your goal is to perform and to win races?

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And so is there, like, a risk of over-focusing on one or the other? Is it really congruent and kinda overlaps with each other well, or is it, like, not hard for you to do both? Yeah.

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I mean, like I said, I don't do a ton of media stuff or social media stuff, so for me it- that- it's like a non-issue.

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It's like whatever's out there, whatever we put out there, like, it's takes little to no effort from me. Um, and I think people enjoy that too. Yeah.

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It's like the less polished a media source is, that's kind of super on brand with trail running, and I hope that it stays like that. Um, I hate, like, a freaking super gimmicky, like, video about something- Yeah...

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for some reason. I'd rather just someone, like, take their crappy camera and like... You have nice cameras, but- [laughs] And you need those.

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But, like, I'd rather someone, like, take their crappy phone and be like, "Dude, this is what we're doing today." Like- Day in the life... check out these shoes. Yeah. They're freaking sick.

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And then you just, like, rip down a trail, and like, they work good. And you're like, "Dude, that's it." And if someone watches that and they're like, "This seems real," you know? Yeah.

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Um, okay, so you lined up for the 50K- Yeah... a couple of days ago. Yes- was that yesterday? Yeah. Wow, time moves slow and fast at the same time. [laughs] Um, normally you're, you're going a little further, right?

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What was it like to- Mm-hmm... to line up against some fast dudes and, and see where the legs are at? Yeah, it's, it was, it was cool. So this year I d- started out with two 50Ks.

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So I did Cabin Fever, which is a 50K in West Virginia where I live, and then just yesterday, like you said, Big Alta 50K. And I think it's a great way to start the year, for me at least, 'cause it's kind of...

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Like I s- I have a little heel issue I've been dealing with, but it's getting better.

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And, um, it's like a safe way to kinda get the stimulus that you need, uh, like a racing format and, like, getting to race people, and it's fun.

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Like, for me, I feel the pressure of, like, wanting to perform internally, but then also I have a little less pressure 'cause I'm like not a 50K guy. But you kinda gotta be if you're running fast 100s and stuff.

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But, like, I don't, like, pride myself on running a 50K. I think it's extremely impressive, especially people who can run 50K as like a marathon.

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I think that's, like, insanity, but I just know that that's not where my passion lies. Yeah. My passion's, like, the 100-mile distance, so, like, um, yeah, it's fun 'cause I get to be serious, I get to try to perform.

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But, like, at the end of the day, you know, it wasn't my day yesterday. I got fifth and kinda had some [laughs] cramping and, like, liquid issues. It was really hot. It got really hot, and I ran out of water a lot.

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Mid-90s. I was kept running out of fluids, and that was my fault. But yeah, like the, there's no, like, it's not as... There's not enough pressure, and, like, it's a fun, fun way to, like, exercise the racing- Going-...

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genes... going in the other direction, what guidance do you have for people going up in distance? Like advice? Yeah. I mean, if you're going up in distance, dude, don't, don't sweat it. Don't be worried about it.

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People stress out too much about... 'Cause, I mean, I started and I didn't even do it, the first ultra I did was not a 50K. It's like you can just go do whatever you... I mean, you don't wanna do without no training.

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Yeah. Like, you don't wanna jump into a 100 with no training, but I would say just don't be afraid. Just go for it. Like, I mean, especially if your goal is just to finish. I mean, if you're

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decently in shape, like, you should, and you're, you know, under the age, no s- no shame. If you're, like, under the age of 40, and you're, like, in decent shape, you should be able to finish 100.

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I mean, maybe that's a bold statement, but I'm like, "Dude, you've still got some shape left in you." I'm 35. The longest I've run is 42 miles- You could do 100 miles... in the Grand Canyon. Guaranteed.

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Um, and I've been, like, wa- I've been so cur- I ran a 40-mile race last summer, and it was from, uh, Crested Butte to Aspen, so it was, like, mostly above 11,000 feet.

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We finished with a 3,500-foot drop in, like, four miles, and I crossed the finish line, and my friends were like, "You could've run 50 today." I was like, "Not with the way that that race finished."

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[laughs] Like, I can't do another 10 miles now. I'm, like, literally, like, tremoring- Yeah... in the quad. Well, that's a heinous descent. [laughs] Off Aspen Mountain. Yeah.

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Um, but I've been, like, so curious, but, like, something is holding me back in just, like, committing to, to doing- I guess that's-... to doing it...

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what, I guess that's, maybe I say that in a less artistic way, but just having the confidence to commit to the distance. Yeah. And once you've committed, you're gonna feel better about it. Yeah.

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And I guess that's what I mean. Like, if you're, if nothing's wrong with you, and you're able to put in consistent mileage- I'm just, like, I'm curious. Yeah. I wanna know.

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I mean, all you got, if all you're doing is finishing and you're just moving, like, you should be able to... I mean, like- Yeah... you just don't wanna be afraid of it 'cause then you're gonna overanalyze the everything.

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And, like, the issue with that is in 100 there's so many different cy- like, for a lot, like, first couple 100s people will do sometimes, like, they experience so many different cycles of the race.

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Like, you feel good, you feel bad, you feel good, you feel bad, you feel okay.

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And just having the confidence to, like, when you get to that time when you feel really shit, you know that, like, in three miles, like- It could be different... it's gonna be different.

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Like, you're gonna feel different probably in a couple miles. Yeah. You know? And so just having the confidence to, like, push through that little extra piece, that, like, little bit of

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unknown, and then you're gonna be, like, totally fine on the other end. What is it about that, like, exploration of un- the unknown that, that fires you up?I mean, it's just like- Living... wanting to run, dude. Yeah.

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Wanting to run, and it's, uh, it's just, like, fun pushing yourself, and you feel...

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Like, for me, I feel a lot of, like, utility and purpose running as far as physically, but then also, like, mentally, for my mental health, and then also just, like, in the community, like, so pushing myself, I feel like I'm, you know,

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if I can get someone else hyped up about whatever they're doing because of what I'm doing, that's, like, awesome. That's best-case scenario. Yeah.

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I feel like that's the-- There's so much power in that, and, like, does that help you push harder when things get hard, knowing, like, someone's out there watching you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

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I feel a little bit of that pressure. Yeah. Um, and I'm fine with that. I'm just like, I'm sitting here, I'm like- Just gotta take it... I'm, like, about to commit to, to doing the thing. We could sign up right now.

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[laughs] Ultra Sign Up has a nice mobile f- It's good on a mobile phone. [laughs] What race do you recommend? I, so I love, I love, like, runnable mountain, mountain-y stuff- Yeah... in the west.

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So you're at-- Are, you live at altitude? I live in Boulder, yeah. Okay, so yeah, you're pretty much good for anything. You know, a cool, a cool 100 that I had looked at for a long time was Ring the Springs.

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In Colorado Springs? Uh-huh. It's, like, not a ton of gain, but it's probably at altitude-ish. Yeah. But that looks like a cool race. I'm go- I'm, like, curious about the 50 and 100K distance before- Mm...

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like, going all in. Oh. I mean, dude, there's like- A million of them. There's too many. Yeah. I don't even know about any out there. I'll take a look. I'll br- I'll be browsing Ultra Sign Up tonight. Yeah.

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I would say m-maybe not do something that has a ton of gain at first. Yeah. But you, if you're familiar with that, then it's okay. Yeah, I mean, the race last year was, like, uh, 7,040 miles. Okay.

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That was- That's basically what we did yesterday. It's like 7,030- Yeah... one. Yeah. It's- A lot above 11K, which was fun. Yeah. Um, let's jump, uh, jump back to Salomon. Yeah. Uh, what, what's the,

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people are often curious about the dynamic of working with a brand. How much influence do you have on, like, what's going on your feet, and the, the feedback that the team gets to hear from your experience in the shoes?

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And you work at a running store. What's the, or you've worked at a running store, what's the- Yeah... um, what does that relationship look like in terms of the feedback that you're able to give?

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Uh, I mean, yeah, Salomon's been really gracious. I mean, they're super open to athlete insight or feedback.

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If you have issues or problems with product, um, they're extremely open to, like, "Okay, what's the problem you have? Can we fix that quickly?

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Can we fix that with a different product or a different size or a different this?" And then if that's not a fix, then it's like, "Okay, can we alter this piece of product? Like, can we trim this, change that?"

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Like, Salomon's big on, we're really lucky to have, like, a super great program at Annecy and headquarters. They can pretty much make whatever you need to or change whatever you need to ch- get changed.

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Um, so that's cool. I was actually talking with one of the performance guys. Salomon has the new performance team, which has been super great. It's, like, a ton of different resources.

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Once you figure out who you need to talk to, it's super great. Not knowing, when you don't know who you need to talk to- Yeah... it's kinda like- Game of telephone... I don't even know, dude. Yeah.

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It's like you tell one person, they gotta tell two other peop- But then, you know, it just takes time, and you figure out who- Yeah... to talk to.

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But even just yesterday, I was talking with one of the, uh, performance coaches, and I was, we were talking about the race, and I was having some issue on the descents where I was just, my toes just getting absolutely hammered in the Aero Glide.

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And he's like, "Oh, we can talk with Joseph, who's our shoe guy." And I was like, "No, it, I think it's me. Like, I think I just needed to get a 12 and a half instead of a 12." Yeah. And he was like, "Okay, cool."

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But it was, like, that quick to be like, "Oh, we can, like, how do we alter the shoe?" Move in this person. Yeah, how can we, like- Yeah... make this fit your foot better? And so that's really cool.

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Quick heads-up on some events before we go any further. If you're in Boulder for Boulder Boulder, I'm co-hosting two events, and I wanna see you at both.

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Thursday, May 21st, at Scratch Labs Table, a free community shakeout run with Chelsea Sodaro and the Mom Forward movement benefiting For All Mothers.

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We run at 5:30, and then I'm recording a live panel with Chelsea and Kara Goucher right after. Raffle prizes from On, Coros, Rafa, and Wizelle. Registration is free. And on Friday, May 22nd, at Otto & Co.

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on Pearl Street, we're doing Fueling the Long Run, presented by ProBio and For The Long Run. It's real talk on endurance nutrition with trail pro Hillary Allen, pro marathoner Charlie Sweeney, and Dr.

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Mark Bubbs, a performance nutritionist with a background in the Olympics and NBA. Shakeout at 6:30, panel at 7:15. 10 bucks, and it, uh, goes to the Colorado Athletics Project. Otto & Co.

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has an amazing outdoor patio with beautiful views of the mountains. Don't miss it. Links in the show notes with details for both events. Come say hi. [upbeat music] In terms of

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the background you have in the run specialty, what- Mm-hmm... talk more about that, and people are always asking, like, "Oh, what shoe do you recommend? How do, how do I figure that out?" And- Yeah...

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like, my answer is always like, "Go to a run specialty store and- Yeah... try on a bunch of shoes."

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But as someone who, who is in that space, what guidance do you have for someone as they're looking to, to test out shoes?

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Ah, I'd say is if you're looking for a shoe, you don't have-- Your options are essentially endless. Your best bet is to go to your local running shop with the intention to buy, and just let them do their thing.

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I mean, they, that's all they do in there is shoes, and so there's- What are they looking, what are they looking for? I mean, we'll check every-- I mean, it's like, so history of ill- of, uh, illness.

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[laughs] Injuries, I mean, if you're having any injuries. Have you ran before and had problems? Like, what shoes are you using now? What activity are you gonna be using the new shoes for?

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Um-If you're already running, like, what does that look like? Are you running a lot? Are you running a little? Um, what are your, like, goals? Like, where are you running? What races you wanna do?

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And so we take that into, into mind, and, like, the options that we pull out and bring to you, they are the best options for you to pick from.

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And I know it seems ridiculous as the customer, because they're like, "Well, that's not, that can't be right," because online there's 30 different options. And it's like, well, that's the internet.

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This is the store that took all the time to, like, look at you- Curate it... pick you. Yeah. Um, these are the best shoes we brought from the brands that we carry, and, like, literally there's so many options.

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Like, sometimes you just need to go somewhere that has it narrowed down already and just pick a shoe, 'cause a lot of brands are making really good shoes right now. It's, like, not as...

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It's not like one shoe brand is making, like, the best shoes in total. I mean, I don't- no shade towards Solomon. It's like, every brand makes a pretty good shoe. Granted, ours are the best.

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[laughs] But still, it's like- Disclaimer must be added. Yep. Yeah. Whatever. We invented gravel, whatever. Um, but it's just like, just narrow it down, trust their opinion, get the right size. You're gonna be fine.

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Talk to me more about the gravel piece, and the fact that... So I had a, a conversation with Dez Linden on this, and she was like, "John, you live in Boulder.

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You are in the 1% where most people don't have access to these types of trails, you know, right out the front door. The majority of people have gravel roads or dirt roads."

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What, uh, how should the running community be thinking about, um, this category? Uh, I don't... I think you should think of it not as, like, a hard category. It's literally just a shoe- That can fit anything...

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with a mild lug. That's honestly, even if you've been in the shoe game long enough, you look at the bottom of an Aero Glide Gravel, that lug height is sometimes what has been on road shoes.

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So it's not that you can't, you don't, you don't, you, you don't have to only use it on gravel. It runs just as good on the road.

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And so I know we were talking the other night, and it's like, a gravel [laughs] shoe is like, especially if someone comes into the shop and I'm working with them, like, my advice on that category would be,

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"Are you going to run trails? How much are you gonna run trails?" And if you say like, "Oh, once in a while, like, maybe," you're always better off, typically, historically, in a road shoe.

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It's lighter, it's softer, it's more technology, more funding put into the road side of brands. The gravel shoe is, like, that perfect, like, yeah, I might run trails, and it has enough grip for that.

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But if you end up never running trails again, it's still a great road shoe. And so that's, like, why it's a perfect fit for a lot of folks, and you don't need to just run gravel on it.

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I've had plenty of pairs of gravel shoes in recent past that I've just only at, they've only ever seen asphalt. They've never even seen a dirt- Mm... ch- trail. 'Cause it doesn't make a difference.

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You can't really run a... Most trail shoes, like, they don't run on the asphalt good. They're loud, they're hard, um, they just, they're, don't work really well on asphalt.

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But, like, a gravel shoe essentially is just a road shoe. So my advice is, like, if you're gonna be a little bit of trail, or you might not even end up doing it, you might as well get the gravel shoe.

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If you do trail, you'll have a little bit of extra grip, and then if you don't, it doesn't matter. Cool. Yeah.

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When you finished the race yesterday, uh, Dylan called you in by saying, uh, "It's your favorite runner's favorite runner." Who is- What an honor.

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[laughs] Who is, who is, uh, who is your inspiration in, in running right now? I mean, I've always... With a question like this, I've always, you know, referred to, like, I had a really great mentor in high school,

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shout out Lance Pledger, um, who just was himself. He was a runner his whole life, and just did his own thing,

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and really got me into, like, loving running and, like, being able to, like, express myself in it and be the person I am today with running, you know? Uh- What's the, like, makeup of why that was possible?

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What did he instill in you? What he believe? What was it about his belief in you? Uh- There, there are a lot of running coaches that listen to this, so I'm- Yeah... curious about this.

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I mean, he believed in me, but then he also was just, like,

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he was one of those guys that you have those people in your life, especially coaches, where regardless of what they say to you, they just instantly have your respect, and you wanna do good by them.

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Like, you wanna do good. Like, you wanna, like, use your, use the most of yourself at these races and stuff. And that takes a, that's, like, a, that's a God-given talent kind of thing. Yeah.

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Like, people aren't just, you can't just make yourself be like that.

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And yeah, he was just his own person, and, like, very unique, and I'm like, "Dude, if you can be, like, a weird, kooky, like, eccentric old dude, and you've just been essentially, all you've cared about all your whole life has been running, like, and you can make it this long," and, like,

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I'm like, "Dude- You won... you just, you can just be yourself." Yeah. Yeah.

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Like, he's, you just be yourself and, like, find something you're passionate about, and sometimes you don't have answers for why you feel the way you feel about stuff.

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So that's when you know you're probably doing the right thing. Love it. [laughs] Um, last question. For those who are at a race that you're at, what do you love hearing when you're out there?

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What do you want- Like, people to yell at me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, if someone hits me with a, like a, just even just saying, "Dan," or, "Bargain Boys," if someone hits me with a, "Bargain Boys," let's go. Love that.

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Love to hear that. Uh, we love a good West Virginia shout-out. Um, but yeah, really just anything. I'm a sucker for a high five. I'm a sucker for just a yell.

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Like, if you're just gonna scream at the top of your lungs, that's cool. I'm down, 'cause I'll probably reciprocate that. So unless I'm really in the shit box, but hopefully I'm not, so. [laughs] Awesome.

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Uh, Dan, this has been a blast. We've got some dinner to, to get after downstairs. I know, I can hear 'em out there. Yeah, at the, at the- They're hungry... restaurant. Some, some good food, uh, and good drinks.

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So, uh, we'll call it there, and- Word... yeah, appreciate the chat. Yeti. Cool. [upbeat music] That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs with friends, it's sad when it has to end.

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Join us next time as we continue to share inspiring stories from the running community. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or training partner who you think would like it, too.

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This podcast was produced by Emma Benner of Sandy Boy Productions, with musical composition by Brian Walters of Singletrack Sound. Thank you for your support, and we'll see you out there.