[upbeat music] Welcome to the Basic Golf Podcast. I'm Sean Melia. I've got Evan Harmeling on the other line, the 2026 Mass Open champion. Evan, thank you for joining this morning. Yeah.
Thank you, Sean. I'm, I'm, I'm reeling a little bit. Giannis just got traded to the Heat. For people who are listening, that's, uh, [laughs] that just happened.
Early morning podcast, woke up, and Giannis is in h- is in a Heat uniform. I've got no coffee, so it's gonna be... We're, we're, we're ready to roll here, Evan. Nice. Well, I got you covered on the coffee here.
[laughs] But yeah- Um... that's crazy. Yeah, crazy trade. So I, I wanna start just with the, with the Mass Open, and we'll kind of work, we can work backwards from there.
Your second one, you know, I was looking through your scores. You shot 73 and then two 66s. What happened between, what was that? Tuesday and Wednesday that kind of... Did something click for you?
Are you a notoriously, like, slow starter for, for that week? Well, I mean, the first day, I actually played pretty well. The, it was windy, and it played significantly harder, I would say.
I mean, there was this hole, I think it's the fifth hole, this par 3 that I remember we had 226, and I hit 3-wood. It was directly into the wind.
I mean, that, it, I mean, that's like a 270 club for me, and 226 and I hit 3-wood just barely past pin high. I mean, I, I chipped it a little bit, but, I mean, that's the kind of wind that, that we had the first day.
I played with, I played with James Amai, who shot three under that day, and it was hard for me to imagine scores much lower than that. I mean, I don't know if the wind, like, died down slightly in the afternoon, maybe.
But, I mean, that was, that played hard. I actually played really well. I, I, I made a, I made a l- pretty loose bogey in the last hole. I was at, back to even par, and I, I thought I was playing, like, pretty good golf.
Other than playing the par fives not too well, which are very gettable there, I couldn't have played a whole lot better. I mean, I, I think I played the par fives one over, which was not good.
But other than that, I, I played really well. So, no, it was... I mean, I wouldn't say anything really changed. I got, I definitely got a little bit sharper as the, like, after playing a round. I mean, I wasn't,
like, I haven't been practicing a ton, and so some things, some things are really good. But, like, my, my chipping, for instance, I just haven't chipped. I haven't practiced chipping. So,
so anytime I missed a green- You and me both... it just like, I didn't get it up and down.
And so, but, I mean, after like, a day of hitting some chips, getting a different feel, then that started to tighten up a little bit. But no, it wasn't anything too crazy. I mean, it was... Yeah.
I, I actually felt, I felt pretty good about how I played the first round, and it was one of those things where it's like I know where if I... Like, I probably gave three shots back to the field.
Two of those par fives are, like, borderline par fours. And, and so I would say the par on those four par fives are, is one and a half to two under, and I played them one over.
So I figured if I just, if I just kinda play those how I should, um, I was, I was gonna, I was gonna play re- really well the last couple days. Yeah, I mean, I think you start at... So they've got a funny routing.
There are these, you start on 11, and yeah- Yeah... I just looked at your scorecard.
You made, you made three bogeys 11 to 18, and the rest of the tournament you made two bogeys, and one of them you said was kind of a one on the last hole, um, the 10th hole in the first round.
You made one bogey the rest of the way, [laughs] around Oyster Harbors- Yeah... which is, which is pretty good golf. Yeah, I mean, and that's the other thing.
I mean, starting on 11 the first day, like, that's, that's one of the, if, that's probably the hardest tee shot on the course. Uh, it's blind. You got kinda trouble on both sides and dogleg right.
And if the hole is long enough for you... And it, and it was into the wind, so it was, I mean, 440 or 450 into the wind, so you couldn't re... I mean, could've hit 3-wood and had something long in, but
just w- I wasn't gonna do that. So I had to hit driver blind, and you also know, like, if you hit it straight, you're going through. So just a tough tee shot to start the tournament on at, at 7:45 in the morning.
And I mean, I'd played Oyster Harbors once. I played a practice round the week before. But, but, I mean, so I sprayed that thing. Actually, I sprayed it right into the woods.
It got a decent break to, like, stay where I could find it. And, and so it's, it's hard to... I mean, not to mention you're starting on the 11th hole. It just, it felt, it felt a little bit weird. Yeah.
And so that, that con- that contributed to the first round, just starting off on the back foot. But, but, but yeah, I mean, no, I really, I really did kinda tighten it up and made a couple...
I mean, I, I had putted very well the last, definitely the last day. The last two days, I putted well and made a lot of good par saves to keep it, keep it pretty clean. Any, I mean, it's been about two weeks now.
Any, are there any little moments from the week, final round, wh- whatever round that just kinda, like, stand out to you as, "Oh, man, if, if this doesn't go this way, Chris Foustik is winning," or, "I'm in a playoff"?
Any, any shots that stand out to you? I mean, the biggest thing that stands out is that I didn't, I didn't look at the leaderboards. I, like, the, the entire week.
I, my two goals were just to hit, hit the driver as far as I could and, and then I just was, I just wanted to rip driver. And then someone told me...
Actually, what did change the second day is I asked, I, I asked what the course record was. And, and then someone told me that Ken Venturi had shot 65 there, and that's the course record.
And I was like, I mean, that's kinda crazy to me, the fact that Venturi's still, still the course record, uh, 65. And so, so that was my other goal the last two days.
Instead of just focusing, like, on winning or whatever- Things that just weren't gonna help. I was just saying, "Hey, I'm not gonna look at the leaderboard. I'm just gonna try and break the course record." And,
and so that, that, that's the thing that stood out to me. I don't know about certain shots. There was a... It was actually the first day. The first day, I got a good break.
I mean, that, that one on the first hole was a decent break. But anyway, I got a good break on the ninth hole. Was it nine? Yeah, so my second to last hole, I'm even par. I'd got back to even just battling really windy,
huge false front, and y- it rolls back 40 yards and, like, potentially rolls back into this pond if you come up short. And so I landed it short. It's trickling, trickling, trickling, and actually, and stayed up,
which, I mean, that's, it's a 50/50 deal at best. Like, that, that easily could've kept going. And so, so that stayed up. And I ac- I had, I had a thought at that time where,
where it's like that, that is the kind of break that, that I needed in that situation. I mean, that comes back off. I'm dropping. Like, I'm just staring at double. Like, and that's not exactly...
I mean, yeah, maybe I could've made a bogey. But, but staring at double and then, and then you have a really hard par three to finish, to finish the round. Like, that's just, that's the kind of thing where it can slip.
And so, but other than that, there's not too much that, I mean, in terms of individual shots where it's like, "Hey, this could've gone the other way." The biggest thing was just not looking at the leaderboard.
I mean, I, I can think about, about seven or eight putts that I easily could have made. Like, I, I, I was hitting the ball so well the last day. And I mean, I think about the putt on the last hole.
I had probably a seven or eight footer at, yeah, somewhere right there, kind of a downhill. I thought it was gonna snap, and it just, it didn't snap. I hit it a fraction too hard.
But I was thinking about the 65 the whole time, trying to... I mean, at that point, I was trying to tie. And someone did. Was it, was it Chris that shot 65 the last day and, and then- Yeah...
so yeah, so tied the course record. Anyway, that's what I was, that's what I was trying to do. And, uh, I was in pretty good position.
I mean, I shot, I think I shot five under the front nine the second day, or four under, four under on the last day. And so I needed three under on the back. But anyway, it was, that's, that's what stood out.
Are, are you always... The, the leaderboard stuff, do you always avoid the leaderboard, or is this just a choice you made this week of just, "I'm gonna go not worry about it and play golf"?
Try not to, but it's h- it's really hard. It's easier in- Yeah...
easier in the Mass Open when, I mean, if you're playing a Korn Ferry or a tour event, then there are just leaderboards staring you in the face all the time.
And even when I'm trying not to do it, like, you'll just by accident, you'll see it, and then you can see all the numbers. And so it's hard not to.
And it's one thing to glance at it and then just immediately move on, but that's, that's hard too. So, but there's definitely something real to not having numbers and cut line and like, "Oh, I'm..."
It would've made it, for sure would've made it harder if I was, if I saw that Chris had shot 65, 'cause he was, I think, a few groups ahead of me.
Like, those last few holes, if I know someone is in the clubhouse at nine under, if I knew that, uh, if I knew Ryan was, like, nipping at my heels, which I kinda didn't think he was, then,
yeah, then that would've made it harder for sure. I mean, it's just like you're worrying about external things.
And, and you realize, I mean, in hindsight, it's easy, it's easy to realize, wow, like, of course I play better, and of course everything is easier if you're just focused on what you're doing right in front of you.
And, and I, I mean, I did have a result kind of goal in mind, which, that course record, but that's, I think that's a soft enough goal, like a soft enough
result where it's like, hey, like, yeah, I wanna shoot the course record, but it's not, like, I don't really care. Really, that's just like, "Hey, I just need to keep going.
I need to keep going, keep trying to make birdies." And then, but that allows me to just, to stay focused on each shot.
Alexis Florio was on a couple weeks ago, and she was saying in college, she shot, like, a 63, came in, figured she had won the tournament, and someone shot 60, and she was like, "I don't look at leaderboards, and if I had, what would a difference would it have made?
I just played as well as I possibly could, and someone played better than me. I wasn't gonna go find three more shots out there." [laughs] Exactly.
So it is a, it's an interesting dynamic where some people feel like they can maybe control the narrative a little bit and go make birdies, and some people are just like, "I'd rather not know and just play my game and maybe have a, a fun goal."
I see that goal as a fun goal. Like, I'm gonna go see if I can just tie Ken Venturi or- Yeah... steal his record. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think if you're chasing, it's, it's
potentially a good thing if you're chasing to say, "Hey, like, I actually need three or four birdies right now to win the tournament." I- if you're chasing a cut line,
I mean, or if you're anywhere near a cut line, I, it's hard for me to imagine that that's a good thing to look at the leaderboard. I've done it so much, and I, like, I...
I mean, I even right now am, like, tensing up thinking about how often I've seen, been on the cut line, seen where the cut line is, and, and I know how that's affected me. And it's, like, it's harder to make putts.
It's harder to play free. When you make a birdie, then there's a, there's a sense of, like, relief, which is just not what you wanna feel.
It's like, my relief, like, I'm inside the cut line now, or I have one shot to, I have a one-shot cushion now. I mean, that, that's not the mentality. Like, I can promise you that. It's, like,
ideally, you want no, you want, like, there's no relief. There's no nothing. It's just like, uh, we're hitting the next shot. So anyway. I, I completely agree. That's a good segue That's a, that's a good seg-
Yeah That's a good segue to, you won this tournament in 2013, and obviously 13 years have gone by and you've, you've spent a lot of time playing professional golf, trying to win, trying to make cuts, do all of that stuff.
Could you just quickly maybe compare the 2013 win? It was in a playoff. You were 24 years old, a kind of fresh face. Now you're kind of [chuckles] a grizzled vet out on, out on the, on the circuit. What...
Can you compare those two wins, what they k- maybe both mean to you?
And maybe, are, are they, do they f- do they feel different as far as just the, the way you got the wins and where you are in your, in your life and your career? They... I don't know.
I mean, I, I just, I think about playing my buddy Chris Fitzpatrick, who's one of my best friends, in, in the playoff at Woodland in 2013. I mean, in, in some ways it was,
it was similar 'cause, I mean, I'm, I'm buddies with Ryan. We're coming to... I mean, not that I really knew where we stood, but I mean, I'm friends with him as well, and it's just fun
playing against guys that like, I mean, I hung out with Ryan, I hung out with Fitz afterwards, and that's really why, like, that's what, that's what it's all about.
It's fun just to, fun to play a tournament against those guys, but also, like, we're yucking it up after and hanging out. But, but yeah, I mean, it's completely different where I was just, just kinda getting started.
Um, I'd just gotten back. I flew back for that one, 2013. I played my first Canadian tour event, or PGA Tour Canada at the time.
I flew back kind of the day before that tournament and, and so it was, like, I, I, that was my first Canadian tour event, my first kind of major, like, major tour event, and, and then playing the Mass Open.
You know, it was just, everything was fresh and new, and now, and now it's just there are other things. I mean, my, my kids, my family, my job, those, those things are just more important than, [chuckles] than this.
And so it is just a completely different, it's a different feel. I wanna... Let's go, let's go back to, you talked about the Canadian tour. I mean, you've played, looking at your kind of resume, you've, you've,
you've done the, the ladder climb, which is, I think, one of those things that people who follow pro golf, it, it is such a challenging thing to do.
You, you've played, like, Latin America, [chuckles] Canadian tour, almost 100 starts on the Korn Ferry Tour, which is, like, f- you know, the, there's probably 20, 20, 30 events a year on Korn Ferry.
Like, that's, that's a good long time of, of playing golf at that level. Can you just g- like, give people a sense of the, the challenge being on the road?
I, y- I, I mean, Korn Ferry's down in, like, South America at the beginning of the year. There's a lot of travel. You're probably with you and your, maybe your caddie.
Just a sense of, like, what that life is, is like and what you loved about it, what you maybe missed, miss about it a little bit. Yeah. I mean, you got to, you gotta love it, I mean, for one.
Um, you have to love the travel aspect of it because it'll just eat you up if it's, if that's a, if that's a grind, if that part's starts to grind, then, then you're in trouble.
I mean, it's, it's one thing if you're one of these, like, Miles Russell type, type players that is, like, you immediately, like, go onto the tour because you're the best player in the country or something.
And, and people have a tendency to, I, I think, have a tendency to, to zero in on, like, Luke Clinton or Miles Russell or Thorbjorn Olesen. Thorbjorn Olesen.
But I mean, that, that doesn't, I mean, for the, the other thousand guys or 10,000 guys, um, that are, that are trying to do it, yeah, you gotta, you gotta work your way up. And, and so... But I, so the, I mean, what,
what just came up for me, I, so I got Brad Faxon's email when I first started playing, and I emailed him and said, "Hey, like, do you have any advice? I'm, I'm just getting going." And, um, and he said, "Yeah."
He goes, "Pack your bags, go leave home, and go leave home for three months and see if you like it." And at this point, it was probably August of the first summer that I was playing.
And so I emailed back and I was like, "Oh, perfect. That's what I've done the last three months and I love it." [chuckles] So, so yeah, that, I mean...
But that's, now that's the advice that I give to anyone else, 'cause it, it really is, it's the best advice about, like, if you're trying to play pro golf, um, it's like you just gotta go, go leave, and you just go play tournaments constantly.
And, like, there's not gonna be, like, the c- there're not gonna be the comforts of home, playing Monday qualifiers and mini tours and whatever.
And, and if you, if, if you kinda need the comforts of home, then, then pro golf's not for you.
But I will say, I mean, once I had kids, then it, it all changed, where w- it stopped, like, that part about it stopped being, stopped being fun, um, 'cause I had to, I had to leave them, and then they're just feeling guilty, and that made it hard.
But, but I mean, traveling South America was the best. So much fun down there. I mean, it's just amazing places, different cultures, the food. The golf was incredible, um, all the players down there.
So I mean, it's, it's kind of a, like a brotherhood almost with the fact that you're all playing on the Latin American tour or the c- or the, even the Korn Ferry Tour a little bit.
I think it, it is becoming less so this way, but, but certainly C- Canada, Latin America, all the mini tours, like, it's a, a pretty, like, it's a pretty small community.
Everyone kinda knows each other, and people really are pulling for each other in, like, in some way.
Everyone's, everyone's trying to play well, but for themselves, but you're, you're hap- everyone's, like, happy for each other when they play well. And so that's really cool. And I, yeah, I mean- It's...
I'd say the part that I love the most about going to all these new places is just the, it's like, it's just exciting when you kind of go pull into a new course in, like, Quito, Ecuador. And, and it's like they're...
I mean, I'm thinking about Quito, 'cause it's just, like, a, it's a cool entrance to the club. It's like a grand clubhouse.
You're also, you're at, I don't know what it is, 9, 10,000 feet, and so you can get there and you start hitting the ball 350. I mean, 'cause the ball just doesn't stop. And yeah, so, so that part's cool.
And, and just, like, and yeah, I mean, the people down there are awesome. Like, the people down there are s- like, so nice. It's...
That's, that's probably the thing that you, that I think about the most, just thinking of the food and the people. It's a different, it's a different scene. It's just, it's so different.
And, and every week is different from one another. I mean, the, these places that we'd stay, the, like, courses in Honduras and Costa Rica and Panama, it's like such cool golf courses.
And, and then you go to the beach, and then, and then you're, then you're just seeing a s- thousand times different scene in Argentina and Chile. I mean, it's... I was very lucky to, I mean, travel the world.
Is there a golf course that stands out from... You mentioned Quito, but is, is there one, like, course that you really loved playing down there? I think Córdoba, Argentina. It's the course that Ángel grew up caddying on.
Córdoba, it's also where Jorge Fernández Valdés... I don't know if he played that course growing up, but that's where he's from. Jorge's a stud. He's... I mean, I always say that he's got the prettiest swing in golf.
He played, he played on tour, I think, right... I don't even know what he's playing right now. But anyway, Jorge's from Córdoba. Ángel Cabrera is from Córdoba. And this course, this course is so cool.
I mean, it's kind of rolling hills. It's absolute, like, bowling alleys for fairways and tree lines. And, and you, you have to hit... It forces you to hit all shots. Like, you'd have to hit high, low, draw it, cut it.
Like, there are these holes where you just, you pretty much have no choice. And, um,
and if you can't hit those shots, then it's like you're not playing the hole the way that, like, you gotta do something, like, completely different that's gonna put you behind the eight ball. Tiny little greens.
I mean, those are, like, the...
Those are the kind of courses that I like to play, where it's, it's like the, it's the opposite of what you would think of kind of a new, modern course, which is, like, no rough, wide open fairways, huge greens.
I mean, this is, like, tiny little really cool shaped greens. You, you have to, you have to work the ball, and you have to hit the ball straight. And it's just a really cool, cool property, a cool little club.
And, and Córdoba itself is, I mean, is really cool. Like, the best, best steaks I've ever had, hands down, are in Córdoba. And that's, that's what... That place stands out.
I mean, we, we played the Jockey Club in Argentina. I mean, Argentina has probably the strongest golf culture down there. Colombia as well. I mean, there are some real... We played a couple amazing courses in Colombia.
But, but I would say... And then Los Leones in Santiago, Chile, is another old school club that, that is a similar kind of deal, where it's, it's a small little course. It has a bunch of really cool holes.
Like, the 10th hole at Los Leones is this... It's a drivable par. It's 300 yard par 4. Slight dogleg left to an elevated green. And it's one of those ones where it's like, sweet, like I'll...
I mean, nowadays, like, longer hitters can probably three-wood up there. But, like, there's just trouble everywhere. Like, you're dead if you go anywhere long or, like, left.
And if you're, if you go right or short, you got a really tough little chip up the hill.
And just holes like that, that really make you think, where like, yeah, you can make birdie, but you can, you can make bogey or double in a, in a heartbeat. And, and it's, it's 300 yards.
So I, I like that too, 'cause anyone can kinda... Like, anyone can go play that hole. So yeah, those are, that's what comes to mind.
Last thing, 'cause I know, I know you've, you're, you got a, a little bit of a heart out. You mentioned practicing. You've had a very interesting spring. You played [laughs] in the Myrtle Beach Classic.
I ran into you at Berkshire Hills, trying to qualify for US Open at local. You win the Mass Open. You mentioned practicing.
Like, what is your [laughs] what is, what is life like right now for Evan Harmeling, as you're balancing kids, family, you're back up here, uh, but obviously still, like, itching to compete, and, and, like, that part of your life is still, is still going?
I, like, I could not imagine going to a PGA Tour event and feeling like I haven't... I know you maybe haven't had the time to practice like you would like to. So what's that been like this, uh, this spring?
Yeah, I mean, so I, I haven't been practicing like I like to, but I, I've been working with this, with this guy, Sean Hester, at, through the winter at, at the Vanguard, Vanguard Golf Club in Dedham.
It's this new indoor place. And Sean, Sean and I really worked on my driver. And I haven't been practicing like I'd like to, but I have been doing a ton of work on my driver. Like, I do... Now I do mirror work at night.
And not a crazy amount, but for 10 minutes at night, like, I'll, I'll feel, I'll just look in the mirror and feel and see where I need to be.
And, and that's actually, that helped a lot, and actually got me hitting the driver. I mean, that was a huge reason why... I mean, I was just hammering driver out at Oyster Harbors. Huge reason why I won.
And I h- I really haven't been hitting the driver that well for a long time. It's just been kinda piecing it together to keep it in play. And, and so Sean's helped me a ton.
And, and able to do, like, a decent amount of putting indoors as well. So I've been, I've been actually trying to get better in, in real ways. Not maintaining my game probably as well as I, I could, but
But really getting, I mean, getting better at hitting the driver, which is, uh, which is not a quick process either, which is kinda why I haven't done it on tour.
Like, I can't just make these changes and, uh, and just expect to go out and play some, some big tournament. Like, I, I need to do this for, for months before I felt like... Well, before I was able to go do it.
Uh, so, so that's been great. But no, I'm, uh... Now my, my life's looking like corporate outings for, for my job and, and an occasional round with some friends. But,
but no, it's, it's not, not a ton of, uh, I mean, not a ton of golf, and I actually don't have any real- any tournaments on the horizon right now.
But the plan is to keep getting better, keep getting better with, with like the time that I have to put into it and, and then we'll see what happens.
It's amazing how, like, maybe the constriction of time makes you, like you said, focus on, all right, what are, like, very specific things that I want to spend the time I have to work versus, like with anything, oh, I've got all the time in the world, or I've got all day, or I could practice for hours.
And sometimes you just end up practicing and not, like, maybe picking a thing to really practice, um, and you're just almost checking boxes. I noticed- Yeah...
I noticed when you were putting in some Mass, uh, golf videos, your l- left hand, you're a left-hand low putter, but your f- hand, your, you've got like your fingers off the grip a little bit.
My s- my thumbs are off the putter, yeah. I mean, that's, uh, it's something I, I, I saw, like, my guy for putting this, this winter. And I actually went there with a different guy.
He worked with the other guy for about two hours, watched me hit three putts. I mean, he's seen me putt a bunch. But he, he was just like, he's like, "Just take your thumbs off the putter. That'll fix it."
And, and then, and then I've actually, like, I've, I've actually d- messed around with doing this in the past, and it's weird.
So my stroke, normally, like I take it back, and then I reroute it inside and then come straight through and hit it off the toe. That's how I've putted my entire life.
And, and then I, I hit it off the toe, and then I recoil. Like, my, my putting stroke hasn't been that great. Uh, I've kinda managed it. But I mean, if you just like technically, it's not that, it's not very good.
Like, you, number one, you wanna hit it in the center of the face. But it's just crazy. I take my thumbs off the putter, and, like, it forces me to drive the stroke kinda with my body.
And, and also, I don't know why, but it, like, it smooths out the tempo of my stroke. I, I take it back and bring it through on the same arc, and I also can stick my finish.
Like, it, it just fixes a bunch of different things. And that actually did take kind of a few months to get used to, especially with speed. But my speed got way better as well.
When, when my thumb's kinda like, it allows your hands to take over on, in the putting stroke, which I mean, some people, I'm not, I'm not necessarily saying people should do that. But- Sure...
but I mean, for me, it just like, it really solved a bunch of issues in my putting stroke. And, uh, and after, after I got used to that, then I've been putting so much better. So
yeah, I mean, the other thing, the other thing that was interesting is like I've, it became much clearer to me what I needed out of my caddie, which was n- I mean, nothing golf related.
It's all just, like [chuckles] it's all just mentally keeping me, like, keeping me engaged in the right way and j- I mean, having fun, for one. But focusing on, focusing on non-golf stuff in between shots.
Like, I have a tendency to just start overthinking things in between shots, and it really, like, it really hurts the whole situation. It, I mean, yeah.
So I mean, I, I've had a couple caddies lately, I mean, in that Myrtle Beach tournament and then here in the Mass Open, where these guys... I mean, I actually just saw Chris dropping off our kids at school.
He caddied for me in the Mass Open, and I mean, he's probably, I mean, he's not a good 18 handicap. [laughs] I'd say he's more like a, I shouldn't talk smack about him, but he's probably like a 25 handicap.
But I mean, I told him, and I'm just like, "Hey, like, I don't, I don't need you, like, I don't need you talking through shots with me."
What I do need is to him to make sure that I tell him what I'm gonna hit on every shot.
If I verbalize, like, "I am going to, like, start it at this tree, draw it into the flag," like, if I say it out loud and visualize it, I mean, there's a certain element of visualization if, if I say it, then I'm visualizing it.
Like, that's huge. And, and so doing that, I, I mean, I wasn't perfect with it but probably did it on 95% of the shots, and that's, that's massive to...
As opposed to just, like, if you don't say anything, if you don't, like, make it clear what shot you're gonna hit, yeah, maybe I have a clear picture in my mind.
But there are so many shots where if you're just keeping it all inside all the time, there are gonna be some number of shots where you actually don't have a clear picture or there is some indecision as you're walking up to the ball.
And, and at, at that point, you're done. So I'm over it, and I'm like, "Actually, you know what? I'm gonna hit a cut." Like, I, I was just thinking about a straight ball or, or whatever.
[laughs] But no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit a cut, and I'm, like, changing my stance as I'm over the ball, and that... But if you're, if you're clear on what, if I'm clear on what I'm doing, then...
And then, and then also, like, after the shot's done, then I can just talk to him about whatever, about our kids or about school or about his job or... Like, that, that helps to just keep it light. And so,
but it also is hard for me to, like, when I'm on tour and I'm playing all the time, that's, that's really hard for me to justify, like, having a caddie that doesn't know anything about golf.
Like, I, that, even though I kind of knew at the time, I'm like, "Actually, I just need, I need someone that I act- I wanna hang out with."
And even if, even if they have no golf IQ, that doesn't matter That's harder to make that decision if I'm like a tour pro. But if it's just whatever, it's like, "No, this is the best thing for me.
I'm just gonna do that." Then- That's interesting... so that's, yeah. So that's, yeah. That's that. G- good stuff. I'm glad I asked about the thumbs.
John Hill told me also to, to watch the videos, and he's like, "He's, he's got his thumbs off." Yeah.
So- I mean, anything you can do, I mean, as a general rule of thumb with putting, anything you can do to drive- No pun intended. [laughs] Um,
anything you can do to drive the stroke with something other than your hands is a good thing. I mean, if you're...
Yeah, I mean, there, there are some guys that just have great hands, and they're just, they're feeling everything with their hands and... But that happens, that's way less so than...
I mean, there are a lot of people that think they have great hands.
And I mean, and they, yeah, they might make a few putts, and they might actually just jack one 15 feet by because, because they're just whipping their hands at the putter.
And, and they feel like they have great hands, and they can make some putts, which is awesome. You're just not gonna consistently be as good as if you're, as if you're doing it with your body. And I mean, yeah.
Um, taking your hands out of it is, is a good idea. Unless you're, unless you're, like, amongst the very best. And so that's... And I'm, I'm, like, in terms of my hands, I'm, I'm really not.
Like, I'm not amongst the best of... Just, like, I have incredible feel in my hands for, um, in my... So I've, I've needed to do it with my body. So, so yeah.
Well, now everyone, everyone at the corporate outings is gonna watch you, and they're, you're just gonna have a, we're gonna have hundreds of thousands of players putting with, uh, with their thumbs off the grip in the, the rest of the summer.
[laughs] I, I doubt it. Well, Evan, thank you. Thanks a lot for your time. I know, I know I asked you for 30 minutes, and you've, you've given me more, so I appreciate it. And, um- No, this is fun...
I'll have to have you, have you on back, back on again at some point and, and talk about golf courses or whatever else, whatever else pops up. I'd like that. I'm gonna...
I'll check in after I play, play Patriots in, in Bedford. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe go play together. It'd be fun. Let's do that. Awesome. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.
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