WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:17.360
[upbeat music] Welcome to the Basic Golf Podcast. I'm Sean Melia. I've got Evan Harmeling on the other line, the 2026 Mass Open champion. Evan, thank you for joining this morning. Yeah.

2
00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:24.460
Thank you, Sean. I'm, I'm, I'm reeling a little bit. Giannis just got traded to the Heat. For people who are listening, that's, uh, [laughs] that just happened.

3
00:00:24.660 --> 00:00:35.339
Early morning podcast, woke up, and Giannis is in h- is in a Heat uniform. I've got no coffee, so it's gonna be... We're, we're, we're ready to roll here, Evan. Nice. Well, I got you covered on the coffee here.

4
00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:45.520
[laughs] But yeah- Um... that's crazy. Yeah, crazy trade. So I, I wanna start just with the, with the Mass Open, and we'll kind of work, we can work backwards from there.

5
00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:58.980
Your second one, you know, I was looking through your scores. You shot 73 and then two 66s. What happened between, what was that? Tuesday and Wednesday that kind of... Did something click for you?

6
00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:12.000
Are you a notoriously, like, slow starter for, for that week? Well, I mean, the first day, I actually played pretty well. The, it was windy, and it played significantly harder, I would say.

7
00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:25.580
I mean, there was this hole, I think it's the fifth hole, this par 3 that I remember we had 226, and I hit 3-wood. It was directly into the wind.

8
00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:37.670
I mean, that, it, I mean, that's like a 270 club for me, and 226 and I hit 3-wood just barely past pin high. I mean, I, I chipped it a little bit, but, I mean, that's the kind of wind that, that we had the first day.

9
00:01:38.520 --> 00:01:53.700
I played with, I played with James Amai, who shot three under that day, and it was hard for me to imagine scores much lower than that. I mean, I don't know if the wind, like, died down slightly in the afternoon, maybe.

10
00:01:55.020 --> 00:02:06.460
But, I mean, that was, that played hard. I actually played really well. I, I, I made a, I made a l- pretty loose bogey in the last hole. I was at, back to even par, and I, I thought I was playing, like, pretty good golf.

11
00:02:06.520 --> 00:02:15.500
Other than playing the par fives not too well, which are very gettable there, I couldn't have played a whole lot better. I mean, I, I think I played the par fives one over, which was not good.

12
00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:30.300
But other than that, I, I played really well. So, no, it was... I mean, I wouldn't say anything really changed. I got, I definitely got a little bit sharper as the, like, after playing a round. I mean, I wasn't,

13
00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:42.320
like, I haven't been practicing a ton, and so some things, some things are really good. But, like, my, my chipping, for instance, I just haven't chipped. I haven't practiced chipping. So,

14
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:47.200
so anytime I missed a green- You and me both... it just like, I didn't get it up and down.

15
00:02:48.360 --> 00:03:00.600
And so, but, I mean, after like, a day of hitting some chips, getting a different feel, then that started to tighten up a little bit. But no, it wasn't anything too crazy. I mean, it was... Yeah.

16
00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:11.720
I, I actually felt, I felt pretty good about how I played the first round, and it was one of those things where it's like I know where if I... Like, I probably gave three shots back to the field.

17
00:03:11.940 --> 00:03:23.400
Two of those par fives are, like, borderline par fours. And, and so I would say the par on those four par fives are, is one and a half to two under, and I played them one over.

18
00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:34.290
So I figured if I just, if I just kinda play those how I should, um, I was, I was gonna, I was gonna play re- really well the last couple days. Yeah, I mean, I think you start at... So they've got a funny routing.

19
00:03:34.320 --> 00:03:38.880
There are these, you start on 11, and yeah- Yeah... I just looked at your scorecard.

20
00:03:38.920 --> 00:03:49.320
You made, you made three bogeys 11 to 18, and the rest of the tournament you made two bogeys, and one of them you said was kind of a one on the last hole, um, the 10th hole in the first round.

21
00:03:49.410 --> 00:03:55.600
You made one bogey the rest of the way, [laughs] around Oyster Harbors- Yeah... which is, which is pretty good golf. Yeah, I mean, and that's the other thing.

22
00:03:55.660 --> 00:04:06.800
I mean, starting on 11 the first day, like, that's, that's one of the, if, that's probably the hardest tee shot on the course. Uh, it's blind. You got kinda trouble on both sides and dogleg right.

23
00:04:06.880 --> 00:04:18.560
And if the hole is long enough for you... And it, and it was into the wind, so it was, I mean, 440 or 450 into the wind, so you couldn't re... I mean, could've hit 3-wood and had something long in, but

24
00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:32.200
just w- I wasn't gonna do that. So I had to hit driver blind, and you also know, like, if you hit it straight, you're going through. So just a tough tee shot to start the tournament on at, at 7:45 in the morning.

25
00:04:32.380 --> 00:04:42.700
And I mean, I'd played Oyster Harbors once. I played a practice round the week before. But, but, I mean, so I sprayed that thing. Actually, I sprayed it right into the woods.

26
00:04:42.740 --> 00:04:55.530
It got a decent break to, like, stay where I could find it. And, and so it's, it's hard to... I mean, not to mention you're starting on the 11th hole. It just, it felt, it felt a little bit weird. Yeah.

27
00:04:55.540 --> 00:05:07.620
And so that, that con- that contributed to the first round, just starting off on the back foot. But, but, but yeah, I mean, no, I really, I really did kinda tighten it up and made a couple...

28
00:05:07.640 --> 00:05:19.240
I mean, I, I had putted very well the last, definitely the last day. The last two days, I putted well and made a lot of good par saves to keep it, keep it pretty clean. Any, I mean, it's been about two weeks now.

29
00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:33.340
Any, are there any little moments from the week, final round, wh- whatever round that just kinda, like, stand out to you as, "Oh, man, if, if this doesn't go this way, Chris Foustik is winning," or, "I'm in a playoff"?

30
00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:42.120
Any, any shots that stand out to you? I mean, the biggest thing that stands out is that I didn't, I didn't look at the leaderboards. I, like, the, the entire week.

31
00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:52.220
I, my two goals were just to hit, hit the driver as far as I could and, and then I just was, I just wanted to rip driver. And then someone told me...

32
00:05:52.300 --> 00:06:03.720
Actually, what did change the second day is I asked, I, I asked what the course record was. And, and then someone told me that Ken Venturi had shot 65 there, and that's the course record.

33
00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:13.690
And I was like, I mean, that's kinda crazy to me, the fact that Venturi's still, still the course record, uh, 65. And so, so that was my other goal the last two days.

34
00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:24.312
Instead of just focusing, like, on winning or whatever- Things that just weren't gonna help. I was just saying, "Hey, I'm not gonna look at the leaderboard. I'm just gonna try and break the course record." And,

35
00:06:25.252 --> 00:06:35.972
and so that, that, that's the thing that stood out to me. I don't know about certain shots. There was a... It was actually the first day. The first day, I got a good break.

36
00:06:36.132 --> 00:06:49.132
I mean, that, that one on the first hole was a decent break. But anyway, I got a good break on the ninth hole. Was it nine? Yeah, so my second to last hole, I'm even par. I'd got back to even just battling really windy,

37
00:06:50.272 --> 00:07:02.202
huge false front, and y- it rolls back 40 yards and, like, potentially rolls back into this pond if you come up short. And so I landed it short. It's trickling, trickling, trickling, and actually, and stayed up,

38
00:07:03.432 --> 00:07:13.232
which, I mean, that's, it's a 50/50 deal at best. Like, that, that easily could've kept going. And so, so that stayed up. And I ac- I had, I had a thought at that time where,

39
00:07:14.752 --> 00:07:26.252
where it's like that, that is the kind of break that, that I needed in that situation. I mean, that comes back off. I'm dropping. Like, I'm just staring at double. Like, and that's not exactly...

40
00:07:26.672 --> 00:07:37.232
I mean, yeah, maybe I could've made a bogey. But, but staring at double and then, and then you have a really hard par three to finish, to finish the round. Like, that's just, that's the kind of thing where it can slip.

41
00:07:37.552 --> 00:07:48.772
And so, but other than that, there's not too much that, I mean, in terms of individual shots where it's like, "Hey, this could've gone the other way." The biggest thing was just not looking at the leaderboard.

42
00:07:49.552 --> 00:08:01.772
I mean, I, I can think about, about seven or eight putts that I easily could have made. Like, I, I, I was hitting the ball so well the last day. And I mean, I think about the putt on the last hole.

43
00:08:02.232 --> 00:08:13.692
I had probably a seven or eight footer at, yeah, somewhere right there, kind of a downhill. I thought it was gonna snap, and it just, it didn't snap. I hit it a fraction too hard.

44
00:08:15.192 --> 00:08:25.392
But I was thinking about the 65 the whole time, trying to... I mean, at that point, I was trying to tie. And someone did. Was it, was it Chris that shot 65 the last day and, and then- Yeah...

45
00:08:25.421 --> 00:08:32.252
so yeah, so tied the course record. Anyway, that's what I was, that's what I was trying to do. And, uh, I was in pretty good position.

46
00:08:32.732 --> 00:08:46.472
I mean, I shot, I think I shot five under the front nine the second day, or four under, four under on the last day. And so I needed three under on the back. But anyway, it was, that's, that's what stood out.

47
00:08:48.141 --> 00:08:57.132
Are, are you always... The, the leaderboard stuff, do you always avoid the leaderboard, or is this just a choice you made this week of just, "I'm gonna go not worry about it and play golf"?

48
00:08:58.332 --> 00:09:02.232
Try not to, but it's h- it's really hard. It's easier in- Yeah...

49
00:09:02.272 --> 00:09:10.032
easier in the Mass Open when, I mean, if you're playing a Korn Ferry or a tour event, then there are just leaderboards staring you in the face all the time.

50
00:09:10.141 --> 00:09:19.392
And even when I'm trying not to do it, like, you'll just by accident, you'll see it, and then you can see all the numbers. And so it's hard not to.

51
00:09:19.432 --> 00:09:33.022
And it's one thing to glance at it and then just immediately move on, but that's, that's hard too. So, but there's definitely something real to not having numbers and cut line and like, "Oh, I'm..."

52
00:09:34.092 --> 00:09:41.312
It would've made it, for sure would've made it harder if I was, if I saw that Chris had shot 65, 'cause he was, I think, a few groups ahead of me.

53
00:09:41.932 --> 00:09:53.772
Like, those last few holes, if I know someone is in the clubhouse at nine under, if I knew that, uh, if I knew Ryan was, like, nipping at my heels, which I kinda didn't think he was, then,

54
00:09:55.632 --> 00:09:59.412
yeah, then that would've made it harder for sure. I mean, it's just like you're worrying about external things.

55
00:09:59.492 --> 00:10:11.172
And, and you realize, I mean, in hindsight, it's easy, it's easy to realize, wow, like, of course I play better, and of course everything is easier if you're just focused on what you're doing right in front of you.

56
00:10:11.352 --> 00:10:22.172
And, and I, I mean, I did have a result kind of goal in mind, which, that course record, but that's, I think that's a soft enough goal, like a soft enough

57
00:10:23.312 --> 00:10:32.752
result where it's like, hey, like, yeah, I wanna shoot the course record, but it's not, like, I don't really care. Really, that's just like, "Hey, I just need to keep going.

58
00:10:32.812 --> 00:10:40.972
I need to keep going, keep trying to make birdies." And then, but that allows me to just, to stay focused on each shot.

59
00:10:41.212 --> 00:10:53.992
Alexis Florio was on a couple weeks ago, and she was saying in college, she shot, like, a 63, came in, figured she had won the tournament, and someone shot 60, and she was like, "I don't look at leaderboards, and if I had, what would a difference would it have made?

60
00:10:54.072 --> 00:11:00.152
I just played as well as I possibly could, and someone played better than me. I wasn't gonna go find three more shots out there." [laughs] Exactly.

61
00:11:00.192 --> 00:11:12.562
So it is a, it's an interesting dynamic where some people feel like they can maybe control the narrative a little bit and go make birdies, and some people are just like, "I'd rather not know and just play my game and maybe have a, a fun goal."

62
00:11:12.692 --> 00:11:22.402
I see that goal as a fun goal. Like, I'm gonna go see if I can just tie Ken Venturi or- Yeah... steal his record. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think if you're chasing, it's, it's

63
00:11:23.512 --> 00:11:32.092
potentially a good thing if you're chasing to say, "Hey, like, I actually need three or four birdies right now to win the tournament." I- if you're chasing a cut line,

64
00:11:33.412 --> 00:11:41.992
I mean, or if you're anywhere near a cut line, I, it's hard for me to imagine that that's a good thing to look at the leaderboard. I've done it so much, and I, like, I...

65
00:11:42.872 --> 00:11:55.132
I mean, I even right now am, like, tensing up thinking about how often I've seen, been on the cut line, seen where the cut line is, and, and I know how that's affected me. And it's, like, it's harder to make putts.

66
00:11:55.472 --> 00:12:03.732
It's harder to play free. When you make a birdie, then there's a, there's a sense of, like, relief, which is just not what you wanna feel.

67
00:12:04.032 --> 00:12:14.812
It's like, my relief, like, I'm inside the cut line now, or I have one shot to, I have a one-shot cushion now. I mean, that, that's not the mentality. Like, I can promise you that. It's, like,

68
00:12:16.072 --> 00:12:27.610
ideally, you want no, you want, like, there's no relief. There's no nothing. It's just like, uh, we're hitting the next shot. So anyway. I, I completely agree. That's a good segue That's a, that's a good seg-

69
00:12:28.660 --> 00:12:42.720
Yeah That's a good segue to, you won this tournament in 2013, and obviously 13 years have gone by and you've, you've spent a lot of time playing professional golf, trying to win, trying to make cuts, do all of that stuff.

70
00:12:42.780 --> 00:12:58.139
Could you just quickly maybe compare the 2013 win? It was in a playoff. You were 24 years old, a kind of fresh face. Now you're kind of [chuckles] a grizzled vet out on, out on the, on the circuit. What...

71
00:12:58.270 --> 00:13:01.880
Can you compare those two wins, what they k- maybe both mean to you?

72
00:13:02.060 --> 00:13:12.050
And maybe, are, are they, do they f- do they feel different as far as just the, the way you got the wins and where you are in your, in your life and your career? They... I don't know.

73
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:22.900
I mean, I, I just, I think about playing my buddy Chris Fitzpatrick, who's one of my best friends, in, in the playoff at Woodland in 2013. I mean, in, in some ways it was,

74
00:13:24.060 --> 00:13:34.000
it was similar 'cause, I mean, I'm, I'm buddies with Ryan. We're coming to... I mean, not that I really knew where we stood, but I mean, I'm friends with him as well, and it's just fun

75
00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:43.720
playing against guys that like, I mean, I hung out with Ryan, I hung out with Fitz afterwards, and that's really why, like, that's what, that's what it's all about.

76
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:57.000
It's fun just to, fun to play a tournament against those guys, but also, like, we're yucking it up after and hanging out. But, but yeah, I mean, it's completely different where I was just, just kinda getting started.

77
00:13:57.520 --> 00:14:06.440
Um, I'd just gotten back. I flew back for that one, 2013. I played my first Canadian tour event, or PGA Tour Canada at the time.

78
00:14:07.340 --> 00:14:18.710
I flew back kind of the day before that tournament and, and so it was, like, I, I, that was my first Canadian tour event, my first kind of major, like, major tour event, and, and then playing the Mass Open.

79
00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:33.140
You know, it was just, everything was fresh and new, and now, and now it's just there are other things. I mean, my, my kids, my family, my job, those, those things are just more important than, [chuckles] than this.

80
00:14:33.160 --> 00:14:44.560
And so it is just a completely different, it's a different feel. I wanna... Let's go, let's go back to, you talked about the Canadian tour. I mean, you've played, looking at your kind of resume, you've, you've,

81
00:14:45.560 --> 00:14:53.499
you've done the, the ladder climb, which is, I think, one of those things that people who follow pro golf, it, it is such a challenging thing to do.

82
00:14:53.580 --> 00:15:04.700
You, you've played, like, Latin America, [chuckles] Canadian tour, almost 100 starts on the Korn Ferry Tour, which is, like, f- you know, the, there's probably 20, 20, 30 events a year on Korn Ferry.

83
00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:15.240
Like, that's, that's a good long time of, of playing golf at that level. Can you just g- like, give people a sense of the, the challenge being on the road?

84
00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:23.720
I, y- I, I mean, Korn Ferry's down in, like, South America at the beginning of the year. There's a lot of travel. You're probably with you and your, maybe your caddie.

85
00:15:23.780 --> 00:15:36.920
Just a sense of, like, what that life is, is like and what you loved about it, what you maybe missed, miss about it a little bit. Yeah. I mean, you got to, you gotta love it, I mean, for one.

86
00:15:37.140 --> 00:15:45.680
Um, you have to love the travel aspect of it because it'll just eat you up if it's, if that's a, if that's a grind, if that part's starts to grind, then, then you're in trouble.

87
00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:57.760
I mean, it's, it's one thing if you're one of these, like, Miles Russell type, type players that is, like, you immediately, like, go onto the tour because you're the best player in the country or something.

88
00:15:57.920 --> 00:16:08.040
And, and people have a tendency to, I, I think, have a tendency to, to zero in on, like, Luke Clinton or Miles Russell or Thorbjorn Olesen. Thorbjorn Olesen.

89
00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:22.210
But I mean, that, that doesn't, I mean, for the, the other thousand guys or 10,000 guys, um, that are, that are trying to do it, yeah, you gotta, you gotta work your way up. And, and so... But I, so the, I mean, what,

90
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:34.180
what just came up for me, I, so I got Brad Faxon's email when I first started playing, and I emailed him and said, "Hey, like, do you have any advice? I'm, I'm just getting going." And, um, and he said, "Yeah."

91
00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:43.360
He goes, "Pack your bags, go leave home, and go leave home for three months and see if you like it." And at this point, it was probably August of the first summer that I was playing.

92
00:16:43.410 --> 00:16:52.000
And so I emailed back and I was like, "Oh, perfect. That's what I've done the last three months and I love it." [chuckles] So, so yeah, that, I mean...

93
00:16:52.480 --> 00:17:03.740
But that's, now that's the advice that I give to anyone else, 'cause it, it really is, it's the best advice about, like, if you're trying to play pro golf, um, it's like you just gotta go, go leave, and you just go play tournaments constantly.

94
00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:11.660
And, like, there's not gonna be, like, the c- there're not gonna be the comforts of home, playing Monday qualifiers and mini tours and whatever.

95
00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:17.100
And, and if you, if, if you kinda need the comforts of home, then, then pro golf's not for you.

96
00:17:18.080 --> 00:17:33.699
But I will say, I mean, once I had kids, then it, it all changed, where w- it stopped, like, that part about it stopped being, stopped being fun, um, 'cause I had to, I had to leave them, and then they're just feeling guilty, and that made it hard.

97
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:47.720
But, but I mean, traveling South America was the best. So much fun down there. I mean, it's just amazing places, different cultures, the food. The golf was incredible, um, all the players down there.

98
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:59.660
So I mean, it's, it's kind of a, like a brotherhood almost with the fact that you're all playing on the Latin American tour or the c- or the, even the Korn Ferry Tour a little bit.

99
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:10.360
I think it, it is becoming less so this way, but, but certainly C- Canada, Latin America, all the mini tours, like, it's a, a pretty, like, it's a pretty small community.

100
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:16.120
Everyone kinda knows each other, and people really are pulling for each other in, like, in some way.

101
00:18:16.300 --> 00:18:31.568
Everyone's, everyone's trying to play well, but for themselves, but you're, you're hap- everyone's, like, happy for each other when they play well. And so that's really cool. And I, yeah, I mean- It's...

102
00:18:31.608 --> 00:18:44.268
I'd say the part that I love the most about going to all these new places is just the, it's like, it's just exciting when you kind of go pull into a new course in, like, Quito, Ecuador. And, and it's like they're...

103
00:18:45.068 --> 00:18:51.508
I mean, I'm thinking about Quito, 'cause it's just, like, a, it's a cool entrance to the club. It's like a grand clubhouse.

104
00:18:52.288 --> 00:19:05.988
You're also, you're at, I don't know what it is, 9, 10,000 feet, and so you can get there and you start hitting the ball 350. I mean, 'cause the ball just doesn't stop. And yeah, so, so that part's cool.

105
00:19:06.088 --> 00:19:15.008
And, and just, like, and yeah, I mean, the people down there are awesome. Like, the people down there are s- like, so nice. It's...

106
00:19:15.068 --> 00:19:23.448
That's, that's probably the thing that you, that I think about the most, just thinking of the food and the people. It's a different, it's a different scene. It's just, it's so different.

107
00:19:23.488 --> 00:19:35.988
And, and every week is different from one another. I mean, the, these places that we'd stay, the, like, courses in Honduras and Costa Rica and Panama, it's like such cool golf courses.

108
00:19:36.028 --> 00:19:47.428
And, and then you go to the beach, and then, and then you're, then you're just seeing a s- thousand times different scene in Argentina and Chile. I mean, it's... I was very lucky to, I mean, travel the world.

109
00:19:47.608 --> 00:20:01.828
Is there a golf course that stands out from... You mentioned Quito, but is, is there one, like, course that you really loved playing down there? I think Córdoba, Argentina. It's the course that Ángel grew up caddying on.

110
00:20:02.048 --> 00:20:12.808
Córdoba, it's also where Jorge Fernández Valdés... I don't know if he played that course growing up, but that's where he's from. Jorge's a stud. He's... I mean, I always say that he's got the prettiest swing in golf.

111
00:20:12.818 --> 00:20:24.028
He played, he played on tour, I think, right... I don't even know what he's playing right now. But anyway, Jorge's from Córdoba. Ángel Cabrera is from Córdoba. And this course, this course is so cool.

112
00:20:24.088 --> 00:20:39.528
I mean, it's kind of rolling hills. It's absolute, like, bowling alleys for fairways and tree lines. And, and you, you have to hit... It forces you to hit all shots. Like, you'd have to hit high, low, draw it, cut it.

113
00:20:40.127 --> 00:20:44.068
Like, there are these holes where you just, you pretty much have no choice. And, um,

114
00:20:45.088 --> 00:20:53.608
and if you can't hit those shots, then it's like you're not playing the hole the way that, like, you gotta do something, like, completely different that's gonna put you behind the eight ball. Tiny little greens.

115
00:20:54.078 --> 00:20:55.288
I mean, those are, like, the...

116
00:20:55.328 --> 00:21:05.568
Those are the kind of courses that I like to play, where it's, it's like the, it's the opposite of what you would think of kind of a new, modern course, which is, like, no rough, wide open fairways, huge greens.

117
00:21:05.608 --> 00:21:19.948
I mean, this is, like, tiny little really cool shaped greens. You, you have to, you have to work the ball, and you have to hit the ball straight. And it's just a really cool, cool property, a cool little club.

118
00:21:20.008 --> 00:21:29.178
And, and Córdoba itself is, I mean, is really cool. Like, the best, best steaks I've ever had, hands down, are in Córdoba. And that's, that's what... That place stands out.

119
00:21:30.248 --> 00:21:41.947
I mean, we, we played the Jockey Club in Argentina. I mean, Argentina has probably the strongest golf culture down there. Colombia as well. I mean, there are some real... We played a couple amazing courses in Colombia.

120
00:21:42.808 --> 00:21:57.328
But, but I would say... And then Los Leones in Santiago, Chile, is another old school club that, that is a similar kind of deal, where it's, it's a small little course. It has a bunch of really cool holes.

121
00:21:57.908 --> 00:22:10.388
Like, the 10th hole at Los Leones is this... It's a drivable par. It's 300 yard par 4. Slight dogleg left to an elevated green. And it's one of those ones where it's like, sweet, like I'll...

122
00:22:10.428 --> 00:22:19.848
I mean, nowadays, like, longer hitters can probably three-wood up there. But, like, there's just trouble everywhere. Like, you're dead if you go anywhere long or, like, left.

123
00:22:19.968 --> 00:22:24.308
And if you're, if you go right or short, you got a really tough little chip up the hill.

124
00:22:24.898 --> 00:22:34.968
And just holes like that, that really make you think, where like, yeah, you can make birdie, but you can, you can make bogey or double in a, in a heartbeat. And, and it's, it's 300 yards.

125
00:22:35.068 --> 00:22:42.208
So I, I like that too, 'cause anyone can kinda... Like, anyone can go play that hole. So yeah, those are, that's what comes to mind.

126
00:22:44.248 --> 00:22:54.008
Last thing, 'cause I know, I know you've, you're, you got a, a little bit of a heart out. You mentioned practicing. You've had a very interesting spring. You played [laughs] in the Myrtle Beach Classic.

127
00:22:54.108 --> 00:23:02.068
I ran into you at Berkshire Hills, trying to qualify for US Open at local. You win the Mass Open. You mentioned practicing.

128
00:23:02.688 --> 00:23:16.598
Like, what is your [laughs] what is, what is life like right now for Evan Harmeling, as you're balancing kids, family, you're back up here, uh, but obviously still, like, itching to compete, and, and, like, that part of your life is still, is still going?

129
00:23:16.748 --> 00:23:26.668
I, like, I could not imagine going to a PGA Tour event and feeling like I haven't... I know you maybe haven't had the time to practice like you would like to. So what's that been like this, uh, this spring?

130
00:23:27.688 --> 00:23:39.568
Yeah, I mean, so I, I haven't been practicing like I like to, but I, I've been working with this, with this guy, Sean Hester, at, through the winter at, at the Vanguard, Vanguard Golf Club in Dedham.

131
00:23:39.608 --> 00:23:52.008
It's this new indoor place. And Sean, Sean and I really worked on my driver. And I haven't been practicing like I'd like to, but I have been doing a ton of work on my driver. Like, I do... Now I do mirror work at night.

132
00:23:52.148 --> 00:23:59.448
And not a crazy amount, but for 10 minutes at night, like, I'll, I'll feel, I'll just look in the mirror and feel and see where I need to be.

133
00:24:00.148 --> 00:24:10.508
And, and that's actually, that helped a lot, and actually got me hitting the driver. I mean, that was a huge reason why... I mean, I was just hammering driver out at Oyster Harbors. Huge reason why I won.

134
00:24:11.098 --> 00:24:21.008
And I h- I really haven't been hitting the driver that well for a long time. It's just been kinda piecing it together to keep it in play. And, and so Sean's helped me a ton.

135
00:24:21.088 --> 00:24:35.508
And, and able to do, like, a decent amount of putting indoors as well. So I've been, I've been actually trying to get better in, in real ways. Not maintaining my game probably as well as I, I could, but

136
00:24:36.416 --> 00:24:45.916
But really getting, I mean, getting better at hitting the driver, which is, uh, which is not a quick process either, which is kinda why I haven't done it on tour.

137
00:24:45.956 --> 00:24:58.356
Like, I can't just make these changes and, uh, and just expect to go out and play some, some big tournament. Like, I, I need to do this for, for months before I felt like... Well, before I was able to go do it.

138
00:24:58.456 --> 00:25:07.876
Uh, so, so that's been great. But no, I'm, uh... Now my, my life's looking like corporate outings for, for my job and, and an occasional round with some friends. But,

139
00:25:08.996 --> 00:25:16.936
but no, it's, it's not, not a ton of, uh, I mean, not a ton of golf, and I actually don't have any real- any tournaments on the horizon right now.

140
00:25:17.016 --> 00:25:24.656
But the plan is to keep getting better, keep getting better with, with like the time that I have to put into it and, and then we'll see what happens.

141
00:25:26.056 --> 00:25:40.076
It's amazing how, like, maybe the constriction of time makes you, like you said, focus on, all right, what are, like, very specific things that I want to spend the time I have to work versus, like with anything, oh, I've got all the time in the world, or I've got all day, or I could practice for hours.

142
00:25:40.275 --> 00:25:49.376
And sometimes you just end up practicing and not, like, maybe picking a thing to really practice, um, and you're just almost checking boxes. I noticed- Yeah...

143
00:25:49.416 --> 00:26:00.336
I noticed when you were putting in some Mass, uh, golf videos, your l- left hand, you're a left-hand low putter, but your f- hand, your, you've got like your fingers off the grip a little bit.

144
00:26:00.596 --> 00:26:11.996
My s- my thumbs are off the putter, yeah. I mean, that's, uh, it's something I, I, I saw, like, my guy for putting this, this winter. And I actually went there with a different guy.

145
00:26:12.376 --> 00:26:21.856
He worked with the other guy for about two hours, watched me hit three putts. I mean, he's seen me putt a bunch. But he, he was just like, he's like, "Just take your thumbs off the putter. That'll fix it."

146
00:26:22.416 --> 00:26:29.276
And, and then, and then I've actually, like, I've, I've actually d- messed around with doing this in the past, and it's weird.

147
00:26:29.376 --> 00:26:38.856
So my stroke, normally, like I take it back, and then I reroute it inside and then come straight through and hit it off the toe. That's how I've putted my entire life.

148
00:26:38.996 --> 00:26:51.076
And, and then I, I hit it off the toe, and then I recoil. Like, my, my putting stroke hasn't been that great. Uh, I've kinda managed it. But I mean, if you just like technically, it's not that, it's not very good.

149
00:26:51.096 --> 00:27:01.496
Like, you, number one, you wanna hit it in the center of the face. But it's just crazy. I take my thumbs off the putter, and, like, it forces me to drive the stroke kinda with my body.

150
00:27:02.296 --> 00:27:13.176
And, and also, I don't know why, but it, like, it smooths out the tempo of my stroke. I, I take it back and bring it through on the same arc, and I also can stick my finish.

151
00:27:13.256 --> 00:27:24.796
Like, it, it just fixes a bunch of different things. And that actually did take kind of a few months to get used to, especially with speed. But my speed got way better as well.

152
00:27:25.365 --> 00:27:37.525
When, when my thumb's kinda like, it allows your hands to take over on, in the putting stroke, which I mean, some people, I'm not, I'm not necessarily saying people should do that. But- Sure...

153
00:27:37.576 --> 00:27:49.096
but I mean, for me, it just like, it really solved a bunch of issues in my putting stroke. And, uh, and after, after I got used to that, then I've been putting so much better. So

154
00:27:50.016 --> 00:27:58.916
yeah, I mean, the other thing, the other thing that was interesting is like I've, it became much clearer to me what I needed out of my caddie, which was n- I mean, nothing golf related.

155
00:27:59.576 --> 00:28:13.036
It's all just, like [chuckles] it's all just mentally keeping me, like, keeping me engaged in the right way and j- I mean, having fun, for one. But focusing on, focusing on non-golf stuff in between shots.

156
00:28:14.296 --> 00:28:25.396
Like, I have a tendency to just start overthinking things in between shots, and it really, like, it really hurts the whole situation. It, I mean, yeah.

157
00:28:25.916 --> 00:28:36.276
So I mean, I, I've had a couple caddies lately, I mean, in that Myrtle Beach tournament and then here in the Mass Open, where these guys... I mean, I actually just saw Chris dropping off our kids at school.

158
00:28:36.956 --> 00:28:49.296
He caddied for me in the Mass Open, and I mean, he's probably, I mean, he's not a good 18 handicap. [laughs] I'd say he's more like a, I shouldn't talk smack about him, but he's probably like a 25 handicap.

159
00:28:50.076 --> 00:28:56.835
But I mean, I told him, and I'm just like, "Hey, like, I don't, I don't need you, like, I don't need you talking through shots with me."

160
00:28:57.416 --> 00:29:02.676
What I do need is to him to make sure that I tell him what I'm gonna hit on every shot.

161
00:29:03.036 --> 00:29:16.176
If I verbalize, like, "I am going to, like, start it at this tree, draw it into the flag," like, if I say it out loud and visualize it, I mean, there's a certain element of visualization if, if I say it, then I'm visualizing it.

162
00:29:16.796 --> 00:29:27.116
Like, that's huge. And, and so doing that, I, I mean, I wasn't perfect with it but probably did it on 95% of the shots, and that's, that's massive to...

163
00:29:27.146 --> 00:29:36.416
As opposed to just, like, if you don't say anything, if you don't, like, make it clear what shot you're gonna hit, yeah, maybe I have a clear picture in my mind.

164
00:29:37.196 --> 00:29:49.556
But there are so many shots where if you're just keeping it all inside all the time, there are gonna be some number of shots where you actually don't have a clear picture or there is some indecision as you're walking up to the ball.

165
00:29:50.236 --> 00:29:58.656
And, and at, at that point, you're done. So I'm over it, and I'm like, "Actually, you know what? I'm gonna hit a cut." Like, I, I was just thinking about a straight ball or, or whatever.

166
00:29:59.006 --> 00:30:08.996
[laughs] But no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit a cut, and I'm, like, changing my stance as I'm over the ball, and that... But if you're, if you're clear on what, if I'm clear on what I'm doing, then...

167
00:30:09.856 --> 00:30:21.296
And then, and then also, like, after the shot's done, then I can just talk to him about whatever, about our kids or about school or about his job or... Like, that, that helps to just keep it light. And so,

168
00:30:22.296 --> 00:30:32.256
but it also is hard for me to, like, when I'm on tour and I'm playing all the time, that's, that's really hard for me to justify, like, having a caddie that doesn't know anything about golf.

169
00:30:33.396 --> 00:30:40.616
Like, I, that, even though I kind of knew at the time, I'm like, "Actually, I just need, I need someone that I act- I wanna hang out with."

170
00:30:40.776 --> 00:30:52.664
And even if, even if they have no golf IQ, that doesn't matter That's harder to make that decision if I'm like a tour pro. But if it's just whatever, it's like, "No, this is the best thing for me.

171
00:30:52.744 --> 00:31:01.204
I'm just gonna do that." Then- That's interesting... so that's, yeah. So that's, yeah. That's that. G- good stuff. I'm glad I asked about the thumbs.

172
00:31:01.324 --> 00:31:06.344
John Hill told me also to, to watch the videos, and he's like, "He's, he's got his thumbs off." Yeah.

173
00:31:06.424 --> 00:31:15.784
So- I mean, anything you can do, I mean, as a general rule of thumb with putting, anything you can do to drive- No pun intended. [laughs] Um,

174
00:31:16.704 --> 00:31:22.864
anything you can do to drive the stroke with something other than your hands is a good thing. I mean, if you're...

175
00:31:22.904 --> 00:31:31.764
Yeah, I mean, there, there are some guys that just have great hands, and they're just, they're feeling everything with their hands and... But that happens, that's way less so than...

176
00:31:31.804 --> 00:31:34.244
I mean, there are a lot of people that think they have great hands.

177
00:31:34.364 --> 00:31:44.024
And I mean, and they, yeah, they might make a few putts, and they might actually just jack one 15 feet by because, because they're just whipping their hands at the putter.

178
00:31:44.154 --> 00:31:54.484
And, and they feel like they have great hands, and they can make some putts, which is awesome. You're just not gonna consistently be as good as if you're, as if you're doing it with your body. And I mean, yeah.

179
00:31:54.604 --> 00:32:07.564
Um, taking your hands out of it is, is a good idea. Unless you're, unless you're, like, amongst the very best. And so that's... And I'm, I'm, like, in terms of my hands, I'm, I'm really not.

180
00:32:07.624 --> 00:32:17.484
Like, I'm not amongst the best of... Just, like, I have incredible feel in my hands for, um, in my... So I've, I've needed to do it with my body. So, so yeah.

181
00:32:17.644 --> 00:32:28.244
Well, now everyone, everyone at the corporate outings is gonna watch you, and they're, you're just gonna have a, we're gonna have hundreds of thousands of players putting with, uh, with their thumbs off the grip in the, the rest of the summer.

182
00:32:28.994 --> 00:32:40.554
[laughs] I, I doubt it. Well, Evan, thank you. Thanks a lot for your time. I know, I know I asked you for 30 minutes, and you've, you've given me more, so I appreciate it. And, um- No, this is fun...

183
00:32:40.664 --> 00:32:50.594
I'll have to have you, have you on back, back on again at some point and, and talk about golf courses or whatever else, whatever else pops up. I'd like that. I'm gonna...

184
00:32:50.614 --> 00:33:01.764
I'll check in after I play, play Patriots in, in Bedford. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe go play together. It'd be fun. Let's do that. Awesome. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

185
00:33:02.283 --> 00:33:26.394
[upbeat music]